Cursed All Tabs: Portals, Creepy Caves, Jumpscares and Haunted Objects

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In this special Halloween edition of Close All Tabs, we’re diving into creepypastas: horror stories that spread online until they become urban legends on their own. What happened to the girl who fell into a mirror in 2001? Did Ted the Caver ever come back to the surface? Was the Momo challenge real? And finally, we venture into eBay’s haunted doll marketplace … where we may have ended up with a spirit wreaking havoc on the production of this episode. It’s a ghoulish good time.

• Hallie Tut, visual effects artist, and digital content creator
• Craig Groshek, horror author and founder of Chilling Tales for Dark Nights
• Ted Hegemann, author of “Ted the Caver”
• Rena Lee, social media manager
• Sophia Bruno, educational nonprofit coordinator
• Paranormal Teej, haunted doll collector & paranormal investigator

• How She Creates VFX Shots That Break Your Brain — Hallie Tut, Youtube
• Ted the Caver — Ted Hegemann
• Momo (Creepypasta) — Villains Wiki
• Momo Challenge Is Everything That’s Wrong with the Internet — Lance Ulanoff, Medium
• Ubume — Yokai.com
• How ‘Momo’, a global social media hoax about a paranormal threat to kids, morphed into a U.S. viral phenomenon — Ben Collins and Shoshana Wodinsky, NBC News
• Finally, the truth behind the ‘haunted’ Dybbuk Box can be revealed — Inverse
• The witches of eBay: Inside the industry selling haunted items online — Daniella Scott, Cosmopolitan
• The Backrooms: How Kane Parsons turned creepypasta into cinema — Jack Mills, Dazed
• The Eerie Backstory Behind Backrooms — Nadira Goffe, Slate
• Revisiting Creepypasta, the Social Horror Craze That Launched Slenderman — Zac Thompson, VICE

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

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This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.

Morgan Sung: Happy spooky season tabbies. Is there a creepypasta you can’t stop thinking about? Or any internet trend, tech subculture, or online oddity keeping you up at night? Well, now you can ask Close All Tabs to investigate! Go to KQED.org/podcasts/closealltabs to submit your question.

Just a note, this episode contains mentions of suicide and horror themes so listen with care — or skip this one and come back next week.

Let me tell you a story about one of the most terrifying moments of my life. I was in middle school, hanging out in a family friend’s basement with a bunch of other kids, when my friend’s older brother asked us if we wanted to see something. We crowded around his laptop where he pulled up a YouTube video, titled “Entry #1.” It was just a few seconds of shaky footage, shot through a window from inside a house, of a lanky, suited figure lurking near the door. No sound…which made it feel more unsettling.

My friend’s brother told us that some guy online found all of these videos in his friend’s camera and started posting them to YouTube. He hit play on the next one. This had sound — some guy talking while he drove down a dark street. Not much is visible in this video…except the blurry silhouette of that same lanky figure, looming in the distance. 

Clip from Marble Hornets: I saw this really tall guy stand in the middle of the street, just completely still. For whatever reason, this really set off Rocky, and he got really scared. He wouldn’t move and he kept on pulling on his leash to go back home. 

Morgan Sung: Back then, everything on the internet seemed real. My friends and I took all of it at face value. So we believed the YouTube comments that said they’d seen this figure too. My friend’s brother left, but the rest of us were totally hooked. So we hit play on another video. This was more shaky footage, again shot through a window from inside a house. The same figure was lurking, closer this time. The camera finally focused on an unnaturally pale, bald head. It had no face at all, just smooth white skin and hollow contours where eyes and a mouth and a nose should be. And then it turned to face the viewer, as if it was honing in on us. Then, my friend’s brother, from the top of the stairs, called out, “Who wants to meet Slenderman?” And shut off the basement lights.

The legend of Slenderman started in 2009, when someone posted black and white photos of children on a playground, seemingly oblivious to the spindly creature looming over them. The captions alluded to a string of child abductions from the 1980s. It was a submission for a Photoshop contest of paranormal happenings, which later inspired the YouTube series, Marble Hornets. That was the supposedly found footage that we watched in my friend’s basement.

I totally fell for it. For a good year after, I was terrified to look through windows at night in case Slenderman was peering back in. That was my first experience with a creepypasta. The word “creepypasta” is a play on “copypasta” — which is a portmanteau of “copy-paste.” They’re blocks of text that become memes because they’re copied and reposted so often. Creepypastas are online urban legends, Horror stories that start on forums and comment sections that spread across the internet and take on lives of their own.

Welcome to Cursed All Tabs. This is our very special Halloween episode, where, instead of one deep dive, we have a bunch of spooky stories for you. These are tales of the paranormal kept alive on the internet. A girl stuck in a portal, caving gone wrong, an entity that might get you through the screen, and the eBay listings for haunted dolls. So, gather around our digital campfire and if you’re easily scared, don’t listen in the dark. Ready? 

This is Cursed All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung — tech journalist and your chronically online nightmare — here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. Let’s open our first tab and get into our first spooky story: “The girl in the mirror.” 

Picture this: It’s the middle of the night. You can’t sleep. You’re doom-scrolling. It’s way past your bedtime and you’ve been awake for a little too long. So, in the darkness of your room, shadows start to take on the shape of strange figures. You catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror, barely visible in the moonlight, and for a second, it seems like the room and the reflection is deeper. Like it goes on forever. And then…mid-scroll, you come across this video. 

Clip from Hallie Tut: There’s something really strange going on here, and if something ends up happening to me, I just hope that this video can maybe explain it.

Morgan Sung: It’s a video of a teenager recording herself on an old-school, hand-held camcorder. The caption says it’s found footage dating back to January 2001. The camera sweeps across her bedroom — a matching set of yellow furniture, frilly curtains, pink walls, very 90s — and settles on an antique mirror propped up on a chair. It faces another full-length mirror mounted to the wall. 

Clip from Hallie Tut: Okay, so I have these two mirrors in my room. As you can see, they’re pretty normal looking mirrors, but I was cleaning and I had them kind of set up like this, and I noticed something really weird. Just watch. 

Morgan Sung: The girl places the camcorder on the bed and films herself putting her hand on one of the mirrors, but she passes straight through the glass into another world. 

