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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Kyle, a 10th grader at Palo Alto High School, walked into his final debate of the day, he was hoping for an easy finish to a long tournament. Instead, he found himself face-to-face with an opponent known for being challenging and loud. “The entire round she was screaming at the top of her lungs,” Kyle recalled. “It really tested my ability to stay calm. There were so many times I wanted to scream back, but I didn’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kyle’s experience isn’t unique. From school board meetings to online comment sections, many people have been in situations where emotions take over and voices rise. At a time when \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58660/teaching-civics-soft-skills-how-do-civics-education-and-social-emotional-learning-overlap\">public discourse often feels combative and chaotic\u003c/a>, high school speech and debate helps students learn how to stay composed in these moments, to speak with intention, and to listen when tensions run high.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Speech and debate offers this amazing gift,” said Kyle Hietala, a speech and debate coach at Palo Alto High School. “No matter what event you’re in, you’re guaranteed a set amount of time to speak. No interruptions. No shouting over you. Your voice will be heard.” Additionally, speech and debate allows students to experiment with different communication styles, source reliable information and practice public speaking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Kyle, the student, the experience has been transformative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My grandfather once called me wishy-washy, which I interpret as him saying I didn’t really mean it when I said something,” he said. But after joining speech and debate, he improved his communication skills in several ways. “I became more confident, less shy; it got easier to get my point across.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Learning to Think Critically About Information\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Speech and debate can teach students how to think critically about the information they use to build an argument, which includes learning how to evaluate sources. Fewer young people rely on traditional news, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/\">many Gen Z students get information from social media platforms\u003c/a> where algorithms can reinforce existing beliefs. But that approach won’t work in a debate round. Since students are expected to back up their claims with credible sources, they quickly learn the difference between reliable information and content that won’t hold up under scrutiny. If a student cites a TikTok in a debate, their opponent will be quick to call it “not verifiable,” said Priya Garcia, a speech and debate coach at Leland High School\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Removing social media as a primary source is one of several ways speech and debate can expand students’ information diets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’re forced to passionately engage in a bunch of research and learn more about the world overall,” said Samit, a twelfth grader from Nueva School. “You aren’t biased by social media because you’ve done the research and advocated for the perspectives that go both for and against that media.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students may not always change their minds, but they become more aware of what shapes their thinking as they question their assumptions, consider multiple viewpoints, and build arguments rooted in evidence. “I didn’t keep up with the news when I started high school,” said Tessa, a student at Palo Alto High School who reads the news daily. “Now I feel so much more educated about what’s going on around me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Finding the Right Format for Every Student\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The range of events available in high school speech and debate clubs allows students to find formats that suit their unique personalities, research styles, and interests. Coach Garcia compares it to track and field. Students can pick and choose the events that fit them best and they can do more than one, she said. For example, a student who enjoys philosophical questions might gravitate toward Lincoln-Douglas debate, which focuses on moral and ethical dilemmas. Someone more interested in current events might choose policy debate, which centers on government action and real-world proposals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although students are often assigned a side in debate events, they usually study both sides of the issue to prepare counterarguments and strengthen their position. “You’re open to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/50983/how-debate-structures-allow-english-learners-brilliance-to-shine\">more arguments and more sources\u003c/a>. It kind of opens you up to a lot more ideas,” said Narendra, a twelfth grader from Archbishop Mitty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While many students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">grow by exploring different sides of an argument\u003c/a>, coaches understand that not everyone is comfortable defending an argument they do not agree with. “If a student is hesitant to defend a position they don’t agree with,” said Garcia, “We’ll often guide them toward a speech event, or something like Congressional Debate. It’s called a debate, but it allows for a lot more personal choice in what topics students prepare and argue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garcia said usually students’ beliefs do not hamper their ability to debate. “Having opinions isn’t a bad thing. It can actually fuel their research.” She encourages students to use their discomfort as a tool for deeper inquiry and ask themselves questions like, “What are the sub-arguments on this side of the resolution that make me feel weird or uneasy? Why do I feel that way? And how can I find sources that still support my side, but in a way that aligns with my values?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Facing the Fear and Finding Your Voice\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Debate isn’t just for extroverts. In fact, many quieter or more \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62119/how-extroverted-teachers-can-engage-introverted-students\">introverted students thrive\u003c/a> in debate. Their thoughtfulness often becomes an asset in constructing well-reasoned, creative arguments, said coach Hietala.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6447508/#:~:text=Age%2Dof%2Donset%20data%20point,lead%20to%20better%20treatment%20outcomes.\">Fear of public speaking is common, especially for teenagers\u003c/a>. Many students develop this fear in adolescence, and it can persist into adulthood, limiting career and leadership opportunities. Students noted that speech and debate gave them the tools to work through that fear, even in interpersonal relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alejandro, a ninth grade student from Palo Alto High School, said that he’s always liked to talk, but since starting speech and debate his confidence has expanded. “I’m confident about talking not just about jokes and funny things, but actually about complicated topics and sad topics,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those who participate in debate may still get nervous when they speak. However, they learn that nervousness is something they can work through. “Speech and debate has definitely helped me control my own emotions around that,” said Motoko, a student at Palo Alto High School. “I’m more comfortable talking in front of people and sharing my own ideas.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5130606911\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walk into Palo Alto High School, the energy is electric. I’ve been to basketball games, school plays, even science fairs, but I’ve never seen anything quite like this. This is a high school debate tournament. Students in suits pace the hallways, whispering arguments under their breath. Some are huddled over laptops, scrolling through pages of notes. Others repeatedly refresh a website, waiting to see their next opponent. And in a few minutes, I’m about to step into my first round as a spectator.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I’ll be watching Holden, a senior at Palo Alto High School, debate a student from another school. When I talked to Holden a few weeks before, it was over Zoom. He was casual, funny, and relaxed. But today, as I spot him across the crowded school hallway, he’s buttoned-up in a suit, laptop in hand. He looks focused\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> It can be kind of stressful when you’re waiting for results to come out or you’re just waiting for the next round to drop, which I’m waiting for right now. But kind of distracting yourself with other things and not focusing on debate all the time is very, very helpful, especially since you’re at these tournaments for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In speech and debate clubs across the country, students like Holden are learning to craft strong, structured arguments—they’re developing skills that will serve them well in school, careers, and life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The program everyone in the hallway is refreshing tells students where to go, who they’ll be debating, and which side of the argument they’ll take. Holden sees his opponent’s name pop up—Hannah. He’s met her in other tournaments before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> Hannah’s a really great debater and so I think overall, yeah she, I mean very persuasive, very articulate, so we’ll see, I have no clue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> He shuts his laptop and motions for me to follow him. We weave through the crowd to a classroom where two judges sit at student desks. Hannah, also in a suit, is poised with her laptop open. The room is expectant, a little tense. Then, the round begins with Hannah\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> This will be a six minute affirmative speech. I’ll just be going over my contentions. And time starts now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lincoln-Douglas style debate. One person argues for a resolution—a big, philosophical statement—while the other argues against it. Today’s resolution? Well… I’ll let Hannah tell you\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> The development of artificial general intelligence is immoral.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The development of artificial general intelligence is immoral. Hannah is arguing for the affirmative. She lays out her case: Artificial General Intelligence – also called AGI- threatens jobs, accelerates inequality, and consumes massive amounts of energy. She cites sources, scanning her laptop while keeping her focus on the judges. Holden listens carefully, scribbling down notes and then stands up for cross-examination, which means he’ll ask Hannah some clarifying questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> Let’s first talk about your first contention about economics.You talk about how AGI will replace workers. Could you read me a specific piece of evidence from your case that says that AGI will displace many workers and not just AI?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> Yes, That’s specifically the first part in the affirmative contention…..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Then it’s his turn to argue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden Lee:\u003c/strong> the affirmative must prove that AGI development is inherently that…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> He counters that AGI can enhance human well-being, improve healthcare, and make agriculture more sustainable. He questions whether AGI development is inherently immoral, pointing out that misuse doesn’t mean the technology itself is bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> There are three main areas AGI would benefit human health: Disease diagnosis, cancer treatment, and drug innovation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For 40 minutes, they go back and forth, quickly challenging each other’s claims, quoting studies, asking sharp questions. And here’s what surprises me: They’re arguing hard, but they’re listening, too. They don’t interrupt. They engage with each other’s ideas. It’s not the shouting match I’ve come to expect from political debates on TV or the kind of back-and-forth you see online, where people talk past each other instead of truly listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> AGI poses an unprecedented threat to workers and the economy at large. Siphonover25 explains that AGI possesses the capability to fully replace cognitive and physical labor, rendering human employment obsolete across numerous industries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> I find it very hard to believe that everyone is just going to lose their job with AGI. That’s exactly what people said when tractors and other forms of agriculture, agricultural innovations displaced millions of Americans from the agricultural sector. But Americans aren’t all unemployed today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Then, just like that, it’s over. They shake hands, gather their papers, and walk out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah and Holden:\u003c/strong> thanks, good debate\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I find Holden in the hallway after. He looks calm and collected. Meanwhile, as a person who does not like confrontation, I’ve been sweating from just watching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> I think overall the debate was very high quality, lots of substance, lot of new points that I didn’t prep for and so I had to kind of think on my feet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lincoln Douglass debaters know the topic beforehand and they have a few weeks to research it, but they don’t know if they will be asked to argue the affirmative or the negative. Holden could just as easily have been asked to argue the other side. Lincoln-Douglas debaters have to prepare for both positions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> The flip -flopping’s kind of hard. You have to get adjusted to it. You have to go from being fervently, you know, denying it, you know, an argument into the affirmative affirmation of it. And so it’s a really good skill to develop, though, to be able to flip -flop and kind of see. just kind of a broader perspective of how it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Speech and debate clubs give students the chance to communicate ideas that might be different from their actual opinions and there’s room for everyone to practice that skill in a way that fits their style.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> We’ll hear from students who specialize in different speech and debate events, explore what keeps them motivated, and ask a bigger question: Could learning to debate make all of us better at having tough conversations? That’s coming up next on MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of us avoid tough conversations. Not because we don’t care, but because we’re afraid. Afraid of being judged, of saying the wrong thing, of facing backlash. But avoiding these conversations doesn’t keep us safe. In fact, it keeps us disconnected. Knowing how to express your views and truly engage with others is a skill that helps students build deeper relationships, shape their thinking, and even change the way they see the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Kyle Hietala, one of the debate coaches at Palo Alto High School told me that the structure students have to follow is helpful for making sure everyone can say their piece\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle Hietala:\u003c/strong> Speech and debate offers this amazing gift where you are guaranteed an exact number of minutes to speak regardless of the type of speech and debate event that you’re in. You’re guaranteed to not be interrupted or shouted over or shouted down in your speaking time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s uncommon for a debate to go off the rails the way conversations might at a tense Thanksgiving dinner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle Hietala:\u003c/strong> The students generally check each other on it. It’s really rare that I have to step in and kind of say like, Whoa, chill or like let’s step back for a second\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It also helps that there are a variety of speech and debate events, so students can explore what feels best for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> I like to use the comparison of like track and field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Priya Garcia, one of the speech and debate coaches at Leland High School,which is a school that participated in the tournament.