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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 11:45 a.m. Tuesday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest in a string of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-wildfires\">California wildfires\u003c/a> has spread rapidly in Calaveras County, burning more than 5,400 acres, forcing highway closures and evacuations, and destroying three structures halfway between Stockton and Yosemite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2024/6/17/aero-fire\">Aero Fire\u003c/a> started around 3:20 p.m. Monday near the Sierra Nevada foothills town of Copperopolis, and it was quickly driven south by strong winds throughout the evening, according to Stacey Nolan, a spokesperson for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rapid spread forced the evacuation of all of Copperopolis, which is home to about 3,400 people. Parts of Highway 4, which connects Copperopolis to Stockton in the westbound direction, were closed while fire crews worked to contain the blaze.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fire was 20% contained as of Tuesday morning, and mild wind conditions projected for much of the day should help fire crews make further progress, Nolan said. Cal Fire does not expect any additional evacuations on Tuesday, but all current evacuation orders and the highway closures will remain in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=science_1993411 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2024/06/SonomaCountyPointFire01-1020x678.jpg']“It’s not going to be as windy as it was yesterday, so that will help the firefighters gain access to more of — if there are any — the little fires. They won’t be rushing through the grasses,” Nolan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wind gusts on Monday reached speeds up to 26 mph, according to the National Weather Service. Tuesday’s winds are expected to peak around 7 mph in the evening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The cause of the mixed vegetation fire is still under investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The blaze brings the number of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11834132/see-where-wildfires-are-burning-in-california\">active fires burning throughout California\u003c/a> to 14, according to Cal Fire, as gusty winds in recent days pushed flames through heavy grass and brush that grew during back-to-back wet winters. It has burned grass, brush and oak woodlands, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1993411/sonoma-county-point-fire-foreshadows-a-busy-summer-to-come-climate-expert-says\">similar to the Point Fire\u003c/a> in Sonoma County, which started Sunday and has burned over 1,200 acres.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That fire led to some smoke in the Bay Area, but it has mostly diminished, National Weather Service meteorologist Alexis Clouser said. Smoke from another wildfire that broke out Monday afternoon, the 10,000-acre Sites Fire in Colusa County, is expected to drift into the Bay Area on Tuesday, but Clouser said it remains aloft and isn’t seriously affecting surface visibility or air quality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Later this afternoon, as the winds shift to become more onshore and more westerly, we should start to see some of that smoke clear out. So the skies should look a little bit clearer overall into the afternoon and evening,” Clouser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The smoke spurred an advisory from the Bay Area Air Quality Management District through Wednesday, warning that air quality in the North Bay could reach unhealthy levels for sensitive groups, with hazy skies and the smell of smoke possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Sara Hossaini contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fire was 20% contained as of Tuesday morning, and mild wind conditions projected for much of the day should help fire crews make further progress, Nolan said. Cal Fire does not expect any additional evacuations on Tuesday, but all current evacuation orders and the highway closures will remain in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It’s not going to be as windy as it was yesterday, so that will help the firefighters gain access to more of — if there are any — the little fires. They won’t be rushing through the grasses,” Nolan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wind gusts on Monday reached speeds up to 26 mph, according to the National Weather Service. Tuesday’s winds are expected to peak around 7 mph in the evening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The cause of the mixed vegetation fire is still under investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The blaze brings the number of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11834132/see-where-wildfires-are-burning-in-california\">active fires burning throughout California\u003c/a> to 14, according to Cal Fire, as gusty winds in recent days pushed flames through heavy grass and brush that grew during back-to-back wet winters. It has burned grass, brush and oak woodlands, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1993411/sonoma-county-point-fire-foreshadows-a-busy-summer-to-come-climate-expert-says\">similar to the Point Fire\u003c/a> in Sonoma County, which started Sunday and has burned over 1,200 acres.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That fire led to some smoke in the Bay Area, but it has mostly diminished, National Weather Service meteorologist Alexis Clouser said. Smoke from another wildfire that broke out Monday afternoon, the 10,000-acre Sites Fire in Colusa County, is expected to drift into the Bay Area on Tuesday, but Clouser said it remains aloft and isn’t seriously affecting surface visibility or air quality.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Later this afternoon, as the winds shift to become more onshore and more westerly, we should start to see some of that smoke clear out. So the skies should look a little bit clearer overall into the afternoon and evening,” Clouser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The smoke spurred an advisory from the Bay Area Air Quality Management District through Wednesday, warning that air quality in the North Bay could reach unhealthy levels for sensitive groups, with hazy skies and the smell of smoke possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Sara Hossaini contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "BONUS: Right to Know | S2: New Folsom",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act,” about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4741087741\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learn more about Sen. Skinner’s work on law enforcement transparency, including The Right to Know Act (SB 1421) and SB 16, by visiting her \u003ca href=\"https://sd09.senate.ca.gov/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">webpage\u003c/a>. The \u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California Reporting Project\u003c/a>, a coalition of newsrooms, provides insights into how these open-records acts are being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode briefly references violence, sexual assault, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone, Sukey here. I’ve got a conversation with a very special guest to share with you in this bonus episode of On Our Watch. Those internal affairs recordings that you heard in this podcast, both in Season One and in Season Two, never would have been made public without California State Senator \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nancy Skinner\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She authored a landmark police transparency bill — Senate Bill 1421 — which was signed into law in 2018 as the Right to Know Act. This law finally broke through decades of secrecy in the state, and she further expanded it a few years later with SB 16. Skinner is serving her final term in the legislature this year and joined me to talk about her legacy, the ongoing barriers to transparency, and I was able to share with her some of what we found out about use of force at New Folsom and the crisis among correctional staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for joining me, Senator. As the architect of this law, which has done so much for law enforcement transparency in California, I wanted to bring you on the podcast to reflect on what’s changed in the past five years. You know, where you still see the need for improvement in terms of transparency. But before we get into all that, can you also just give us a little insight into how the law came to be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Certainly, and thank you for doing the podcast and for focusing on this very important issue. Back in the 70s, California passed a law that blocked public access to any and all records related to police conduct. And if you compare that to California’s Public Records Act, where you can pretty much request or receive any info you might want about a city or county employee, whether they’re a librarian or a street sweeper, you can find out anything. It doesn’t even have to be misconduct. But not police. They were the one category of, say, city or county employees, just as an example, where you could get no information. So California had almost a 50 year block and a total secrecy on police records, which made us arguably the least transparent state in the US of A. Which is odd when you consider, you know, what we pride ourselves about. And there were numerous previous attempts by other legislators. And when those efforts came around, when I was in the Assembly, I voted yes on each one of them, but none of them made it. I can tell you a little bit more about then why my staff and I in 2018 decided to act. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, tell me about that. Like what made the conditions kind of ripe for it to to finally go through in 2018? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were a number of well publicized law enforcement incidents, whether it’s Rodney King or other things, Oscar Grant, the shooting at the BART platform on a New Year’s Eve, you know, where the public was like, “Hey, what happened? What went on? And were these people investigated and or did the police act justifiably, you know, what were the conditions?” But we couldn’t find out. So, you know, there’s always been some high profile incidents, but there just seemed to be much more public attention to a number of high profile incidents in 2018, in that time period, where there was an openness for some access to police records. So those were some of the things that then made my staff and I sit down and think, “Okay, if we’re going to attempt this, given that every attempt prior has failed, how are we going to frame it?” And we thought, “All right, we’re going to focus on three specific areas. If an officer kills someone or causes great bodily injury or used a gun on someone, that those are things that of course the public feels like, ‘Hey, I want to know what happened there.’ If there was sexual assault by an officer on a member of the public, or if an officer is engaged in falsifying records or dishonesty, tampering of evidence, that kind of thing.” So we thought, “Those three who could, who could in a justifiably or with their head held up high, argue that those things should not be made publicly available.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The law, The Right to Know Act, went into effect, actually before the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and the massive protests, which was really interesting just as a reporter, to be equipped when that happened to begin to respond to questions here in California about police departments, we finally were able to get some answers and to get some transparency. In the last season of this podcast, we were able to find out new details about the killing of Oscar Grant that were really impactful for the family. And also, I think really important and understanding that like seminal incident for you, you know, what’s the most gratifying impact that you’ve seen from the law that you’re the most proud of? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk the Oscar Grant situation. The Fruitvale Bart station is in my district. Oscar Grant was my constituent. I know now his mother very well. His uncle, Uncle Bobby, various other family members. And, when that incident occurred, BART itself did not have good police review. And so that was one of the big issues that people felt like, “Wow, BART doesn’t even have an independent review board of their police. And of course, we can’t get records on this incident.” And of course, the family, I mean, they were kept in the dark until there were the lawsuits. I mean, sure, there were charges taken against the officer who killed Oscar Grant. That officer was Johannes Mehserle. But the only information they got was that which was revealed in court. They had no other information, and it was just horrible to watch that. So I was very, very happy when 1421 passed. That immediately of course, Oscar Grant’s family requested those records. It took a while for BART to release them, but they did finally get them, and it brought a lot of closure for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now let’s go to: how does public safety work? How do we achieve public safety? It’s not just having police in our communities. It’s that the police have the cooperation and respect from community members. So from my point of view, if we know that our police departments and our law enforcement agencies take misconduct seriously and that they hold officers accountable for misconduct, then we’re going to trust them more. And when we get the records, it lets us know, “Hey, you know, it was officer X accused of anything? And if so, what steps did our police department take in investigating officer X? And then, what consequences were there?” That’s why having access to these records is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And where is the conversation around law enforcement transparency now? Like what have you heard from your constituents? What are the conversations you have with other lawmakers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, we’ve discussed already that 1421, the first attempt that was successful in over 40 years was modest. And then we did SB 16, because we saw, you know, whether it was George Floyd or other incidents — we just saw that look, racial bias is a legitimate thing for the public to know. Are there a set of officers in a particular department that have, you know, umpteen numbers of complaints around racial bias that have been investigated and upheld? And then some of the other things that SB 16 did was look at what other kinds of excessive use of force — so not just the gun. There are many other types of excessive force. Or the other thing we wanted to ensure, let’s say you’re an officer who, under 1421 that you had some falsifying of records, you had committed some dishonesty. And we you know, we want to find out about this. Well, you quit the force before the investigation is completed. So then it’s not on your personnel record and it’s not available to me. So then you go and get hired by another police agency. So basically, by not requiring that records follow the officer and that each agency who hires an officer requests explicitly whether there were, you know, such investigations on that officer — we allow bad apples to move around to different law enforcement agencies. So that was another really important improvement of SB 16. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But of course, there are probably other legitimate things that the public has the right to know that aren’t covered yet in 1421 or 16. And, you know, we can talk about some of that, I have ideas. Somebody in the future will have to do them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that we’ve seen, you know, in recent years, especially like since the passage of the Right to Know Act, are these memorandums that are being entered into between the employers- the employing agency and the unions, basically giving notice or agreeing to give notice to any officer who is named in their records before they’re released. And, you know, in some lights, like you can see how that makes sense, right? Like, oh, my name is going to go out to the public. I would like to know that as an individual. But I think my concern from a transparency perspective is that it also gives the ability then for the union lawyers to intervene and say, oh, this is actually not a discloseable record. And they get kind of a first shot at claiming that it’s non-discloseable before the public gets a chance to look at the underlying misconduct. And so I just wanted to know if you’ve heard anything about that or you know if you have any thoughts on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I’ve definitely heard some about it. And I’ll preface my next set of comments about it with, look, police officers have a very difficult job. I do not envy police officers. Every time they walk out of their door, meaning, you know, they leave home to go to work in uniform, they take their lives in their hands. I’m careful about the way I do legislation, such as both SB 1421 and SB 16, to legitimately give our officers some right to privacy. Their names should not be disclosed when it’s not appropriate. We don’t need them to be targets if they have not, you know, really engaged in serious misconduct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m very, very protective of that privacy. And I also respect their ability to have a collective bargaining unit, to be in a union. Now, on the other hand, it’s I don’t like MOU agreements that unnecessarily or unlawfully delay the release of records that the public have a right to know about. So it is a balance. We want to protect their privacy, but we do not want MOUs that are counter to good laws that we have passed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At my organization, KQED, you know, we’ve really made a push statewide to try and get as many of these internal records as possible to help the public, you know, gain access and understanding of these, you know, key public institutions — our local police departments, state law enforcement agencies. And most recently, my focus has really been on the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which is the largest employer of peace officers in the state and is also one of the most kind of, obscure, not obscure agencies, but opaque. Yeah, very, you know, hard, hard to see inside of it’s a closed world, literally. You know, with everything happens behind these walls. And, you know, one thing that we were able to find out by, you know, utilizing the public records law by utilizing the Right to Know Act, was the incredibly high number of these very serious use of force incidents at this one prison, California State Prison, Sacramento, which is also kind of colloquially known as New Folsom. And I was just wondering, like in your years kind of on the public Safety Committee and, you know, overseeing CDCR and other, via other committees, if this prison had come to your attention before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, first, this is exactly the proof of the validity and the need for bills like 1421 and SB 16 — to enable us to get that information about… If we have a particular prison that has far higher incidence, then we have to wonder, what is it about the culture at that prison that creates this kind of violence? Staff on incarcerated individual violence, which your request of the record seems to indicate. Because we, interestingly, even legislators, I can’t just go to a prison unannounced and visit it. No, there’s all kinds of rules that prohibit. And California now, you know, we already talked about we had the 40 year kind of, 50 year really blackout on these records. Well, we’ve had almost an equivalent number of years where we’ve denied media access to our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, this is where we are an outlier. Many, many states, Maine, Rhode Island, many others allow much more journalistic access to their prisons than California does. Which is why I’m carrying a bill this year, SB 254, which would restore limited access of news media to our California prisons, as well as access to our judicial branch and legislators to be able to, you know, go in and check out the conditions in our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I chair California’s Women’s Caucus, which is now 50 strong. We have 50 women in the legislature out of 120. So we’re really proud of that. But we’ve been focused on there’s two women’s state prisons. And just this year we have a situation where a D.A. in, I believe it’s Madera County, has charged one officer from our facility in Chowchilla — our women’s facility in Chowchilla — charged that officer with 90 counts of sexual assault against some 16 different incarcerated individuals. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the horrific part was that he did this sexual assault while these women were waiting to go before the parole board. So here you are. You’re prepping yourself. You know, this is the determination of whether you can go free or not. And this man is taking you into a room and assaulting you. I mean, it is beyond horrific. So the Women’s Caucus, we have gotten very involved in that. We did a trip to that prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So far, we don’t have a comprehensive set of things that we’re trying to enact to change the conditions, but we certainly have strengthened California’s Office of the Inspector General over our prisons, for the incarcerated individuals to get complaints of this sort of behavior to the inspector general rather than just to officials within the prison therein. Because, of course, when you’re in that kind of closed environment, you don’t know, is your complaint even going to be taken seriously? So those are some of the issues that having transparency, getting records, getting journalists into our prisons is going to help us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, also in my reporting, talked to quite a few incarcerated women who, you know, experienced things themselves and also just experienced the brokenness of the grievance system. I think one of the, you know, very concerning patterns that we found in our reporting was just how many similar grievances we found piling up against a particular officer. So it was very easy to identify somebody who was repeatedly using very serious use of force and injuring people. And people were filing grievances on this person, but there was no upholding of it. There was no discipline. And a lot of that goes down to kind of the credibility issue that the incarcerated people filing the grievances didn’t have credibility, and it wasn’t captured on camera. And I think for some of the sexual assault instances, it’s been the same where it’s like piled up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, the the officer I mentioned with the 80 counts against him, his name is Rod- Rodriguez. You know, he took the women in a room. He knew the camera was not there. There was no camera in the room that he took them. And, you know, that was definitely purposefully done. And it was over a number of years, the assaults. And it’s hard to imagine that no one else knew. So the other thing that we have to make sure is that whatever reforms we put in not only go after the perpetrator, but anyone who aids or abets or… Aids or abets the perpetrator or sees it and does nothing about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think that is going to be the key, which is also, I think, a really tough nut to crack, you know, which is the issue of the code of silence, the culture of fear inside CDCR. And that that is not just the people who are incarcerated, that’s staff as well. You know, medical staff that I’ve spoken to, psychiatric staff and also correctional officers, and they fear blowing the whistle. They fear coming forward. And they say if they do, you know, they fear that they will be, you know, labeled a rat by their fellow officers and mistreated by them. And then that administrators also, they’ll kind of blacklist them and put them off to the side. It will be very kind of subtle and hard to see retaliation, but that retaliation that they know will come or that they say they know will come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The terrible, terrible irony of this mistreatment — this, in some cases, brutal conditions — in our prison facilities against our incarcerated individuals. The damage is not just the incarcerated individual. Our corrections officers, they have high rates of suicide. They have their average life expectancy is they die before age 60. While they can retire with great retirement benefits at, I think, age 52 or so. They don’t even live past that. And so the level of stress when you’re in a setting like that, where either you are yourself engaged in this, you know, very inhumane conditions, inhumane treatment — or that you are, you know, going against your own moral self to observing it — it damages everyone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is why I think Governor Newsom has adopted this Norway model. And a number of US legislators have taken trips. And I was one of them, who we’ve gone and seen the prisons in Norway and what they do instead and how they treat it. They look at their prison system as, “Yes, the individual committed a heinous act, however likely that individual at some point is going to go back home, is going to live in our community. So how do we use the time that we have them in custody to best bring them to a circumstance where they can be productive and healthy and contribute to their community instead of hurting it?” So I was very, very happy to see Governor Newsom embrace that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You brought up, you know, officer suicide, which was, you know, a really recurrent theme and and problem that we found in our reporting as well. And I think one thing that really shocked me was just how many suicides there were. You know, we found through talking to the correctional officers union, the CCPOA and other word of mouth sources that 31 officers died over a four year period by suicide between 2020 and 2024. And that was just a pretty staggering number and also not a complete number. And so I went to CDCR and asked them for their numbers, and they said, “We don’t track this.” And the fact that they said they don’t track this problem, which I feel is like the highest level red flag indicator of a mental health crisis in their employee base, I think is very problematic. I don’t know if you can comment on that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they should track it, and I feel that CCPOA should also, because there’s often tension between the legislature and CCPOA, that’s the prison guards union. But I think if- the legislature in general, we don’t want unhealthy work conditions for anyone. And here this is one of our largest base of state workers. And the consequences of bad conditions on the job for them have great consequences, not only on them, as you’ve indicated with the suicides, but also just their, you know, their life expectancy rate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it also has bad consequences on the individuals who are in the prison. And while California hasn’t embraced completely Norway’s sense that, “Look, our role at prisons is not focused really on punishment, but it should be to prepare you to go home.” The reality is the majority of our people go home, too. In other words, the majority of people that we’re holding in a state prison eventually go home. So what good does it do if we send them home damaged? And what good does it do if the employees who are in charge of them in custody are also damaged? None of that is healthy. So it’s one thing I’ve done a lot is engaged with our CCPOA to, you know, really work with them together to kind of embrace, “Hey, we could do it differently and it could be much improved for you, the worker and for that individual who’s being held by us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I know I’ve taken up a lot of your time, and I just so appreciate it. And I wanted to know, is there anything else that I didn’t ask you about that you want to bring up today or talk about on the podcast? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I- this is my last year in the legislature, so I won’t get to, you know, add more police transparency, at least as a legislator for the moment. But I certainly, as chair of the Women’s Caucus, we have engaged more in these issues because I really hope that more of my colleagues that are going to continue in the legislature beyond me, will, will really embrace the importance of, that we have a good carceral system. And I know for some people that just putting those two words together is from their, their point of view, an oxymoron. But public safety is our objective. And having a inhumane system does not help public safety. And I think more of my women colleagues are understanding that. And we’re even- we’ve arranged a trip to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland for some women legislators in September to visit their women’s carceral facilities and to see how they’re doing it differently in those countries, to see what lessons learned we can bring home to California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for your time, Senator. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Thank you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about the Right to Know Act and other law enforcement transparency bills, we’ll include links in the episode description. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@kqed.org. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa, final mixing by Christopher Beale. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr.; Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News; and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">was made possible by the passage of a groundbreaking law enforcement sunshine bill in 2018. Today we talk to California State Senator Nancy Skinner, who co-authored the state’s “Right to Know Act,” about the legacy of her landmark bill, ongoing obstacles to transparency, and the need for accountability in California prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4741087741\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learn more about Sen. Skinner’s work on law enforcement transparency, including The Right to Know Act (SB 1421) and SB 16, by visiting her \u003ca href=\"https://sd09.senate.ca.gov/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">webpage\u003c/a>. The \u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California Reporting Project\u003c/a>, a coalition of newsrooms, provides insights into how these open-records acts are being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode briefly references violence, sexual assault, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey everyone, Sukey here. I’ve got a conversation with a very special guest to share with you in this bonus episode of On Our Watch. Those internal affairs recordings that you heard in this podcast, both in Season One and in Season Two, never would have been made public without California State Senator \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nancy Skinner\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She authored a landmark police transparency bill — Senate Bill 1421 — which was signed into law in 2018 as the Right to Know Act. This law finally broke through decades of secrecy in the state, and she further expanded it a few years later with SB 16. Skinner is serving her final term in the legislature this year and joined me to talk about her legacy, the ongoing barriers to transparency, and I was able to share with her some of what we found out about use of force at New Folsom and the crisis among correctional staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for joining me, Senator. As the architect of this law, which has done so much for law enforcement transparency in California, I wanted to bring you on the podcast to reflect on what’s changed in the past five years. You know, where you still see the need for improvement in terms of transparency. But before we get into all that, can you also just give us a little insight into how the law came to be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Certainly, and thank you for doing the podcast and for focusing on this very important issue. Back in the 70s, California passed a law that blocked public access to any and all records related to police conduct. And if you compare that to California’s Public Records Act, where you can pretty much request or receive any info you might want about a city or county employee, whether they’re a librarian or a street sweeper, you can find out anything. It doesn’t even have to be misconduct. But not police. They were the one category of, say, city or county employees, just as an example, where you could get no information. So California had almost a 50 year block and a total secrecy on police records, which made us arguably the least transparent state in the US of A. Which is odd when you consider, you know, what we pride ourselves about. And there were numerous previous attempts by other legislators. And when those efforts came around, when I was in the Assembly, I voted yes on each one of them, but none of them made it. I can tell you a little bit more about then why my staff and I in 2018 decided to act. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, tell me about that. Like what made the conditions kind of ripe for it to to finally go through in 2018? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There were a number of well publicized law enforcement incidents, whether it’s Rodney King or other things, Oscar Grant, the shooting at the BART platform on a New Year’s Eve, you know, where the public was like, “Hey, what happened? What went on? And were these people investigated and or did the police act justifiably, you know, what were the conditions?” But we couldn’t find out. So, you know, there’s always been some high profile incidents, but there just seemed to be much more public attention to a number of high profile incidents in 2018, in that time period, where there was an openness for some access to police records. So those were some of the things that then made my staff and I sit down and think, “Okay, if we’re going to attempt this, given that every attempt prior has failed, how are we going to frame it?” And we thought, “All right, we’re going to focus on three specific areas. If an officer kills someone or causes great bodily injury or used a gun on someone, that those are things that of course the public feels like, ‘Hey, I want to know what happened there.’ If there was sexual assault by an officer on a member of the public, or if an officer is engaged in falsifying records or dishonesty, tampering of evidence, that kind of thing.” So we thought, “Those three who could, who could in a justifiably or with their head held up high, argue that those things should not be made publicly available.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The law, The Right to Know Act, went into effect, actually before the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and the massive protests, which was really interesting just as a reporter, to be equipped when that happened to begin to respond to questions here in California about police departments, we finally were able to get some answers and to get some transparency. In the last season of this podcast, we were able to find out new details about the killing of Oscar Grant that were really impactful for the family. And also, I think really important and understanding that like seminal incident for you, you know, what’s the most gratifying impact that you’ve seen from the law that you’re the most proud of? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk the Oscar Grant situation. The Fruitvale Bart station is in my district. Oscar Grant was my constituent. I know now his mother very well. His uncle, Uncle Bobby, various other family members. And, when that incident occurred, BART itself did not have good police review. And so that was one of the big issues that people felt like, “Wow, BART doesn’t even have an independent review board of their police. And of course, we can’t get records on this incident.” And of course, the family, I mean, they were kept in the dark until there were the lawsuits. I mean, sure, there were charges taken against the officer who killed Oscar Grant. That officer was Johannes Mehserle. But the only information they got was that which was revealed in court. They had no other information, and it was just horrible to watch that. So I was very, very happy when 1421 passed. That immediately of course, Oscar Grant’s family requested those records. It took a while for BART to release them, but they did finally get them, and it brought a lot of closure for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now let’s go to: how does public safety work? How do we achieve public safety? It’s not just having police in our communities. It’s that the police have the cooperation and respect from community members. So from my point of view, if we know that our police departments and our law enforcement agencies take misconduct seriously and that they hold officers accountable for misconduct, then we’re going to trust them more. And when we get the records, it lets us know, “Hey, you know, it was officer X accused of anything? And if so, what steps did our police department take in investigating officer X? And then, what consequences were there?” That’s why having access to these records is important. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And where is the conversation around law enforcement transparency now? Like what have you heard from your constituents? What are the conversations you have with other lawmakers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, we’ve discussed already that 1421, the first attempt that was successful in over 40 years was modest. And then we did SB 16, because we saw, you know, whether it was George Floyd or other incidents — we just saw that look, racial bias is a legitimate thing for the public to know. Are there a set of officers in a particular department that have, you know, umpteen numbers of complaints around racial bias that have been investigated and upheld? And then some of the other things that SB 16 did was look at what other kinds of excessive use of force — so not just the gun. There are many other types of excessive force. Or the other thing we wanted to ensure, let’s say you’re an officer who, under 1421 that you had some falsifying of records, you had committed some dishonesty. And we you know, we want to find out about this. Well, you quit the force before the investigation is completed. So then it’s not on your personnel record and it’s not available to me. So then you go and get hired by another police agency. So basically, by not requiring that records follow the officer and that each agency who hires an officer requests explicitly whether there were, you know, such investigations on that officer — we allow bad apples to move around to different law enforcement agencies. So that was another really important improvement of SB 16. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But of course, there are probably other legitimate things that the public has the right to know that aren’t covered yet in 1421 or 16. And, you know, we can talk about some of that, I have ideas. Somebody in the future will have to do them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One thing that we’ve seen, you know, in recent years, especially like since the passage of the Right to Know Act, are these memorandums that are being entered into between the employers- the employing agency and the unions, basically giving notice or agreeing to give notice to any officer who is named in their records before they’re released. And, you know, in some lights, like you can see how that makes sense, right? Like, oh, my name is going to go out to the public. I would like to know that as an individual. But I think my concern from a transparency perspective is that it also gives the ability then for the union lawyers to intervene and say, oh, this is actually not a discloseable record. And they get kind of a first shot at claiming that it’s non-discloseable before the public gets a chance to look at the underlying misconduct. And so I just wanted to know if you’ve heard anything about that or you know if you have any thoughts on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well I’ve definitely heard some about it. And I’ll preface my next set of comments about it with, look, police officers have a very difficult job. I do not envy police officers. Every time they walk out of their door, meaning, you know, they leave home to go to work in uniform, they take their lives in their hands. I’m careful about the way I do legislation, such as both SB 1421 and SB 16, to legitimately give our officers some right to privacy. Their names should not be disclosed when it’s not appropriate. We don’t need them to be targets if they have not, you know, really engaged in serious misconduct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m very, very protective of that privacy. And I also respect their ability to have a collective bargaining unit, to be in a union. Now, on the other hand, it’s I don’t like MOU agreements that unnecessarily or unlawfully delay the release of records that the public have a right to know about. So it is a balance. We want to protect their privacy, but we do not want MOUs that are counter to good laws that we have passed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At my organization, KQED, you know, we’ve really made a push statewide to try and get as many of these internal records as possible to help the public, you know, gain access and understanding of these, you know, key public institutions — our local police departments, state law enforcement agencies. And most recently, my focus has really been on the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which is the largest employer of peace officers in the state and is also one of the most kind of, obscure, not obscure agencies, but opaque. Yeah, very, you know, hard, hard to see inside of it’s a closed world, literally. You know, with everything happens behind these walls. And, you know, one thing that we were able to find out by, you know, utilizing the public records law by utilizing the Right to Know Act, was the incredibly high number of these very serious use of force incidents at this one prison, California State Prison, Sacramento, which is also kind of colloquially known as New Folsom. And I was just wondering, like in your years kind of on the public Safety Committee and, you know, overseeing CDCR and other, via other committees, if this prison had come to your attention before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, first, this is exactly the proof of the validity and the need for bills like 1421 and SB 16 — to enable us to get that information about… If we have a particular prison that has far higher incidence, then we have to wonder, what is it about the culture at that prison that creates this kind of violence? Staff on incarcerated individual violence, which your request of the record seems to indicate. Because we, interestingly, even legislators, I can’t just go to a prison unannounced and visit it. No, there’s all kinds of rules that prohibit. And California now, you know, we already talked about we had the 40 year kind of, 50 year really blackout on these records. Well, we’ve had almost an equivalent number of years where we’ve denied media access to our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, this is where we are an outlier. Many, many states, Maine, Rhode Island, many others allow much more journalistic access to their prisons than California does. Which is why I’m carrying a bill this year, SB 254, which would restore limited access of news media to our California prisons, as well as access to our judicial branch and legislators to be able to, you know, go in and check out the conditions in our prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I chair California’s Women’s Caucus, which is now 50 strong. We have 50 women in the legislature out of 120. So we’re really proud of that. But we’ve been focused on there’s two women’s state prisons. And just this year we have a situation where a D.A. in, I believe it’s Madera County, has charged one officer from our facility in Chowchilla — our women’s facility in Chowchilla — charged that officer with 90 counts of sexual assault against some 16 different incarcerated individuals. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the horrific part was that he did this sexual assault while these women were waiting to go before the parole board. So here you are. You’re prepping yourself. You know, this is the determination of whether you can go free or not. And this man is taking you into a room and assaulting you. I mean, it is beyond horrific. So the Women’s Caucus, we have gotten very involved in that. We did a trip to that prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So far, we don’t have a comprehensive set of things that we’re trying to enact to change the conditions, but we certainly have strengthened California’s Office of the Inspector General over our prisons, for the incarcerated individuals to get complaints of this sort of behavior to the inspector general rather than just to officials within the prison therein. Because, of course, when you’re in that kind of closed environment, you don’t know, is your complaint even going to be taken seriously? So those are some of the issues that having transparency, getting records, getting journalists into our prisons is going to help us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, also in my reporting, talked to quite a few incarcerated women who, you know, experienced things themselves and also just experienced the brokenness of the grievance system. I think one of the, you know, very concerning patterns that we found in our reporting was just how many similar grievances we found piling up against a particular officer. So it was very easy to identify somebody who was repeatedly using very serious use of force and injuring people. And people were filing grievances on this person, but there was no upholding of it. There was no discipline. And a lot of that goes down to kind of the credibility issue that the incarcerated people filing the grievances didn’t have credibility, and it wasn’t captured on camera. And I think for some of the sexual assault instances, it’s been the same where it’s like piled up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, the the officer I mentioned with the 80 counts against him, his name is Rod- Rodriguez. You know, he took the women in a room. He knew the camera was not there. There was no camera in the room that he took them. And, you know, that was definitely purposefully done. And it was over a number of years, the assaults. And it’s hard to imagine that no one else knew. So the other thing that we have to make sure is that whatever reforms we put in not only go after the perpetrator, but anyone who aids or abets or… Aids or abets the perpetrator or sees it and does nothing about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think that is going to be the key, which is also, I think, a really tough nut to crack, you know, which is the issue of the code of silence, the culture of fear inside CDCR. And that that is not just the people who are incarcerated, that’s staff as well. You know, medical staff that I’ve spoken to, psychiatric staff and also correctional officers, and they fear blowing the whistle. They fear coming forward. And they say if they do, you know, they fear that they will be, you know, labeled a rat by their fellow officers and mistreated by them. And then that administrators also, they’ll kind of blacklist them and put them off to the side. It will be very kind of subtle and hard to see retaliation, but that retaliation that they know will come or that they say they know will come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The terrible, terrible irony of this mistreatment — this, in some cases, brutal conditions — in our prison facilities against our incarcerated individuals. The damage is not just the incarcerated individual. Our corrections officers, they have high rates of suicide. They have their average life expectancy is they die before age 60. While they can retire with great retirement benefits at, I think, age 52 or so. They don’t even live past that. And so the level of stress when you’re in a setting like that, where either you are yourself engaged in this, you know, very inhumane conditions, inhumane treatment — or that you are, you know, going against your own moral self to observing it — it damages everyone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is why I think Governor Newsom has adopted this Norway model. And a number of US legislators have taken trips. And I was one of them, who we’ve gone and seen the prisons in Norway and what they do instead and how they treat it. They look at their prison system as, “Yes, the individual committed a heinous act, however likely that individual at some point is going to go back home, is going to live in our community. So how do we use the time that we have them in custody to best bring them to a circumstance where they can be productive and healthy and contribute to their community instead of hurting it?” So I was very, very happy to see Governor Newsom embrace that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You brought up, you know, officer suicide, which was, you know, a really recurrent theme and and problem that we found in our reporting as well. And I think one thing that really shocked me was just how many suicides there were. You know, we found through talking to the correctional officers union, the CCPOA and other word of mouth sources that 31 officers died over a four year period by suicide between 2020 and 2024. And that was just a pretty staggering number and also not a complete number. And so I went to CDCR and asked them for their numbers, and they said, “We don’t track this.” And the fact that they said they don’t track this problem, which I feel is like the highest level red flag indicator of a mental health crisis in their employee base, I think is very problematic. I don’t know if you can comment on that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they should track it, and I feel that CCPOA should also, because there’s often tension between the legislature and CCPOA, that’s the prison guards union. But I think if- the legislature in general, we don’t want unhealthy work conditions for anyone. And here this is one of our largest base of state workers. And the consequences of bad conditions on the job for them have great consequences, not only on them, as you’ve indicated with the suicides, but also just their, you know, their life expectancy rate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it also has bad consequences on the individuals who are in the prison. And while California hasn’t embraced completely Norway’s sense that, “Look, our role at prisons is not focused really on punishment, but it should be to prepare you to go home.” The reality is the majority of our people go home, too. In other words, the majority of people that we’re holding in a state prison eventually go home. So what good does it do if we send them home damaged? And what good does it do if the employees who are in charge of them in custody are also damaged? None of that is healthy. So it’s one thing I’ve done a lot is engaged with our CCPOA to, you know, really work with them together to kind of embrace, “Hey, we could do it differently and it could be much improved for you, the worker and for that individual who’s being held by us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I know I’ve taken up a lot of your time, and I just so appreciate it. And I wanted to know, is there anything else that I didn’t ask you about that you want to bring up today or talk about on the podcast? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I- this is my last year in the legislature, so I won’t get to, you know, add more police transparency, at least as a legislator for the moment. But I certainly, as chair of the Women’s Caucus, we have engaged more in these issues because I really hope that more of my colleagues that are going to continue in the legislature beyond me, will, will really embrace the importance of, that we have a good carceral system. And I know for some people that just putting those two words together is from their, their point of view, an oxymoron. But public safety is our objective. And having a inhumane system does not help public safety. And I think more of my women colleagues are understanding that. And we’re even- we’ve arranged a trip to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland for some women legislators in September to visit their women’s carceral facilities and to see how they’re doing it differently in those countries, to see what lessons learned we can bring home to California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for your time, Senator. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nancy Skinner:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Thank you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about the Right to Know Act and other law enforcement transparency bills, we’ll include links in the episode description. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@kqed.org. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa, final mixing by Christopher Beale. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; our Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr.; Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News; and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "California's Democratic Leaders Clash With Businesses Over Curbing Retail Theft. Here's What to Know",
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"content": "\u003cp>With retail theft increasing, California Democratic leadership is clashing with a coalition of law enforcement and business groups in a fierce political fight over how to crack down on the problem. State lawmakers are trying to preserve progressive policies and stay away from putting more people behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two most likely paths under consideration this year are \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-crime-ballot-initiative-signatures-theft-fentanyl-e4863b0eb0b8808ea8f5746c60780ba7\">a ballot initiative\u003c/a> to create harsher penalties for repeat offenders, and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-legislation-5f045e9d346b570a69d395e949207f1f\">a legislative package\u003c/a> aimed at making it easier to go after professional crime rings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leaders behind the two efforts have accused one another of misleading voters and being unwilling to work toward a compromise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">How did we get here?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Both sides agree on the need to crack down, especially on \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-health-government-and-politics-california-coronavirus-pandemic-d0c6dc49ef4cd6d05f649a860bd72888\">large-scale thefts\u003c/a> in which groups of people brazenly rush into stores and take goods in plain sight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of the escalating political fight is Proposition 47, a progressive ballot measure passed by voters in 2014 that reduced certain theft and drug possession offenses \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299\">from felonies to misdemeanors\u003c/a> — in part to mitigate overcrowding in jails and prisons. That includes nonviolent property crimes such as thefts under $950.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has made it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-california-theft-8dec92007049f1fa41f9e280882bcef6\">harder to arrest and punish\u003c/a> people who shoplift, law enforcement said. Researchers told lawmakers there’s no evidence linking the proposition to \u003ca href=\"https://www.ppic.org/publication/the-impact-of-proposition-47-on-crime-and-recidivism/\">increased violent crime rates\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">How are the two solutions different?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A coalition of district attorneys and businesses, mostly funded by big box retailers, is pushing for an initiative to bring harsh penalties for shoplifting and drug offenses. It would make theft of any amount a felony if the person already has two theft convictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Possession of fentanyl would also become a felony, and those with multiple drug charges would be ordered to get treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ballot measure would still need to be certified by the Secretary of State before it could be placed on the ballot later this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s Democratic leadership, backed by Gov. Gavin Newsom, wants to keep the tough-on-crime measure \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-legislation-smash-grab-4472b135a8c811cffac2d35571a99cae\">off the November ballot\u003c/a>. They worry the ballot measure’s proposal would disproportionately criminalize low-income people and those with substance use issues rather than target ringleaders who \u003ca href=\"https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2024/02/16/san-diego-county-woman-charged-as-ringleader-of-retail-scheme-involving-millions-in-stolen-beauty-products/\">hire large groups of people to steal\u003c/a> goods for them to resell online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead, lawmakers are fast-tracking a legislative package of 14 bills that would \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-ecommerce-0b0a9724e054ef32f2000663082b957a\">go after organized online reseller schemes\u003c/a> and auto thieves, and provide funding for drug addiction counselors. These proposals could become laws as early as this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">Do the efforts conflict?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If voters approve the tough-on-crime ballot initiative, Democratic leaders plan to void most measures in their own legislative package, citing potential conflicts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers were short on details about how the two paths conflict earlier this week. Later, they said they fear if both efforts succeed, law enforcement would be able to stack penalties and send more people to jails, leading to mass incarceration and overcrowded jails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About a third of the measures in the package pose possible legal conflicts with the proposals in the ballot initiative, according to lawmakers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ballot initiative campaign accused lawmakers of holding the proposals hostage to break up the coalition. Local district attorneys who backed the ballot campaign said both efforts could work together, with the ballot measure overriding the legislative package in case of legal conflicts.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">What happens next?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Backers of the ballot initiative said they’re still open to working with Democratic leadership but will only consider any solutions that involve rolling back Proposition 47.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11982393,news_11982070,news_11979533\"]“We still stand ready to sit down with anybody in leadership to talk about the measure, but I don’t want to compromise,” Greg Totten, a retired district attorney and a leader of the ballot initiative campaign, said during a news conference this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom and Democratic leaders have until June 27 to negotiate to get the initiative off the ballot. Meanwhile, lawmakers have plans to deliver the legislative package to Newsom’s desk by next week for signing, despite \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/AlvaradoGilSD4/status/1800954802798723105\">growing concerns\u003c/a> from moderate Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you look at the package that we put together, it’s very comprehensive and it addresses a number of details in the existing framework of the law,” Assemblymember Rick Zbur, author of a retail theft bill, told reporters. “It was never intended to be something that was stacked on to a ballot measure that removed the underpinnings of the basic law that we were trying to reform.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>With retail theft increasing, California Democratic leadership is clashing with a coalition of law enforcement and business groups in a fierce political fight over how to crack down on the problem. State lawmakers are trying to preserve progressive policies and stay away from putting more people behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two most likely paths under consideration this year are \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-crime-ballot-initiative-signatures-theft-fentanyl-e4863b0eb0b8808ea8f5746c60780ba7\">a ballot initiative\u003c/a> to create harsher penalties for repeat offenders, and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-legislation-5f045e9d346b570a69d395e949207f1f\">a legislative package\u003c/a> aimed at making it easier to go after professional crime rings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leaders behind the two efforts have accused one another of misleading voters and being unwilling to work toward a compromise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">How did we get here?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Both sides agree on the need to crack down, especially on \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-health-government-and-politics-california-coronavirus-pandemic-d0c6dc49ef4cd6d05f649a860bd72888\">large-scale thefts\u003c/a> in which groups of people brazenly rush into stores and take goods in plain sight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of the escalating political fight is Proposition 47, a progressive ballot measure passed by voters in 2014 that reduced certain theft and drug possession offenses \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299\">from felonies to misdemeanors\u003c/a> — in part to mitigate overcrowding in jails and prisons. That includes nonviolent property crimes such as thefts under $950.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has made it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-california-theft-8dec92007049f1fa41f9e280882bcef6\">harder to arrest and punish\u003c/a> people who shoplift, law enforcement said. Researchers told lawmakers there’s no evidence linking the proposition to \u003ca href=\"https://www.ppic.org/publication/the-impact-of-proposition-47-on-crime-and-recidivism/\">increased violent crime rates\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">How are the two solutions different?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A coalition of district attorneys and businesses, mostly funded by big box retailers, is pushing for an initiative to bring harsh penalties for shoplifting and drug offenses. It would make theft of any amount a felony if the person already has two theft convictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Possession of fentanyl would also become a felony, and those with multiple drug charges would be ordered to get treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ballot measure would still need to be certified by the Secretary of State before it could be placed on the ballot later this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s Democratic leadership, backed by Gov. Gavin Newsom, wants to keep the tough-on-crime measure \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-legislation-smash-grab-4472b135a8c811cffac2d35571a99cae\">off the November ballot\u003c/a>. They worry the ballot measure’s proposal would disproportionately criminalize low-income people and those with substance use issues rather than target ringleaders who \u003ca href=\"https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2024/02/16/san-diego-county-woman-charged-as-ringleader-of-retail-scheme-involving-millions-in-stolen-beauty-products/\">hire large groups of people to steal\u003c/a> goods for them to resell online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead, lawmakers are fast-tracking a legislative package of 14 bills that would \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-retail-theft-ecommerce-0b0a9724e054ef32f2000663082b957a\">go after organized online reseller schemes\u003c/a> and auto thieves, and provide funding for drug addiction counselors. These proposals could become laws as early as this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">Do the efforts conflict?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If voters approve the tough-on-crime ballot initiative, Democratic leaders plan to void most measures in their own legislative package, citing potential conflicts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers were short on details about how the two paths conflict earlier this week. Later, they said they fear if both efforts succeed, law enforcement would be able to stack penalties and send more people to jails, leading to mass incarceration and overcrowded jails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About a third of the measures in the package pose possible legal conflicts with the proposals in the ballot initiative, according to lawmakers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ballot initiative campaign accused lawmakers of holding the proposals hostage to break up the coalition. Local district attorneys who backed the ballot campaign said both efforts could work together, with the ballot measure overriding the legislative package in case of legal conflicts.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"mb-0 pb-2 ap-font-bold\">What happens next?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Backers of the ballot initiative said they’re still open to working with Democratic leadership but will only consider any solutions that involve rolling back Proposition 47.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We still stand ready to sit down with anybody in leadership to talk about the measure, but I don’t want to compromise,” Greg Totten, a retired district attorney and a leader of the ballot initiative campaign, said during a news conference this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom and Democratic leaders have until June 27 to negotiate to get the initiative off the ballot. Meanwhile, lawmakers have plans to deliver the legislative package to Newsom’s desk by next week for signing, despite \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/AlvaradoGilSD4/status/1800954802798723105\">growing concerns\u003c/a> from moderate Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you look at the package that we put together, it’s very comprehensive and it addresses a number of details in the existing framework of the law,” Assemblymember Rick Zbur, author of a retail theft bill, told reporters. “It was never intended to be something that was stacked on to a ballot measure that removed the underpinnings of the basic law that we were trying to reform.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Activists and Amy’s Kitchen workers welcomed the end of a boycott of the Petaluma-based organic food company over labor violations and unsafe working conditions and expressed optimism about the path ahead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Boycott leaders from the food justice nonprofit Food Empowerment Project announced the end of the two-year boycott on Wednesday after Amy’s Kitchen agreed to better working conditions within its facilities, including improved worker safety and better wages and health insurance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>FEP founder Lauren Ornelas said Amy’s Kitchen reached out eight months ago to discuss ending the boycott. In those meetings, Amy’s Kitchen also agreed to a 3% merit-based raise for its employees, bilingual service representatives to aid with health care benefits, and a pledge not to work with labor consultants in the future — after \u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-01/amy-s-kitchen-faces-labor-complaints-at-its-san-jose-plant\">allegations\u003c/a> it was attempting to stop employees from unionizing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With the changes that the workers have seen, there is such optimism,” Ornelas said. “These are workers who love their job. They just want to be treated with respect and paid a living wage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The FEP started the boycott after multiple reports of workplace accidents dating back to 2014. Amy’s Kitchen presents itself as a socially responsible company, according to its website, which states that its principles are guided by “goodness.” However, the FEP saw Amy’s Kitchen’s actions as contradicting its public messaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months after the boycott began, the company was hit with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11921946/california-regulators-fine-amys-kitchen-25000-for-safety-violations\">$25,000 fine from California regulators\u003c/a> in August 2022 for more than a dozen safety violations at its Santa Rosa facility. The company also \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/08/01/amy-kitchen-plan-job-cuts-layoff-plant-closure-economy-san-jose-edd/\">closed\u003c/a> its San José plant, eliminating over 300 jobs. Plant employees from both locations were also in contact with union organizers the year before the violation fines and plant closure. The FEP alleges the labor consultant firm that Amy’s Kitchen hired has a reputation for “union busting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a company that promotes sustainability and yet the workers aren’t living sustainably themselves,” Ornelas said. “We had lots of individuals, lots of people, who bought Amy’s, supporting the boycott.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://foodispower.org/amys-kitchen-boycott-ends/\">statement\u003c/a> published on the FEP website on Wednesday, Amy’s Kitchen President Paul Schiefer said the meetings with the FEP showcased how the company can meet the needs of and improve communications with its food-line workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11921946,news_11915111\"]“We look forward to continuing this positive dialogue and making meaningful improvements for our workforce,” Schiefer said in the statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plant workers, such as Cecilia Luna Ojeda, welcome the changes promised by the company. She’s worked in the plant for nearly 20 years and said the income she receives has helped her raise her four children, including her oldest, who is leaving for college in the fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ojeda was also present at the meetings between company executives and the nonprofit. She said it was emotionally difficult when she recounted her experiences at the plant to the executives during the meetings. However, she believes it was necessary to end the boycott and receive better working conditions for the plants’ employees. Now that the boycott is over, Ojeda sees safety improvements implemented across the Santa Rosa facility and hopes work will ramp up so the company can hire more employees and offer raises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to defend our rights when we see injustices,” Ojeda said. “And there is always somebody who has to be at the forefront.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With the changes that the workers have seen, there is such optimism,” Ornelas said. “These are workers who love their job. They just want to be treated with respect and paid a living wage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The FEP started the boycott after multiple reports of workplace accidents dating back to 2014. Amy’s Kitchen presents itself as a socially responsible company, according to its website, which states that its principles are guided by “goodness.” However, the FEP saw Amy’s Kitchen’s actions as contradicting its public messaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months after the boycott began, the company was hit with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11921946/california-regulators-fine-amys-kitchen-25000-for-safety-violations\">$25,000 fine from California regulators\u003c/a> in August 2022 for more than a dozen safety violations at its Santa Rosa facility. The company also \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/08/01/amy-kitchen-plan-job-cuts-layoff-plant-closure-economy-san-jose-edd/\">closed\u003c/a> its San José plant, eliminating over 300 jobs. Plant employees from both locations were also in contact with union organizers the year before the violation fines and plant closure. The FEP alleges the labor consultant firm that Amy’s Kitchen hired has a reputation for “union busting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a company that promotes sustainability and yet the workers aren’t living sustainably themselves,” Ornelas said. “We had lots of individuals, lots of people, who bought Amy’s, supporting the boycott.