Clip from Hallie Tut: See, when you look through the mirror into the other one, it becomes like a window. And there’s this huge warehouse, grocery store, or something down there. But wait, it gets even crazier. Watch this. Three, two, one. 

Morgan Sung: She fully jumps through the mirror and is transported into what looks like a fully stocked supermarket. But the aisles go on forever and there’s nobody else in sight. 

Clip from Hallie Tut: Woah. What the hell? What is this place? Hello? How far does it go? 

Morgan Sung: She begins running, and then… 

Clip from Hallie Tut: Oh shit. 

Morgan Sung: The camcorder zaps back to her room mid-air before bouncing onto her frilly white bed. It faces another mirror and in the reflection, the room looks empty. The girl is nowhere to be seen. You’re thoroughly creeped out so you start scouring the comments. Legend has it…she’s still missing. 

Clip from ItsNickHoliday: A video a girl recorded in her bedroom in 2001, right before she went missing, has resurfaced and now is going viral. 

Clip from Generalist Authority: The camera was later found on her bed. She has not been located. 

Clip from brookesobasic: I don’t know if people know this or not, but facing two mirrors together is something you just shouldn’t do. And it’s said to open portals or bring in really bad energies or spirits — sometimes good — but usually bad. 

Morgan Sung: So what happened to this girl who fell through a mirror over 20 years ago and was never heard from again? What is it about that abandoned, endless supermarket that feels both so familiar and so unsettling? 

Hallie Tut: I think it — it just really is something where you don’t normally stay very long in a place like that. 

Morgan Sung: That’s Hallie Tutte, a VFX artist. 

Hallie Tut: Liminal spaces are kind of these transitional places where usually it would be somewhere that’s filled of people going from point A to point B when a place that usually is filled with people is now completely empty — that gives it that eerie feeling because you never usually are used to seeing it completely abandoned like that. So if you got trapped there, it just brings out this strange feeling in you, I think. 

Morgan Sung: Halle is the real girl in the video. And don’t worry, she did not get stuck in the portal despite what some internet conspiracy theorists might think. She’s always been fascinated by liminal horror — stories that take place in vacant, in-between spaces, like the internet lore that inspired the movie Backrooms. 

Hallie Tut: I grew up in a town that didn’t have a lot of people in it, and there’d be like these old shopping malls where no one would be around and all the stores are gone. And I always just loved the feeling of being in those spaces, like empty food courts. Me and my friends would just like to kind of hang out there. And I guess when I got into 3D modeling, it was a really fun way to get to build that feeling again by creating those spaces. And it’s something that’s really easy to accomplish in 3D and make it feel very real, very quickly because it’s just a lot of walls and lights and rooms. 

Morgan Sung: And that video wasn’t filmed in 2001, but actually made in 2023. Hallie was inspired by found footage movies like The Blair Witch Project. She wanted to create something that felt like it was from the early 2000s, but using modern equipment. 

Hallie Tut: I shot it completely by myself in my room and it was actually shot on a Sony camera on a tripod and then any of the handheld stuff is all fake. The mirror that she’s shooting into is fake and to create that infinite Walmart effect, I went to my local Walmart late at night when it feels like a liminal space and I was able to kind of scan all of the shelves and create these 3D models that I then brought into, like a software like Blender, and created this infinite world with it. And yeah, it’s shot in my real bedroom. I live with my grandparents, so this used to be my aunt’s room. And everything in it feels very of the time period that I was trying to make that video set in, so it worked out really well that way. 

Morgan Sung: The video got a lot of views when she first posted it, but didn’t really go viral until a year later, when other influencers reposted it, speculating about what really happened to the girl in the mirror. 

Hallie Tut: Even one of my art school teachers had sent me a link on Facebook to like a conspiracy channel where he’d seen it and asking if it was me. And that video had maybe 3 million views and thousands of comments, people’s discourse about whether it was real. Having remembered seeing this video from when they were younger, like in the early 2000s, people had made up like memories of it. Like kind of that Mandela effect was happening where people had — had this memory of knowing this story of this girl who went missing years prior to when I posted the video.

So it was — it was just going all over the place online and I kind of started to go down a rabbit hole of Reddit posts about it and different names they were making up for the girl in the video. Like in one spot her name was Violet and the video was titled “Violet’s Playtime” or something strange like that. And then people were kind of using that name to discuss it in different forums. So just gets it away from you. 

Morgan Sung: This year, Hallie posted a video explaining that she was the creator of the video and that none of it was real. Even then, the conspiracies continued to spread. 

Hallie Tut: When I made the video talking about how it was fake and I explained how I had made it and how viral it had went around the internet, but trying to claim that, in fact, it was me in my room by myself and I’m here and I am alive — a lot of people in those comments were saying, “The government made her do this,” or “She’s AI and this is a cover up — like this is the CIA cover up for this girl who’s still missing. She’s just — this is just a plant. This girl trying to pretend she’s the girl so they can keep hiding this conspiracy from us.”

Morgan Sung: It’s wild how drastically the internet has changed since 2023. AI videos back then were nowhere near as convincing. 

Hallie Tut: I think it would be a lot harder now with AI and even just the VFX work that was put into that. I don’t know if it would feel worth it anymore because of the way that people would just write it off. That video was definitely a labor of love for the technical challenges that I had to go through to make it look realistic and I think people now just won’t appreciate the craft that goes into something like that because they’ll just write it all off as AI.

So, I don’t know if I’d ever do one quite in the same way. I think if I had a really good story that I wanted to tell, and it was more based on just a really horror story, I might try again. But in a way that was more of a fun technical challenge for me to make it convincing. And in today’s day and age. That’s no longer really a worthy challenge. 

Morgan Sung: That’s so depressing. Have we killed creepypastas with AI? 

Hallie Tut: I think creepypastes will live on, especially the more fictional stories that can’t be real things but that people really wish were real. 

Morgan Sung: Hallie herself is still making creepy horror content, pushing herself with new technical challenges and VFX tools. But the story she put out into the world three years ago continues to spread and morph beyond what she ever created. 