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> Not every student does shot put, not every student does javelin, not every student does the hurdles like Students get to pick and choose which events are best suited for them. They’re testing out different styles of athleticism and different skills. There’s different preparation involved for each of those track and field events. Speech and debate is similar in that there are, at least on the California level, 17 different events that are available… national level is a little bit different. And I do have students who do a speech event and a debate event\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lincoln-Douglas is about philosophy and big-picture thinking, whereas Policy Debate is a two-on-two debate where teams research and argue for or against a specific policy. Like in this round on the language used when describing abuse in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And then there’s Public Forum Debate, which is more like what you might expect from a political debate—teams of two arguing over real-world policy issues. LIke here where students are arguing over us trade agreements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Soundbite from a Public Forum debate]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Everyone has their own style. Some people love the technical aspects of Policy, others like the philosophy of Lincoln-Douglas. And then there are speech events—where you perform, almost like theater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Soundbite from a speech event]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Interestingly enough, when I talked to students who participate in speech and debate about whether they have changed their mind about something, they said no, not really. They described it as more of an expansion of their knowledge about certain topics and ability to think about things in new ways. Here’s Priya\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> Most of the time we have students who are able to set aside their personal opinions for the sake of the debate. And for them, for the sake of winning, because that’s what they care about at their age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Occasionally, students don’t want to argue for beliefs they disagree with. In that case, a coach might steer them toward a different style of speech or debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> We’ll lean them more towards a speech event where they get to pick their side. towards a congressional debate, which is, it’s called a debate, but they get to do a lot of preparation on the stuff that they actually care about in that round.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But in general, having opinions about a topic is a strength that coaches help students use to their advantage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> They’re also able to use those opinions to fuel their research. They’re able to take and think about like, wait, why do I feel like that? What are some of the sub arguments within this side of the resolution that make me feel like a little weird maybe, or maybe make me feel a little bit bad about the side that I’m advocating for? And why do I feel that way? And how can I channel that into picking? Evidence and sources that don’t make me feel that way and yet are trying to prove a similar point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> You learn how to think fast on your feet\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Tessa. She’s a sophomore from Palo Alto High School, who does an event called extemporaneous speech.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> you also have to learn how to be fluent and not stumble over yourself. And if you do make a mistake, then you got to recover really fast\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Fear of public speaking is common. Many students develop this fear in adolescence, and it can persist into adulthood, limiting career and leadership opportunities. Students who participate in debate club may still get nervous when they are speaking, but they know it’s only temporary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> I think this translates very well into your classes and giving presentations. Also, my coach jokes around that like if you forget to do your slideshow, just like pull up an image and then you can give that speech and then just like make the whole thing up on the spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Another major benefit? Debate keeps students engaged with current events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> I did not keep up with the news when I was going into high school and I feel like now I’m so much more educated in what’s going on around me and even like with the elections, I’d say this was the first election that I actually cared about because I was reading the news over and over again and looking at polls and like, oh my God, Trump, Kamala, Trump, Kamala, like what’s going on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The number of young people who read or watch traditional news has been declining. But citing TikTok in a debate round? That won’t fly. Here’s Priya again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> I like to tell them that social media is a tool, much like a pen. I can use it to write a nice poem or I can use it to poke someone’s eye out. So with that same vein, any of their interest in social media has actually led them to a variety of new pieces of evidence and new sources. but then at the same time, me being like, oh, make sure that that thing that you saw on TikTok actually has a citation in the description, and then go to the citation in the description instead of just citing the TikTok as is. Making sure that they’re kind of doing all of that backtracking, finding out what the original source was, because rest assured, their opponents are gonna tell them in round, wait a second, you just got this from TikTok? That’s not verifiable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One of the most critical skills that speech and debate teaches students is how to regulate their emotions in high-stress situations. Kyle, a freshman at Palo Alto High School, told me about a time he had to learn this firsthand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> I walked into my last round of the day and i thought i could finally breathe a sigh of relief but what ended up happening was my opponent was very good and she actually is quite well renowned for being a bit mean to her opponents and so the entire round she was screaming at the top of her lungs\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> It was really kind of a trial of my ability to stay calm because there were countless times where I wanted to like stand up and scream at her too but I didn’t end up doing that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I just want to emphasize Kyle is 14 years old, and he’s already mastered something that many adults struggle with: how to stay engaged in tough conversations without making them personal. He understands that debating an issue passionately doesn’t mean attacking the person on the other side. Last year’s presidential debates show how badly this lesson is needed\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Snipes from presidential debates]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> Yeah, they do not follow the rules of debate in the presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Our politicians aren’t exactly setting the best example for constructive discussion. But students? They’re leading the way—debate by debate, tournament by tournament. Speech and Debate is giving them the space to practice not just the fundamentals of argumentation, but the fundamentals of democracy and strong relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> There are so many benefits to your students in starting this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Byron R. Arthur. He’s Board President of the National Speech and Debate Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> There’s some studies that have been done, particularly around young people of color or young people that are called, quote, unquote, at risk, where those students who’ve been involved in debate have significantly better academic and social behavioral outcomes than their similarly situated peers who do not. You’re going to see it in your test scores. You will see it in your attendance at school.You will see it in a decrease in suspensions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you’re listening to this and thinking, “I wish I had done debate in high school” or maybe “I wish my school had a debate program,” there’s good news. You don’t need to wait for an official team to get started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> if the question is, should we start one? My answer would be, oh, hell, yes! Reach out to the National Speech and Debate Association. Our goal is that every school in this country will one day have a speech and debate program. Every one of them. That’s what we’re aiming for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> And so if a school wants to start it, there’s no excuse. There’s absolutely no excuse. Reach out to the office, reach out to the organization. And we’ve got people there who help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Before I went to this tournament, I thought debate was all about being the loudest, the most confident, the quickest on your feet. But after watching these students, I realized it’s actually about curiosity, the ability to hold two ideas in your head at once. The skill of truly listening. That’s something we could all use a little more of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Palo Alto High School: Kyle Hietala, Tessa, Motoko, Kyle the student and Holden. Thank you to Priya Garcia and Students at Leeland. Thank you to student at Archbishop Midi and Nueva, including Hannah. Thank you Byron R. Arthur\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Marnette Federis and Ki Sung. Our editor is Chris Hambrick, Seth Samuel is our sound designer, Jen Chien is our head of podcasts, Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Holly Kernan is KQED’s chief content officer. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. This episode was made possible by the Stuart Foundation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Kyle, a 10th grader at Palo Alto High School, walked into his final debate of the day, he was hoping for an easy finish to a long tournament. Instead, he found himself face-to-face with an opponent known for being challenging and loud. “The entire round she was screaming at the top of her lungs,” Kyle recalled. “It really tested my ability to stay calm. There were so many times I wanted to scream back, but I didn’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kyle’s experience isn’t unique. From school board meetings to online comment sections, many people have been in situations where emotions take over and voices rise. At a time when \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58660/teaching-civics-soft-skills-how-do-civics-education-and-social-emotional-learning-overlap\">public discourse often feels combative and chaotic\u003c/a>, high school speech and debate helps students learn how to stay composed in these moments, to speak with intention, and to listen when tensions run high.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Speech and debate offers this amazing gift,” said Kyle Hietala, a speech and debate coach at Palo Alto High School. “No matter what event you’re in, you’re guaranteed a set amount of time to speak. No interruptions. No shouting over you. Your voice will be heard.” Additionally, speech and debate allows students to experiment with different communication styles, source reliable information and practice public speaking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Kyle, the student, the experience has been transformative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My grandfather once called me wishy-washy, which I interpret as him saying I didn’t really mean it when I said something,” he said. But after joining speech and debate, he improved his communication skills in several ways. “I became more confident, less shy; it got easier to get my point across.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Learning to Think Critically About Information\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Speech and debate can teach students how to think critically about the information they use to build an argument, which includes learning how to evaluate sources. Fewer young people rely on traditional news, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/\">many Gen Z students get information from social media platforms\u003c/a> where algorithms can reinforce existing beliefs. But that approach won’t work in a debate round. Since students are expected to back up their claims with credible sources, they quickly learn the difference between reliable information and content that won’t hold up under scrutiny. If a student cites a TikTok in a debate, their opponent will be quick to call it “not verifiable,” said Priya Garcia, a speech and debate coach at Leland High School\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Removing social media as a primary source is one of several ways speech and debate can expand students’ information diets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’re forced to passionately engage in a bunch of research and learn more about the world overall,” said Samit, a twelfth grader from Nueva School. “You aren’t biased by social media because you’ve done the research and advocated for the perspectives that go both for and against that media.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students may not always change their minds, but they become more aware of what shapes their thinking as they question their assumptions, consider multiple viewpoints, and build arguments rooted in evidence. “I didn’t keep up with the news when I started high school,” said Tessa, a student at Palo Alto High School who reads the news daily. “Now I feel so much more educated about what’s going on around me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Finding the Right Format for Every Student\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The range of events available in high school speech and debate clubs allows students to find formats that suit their unique personalities, research styles, and interests. Coach Garcia compares it to track and field. Students can pick and choose the events that fit them best and they can do more than one, she said. For example, a student who enjoys philosophical questions might gravitate toward Lincoln-Douglas debate, which focuses on moral and ethical dilemmas. Someone more interested in current events might choose policy debate, which centers on government action and real-world proposals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although students are often assigned a side in debate events, they usually study both sides of the issue to prepare counterarguments and strengthen their position. “You’re open to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/50983/how-debate-structures-allow-english-learners-brilliance-to-shine\">more arguments and more sources\u003c/a>. It kind of opens you up to a lot more ideas,” said Narendra, a twelfth grader from Archbishop Mitty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While many students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">grow by exploring different sides of an argument\u003c/a>, coaches understand that not everyone is comfortable defending an argument they do not agree with. “If a student is hesitant to defend a position they don’t agree with,” said Garcia, “We’ll often guide them toward a speech event, or something like Congressional Debate. It’s called a debate, but it allows for a lot more personal choice in what topics students prepare and argue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garcia said usually students’ beliefs do not hamper their ability to debate. “Having opinions isn’t a bad thing. It can actually fuel their research.” She encourages students to use their discomfort as a tool for deeper inquiry and ask themselves questions like, “What are the sub-arguments on this side of the resolution that make me feel weird or uneasy? Why do I feel that way? And how can I find sources that still support my side, but in a way that aligns with my values?