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://foodispower.org/amys-kitchen-boycott-ends/\">statement\u003c/a> published on the FEP website on Wednesday, Amy’s Kitchen President Paul Schiefer said the meetings with the FEP showcased how the company can meet the needs of and improve communications with its food-line workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We look forward to continuing this positive dialogue and making meaningful improvements for our workforce,” Schiefer said in the statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plant workers, such as Cecilia Luna Ojeda, welcome the changes promised by the company. She’s worked in the plant for nearly 20 years and said the income she receives has helped her raise her four children, including her oldest, who is leaving for college in the fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ojeda was also present at the meetings between company executives and the nonprofit. She said it was emotionally difficult when she recounted her experiences at the plant to the executives during the meetings. However, she believes it was necessary to end the boycott and receive better working conditions for the plants’ employees. Now that the boycott is over, Ojeda sees safety improvements implemented across the Santa Rosa facility and hopes work will ramp up so the company can hire more employees and offer raises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to defend our rights when we see injustices,” Ojeda said. “And there is always somebody who has to be at the forefront.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "why-some-bay-area-counties-may-lose-millions-over-an-obscure-legal-fight-with-the-state",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Five Bay Area counties could lose a collective $180 million annually if lawmakers pass the governor’s current budget proposal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The money is at the center of an ongoing battle between the state and counties with some of the highest property taxes in the state. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">San Francisco, Marin, San Mateo, Napa and Santa Clara are the only five counties in California that generate more property taxes than their obligations to the Educational Revenue Augmentation Fund, which is used to meet funding mandates for public schools across the state. The leftovers are called “excess ERAF.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For years, the state Department of Finance has said those counties are miscalculating the amount they owe to the fund by omitting kids in charter schools from their daily attendance counts. The state uses those figures to determine how much money it allocates to school districts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The counties thought recent lawsuits had settled the issue in their favor. However, under the governor’s current budget, charter schools would be counted for ERAF funding, which would essentially remove the excess property tax revenue that the counties use in their general funds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“For more than 30 years, these revenues have been directed to fund K–12 schools, but charter schools have been recently left out of the equation,” H.D. Palmer, a spokesperson for the state Department of Finance, said. “This proposal would ensure that all local educational agencies receive these funds.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In February, Matthew Hymel, then-Marin County executive, wrote \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.marincounty.gov/departments/executive/budget-and-priority-setting/legislative-support-and-advocacy/legislative-3\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">a letter to state lawmakers\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> calling the move unconstitutional, saying it would cost the county $1.1 million per year, affecting some 65 governmental entities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“This is the latest in a series of attempts by the State Department of Finance (DOF) to take constitutionally protected funds from local governments for State use at the expense of local health and safety programs and services,” Hymel’s statement reads.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">More than $47 million is at stake in Santa Clara County, between the county and its cities. County Executive James Williams argues that the governor’s proposal goes against a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sca_4_cfa_20040729_111134_asm_floor.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2004 constitutional amendment\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> passed by voters that precludes state lawmakers from enacting new “ERAF shifts” to take property tax money away from local governments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“There should be no more grab of local government money, and that’s why we’re urging the legislature to reject this,” Williams said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Michelle Allersma, director of budget and analysis in the San Francisco Controller’s Office, said San Francisco alone risks losing $43 million a year, which it uses to pay for basic services. It began using excess ERAF in the 2016–17 budget year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“We’re still kind of pulling ourselves out of the kind of pandemic aftermath,” Allersma said. “We’re still working on building back our local economy, so $43 million is objectively just an incredibly large number for us to backfill.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Williams said the dispute goes back to 1988 when California voters passed \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/2005/prop_98_primer/prop_98_primer_020805.htm#:~:text=Generally%2C%20Proposition%2098%20provides%20K,and%20local%20property%20tax%20revenues.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 98\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, which guarantees funding for K–14 schools through a combination of money from the state’s general fund and local property taxes, creating ERAF. Property taxes fill those funding buckets first. If the counties don’t supply enough, the state’s general fund fills the rest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Bay Area counties at issue have five of the six highest property taxes per resident in the state. That means their share of the buckets gets filled, and the leftover flows back into the counties to fund other services, like public health and safety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“The specific change that they’re proposing is to add another bucket: charter schools,” Williams said. “Today, that bucket gets filled by the state general fund. Instead, the Department of Finance wants that bucket to get filled by ERAF.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Department of Finance previously tried to make that change through a directive from the state controller. That ended up with all interested parties in court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4193\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2020 report from the Legislative Analyst’s Office\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> said the five counties were calculating their ERAF “in ways that seem contrary to state law and shift too much property tax revenue from schools to other agencies” to the tune of roughly $170 million per year. They anticipated that the amount would rise every year as property taxes increase.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the time, the Department of Finance said ERAF funding calculations should include charter school daily attendance numbers. In response, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-revenue-and-taxation-code/division-1-property-taxation/part-05-implementation-of-article-xiiia-of-the-california-constitution/chapter-6-allocation-of-property-tax-revenue/article-3-revenue-allocation-shifts-for-education/section-972-modifications-for-certain-fiscal-years\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">state lawmakers compromised\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> with the five Bay Area counties, holding them harmless for past years so long as they followed guidance from the state controller. The Legislature passed the 2020–21 budget, assuming counties would meet the higher Proposition 98 guarantee by counting charter schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">However, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-ARD-Local/sco_eraf_guidance.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the controller’s guidance (PDF)\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, issued in February 2021, omitted charter schools from the definition of a school district in terms of ERAF funding “because they do not directly receive property tax revenue.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11986893,news_11981977,news_11985798\"]\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California School Boards Association (CSBA) objected, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publications.csba.org/reports/ela/2022-annual-report/school-funding-educational-revenue-augmentation-fund/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">arguing in a lawsuit\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> against the state controller that the guidance was unlawful, violating the California constitution’s minimum funding guarantee because charter schools should not be excluded from daily attendance-based funding or minimum property tax funding, with local funding being “passed through” a school district to the charter school. They estimated that nearly $1 billion was lost to excess ERAF at that time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Three of the five counties — Marin, San Francisco and Santa Clara — intervened in the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In June 2022, a judge found the controller’s guidance was within the law. The CSBA appealed, and local governments that use excess ERAF funding closely watched the case, with some even \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.milpitas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/3397/FY23-24-Proposed-Budget-20230425-FINAL\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">budgeting for legal bills in the case\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Last July, an \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://casetext.com/case/cal-sch-bds-assn-v-cohen\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">appellate court ruled\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> in the controller’s and counties’ favor, essentially putting the issue to rest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or so they thought, until the release of the governor’s current budget proposal.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“To explicitly address charter schools and their interaction with existing ERAF distribution statutes, the Budget proposes statutory changes to clarify that charter schools are eligible to receive ERAF,” \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ebudget.ca.gov/2024-25/pdf/BudgetSummary/FullBudgetSummary.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the budget states (PDF)\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While the governor’s budget proposes counting charter school kids, the legislative version of the budget doesn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Even if the governor’s proposal makes it into the final budget, counties would still have another year before the change takes effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“The worst case scenario is that they agree on it, and it goes into effect on July 1, 2025,” Allersma said. “If it goes into effect, it would be at least out one year.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">State lawmakers are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://dof.ca.gov/budget/californias-budget-process/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">required to vote\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> on the budget by June 15.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Five Bay Area counties could lose a collective $180 million annually if lawmakers pass the governor’s current budget proposal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The money is at the center of an ongoing battle between the state and counties with some of the highest property taxes in the state. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">San Francisco, Marin, San Mateo, Napa and Santa Clara are the only five counties in California that generate more property taxes than their obligations to the Educational Revenue Augmentation Fund, which is used to meet funding mandates for public schools across the state. The leftovers are called “excess ERAF.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For years, the state Department of Finance has said those counties are miscalculating the amount they owe to the fund by omitting kids in charter schools from their daily attendance counts. The state uses those figures to determine how much money it allocates to school districts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The counties thought recent lawsuits had settled the issue in their favor. However, under the governor’s current budget, charter schools would be counted for ERAF funding, which would essentially remove the excess property tax revenue that the counties use in their general funds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“For more than 30 years, these revenues have been directed to fund K–12 schools, but charter schools have been recently left out of the equation,” H.D. Palmer, a spokesperson for the state Department of Finance, said. “This proposal would ensure that all local educational agencies receive these funds.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In February, Matthew Hymel, then-Marin County executive, wrote \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.marincounty.gov/departments/executive/budget-and-priority-setting/legislative-support-and-advocacy/legislative-3\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">a letter to state lawmakers\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> calling the move unconstitutional, saying it would cost the county $1.1 million per year, affecting some 65 governmental entities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“This is the latest in a series of attempts by the State Department of Finance (DOF) to take constitutionally protected funds from local governments for State use at the expense of local health and safety programs and services,” Hymel’s statement reads.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">More than $47 million is at stake in Santa Clara County, between the county and its cities. County Executive James Williams argues that the governor’s proposal goes against a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sca_4_cfa_20040729_111134_asm_floor.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2004 constitutional amendment\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> passed by voters that precludes state lawmakers from enacting new “ERAF shifts” to take property tax money away from local governments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“There should be no more grab of local government money, and that’s why we’re urging the legislature to reject this,” Williams said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Michelle Allersma, director of budget and analysis in the San Francisco Controller’s Office, said San Francisco alone risks losing $43 million a year, which it uses to pay for basic services. It began using excess ERAF in the 2016–17 budget year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“We’re still kind of pulling ourselves out of the kind of pandemic aftermath,” Allersma said. “We’re still working on building back our local economy, so $43 million is objectively just an incredibly large number for us to backfill.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Williams said the dispute goes back to 1988 when California voters passed \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/2005/prop_98_primer/prop_98_primer_020805.htm#:~:text=Generally%2C%20Proposition%2098%20provides%20K,and%20local%20property%20tax%20revenues.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 98\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, which guarantees funding for K–14 schools through a combination of money from the state’s general fund and local property taxes, creating ERAF. Property taxes fill those funding buckets first. If the counties don’t supply enough, the state’s general fund fills the rest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Bay Area counties at issue have five of the six highest property taxes per resident in the state. That means their share of the buckets gets filled, and the leftover flows back into the counties to fund other services, like public health and safety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“The specific change that they’re proposing is to add another bucket: charter schools,” Williams said. “Today, that bucket gets filled by the state general fund. Instead, the Department of Finance wants that bucket to get filled by ERAF.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Department of Finance previously tried to make that change through a directive from the state controller. That ended up with all interested parties in court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4193\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2020 report from the Legislative Analyst’s Office\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> said the five counties were calculating their ERAF “in ways that seem contrary to state law and shift too much property tax revenue from schools to other agencies” to the tune of roughly $170 million per year. They anticipated that the amount would rise every year as property taxes increase.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the time, the Department of Finance said ERAF funding calculations should include charter school daily attendance numbers. In response, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-revenue-and-taxation-code/division-1-property-taxation/part-05-implementation-of-article-xiiia-of-the-california-constitution/chapter-6-allocation-of-property-tax-revenue/article-3-revenue-allocation-shifts-for-education/section-972-modifications-for-certain-fiscal-years\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">state lawmakers compromised\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> with the five Bay Area counties, holding them harmless for past years so long as they followed guidance from the state controller. The Legislature passed the 2020–21 budget, assuming counties would meet the higher Proposition 98 guarantee by counting charter schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">However, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-ARD-Local/sco_eraf_guidance.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the controller’s guidance (PDF)\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, issued in February 2021, omitted charter schools from the definition of a school district in terms of ERAF funding “because they do not directly receive property tax revenue.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California School Boards Association (CSBA) objected, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publications.csba.org/reports/ela/2022-annual-report/school-funding-educational-revenue-augmentation-fund/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">arguing in a lawsuit\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> against the state controller that the guidance was unlawful, violating the California constitution’s minimum funding guarantee because charter schools should not be excluded from daily attendance-based funding or minimum property tax funding, with local funding being “passed through” a school district to the charter school. They estimated that nearly $1 billion was lost to excess ERAF at that time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Three of the five counties — Marin, San Francisco and Santa Clara — intervened in the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In June 2022, a judge found the controller’s guidance was within the law. The CSBA appealed, and local governments that use excess ERAF funding closely watched the case, with some even \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.milpitas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/3397/FY23-24-Proposed-Budget-20230425-FINAL\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">budgeting for legal bills in the case\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Last July, an \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://casetext.com/case/cal-sch-bds-assn-v-cohen\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">appellate court ruled\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> in the controller’s and counties’ favor, essentially putting the issue to rest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or so they thought, until the release of the governor’s current budget proposal.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“To explicitly address charter schools and their interaction with existing ERAF distribution statutes, the Budget proposes statutory changes to clarify that charter schools are eligible to receive ERAF,” \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ebudget.ca.gov/2024-25/pdf/BudgetSummary/FullBudgetSummary.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the budget states (PDF)\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">While the governor’s budget proposes counting charter school kids, the legislative version of the budget doesn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Even if the governor’s proposal makes it into the final budget, counties would still have another year before the change takes effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">“The worst case scenario is that they agree on it, and it goes into effect on July 1, 2025,” Allersma said. “If it goes into effect, it would be at least out one year.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">State lawmakers are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://dof.ca.gov/budget/californias-budget-process/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">required to vote\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> on the budget by June 15.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "a-new-california-bill-would-regulate-police-use-of-facial-recognition-these-falsely-arrested-black-men-say-its-not-enough",
"title": "A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough",
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"headTitle": "A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It’s Not Enough | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>In 2019 and 2020, three Black men were accused of and jailed for crimes they didn’t commit after police used facial recognition to falsely identify them. Their wrongful arrest lawsuits are still pending, but their cases bring to light how AI-enabled tools can lead to civil rights violations and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/wrongful-arrests-ai-derailed-3-mens-lives/\">lasting consequences for the families of the accused\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, all three men are speaking out against pending California legislation making it illegal for police to use facial recognition technology as the sole reason for a search or arrest. Instead, it would require corroborating indicators. The problem, critics say, is that a possible face recognition “match” is not evidence — and that it can lead investigations astray even if police seek corroborating evidence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state Assembly last month passed \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab1814?slug=CA_202320240AB1814\">Assembly Bill 1814\u003c/a> with a 70–0 vote. On Tuesday, it faced a contentious hearing in the Senate Public Safety Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Such a bill “would not have stopped the police from falsely arresting me in front of my wife and daughters,” Robert Williams told CalMatters in a statement. In 2020, Detroit police accused Williams of stealing watches worth thousands of dollars — the first known instance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/technology/facial-recognition-arrest.html\">false arrest involving facial recognition\u003c/a> in the United States — after facial recognition technology matched a surveillance video to a photo of Williams in a state database. Investigators put his photo in a “six-pack lineup” with five others, from which a security guard, who had seen a surveillance image and \u003ca href=\"https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/06/26/facial-recognition-wrongful-arrest-detroit-police/3265943001/\">not the theft itself\u003c/a>, selected him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my case, as in others, the police did exactly what AB 1814 would require them to do, but it didn’t help,” said Williams, who is Black. “Once the facial recognition software told them I was the suspect, it poisoned the investigation. This technology is racially biased and unreliable and should be prohibited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He added, “I implore California lawmakers to not settle for half measures that won’t actually protect people like me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first facial recognition searches in the United States occurred over two decades ago. It’s a process that begins with a photo of a suspect, typically taken from security camera footage. Face recognition on your iPhone is trained to match your photo, but the kind used by law enforcement agencies searches databases of mug shots or driver’s license photos that can contain millions of photos and can fail in numerous ways. Tests by researchers have shown that the technology is less accurate when attempting to identify \u003ca href=\"http://gendershades.org/\">people with darker skin\u003c/a> and those who identify as \u003ca href=\"https://www.colorado.edu/today/2019/10/08/facial-recognition-software-has-gender-problem\">transgender\u003c/a>. Accuracy has also been shown to decrease when a probe image of a suspect is low quality or if the image in a database is outdated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"facial-recognition\"]After a computer assembles a list of possible matches from a database of images, police pick a suspect from an array of candidates, then show that photo to an eyewitness. Eyewitness testimony has proven to be a \u003ca href=\"https://innocenceproject.org/how-eyewitness-misidentification-can-send-innocent-people-to-prison/\">leading cause of wrongful convictions in the United States\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because investigators may use facial recognition to identify possible suspects but ultimately rely on eyewitness testimony, the technology can play a role in a criminal investigation without the accused and defense attorneys knowing about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Directives not to treat a possible match by a facial recognition system as the sole basis for an arrest sometimes don’t make a difference. They failed to do so, for instance, in the case of Alonzo Sawyer, a man who was falsely arrested near Baltimore and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/\">spent nine days in jail\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Njeer Parks, who spent nearly a year fighting allegations that he stole items from a hotel gift shop in New Jersey and then nearly hit a police officer with a stolen vehicle, came out in opposition to the California bill in a video \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/C71ybeKJcQQ/\">posted on Instagram\u003c/a> last week. The police “are not going to do their job if the AI is saying ‘It’s him’ already. That’s what happened to me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got lucky,” he told CalMatters in a phone interview, noting that a store a receipt he saved had exonerated him and kept him out of prison. “I don’t want to see anybody sitting in jail for something they didn’t do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The attorney for Michael Oliver, a Black man who was wrongly accused of assaulting a high school teacher in Detroit in 2020, is scheduled to testify at Tuesday’s legislative hearing in Sacramento, the American Civil Liberties Union said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the bill include the California Faculty Association and the League of California Cities. The California Police Chiefs Association argues that facial recognition can reduce criminal activity and provide police with actionable leads and that such technology will be important as California looks to host international events such as the 2026 World Cup and the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Across the country, real-world examples of law enforcement using [facial recognition technology] to solve major crimes showcases just how important this new technology can be towards protecting our communities,” the association has argued. It cited cases in which it says facial recognition played a role in identifying the guilty, including a newspaper headquarters \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-used-facial-recognition-software-to-identify-suspect-in-newspaper-shooting/2018/06/29/6dc9d212-7bba-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html\">shooting in Maryland\u003c/a> and a rape in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Facial recognition alone should never lead to false arrests, Jake Parker with the Security Industry Association told members of the California Assembly a few weeks ago. That’s why AB 1814 is meant to corroborate investigative leads with evidence, not just a possible facial recognition match.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a clear need to bolster public trust that this technology is being leveraged accurately, lawfully, and in an effective way that’s also limited and non-discriminatory in a way that benefits our communities,” he said. “So we believe AB 1814 will help bolster this trust, and for that reason, we urge you to support this bill in its current form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, more than 50 advocacy organizations — including the ACLU, Access Reproductive Justice and the Electronic Frontier Foundation — \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/AB%201814%20coalition%20letter%206.4.2024.pdf\">signed a letter last week opposing the bill\u003c/a>. They called facial recognition software unreliable, a proven threat to Black men, and a potential threat to protesters, people seeking abortions, and immigrant and LGBTQ communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By allowing police to scan and identify people without limitation, AB 1814 will also increase unnecessary police interactions that too often have the potential to escalate into fatal encounters. This will remain true regardless of how accurate face recognition technology becomes,” the organizations said in a letter. “There is no way for people to find out if facial recognition is used against them and no mechanism to make sure the police comply with the law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The author of the bill, San Francisco Democratic Assemblymember Phil Ting, also authored a 2019 bill that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2019/09/facial-recognition-technology-california-law-police-opposition-legislature/\">initially placed a permanent ban on police use\u003c/a> of body camera footage with facial recognition. That was amended to a temporary ban, which ended in January 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting told CalMatters he’s uncomfortable with the fact that California currently has no limits on how law enforcement agencies use the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said in a statement that his bill “simply requires officers to have additional evidence before they can proceed with a search, arrest, or affidavit for a warrant. I believe having a precautionary step can help protect people’s privacy and due process rights while still allowing local governments to go further and pursue their own facial recognition bans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting’s city of San Francisco became the first major city in the nation to ban face recognition in 2019. However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/facial-recognition-law-enforcement-austin-san-francisco/\">\u003cem>The Washington Post\u003c/em> last month\u003c/a> reported that San Francisco police have, on multiple occasions, gone around restrictions by requesting that law enforcement in neighboring cities conduct the searches for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin, who was recalled by voters in 2022, says there have almost certainly been false arrests associated with the use of facial recognition in California, but they would remain unknown to the public unless prosecutors filed charges and the accused later went to trial with a civil lawsuit seeking damages. Often, \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-role-facial-recognition-tech-arrests/\">such cases would be settled out of court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We absolutely need a legislative, regulatory framework for these technologies, but I don’t think AB 1814 is adequate in terms of protecting civil liberties or providing meaningful guardrails or safeguards for the use of these new and powerful technologies,” said Boudin, who now directs UC Berkeley’s Criminal Law & Justice Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The staff of the Senate Public Safety committee staff has \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB1814\">suggested\u003c/a> amending the bill to state that judges should not grant warrant applications by law enforcement agencies based solely on a possible match by face recognition technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers have until the end of the legislative session in August to decide whether to pass AB 1814.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "Three men who were falsely arrested out of state based on facial-recognition technology say a new California bill that aims to place guardrails around how police use the technology would fail to prevent misguided arrests.",