Hallie Tut: It is essentially a creepypasta now, and the creepypasta might be well known by people, but it’s never going to really come back to me, which I kind of appreciate. 

Morgan Sung: If, during the witching hour, you place two mirrors facing each other, you might open a ghostly passage. Legend has it that, if you look long enough, the infinite reflections will dissolve into all sorts of in-between places — sprawling underground train stations, sterile hospital waiting rooms, school hallways lined with pristine lockers. They will almost always be eerily empty, as if time comes to a standstill there. And sometimes, you might catch a glimpse of a cavernous, eternal supermarket — and the pink-haired teenager doomed to wander its empty aisles.

That story was brought to us by producer Maya Cueva. Unsettled yet? Well, we’re just getting started. The next internet scary story we have for you is actually the one that started it all. It’s known as the very first creepypasta, dating back to 2001. This tale comes from our very own senior editor, Chris Egusa. You might wanna turn on the lights for this one. Okay, let’s open a new tab. Who is Ted the Caver? 

Chris Egusa: In early 2001, a series of posts started appearing on an obscure Angelfire website, a site-building platform from the early internet. The page was bare bones. Basic HTML, a black background, and at the top, a salmon-colored title: “Welcome to the Page of Ted.” The posts were journal entries. The author? Anonymous, except for that first name: Ted.

Over the course of a few months, Ted posted a detailed account of a series of caving trips he took with a friend he identified only as “B,” to explore a previously unentered passage in a spot they called “Mystery Cave.” According to the first entry, the pair had found a hole in the rock wall deep inside the cave. It was only four to five inches across, but they knew it had to lead somewhere because of a steady stream of air that blew through it.

The first journal entry included a link to a grainy photo of the hole. It was uneven in shape, and the rock it went through looked several inches thick. There was a glove tucked inside the hole for scale. The entry went on. Peeking through the hole with a mini maglite, they could see a tight tunnel that opened up after a few feet. They could feel the air blowing past, and they could hear something else: a low rumbling that came and went.

Ted and B brushed aside the strange details. They were too excited at the prospect of finding their way into a completely unexplored passage. So they made a plan: come back with hand tools and a cordless drill, break up the solid rock, and widen the hole until it was big enough to squeeze through.

Ted named the passage Floyd’s Tomb, as a nod to Floyd Collins — an early 20th century cave explorer who got trapped and died as he attempted to enlarge a small tunnel in a cave system in Kentucky.

Every few weeks through early 2001, a new post would appear on the website. They detailed the slow, grueling work of drilling and chiseling through rock until the batteries on their lights and tools ran out. Since the cave was a good distance from where they lived, Ted and B would stay at a nearby motel, recharge their batteries and bodies, and continue working the next day before heading home.

Occasionally, Ted would mention some odd detail. Something unsettling. In one post, he described the wind as getting louder, a howl at that point. The rumbling had become more frequent, and he noted that it seemed to be emanating from deeper in the cave. Then he’d move on, refocusing on the task at hand. Each post linked more photos, documenting the progression of the hole. And as the entries went on, the details got stranger.

On a trip in February, they brought B’s Jack Russell Terrier into the cave. Typically excitable and enthusiastic, she became edgy and began to whimper as she approached the hole. Her hair stood on end and she refused to get any closer. Later that same trip, B heard a scratching, grinding sound coming from inside the hole. When he got Ted’s attention to listen, it stopped.

On another trip in early March, Ted was kneeling at the wall, drilling — ear plugs in and safety glasses on. Over the noise of the drill, he heard a high-pitched sound. He pulled his earplug out just in time to hear an ear-piercing scream coming from inside the hole, echoing through the darkness. In his journal, he described it as a cross between a man screaming in fear and a cougar screaming in pain.

The next day, the two couldn’t stop thinking about the sound. But they rationalized it as some kind of animal and decided to continue on, focused on getting to the other side. They’d come too far to give up. In the next entry, Ted explained that they’d widened the hole enough to squeeze through. It was so tight that Ted had to turn his head to the side and wedge himself in with his arms pinned at his sides. As he went further, he could feel the rock pressing into his back. The only way forward was to exhale all of his breath and push with his feet. So that’s what he did.

Exhale. Scoot an inch or two. Breathe in shallowly. Exhale again. Scoot further.

The photo linked in that entry showed Ted wedged into the crevice wearing a black bandana, head cocked to the right. The flash lit up jagged rocks littering the floor beneath him. Then the passage began to open up. Ted was able to crawl forward, emerging for the first time into the untouched cavern.

The entries kept coming. And, without spoiling the rest of the story, things escalated from there. Ted found strange hieroglyphic markings on the cave wall, an unnaturally round rock that seemed to be moving on its own. A smell he described as damp, rotting, rancid, putrid, death, drifting up from deeper in the cave. Then, in the deepest section of the tunnel, he encountered something. Something that seemed to follow him.

The last entry on the site was from Ted, writing the morning of his final trip into the cave. By then, he was badly shaken and suffering from lucid nightmares. He was determined to figure out what was going on, once and for all. And then, the entries stopped. Even years later, nothing.

But the Angelfire site stayed up, preserving Ted’s story. The collection of entries — nine in total, clocking in at over 25,000 words — is now known as Ted the Caver, and many consider it to be the very first creepypasta. 

Craig Groshek: At the time when I first read it, there was nothing like it. 

Chris Egusa: Craig Groshek is a horror author who runs Chilling Tales for Dark Nights, a company and YouTube channel devoted to creepypasta, along with several podcasts. He first came across Ted the Caver in high school. 

Craig Groshek: You’re just surfing the internet and all of a sudden you come across this poor guy, you know, getting trapped with unspeakable horrors in the underground. And the story very much leaves you feeling that you don’t know what happened to him. 

Chris Egusa: At the center of a lot of the online discussion was one question — was it real? The story had all these supernatural elements, but it also felt believable. The gear, the technical descriptions of caving, the photos. It read like a real caving journal. 

Craig Groshek: Just when you thought there’s a chance that this was baloney, he threw up a photo. Critical thinking aside, that inclusion of photos drew you right back in, and it made everything that came after it even scarier. And of course we were experiencing this in real time. If you were there when it happened, this wasn’t a story you picked up years later. This was a man this was actually happening to, and you couldn’t do anything about it. It was like watching someone sleepwalk into traffic. 