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Facing the Fear and Finding Your Voice\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Debate isn’t just for extroverts. In fact, many quieter or more \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62119/how-extroverted-teachers-can-engage-introverted-students\">introverted students thrive\u003c/a> in debate. Their thoughtfulness often becomes an asset in constructing well-reasoned, creative arguments, said coach Hietala.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6447508/#:~:text=Age%2Dof%2Donset%20data%20point,lead%20to%20better%20treatment%20outcomes.\">Fear of public speaking is common, especially for teenagers\u003c/a>. Many students develop this fear in adolescence, and it can persist into adulthood, limiting career and leadership opportunities. Students noted that speech and debate gave them the tools to work through that fear, even in interpersonal relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alejandro, a ninth grade student from Palo Alto High School, said that he’s always liked to talk, but since starting speech and debate his confidence has expanded. “I’m confident about talking not just about jokes and funny things, but actually about complicated topics and sad topics,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those who participate in debate may still get nervous when they speak. However, they learn that nervousness is something they can work through. “Speech and debate has definitely helped me control my own emotions around that,” said Motoko, a student at Palo Alto High School. “I’m more comfortable talking in front of people and sharing my own ideas.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5130606911\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walk into Palo Alto High School, the energy is electric. I’ve been to basketball games, school plays, even science fairs, but I’ve never seen anything quite like this. This is a high school debate tournament. Students in suits pace the hallways, whispering arguments under their breath. Some are huddled over laptops, scrolling through pages of notes. Others repeatedly refresh a website, waiting to see their next opponent. And in a few minutes, I’m about to step into my first round as a spectator.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I’ll be watching Holden, a senior at Palo Alto High School, debate a student from another school. When I talked to Holden a few weeks before, it was over Zoom. He was casual, funny, and relaxed. But today, as I spot him across the crowded school hallway, he’s buttoned-up in a suit, laptop in hand. He looks focused\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> It can be kind of stressful when you’re waiting for results to come out or you’re just waiting for the next round to drop, which I’m waiting for right now. But kind of distracting yourself with other things and not focusing on debate all the time is very, very helpful, especially since you’re at these tournaments for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In speech and debate clubs across the country, students like Holden are learning to craft strong, structured arguments—they’re developing skills that will serve them well in school, careers, and life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The program everyone in the hallway is refreshing tells students where to go, who they’ll be debating, and which side of the argument they’ll take. Holden sees his opponent’s name pop up—Hannah. He’s met her in other tournaments before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> Hannah’s a really great debater and so I think overall, yeah she, I mean very persuasive, very articulate, so we’ll see, I have no clue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> He shuts his laptop and motions for me to follow him. We weave through the crowd to a classroom where two judges sit at student desks. Hannah, also in a suit, is poised with her laptop open. The room is expectant, a little tense. Then, the round begins with Hannah\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> This will be a six minute affirmative speech. I’ll just be going over my contentions. And time starts now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lincoln-Douglas style debate. One person argues for a resolution—a big, philosophical statement—while the other argues against it. Today’s resolution? Well… I’ll let Hannah tell you\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> The development of artificial general intelligence is immoral.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The development of artificial general intelligence is immoral. Hannah is arguing for the affirmative. She lays out her case: Artificial General Intelligence – also called AGI- threatens jobs, accelerates inequality, and consumes massive amounts of energy. She cites sources, scanning her laptop while keeping her focus on the judges. Holden listens carefully, scribbling down notes and then stands up for cross-examination, which means he’ll ask Hannah some clarifying questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> Let’s first talk about your first contention about economics.You talk about how AGI will replace workers. Could you read me a specific piece of evidence from your case that says that AGI will displace many workers and not just AI?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> Yes, That’s specifically the first part in the affirmative contention…..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Then it’s his turn to argue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden Lee:\u003c/strong> the affirmative must prove that AGI development is inherently that…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> He counters that AGI can enhance human well-being, improve healthcare, and make agriculture more sustainable. He questions whether AGI development is inherently immoral, pointing out that misuse doesn’t mean the technology itself is bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> There are three main areas AGI would benefit human health: Disease diagnosis, cancer treatment, and drug innovation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For 40 minutes, they go back and forth, quickly challenging each other’s claims, quoting studies, asking sharp questions. And here’s what surprises me: They’re arguing hard, but they’re listening, too. They don’t interrupt. They engage with each other’s ideas. It’s not the shouting match I’ve come to expect from political debates on TV or the kind of back-and-forth you see online, where people talk past each other instead of truly listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah:\u003c/strong> AGI poses an unprecedented threat to workers and the economy at large. Siphonover25 explains that AGI possesses the capability to fully replace cognitive and physical labor, rendering human employment obsolete across numerous industries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> I find it very hard to believe that everyone is just going to lose their job with AGI. That’s exactly what people said when tractors and other forms of agriculture, agricultural innovations displaced millions of Americans from the agricultural sector. But Americans aren’t all unemployed today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Then, just like that, it’s over. They shake hands, gather their papers, and walk out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hannah and Holden:\u003c/strong> thanks, good debate\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I find Holden in the hallway after. He looks calm and collected. Meanwhile, as a person who does not like confrontation, I’ve been sweating from just watching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> I think overall the debate was very high quality, lots of substance, lot of new points that I didn’t prep for and so I had to kind of think on my feet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lincoln Douglass debaters know the topic beforehand and they have a few weeks to research it, but they don’t know if they will be asked to argue the affirmative or the negative. Holden could just as easily have been asked to argue the other side. Lincoln-Douglas debaters have to prepare for both positions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Holden:\u003c/strong> The flip -flopping’s kind of hard. You have to get adjusted to it. You have to go from being fervently, you know, denying it, you know, an argument into the affirmative affirmation of it. And so it’s a really good skill to develop, though, to be able to flip -flop and kind of see. just kind of a broader perspective of how it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Speech and debate clubs give students the chance to communicate ideas that might be different from their actual opinions and there’s room for everyone to practice that skill in a way that fits their style.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> We’ll hear from students who specialize in different speech and debate events, explore what keeps them motivated, and ask a bigger question: Could learning to debate make all of us better at having tough conversations? That’s coming up next on MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of us avoid tough conversations. Not because we don’t care, but because we’re afraid. Afraid of being judged, of saying the wrong thing, of facing backlash. But avoiding these conversations doesn’t keep us safe. In fact, it keeps us disconnected. Knowing how to express your views and truly engage with others is a skill that helps students build deeper relationships, shape their thinking, and even change the way they see the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Kyle Hietala, one of the debate coaches at Palo Alto High School told me that the structure students have to follow is helpful for making sure everyone can say their piece\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle Hietala:\u003c/strong> Speech and debate offers this amazing gift where you are guaranteed an exact number of minutes to speak regardless of the type of speech and debate event that you’re in. You’re guaranteed to not be interrupted or shouted over or shouted down in your speaking time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s uncommon for a debate to go off the rails the way conversations might at a tense Thanksgiving dinner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle Hietala:\u003c/strong> The students generally check each other on it. It’s really rare that I have to step in and kind of say like, Whoa, chill or like let’s step back for a second\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It also helps that there are a variety of speech and debate events, so students can explore what feels best for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> I like to use the comparison of like track and field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Priya Garcia, one of the speech and debate coaches at Leland High School,which is a school that participated in the tournament.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> Not every student does shot put, not every student does javelin, not every student does the hurdles like Students get to pick and choose which events are best suited for them. They’re testing out different styles of athleticism and different skills. There’s different preparation involved for each of those track and field events. Speech and debate is similar in that there are, at least on the California level, 17 different events that are available… national level is a little bit different. And I do have students who do a speech event and a debate event\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lincoln-Douglas is about philosophy and big-picture thinking, whereas Policy Debate is a two-on-two debate where teams research and argue for or against a specific policy. Like in this round on the language used when describing abuse in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And then there’s Public Forum Debate, which is more like what you might expect from a political debate—teams of two arguing over real-world policy issues. LIke here where students are arguing over us trade agreements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Soundbite from a Public Forum debate]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Everyone has their own style. Some people love the technical aspects of Policy, others like the philosophy of Lincoln-Douglas. And then there are speech events—where you perform, almost like theater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Soundbite from a speech event]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Interestingly enough, when I talked to students who participate in speech and debate about whether they have changed their mind about something, they said no, not really. They described it as more of an expansion of their knowledge about certain topics and ability to think about things in new ways. Here’s Priya\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> Most of the time we have students who are able to set aside their personal opinions for the sake of the debate. And for them, for the sake of winning, because that’s what they care about at their age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Occasionally, students don’t want to argue for beliefs they disagree with. In that case, a coach might steer them toward a different style of speech or debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> We’ll lean them more towards a speech event where they get to pick their side. towards a congressional debate, which is, it’s called a debate, but they get to do a lot of preparation on the stuff that they actually care about in that round.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But in general, having opinions about a topic is a strength that coaches help students use to their advantage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> They’re also able to use those opinions to fuel their research. They’re able to take and think about like, wait, why do I feel like that? What are some of the sub arguments within this side of the resolution that make me feel like a little weird maybe, or maybe make me feel a little bit bad about the side that I’m advocating for? And why do I feel that way? And how can I channel that into picking? Evidence and sources that don’t make me feel that way and yet are trying to prove a similar point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> You learn how to think fast on your feet\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Tessa. She’s a sophomore from Palo Alto High School, who does an event called extemporaneous speech.