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"title": "A New California Bill Would Regulate Police Use of Facial Recognition. These Falsely Arrested Black Men Say It's Not Enough | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In 2019 and 2020, three Black men were accused of and jailed for crimes they didn’t commit after police used facial recognition to falsely identify them. Their wrongful arrest lawsuits are still pending, but their cases bring to light how AI-enabled tools can lead to civil rights violations and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/wrongful-arrests-ai-derailed-3-mens-lives/\">lasting consequences for the families of the accused\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, all three men are speaking out against pending California legislation making it illegal for police to use facial recognition technology as the sole reason for a search or arrest. Instead, it would require corroborating indicators. The problem, critics say, is that a possible face recognition “match” is not evidence — and that it can lead investigations astray even if police seek corroborating evidence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state Assembly last month passed \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab1814?slug=CA_202320240AB1814\">Assembly Bill 1814\u003c/a> with a 70–0 vote. On Tuesday, it faced a contentious hearing in the Senate Public Safety Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Such a bill “would not have stopped the police from falsely arresting me in front of my wife and daughters,” Robert Williams told CalMatters in a statement. In 2020, Detroit police accused Williams of stealing watches worth thousands of dollars — the first known instance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/technology/facial-recognition-arrest.html\">false arrest involving facial recognition\u003c/a> in the United States — after facial recognition technology matched a surveillance video to a photo of Williams in a state database. Investigators put his photo in a “six-pack lineup” with five others, from which a security guard, who had seen a surveillance image and \u003ca href=\"https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/06/26/facial-recognition-wrongful-arrest-detroit-police/3265943001/\">not the theft itself\u003c/a>, selected him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In my case, as in others, the police did exactly what AB 1814 would require them to do, but it didn’t help,” said Williams, who is Black. “Once the facial recognition software told them I was the suspect, it poisoned the investigation. This technology is racially biased and unreliable and should be prohibited.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He added, “I implore California lawmakers to not settle for half measures that won’t actually protect people like me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first facial recognition searches in the United States occurred over two decades ago. It’s a process that begins with a photo of a suspect, typically taken from security camera footage. Face recognition on your iPhone is trained to match your photo, but the kind used by law enforcement agencies searches databases of mug shots or driver’s license photos that can contain millions of photos and can fail in numerous ways. Tests by researchers have shown that the technology is less accurate when attempting to identify \u003ca href=\"http://gendershades.org/\">people with darker skin\u003c/a> and those who identify as \u003ca href=\"https://www.colorado.edu/today/2019/10/08/facial-recognition-software-has-gender-problem\">transgender\u003c/a>. Accuracy has also been shown to decrease when a probe image of a suspect is low quality or if the image in a database is outdated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>After a computer assembles a list of possible matches from a database of images, police pick a suspect from an array of candidates, then show that photo to an eyewitness. Eyewitness testimony has proven to be a \u003ca href=\"https://innocenceproject.org/how-eyewitness-misidentification-can-send-innocent-people-to-prison/\">leading cause of wrongful convictions in the United States\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because investigators may use facial recognition to identify possible suspects but ultimately rely on eyewitness testimony, the technology can play a role in a criminal investigation without the accused and defense attorneys knowing about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Directives not to treat a possible match by a facial recognition system as the sole basis for an arrest sometimes don’t make a difference. They failed to do so, for instance, in the case of Alonzo Sawyer, a man who was falsely arrested near Baltimore and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/\">spent nine days in jail\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Njeer Parks, who spent nearly a year fighting allegations that he stole items from a hotel gift shop in New Jersey and then nearly hit a police officer with a stolen vehicle, came out in opposition to the California bill in a video \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/C71ybeKJcQQ/\">posted on Instagram\u003c/a> last week. The police “are not going to do their job if the AI is saying ‘It’s him’ already. That’s what happened to me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got lucky,” he told CalMatters in a phone interview, noting that a store a receipt he saved had exonerated him and kept him out of prison. “I don’t want to see anybody sitting in jail for something they didn’t do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The attorney for Michael Oliver, a Black man who was wrongly accused of assaulting a high school teacher in Detroit in 2020, is scheduled to testify at Tuesday’s legislative hearing in Sacramento, the American Civil Liberties Union said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the bill include the California Faculty Association and the League of California Cities. The California Police Chiefs Association argues that facial recognition can reduce criminal activity and provide police with actionable leads and that such technology will be important as California looks to host international events such as the 2026 World Cup and the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Across the country, real-world examples of law enforcement using [facial recognition technology] to solve major crimes showcases just how important this new technology can be towards protecting our communities,” the association has argued. It cited cases in which it says facial recognition played a role in identifying the guilty, including a newspaper headquarters \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-used-facial-recognition-software-to-identify-suspect-in-newspaper-shooting/2018/06/29/6dc9d212-7bba-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html\">shooting in Maryland\u003c/a> and a rape in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Facial recognition alone should never lead to false arrests, Jake Parker with the Security Industry Association told members of the California Assembly a few weeks ago. That’s why AB 1814 is meant to corroborate investigative leads with evidence, not just a possible facial recognition match.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a clear need to bolster public trust that this technology is being leveraged accurately, lawfully, and in an effective way that’s also limited and non-discriminatory in a way that benefits our communities,” he said. “So we believe AB 1814 will help bolster this trust, and for that reason, we urge you to support this bill in its current form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, more than 50 advocacy organizations — including the ACLU, Access Reproductive Justice and the Electronic Frontier Foundation — \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/AB%201814%20coalition%20letter%206.4.2024.pdf\">signed a letter last week opposing the bill\u003c/a>. They called facial recognition software unreliable, a proven threat to Black men, and a potential threat to protesters, people seeking abortions, and immigrant and LGBTQ communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By allowing police to scan and identify people without limitation, AB 1814 will also increase unnecessary police interactions that too often have the potential to escalate into fatal encounters. This will remain true regardless of how accurate face recognition technology becomes,” the organizations said in a letter. “There is no way for people to find out if facial recognition is used against them and no mechanism to make sure the police comply with the law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The author of the bill, San Francisco Democratic Assemblymember Phil Ting, also authored a 2019 bill that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2019/09/facial-recognition-technology-california-law-police-opposition-legislature/\">initially placed a permanent ban on police use\u003c/a> of body camera footage with facial recognition. That was amended to a temporary ban, which ended in January 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting told CalMatters he’s uncomfortable with the fact that California currently has no limits on how law enforcement agencies use the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said in a statement that his bill “simply requires officers to have additional evidence before they can proceed with a search, arrest, or affidavit for a warrant. I believe having a precautionary step can help protect people’s privacy and due process rights while still allowing local governments to go further and pursue their own facial recognition bans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting’s city of San Francisco became the first major city in the nation to ban face recognition in 2019. However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/05/18/facial-recognition-law-enforcement-austin-san-francisco/\">\u003cem>The Washington Post\u003c/em> last month\u003c/a> reported that San Francisco police have, on multiple occasions, gone around restrictions by requesting that law enforcement in neighboring cities conduct the searches for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin, who was recalled by voters in 2022, says there have almost certainly been false arrests associated with the use of facial recognition in California, but they would remain unknown to the public unless prosecutors filed charges and the accused later went to trial with a civil lawsuit seeking damages. Often, \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-role-facial-recognition-tech-arrests/\">such cases would be settled out of court\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We absolutely need a legislative, regulatory framework for these technologies, but I don’t think AB 1814 is adequate in terms of protecting civil liberties or providing meaningful guardrails or safeguards for the use of these new and powerful technologies,” said Boudin, who now directs UC Berkeley’s Criminal Law & Justice Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The staff of the Senate Public Safety committee staff has \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB1814\">suggested\u003c/a> amending the bill to state that judges should not grant warrant applications by law enforcement agencies based solely on a possible match by face recognition technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers have until the end of the legislative session in August to decide whether to pass AB 1814.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Ever since Hawaiian princes first brought surfing to Santa Cruz in 1885, the city has been on the cutting edge of a lot of surfing technology. It’s where surfers first began using wetsuits in the 1950s and a decade later, where builders first used CNC machines to automatically shape surfboards. Now, a new local company is contributing to that history of innovation while also making the sport more environmentally friendly: It’s using a 3D printer to craft surfboards out of recycled hospital trays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a Santa Cruz garage, a huge homemade metal machine lays a clear plastic filament down, row by row. This 3D printer uses a digital file to create a three-dimensional object. Over the next couple of days, the rows will form a surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was the first board that kind of sparked the drive for everything else,” said Patricio Guerrero, pulling a finished board out of a rack next to the printer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The surfboard is hollow and translucent, with a diamond-shaped lattice pattern running through it. It almost looks like frosted glass, but it’s not much heavier than a normal surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Beginnings\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Guerrero started printing surfboards in his garage in the fall of 2022 and tested the first one at Steamer Lane, one of the most famous surf spots in Santa Cruz. People have been surfing there since the 1930s, and Steamer Lane has seen plenty of homemade boards. But this was the first made from a 3D printer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was super nervous,” Guerrero recalled. “Man, maybe I’ll just jump in the water, and the whole thing will just break right under me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the board worked, and Guerrero ended up surfing for two hours. From there, he started printing more surfboards. He began using recycled materials and founded a startup, which he called \u003ca href=\"https://swellcyclesurfboards.com/\">Swellcycle\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989359\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2381px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989359\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2381\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998.jpg 2381w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-800x645.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1020x823.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-160x129.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1536x1239.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-2048x1651.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1920x1548.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2381px) 100vw, 2381px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Patricio Guerrero holds an early version of a Swellcycle 3D printed board in his garage in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A wasteful industry\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Surfboards are an estimated $13 billion global industry. It’s hard to say exactly how many boards are made each year. They’re made by big manufacturers but also by hobbyists in their garages. The best estimate is somewhere in the tens of millions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The majority of those millions of boards are not environmentally friendly. Most surfboards start as a plastic foam block — called a blank — with a thin piece of wood running down the middle. They’re then sanded down to a desired shape and covered in fiberglass and plastic resin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The foam cores in most surfboards can’t easily be recycled, and they don’t biodegrade. Old or broken surfboards usually end up in landfills, where they crumble into smaller and smaller pieces that can pollute water and soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But 3D-printed boards don’t need foam. They’re mostly hollow, and they can be made from recycled plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can basically melt it down and create a filament that then you feed into your printer,” Guerrero said. For Swellcycle, he started ordering filament made from recycled hospital trays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Guerrero recruited a business partner to design the boards and started sending them to local surfboard shapers for the final fiberglassing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Santa Cruz surfboard shaper Vince Broglio was the first to work with one of Guerrero’s boards. Throughout his nearly 40-year career, he has mostly worked with typical foam boards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’ll have two different types of blanks, ones of polyurethane and ones EPS, expandable foam,” he said. “Hand-shaping a blank that will take me about two hours.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broglio’s shaping room is a two-room shack with an ocean view. The walls are lined with photos of waves, and shelves are packed with materials like fiberglass, carbon fiber and plastic resins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one room, Broglio uses a planar to shape a foam blank, which he then sands by hand. The other room is for putting fiberglass and resin coatings on boards. It smells strongly of plastic resin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989436\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1710px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989436\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1710\" height=\"1237\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555.jpg 1710w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-800x579.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-1020x738.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-160x116.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-1536x1111.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1710px) 100vw, 1710px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A nearly finished foam surfboard is ready for fiberglassing and the final resin coating in Vince Broglio’s shaping room in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“When you’re laminating a board or ‘glassing,’ you’re putting the fiberglass and resin on the board and putting out a finished product,” Broglio said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said glassing one of the 3D-printed boards wasn’t very different than working with a normal surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It looked really cool when it was done, you know, see-through board and all that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broglio said it could be hard for surf culture to accept new things, but that 3D printing is just another tool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I know there’s going to be guys [who say], ‘Oh my God, the soul of it’s gone,’ but, you know, you got to have somebody that knows surfing that’s been shaping and all that to design the board in the first place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Introducing something new\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Swellcycle prototyped more boards and kept working with local shapers. Eventually, big wave surfer Tyler Fox tried one out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The sustainability element — that these boards are using recycled plastics and they can also get recycled at the end of their life cycle — was something that really excited me,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fox said the boards also catch people’s eye in the water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Midday, where the sun’s shining right through it on a green wave, it just glows. It’s like you’re on a glowing hovercraft, and it’s pretty neat to see how excited people get,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989437\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1706px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989437\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1706\" height=\"1292\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208.jpg 1706w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-800x606.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-1020x772.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-1536x1163.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1706px) 100vw, 1706px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Swellcycle team experiments with a variety of board shapes and plans to eventually sell several different models in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>On a sunny morning on the cliff above the surf spot Steamer Lane, people gathered around the printed surfboards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Dude, it’s trippy how it’s kind of see-through,” said one surfer who stopped to ask the Swellcycle team questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It feels great,” said surfer Antonio Ramirez, who had just finished trying one out in the water. “I love it. It was smooth, fast and loose.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 3D-printed boards have also earned the approval of local legend Bob Pearson, who founded Pearson-Arrow surfboards in the 1960s. He now ships boards to pro surfers around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the massive Pearson Arrow Factory in Santa Cruz, he points out boards destined for Japan and Hawaii. There are potato chip-thin 6-foot-long shortboards and thick, sharply-pointed 10-foot boards for big waves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We make six boards a day,” Pearson said. “We’ve been doing that for years. We’ve made well over 100,000 boards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said the current process has room for improvement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We do them out of polyurethane and EPS — expanded polystyrene, and there’s a lot of waste. That waste goes to landfill. That’s not a good thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the Swellcycle team first approached him, Pearson was skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people bring things in that are really funky,” he said. “They showed it to me, and I was impressed. Very impressed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11772146,news_11139627,arts_13937866\"]Pearson compares the 3D printing technology to when he started using a CNC machine — which automatically sands a board to match a shape designed on a computer. He remembers how people criticized him for not doing everything by hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was one of the first guys to have these in the world, and I got all kinds of crap for having a CNC machine because people didn’t know what the hell it was,” Pearson said. “[They said] it takes a soul out of it, and everyone was badmouthing it. And it’s amazing how many people who were badmouthing it now are utilizing them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few of the Swellcycle boards have been finished at this factory, and Pearson thinks there’s a place in the market for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was stoked, stoked from day one,” he said. “Great idea. 3D printing a surfboard. Unreal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Swellcycle team recently moved out of Guerrero’s garage into a solar-powered warehouse in Santa Cruz. And they just unveiled a 10-foot longboard, opening up their market to newer surfers and people who prefer bigger boards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, they’re looking for surfers to try out the boards and provide long-term feedback. It’ll be the first real test of whether the surfing community is ready for something new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"headline": "Santa Cruz Startup 3D Prints Surfboards From Recycled Hospital Trays",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Ever since Hawaiian princes first brought surfing to Santa Cruz in 1885, the city has been on the cutting edge of a lot of surfing technology. It’s where surfers first began using wetsuits in the 1950s and a decade later, where builders first used CNC machines to automatically shape surfboards. Now, a new local company is contributing to that history of innovation while also making the sport more environmentally friendly: It’s using a 3D printer to craft surfboards out of recycled hospital trays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a Santa Cruz garage, a huge homemade metal machine lays a clear plastic filament down, row by row. This 3D printer uses a digital file to create a three-dimensional object. Over the next couple of days, the rows will form a surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was the first board that kind of sparked the drive for everything else,” said Patricio Guerrero, pulling a finished board out of a rack next to the printer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The surfboard is hollow and translucent, with a diamond-shaped lattice pattern running through it. It almost looks like frosted glass, but it’s not much heavier than a normal surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Beginnings\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Guerrero started printing surfboards in his garage in the fall of 2022 and tested the first one at Steamer Lane, one of the most famous surf spots in Santa Cruz. People have been surfing there since the 1930s, and Steamer Lane has seen plenty of homemade boards. But this was the first made from a 3D printer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was super nervous,” Guerrero recalled. “Man, maybe I’ll just jump in the water, and the whole thing will just break right under me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the board worked, and Guerrero ended up surfing for two hours. From there, he started printing more surfboards. He began using recycled materials and founded a startup, which he called \u003ca href=\"https://swellcyclesurfboards.com/\">Swellcycle\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989359\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2381px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989359\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2381\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998.jpg 2381w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-800x645.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1020x823.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-160x129.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1536x1239.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-2048x1651.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_8998-1920x1548.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2381px) 100vw, 2381px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Patricio Guerrero holds an early version of a Swellcycle 3D printed board in his garage in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A wasteful industry\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Surfboards are an estimated $13 billion global industry. It’s hard to say exactly how many boards are made each year. They’re made by big manufacturers but also by hobbyists in their garages. The best estimate is somewhere in the tens of millions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The majority of those millions of boards are not environmentally friendly. Most surfboards start as a plastic foam block — called a blank — with a thin piece of wood running down the middle. They’re then sanded down to a desired shape and covered in fiberglass and plastic resin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The foam cores in most surfboards can’t easily be recycled, and they don’t biodegrade. Old or broken surfboards usually end up in landfills, where they crumble into smaller and smaller pieces that can pollute water and soil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But 3D-printed boards don’t need foam. They’re mostly hollow, and they can be made from recycled plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can basically melt it down and create a filament that then you feed into your printer,” Guerrero said. For Swellcycle, he started ordering filament made from recycled hospital trays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Guerrero recruited a business partner to design the boards and started sending them to local surfboard shapers for the final fiberglassing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Santa Cruz surfboard shaper Vince Broglio was the first to work with one of Guerrero’s boards. Throughout his nearly 40-year career, he has mostly worked with typical foam boards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’ll have two different types of blanks, ones of polyurethane and ones EPS, expandable foam,” he said. “Hand-shaping a blank that will take me about two hours.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broglio’s shaping room is a two-room shack with an ocean view. The walls are lined with photos of waves, and shelves are packed with materials like fiberglass, carbon fiber and plastic resins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one room, Broglio uses a planar to shape a foam blank, which he then sands by hand. The other room is for putting fiberglass and resin coatings on boards. It smells strongly of plastic resin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989436\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1710px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989436\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1710\" height=\"1237\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555.jpg 1710w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-800x579.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-1020x738.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-160x116.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DCS_1741-scaled-e1717785056555-1536x1111.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1710px) 100vw, 1710px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A nearly finished foam surfboard is ready for fiberglassing and the final resin coating in Vince Broglio’s shaping room in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“When you’re laminating a board or ‘glassing,’ you’re putting the fiberglass and resin on the board and putting out a finished product,” Broglio said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said glassing one of the 3D-printed boards wasn’t very different than working with a normal surfboard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It looked really cool when it was done, you know, see-through board and all that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Broglio said it could be hard for surf culture to accept new things, but that 3D printing is just another tool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I know there’s going to be guys [who say], ‘Oh my God, the soul of it’s gone,’ but, you know, you got to have somebody that knows surfing that’s been shaping and all that to design the board in the first place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Introducing something new\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Swellcycle prototyped more boards and kept working with local shapers. Eventually, big wave surfer Tyler Fox tried one out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The sustainability element — that these boards are using recycled plastics and they can also get recycled at the end of their life cycle — was something that really excited me,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fox said the boards also catch people’s eye in the water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Midday, where the sun’s shining right through it on a green wave, it just glows. It’s like you’re on a glowing hovercraft, and it’s pretty neat to see how excited people get,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989437\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1706px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989437\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1706\" height=\"1292\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208.jpg 1706w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-800x606.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-1020x772.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/DSC04397-scaled-e1717785275208-1536x1163.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1706px) 100vw, 1706px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Swellcycle team experiments with a variety of board shapes and plans to eventually sell several different models in October 2023. \u003ccite>(Erin Malsbury/KAZU)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>On a sunny morning on the cliff above the surf spot Steamer Lane, people gathered around the printed surfboards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Dude, it’s trippy how it’s kind of see-through,” said one surfer who stopped to ask the Swellcycle team questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It feels great,” said surfer Antonio Ramirez, who had just finished trying one out in the water. “I love it. It was smooth, fast and loose.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 3D-printed boards have also earned the approval of local legend Bob Pearson, who founded Pearson-Arrow surfboards in the 1960s. He now ships boards to pro surfers around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the massive Pearson Arrow Factory in Santa Cruz, he points out boards destined for Japan and Hawaii. There are potato chip-thin 6-foot-long shortboards and thick, sharply-pointed 10-foot boards for big waves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We make six boards a day,” Pearson said. “We’ve been doing that for years. We’ve made well over 100,000 boards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said the current process has room for improvement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We do them out of polyurethane and EPS — expanded polystyrene, and there’s a lot of waste. That waste goes to landfill. That’s not a good thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the Swellcycle team first approached him, Pearson was skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of people bring things in that are really funky,” he said. “They showed it to me, and I was impressed. Very impressed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Pearson compares the 3D printing technology to when he started using a CNC machine — which automatically sands a board to match a shape designed on a computer. He remembers how people criticized him for not doing everything by hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was one of the first guys to have these in the world, and I got all kinds of crap for having a CNC machine because people didn’t know what the hell it was,” Pearson said. “[They said] it takes a soul out of it, and everyone was badmouthing it. And it’s amazing how many people who were badmouthing it now are utilizing them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few of the Swellcycle boards have been finished at this factory, and Pearson thinks there’s a place in the market for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was stoked, stoked from day one,” he said. “Great idea. 3D printing a surfboard. Unreal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Swellcycle team recently moved out of Guerrero’s garage into a solar-powered warehouse in Santa Cruz. And they just unveiled a 10-foot longboard, opening up their market to newer surfers and people who prefer bigger boards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, they’re looking for surfers to try out the boards and provide long-term feedback. It’ll be the first real test of whether the surfing community is ready for something new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Want to Go Camping in Big Sur This Summer? What to Know",