Chris Egusa: But you couldn’t ask Ted. For years, no one could confirm who he was, or whether his name was even Ted. Authorship of the story was disputed, with several people taking credit. Eventually, the real Ted emerged and began posting intermittently on some online forums. In 2015, Craig decided to track him down in person. 

Craig Groshek: All I had to go on was the original post and some forums on the internet where he had appeared. And the way I found him was via reverse image search. He used the same picture, I believe he was standing on train tracks, maybe with his dog, and it was the same pictures of him on every forum that he used. I tracked him down to a disc golf course. I had the guy at the country club there, because they have a golf course and a disc golf and I had them hand Ted my information on a cocktail napkin. And the next thing you know, Ted’s calling me. 

Chris Egusa: Craig commissioned Ted to write an original horror story for an anthology he was putting together. It was only the second horror story Ted had ever written. 

Ted Hegemann: Hi, my name is Ted Hegemann. I am the author of the story that is now known as “Ted the Caver.” 

Chris Egusa: His story about the terrors lurking in Mystery Cave was his first. Ted is now 62 and lives in Utah. These days, he spends his free time playing disc golf. It’s the latest in a string of obsessions. 25 years ago, he was obsessed with caving. And, as it turns out, a lot of the story is based on real experiences. 

Ted Hegemann: So, my buddy, Brad and I — who is B in the story — we went out to this cave that’s right on the border of Utah and Nevada. 

Chris Egusa: Ted and Brad really did open up an entrance to a new passage. 

Ted Hegemann: It took us numerous trips, I think eight trips before I was able to get past the opening. 

Chris Egusa: The squeeze through Floyd’s tomb? Ted says it happened just how he wrote it. 

Ted Hegemann: I was literally exhaling my lungs and scooting with my feet, with my arms down to my side to keep my shoulders down. 

Chris Egusa: Technically, he did the squeeze twice. By the second time, they had opened the passage up a little wider, and he was able to fit through with slightly more ease. 

Ted Hegemann: I was keeping a journal the entire time — a caving journal — as well as updating friends and family, you know, as to the progress. It was kind of a neat thing. And when we were done, I thought rather than telling everyone about it, I’ll just upload my journal on a — find a website — and put it up. And then I had the idea that it’d be kind of fun to embellish a little bit. And so that’s where the story came from. So much of it is just directly out of my caving journal. And then the creepy parts were invented, of course. But the idea didn’t come until after we had gone into the cave. 

Chris Egusa: A lot of the eerie details were rooted in his actual experience, too. Like the air blowing through the hole. 

Ted Hegemann: We knew about the hole because we would stop there, because the wind blew out and you generally worked up a little bit of a sweat getting to that point in the cave. So we would stop and just let the cool air cool us off. 

Chris Egusa: And the low rumbling. 

Ted Hegemann: We figured it was I-80 — just trucks or whatever — because it wasn’t constant. It was just every once in a while. 

Chris Egusa: And they really brought a Jack Russell terrier into the cave. 

Ted Hegemann: Demon dog, oh my goodness, it nipped at me so many times. 

Chris Egusa: But the part about it whimpering and refusing to go near the hole, that was embellished. 

Ted Hegemann: It was having a good time running around exploring. 

Chris Egusa: I asked Ted at what point the story became complete fiction. I’m thinking of — there’s the terrifying scream that you both hear. 

Ted Hegemann: The scream. The grinding noise that we would hear inside, the smell when I went in there, and the round rock. There was no round rock, sadly. Oh, and the little hieroglyph thing that was in there. 

Chris Egusa: It took Ted almost a year to write the whole thing. 

Ted Hegemann: And at one point, I gave up on it. I thought, “Oh, this is dumb. Who’s going to want to read this?” But then I sucked it up and thought, “Yeah, at least finish it. And then who cares? You know, if nothing happens.” But yeah, little did I know. 

Chris Egusa: He posted it, one update at a time, through the spring of 2001, and he knew the story had attracted a decent readership. 

Ted Hegemann: I did have a hidden counter on there and got up into the tens of thousands of views. 

Chris Egusa: The story simmered underground, making its way through different communities, but never going viral the way things might today. And then, a few years after he posted the story, someone sent him a link to a caving forum where it was being discussed. After that, he started digging around. 

Ted Hegemann: That was one of the cooler weekends of my life. I remember our internet was really slow. So I went to the library and I just kept searching and found all these forums where they’re talking about it. And it just blew me away. How many people liked it. So many people said it scared them to death in very colorful ways. It was just so fun to know that that people were reading it and enjoying it. 

Chris Egusa: For Ted, who’s not even a big horror fan, the fact that this story he posted 25 years ago keeps coming up is a lasting source of enjoyment. 

Ted Hegemann: I just discovered this like last year. I started Googling and I found all of these YouTube channels where they talk about the story. They’ll read it and then give their thoughts about it. And I mean, one of them had three million views. It just kind of blew me away. I think it’s just a blast. I love it. 

Chris Egusa: So is Ted the Caver the first creepypasta? As with most things on the internet, it’s hard to pinpoint. The term creepypasta itself came into use years later. And some people point to the genre’s similarities to chain emails from the 90s, which pre-date Ted’s story. But Craig Groshek says Ted the Caver certainly has a claim to the title. 

Craig Groshek: If you’re looking at the Mount Rushmore of creepypasta, of internet-based horror, Ted the Caver’s is definitely up there. In terms of storytelling — the immersion, the fact that you felt like this was a real person that may have actually disappeared, and for years that remained uncontested — you have to put it up there just for that. He was really a pioneer without realizing that’s what he was. 

Chris Egusa: More widely known creepypastas like Slenderman and more recently Backrooms, which was turned into a Hollywood movie this year, all have their roots in Ted the Caver. 

Craig Groshek: I think you can trace it to a lot of these things, but Backrooms being the most recent example. I don’t know that you can say these things wouldn’t have existed without Ted, but you can’t say that they would either. This entire genre started with a couple of people copying and pasting creepy stuff to try to get a rise out of somebody. And Ted absolutely leaned into that at the end. He knew there were people that thought he was dead and he didn’t even care. Thanks, Ted. 