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> you also have to learn how to be fluent and not stumble over yourself. And if you do make a mistake, then you got to recover really fast\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Fear of public speaking is common. Many students develop this fear in adolescence, and it can persist into adulthood, limiting career and leadership opportunities. Students who participate in debate club may still get nervous when they are speaking, but they know it’s only temporary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> I think this translates very well into your classes and giving presentations. Also, my coach jokes around that like if you forget to do your slideshow, just like pull up an image and then you can give that speech and then just like make the whole thing up on the spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Another major benefit? Debate keeps students engaged with current events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tessa:\u003c/strong> I did not keep up with the news when I was going into high school and I feel like now I’m so much more educated in what’s going on around me and even like with the elections, I’d say this was the first election that I actually cared about because I was reading the news over and over again and looking at polls and like, oh my God, Trump, Kamala, Trump, Kamala, like what’s going on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The number of young people who read or watch traditional news has been declining. But citing TikTok in a debate round? That won’t fly. Here’s Priya again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Priya Garcia:\u003c/strong> I like to tell them that social media is a tool, much like a pen. I can use it to write a nice poem or I can use it to poke someone’s eye out. So with that same vein, any of their interest in social media has actually led them to a variety of new pieces of evidence and new sources. but then at the same time, me being like, oh, make sure that that thing that you saw on TikTok actually has a citation in the description, and then go to the citation in the description instead of just citing the TikTok as is. Making sure that they’re kind of doing all of that backtracking, finding out what the original source was, because rest assured, their opponents are gonna tell them in round, wait a second, you just got this from TikTok? That’s not verifiable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One of the most critical skills that speech and debate teaches students is how to regulate their emotions in high-stress situations. Kyle, a freshman at Palo Alto High School, told me about a time he had to learn this firsthand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> I walked into my last round of the day and i thought i could finally breathe a sigh of relief but what ended up happening was my opponent was very good and she actually is quite well renowned for being a bit mean to her opponents and so the entire round she was screaming at the top of her lungs\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> It was really kind of a trial of my ability to stay calm because there were countless times where I wanted to like stand up and scream at her too but I didn’t end up doing that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I just want to emphasize Kyle is 14 years old, and he’s already mastered something that many adults struggle with: how to stay engaged in tough conversations without making them personal. He understands that debating an issue passionately doesn’t mean attacking the person on the other side. Last year’s presidential debates show how badly this lesson is needed\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Snipes from presidential debates]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kyle:\u003c/strong> Yeah, they do not follow the rules of debate in the presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Our politicians aren’t exactly setting the best example for constructive discussion. But students? They’re leading the way—debate by debate, tournament by tournament. Speech and Debate is giving them the space to practice not just the fundamentals of argumentation, but the fundamentals of democracy and strong relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> There are so many benefits to your students in starting this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Byron R. Arthur. He’s Board President of the National Speech and Debate Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> There’s some studies that have been done, particularly around young people of color or young people that are called, quote, unquote, at risk, where those students who’ve been involved in debate have significantly better academic and social behavioral outcomes than their similarly situated peers who do not. You’re going to see it in your test scores. You will see it in your attendance at school.You will see it in a decrease in suspensions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you’re listening to this and thinking, “I wish I had done debate in high school” or maybe “I wish my school had a debate program,” there’s good news. You don’t need to wait for an official team to get started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> if the question is, should we start one? My answer would be, oh, hell, yes! Reach out to the National Speech and Debate Association. Our goal is that every school in this country will one day have a speech and debate program. Every one of them. That’s what we’re aiming for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Byron R. Arthur:\u003c/strong> And so if a school wants to start it, there’s no excuse. There’s absolutely no excuse. Reach out to the office, reach out to the organization. And we’ve got people there who help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Before I went to this tournament, I thought debate was all about being the loudest, the most confident, the quickest on your feet. But after watching these students, I realized it’s actually about curiosity, the ability to hold two ideas in your head at once. The skill of truly listening. That’s something we could all use a little more of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Palo Alto High School: Kyle Hietala, Tessa, Motoko, Kyle the student and Holden. Thank you to Priya Garcia and Students at Leeland. Thank you to student at Archbishop Midi and Nueva, including Hannah. Thank you Byron R. Arthur\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Marnette Federis and Ki Sung. Our editor is Chris Hambrick, Seth Samuel is our sound designer, Jen Chien is our head of podcasts, Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Holly Kernan is KQED’s chief content officer. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. This episode was made possible by the Stuart Foundation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jessica Lifshitz noticed a shift in the writing stamina of her fifth graders in recent years. Students weren’t connecting to text-heavy personal narratives in the way that they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She couldn’t pinpoint the reason for this steady decline in writing stamina, but the disconnect was clear. “Our kids are just having a harder time writing longer pieces compared to what they used to be able to do,” said Lifshitz, who has been teaching for 21 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Looking at examples of writing and storytelling is an important element of building students’ literacy and writing skills. Since her students were struggling with the existing material, she decided to do something different: have her students rely on themselves and their voices for that narrative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, Lifshitz decided to introduce the first writing unit of the year using “\u003ca href=\"https://themoth.org/\">The Moth\u003c/a>,” the popular podcast, public radio program and event.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students spent six weeks listening to, watching, developing, writing and eventually recording their own stories. The unit was a success; it sparked the young readers’ and writers’ storytelling abilities and offered lessons in empathy, courage and multi-modal literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We certainly practice [responding to prompts about short readings] in other ways, but I also wanted to just bring the joy of storytelling back to kids,” said Lifshitz.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an age where writing in school is often focused on fulfilling standardized test requirements, personal narrative writing units can offer a more personalized approach to literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Personal Narrative Unit\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lifshitz starts the unit by introducing her students to examples of personal narratives from The Moth’s archives. The fifth graders then sample more of the pre-approved stories on their own. As the students listened to the stories, watched the videos and read the transcripts, they worked on annotating the text and answered questions like: What is this story about? How can this story help others?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then students brainstormed stories from their own lives and shared these stories with their peers. Lifshitz said the energy from her students during the brainstorming was palpable and resulted in stories with titles like, “When Petsitting Goes Wrong,” “The Hardest Math Problem” and “Grandpa and Grandma Day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Once each student landed on a story they wanted to develop further, they mapped them out using a graphic organizer and studied four storytelling strategies. “Snapshots” describe in detail things that could be seen; “Thought-shots” describe the thoughts and emotions that the writer was experiencing; “Exploding important moments” magnified significant parts of the story; And “Adding in reflection” encouraged students to share a lesson that their story could teach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, Lifshitz reflected on her own journey using The Moth in our latest episode of the MindShift Podcast. She describes the community of teachers she developed as she started sharing her own teaching stories with the world, and the difference it made in reigniting her excitement with teaching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As my voice found an audience, as our stories formed the basis for a strong community, my teaching began to change and I began to grow, and writing was such a huge part of that for me,” Lifshitz said in the podcast. “Maybe that is why storytelling is so important to me, because it was this storytelling that allowed me to connect with audiences, to develop community, to be challenged, to be exposed to others in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8799077194\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>The Moth Model\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Lifshitz developed her own unit, \u003ca href=\"https://themoth.org/the-moths-education-program\">The Moth has a curriculum for K-12 teachers\u003c/a> who are a part of their Teacher’s Lounge program. The Moth also hosts in-person afterschool and summer programs for teens, as well as virtual workshops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s rare for teens to find a space where they are free to tell their own stories, uninterrupted, for five minutes “unless you’re talking to the internet in a void,” said Ana Stern, The Moth’s senior manager of education. At the end of the eight-week sessions, the teens share their stories for the whole group. The “slam,” as they call it, is also recorded. The recordings are given to each student and they get to decide what they want to do with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some teens perform their story at the slam and never look at the recording again, said Stern, and that’s okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Stern, building a community comes first because storytelling can be a vulnerable experience. “We really spend a lot of time concentrating on building as brave and as safe a space as possible,” she said. And the program encourages students to lead with curiosity and withhold judgement when giving peer-to-peer feedback, she continued. Often, by the end of the eight-week program Stern hears feedback from students like, “I never thought my story would matter” and “I never thought I had anything to say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Through the workshop, they’re realizing not only do they have something to say, but they have folks who want to hear them as well,” said Stern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8799077194\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung, and with me today is MindShift reporter Marlena Jackson-Retondo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Hi, Ki.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi, Marlena. So you have a story today that’s about writing, but it’s really about something else. Tell us more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m here to tell you about a teacher named Jessica Lifshitz. Jessica has been teaching for two decades, but over time, she began to notice a shift in the writing stamina of her fifth graders. They were petering out and not really interested in writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Struggling with student engagement, that sounds like a really familiar problem teachers have, especially post pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Yeah, students weren’t connecting to traditional writing prompts for personal narratives in the way that they used to. Like how did the student spend their summer? What was their favorite memory? Something was missing, both from the text prompts and the student assignments, so she out an idea from the moth. In the moth, adults perform their stories in front of a live audience, usually about three stories per episode, and these stories are grouped by themes like timeless love, football, and grocery trips.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jess’s students read their moth-style stories about fifth grade stuff, with titles like When Pet Sitting Goes Wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>When I got into the backyard, I couldn’t find the pit bull. I was just like, oh my god, oh god, oh my God, oh God, Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo\u003c/strong>: Grandpa and grandma day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Grandma always makes the best lunches. Cucumbers, mango, watermelon, tuna, croissants, grapes. I would put it all on my plate and start making food monsters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo\u003c/strong>: And the hardest math problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker:\u003c/strong> Once, when I was doing math, my teacher introduced me to an indescribably hard math problem. If my head had a fuse, like where a bomb would be, it would blow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>We’ll tell you why Jessica wanted to do this after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Announcer: \u003c/strong>Support for MindShift comes from Landmark College. Landmark college’s fully online certificate in learning differences and neurodiversity provides educators with research-based skills and strategies that improve learning outcomes for neurodivergent students. Earn up to 15 graduate level credits and specialize in one of the following areas, post-secondary disability services, executive function, or autism on campus or online. Learn more at landmark.edu slash certificate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Teacher Jessica Lifshitz does something special in her classroom. Instead of having her students respond to boring writing prompts on paper, she has them tell stories about their lives to each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Okay Marlena, that sounds great. So what’s the real reason Jess has her students do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Well, I thought we’d get a little meta, so I asked Jess Lifshitz to do something a little different for you, our listeners. I asked just to tell the story of why she came to teach her students about narrative storytelling all of the month. She performed her piece in front of a tiny audience live near Chicago. Please welcome Jess Lifshitz.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Lifshitz:\u003c/strong> My students are storytellers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their stories fill the spaces in which we learn. And when I think of my storytellers, I think of one student in particular. She is a master storyteller and her name is Lucy. Every morning we begin our days with a check-in question, a quick way to ease into our morning, a way for everyone to have their voice heard before we dig into the harder work of the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The questions are simple. What is the thing you are most proud of or what is your biggest fear?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And Lucy, she turns every answer into an adventure. Like the time when the question asked about your scariest moment. And Lucy launched into the ordeal that ensued when her dog ran away and she searched her entire neighborhood to find her only to return home and find her dog waiting for her in the backyard. Or the time she was answering a question about the worst injury you’ve ever had and it turned into a five minute retelling. Or the time she was wrapped in a mermaid blanket and turned over in her bed and fell directly onto her humidifier, smacking her face and leaving her with a permanent scar on her cheek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is rarely a day that goes by where she doesn’t give us all a good story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now I’ve been a teacher for more than 20 years. In those 20 years, I have heard my share of childhood adventures told through the dramatic voices of my students. But in those 20 years, I have also had to read the often dry words of those same students as they write in response to the boring prompts that we are required to assign from time to time. You know the kind. Prompts like, ‘What is something you did this summer?’ Or ‘What is an important moment you spent with someone you love?’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know what it is, but something about those prompts just sucks the soul out of a story. All that heart, all that voice that students like Lucy naturally pour into their stories seems to disappear when they are asked to write those same stories out for an assignment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And after 20 years of watching the joy slip out of a story, I decided that I needed to do something to try to recapture the energy that filled my students’ stories when they were not writing for an an assignment, I wanted their classroom writing to be filled with the same kind of energy that filled every one of Lucy’s stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As I began to wrestle with how to bring this joy back to my students and to their stories, I started to think about my own history with writing. When I was a kid, I never saw myself as a writer. I saw writing as something I had to do, a task that I had complete. But at a certain point in my life, that changed. At some point, writing became a way for me to process the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Writing brought me peace. Writing became so much more than a task. It became a way to connect with myself and with others. Writing become a way for me to form community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So when did that happen? For me, that transformation occurred when I started to write about my life as a fifth grade literacy teacher. This was in the days when the internet was a kinder place, when blogging wasn’t a career, when we weren’t worried about being influencers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And this amazing thing happened through my writing. In a time when I felt isolated as a teacher, stagnant and bored with the teaching I was doing, I found others who opened up a whole new world for me through the sharing of their stories. I read the stories of others and they inspired me to think about teaching in a whole way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As my voice found an audience, as our stories formed the basis for a strong community, my teaching began to change and I began to grow. And writing was such a huge part of that for me. Maybe that is why storytelling is so important to me, because it was this storytelling that allowed me to connect with audiences, to develop community, to be challenged, to be exposed to others in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was fine until I learned what else was out there. And then I became better because of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That is what I wanted for my students. I wanted my students to see storytelling as a way to connect with others. As a way to feel less alone in this world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I started to think about how to cultivate the same kind of experience for my students. And I kept thinking about the role that an audience plays in our storytelling. When our stories have a place to land, a place where they matter and can cause others to see the world in a new or different way, that is when our stories feel the most worthwhile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in all those boring writing prompts, the only audience my students saw for their stories was me, their teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I needed to find a way to give them an audience beyond just me and to make their stories matter. And as I started to think about telling stories for an audience, my mind began to wander to one of my favorite public radio podcasts, the Moth Radio Hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How many times did I sat in my car at the end of a long day needing to hear the end of a Moth radio hour story? Sometimes those driveway moments were filled with laughter and sometimes with tears, but every one of those moments had one thing in common, a compelling story told in front of an audience that caused me to feel something in connection with the person telling the story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was those thoughts of the purpose of storytelling and of the Moth radio hour that led me to the realization that this year, my fifth graders and I would start our writing year with our very own Moth story hour. We would find a way to tell our stories, to use our stories to connect us, to learn from one another’s stories and to build our classroom community on the foundation of the stories that we would share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have a lot of hopes for my students and I had a lot hopes of what a Moth Story Hour might be able to do for my student and for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Let me share a few of those hopes with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hope number one. In a world where far too much of the writing we ask our students to do in school is connected to the tests that they will take, it is my hope that my students can find a way to use writing to connect us to each other instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hope number two, it is hope that if my students are able to feel the ways in which writing can serve a genuine purpose, that it can make them better, they will see the other benefits of writing on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, hope number three is really a hope for myself and my fellow educators. In order for our students to be able to feel the ways in which writing can serve these genuine purposes, we as educators must have the freedom to craft for our student the kinds of writing experiences that cultivate those possibilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for me and for my fifth grade students, the Moth story hour was just that kind of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> That was Jess Lifshitz, a fifth grade teacher near Chicago. When I talked with her earlier this year, she said that this revamped writing unit not only allowed her students to connect with their own stories, but also help them develop empathy for one another. And who doesn’t love that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Sounds like a happy ending. Thanks Marlena for sharing that story with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>That was MindShift reporter Marlena Jackson-Retondo. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson- Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, and Maha Sanad. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jessica Lifshitz noticed a shift in the writing stamina of her fifth graders in recent years. Students weren’t connecting to text-heavy personal narratives in the way that they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She couldn’t pinpoint the reason for this steady decline in writing stamina, but the disconnect was clear. “Our kids are just having a harder time writing longer pieces compared to what they used to be able to do,” said Lifshitz, who has been teaching for 21 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Looking at examples of writing and storytelling is an important element of building students’ literacy and writing skills. Since her students were struggling with the existing material, she decided to do something different: have her students rely on themselves and their voices for that narrative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, Lifshitz decided to introduce the first writing unit of the year using “\u003ca href=\"https://themoth.org/\">The Moth\u003c/a>,” the popular podcast, public radio program and event.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students spent six weeks listening to, watching, developing, writing and eventually recording their own stories. The unit was a success; it sparked the young readers’ and writers’ storytelling abilities and offered lessons in empathy, courage and multi-modal literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We certainly practice [responding to prompts about short readings] in other ways, but I also wanted to just bring the joy of storytelling back to kids,” said Lifshitz.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an age where writing in school is often focused on fulfilling standardized test requirements, personal narrative writing units can offer a more personalized approach to literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Personal Narrative Unit\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lifshitz starts the unit by introducing her students to examples of personal narratives from The Moth’s archives. The fifth graders then sample more of the pre-approved stories on their own. As the students listened to the stories, watched the videos and read the transcripts, they worked on annotating the text and answered questions like: What is this story about? How can this story help others?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then students brainstormed stories from their own lives and shared these stories with their peers. Lifshitz said the energy from her students during the brainstorming was palpable and resulted in stories with titles like, “When Petsitting Goes Wrong,” “The Hardest Math Problem” and “Grandpa and Grandma Day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Once each student landed on a story they wanted to develop further, they mapped them out using a graphic organizer and studied four storytelling strategies. “Snapshots” describe in detail things that could be seen; “Thought-shots” describe the thoughts and emotions that the writer was experiencing; “Exploding important moments” magnified significant parts of the story; And “Adding in reflection” encouraged students to share a lesson that their story could teach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, Lifshitz reflected on her own journey using The Moth in our latest episode of the MindShift Podcast. She describes the community of teachers she developed as she started sharing her own teaching stories with the world, and the difference it made in reigniting her excitement with teaching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As my voice found an audience, as our stories formed the basis for a strong community, my teaching began to change and I began to grow, and writing was such a huge part of that for me,” Lifshitz said in the podcast. “Maybe that is why storytelling is so important to me, because it was this storytelling that allowed me to connect with audiences, to develop community, to be challenged, to be exposed to others in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8799077194\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>The Moth Model\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Lifshitz developed her own unit, \u003ca href=\"https://themoth.org/the-moths-education-program\">The Moth has a curriculum for K-12 teachers\u003c/a> who are a part of their Teacher’s Lounge program. The Moth also hosts in-person afterschool and summer programs for teens, as well as virtual workshops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s rare for teens to find a space where they are free to tell their own stories, uninterrupted, for five minutes “unless you’re talking to the internet in a void,” said Ana Stern, The Moth’s senior manager of education. At the end of the eight-week sessions, the teens share their stories for the whole group. The “slam,” as they call it, is also recorded. The recordings are given to each student and they get to decide what they want to do with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some teens perform their story at the slam and never look at the recording again, said Stern, and that’s okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Stern, building a community comes first because storytelling can be a vulnerable experience. “We really spend a lot of time concentrating on building as brave and as safe a space as possible,” she said. And the program encourages students to lead with curiosity and withhold judgement when giving peer-to-peer feedback, she continued. Often, by the end of the eight-week program Stern hears feedback from students like, “I never thought my story would matter” and “I never thought I had anything to say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Through the workshop, they’re realizing not only do they have something to say, but they have folks who want to hear them as well,” said Stern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8799077194\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung, and with me today is MindShift reporter Marlena Jackson-Retondo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Hi, Ki.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi, Marlena. So you have a story today that’s about writing, but it’s really about something else. Tell us more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m here to tell you about a teacher named Jessica Lifshitz. Jessica has been teaching for two decades, but over time, she began to notice a shift in the writing stamina of her fifth graders. They were petering out and not really interested in writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Struggling with student engagement, that sounds like a really familiar problem teachers have, especially post pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Yeah, students weren’t connecting to traditional writing prompts for personal narratives in the way that they used to. Like how did the student spend their summer? What was their favorite memory? Something was missing, both from the text prompts and the student assignments, so she out an idea from the moth. In the moth, adults perform their stories in front of a live audience, usually about three stories per episode, and these stories are grouped by themes like timeless love, football, and grocery trips.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jess’s students read their moth-style stories about fifth grade stuff, with titles like When Pet Sitting Goes Wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>When I got into the backyard, I couldn’t find the pit bull. I was just like, oh my god, oh god, oh my God, oh God, Oh my God.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo\u003c/strong>: Grandpa and grandma day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Grandma always makes the best lunches. Cucumbers, mango, watermelon, tuna, croissants, grapes. I would put it all on my plate and start making food monsters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo\u003c/strong>: And the hardest math problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker:\u003c/strong> Once, when I was doing math, my teacher introduced me to an indescribably hard math problem. If my head had a fuse, like where a bomb would be, it would blow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>We’ll tell you why Jessica wanted to do this after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Announcer: \u003c/strong>Support for MindShift comes from Landmark College. Landmark college’s fully online certificate in learning differences and neurodiversity provides educators with research-based skills and strategies that improve learning outcomes for neurodivergent students. Earn up to 15 graduate level credits and specialize in one of the following areas, post-secondary disability services, executive function, or autism on campus or online. Learn more at landmark.edu slash certificate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Teacher Jessica Lifshitz does something special in her classroom. Instead of having her students respond to boring writing prompts on paper, she has them tell stories about their lives to each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Okay Marlena, that sounds great. So what’s the real reason Jess has her students do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Well, I thought we’d get a little meta, so I asked Jess Lifshitz to do something a little different for you, our listeners. I asked just to tell the story of why she came to teach her students about narrative storytelling all of the month. She performed her piece in front of a tiny audience live near Chicago. Please welcome Jess Lifshitz.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Lifshitz:\u003c/strong> My students are storytellers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their stories fill the spaces in which we learn. And when I think of my storytellers, I think of one student in particular. She is a master storyteller and her name is Lucy. Every morning we begin our days with a check-in question, a quick way to ease into our morning, a way for everyone to have their voice heard before we dig into the harder work of the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The questions are simple. What is the thing you are most proud of or what is your biggest fear?