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"content": "\u003cp>You heard that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986383/when-will-highway-1-big-sur-reopen\">Highway 1 into Big Sur from the Bay Area is finally open again\u003c/a>, and you’re excited about a summer trip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You want to go camping on that stunning coastline or among the redwoods, but perhaps you still have questions. What Big Sur campsites are actually open right now? What state park camping is available, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953853/how-to-find-a-camping-spot-in-california-when-they-always-seem-to-be-fully-booked\">how hard \u003cem>is \u003c/em>it to find a camping reservation\u003c/a>?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for everything you need to know about camping in Big Sur in 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Which Big Sur camping areas can I access from the Bay Area, and where is Highway 1 still closed?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, a reminder: \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986383/when-will-highway-1-big-sur-reopen\">Highway 1 — the only road in and out of the region — has finally reopened to allow access from the Bay Area into Big Sur\u003c/a> after a slide at Rocky Creek Bridge about 17 miles south of Monterey forced the road’s closure on March 30.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you still can not drive down Highway 1 from San Francisco to Central Coast towns like Cambria, Santa Barbara or Los Angeles. That’s because while Highway 1 is open from Rocky Creek to just south of Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park, a longer section to the south near the town of Lucia remains closed after a rock slide in January 2023 and is \u003ca href=\"https://www.bigsurcalifornia.org/highway_conditions.html\">not scheduled to reopen until at least late fall 2024.\u003c/a> If you’re driving south from the Bay Area along Highway 1, you’ll be able to get as far as Lime Creek, south of the Esalen Institute, but will then be turned back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The good news: That means you can once again access all the parks and camping on the northern end of Big Sur until the Lime Creek turnaround.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bad news: All of Limekiln State Park and its campground remain closed to all visitors because of the Highway 1 repair. If you want to access the camping south of Lucia, you’ll have to \u003ca href=\"https://maps.app.goo.gl/nhYMC9LDeNy2Sz4a8\">drive the (really) long way around from the Bay\u003c/a>: Down Highway 101 to Paso Robles, west on Highway 46 to the coast and then north on Highway 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump to: \u003ca href=\"#wherecanIcampinbigsur\">Where can I camp in Big Sur?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>If you’re planning a quick Big Sur camping getaway on the weekend, you probably want to stick to the northern options closer to the Bay Area. There are public and private campgrounds throughout Big Sur, as well as dispersed camping in the wilderness area.[aside postID=news_11986383 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/BigSur-1020x680.jpg']Because Big Sur is so large, you should decide whether you’re looking for waterfront camping with an ocean view (which is much harder to find), camping along the Big Sur River under the redwoods or the more rugged backpacking up along the wilderness backcountry ridges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before you head out, you should also be prepared for even slower driving along Highway 1 than usual. Just one lane is open on the highway at Rocky Creek, with a timed light alternating traffic in each direction. Check the latest road conditions and be sure any new closures or delays don’t impact your route. You can find the latest info on \u003ca href=\"https://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/\">Caltrans’ own QuickMap site\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/QM/app.htm\">the QuickMap app (available on the App Store and Google Play)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plan on downloading any Google Maps or info before you go, too, because reception can be very spotty.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"wherecanIcampinbigsur\">\u003c/a>Where can I camp in Big Sur?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Remember, \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=577\">Limekiln State Park\u003c/a> is along the off-limited closed section of Highway 1, and all access and campgrounds remain closed. And \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=590\">Hearst San Simeon State Park\u003c/a> is south of that closure, so it requires a longer detour — though it is open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rest of these Big Sur state parks, just south of Monterey on Highway 1, are currently open. All state park campsites can be booked at \u003ca href=\"https://reservecalifornia.com/Web/\">ReserveCalifornia\u003c/a>, typically six months in advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Big Sur state parks that offer camping are:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29852\">\u003cstrong>Andrew Molera State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campsites here opened earlier in May. Both the standard tent campground and the hike-in/bike-in campsites require reservations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/1077\">Andrew Molera State Park reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m\u003c/a>. However, with cancellations and road closures, several reservations are currently still available, especially on weekdays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29886\">\u003cstrong>Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While this park is best known for its hikes and waterfall viewpoint, there are two walk-in campsites near the famous McWay Falls. (No, you can not access or walk down to the beach \u003cem>from \u003c/em>the campsites, so don’t try it — you will be heavily fined.) These sites are among the most popular in the state park system and book up almost instantly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/661/518\">Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park camping reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29832\">\u003cstrong>Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a \u003cem>different\u003c/em> state park than Julia Pfeiffer Burns, to be clear. Pfeiffer Big Sur has a much larger campground, with a ranger station, that sits along the Big Sur River. There are 189 campsites and one cabin. The group campsite is currently closed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/690\">Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park camping reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m.\u003c/a> and typically fill up. However, the ranger \u003cem>does\u003c/em> hand out any open campsites because of last-minute cancellations at 3 p.m.; you must be physically present to get one of those walk-up camping spots. Be warned that the park does not recommend this because you could very easily strike out (and be left with a long drive out).\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Camping in Big Sur private campgrounds\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In addition to the state parks above, many Big Sur campgrounds are run privately. While some of these private campsites are high-end and book out far in advance, many of the private Big Sur campgrounds have more availability than the state parks and are almost indistinguishable from the public campgrounds. However, they are typically more expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The main private Big Sur campgrounds that are north of the road closure:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bigsurcamp.com/\">\u003cstrong>Big Sur Campgrounds & Cabins\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A campground with tent sites, RV sites and a variety of cabins (both larger and metal lean-to’s) along the Big Sur River near the post office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here?\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://secure.webrez.com/Bookings105/activity-edit.html?hotel_id=3590&table=hotels&listing_id=3590&mode=command&command=bookingrequestform_v2&_gl=1*1ypmdpq*_ga*OTYxNzMwNDU2LjE3MTcxMDc0OTM.*_ga_C4GSX0DJKW*MTcxNzEwNzQ5My4xLjEuMTcxNzEwNzUzNy4xNi4wLjA.\">Big Sur Campgrounds and Cabins reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.riversidecampground.com/\">\u003cstrong>Riverside Campgrounds & Cabins\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This campground is next door to the Big Sur Campgrounds & Cabins and offers tent sites, RV sites and small cabins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here?\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.campspot.com/book/riversidecampground\">Riverside Campgrounds & Cabins reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fernwoodbigsur.com/\">\u003cstrong>Fernwood Resort & Campground\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With a motel, bar and grill plus tavern in front, the campground behind the motel has tent sites and pre-pitched tent camping (kind of like glamping) near the river, as well as cabins and RV sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.camplife.com/837/reservation/step1\">Fernwood Resort & Campground reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ventanacamping.com/\">\u003cstrong>Ventana Campground\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next to Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park, Ventana does not allow RVs or pop-up travel trailers but offers tent campsites and glamping sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hyatt.com/en-US/hotel/california/ventana-campground/sjcac\">Ventana Campground reservations are available on their website\u003c/a>, which is Hyatt runs.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Dispersed camping options near Big Sur\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dispersed camping — meaning \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11920867/how-to-find-free-camping-in-californias-national-forests\">camping not at a developed campground, without the amenities those sites would offer\u003c/a> — is allowed for free across the country on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and, in most cases, on Forest Service land.[aside postID=news_11953853 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/06/RS66535_GettyImages-523679818-1-qut-1020x686.jpg']Near Big Sur that means \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins\">the Los Padres National Forest\u003c/a> (Monterey Ranger District) and the BLM’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.blm.gov/visit/ventana-wilderness\">Ventana Wilderness\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/ivm/index.html?minx=-13627654&miny=4108556&maxx=-13158025&maxy=4329306&exploremenu=no&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=Bay%20Curious%20Newsletter&mc_key=90524295\">use the Forest Service map to find possible campsites.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Pine Ridge Trail is the most popular thru-hiking and camping route in Ventana — however, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ventanawild.org/plan-a-trip\">part of it remains closed\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins/recarea/?recid=10951&actid=51\">hikers are being rerouted\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>Bookings are not required for dispersed camping. However, \u003ca href=\"https://readyforwildfire.org/permits/\">if you want to run a campfire or stove, you will need a permit\u003c/a>. Los Padres National Forest also runs \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=10902&actid=29\">a few campgrounds that do require reservations\u003c/a> on Recreation.gov.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the most up-to-date info about all the public lands and road closures, as well as maps, you can stop at the Big Sur Visitor Center, which is at the trailhead for the Pine Ridge Trail, inside the entrance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29832\">Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Highway 1 has reopened after a monthslong closure, and camping in Big Sur is back on the table. Here’s what to know about snagging camping reservations in Big Sur.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>You heard that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986383/when-will-highway-1-big-sur-reopen\">Highway 1 into Big Sur from the Bay Area is finally open again\u003c/a>, and you’re excited about a summer trip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You want to go camping on that stunning coastline or among the redwoods, but perhaps you still have questions. What Big Sur campsites are actually open right now? What state park camping is available, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953853/how-to-find-a-camping-spot-in-california-when-they-always-seem-to-be-fully-booked\">how hard \u003cem>is \u003c/em>it to find a camping reservation\u003c/a>?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for everything you need to know about camping in Big Sur in 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Which Big Sur camping areas can I access from the Bay Area, and where is Highway 1 still closed?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First, a reminder: \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11986383/when-will-highway-1-big-sur-reopen\">Highway 1 — the only road in and out of the region — has finally reopened to allow access from the Bay Area into Big Sur\u003c/a> after a slide at Rocky Creek Bridge about 17 miles south of Monterey forced the road’s closure on March 30.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you still can not drive down Highway 1 from San Francisco to Central Coast towns like Cambria, Santa Barbara or Los Angeles. That’s because while Highway 1 is open from Rocky Creek to just south of Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park, a longer section to the south near the town of Lucia remains closed after a rock slide in January 2023 and is \u003ca href=\"https://www.bigsurcalifornia.org/highway_conditions.html\">not scheduled to reopen until at least late fall 2024.\u003c/a> If you’re driving south from the Bay Area along Highway 1, you’ll be able to get as far as Lime Creek, south of the Esalen Institute, but will then be turned back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The good news: That means you can once again access all the parks and camping on the northern end of Big Sur until the Lime Creek turnaround.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bad news: All of Limekiln State Park and its campground remain closed to all visitors because of the Highway 1 repair. If you want to access the camping south of Lucia, you’ll have to \u003ca href=\"https://maps.app.goo.gl/nhYMC9LDeNy2Sz4a8\">drive the (really) long way around from the Bay\u003c/a>: Down Highway 101 to Paso Robles, west on Highway 46 to the coast and then north on Highway 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump to: \u003ca href=\"#wherecanIcampinbigsur\">Where can I camp in Big Sur?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>If you’re planning a quick Big Sur camping getaway on the weekend, you probably want to stick to the northern options closer to the Bay Area. There are public and private campgrounds throughout Big Sur, as well as dispersed camping in the wilderness area.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Because Big Sur is so large, you should decide whether you’re looking for waterfront camping with an ocean view (which is much harder to find), camping along the Big Sur River under the redwoods or the more rugged backpacking up along the wilderness backcountry ridges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before you head out, you should also be prepared for even slower driving along Highway 1 than usual. Just one lane is open on the highway at Rocky Creek, with a timed light alternating traffic in each direction. Check the latest road conditions and be sure any new closures or delays don’t impact your route. You can find the latest info on \u003ca href=\"https://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/\">Caltrans’ own QuickMap site\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/QM/app.htm\">the QuickMap app (available on the App Store and Google Play)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plan on downloading any Google Maps or info before you go, too, because reception can be very spotty.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"wherecanIcampinbigsur\">\u003c/a>Where can I camp in Big Sur?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Remember, \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=577\">Limekiln State Park\u003c/a> is along the off-limited closed section of Highway 1, and all access and campgrounds remain closed. And \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=590\">Hearst San Simeon State Park\u003c/a> is south of that closure, so it requires a longer detour — though it is open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rest of these Big Sur state parks, just south of Monterey on Highway 1, are currently open. All state park campsites can be booked at \u003ca href=\"https://reservecalifornia.com/Web/\">ReserveCalifornia\u003c/a>, typically six months in advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Big Sur state parks that offer camping are:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29852\">\u003cstrong>Andrew Molera State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campsites here opened earlier in May. Both the standard tent campground and the hike-in/bike-in campsites require reservations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/1077\">Andrew Molera State Park reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m\u003c/a>. However, with cancellations and road closures, several reservations are currently still available, especially on weekdays.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29886\">\u003cstrong>Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While this park is best known for its hikes and waterfall viewpoint, there are two walk-in campsites near the famous McWay Falls. (No, you can not access or walk down to the beach \u003cem>from \u003c/em>the campsites, so don’t try it — you will be heavily fined.) These sites are among the most popular in the state park system and book up almost instantly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/661/518\">Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park camping reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29832\">\u003cstrong>Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a \u003cem>different\u003c/em> state park than Julia Pfeiffer Burns, to be clear. Pfeiffer Big Sur has a much larger campground, with a ranger station, that sits along the Big Sur River. There are 189 campsites and one cabin. The group campsite is currently closed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reservecalifornia.com/Web/#!park/690\">Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park camping reservations open six months in advance at 8 a.m.\u003c/a> and typically fill up. However, the ranger \u003cem>does\u003c/em> hand out any open campsites because of last-minute cancellations at 3 p.m.; you must be physically present to get one of those walk-up camping spots. Be warned that the park does not recommend this because you could very easily strike out (and be left with a long drive out).\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Camping in Big Sur private campgrounds\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In addition to the state parks above, many Big Sur campgrounds are run privately. While some of these private campsites are high-end and book out far in advance, many of the private Big Sur campgrounds have more availability than the state parks and are almost indistinguishable from the public campgrounds. However, they are typically more expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The main private Big Sur campgrounds that are north of the road closure:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bigsurcamp.com/\">\u003cstrong>Big Sur Campgrounds & Cabins\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A campground with tent sites, RV sites and a variety of cabins (both larger and metal lean-to’s) along the Big Sur River near the post office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here?\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://secure.webrez.com/Bookings105/activity-edit.html?hotel_id=3590&table=hotels&listing_id=3590&mode=command&command=bookingrequestform_v2&_gl=1*1ypmdpq*_ga*OTYxNzMwNDU2LjE3MTcxMDc0OTM.*_ga_C4GSX0DJKW*MTcxNzEwNzQ5My4xLjEuMTcxNzEwNzUzNy4xNi4wLjA.\">Big Sur Campgrounds and Cabins reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.riversidecampground.com/\">\u003cstrong>Riverside Campgrounds & Cabins\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This campground is next door to the Big Sur Campgrounds & Cabins and offers tent sites, RV sites and small cabins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here?\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.campspot.com/book/riversidecampground\">Riverside Campgrounds & Cabins reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fernwoodbigsur.com/\">\u003cstrong>Fernwood Resort & Campground\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With a motel, bar and grill plus tavern in front, the campground behind the motel has tent sites and pre-pitched tent camping (kind of like glamping) near the river, as well as cabins and RV sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.camplife.com/837/reservation/step1\">Fernwood Resort & Campground reservations are available on their website.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ventanacamping.com/\">\u003cstrong>Ventana Campground\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next to Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park, Ventana does not allow RVs or pop-up travel trailers but offers tent campsites and glamping sites.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hyatt.com/en-US/hotel/california/ventana-campground/sjcac\">Ventana Campground reservations are available on their website\u003c/a>, which is Hyatt runs.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Dispersed camping options near Big Sur\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dispersed camping — meaning \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11920867/how-to-find-free-camping-in-californias-national-forests\">camping not at a developed campground, without the amenities those sites would offer\u003c/a> — is allowed for free across the country on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and, in most cases, on Forest Service land.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Near Big Sur that means \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins\">the Los Padres National Forest\u003c/a> (Monterey Ranger District) and the BLM’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.blm.gov/visit/ventana-wilderness\">Ventana Wilderness\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/ivm/index.html?minx=-13627654&miny=4108556&maxx=-13158025&maxy=4329306&exploremenu=no&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=Bay%20Curious%20Newsletter&mc_key=90524295\">use the Forest Service map to find possible campsites.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Pine Ridge Trail is the most popular thru-hiking and camping route in Ventana — however, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ventanawild.org/plan-a-trip\">part of it remains closed\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins/recarea/?recid=10951&actid=51\">hikers are being rerouted\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>How do I make a camping reservation here? \u003c/em>Bookings are not required for dispersed camping. However, \u003ca href=\"https://readyforwildfire.org/permits/\">if you want to run a campfire or stove, you will need a permit\u003c/a>. Los Padres National Forest also runs \u003ca href=\"https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/lpnf/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=10902&actid=29\">a few campgrounds that do require reservations\u003c/a> on Recreation.gov.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the most up-to-date info about all the public lands and road closures, as well as maps, you can stop at the Big Sur Visitor Center, which is at the trailhead for the Pine Ridge Trail, inside the entrance of \u003ca href=\"https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29832\">Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reporting on prisons from the outside is often difficult; it’s a closed and secretive world. But there is also important reporting being done by people who are inside prison, which comes with dangers of its own. Sukey and Julie sit down with two formerly incarcerated journalists, Rahsaan Thomas and Jesse Vasquez, to talk about the challenges and opportunities of prison reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6919454101\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rahsaan Thomas is the Executive Director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.empowermentave.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Empowerment Avenue\u003c/a> and a producer at \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jesse Vasquez is the Executive Director of the \u003ca href=\"https://polleninitiative.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Pollen Initiative\u003c/a> and former Editor-in-Chief of the \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">San Quentin News\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start. Just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode references acts of violence. If you or someone you know needs support. We’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi and welcome back to another bonus episode of On Our Watch I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Throughout reporting this season, my co-reporter \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie Small\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I knocked on a lot of closed doors, pored over hundreds of pages of documents that were often redacted beyond recognition, and our best hope of contacting a source in prison was usually to send a letter via snail mail and hope they responded. In general, reporting on prisons can be really difficult, finding sources and navigating the politics of a closed world. But in recent years, there’s also been a revival of the prison journalism movement. Newspapers and podcasts created from inside that world by incarcerated reporters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Julie and I talk to two journalists who started their careers inside prison. Rahsaan “New York” Thomas, who consulted on this season of On Our Watch, is also a producer for the Ear Hustle podcast and started a nonprofit called Empowerment Avenue that supports incarcerated writers and artists. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was editor in chief of the San Quentin News newspaper and now directs a nonprofit called the Pollen Initiative, which provides multimedia training to other people in California prisons. Here’s our conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you, everybody, for coming here today to the various places that we are joining, joining each other from. Rahsaan, how did you become a journalist? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I became a journalist by accident and half way because of a scam. I arrived in the San Quentin prison yard after working on this book for like, maybe seven, eight, almost ten years. And, but the book was mostly handwritten and there was no way to really edit it. Like when you want to edit it, you have to rewrite it or retype it and it’s like… And so I wanted to work for San Quentin News because they had computers and I wanted to type my book and set a computer so I can get somebody to help me edit it and hopefully publish it and get it on the New York Times bestseller list and change the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so I went in there with that mindset. But I started fell in love with journalism. They made me the, sports reporter. And at first I was like, I want to write about bigger and better issues. Sports just seems so limited. But then I realized that. There was some social justice things happening, some really beautiful human interest things happening on the basketball court because it was uniting worlds that never meet normally, like billionaires and millionaires were playing basketball with kids from the streets of Los Angeles. And so something beautiful happening. And I fell in love with writing. And I found out at the same time that my book was horrible. Nobody ever deserves to see it. I need to rewrite it anyway. And but I got so caught up with journalism I never got to finish the book. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel you, I’m a I’m a failed novelist and poet. So journalism. Same save the universe from my creative writing as well. Jesse, what was your journey to journalism? How did you become involved in this world? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think my journey started with kind of like Rahsaan as an accident. I was more into daily journaling, and I was a pretty good writer in my academic, pursuits. Then I decided to transfer to San Quentin because I saw the San Quentin News join the Journalism Guild. And I fell in love with just telling people stories and meeting people in the yard and seeing what they were up to and making a difference in our community inside. I think journalism for me was what gave me purpose. In spite of the multiple life sentences that I was serving. It gave me an outlet to share people’s stories and make a difference while I was incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now you’re an editor. Like, how how was that transition and what’s the difference in in your mind if there is one between the work that you did as a journalist and as an editor? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the huge difference is I have to think more in terms of management and structure, like it’s… Before it was just, you know, I want to tell impactful stories, powerful stories, you know, human interest stories. And then I realized that there’s, you know, a ripple effect to what we say, how we say it and to who we say it, depending on the platform that we’re using. And editing and overseeing the management of incarcerated produced content for, like an institutional publication like San Quentin News can be a bit tricky just because, you know, there’s certain things that we want to be mindful of when it comes to what we publish and produce. So it’s very it’s a very political position. I never understood that being an editor was very political, and you have to be very mindful of, you know, how you approach a subject, you know, not just because of the liabilities, you know, but also because we have a certain responsibility to the community that we represent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. The San Quentin News is such a unique publication. I myself am an alum of that program. When I was in graduate school at UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, I got to go in with my professor, Bill Drummond, and work with some of the incarcerated journalists. And for me, you know, as a baby reporter myself, just figuring out the world of journalism, it was so inspiring to work with incarcerated reporters and also just to learn more about the this world of prison, prison reporting and criminal justice and kind of got me started heading down deeper and deeper into gaining expertise in the field and becoming a criminal justice reporter myself. What about you, Julie? Like what- what drew you to prison reporting in the first place? And, you know, is there a kind of seminal story for you about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I, I like to say that it picked me. I didn’t pick prisons, picked prisons, picked me because my first day on the job in Sacramento was the day the then Governor Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency in the prisons for overcrowding. The first major story I did was, you know, going into San Quentin, actually, with the federal receiver who’d been appointed by a federal judge to improve prison medical care because one person a day was dying inside our prisons because they couldn’t get access to care. There were like 200,000, almost 200,000 people incarcerated in California in 2006 for facilities designed for 80,000 people. And you can only imagine that’s going to compromise every aspect of life, especially medical care. So the Supreme Court ordered California to reduce the crowding. And that was sort of unprecedented, kind of order to get from the US Supreme Court. So it’s just been a part of my life following that, mostly, for over a decade. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or San for you, is there a story that you feel kind of most proud of reporting, or a moment where you feel like your journalism was kind of able to, you know, affect the broadest number of people or anything like that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s definitely a story I’m proud of, but I don’t feel it had the impact I wanted. I wrote a story for Wall City Magazine, which is a division of San Quentin News, about stopping gun violence, because I was watching TV one day and the senator was acting like he’s an expert on stopping gun violence because he talked to a gunshot victim. And based on talking to this gunshot victim, he came up with this or supported this idea of arming the teachers. And I’m sitting here thinking like, if you arm to teachers, that’s where the next guns are going to come from, you big dummy. And I just felt like, here I am in a prison with 2500 lifers running around with very little supervision at times, and it’s one of the safest places I had ever been up at that point in my life. And most of these guys that committed violence and we stopped it by therapy really, like putting restorative justice into place, not as a way to deal with harm, but as a as a way of life. So when harm is thinking about happening, this way of life is already in place to prevent it. Right. And just that therapy and being included in a community, being exclusioned, leaving people out of society, right, and rubbing in their face that you’re here but you’re not one of us. There’s all these different things that were happening in San Quentin, and I felt like were an answer to gun violence. And I wanted to get that out there. And so I did a lot of research and wrote this article I’m really proud of, and I think I’m the only that read it. Cuz we still get shot. Ah it’s sad. It’s sad.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh I’m sorry. That that’s one of the most frustrating things is finding an audience for for your reporting. What about you, Jesse? Is there a story that you’re the most, you know, proud of writing or, you know, being an editor for getting getting in the paper? You know, despite obstacles?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will clarify that. I did read Roseanne’s piece on gun violence. So it was two of us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At least two people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At least two of us read it. Well, there was probably one adviser who read it to to proofread it. So we did the best we could. There is one story that I think, I, I mean, I wrote and it was based on the victim compensation fund and the Department of Corrections. And I think the reason why I remember that story very vividly, because I had a couple guys on the prison yard actually come to me, right? And tell me, like, dude, like I didn’t know where my restitution money was going. I didn’t understand that there’s this victim compensation fund that is there, but the victims had to actually request it. You know, it’s not an automatic thing where, you know, like you’re paying into the restitution and a check is sent to the victims every, you know, month or every six months or whatever. It’s they have to keep their address up to date. They have to check that the money is there. They have to make sure that they tell the, you know, victim compensation board to make sure that they, you know, get their money. So I had a couple guys come to me and say, like, ‘You know what, I contacted my family to contact so-and-so to let them know, like, hey, there’s some money waiting for you because I’m getting charged for it. And I want to make sure that the victims get it. Instead of it being rolled into the general fund or whatever, you know that the state does.’ And I think the reason why I’m most proud of that story in particular, is because I’ve always wanted to at least make a difference in the small community that we were serving. And for me, that immediate context is the people that I was locked up with. And that’s why, like, you know, still to this day, I remember that one story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rahsaan, I was also wanting to ask you about the stories that you didn’t get to tell. Like, are there any stories that you wished you could tell, you know, while you were incarcerated but could not, because of, you know, the pressures or the censorship from others or just the limitations of the environment?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honestly, there’s stories that I wish were told, but I didn’t want to tell them. For instance, there were like prison officials and wardens that were like getting in legal troubles. And so it felt hypocritical that they weren’t being punished and they were responsible for holding us accountable. But at the same time, I’m not trying to do stories about, like, blood and crip stuff, right? Like I’m trying to do positive stories or story that’s going to make a difference in stories like, look what they’re doing, right? I wanted to do stories that like, ‘Look what we could be doing and be a better place.’ So I can’t say there’s any stories that I really held back on. There’s stories I haven’t finished yet. There’s stories I’m working on, but nothing’s stopping me with me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you know, Jesse, I have a slightly different question for you, which is just, you know, as an editor, has there ever been a time where, you know, CDCR leadership or, you know, the warden of San Quentin or now that you’ve spread to other, you know, places has, you know, shut down a story or killed a story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there was a story, one in particular that was going to go into Wall City Magazine. And it was a great story about, you know, two people finding love inside of the carceral system. I don’t know if you remember this one Rahsaan, but it was going to go in Wall City Magazine, and it was a great story written by Joe Garcia. And the lead editor on that was Kate McQueen. And it was an awesome piece, maybe about 2500 words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the reason why it became an issue was for safety concerns. You know, inside of the California prison system, you can imagine the amount of, you know, machismo and, let’s say gender bias and stuff that exists, and a lot of the violence that is perpetuated against trans and, you know, other communities that people consider other. So it was like the administration was like, ‘We can’t let you run that story. It’s going to jeopardize these individuals, you know, if they get transferred somewhere else. San Quentin is a more, let’s say, tolerant environment, a more accepting environment. But if they ever get transferred somewhere else, you’re jeopardizing their safety. And, you know, we can’t allow that.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that was one issue where I didn’t agree with the decision. But I also understood that it’s not my responsibility to worry about people’s safety. That’s the state responsibility. And they’re seeing it from a liability perspective that I wasn’t paying attention to. I was just looking at it as a good story. They were looking at it well, there’s liability, you know, and there’s implications. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I wanted to shift us into talking a little bit about some of the things that we ran into reporting this podcast, you know, this season of On Our Watch. Rahsaan, you were an editorial consultant for On Our Watch, and you gave feedback along the way about the series. And, you know, I always just really appreciated your input. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the things that you just kind of, I think brought home for me, in the editorial room was the kind of wildness of the situation with the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. The fact that deadly force was not used, you know, in this unit and, you know, when this was transpiring. And you really wanted to, you know, help us get that across to listeners because we, you know, in our earlier drafts, we’re not doing so. Can you talk a little bit about that, like why that particular environment, why it was so kind of startling to you — who has a familiarity with the world inside prison — why the deadly force was not used as an option? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. The first thing you see, or one of the first things you notice that sounds really cold is the sign on the wall that says no warning shots, and they mean it. They don’t yell, you know, ‘Stop, break up the fight.’ They break up fights with gunfire. And so I know them to be really harsh with that weapon that Mini 14. I’ve been on the yard with people who have bullets in them from that Mini 14, and for it not to be used in that incident where the that might have been a viable way to stop somebody from getting killed? And they didn’t? It just spoke to me it like that was a setup. Like that was a huge clue to me that that’s not how that world works. I’ve actually seen the gun fired at San Quentin before, and this is like one guy had another guy in a headlock. No weapons were involved, but he just wouldn’t let him out of a headlock. And then, thank God, the officer fired into the ground. But he fired into the ground three times, right next to where the guy had the other guy in a headlock for a wrestling match, right? So I just don’t know a world where somebody’s gets stabbed to death and they don’t use that gun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And you talked about the kind of psychological impact of, like, living under that gun, like that, you know, that gun is in the control booth kind of looking over you all the time. And that really made an impact on me because I was kind of thinking about it more from the perspective of just like, ‘Oh, this is this person’s job is supposed to keep people safe.’ But there is just always this gun looking over you no matter what you’re doing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I always felt like it’s supposed to protect you, but I always felt like because they have a bad habit of hitting people of color, not using them when your lives on the line, just, like, really selective. And even in a perfect world where they’re trying to do the right thing, it’s still a matter of aim and movement and just all these different factors. I rather take my chances with the ice pick. Y’all mind y’all business. I rather take my chances with the ice pick than that gun being over my head. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. Jesse, I also called you a number of times while working on this series because I just think of you as somebody who’s got really good advice about how to deal with tricky situations, ethical decisions, and, you know, just to make sure, like, do a gut check on myself about how I’m approaching certain things. And I know you have really strong feelings about this, but like, can you tell me, you know, what are your pet peeves? What are the pitfalls that you see reporters or news organizations falling prey to, you know, when they’re reporting on prisons and incarceration? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It’s, I think it’s it’s personal to me just because, like, I know the folks inside, you know, and having been there for, you know, two decades, you get to learn people’s mannerisms and stuff and you have a different appreciation for life. So some of the things that I know, you know, when people report on the incarcerated or just on things that pertain to our living environment, there’s certain things that need to be said and told. Right? But they have repercussions for us as a population. It’s just like one thing, right? Like, for instance, they told the story about us getting, you know, Snickers bars and peanuts back in the days for Christmas. We used to get free Christmas packages, you know, that were paid for by the state. And a reporter happened to run the story and stuff like that. And it was great that the state was doing something for the incarcerated during Christmas time, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But unfortunately, when the story came out, there was so much backlash behind the state being “soft on crime” that they stopped that program. So it’s like, did you do this story as a human interest story or were you doing the story? Just because look at what taxpayer money is doing. Look at what they’re doing. They’re feeding these criminals and stuff. Right. So it’s the twist that they put on it. And sadly, you know, most of the stories that have come out of prison, you know, have been detrimental to the incarcerated, to our conditions. And everybody’s been speaking on our behalf, taking our quotes out of context. And it’s like, well, how come you just don’t let me tell the story, you know, how come you just don’t, like, report accurately what I’m trying to mention. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most reporters, they parachute into the prisons, they parachute in, get a story, run that story, and they tell you like, you know, number one is like, we want to protect people’s, you know, safety and well-being and stuff like that. That’s an illusion. That’s to appease your conscience. You can’t. You can’t guarantee anything. You know, once you take that story and run with it. Right. You can’t guarantee nobody’s safety. That’s number one. Number two, the idea of, you know, journalism doing no harm. It’s like nobody tells a story not intending to do harm. Sometimes we tell the story one and people to go to jail wanting things to change. Like that’s a reality. That’s harm. That’s going to happen to somebody’s family somewhere, somehow. You know, so when you take a story that a reporter publishes and then they don’t come back to talk to the person that they interviewed, when they don’t try to create community or relationships or stay engaged to make sure that nothing does happen to this person, like, that’s a disservice to that individual and to themselves as journalists, because now you’ve lost your credibility with the incarcerated because you told them you wanted this story to make a difference, but then you, like, let them down by just walking away after you got a Pulitzer or something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As part of Empowerment Avenue, we have help writers publish stories that are critical to CDCR and major platforms, and they have gotten flack for it. One writer in particular, he was put into a cell with a guy known for attacking people, and we feel it was on purpose. Like, you know, this guy’s attacking. You know, he keeps attacking people. He’s an old man with mental health issues. You know, this is going to happen. Sure enough, my boy got attacked. He didn’t fight back, though. He just did enough to, like, stop the attack. And they still put him in a hole even though he was the victim. Right. So we really feel like it was retaliatory. And in situations like that, your heart goes out and it’s a reminder that everybody’s not in San Quentin. Where the retaliat- I believe there’s retaliation as well, but it looks different. It doesn’t look like violence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was he was that person okay? Like what? What happened to them? Physically? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re fine. They survived it. Got hit in the head with a lock. So he survived it. And we’re trying to like right now sue to get the video footage to try to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie, I was going to ask you, was is there anything, you know, that you’ve noticed in your years of reporting about prisons, you know, blind spots that you see regularly in the media or, you know, things that you’ve learned over the years that have kind of informed the way you approach prison reporting? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I like what was said about people parachuting in. That happens a lot. I like to think that I didn’t parachute in, but, because I kept covering the stories. But I can see now that I, I relied too heavily on advocates and people on the outside. It was harder before to actually speak to people who are incarcerated. And the first experience of having good access was during Covid. And I was able to talk to people in San Quentin as things were happening. But that was relatively new and recorded on a decent line. And, so it’s it’s changed and there’s better access now, but, a lot of times people will just focus in on one issue. There’s so many systemic issues. It needs to be covered over a period of time. So you can see if anything’s changing, if anything’s coming out of your reporting. It’s nearly impossible because it’s such a closed system. And I didn’t really appreciate that until we did this podcast. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and I was thinking about the things that are being measured throughout my career, you know, the medical care, mental health care, how many visits to the therapist, dental care. You know, those were tangible things that I could measure, and even use of force going up or use of force going down. But we actually aren’t told what’s going on inside the prisons, where if a crime occurs inside, it’s not a public record. There’s so much going on, and it’s really hard for us to gauge how how dangerous it is because it’s completely being withheld from us. And, this podcast was the first time I really got to talk to correctional officers who were open about it, and also realizing that there are- they’re also people on that side caught in this, you know, silence, this code of silence that you can’t break it. They don’t agree with it. They’re aware of the problems, but they go along. And so I guess. That’s a much harder story to get at. And it took two years for us to get it. That’s, you know, and that’s maybe why people don’t get at it. But, this is breaking through that silence. The only way is to find to talk to more people who are formerly incarcerated and more people who are currently incarcerated and former staff of any stripe, whether they’re officers or psych techs or whatever they are. It’s the only way we’re going to know, really, what’s going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jesse, you know, two of the kind of main subjects of the series were these two correctional officers who became whistleblowers, who reported misconduct, you know, within the ISU, the investigative services unit that they worked. And I just wonder about your experience with that. Like, have you had experience with correctional officers who became whistleblowers, who are willing to talk to you for stories or willing to talk to reporters for the San Quentin News? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve. I’ve gotten, I mean, I know some corrections officers, now. It’s interesting to say, you know, that we’re friends to some extent. You know, it’s it would be odd, you know, to say that they weren’t, though, just because the level of intimacy that we’ve developed over time, and I think that just came with, like, developing a relationship where there was like, care and concern for the individual as a person versus just as a source for a story. And even though some of the stories that they’ve shared. Right, they go back, you know, five years, ten years, 15 years. Right. We haven’t really pursued them in a formal way, in an official way. Like if I get a story, I’ll usually pawn it off on somebody else because it’s not what we actually do at San Quentin News, or it’s something that I know is going to jeopardize, you know, that individual’s job or his safety. And it’s a story that I believe that, it’s not going to necessarily influence policy. Right. Because one of the things, right, when I hear stories of corrections officers in the struggles that they go through, you know, they go through the same issues that we go through as a culture inside of the prison system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, Rahsaan, what was your experience, you know, as a journalist incarcerated, you know, trying to get people to talk, you know, trying to get people to break that code of silence or that taboo against, you know, quote unquote, snitching?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I had different experiences. Some I never broke it, some I did, but for the most part, I wasn’t asking people to snitch on anything. Right. I allow people to be comfortable talking about the story without editing. And then I would edit in a way that would be to tell a story, but be respectful to the to their lives, to their trust in me, their faith in me. Because I always tell people, ‘I’m not TMZ, right? I’m trying to tell a story to make a difference. Right? I’m not. I’m a solution based reporter. I’m not. I’m just telling the story for entertainment. I don’t care about clicks. I don’t care about ratings. I don’t care about none of that stuff.’ I just want to put some intelligence on our world and show people like how we can deal with things in a way that’s gonna be effective. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so people trusted me with their stories because I wouldn’t put stuff out there that didn’t belong out there. That wasn’t necessary for the story. And if there was something edgy where we walking the line, I would talk about it with them and ask them did they feel comfortable? And they would have to make a grown person decision. Then when we started doing that, there were like OGs that would vouch for us. There were like there were people in the community be like, ‘Nah.’ Then an OG be like, ‘Yo, they good, I good bro. Like, you can talk to them.’ And they would get the green light to do the interview. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s really amazing. Another like really big hurdle that we dealt with and also that incarcerated people face, not just in the world of journalism, but overall is this perceived lack of credibility. And we saw this over and over again, you know, incarcerated people who had reported officers for using excessive force. But if the use of force happened in a place where there were no cameras, if there was no other tangible evidence to back up their story, it was not their story did not prevail. Jesse, can you talk a little bit about how you deal with these issues of credibility as an editor and how you advise journalists that you work with to think about these issues and help them get, you know, accountability or get justice through reporting? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It’s, very tricky. Just because there’s, a couple of things, right, that I learned when I first went into the system before I became a journalist. Right. That have carried over into how we set editorial, reporting expectations. You know, it’s like you can go to an interview, hear a story from somebody, and then if it’s an allegation of misconduct or something like that, then we ask for like, documentation, paperwork, you know, appointment dockets. We ask for corroborating evidence, you know, like maybe a witness or two. Right. Somebody that was there and stuff like that. But the other thing that we also tell our reporters is the people that they’re interviewing, like if there isn’t documentation yet, had them document it now and start lodging those, you know, grievance forms like a 602, right. Start writing the ombudsman, start sending something to the attorney general and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then that way our story isn’t just, you know, he said she said, because that also protects us. Like, I want to make sure that above all else, right, that we continue to have some institutional credibility as a publication that at least tries to fact check and, you know, try to advise the people that were interviewing to do what’s right. Because the main thing that I realize about, the outside world and how they look at prison journalism, the way that we do it, is they think that it’s always advocacy journalism. And it’s not always that, you know, but they think because it’s prison journalists producing journalism, that it has to be advocacy because we’re talking against a system. And sometimes I think what we’re actually doing is just, you know, as they say, historically, journalism happens to be the first rough draft of human history. And I think that’s what we’re doing, just chronicling, you know, what’s happening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about you, Rahsaan? Is there, like any difference in the way that you think about credibility in, in prison or in talking to incarcerated sources versus just, you know, any source that you might talk to for a story? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I start out with talking with anyone as if they’re telling the truth, unless my instincts or they give me a reason not to believe them, or they make a claim that the world might not believe. And like Jesse said, you need proof to back it up. Not for me, but because if we’re going to print, it could be a lawsuit. Whatever I need to be able to back this up, it needs to be a fact, right? I think one of my greatest problems or greatest issues I ran into was being a freelancer. When it came to quoting incarcerated people in the yard. There were organizations that wanted like, it was just hard for them to accept a quote from an incarcerated person. They wanted, like notes and verification and just all this extra layers. But yet they’ll take a CDCR quote and run with it. Just don’t even fact check nothing, just run with it, put out propaganda. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I just felt like what makes their work better than ours? Or what as a journalist like, why would you devalue- is it me? Because like, you know, we have people on NBC that was known liars, like all kinds of journalists, on major platforms. So it’s not where you at, you know, that determines your level of integrity. And so I felt like I was almost being censored by my colleagues because you’re putting a higher standard on who’s quotable or who’s reliable. When I’m telling you I’m living right here. And I see this person’s daily walk every day. They’re reliable, right? They have a reliable track record. Right. And so who are you doubting, me? Them? Both? And what are you using to weigh credibility? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie, I know you have spent many years covering prisons, a lot of years talking to public information officers and public affairs officers for CDCR. A lot of years, you know, trying to break through the wall of bureaucracy and official speak to get real answers on things that are incredibly important, you know, both for people who are incarcerated and for people who are not incarcerated, who pay for this incredibly expensive system that we all own here in California. You know, what are your, you know, tips, and, and how to do that or if not tips, what are your frustrations with trying to do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I’m going to be a little negative here. I don’t think you’ll ever get a specific answer to a specific question unless it’s innocuous or makes them look good. I think the way to deal with it is to get your information and to dig deep and have your facts. And like we did in the podcast, like, say, ‘This, this and this happened, what’s your response?’ So that it’s like you’re giving them enough rope. They are saying something ludicrous in response to evidence that you’re presenting in your story. So I think it’s like going every other place to get the information, stacking it up and presenting it and then saying, ‘Okay, now try to deny all this.’ And then let them, let them deny it. And they it just exposes them as for what they are, just not telling the truth. Not not being forthright. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what’s been your experience like, Jesse? I mean, I know, like when you were incarcerated, you would have to, you know, try and get response from CDCR and now, you know, as you know, kind of a publisher, like helping other journalists who are incarcerated, you know, how do you kind of bring accountability questions to, you know, CDC, our public affairs, and what are the kinds of answers you get? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s pretty interesting because the whole profession of being a public information officer, right? It’s a lot of damage control. You know, it’s a lot of damage control. It’s a lot of, you know, trying to salvage an image, you know, and I think, again, like I always preface what I say with, I try to give people a lot of grace because I understand as individuals you’re put in between a rock and a hard spot, right? When this is your job, this is what you get paid for. This is what you’re supposed to do, right? Ethically and morally, you may not agree with it, right? And you may have questions. But, you know, at the end of the day, you have to protect your institution from liability, you know? So I’m very mindful of that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, when I talk to our reporters and everybody that we’re training to be reporters inside the carceral system, it’s like, don’t expect people to validate the truth that you know. You know, like, just know that there’s going to be some version that’s going to come out that may not be the actual truth, you know, but you have to find a way to tell that story anyway. And then we have to be able to, not just bring them accountability, but also bring enough awareness and notoriety to the issue that it’s going to make a difference. Right? Because it can’t just come from one person and one source. And I think that’s been the thing that has helped us. Right? It’s not just about like the incarcerated. So our editor in chief wants to know this, you know, do you have an answer for him? It’s like, well, our editor in chief, you know, these two other publications and these five organizations, you know, are interested in what’s happening here. And all of a sudden it’s like, oh, you got more people involved and stuff, right? So it’s like there’s more eyeballs. There’s more accountability, right? Having more like institutions that produce journalism be involved with prison journalists is essential if we’re going to hold the systems accountable. Right. Because I think at the end of the day, most people want accountability and transparency, right? But it’s scary to go through that change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, Rahsaan, I know we’ve talked in the past before about like, the frustrations that you have about the kinds of stories you feel like you’re allowed to tell, or people want you to tell. Can you speak to that a little bit about just, you know, the limitations that people of the journalism people allow you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It goes back to credibility again. Right? For whatever reason, they don’t respect incarcerated people as real journalists, even though we are behind enemy lines, so to speak, and speaking from the belly of the beast, which is a tough. But certain organizations limit you to opinion pieces. Right. And so I try to be positive about that. Like we do enough opinion pieces and they’ll respect, like, we’ll build a relationship and then they’ll respect us. And then a guy will end up, you know, doing a feature piece, doing an actual reported piece. And, you know, here and there that works out, but some of us are still stuck, and some of these organizations still got it stuck in opinion piece mode. And I just think we’re so much better than that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I know that sometimes somebody might take offense that they’ve been to journalism school and got this degree and spent all this money and here comes somebody who just bootleg trained off the yard in the Journalism Guild, and they’re able to earn a living from prison or take up space in that paper that maybe these journalists feel like that belongs to me and my degree. But I think that if you want a better society, you have to get the whole story. Then we’ll be doing what we supposed to do as journalists, which I believe is a- to foster democracy, a world that’s inclusive, a world that’s better, a world that works for all of us. But if we only featuring one side of the story and we limit ourselves to this crap. This clickbait. We get what we we going to keep getting what we’ve been getting. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I do want to say that I think things are getting somewhat better. Empowerment Avenue launched during Covid when reporters couldn’t get the story except having direct access to us. And so we controlled the narrative and we were able to put stories out. But COVID’s gone and the demand for incarcerated voices has gone up. And now guys have actual journalism jobs as like editors and reporters from prison and making decent salaries. So I think the world is changing. But there’s still some organizations that don’t have incarcerated voices connected. They haven’t built that community. They don’t know where the experts are. So there’s still more work to be done. But because that the demand for our voices has grown, and formerly incarcerated people keep winning Pulitzer Prizes. So I’m super proud. Like the world wants to hear our side of the story, they tired of the same old law and order crap, right? And so I’m really going into the future hopeful, but yet still speaking loudly about all the flaws that we need to fix so we can hurry up and fix them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think I’ll just add that what made prison journalism a force to be reckoned with in the 1800s early 1900s, up until 1991, when we had, you know 300 newspapers inside of prisons, it was community engagement, you know, like deep engagement, you know, with the prison system and, you know, just paying attention to those stories and holding the system accountable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other thing, too, like a lot of times we think that change in policy is going to change the world. And it doesn’t. You know, you can’t legislate how people feel about each other. You can’t tell me I gotta like somebody. You have to create a culture and an environment and a space where I want to help, where I want to care, where I want to be involved. Right. And I think creating spaces like this prison journalism movement that we have going on, like we’re actually trying to develop more civic engagement because people who are civically engaged care about their communities, and their communities start caring about them. So and I think that’s going to be at the core of how we create a cultural change that’s going to, you know, supersede policy, you know, by maybe five, ten years. So be mindful that, you know, like how you report on people, shows what you care for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you, Jessie and Roseanne and Julie for having this great conversation about journalism. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you. I appreciate being here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Thanks for having us as colleagues on here. It’s great. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have links to Jesse and Rahsaan’s work in our episode description, as well as other resources to support prison journalism. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@KQED.org. This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of Podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa. Final mixing by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager, our managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr., Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reporting on prisons from the outside is often difficult; it’s a closed and secretive world. But there is also important reporting being done by people who are inside prison, which comes with dangers of its own. Sukey and Julie sit down with two formerly incarcerated journalists, Rahsaan Thomas and Jesse Vasquez, to talk about the challenges and opportunities of prison reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6919454101\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rahsaan Thomas is the Executive Director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.empowermentave.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Empowerment Avenue\u003c/a> and a producer at \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jesse Vasquez is the Executive Director of the \u003ca href=\"https://polleninitiative.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Pollen Initiative\u003c/a> and former Editor-in-Chief of the \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">San Quentin News\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mental health resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start. Just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode references acts of violence. If you or someone you know needs support. We’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi and welcome back to another bonus episode of On Our Watch I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Throughout reporting this season, my co-reporter \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie Small\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I knocked on a lot of closed doors, pored over hundreds of pages of documents that were often redacted beyond recognition, and our best hope of contacting a source in prison was usually to send a letter via snail mail and hope they responded. In general, reporting on prisons can be really difficult, finding sources and navigating the politics of a closed world. But in recent years, there’s also been a revival of the prison journalism movement. Newspapers and podcasts created from inside that world by incarcerated reporters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Julie and I talk to two journalists who started their careers inside prison. Rahsaan “New York” Thomas, who consulted on this season of On Our Watch, is also a producer for the Ear Hustle podcast and started a nonprofit called Empowerment Avenue that supports incarcerated writers and artists. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was editor in chief of the San Quentin News newspaper and now directs a nonprofit called the Pollen Initiative, which provides multimedia training to other people in California prisons. Here’s our conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you, everybody, for coming here today to the various places that we are joining, joining each other from. Rahsaan, how did you become a journalist? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I became a journalist by accident and half way because of a scam. I arrived in the San Quentin prison yard after working on this book for like, maybe seven, eight, almost ten years. And, but the book was mostly handwritten and there was no way to really edit it. Like when you want to edit it, you have to rewrite it or retype it and it’s like… And so I wanted to work for San Quentin News because they had computers and I wanted to type my book and set a computer so I can get somebody to help me edit it and hopefully publish it and get it on the New York Times bestseller list and change the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so I went in there with that mindset. But I started fell in love with journalism. They made me the, sports reporter. And at first I was like, I want to write about bigger and better issues. Sports just seems so limited. But then I realized that. There was some social justice things happening, some really beautiful human interest things happening on the basketball court because it was uniting worlds that never meet normally, like billionaires and millionaires were playing basketball with kids from the streets of Los Angeles. And so something beautiful happening. And I fell in love with writing. And I found out at the same time that my book was horrible. Nobody ever deserves to see it. I need to rewrite it anyway. And but I got so caught up with journalism I never got to finish the book. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel you, I’m a I’m a failed novelist and poet. So journalism. Same save the universe from my creative writing as well. Jesse, what was your journey to journalism? How did you become involved in this world? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think my journey started with kind of like Rahsaan as an accident. I was more into daily journaling, and I was a pretty good writer in my academic, pursuits. Then I decided to transfer to San Quentin because I saw the San Quentin News join the Journalism Guild. And I fell in love with just telling people stories and meeting people in the yard and seeing what they were up to and making a difference in our community inside. I think journalism for me was what gave me purpose. In spite of the multiple life sentences that I was serving. It gave me an outlet to share people’s stories and make a difference while I was incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now you’re an editor. Like, how how was that transition and what’s the difference in in your mind if there is one between the work that you did as a journalist and as an editor? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the huge difference is I have to think more in terms of management and structure, like it’s… Before it was just, you know, I want to tell impactful stories, powerful stories, you know, human interest stories. And then I realized that there’s, you know, a ripple effect to what we say, how we say it and to who we say it, depending on the platform that we’re using. And editing and overseeing the management of incarcerated produced content for, like an institutional publication like San Quentin News can be a bit tricky just because, you know, there’s certain things that we want to be mindful of when it comes to what we publish and produce. So it’s very it’s a very political position. I never understood that being an editor was very political, and you have to be very mindful of, you know, how you approach a subject, you know, not just because of the liabilities, you know, but also because we have a certain responsibility to the community that we represent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. The San Quentin News is such a unique publication. I myself am an alum of that program. When I was in graduate school at UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, I got to go in with my professor, Bill Drummond, and work with some of the incarcerated journalists. And for me, you know, as a baby reporter myself, just figuring out the world of journalism, it was so inspiring to work with incarcerated reporters and also just to learn more about the this world of prison, prison reporting and criminal justice and kind of got me started heading down deeper and deeper into gaining expertise in the field and becoming a criminal justice reporter myself. What about you, Julie? Like what- what drew you to prison reporting in the first place? And, you know, is there a kind of seminal story for you about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I, I like to say that it picked me. I didn’t pick prisons, picked prisons, picked me because my first day on the job in Sacramento was the day the then Governor Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency in the prisons for overcrowding. The first major story I did was, you know, going into San Quentin, actually, with the federal receiver who’d been appointed by a federal judge to improve prison medical care because one person a day was dying inside our prisons because they couldn’t get access to care. There were like 200,000, almost 200,000 people incarcerated in California in 2006 for facilities designed for 80,000 people. And you can only imagine that’s going to compromise every aspect of life, especially medical care. So the Supreme Court ordered California to reduce the crowding. And that was sort of unprecedented, kind of order to get from the US Supreme Court. So it’s just been a part of my life following that, mostly, for over a decade. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or San for you, is there a story that you feel kind of most proud of reporting, or a moment where you feel like your journalism was kind of able to, you know, affect the broadest number of people or anything like that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s definitely a story I’m proud of, but I don’t feel it had the impact I wanted. I wrote a story for Wall City Magazine, which is a division of San Quentin News, about stopping gun violence, because I was watching TV one day and the senator was acting like he’s an expert on stopping gun violence because he talked to a gunshot victim. And based on talking to this gunshot victim, he came up with this or supported this idea of arming the teachers. And I’m sitting here thinking like, if you arm to teachers, that’s where the next guns are going to come from, you big dummy. And I just felt like, here I am in a prison with 2500 lifers running around with very little supervision at times, and it’s one of the safest places I had ever been up at that point in my life. And most of these guys that committed violence and we stopped it by therapy really, like putting restorative justice into place, not as a way to deal with harm, but as a as a way of life. So when harm is thinking about happening, this way of life is already in place to prevent it. Right. And just that therapy and being included in a community, being exclusioned, leaving people out of society, right, and rubbing in their face that you’re here but you’re not one of us. There’s all these different things that were happening in San Quentin, and I felt like were an answer to gun violence. And I wanted to get that out there. And so I did a lot of research and wrote this article I’m really proud of, and I think I’m the only that read it. Cuz we still get shot. Ah it’s sad. It’s sad.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh I’m sorry. That that’s one of the most frustrating things is finding an audience for for your reporting. What about you, Jesse? Is there a story that you’re the most, you know, proud of writing or, you know, being an editor for getting getting in the paper? You know, despite obstacles?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will clarify that. I did read Roseanne’s piece on gun violence. So it was two of us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At least two people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At least two of us read it. Well, there was probably one adviser who read it to to proofread it. So we did the best we could. There is one story that I think, I, I mean, I wrote and it was based on the victim compensation fund and the Department of Corrections. And I think the reason why I remember that story very vividly, because I had a couple guys on the prison yard actually come to me, right? And tell me, like, dude, like I didn’t know where my restitution money was going. I didn’t understand that there’s this victim compensation fund that is there, but the victims had to actually request it. You know, it’s not an automatic thing where, you know, like you’re paying into the restitution and a check is sent to the victims every, you know, month or every six months or whatever. It’s they have to keep their address up to date. They have to check that the money is there. They have to make sure that they tell the, you know, victim compensation board to make sure that they, you know, get their money. So I had a couple guys come to me and say, like, ‘You know what, I contacted my family to contact so-and-so to let them know, like, hey, there’s some money waiting for you because I’m getting charged for it. And I want to make sure that the victims get it. Instead of it being rolled into the general fund or whatever, you know that the state does.’ And I think the reason why I’m most proud of that story in particular, is because I’ve always wanted to at least make a difference in the small community that we were serving. And for me, that immediate context is the people that I was locked up with. And that’s why, like, you know, still to this day, I remember that one story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rahsaan, I was also wanting to ask you about the stories that you didn’t get to tell. Like, are there any stories that you wished you could tell, you know, while you were incarcerated but could not, because of, you know, the pressures or the censorship from others or just the limitations of the environment?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honestly, there’s stories that I wish were told, but I didn’t want to tell them. For instance, there were like prison officials and wardens that were like getting in legal troubles. And so it felt hypocritical that they weren’t being punished and they were responsible for holding us accountable. But at the same time, I’m not trying to do stories about, like, blood and crip stuff, right? Like I’m trying to do positive stories or story that’s going to make a difference in stories like, look what they’re doing, right? I wanted to do stories that like, ‘Look what we could be doing and be a better place.’ So I can’t say there’s any stories that I really held back on. There’s stories I haven’t finished yet. There’s stories I’m working on, but nothing’s stopping me with me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you know, Jesse, I have a slightly different question for you, which is just, you know, as an editor, has there ever been a time where, you know, CDCR leadership or, you know, the warden of San Quentin or now that you’ve spread to other, you know, places has, you know, shut down a story or killed a story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there was a story, one in particular that was going to go into Wall City Magazine. And it was a great story about, you know, two people finding love inside of the carceral system. I don’t know if you remember this one Rahsaan, but it was going to go in Wall City Magazine, and it was a great story written by Joe Garcia. And the lead editor on that was Kate McQueen. And it was an awesome piece, maybe about 2500 words. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the reason why it became an issue was for safety concerns. You know, inside of the California prison system, you can imagine the amount of, you know, machismo and, let’s say gender bias and stuff that exists, and a lot of the violence that is perpetuated against trans and, you know, other communities that people consider other. So it was like the administration was like, ‘We can’t let you run that story. It’s going to jeopardize these individuals, you know, if they get transferred somewhere else. San Quentin is a more, let’s say, tolerant environment, a more accepting environment. But if they ever get transferred somewhere else, you’re jeopardizing their safety. And, you know, we can’t allow that.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that was one issue where I didn’t agree with the decision. But I also understood that it’s not my responsibility to worry about people’s safety. That’s the state responsibility. And they’re seeing it from a liability perspective that I wasn’t paying attention to. I was just looking at it as a good story. They were looking at it well, there’s liability, you know, and there’s implications. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I wanted to shift us into talking a little bit about some of the things that we ran into reporting this podcast, you know, this season of On Our Watch. Rahsaan, you were an editorial consultant for On Our Watch, and you gave feedback along the way about the series. And, you know, I always just really appreciated your input. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the things that you just kind of, I think brought home for me, in the editorial room was the kind of wildness of the situation with the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. The fact that deadly force was not used, you know, in this unit and, you know, when this was transpiring. And you really wanted to, you know, help us get that across to listeners because we, you know, in our earlier drafts, we’re not doing so. Can you talk a little bit about that, like why that particular environment, why it was so kind of startling to you — who has a familiarity with the world inside prison — why the deadly force was not used as an option? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. The first thing you see, or one of the first things you notice that sounds really cold is the sign on the wall that says no warning shots, and they mean it. They don’t yell, you know, ‘Stop, break up the fight.’ They break up fights with gunfire. And so I know them to be really harsh with that weapon that Mini 14. I’ve been on the yard with people who have bullets in them from that Mini 14, and for it not to be used in that incident where the that might have been a viable way to stop somebody from getting killed? And they didn’t? It just spoke to me it like that was a setup. Like that was a huge clue to me that that’s not how that world works. I’ve actually seen the gun fired at San Quentin before, and this is like one guy had another guy in a headlock. No weapons were involved, but he just wouldn’t let him out of a headlock. And then, thank God, the officer fired into the ground. But he fired into the ground three times, right next to where the guy had the other guy in a headlock for a wrestling match, right? So I just don’t know a world where somebody’s gets stabbed to death and they don’t use that gun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And you talked about the kind of psychological impact of, like, living under that gun, like that, you know, that gun is in the control booth kind of looking over you all the time. And that really made an impact on me because I was kind of thinking about it more from the perspective of just like, ‘Oh, this is this person’s job is supposed to keep people safe.’ But there is just always this gun looking over you no matter what you’re doing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I always felt like it’s supposed to protect you, but I always felt like because they have a bad habit of hitting people of color, not using them when your lives on the line, just, like, really selective. And even in a perfect world where they’re trying to do the right thing, it’s still a matter of aim and movement and just all these different factors. I rather take my chances with the ice pick. Y’all mind y’all business. I rather take my chances with the ice pick than that gun being over my head. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. Jesse, I also called you a number of times while working on this series because I just think of you as somebody who’s got really good advice about how to deal with tricky situations, ethical decisions, and, you know, just to make sure, like, do a gut check on myself about how I’m approaching certain things. And I know you have really strong feelings about this, but like, can you tell me, you know, what are your pet peeves? What are the pitfalls that you see reporters or news organizations falling prey to, you know, when they’re reporting on prisons and incarceration? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It’s, I think it’s it’s personal to me just because, like, I know the folks inside, you know, and having been there for, you know, two decades, you get to learn people’s mannerisms and stuff and you have a different appreciation for life. So some of the things that I know, you know, when people report on the incarcerated or just on things that pertain to our living environment, there’s certain things that need to be said and told. Right? But they have repercussions for us as a population. It’s just like one thing, right? Like, for instance, they told the story about us getting, you know, Snickers bars and peanuts back in the days for Christmas. We used to get free Christmas packages, you know, that were paid for by the state. And a reporter happened to run the story and stuff like that. And it was great that the state was doing something for the incarcerated during Christmas time, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But unfortunately, when the story came out, there was so much backlash behind the state being “soft on crime” that they stopped that program. So it’s like, did you do this story as a human interest story or were you doing the story? Just because look at what taxpayer money is doing. Look at what they’re doing. They’re feeding these criminals and stuff. Right. So it’s the twist that they put on it. And sadly, you know, most of the stories that have come out of prison, you know, have been detrimental to the incarcerated, to our conditions. And everybody’s been speaking on our behalf, taking our quotes out of context. And it’s like, well, how come you just don’t let me tell the story, you know, how come you just don’t, like, report accurately what I’m trying to mention. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most reporters, they parachute into the prisons, they parachute in, get a story, run that story, and they tell you like, you know, number one is like, we want to protect people’s, you know, safety and well-being and stuff like that. That’s an illusion. That’s to appease your conscience. You can’t. You can’t guarantee anything. You know, once you take that story and run with it. Right. You can’t guarantee nobody’s safety. That’s number one. Number two, the idea of, you know, journalism doing no harm. It’s like nobody tells a story not intending to do harm. Sometimes we tell the story one and people to go to jail wanting things to change. Like that’s a reality. That’s harm. That’s going to happen to somebody’s family somewhere, somehow. You know, so when you take a story that a reporter publishes and then they don’t come back to talk to the person that they interviewed, when they don’t try to create community or relationships or stay engaged to make sure that nothing does happen to this person, like, that’s a disservice to that individual and to themselves as journalists, because now you’ve lost your credibility with the incarcerated because you told them you wanted this story to make a difference, but then you, like, let them down by just walking away after you got a Pulitzer or something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As part of Empowerment Avenue, we have help writers publish stories that are critical to CDCR and major platforms, and they have gotten flack for it. One writer in particular, he was put into a cell with a guy known for attacking people, and we feel it was on purpose. Like, you know, this guy’s attacking. You know, he keeps attacking people. He’s an old man with mental health issues. You know, this is going to happen. Sure enough, my boy got attacked. He didn’t fight back, though. He just did enough to, like, stop the attack. And they still put him in a hole even though he was the victim. Right. So we really feel like it was retaliatory. And in situations like that, your heart goes out and it’s a reminder that everybody’s not in San Quentin. Where the retaliat- I believe there’s retaliation as well, but it looks different. It doesn’t look like violence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was he was that person okay? Like what? What happened to them? Physically? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re fine. They survived it. Got hit in the head with a lock. So he survived it. And we’re trying to like right now sue to get the video footage to try to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie, I was going to ask you, was is there anything, you know, that you’ve noticed in your years of reporting about prisons, you know, blind spots that you see regularly in the media or, you know, things that you’ve learned over the years that have kind of informed the way you approach prison reporting? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I like what was said about people parachuting in. That happens a lot. I like to think that I didn’t parachute in, but, because I kept covering the stories. But I can see now that I, I relied too heavily on advocates and people on the outside. It was harder before to actually speak to people who are incarcerated. And the first experience of having good access was during Covid. And I was able to talk to people in San Quentin as things were happening. But that was relatively new and recorded on a decent line. And, so it’s it’s changed and there’s better access now, but, a lot of times people will just focus in on one issue. There’s so many systemic issues. It needs to be covered over a period of time. So you can see if anything’s changing, if anything’s coming out of your reporting. It’s nearly impossible because it’s such a closed system. And I didn’t really appreciate that until we did this podcast. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and I was thinking about the things that are being measured throughout my career, you know, the medical care, mental health care, how many visits to the therapist, dental care. You know, those were tangible things that I could measure, and even use of force going up or use of force going down. But we actually aren’t told what’s going on inside the prisons, where if a crime occurs inside, it’s not a public record. There’s so much going on, and it’s really hard for us to gauge how how dangerous it is because it’s completely being withheld from us. And, this podcast was the first time I really got to talk to correctional officers who were open about it, and also realizing that there are- they’re also people on that side caught in this, you know, silence, this code of silence that you can’t break it. They don’t agree with it. They’re aware of the problems, but they go along. And so I guess. That’s a much harder story to get at. And it took two years for us to get it. That’s, you know, and that’s maybe why people don’t get at it. But, this is breaking through that silence. The only way is to find to talk to more people who are formerly incarcerated and more people who are currently incarcerated and former staff of any stripe, whether they’re officers or psych techs or whatever they are. It’s the only way we’re going to know, really, what’s going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jesse, you know, two of the kind of main subjects of the series were these two correctional officers who became whistleblowers, who reported misconduct, you know, within the ISU, the investigative services unit that they worked. And I just wonder about your experience with that. Like, have you had experience with correctional officers who became whistleblowers, who are willing to talk to you for stories or willing to talk to reporters for the San Quentin News? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve. I’ve gotten, I mean, I know some corrections officers, now. It’s interesting to say, you know, that we’re friends to some extent. You know, it’s it would be odd, you know, to say that they weren’t, though, just because the level of intimacy that we’ve developed over time, and I think that just came with, like, developing a relationship where there was like, care and concern for the individual as a person versus just as a source for a story. And even though some of the stories that they’ve shared. Right, they go back, you know, five years, ten years, 15 years. Right. We haven’t really pursued them in a formal way, in an official way. Like if I get a story, I’ll usually pawn it off on somebody else because it’s not what we actually do at San Quentin News, or it’s something that I know is going to jeopardize, you know, that individual’s job or his safety. And it’s a story that I believe that, it’s not going to necessarily influence policy. Right. Because one of the things, right, when I hear stories of corrections officers in the struggles that they go through, you know, they go through the same issues that we go through as a culture inside of the prison system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, Rahsaan, what was your experience, you know, as a journalist incarcerated, you know, trying to get people to talk, you know, trying to get people to break that code of silence or that taboo against, you know, quote unquote, snitching?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I had different experiences. Some I never broke it, some I did, but for the most part, I wasn’t asking people to snitch on anything. Right. I allow people to be comfortable talking about the story without editing. And then I would edit in a way that would be to tell a story, but be respectful to the to their lives, to their trust in me, their faith in me. Because I always tell people, ‘I’m not TMZ, right? I’m trying to tell a story to make a difference. Right? I’m not. I’m a solution based reporter. I’m not. I’m just telling the story for entertainment. I don’t care about clicks. I don’t care about ratings. I don’t care about none of that stuff.’ I just want to put some intelligence on our world and show people like how we can deal with things in a way that’s gonna be effective. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so people trusted me with their stories because I wouldn’t put stuff out there that didn’t belong out there. That wasn’t necessary for the story. And if there was something edgy where we walking the line, I would talk about it with them and ask them did they feel comfortable? And they would have to make a grown person decision. Then when we started doing that, there were like OGs that would vouch for us. There were like there were people in the community be like, ‘Nah.’ Then an OG be like, ‘Yo, they good, I good bro. Like, you can talk to them.’ And they would get the green light to do the interview. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s really amazing. Another like really big hurdle that we dealt with and also that incarcerated people face, not just in the world of journalism, but overall is this perceived lack of credibility. And we saw this over and over again, you know, incarcerated people who had reported officers for using excessive force. But if the use of force happened in a place where there were no cameras, if there was no other tangible evidence to back up their story, it was not their story did not prevail. Jesse, can you talk a little bit about how you deal with these issues of credibility as an editor and how you advise journalists that you work with to think about these issues and help them get, you know, accountability or get justice through reporting? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It’s, very tricky. Just because there’s, a couple of things, right, that I learned when I first went into the system before I became a journalist. Right. That have carried over into how we set editorial, reporting expectations. You know, it’s like you can go to an interview, hear a story from somebody, and then if it’s an allegation of misconduct or something like that, then we ask for like, documentation, paperwork, you know, appointment dockets. We ask for corroborating evidence, you know, like maybe a witness or two. Right. Somebody that was there and stuff like that. But the other thing that we also tell our reporters is the people that they’re interviewing, like if there isn’t documentation yet, had them document it now and start lodging those, you know, grievance forms like a 602, right. Start writing the ombudsman, start sending something to the attorney general and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then that way our story isn’t just, you know, he said she said, because that also protects us. Like, I want to make sure that above all else, right, that we continue to have some institutional credibility as a publication that at least tries to fact check and, you know, try to advise the people that were interviewing to do what’s right. Because the main thing that I realize about, the outside world and how they look at prison journalism, the way that we do it, is they think that it’s always advocacy journalism. And it’s not always that, you know, but they think because it’s prison journalists producing journalism, that it has to be advocacy because we’re talking against a system. And sometimes I think what we’re actually doing is just, you know, as they say, historically, journalism happens to be the first rough draft of human history. And I think that’s what we’re doing, just chronicling, you know, what’s happening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What about you, Rahsaan? Is there, like any difference in the way that you think about credibility in, in prison or in talking to incarcerated sources versus just, you know, any source that you might talk to for a story? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I start out with talking with anyone as if they’re telling the truth, unless my instincts or they give me a reason not to believe them, or they make a claim that the world might not believe. And like Jesse said, you need proof to back it up. Not for me, but because if we’re going to print, it could be a lawsuit. Whatever I need to be able to back this up, it needs to be a fact, right? I think one of my greatest problems or greatest issues I ran into was being a freelancer. When it came to quoting incarcerated people in the yard. There were organizations that wanted like, it was just hard for them to accept a quote from an incarcerated person. They wanted, like notes and verification and just all this extra layers. But yet they’ll take a CDCR quote and run with it. Just don’t even fact check nothing, just run with it, put out propaganda. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I just felt like what makes their work better than ours? Or what as a journalist like, why would you devalue- is it me? Because like, you know, we have people on NBC that was known liars, like all kinds of journalists, on major platforms. So it’s not where you at, you know, that determines your level of integrity. And so I felt like I was almost being censored by my colleagues because you’re putting a higher standard on who’s quotable or who’s reliable. When I’m telling you I’m living right here. And I see this person’s daily walk every day. They’re reliable, right? They have a reliable track record. Right. And so who are you doubting, me? Them? Both? And what are you using to weigh credibility? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie, I know you have spent many years covering prisons, a lot of years talking to public information officers and public affairs officers for CDCR. A lot of years, you know, trying to break through the wall of bureaucracy and official speak to get real answers on things that are incredibly important, you know, both for people who are incarcerated and for people who are not incarcerated, who pay for this incredibly expensive system that we all own here in California. You know, what are your, you know, tips, and, and how to do that or if not tips, what are your frustrations with trying to do that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I’m going to be a little negative here. I don’t think you’ll ever get a specific answer to a specific question unless it’s innocuous or makes them look good. I think the way to deal with it is to get your information and to dig deep and have your facts. And like we did in the podcast, like, say, ‘This, this and this happened, what’s your response?’ So that it’s like you’re giving them enough rope. They are saying something ludicrous in response to evidence that you’re presenting in your story. So I think it’s like going every other place to get the information, stacking it up and presenting it and then saying, ‘Okay, now try to deny all this.’ And then let them, let them deny it. And they it just exposes them as for what they are, just not telling the truth. Not not being forthright. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what’s been your experience like, Jesse? I mean, I know, like when you were incarcerated, you would have to, you know, try and get response from CDCR and now, you know, as you know, kind of a publisher, like helping other journalists who are incarcerated, you know, how do you kind of bring accountability questions to, you know, CDC, our public affairs, and what are the kinds of answers you get? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s pretty interesting because the whole profession of being a public information officer, right? It’s a lot of damage control. You know, it’s a lot of damage control. It’s a lot of, you know, trying to salvage an image, you know, and I think, again, like I always preface what I say with, I try to give people a lot of grace because I understand as individuals you’re put in between a rock and a hard spot, right? When this is your job, this is what you get paid for. This is what you’re supposed to do, right? Ethically and morally, you may not agree with it, right? And you may have questions. But, you know, at the end of the day, you have to protect your institution from liability, you know? So I’m very mindful of that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, when I talk to our reporters and everybody that we’re training to be reporters inside the carceral system, it’s like, don’t expect people to validate the truth that you know. You know, like, just know that there’s going to be some version that’s going to come out that may not be the actual truth, you know, but you have to find a way to tell that story anyway. And then we have to be able to, not just bring them accountability, but also bring enough awareness and notoriety to the issue that it’s going to make a difference. Right? Because it can’t just come from one person and one source. And I think that’s been the thing that has helped us. Right? It’s not just about like the incarcerated. So our editor in chief wants to know this, you know, do you have an answer for him? It’s like, well, our editor in chief, you know, these two other publications and these five organizations, you know, are interested in what’s happening here. And all of a sudden it’s like, oh, you got more people involved and stuff, right? So it’s like there’s more eyeballs. There’s more accountability, right? Having more like institutions that produce journalism be involved with prison journalists is essential if we’re going to hold the systems accountable. Right. Because I think at the end of the day, most people want accountability and transparency, right? But it’s scary to go through that change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, Rahsaan, I know we’ve talked in the past before about like, the frustrations that you have about the kinds of stories you feel like you’re allowed to tell, or people want you to tell. Can you speak to that a little bit about just, you know, the limitations that people of the journalism people allow you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It goes back to credibility again. Right? For whatever reason, they don’t respect incarcerated people as real journalists, even though we are behind enemy lines, so to speak, and speaking from the belly of the beast, which is a tough. But certain organizations limit you to opinion pieces. Right. And so I try to be positive about that. Like we do enough opinion pieces and they’ll respect, like, we’ll build a relationship and then they’ll respect us. And then a guy will end up, you know, doing a feature piece, doing an actual reported piece. And, you know, here and there that works out, but some of us are still stuck, and some of these organizations still got it stuck in opinion piece mode. And I just think we’re so much better than that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I know that sometimes somebody might take offense that they’ve been to journalism school and got this degree and spent all this money and here comes somebody who just bootleg trained off the yard in the Journalism Guild, and they’re able to earn a living from prison or take up space in that paper that maybe these journalists feel like that belongs to me and my degree. But I think that if you want a better society, you have to get the whole story. Then we’ll be doing what we supposed to do as journalists, which I believe is a- to foster democracy, a world that’s inclusive, a world that’s better, a world that works for all of us. But if we only featuring one side of the story and we limit ourselves to this crap. This clickbait. We get what we we going to keep getting what we’ve been getting. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I do want to say that I think things are getting somewhat better. Empowerment Avenue launched during Covid when reporters couldn’t get the story except having direct access to us. And so we controlled the narrative and we were able to put stories out. But COVID’s gone and the demand for incarcerated voices has gone up. And now guys have actual journalism jobs as like editors and reporters from prison and making decent salaries. So I think the world is changing. But there’s still some organizations that don’t have incarcerated voices connected. They haven’t built that community. They don’t know where the experts are. So there’s still more work to be done. But because that the demand for our voices has grown, and formerly incarcerated people keep winning Pulitzer Prizes. So I’m super proud. Like the world wants to hear our side of the story, they tired of the same old law and order crap, right? And so I’m really going into the future hopeful, but yet still speaking loudly about all the flaws that we need to fix so we can hurry up and fix them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I think I’ll just add that what made prison journalism a force to be reckoned with in the 1800s early 1900s, up until 1991, when we had, you know 300 newspapers inside of prisons, it was community engagement, you know, like deep engagement, you know, with the prison system and, you know, just paying attention to those stories and holding the system accountable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other thing, too, like a lot of times we think that change in policy is going to change the world. And it doesn’t. You know, you can’t legislate how people feel about each other. You can’t tell me I gotta like somebody. You have to create a culture and an environment and a space where I want to help, where I want to care, where I want to be involved. Right. And I think creating spaces like this prison journalism movement that we have going on, like we’re actually trying to develop more civic engagement because people who are civically engaged care about their communities, and their communities start caring about them. So and I think that’s going to be at the core of how we create a cultural change that’s going to, you know, supersede policy, you know, by maybe five, ten years. So be mindful that, you know, like how you report on people, shows what you care for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you, Jessie and Roseanne and Julie for having this great conversation about journalism. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rahsaan Thomas:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you. I appreciate being here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jesse Vasquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Thanks for having us as colleagues on here. It’s great. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have links to Jesse and Rahsaan’s work in our episode description, as well as other resources to support prison journalism. Please continue to send tips or feedback about the series to onourwatch@KQED.org. This episode was hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey Lewis\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is also KQED’s Director of Podcasts. It was produced by Chris Egusa. Final mixing by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. Thank you to Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager, our managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Otis R. Taylor Jr., Ethan Toven-Lindsay, our Vice President of News and KQED Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. And thanks to all of you for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "mounting-backlog-of-wage-theft-claims-in-california-due-to-severe-understaffing-and-poor-training-labor-commission-audit-finds",