Chris Egusa: When Ted Hegemann posted his story on Angelfire, he could have never anticipated where it would go. It was adapted into a movie in 2008 called Living Dark: The Story of Ted the Caver. And as for Mystery Cave? It’s been officially mapped out now. 

Ted Hegemann: It’s called “Interstate Cave” and thankfully they did call that passage “Floyd’s Tomb” so it’s official on the map now. And DeWalt’s Dig, it was the opening, because we were using DeWalt tools. 

Chris Egusa: Craig says that for all the ways storytelling has changed over the years with digital media, in some ways, it hasn’t changed at all. Instead of sitting around a physical campfire, we now sit around a digital one — on message boards, comment sections, and Discord chat rooms. 

Craig Groshek: It started with one man telling his story around what is essentially a digital campfire. And as time has gone on, more and more people have gathered around that fire. And 20 plus years later people are still telling that story and that is a testament to how believable it was, how well written it was how immersive it was and how well it tapped into a primal fear that a lot of people have — whether it’s of the unknown, of the dark or not knowing what you can’t see. And that’s why I think it has stood the test of time. 

Morgan Sung: That was senior editor Chris Egusa. One thing about me: You will never catch me caving. Ever. The idea of squeezing into an underground passage where you can get stuck or lost or run out of air sounds hellish enough. And there might be an entity down there? No, thank you! Between whatever’s in the caves and Slenderman lurking in the woods, it seems safer to just stay inside. But the monsters from creepypastas can get you even if you never log off.

After the break, we have a story about the creature haunting your screens. But first, we wanted to remind you that Close All Tabs depends on listeners like you to keep us going. To become a member and support the show, go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. Okay, when we’re back, what do you know about Momo? Stick around.

Welcome back to the Close All Tabs special spooky story time. This next one is about an entity that I hate looking at, even as a full-grown adult. This creepypasta retelling comes from our very own intern, Lauren Yoon. Let’s open another new tab. The legend of Momo. 

Lauren Yoon: Picture a gaunt, paper-skinned woman with a protruding neck and bulging eyes. Her jet-black hair stringy to match a thousand-eye stare that could kill. She looks uncanny. The most important feature of the infamous viral image: she holds a smile that spans cheek-to-cheek in the shape of a “V.” Yep, that’s right. My internet urban legend is Momo. 

Clip from Fandom: Do you want a surprise? Look in their eyes. I won’t lie, you’re going to die. 

Lauren Yoon: It’s 2019. Musical.ly had just become TikTok. Everyone was doing the woah, and Avengers: Endgame was in theaters. And Momo was threatening harm to all who came across her. I remember Momo being passed around between my friend group, joking she would haunt them while they slept or something. Here’s my friend, Sophia, talking about Momo. 

Sophia Bruno: I was very much afraid of it in the sense that I just thought it was a weird-looking picture that my friend introduced me to because I think she was like, “Oh Momo’s gonna get you” and I was like, “What is Momo?” And then she showed me. And my friends and I would mostly joke about it like, “Momo is gonna get you whatever” but in terms of the real-life stories I mean I believed them and I believed — I feel like there was a mysterious lore around it like it would just kind of you and like attach itself to you. 

Lauren Yoon: In reality, I also hated Momo. If I was joking about it with friends, it was mostly because laughter is the best defense mechanism against fear. What scared me the most were stories of Momo contacting you over the phone and telling you to do horrible things to yourself or others. It became known in mainstream media as “the Momo challenge.” The idea was that kids would challenge each other to make contact with Momo, sparking her wrath. She was even rumored to have reached kids’ videos on YouTube, where her face would pop up out of nowhere during an episode of Peppa Pig.

The rumors caused a media frenzy, and Momo became a sensationalized, quote, danger to children. The Post, The Today Show, and a bunch of other news outlets around the world warned concerned parents about the internet legend. They encouraged parents to put restrictions on social media and YouTube for their kids — something parents should probably be doing anyway — without evidence that the Momo challenge was real.

Surprise! It wasn’t.

There has been no evidence to show that Momo or anyone posing as the character actually contacted people, let alone children. YouTube denied any claims of Momo popping up in the middle of their videos, too.

So where did Momo even come from? Well, she’s a picture of a sculpture called “Mother Bird,” created by Japanese artist Keisuke Aiso. If we zoom out of their original picture, you can clearly see the figure, propped up on a stand in an art gallery. The face we all know and…hate? Attached to a human chest with two huge bird legs. Keisuke based her off of this Japanese folklore called “Ubume,” a version of which translates to “child-snatching bird.” Makes sense.

The image first spread on a Chinese social dating app called Momo, and that’s how the Momo we know today was born. So how did she spread so fast? And so far? I mean, a police station in Northern Ireland issued a statement and Kim Kardashian posted on Instagram, both figures warning parents about this dangerous, quote, challenge. My friend Rena has a theory that this all happened because the internet was a little newer to us at the time. AI wasn’t generating images like they are today, so we took a lot of things at face value. 

Rena Lee: So we didn’t have this backpedaling of, “Is this AI, is this real?” A lot of information and media that we were fed at the time, it was easier to believe, “Oh my God, this looks so realistic. This has to be a real picture.”

Lauren Yoon: I personally think it’s a combination of this naivete, plus the misinformation being spread by major national news outlets. The public sphere unfortunately feeds off of fear — talk about the horror of it all, right? — and Momo was the scapegoat for millennials and boomers concerned about what new dangers the internet proposed for their children.

Keisuke destroyed the original sculpture not too long after it was created because it started rotting. It was made of materials that weren’t meant to last long. The only part of the sculpture remaining is its eyeball. Here is an excerpt of Keisuke’s interview with The Sun from 2019. He’s speaking through a translator. 

Clip from The Sun: I got rid of Momo, so it is no longer here with me. I believe it no longer exists in this world. 

Lauren Yoon: He was pretty horrified by the way his art became so misunderstood and taken out of context. I wonder if people today would be as scared as they were five, six years ago when we weren’t burdened with the constant doubt that comes with the images we see online today. The landscape of internet paranoia has changed, and so I wonder if the Momo challenge could be recreated in this day and age. I even miss the mystery she brought to my life, something that has slowly dissipated as I trust the internet less and less.