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And Lucy, she turns every answer into an adventure. Like the time when the question asked about your scariest moment. And Lucy launched into the ordeal that ensued when her dog ran away and she searched her entire neighborhood to find her only to return home and find her dog waiting for her in the backyard. Or the time she was answering a question about the worst injury you’ve ever had and it turned into a five minute retelling. Or the time she was wrapped in a mermaid blanket and turned over in her bed and fell directly onto her humidifier, smacking her face and leaving her with a permanent scar on her cheek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is rarely a day that goes by where she doesn’t give us all a good story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now I’ve been a teacher for more than 20 years. In those 20 years, I have heard my share of childhood adventures told through the dramatic voices of my students. But in those 20 years, I have also had to read the often dry words of those same students as they write in response to the boring prompts that we are required to assign from time to time. You know the kind. Prompts like, ‘What is something you did this summer?’ Or ‘What is an important moment you spent with someone you love?’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know what it is, but something about those prompts just sucks the soul out of a story. All that heart, all that voice that students like Lucy naturally pour into their stories seems to disappear when they are asked to write those same stories out for an assignment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And after 20 years of watching the joy slip out of a story, I decided that I needed to do something to try to recapture the energy that filled my students’ stories when they were not writing for an an assignment, I wanted their classroom writing to be filled with the same kind of energy that filled every one of Lucy’s stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As I began to wrestle with how to bring this joy back to my students and to their stories, I started to think about my own history with writing. When I was a kid, I never saw myself as a writer. I saw writing as something I had to do, a task that I had complete. But at a certain point in my life, that changed. At some point, writing became a way for me to process the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Writing brought me peace. Writing became so much more than a task. It became a way to connect with myself and with others. Writing become a way for me to form community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So when did that happen? For me, that transformation occurred when I started to write about my life as a fifth grade literacy teacher. This was in the days when the internet was a kinder place, when blogging wasn’t a career, when we weren’t worried about being influencers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And this amazing thing happened through my writing. In a time when I felt isolated as a teacher, stagnant and bored with the teaching I was doing, I found others who opened up a whole new world for me through the sharing of their stories. I read the stories of others and they inspired me to think about teaching in a whole way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As my voice found an audience, as our stories formed the basis for a strong community, my teaching began to change and I began to grow. And writing was such a huge part of that for me. Maybe that is why storytelling is so important to me, because it was this storytelling that allowed me to connect with audiences, to develop community, to be challenged, to be exposed to others in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was fine until I learned what else was out there. And then I became better because of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That is what I wanted for my students. I wanted my students to see storytelling as a way to connect with others. As a way to feel less alone in this world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I started to think about how to cultivate the same kind of experience for my students. And I kept thinking about the role that an audience plays in our storytelling. When our stories have a place to land, a place where they matter and can cause others to see the world in a new or different way, that is when our stories feel the most worthwhile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in all those boring writing prompts, the only audience my students saw for their stories was me, their teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I needed to find a way to give them an audience beyond just me and to make their stories matter. And as I started to think about telling stories for an audience, my mind began to wander to one of my favorite public radio podcasts, the Moth Radio Hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How many times did I sat in my car at the end of a long day needing to hear the end of a Moth radio hour story? Sometimes those driveway moments were filled with laughter and sometimes with tears, but every one of those moments had one thing in common, a compelling story told in front of an audience that caused me to feel something in connection with the person telling the story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was those thoughts of the purpose of storytelling and of the Moth radio hour that led me to the realization that this year, my fifth graders and I would start our writing year with our very own Moth story hour. We would find a way to tell our stories, to use our stories to connect us, to learn from one another’s stories and to build our classroom community on the foundation of the stories that we would share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have a lot of hopes for my students and I had a lot hopes of what a Moth Story Hour might be able to do for my student and for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Let me share a few of those hopes with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hope number one. In a world where far too much of the writing we ask our students to do in school is connected to the tests that they will take, it is my hope that my students can find a way to use writing to connect us to each other instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hope number two, it is hope that if my students are able to feel the ways in which writing can serve a genuine purpose, that it can make them better, they will see the other benefits of writing on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, hope number three is really a hope for myself and my fellow educators. In order for our students to be able to feel the ways in which writing can serve these genuine purposes, we as educators must have the freedom to craft for our student the kinds of writing experiences that cultivate those possibilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for me and for my fifth grade students, the Moth story hour was just that kind of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> That was Jess Lifshitz, a fifth grade teacher near Chicago. When I talked with her earlier this year, she said that this revamped writing unit not only allowed her students to connect with their own stories, but also help them develop empathy for one another. And who doesn’t love that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Sounds like a happy ending. Thanks Marlena for sharing that story with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>That was MindShift reporter Marlena Jackson-Retondo. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson- Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, and Maha Sanad. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"headTitle": "How Better Conversations Can Help Fight Misinformation and Build Media Literacy | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As he was scrolling through social media, Steve Saltwick came across a video of protesting students ripping up the Constitution. “I’m a conservative,” said Saltwick, who works at \u003ca href=\"https://braverangels.org/\">Braver Angels\u003c/a>, a national nonprofit focused on bridging political divides. “The Constitution is a pretty serious document for me. So with righteous indignation, I [reposted] it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the video was fake. “I fell for it immediately,” he admitted. The experience drove home just how easy it is to be misled and how crucial it is to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">think critically about the media we consume\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sxswedu.com/\">2025 SXSW EDU conference\u003c/a>, a panel moderated by MindShift brought together experts on media literacy to discuss what young people and the adults who teach them need now. Panelists included Saltwick, a senior fellow of Braver Angels; \u003ca href=\"https://www.tannerhiggin.com/\">Tanner Higgin\u003c/a>, a senior educational technology researcher at WestEd; and Kiera Beddes, a Utah-based digital teaching and learning specialist. Together, they painted a picture of how media literacy has evolved and how educators can make it a meaningful, integrated part of their teaching.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Media literacy is for everyone\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Media literacy has traditionally been associated with fact-checking and spotting misinformation. But as Higgin pointed out, it has often been framed around fear, particularly in response to the spread of new technology. Sometimes it can seem like setting up fences, he said, about how there is often an emphasis on making sure students can filter information. “We can be less reactive and more proactive in media literacy education,” added Higgin. Today media literacy also includes understanding how identity, community and algorithms shape our experience of information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While media literacy can seem politically charged, its core goals are widely shared. Words like “fake news” or “misinformation” may raise alarms, but “everyone wants kids to be knowledgeable, thoughtful, critical thinkers,” said Higgin. He cited data from \u003ca href=\"https://medialiteracynow.org/nationalsurvey2022/\">Media Literacy Now that said 84%\u003c/a> of surveyed adults believe media literacy should be a required part of school, while a study from the \u003ca href=\"https://newslit.org/news-literacy-in-america/\">News Literacy Project found that 94%\u003c/a> of teens agree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread support, many educators feel unsure how to approach the topic, especially in polarized environments. Beddes noted that most teachers don’t have a background in media studies, and discomfort around addressing controversial topics can lead to media literacy being sidelined. \u003ca href=\"https://digitalthriving.gse.harvard.edu/\">The Center for Digital Thriving\u003c/a> offers a possible solution with resources that help educators take a nonpartisan, student-led approach, including classroom-ready lesson plans and teacher training.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Build a Culture of Respectful Conversation\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Media literacy isn’t just about analyzing content; it also requires students to discuss what they’re seeing and feeling, especially when they disagree. “What we find is many people are hesitant to share a view, especially a view that might be in the minority in a given group,” said Saltwick. “But with a few simple techniques, you can really get a good dialogue going to make sure all these perspectives are heard.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Saltwick recommended using a clear structure for these conversations. He teaches the LAPP technique — Listen, Acknowledge, Pivot, Perspective — as a way to model respectful disagreement and build trust. “The tenor of the conversation changes dramatically,” he said. “So it’s not a battle of wills: ‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’ It’s ‘let’s understand.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beddes agreed that structure can help students navigate difficult discussions. She provides sentence stems to help them express curiosity and respond without escalating conflict. In her classroom, she also uses the \u003ca href=\"https://static1.squarespace.com/static/63335c5039fd1568331b8332/t/67b758dd1695b75d62b81307/1740069086806/DI+Card+v2.2.pdf\">Dignity Index\u003c/a>, a tool that evaluates the tone of speech, to help students ground their arguments in mutual respect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When media literacy conversations touch on identity, they can be particularly challenging. “False belief systems, conspiracy theories, can fuse to people’s identities now. And that is something that any number of skills can’t unwind,” said Higgin. “That’s why I think media literacy needs to not just be about skills—it needs to be about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54286/how-a-school-prioritizes-character-as-much-as-academics\">character\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">social-emotional learning\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Use Real Media, Not Hypotheticals\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>To be effective, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">media literacy education must engage with the actual media\u003c/a> students encounter in their daily lives. While there are tools that recreate media and try to approximate what a newsfeed would look like, “it can be very challenging to get something that feels authentic,” said Higgin. “We need to increasingly figure out how to manage the privacy and safety and maturity level of kids, but get them as much exposure to the actual media and thinking through the media in authentic environments as possible.” That includes analyzing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62233/how-to-help-your-kids-navigate-social-media-without-getting-lost\">social media platforms\u003c/a> students already use since algorithms often present a partial view of a topic as if it’s the whole truth and may reinforce students’ existing beliefs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To push back against those filters, Saltwick leads an activity called \u003cem>Walk a Mile in My News,\u003c/em> in which students exchange the media they consume, such as a favorite news outlet or influencer, and reflect on the differences in perspective. Exploring news sources outside of their usual echo chambers helps students realize what perspectives might be missing from their own sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beddes offered a similar activity to encourage critical thinking and highlight bias. She shares \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62710/like-it-or-not-kids-hear-the-news-heres-how-teachers-help-them-understand-it\">news articles\u003c/a> from outlets with different political leanings, removes the names of the publications and authors and asks students to guess the source. “It’s helping the students recognize who’s not part of this conversation,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, starting small can make the work more sustainable and more impactful. That could mean doing a short “media moment” where students reflect on how a recent viral post relates to what they’re learning in history or science. According to Beddes, resources like The \u003ca href=\"https://newslit.org/educators/sift/\">SIFT newsletter from the News Literacy Project\u003c/a> can support this kind of integration by providing timely examples and analysis of real media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teachers are often hesitant to take on media literacy because it can feel like another box to check, but Beddes says it doesn’t have to be that way. “Make media the lens through which you teach your subject matter so that it is not just another thing,” she advised.