"title": "Major Wage-Theft Claim Backlog Due to Severe Understaffing at California Labor Agency, Audit Finds",
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"headTitle": "Major Wage-Theft Claim Backlog Due to Severe Understaffing at California Labor Agency, Audit Finds | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Severe understaffing, slow hiring, poor training and inefficient bureaucracy combine to slow California’s investigations of wage theft claims, the state auditor’s office concluded Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The result, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.auditor.ca.gov/reports/the-california-labor-commissioners-office/\">audit of the state Labor Commissioner’s Office\u003c/a>, is a backlog of 47,000 claims that take six times longer to resolve than the four months set in state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Workers are left waiting years for money they claim they are owed when their employers fail to pay the minimum wage, overtime premiums or legally required break times. Then, those who need the office’s help to collect on their back pay only get all their money back 12% of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit confirms the findings of several recent news reports on the problem, including a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/series/unpaid-wages-california-workers/\">2022 CalMatters series detailing long waits\u003c/a> and low payouts for workers making claims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit stated that it would take the Labor Commissioner’s Office wage claims unit nearly 900 staff members to fully address the backlogs and handle claims in the time required by law. That’s almost three times the positions the unit currently has — about a third of which are vacant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though auditors pinned the office’s crisis largely to the understaffing, it also found:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>The office has a unit to help workers who win their claims recover the money from resistant employers by placing liens on property, levying bank accounts or, in some cases, revoking the employers’ business licenses. However, that unit didn’t recover any of the money in most cases and often did not use all the methods available.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hiring is overseen by two different human resources departments: the Labor Commissioner and that of the larger Department of Industrial Relations. The auditor found the slow process resulted in the office losing qualified candidates. Pay is also sometimes lower than comparable state and local government jobs, the audit found, particularly for hearing officers.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The audit criticized the office for failing to adequately train new staff and supervisors and for using a case management system that was rife with inaccuracies and unreliable data, making it difficult for the office to track the progress of wage claims.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>In response to the report, Katrina S. Hagen, the industrial relations director, wrote that the office is working on improvements to the case management system and conducting a study of staff salaries to improve retention. She also noted California is passing increasingly complex new labor laws that may prevent the office from meeting case deadlines even with enough staffing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The wage claim system is decades old. In recent years, California labor officials have increasingly tried alternative enforcement methods, including workplace-wide investigations in low-wage industries with the help of worker advocates. Last week, they announced they would award $8.5 million to 17 local prosecutors to bring criminal charges against problem employers. [aside postID=news_11979626 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/SAUL-PEDROZA-26-KQED-1020x680.jpg']However, advocates said the individual claim system is still an important way for workers who believe they’ve been underpaid to recover small amounts without hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit immediately prompted labor leaders to call for the state to prioritize hiring at the Labor Commissioner’s Office. The California Labor Federation said the office should get emergency hiring authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Today’s audit findings demonstrate that California workers face an enforcement crisis,” federation leader Lorena Gonzalez said in a statement. “Our state enforcement agencies weren’t designed to handle this magnitude of labor law violations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/steven-glazer-165414\">Steve Glazer\u003c/a>, an Orinda Democrat who pushed for the audit last year in response to the news reports, lambasted the office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The California State Auditor’s report makes clear that our State Labor Commissioner is a toothless enforcer of our wage theft laws,” he said in a statement. “Immediate and decisive action to restore integrity and effectiveness to the Labor Commissioner’s office is needed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Glazer isn’t planning any bills to address the issue, his spokesperson Steven Harmon said.\u003cbr>\n[aside label='Related Coverage' tag='immigration']The release of the audit puts pressure on lawmakers and business and labor lobbyists to reach a deal in a simmering battle over another California labor law. A longtime target of the California Chamber of Commerce and other employers’ groups, the Private Attorneys General Act allows workers with private lawyers to take on the role of the state in suing their employers for alleged violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The class-action suits brought against employers generate about $200 million a year in penalties that get deposited into a fund for state labor enforcement efforts. Workers’ advocates argue those cases are also diverted from what would be an even worse backlog for the Labor Commissioner’s Office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Chamber-backed measure to repeal the law is scheduled to be on voters’ ballots in November, though business and labor groups have until late June to reach a compromise that could be passed by the Legislature instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is absolutely the worst time to even consider” repealing the law, said Alexandra Suh, co-president of the California Coalition for Worker Power and executive director of the Koreatown Immigrant Workers’ Alliance in LA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The alliance has been helping workers file wage claims for more than 30 years, and Suh said delays at the office have been a longstanding problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This audit is even more clear evidence in my mind that we need to preserve PAGA, preserve the right of workers to stand in the shoes of the state to address violations and relieve pressure on the Labor Commissioner’s Office,” Suh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Severe understaffing, slow hiring, poor training and inefficient bureaucracy combine to slow California’s investigations of wage theft claims, the state auditor’s office concluded Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The result, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.auditor.ca.gov/reports/the-california-labor-commissioners-office/\">audit of the state Labor Commissioner’s Office\u003c/a>, is a backlog of 47,000 claims that take six times longer to resolve than the four months set in state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Workers are left waiting years for money they claim they are owed when their employers fail to pay the minimum wage, overtime premiums or legally required break times. Then, those who need the office’s help to collect on their back pay only get all their money back 12% of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit confirms the findings of several recent news reports on the problem, including a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/series/unpaid-wages-california-workers/\">2022 CalMatters series detailing long waits\u003c/a> and low payouts for workers making claims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit stated that it would take the Labor Commissioner’s Office wage claims unit nearly 900 staff members to fully address the backlogs and handle claims in the time required by law. That’s almost three times the positions the unit currently has — about a third of which are vacant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though auditors pinned the office’s crisis largely to the understaffing, it also found:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>The office has a unit to help workers who win their claims recover the money from resistant employers by placing liens on property, levying bank accounts or, in some cases, revoking the employers’ business licenses. However, that unit didn’t recover any of the money in most cases and often did not use all the methods available.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hiring is overseen by two different human resources departments: the Labor Commissioner and that of the larger Department of Industrial Relations. The auditor found the slow process resulted in the office losing qualified candidates. Pay is also sometimes lower than comparable state and local government jobs, the audit found, particularly for hearing officers.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The audit criticized the office for failing to adequately train new staff and supervisors and for using a case management system that was rife with inaccuracies and unreliable data, making it difficult for the office to track the progress of wage claims.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>In response to the report, Katrina S. Hagen, the industrial relations director, wrote that the office is working on improvements to the case management system and conducting a study of staff salaries to improve retention. She also noted California is passing increasingly complex new labor laws that may prevent the office from meeting case deadlines even with enough staffing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The wage claim system is decades old. In recent years, California labor officials have increasingly tried alternative enforcement methods, including workplace-wide investigations in low-wage industries with the help of worker advocates. Last week, they announced they would award $8.5 million to 17 local prosecutors to bring criminal charges against problem employers. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>However, advocates said the individual claim system is still an important way for workers who believe they’ve been underpaid to recover small amounts without hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The audit immediately prompted labor leaders to call for the state to prioritize hiring at the Labor Commissioner’s Office. The California Labor Federation said the office should get emergency hiring authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Today’s audit findings demonstrate that California workers face an enforcement crisis,” federation leader Lorena Gonzalez said in a statement. “Our state enforcement agencies weren’t designed to handle this magnitude of labor law violations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/steven-glazer-165414\">Steve Glazer\u003c/a>, an Orinda Democrat who pushed for the audit last year in response to the news reports, lambasted the office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The California State Auditor’s report makes clear that our State Labor Commissioner is a toothless enforcer of our wage theft laws,” he said in a statement. “Immediate and decisive action to restore integrity and effectiveness to the Labor Commissioner’s office is needed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Glazer isn’t planning any bills to address the issue, his spokesperson Steven Harmon said.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The release of the audit puts pressure on lawmakers and business and labor lobbyists to reach a deal in a simmering battle over another California labor law. A longtime target of the California Chamber of Commerce and other employers’ groups, the Private Attorneys General Act allows workers with private lawyers to take on the role of the state in suing their employers for alleged violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The class-action suits brought against employers generate about $200 million a year in penalties that get deposited into a fund for state labor enforcement efforts. Workers’ advocates argue those cases are also diverted from what would be an even worse backlog for the Labor Commissioner’s Office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Chamber-backed measure to repeal the law is scheduled to be on voters’ ballots in November, though business and labor groups have until late June to reach a compromise that could be passed by the Legislature instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is absolutely the worst time to even consider” repealing the law, said Alexandra Suh, co-president of the California Coalition for Worker Power and executive director of the Koreatown Immigrant Workers’ Alliance in LA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The alliance has been helping workers file wage claims for more than 30 years, and Suh said delays at the office have been a longstanding problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This audit is even more clear evidence in my mind that we need to preserve PAGA, preserve the right of workers to stand in the shoes of the state to address violations and relieve pressure on the Labor Commissioner’s Office,” Suh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Cal State System Could Face Additional $500 Million Deficit Amid Scaled-Back State Aid and Salary Increases",
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"content": "\u003cp>Half a billion dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s how much more California State University’s budget gap will grow in two years under Gov. Gavin Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2024/05/california-budget-deficit-newsom-may-proposal/\">proposed spending plan\u003c/a> for next year. This fiscal chasm may prompt hiring freezes, raid precious reserves and bring larger class sizes and fewer courses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to do less with less,” Cal State trustee member Christopher J. Steinhauser said. “We are going to have fewer programs, fewer positions. And anyone listening to this meeting, if they think that we can do this without doing that, they’re really kidding themselves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Senior finance officers from Cal State’s chancellor’s office debuted the sobering figures at last week’s board of trustees meeting. The forecasted deficit could change — legislators and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/gavin-newsom/\">Newsom\u003c/a> have until late June to finalize a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/california-budget/\">state budget\u003c/a> that could include more money for the university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protecting Cal State, community college and University of California ongoing funding from cuts \u003ca href=\"https://www.assembly.ca.gov/media/assembly-budget-subcommittee-no-3-education-finance-20240522?time%5bmedia-element-3548%5d=2205.027925\">“wherever possible” is a priority\u003c/a>, said \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/david-alvarez-112993\">David Alvarez\u003c/a>, a Democratic assembly member from Chula Vista and chair of the Assembly’s budget subcommittee on education, last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We got to stick with the commitments we’re making to the students of California \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/hearings/257992?t=932&f=4e3a5b720eefa3f44944e5f34b23a31c\">in the budget\u003c/a>,” said \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/greg-wallis-165439\">Greg Wallis\u003c/a>, a Republican assembly member from Rancho Mirage, at the same hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if Newsom’s May budget update becomes law, Cal State would face a three-year operating deficit of $831 million through 2025–26 — more than $500 million greater than what was estimated last September, said Ryan Storm, an assistant vice chancellor at Cal State overseeing the system’s finances, at a trustees meeting last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Budget math\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The yawning gap is the result of two forces: Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2024/05/california-budget/\">heavily scaling back his promises of growing financial support\u003c/a> for Cal State due to the state’s multibillion-dollar deficit and ever-increasing labor costs fueled by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2024/02/cal-state-faculty-contract/\">recent 5% pay hikes\u003c/a> to much of the system’s roughly 60,000 unionized workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other expenses include nearly $80 million in higher health care premiums to provide insurance to its employees in 2024–25.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s May spending plans for Cal State, the UC and other state agencies are complex, prompting the Legislative Analyst’s Office\u003ca href=\"https://abgt.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-05/may-22-sub-3-agenda-and-memo.pdf#page=14\"> to call them\u003c/a> “opaque and unnecessarily complicated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After a mix of cuts in 2024–25 and far less new spending in 2025–26 than initially promised, Cal State would see new state revenues that are $470 million less than they anticipated last fall, according to \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=IzY2Y7gLmiTmGRW8&t=2257\">summary tables Storm showed the trustees\u003c/a>. A promise to backfill faculty raises to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/2024/01/cal-state-strike/\">end a strike\u003c/a> earlier this year added roughly $30 million to the system’s budget gap.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cal State was already projecting a three-year budget gap of more than $300 million last September. That was even with the assumption of nearly $500 million more in state support through 2026 and roughly $200 million more in new tuition revenue after the board approved tuition hikes of 34% across five years starting this fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Half a billion dollars is equivalent to the entire operating budget of San Diego State University, among the system’s largest campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Campus strategies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Presidents of the 23 campuses at Cal State gathered in April to quantify what the budget shortfall of more than $800 million would mean for student learning and hiring decisions. It was more of a thought exercise than an implementation plan. The presidents and \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=Yel-gg1AimqvN0Zg&t=2491\">system leadership assumed\u003c/a> no new state spending in the next two years — despite Newsom’s May plans. It also assumed workers would get raises in 2024–25 but not in 2025–26.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campuses\u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=4rNELs6nduiwNJlr&t=2655\"> are considering\u003c/a> increasing class sizes, reducing the number of available courses to reflect student demand and bringing down the number of part-time faculty and lecturers — actions that \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/SK22GFX2Kkk?si=fXw8wXV-Q0LO7mol&t=3041\">some campuses undertook\u003c/a> this spring to close a combined $138 million budget gap. Other potential cost-cutting measures include leaving various positions unfilled, not replacing staff and faculty who retire and early-retirement programs at some campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, the system is not recommending layoffs, but it expects the various hiring freezes and unfilled vacancies will lead to “a reduction of about 450 faculty and staff positions through 25–26,” Storm said last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The campuses also intend to use more than $500 million in reserves through 2025–26, depleting 22% of the system’s one-time funds intended for emergencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The April meeting also calculated a projected 2026–27 systemwide deficit of more than $200 million — the cost equivalent of 12,500 classes taught, 1,500 faculty or 1,100 managers, representing a quarter of all the managers at Cal State.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Effect on classes\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal State trustees in March learned that campuses cut or suspended 137 academic programs and other areas of study in 2024 — a huge jump compared to 2023 and 2022, \u003ca href=\"https://www.calstate.edu/csu-system/board-of-trustees/past-meetings/2024/Documents/EDPOL-binder-Mar-24-27-2024.pdf#page=28\">when only a combined 47 were cut or put on pause\u003c/a>. This occurred “in light of changing enrollment patterns, workforce trends, and resource constraints,” staff wrote to the trustees. The number of new programs is also down. Campuses regularly create additional academic offerings in response to new industries and business trends. In 2024, central office staff projected 30 new programs — below the average of about 60 in the past two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assembly budget staff \u003ca href=\"https://abgt.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-05/may-22-sub-3-agenda-and-memo.pdf#page=15\">reported last week that Cal State officials warn\u003c/a> “that timely services for students could lessen and class sizes could grow in the next two years” if the system receives less funding than anticipated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In January, when campuses were planning for a smaller budget gap in 2024–25, Long Beach State’s president, Jane Close Conoley, told CalMatters that it was planning to address its then-projected roughly $10 million deficit in various ways:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Not replacing its usual churn of 30 to 35 faculty retirements a year, savings of roughly $5 million\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Not filling open staff positions — savings of roughly $2 million to $2.5 million.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Travel freezes, putting off purchases of equipment and pulling from reserves were other options.[aside label='Related Coverage' tag='education']In other instances, professors who’ve been running labs or research projects may be asked to drop those efforts and teach classes.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>“So, another way we save money is to say, ‘It’s a great idea, but no, you have to teach,’” Conoley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A small glimmer of hope is that enrollment seems to be rebounding systemwide, which will generate more revenue for the system and help stanch the projected fiscal bleeding. The system enrolled the equivalent of 7,500 more full-time students this college year. By 2025–26, the system projects to grow its full-time enrollment by 4%, or nearly 14,000 — a change of fortune after Cal State experienced student declines the previous two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The system is also expecting one-time state money of $240 million to ride out the next few years, Storm said, part of a promise that Newsom made in January and affirmed in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But some campuses may see even less funding next year when administrators begin rerouting millions of dollars from campuses with declining enrollment to those that are growing — \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2023/01/college-enrollment-decline-csu-funding-penalty/#:~:text=So%2C%20a%20new%20plan%3A%20Any,to%20plug%20their%20enrollment%20gaps.\">a plan conceived early last year\u003c/a>. Less money could further impair the ability of campuses to attract new students, some in the system fear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Half a billion dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s how much more California State University’s budget gap will grow in two years under Gov. Gavin Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2024/05/california-budget-deficit-newsom-may-proposal/\">proposed spending plan\u003c/a> for next year. This fiscal chasm may prompt hiring freezes, raid precious reserves and bring larger class sizes and fewer courses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have to do less with less,” Cal State trustee member Christopher J. Steinhauser said. “We are going to have fewer programs, fewer positions. And anyone listening to this meeting, if they think that we can do this without doing that, they’re really kidding themselves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Senior finance officers from Cal State’s chancellor’s office debuted the sobering figures at last week’s board of trustees meeting. The forecasted deficit could change — legislators and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/gavin-newsom/\">Newsom\u003c/a> have until late June to finalize a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/california-budget/\">state budget\u003c/a> that could include more money for the university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protecting Cal State, community college and University of California ongoing funding from cuts \u003ca href=\"https://www.assembly.ca.gov/media/assembly-budget-subcommittee-no-3-education-finance-20240522?time%5bmedia-element-3548%5d=2205.027925\">“wherever possible” is a priority\u003c/a>, said \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/david-alvarez-112993\">David Alvarez\u003c/a>, a Democratic assembly member from Chula Vista and chair of the Assembly’s budget subcommittee on education, last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We got to stick with the commitments we’re making to the students of California \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/hearings/257992?t=932&f=4e3a5b720eefa3f44944e5f34b23a31c\">in the budget\u003c/a>,” said \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/greg-wallis-165439\">Greg Wallis\u003c/a>, a Republican assembly member from Rancho Mirage, at the same hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if Newsom’s May budget update becomes law, Cal State would face a three-year operating deficit of $831 million through 2025–26 — more than $500 million greater than what was estimated last September, said Ryan Storm, an assistant vice chancellor at Cal State overseeing the system’s finances, at a trustees meeting last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Budget math\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The yawning gap is the result of two forces: Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2024/05/california-budget/\">heavily scaling back his promises of growing financial support\u003c/a> for Cal State due to the state’s multibillion-dollar deficit and ever-increasing labor costs fueled by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2024/02/cal-state-faculty-contract/\">recent 5% pay hikes\u003c/a> to much of the system’s roughly 60,000 unionized workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other expenses include nearly $80 million in higher health care premiums to provide insurance to its employees in 2024–25.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s May spending plans for Cal State, the UC and other state agencies are complex, prompting the Legislative Analyst’s Office\u003ca href=\"https://abgt.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-05/may-22-sub-3-agenda-and-memo.pdf#page=14\"> to call them\u003c/a> “opaque and unnecessarily complicated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After a mix of cuts in 2024–25 and far less new spending in 2025–26 than initially promised, Cal State would see new state revenues that are $470 million less than they anticipated last fall, according to \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=IzY2Y7gLmiTmGRW8&t=2257\">summary tables Storm showed the trustees\u003c/a>. A promise to backfill faculty raises to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/2024/01/cal-state-strike/\">end a strike\u003c/a> earlier this year added roughly $30 million to the system’s budget gap.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cal State was already projecting a three-year budget gap of more than $300 million last September. That was even with the assumption of nearly $500 million more in state support through 2026 and roughly $200 million more in new tuition revenue after the board approved tuition hikes of 34% across five years starting this fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Half a billion dollars is equivalent to the entire operating budget of San Diego State University, among the system’s largest campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Campus strategies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Presidents of the 23 campuses at Cal State gathered in April to quantify what the budget shortfall of more than $800 million would mean for student learning and hiring decisions. It was more of a thought exercise than an implementation plan. The presidents and \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=Yel-gg1AimqvN0Zg&t=2491\">system leadership assumed\u003c/a> no new state spending in the next two years — despite Newsom’s May plans. It also assumed workers would get raises in 2024–25 but not in 2025–26.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campuses\u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/US5QqNnXhac?si=4rNELs6nduiwNJlr&t=2655\"> are considering\u003c/a> increasing class sizes, reducing the number of available courses to reflect student demand and bringing down the number of part-time faculty and lecturers — actions that \u003ca href=\"https://youtu.be/SK22GFX2Kkk?si=fXw8wXV-Q0LO7mol&t=3041\">some campuses undertook\u003c/a> this spring to close a combined $138 million budget gap. Other potential cost-cutting measures include leaving various positions unfilled, not replacing staff and faculty who retire and early-retirement programs at some campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, the system is not recommending layoffs, but it expects the various hiring freezes and unfilled vacancies will lead to “a reduction of about 450 faculty and staff positions through 25–26,” Storm said last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The campuses also intend to use more than $500 million in reserves through 2025–26, depleting 22% of the system’s one-time funds intended for emergencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The April meeting also calculated a projected 2026–27 systemwide deficit of more than $200 million — the cost equivalent of 12,500 classes taught, 1,500 faculty or 1,100 managers, representing a quarter of all the managers at Cal State.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Effect on classes\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal State trustees in March learned that campuses cut or suspended 137 academic programs and other areas of study in 2024 — a huge jump compared to 2023 and 2022, \u003ca href=\"https://www.calstate.edu/csu-system/board-of-trustees/past-meetings/2024/Documents/EDPOL-binder-Mar-24-27-2024.pdf#page=28\">when only a combined 47 were cut or put on pause\u003c/a>. This occurred “in light of changing enrollment patterns, workforce trends, and resource constraints,” staff wrote to the trustees. The number of new programs is also down. Campuses regularly create additional academic offerings in response to new industries and business trends. In 2024, central office staff projected 30 new programs — below the average of about 60 in the past two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assembly budget staff \u003ca href=\"https://abgt.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-05/may-22-sub-3-agenda-and-memo.pdf#page=15\">reported last week that Cal State officials warn\u003c/a> “that timely services for students could lessen and class sizes could grow in the next two years” if the system receives less funding than anticipated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In January, when campuses were planning for a smaller budget gap in 2024–25, Long Beach State’s president, Jane Close Conoley, told CalMatters that it was planning to address its then-projected roughly $10 million deficit in various ways:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Not replacing its usual churn of 30 to 35 faculty retirements a year, savings of roughly $5 million\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Not filling open staff positions — savings of roughly $2 million to $2.5 million.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Travel freezes, putting off purchases of equipment and pulling from reserves were other options.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In other instances, professors who’ve been running labs or research projects may be asked to drop those efforts and teach classes.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>“So, another way we save money is to say, ‘It’s a great idea, but no, you have to teach,’” Conoley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A small glimmer of hope is that enrollment seems to be rebounding systemwide, which will generate more revenue for the system and help stanch the projected fiscal bleeding. The system enrolled the equivalent of 7,500 more full-time students this college year. By 2025–26, the system projects to grow its full-time enrollment by 4%, or nearly 14,000 — a change of fortune after Cal State experienced student declines the previous two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The system is also expecting one-time state money of $240 million to ride out the next few years, Storm said, part of a promise that Newsom made in January and affirmed in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But some campuses may see even less funding next year when administrators begin rerouting millions of dollars from campuses with declining enrollment to those that are growing — \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2023/01/college-enrollment-decline-csu-funding-penalty/#:~:text=So%2C%20a%20new%20plan%3A%20Any,to%20plug%20their%20enrollment%20gaps.\">a plan conceived early last year\u003c/a>. Less money could further impair the ability of campuses to attract new students, some in the system fear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"mindshift": {
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
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"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
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"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
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},
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