Momo may have been a hoax, but her impact was real. The image of her bulging eyes and wide smile is still burned into the back of my skull. And when I’m trying to fall asleep at night, and I open my eyes to the dark corner of my room, she’s the figure I imagine standing there…waiting for my eyes to close again. 

Morgan Sung: That story was brought to you by our intern, Lauren Yoon. We’ll have more on Momo in our further reading, but before you hit that link, consider this your jumpscare warning.

Anyway, I have one more story for you. It starts with an eBay listing for an antique wine cabinet with strict warnings to never open it, lest you unleash misfortune upon anyone who comes in contact with the box. But the real horror story here is disappointingly mundane. Let’s open one last tab. The haunted doll scam market.

One of the most infamous haunted objects was actually sold on eBay. In 2003, Kevin Mannis listed an antique wine cabinet with an unusually detailed description. He had picked it up at an estate sale, and the woman who sold it to him said it belonged to her grandmother, a Holocaust survivor. Her grandmother had been insistent that her family never, ever open the box. She said it contained a spirit called a dybbuk.

Did Kevin heed the warning? No. He brought it back to his workshop and opened it right up — ignoring the creepy locks of hair and carved Hebrew prayers inside. A series of tragedies followed. His mother had a stroke when she opened the box. His siblings complained of terrifying nightmares. Someone who knocked the box off a shelf died by suicide the same day. Kevin himself started having visions of a demonic old woman with sunken eyes. He recounted the story in his eBay listing, which ended with, “Help me.”

The box was bought and resold several times over the next decade. Owners complained of hair falling out in clumps, bleeding from the eyes, waking up choking, and dreams of the creepy old woman. The box finally found a permanent home in a museum for haunted objects, sealed behind layers of protective glass. It even inspired the 2012 movie, The Possession.

And then, five years ago, Kevin admitted that it was all fake. He made up everything in the original listing. There are no dybbuk boxes in Jewish folklore. The malicious spirits attached to people, not objects. The people who bought the box after Kevin sold it maintained that their hauntings really happened. But as far as Kevin was concerned, the whole eBay thing was a creative writing exercise that spiraled out of control. But today, haunted objects are a hot commodity. And one object, in particular, has become incredibly popular in the secondhand haunted market: dolls. 

Paranormal Teej: EBay, Etsy, they’re all over the place. 

Morgan Sung: This is Taylor, a TikTok creator and YouTuber, also known as Paranormal Teej. She’s a paranormal investigator and haunted doll caretaker. She called me from a room packed with dolls. Can you describe the room you’re in? Like what’s around you? What are the stories behind all that? 

Paranormal Teej: Yes. So in this room, we have about 120 haunted dolls. They come from all around the world. 

Morgan Sung: Taylor keeps them lined up on shelves. Some are porcelain collector’s dolls, dressed in frilly skirts. Others are soft rag dolls, clearly pre-loved by some young child. And while we talked, I swear I could feel them gazing back at me through the screen. 

Paranormal Teej: They keep me on my toes. I work with a lot of, like, trickster spirits. I am very interested in working with, like, spirits with kind of wacky, wild personalities. They are a riot. We adore them. 

Morgan Sung: She introduced me to a few of them. 

Paranormal Teej: So first one I’m going to point out is Jeremiah. If I don’t point him out to you, he will mess with our recordings. 

Morgan Sung: Jeremiah is this big soft bear, wearing a striped t-shirt. His plush legs dangle off the shelf, like a little kid’s would. 

Paranormal Teej: He is a six and a half year old little boy. The half is very important to him. Six is not acceptable. He moves, he moves things, um, especially lollipops. That’s, like, kind of his gig. He loves green things. Um, everything he wants has to be green. So he has moved like lollie pops around our house, threw them down the stairs. 

Morgan Sung: Taylor pointed out another doll. She has a cherubic face and stark black pigtails, and she’s besties with Jeremiah. 

Paranormal Teej: So Hoshiko is five. She’s from Japan. She’ll cause you to have, like, visions like in mirrors and things and she’ll like pop up. So I get the Samara from The Ring in the mirror trick every once in a while. Then she thinks it’s so funny because she likes, like, the reaction. 

Morgan Sung: And lastly, Taylor points out Ciel. He’s in a black, pointed hat. Like a little witch. 

Paranormal Teej: And he is very wise, very gifted. He has given me dreams about things happening a year before they happen and then they come true. And he’s just kind of, he’s my guy. So yeah, those are my, my buddies. 

Morgan Sung: You may be skeptical of all this — but there were a couple of inexplicable incidents in the calls I had with Taylor. At some points, the entire video platform that we used flickered — not someone’s webcam, but the whole site. After the interview, our producer, Maya, said she heard low growling coming from Taylor’s side. When Taylor talked about her doll’s antics, I thought I heard faint giggling in the background. And there were chunks of our interview that our transcription software could not figure out. Instead, it spat out a jumble of German, Chinese, Russian, Japanese, Brazilian, Portuguese, French, Danish, Korean, and a splash of Telugu. Was that Jeremiah messing with us? Although Maya and I were a little freaked out, Taylor seemed unfazed. 

Paranormal Teej: Everybody asks, like, “How are you safe living in a house with 120 haunted dolls? How are, how were you safe?” And the honest answer is like, they, they respect me because I respect them. I’m just nice to them. Like that’s really all it takes is just like basic kindness. Um, and I think that makes the paranormal a lot less scary when you realize that. 

Morgan Sung: Ghosts and the paranormal have been part of Taylor’s life for as long as she could remember. Her mother is a professional psychic. Her aunt is a paranormal investigator. Her grandmother would pull out the Ouija board whenever Taylor stayed over. 

Paranormal Teej: My whole dad’s side of the family, even the ones who don’t want to or want anything to do with the paranormal, see ghosts for whatever reason. And so I just, I kind of grew up in this environment where, like, ghosts aren’t scary. They’re just like a thing, you know, like it’s just a fact of life, kind of attitude about it. 