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5161212251\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Welcome to Mind Shift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. This year, I went to the South by Southwest EDU conference in Austin, Texas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I moderated a panel all about media literacy and I got to talk to three amazing people who are really thinking about this work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Hey everybody, I’m Tanner Higgin. I’m a senior educational technology researcher at WestEd which is a large and old education research organization focused on all ages and stages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>Hi everyone, my name is Kiera Beddes. I’m a digital teaching and learning specialist in Utah. Been in education for about 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> And my name is Steve Saltwick and I volunteer pretty much full time for an organization called Braver Angels, which is a national nonprofit totally focused on bridging the political divide in all demographic areas because we feel that is essential in strengthening our democratic republic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Together, they brought a lot of insight and heart to that conversation. And today we’re sharing an excerpt of that panel. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I wanted to start with a question that you all could answer about a moment that made you realize how important media literacy is today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> Right after the mass shooting at the Marjory Stoner Douglas, where several of the students became quite active and well-known on social media. I remember seeing a post on my social feeds of those students ripping up a copy of the Constitution. And I’m a conservative. I mean, the Constitution’s a pretty serious document for me. So with righteous indignation, I posted this thing. And then came to find out from several of my friends who posted saying that’s a fake video and it just absolutely stunned me. So I withdrew, you know, I apologized it withdrew the post You know, and it made me really think my goodness How powerful a video image was of something like that and I fell for it immediately. I realized I needed to be a lot more mature, if you will, I guess in the way I consumed media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I have kind of a similar experience. I was at my nail tech and I was a captive audience because, you know, when you’re there for a couple of hours getting your nails done. And she’d be telling me, “Oh, I saw this thing on TikTok and isn’t that the craziest thing you’ve ever heard?” And I’d be like, “I don’t think that’s real.” And so one-handedly I’d be like hurriedly like googling something on my phone So I could be like this article says that’s not true or or these things also say kind of the opposite and so it was this really kind of aha moment that I had where She was seeing things and her algorithm was telling her things that were not crossing my dashboard And I just realized that like oh if she is is thinking these things and having these conversations in her home, what does that look like in my classroom? What are my kids seeing and what’s impacting them? And I realized the skills of lateral reading, of fact checking, but even going beyond that to say why is it so easy to kind of fall for these things? And so that was my aha moment. I was like, this is important and we need to do more about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it may come at this from a different angle, which is, my academic background is more in the media studies world. And one thing I love about media literacy is that when done well, it sort of unlocks a whole new layer of meaning in the world. The world comes alive once you start to understand audiovisual media and how to interpret it and unpack it. And the different systems for understanding that by looking at the medium itself, right, as part of the architecture of the meaning of something. I had some great intro to film professors who sort of gave me this new media studies and media literacy lens, tapped into the, you know, the whole notion of film language, and it felt like I’d been let into this sort of secret knowledge that exists and can really make meaning everywhere you look once you tap into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you. And I do want to start with asking you a question, Tanner, because you actually brought to my attention when we were first discussing this session that media literacy has transformed throughout time because our world is also changing. Like the technology that we have, even in the past like two years, has grown by leaps and bounds. So can you kind of frame for us the way that media literacy has evolved over time? Maybe even what historical trends have shaped the way that we teach it today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> What I love about media literacy is that it kind of reflects culture at that time, but then shapes it as well. Media literacy education, interestingly, is a whole other thing. And it really grows out of policy. And policy, as I think everyone knows, especially in education, often, needs to get pushed. And it often gets pushed from a standpoint of fear, I would argue, especially media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> You know, these new technologies pop up and with it you see a new spark and interest in media literacy but it’s often from a feeling of “We need to do something for the children because this new technology is scary and is transforming everything we see.” You know, television to internet, web publishing, eroding the whole idea of authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Whereas traditional literacy, ELA kind of instruction is all about like building bridges, opening up worlds for kids to like see and read the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Media literacy education when it gets operationalized through policy is like setting up fences. Like let’s protect and filter information and let’s make sure kids have that capability—Very, very important, but it cuts off all of the amazing extraordinary aspects of media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> So that’s kinda been my passion. And the way I sort of think through media history, media literacy history is this battle between what happens in the media studies world and what happens in the Media Literacy Education world. And how maybe we can be less reactive and more proactive in media literacy education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to bring it to Kiera, who I’m so happy to have on this panel, because I feel like when we get up in theories and ideas, you being at school really brings us back down to the rubber meets the road, ‘what does this look like in classrooms?’ So can you maybe talk about some of the challenges that you’re seeing with media literacy in your position in schools?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> The biggest thing that teachers are always gonna say is that they need time. And then also, they say I can’t add one more thing onto my plate. And so the problem with that though is that when we see media literacy as some sort of other, then it gets left by the wayside because they’re gonna focus on their content.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>Whereas like I try to emphasize with my teachers, media literacy isn’t another thing, it becomes the lens through which you can teach your content. Media literacy, when it’s done well, you’re not just looking at the film or the message or the content of whatever you’re looking at, whatever media that you’re interacting with, but you’re also looking at the form and the choices that were made in production that impact how you, the viewer, you, the consumer, interacts with that media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you, and I’m curious, Steve, if you have anything to add to that, because I know that Braver Angels is in the business of creating containers for better conversations, which I think is a big part of media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>What we’re focused on is the idea that everyone has a perspective and a point of view, including the media you consume. We have one program called Walk a Mile in My News. So you take two people who have very different viewpoints, and they actually switch the kinds of media they consume. And then they talk about that. And they realize, well, wait a minute, I’m missing things, because I’m not reading what the other person is reading, and much of this is not that one is right or one is wrong, it’s just to appreciate the fact that others have perspectives that are quite different from you, and if you have ground rules that set the stage for a respectful dialog about that, you can really get to a further appreciation of what the topic is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>I’ve heard of other teachers doing activities where they have their students swap phones and go through each other’s feeds to see what are you seeing? How is it different from what I’m seeing? Kiera, have you seen any activities that have actually been successful in having students realize that what I see is not what everybody sees?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I’ve heard teachers where they will print out articles and they remove all identifying features of the article so that they’re just looking at the language that is used in the article. And based on the word choice, you can kind of see, oh, based on how they’re talking about this topic, you can guess, is it left leaning, is right leaning? And it kind of calls to mind the ultimate promise of media literacy, which is like looking at the form, right? What is the structure and how is it used and what choices are being used. But there’s also perspectives that are noticeably absent and it’s helping the students recognize who’s not part of this conversation. Just being aware of like, oh, there is more to this and how can I go out and find that missing perspective and bring it in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And I want to bring you into this too, Tanner. Are there tech tools or ed tech tools that can kind of foster this idea that, like I might be seeing like a certain thing, but I am aware that there is a bigger story or a bigger narrative out there beyond what I see on my own feeds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Since I would say 2016, there’s been a growing sector within ed tech specifically focused on various approaches to what one might call fake news. I’m of two minds about these tools because I think one of the tricky things with media literacy in particular is if the medium is the message. Then you need to engage with the medium to understand it. Tools that recreate media and try and like, especially for younger kids, approximate what a newsfeed would look like. I think it can be very challenging to get something that feels authentic to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>My recommendation is when possible to get kids engaging with the actual media itself. Otherwise, it’s like you’re teaching film studies by having students reading film synopses or something instead of looking at the actual film.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>I think we need to increasingly figure out how to manage privacy and safety and maturity level of kids, but get them as much exposure to the actual media and thinking through the media in authentic environments as possible, because that’s what’s actually gonna serve them well when they are. You know, maybe sneaking some usage of things that we otherwise might not approve of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When you were speaking, my brain snagged on, you mentioned fake news and I think even the words misinformation and disinformation can be kind of like politically coded and can feel a little bit divisive. Media literacy, I think we talked about this too, can be a non-partisan issue. What are some shared concerns that parents and educators across ideological lines can actually come together on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I think particularly at this moment in time, it can feel like in education, there’s no common ground. But media literacy is one of, it has universal support. I think it’s somewhere around, media literacy now did a survey, like 84% of adults think it should be required in classrooms. And when you ask teens, 94% think it should be require in classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Everyone wants kids to be knowledgeable, thoughtful, critical thinkers. I mean, everyone wants that. It’s at the heart of education, right? Media literacy is at the core of what we want education to do, which is to empower people to be self-determined, to think for themselves, and to explore and engage with the world thoughtfully. There is no debate around whether that’s important or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I would add to that, for the average teacher, they don’t have the background of media studies to then feel comfortable talking about it in their classes. And so it gets put onto the wayside. And so I think it’s interesting that we see this universal need for it. But then the question is, how do we empower teachers to do it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> What we find in the classroom, both in secondary schools and university, and really adults as well, is that with a few simple techniques, you can really get a good dialog going to make sure all these perspectives are heard and things like that. I mean, so a couple of just simple ground rules, right, of respectful conversation, especially body language, so no rolling of your eyes, sighing and things that, and just state them is a big deal. And then what we use is a very simple technique called LAPP for listen, acknowledge, pivot and perspective. And really the main thing about all of that is that the speaker needs to feel that they are understood. So when you listen, you’re not listening to frame a reply, you’re listening to understand. In Texas we call it, you listen to understand not reload. You know, and so, and that’s hard work. That’s hard, right? And then the pivot is to actually ask permission before you share your perspective. So someone would say, I hear you. This is what, you know, there’s an element I agree with. At the very least, you can say, it’s clearly an emotional topic for you. And then along, something along the lines of, you know I’ve been doing some reading on this, or I’ve seen some things on this. Would you mind if I share my perspective? And then if the other person says, sure, well then you now have permission to share a differing perspective. And that is handled differently than if the first reply you have is let me tell you my perspective, let me you what the truth is, right? That’s gonna be resisted. We find that as an amazingly powerful technique to use in these discussions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>It sounds like that process slows down the conversation in a way where it’s not as reactive. And that seems like a really important component of a conversation not kind of devolving into, I don’t know, finger pointing or talking past each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>What we find is many people are hesitant to share a view, especially a view that might be in the minority in a given group, right? And if they feel heard, if someone says what you’re saying is blah, right, whether you agree with blah or not, right. But I now feel heard. Then there’s all sorts of trust that starts being built. There’s all sorts of personalization that starts being built. And the tenor of the conversation changes dramatically. So it’s not a battle of wills. “I’m right, you’re wrong.” It’s “Let’s understand each other” because both of us probably missed something in understanding this complicated thing, whatever it is, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And I wonder, this is maybe something that Steve, you, and maybe Kiera, you as well, can weigh in on. I do feel like when we get into things that are related to maybe identity, social identity, things that are seen as values or like close to personhood, those can get really, really emotional very fast and they’re kind of unwieldy. It can be hard, I would think as an educator, to facilitate those conversations, and I know it’s really hard to be in those conversations. Do you have any strategies for, it sounds like LAPP could work for something like that. Are there any other things you’ve found that work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> One of my favorites, and it sounds so simple, but having sentence stems available for students… I’ve seen elementary school teachers through middle and high school, when you’re going to have a conversation, and if it’s going to be about a heated topic, you have kind of these sentence starters of like, okay, I see where you’re coming from, or this is my perspective, or. And there’s like a whole list of them. But I think it helps give students a framework for having a conversation, right? And I loved what you said about slowing the conversation down because a lot of what we see online is people share immediately out of strong emotion, right, either anger or fear or whatever the case may be. And so slowing down the reaction and really getting at “why do I react this way? Why am I feeling this way?