Morgan Sung: Taylor and her husband bonded over the paranormal and fell in love with doll collecting together. They consider themselves spirit keepers — almost like afterlife caretakers. 

Paranormal Teej: Some spirits legitimately did own their vessel when they were alive. They were attached to it in life and they’re still attached to, you know, like we have spirits whose vessel was like their comfort item as a kid kind of thing. I do have cases where it was like a spirit who was haunting a location and like the location was getting torn down and they were scared because they didn’t know what would happen to them if the location disappeared. They didn’t know if they would disappear, too. So they kind of found a different way out of necessity. 

Morgan Sung: Actually confirming a haunting can take months. 

Paranormal Teej: A lot of spirits will be very quiet and you will have no activity and then six months in at random, they’ll just kind of like pop off and because they’re comfortable with you now. The paranormal field is not a science, right? We don’t have a textbook that says, “This is how you investigate an object. This is how you investigate a location.” And so for us, what our method looks like — because that evidence component is really important to me — I do not feel comfortable saying something is haunted unless I know 100%. If I am 99% sure, I won’t even say, “Yes.” I have to be 100% sure. The other thing about paranormal activity is it’s not predictable. There is zero predictability. You can’t say turn the lights off and they turn the lights off. 

Morgan Sung: So to investigate whether a doll is haunted, Taylor first considers what she calls “subjective observations.” 

Paranormal Teej: Anything from, I saw that doll move to — I saw a ghost in my house to — I heard footsteps or I got a dream from — about this doll, but for me subjective reports are not enough for me to confirm something is haunted because the brain does crazy things. When people are scared and they are around something that they’re suspecting, the brain can do really crazy things to, you know, trick us. You have things like pareidolia, which is, we see faces in things. And so, people can take that as paranormal, but it’s really just your brain playing tricks on you. 

Morgan Sung: So she tries to collect data: fluctuations in air temperature and air pressure, whether motion sensors are activated, and audio and video recordings. She looks for anomalies that she can document and compare against a control. And lastly, Taylor tries to make contact with whatever might be haunting the doll. 

Paranormal Teej: So everybody communicates with spirit slightly differently. For me, the way that works best for me personally is a spirit box. What a spirit box is, is essentially, it is an intentionally broken radio, okay? So basically it rapidly sweeps through radio stations and they can manipulate the radio signals to be able to communicate with you. 

Morgan Sung: She often posts spirit box sessions with her dolls. 

Clip from Paranormal Teej: So that’s something you’re still trying to understand about 2026? The men awful. 

Morgan Sung: Did you hear, “The men awful?” Or did you hear a jumble of static? Skeptics say the audio fragments that are picked up by spirit boxes are random and that it’s confirmation bias and pareidolia that leads investigators to find meaning in the sounds. Taylor, however, says it’s more reliable than other methods. 

Paranormal Teej: There are other tools like Pendulum and Ouija Board, for example, and those things your hands are involved. And for me, like my hands being involved in something, it doesn’t feel like quite as valid of evidence to me. So I really like Spirit Box because my hands are not involved in that. I can’t control what comes out of that box. I have no involvement in that so I like the personal removal from it. 

Morgan Sung: Sometimes the investigation is a bust. Taylor told me about this time her friends thought she bought a haunted doll. So she brought it over. 

Paranormal Teej: Pulled out a spirit box and I’m like, “Hey, like if anybody’s there, like can we talk?” And I got nothing for a long time. You know, I’m like, “Maybe they’re shy.” So I keep asking questions. Nothing is happening. I’m like, “Okay.” Not even like a little bit — not even like a hesitation — nothing. And I’m looking at my friend and I am like, “We’re not getting anything.” And then the spirit box starts talking. And I am thinking, “Oh, maybe they finally decided to show up.” No. Um, it’s Omi, who’s down here in the blue, she’s hilarious. 

Morgan Sung: Taylor pointed to a doll behind her. 

Paranormal Teej: And she comes on and she’s like, “There’s nothing there.” And I’m like, “It’s not haunted, is it?” And she’s, like, “No.” And I’m like, “Thanks!” 

Morgan Sung: Here’s the tea: the paranormal makes for really good content. This was a very niche hobby until a few years ago. 

Paranormal Teej: So, in my opinion, I think the COVID pandemic just shot haunted doll sales up. 

Morgan Sung: This is around the same time “witchtok” took off — the corner of TikTok dedicated to modern witchcraft. Videos of spell jar recipes, algorithmically recommended tarot readings, and ghost hunting all overlapped with the same audience. 

Paranormal Teej: And I think that is largely due to the fact that people were home and they were bored out of their mind and they were looking for something to do. And I think a lot of people were also doom scrolling at that time. Everybody was sitting on TikTok and YouTube all day long watching videos and so people had haunted dolls or making more videos about their haunted dolls than usual because they’re at home all day with them and it was just a perfect storm for like a lot more people who like were not involved in the paranormal or anything to just kind of like decide to try something different. 

Morgan Sung: The more sensational the paranormal content, the better it did online. 

Paranormal Teej: And one of the party tricks that I see a lot is with EMF meters. 

Morgan Sung: These are handheld devices that detect and measure electromagnetic activity. 

Paranormal Teej: They are not ghost metal detectors. Everybody just sees the EMF spike and they assume, “Oh, that’s a ghost,” but they don’t think about all of the other things that set off an EMF meter. Well, we’re in 2026. We have smartwatches that are setting off EMF meters, Wi-Fi, your cell phone — those things are set off by any form of electricity and all of our houses and all these locations are full of electricity, right? But a lot of people will, you know, share proof that their doll is haunted by essentially putting their phone right up to a doll that has an EMF meter on its lap and the EMF is going off and it’s hitting red and everybody’s forgetting that the phone that they’re filming that video on is what is triggering it. So when I see an account where the whole page is just EMF up to a cell phone and nothing else, I’m suspicious. 

Morgan Sung: By becoming so trendy, Taylor says the paranormal community has become less about making contact with the other side and more about making content out of it. 

Paranormal Teej: I think it’s social media and it’s not just haunted dolls, it’s the whole overall paranormal community. You know, the people that are into the paranormal will chase it to the end of the earth. I mean, some of these locations will charge you, you know, hundreds, thousands of dollars to go investigate there for the night. It’s extremely lucrative. Investigators are seeking evidence. They are interested, obviously. But there’s also, I think, the social media pressure. Content creators, especially, it’s like they, you know, want to — to get content out and they want to keep going so they have to go to more haunted locations and you know, have to have more experiences, because they’re sharing the experiences with the public and people are expecting to see it. 

Morgan Sung: And as this genre of content took off, the market for haunted objects suddenly became very lucrative. EBay, Etsy, and Facebook Marketplace technically do allow for sales of haunted or occult objects, as long as the listing includes a disclaimer that it’s for entertainment purposes only. But that disclaimer also means that you can get away with anything. 

Paranormal Teej: People want to have a paranormal experience. People are interested in that now. It didn’t used to be. Everybody didn’t wanna have a paranormal experience before, but now it’s like, people are chasing an experience. So people have learned — there are people who will pay anything to get to have this happen. I think that people have caught on to that. It’s trendy right now, it’s in right now and everybody’s looking for a time.

And so, people have learned like, okay, before I could go to like, buy one of those empty storage lockers and I could sell everything for $10 a piece, whatever, but if the haunted doll people pay 200 bucks for that, that’s what I’m going to charge. Um, and the fact of the matter is, when people buy it, people will sell it because there’s a demand for it. 

Morgan Sung: Like the dybbuk box that duped countless people 20 years ago, many of these listings have elaborate descriptions recounting tales of supernatural, otherworldly encounters. And dolls, especially, can go for way more than what they’re typically worth if they’re labeled “haunted.” 

Paranormal Teej: I mean, I’ve seen in the thousands, multiple times. I always tell people the higher the price doesn’t mean that it’s more haunted than the ones that are a lower price. Like, a spirit is a spirit. There’s no such thing as like, this spirit is more spirity than this other spirit. My rule of thumb that I always tell people is like, “You can’t put a price on the paranormal,” right? Paranormal experiences are not guaranteed. Paranormal experiences are not scientific fact. So for me, ethically, I believe that the object should be priced similarly to the price that their vessel or their doll is worth. So if you have a doll that is like a collector’s item and worth $300 — yeah, list it for $300. If you have a doll that’s worth $50, list it for $50. 

Morgan Sung: The dybbuk box eBay listing was such a novelty at the time. Now, haunted doll listings are a dime a dozen. On eBay today, I scrolled through listings for haunted dolls, haunted clip-on earrings, haunted keys, haunted cargo pants, haunted labubus and — not joking — a quote, haunted by curious dybbuk box.

I am not cut out for the haunted doll life, but if you were to buy one, how are you supposed to sift through all the haunted scams? Taylor actually makes haunted doll guides and recently started focusing more on creating seller checklists so her followers can vet listings for themselves. She’s wary of any seller that makes content of EMF readings. She’s also suspicious of large-scale listings. 

Paranormal Teej: You go on their page and they have a hundred Haunted Dolls listed and nearly all of them have the same story. I mean, spirits are — they’re people and every person is different. So how do you have a 100 spirits who all are the same person basically with a different name and like slightly changed details? So that’s a red flag. The other thing is if the facts don’t line up.

So I have seen — this happens a lot. This is a big one. The story will say, “Oh, this doll is haunted by so-and-so and so-and-so owned this doll when they were alive and it was very meaningful to them, so they chose to keep it with them in the afterlife.” And you source the year on the vessel, and the vessel — the doll itself — was made in 1980. It says that the spirit is from the 1800s. That’s impossible. They couldn’t have owned the doll in the 1800s when the doll was made in the 1980s. 

Morgan Sung: TikTok is full of complaints and warnings of haunted scams. This is especially frustrating to Taylor, who really sees spirit keeping as a lifelong commitment. 

Paranormal Teej: Seeing people repeatedly getting things that are fake. One, obviously it’s a waste of money. I mean, obviously that’s irritating. Financial scamming is no joke and pisses me off. But it goes beyond that into, you know, those are people that could give an actual spirit a really nice place to live. And getting scammed over and over again chases them away from this hobby. I may be able to change, you know, the quality of afterlife for the spirits in my home. I can help a finite number of spirits, but I can help a lot more spirits if I can teach other people to do what I’m doing. 

Morgan Sung: I’m still not sure what my relationship to the paranormal is. I want objective evidence. Data. A clear, unequivocal answer that explains why things are the way that they are. But throughout the interview, I kept catching glimpses of Jeremiah over Taylor’s shoulder with his fluffy teddy bear ears and little legs dangling over the edge of the shelf. And when Taylor talked about taking care of spirits in the afterlife, I swear, I saw him perk up. 

That’s it for Close All Tabs’ special spooky storytime. We’ll have a fresh deep dive for you next week, but if you’re dying to open more tabs about the tales we told today, check out the episode description for some suggested reading. Or stick around after the credits for some bonus content. Okay, let’s close all these tabs. 

Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Hambrick. It was engineered by Brendan Willard and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional production support by Cayla Mihalovich. Our intern is Lauren Yoon. Additional music by APM. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is Executive Director of Podcasts, and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor-in-Chief. 

Special thanks to Hallie Tut, Ted Hegemann, Craig Groshek, Rena Lee, and Paranormal Teej for sharing their stories with us.  This episode includes clips and archive tape from Hallie Tut, Eli Unique, Paranomal Teej, and Villains Wiki.

Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. 

This episode’s keyboard sounds were submitted by Alex Tran and recorded on his white Apple Maker Hi-75 keyboard with Foggered in Red Samurai keycaps and Gator on Milky Yellow Pro V2 switches. Thanks for listening. 

Paranormal Teej: So when it comes to buying and selling, they don’t really care about the concept of it. Their primary focus is always like, “Am I going somewhere where somebody is going to be nice to me or not?” That’s what they care about — is like, “Am I going to a good home?” But the one thing I know they don’t like is the shipping. They don’t like shipping. I hear complaints about shipping all the time. So. 

Morgan Sung: I mean, yeah, you can’t, you, can’t yeah, kind of out of your control. 

Paranormal Teej: Yeah. I’m like, “Sorry.”