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> One thing we’ve found with Braver Angels is that the importance of structure, right? So we will have some simple ground rules and there’s also a clear structure to the conversation. You know, here’s what we’re doing, here is how we’re going to do it, you know, here’s some very simple ground roles but it’s not just a free for all of everybody jumping in, talking over one another, all of that. By having ground rules and a structure to the conversation, you create a much open space for people to share their ideas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Tanner, was there anything you wanted to add to that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> I’m really struck by this notion of identity and values and how it comes into play in the interpretation of media and how we receive it and understand it and what we cling to. And one thing I’ve really been doing a lot of thinking about is like, I picture this as a relatively modern phenomenon, I think spurred by social media and how as a medium, conditions culture in a way, where false beliefs, false belief systems, conspiracy theories, can fuse to people’s identities now. And that is something that any number of skills can’t unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>You can teach people in that position all of the media literacy skills in the world and Dana Boyd had a great talk on this, titled, “Did Media Literacy Backfire?” because she was observing how in some of these communities, critical thinking skills get applied. They just go the wrong way. But I believe, I hypothesize, that to untether false belief from identity takes humility. And that is in very short supply in the world of social media. We’re almost conditioned against it. And people with false beliefs that are tethered to their identity, it becomes like their entire world can come crumbling down if they are to take a different view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>And that’s why I think media literacy needs to not just be about skills, it needs to be about character. And social-emotional learning and that I haven’t seen many approaches that really take that seriously. I think there are some but I think a lot more work to be done and there’s a lot of research to be done in maybe proving me correct or half correct or completely false.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>That does make me think of, Kiera, you posed a question when you were answering a question earlier, which was teachers need to be kind of empowered to kind of take on media literacy. And from what Tanner said, it is kind of a tall order. What do you think teachers need to get that work started?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>My answer to this is always to start small, because I don’t want to overwhelm teachers, but I do want to start, right? Find a direction and head in that direction. The resources, The SIFT from the news literacy project, so it’s a newsletter they put out each week. In it, they have rumor guard where they take a viral piece of media and they break down why it went viral and what was true and what is false and kind of helping reinforce those skills. That we want our students to gain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>And I think something as simple as a media moment, right? Where a teacher could be a classroom starter, it could be an exit ticket, it could anything that you just have two minutes, three minutes, pop up a piece of media, and this can be anything, right, because text is very broadly based. But then you have your students practice those skills, you’re reinforcing those skills. And as a teacher, you don’t have to have a degree in media analyzes, but you’re helping them break down not only what are they seeing, like what is the content, but you also ask them questions about how it was created and what is meaning behind how it is created.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> MindShift is all about solutions. I think it’s easy to get kind of mired in the work that needs to be done. But I’m wondering, for all three of you, if you can share an example of someone who’s doing this work well, whether it’s an organization or an experience that you’ve had where it’s gone really positively. You got one, Steve?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>Well, I would say Braver Angels, right? I mean, what a layup, okay, right, but I certainly know one thing that strikes me about Braver Angels. It started in 2016 where a group of Trump voters and a group Hillary voters got very worried about the state of the country and it was all adults, right-typically retired adults and all of that. And then subsequently has branched out to college campuses, high schools, some middle schools. And we do workshops, and I’ve moderated many of those workshops. I’ve probably seen about 100 workshops, and probably 20%, 30% of them have been in the high school and college area. What always strikes me is really unbelievable is the thirst that I see in students to have real conversations about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I have two that came to mind. One is very similar to the work that Braver Angels is doing, so the Dignity Index, they’ve developed this ranking scale of public speech and whether or not it gives dignity to the people that they’re talking about, which is a fascinating way of looking at how we talk about other people, especially people we disagree with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>You can look at articles, you can look at speech, you can also look at conversations between students, right? What kind of dignity are you offering the other person and how are you validating their perspective? So that’s one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>The second one and I’m not just saying this but I honestly believe this: KQED teach has a whole bunch of mini courses for educators about this very topic. One is how to teach students how to look at the form and how to analyze media and how did look at bias and And how to like share their perspectives, which is great. That’s kind of the back end, the theory behind media literacy. But then they also offer very practical, like, this is how to do video projects in your class. This is how do photo projects in our class. Like you learn the theory and then you apply it and I love it. So those are my two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> We did not pay Kiera to say that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I honestly love it so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> I’ll point to the Center for Digital Thriving out of Harvard, I think, is doing some really path-breaking work around digital well-being specifically, which I think is an increasingly important part of media literacy, is getting students to reflect on the presence of smartphones in their lives and to think critically about it and decide for themselves what purpose it should serve and if it’s serving those purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>And to that end, that research group at the Center for Digital Thriving developed an activity that’s rooted in Harvard’s long-term Project Zero Thinking Routines framework, like real simple pedagogical moves anyone can apply to just about any learning scenario. And they’ve developed one of these called The Value Sort, where you get students to choose from a big board of values which ones kind of represent them, like which ones they hold really dear. And then you can use that as a sort of critical lens to apply to just about anything in the media world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>So their example is using that value sort to get students to think about their usage of smartphones, track like what they’re doing on their smartphones, and then go, hey, remember those values that you hold dear? Like how are those being represented in that activity or not, right? And I think that’s a way of. Of providing students with a really interesting lens to make sure that like what they’re consuming and doing is in standing with what they truly believe and their image of themselves. And I think that’s like, to me that’s a picture of the future of media literacy is this merging of traditional critical thinking skills with values and character-based education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Can we give a round of applause to our panelists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That was Tanner Higgin, Kiera Bettes, and Steve Saltwick at the SXSW EDU Conference in Austin, Texas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As he was scrolling through social media, Steve Saltwick came across a video of protesting students ripping up the Constitution. “I’m a conservative,” said Saltwick, who works at \u003ca href=\"https://braverangels.org/\">Braver Angels\u003c/a>, a national nonprofit focused on bridging political divides. “The Constitution is a pretty serious document for me. So with righteous indignation, I [reposted] it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the video was fake. “I fell for it immediately,” he admitted. The experience drove home just how easy it is to be misled and how crucial it is to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">think critically about the media we consume\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sxswedu.com/\">2025 SXSW EDU conference\u003c/a>, a panel moderated by MindShift brought together experts on media literacy to discuss what young people and the adults who teach them need now. Panelists included Saltwick, a senior fellow of Braver Angels; \u003ca href=\"https://www.tannerhiggin.com/\">Tanner Higgin\u003c/a>, a senior educational technology researcher at WestEd; and Kiera Beddes, a Utah-based digital teaching and learning specialist. Together, they painted a picture of how media literacy has evolved and how educators can make it a meaningful, integrated part of their teaching.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Media literacy is for everyone\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Media literacy has traditionally been associated with fact-checking and spotting misinformation. But as Higgin pointed out, it has often been framed around fear, particularly in response to the spread of new technology. Sometimes it can seem like setting up fences, he said, about how there is often an emphasis on making sure students can filter information. “We can be less reactive and more proactive in media literacy education,” added Higgin. Today media literacy also includes understanding how identity, community and algorithms shape our experience of information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While media literacy can seem politically charged, its core goals are widely shared. Words like “fake news” or “misinformation” may raise alarms, but “everyone wants kids to be knowledgeable, thoughtful, critical thinkers,” said Higgin. He cited data from \u003ca href=\"https://medialiteracynow.org/nationalsurvey2022/\">Media Literacy Now that said 84%\u003c/a> of surveyed adults believe media literacy should be a required part of school, while a study from the \u003ca href=\"https://newslit.org/news-literacy-in-america/\">News Literacy Project found that 94%\u003c/a> of teens agree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread support, many educators feel unsure how to approach the topic, especially in polarized environments. Beddes noted that most teachers don’t have a background in media studies, and discomfort around addressing controversial topics can lead to media literacy being sidelined. \u003ca href=\"https://digitalthriving.gse.harvard.edu/\">The Center for Digital Thriving\u003c/a> offers a possible solution with resources that help educators take a nonpartisan, student-led approach, including classroom-ready lesson plans and teacher training.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Build a Culture of Respectful Conversation\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Media literacy isn’t just about analyzing content; it also requires students to discuss what they’re seeing and feeling, especially when they disagree. “What we find is many people are hesitant to share a view, especially a view that might be in the minority in a given group,” said Saltwick. “But with a few simple techniques, you can really get a good dialogue going to make sure all these perspectives are heard.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Saltwick recommended using a clear structure for these conversations. He teaches the LAPP technique — Listen, Acknowledge, Pivot, Perspective — as a way to model respectful disagreement and build trust. “The tenor of the conversation changes dramatically,” he said. “So it’s not a battle of wills: ‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’ It’s ‘let’s understand.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beddes agreed that structure can help students navigate difficult discussions. She provides sentence stems to help them express curiosity and respond without escalating conflict. In her classroom, she also uses the \u003ca href=\"https://static1.squarespace.com/static/63335c5039fd1568331b8332/t/67b758dd1695b75d62b81307/1740069086806/DI+Card+v2.2.pdf\">Dignity Index\u003c/a>, a tool that evaluates the tone of speech, to help students ground their arguments in mutual respect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When media literacy conversations touch on identity, they can be particularly challenging. “False belief systems, conspiracy theories, can fuse to people’s identities now. And that is something that any number of skills can’t unwind,” said Higgin. “That’s why I think media literacy needs to not just be about skills—it needs to be about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54286/how-a-school-prioritizes-character-as-much-as-academics\">character\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">social-emotional learning\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Use Real Media, Not Hypotheticals\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>To be effective, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">media literacy education must engage with the actual media\u003c/a> students encounter in their daily lives. While there are tools that recreate media and try to approximate what a newsfeed would look like, “it can be very challenging to get something that feels authentic,” said Higgin. “We need to increasingly figure out how to manage the privacy and safety and maturity level of kids, but get them as much exposure to the actual media and thinking through the media in authentic environments as possible.” That includes analyzing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62233/how-to-help-your-kids-navigate-social-media-without-getting-lost\">social media platforms\u003c/a> students already use since algorithms often present a partial view of a topic as if it’s the whole truth and may reinforce students’ existing beliefs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To push back against those filters, Saltwick leads an activity called \u003cem>Walk a Mile in My News,\u003c/em> in which students exchange the media they consume, such as a favorite news outlet or influencer, and reflect on the differences in perspective. Exploring news sources outside of their usual echo chambers helps students realize what perspectives might be missing from their own sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beddes offered a similar activity to encourage critical thinking and highlight bias. She shares \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62710/like-it-or-not-kids-hear-the-news-heres-how-teachers-help-them-understand-it\">news articles\u003c/a> from outlets with different political leanings, removes the names of the publications and authors and asks students to guess the source. “It’s helping the students recognize who’s not part of this conversation,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, starting small can make the work more sustainable and more impactful. That could mean doing a short “media moment” where students reflect on how a recent viral post relates to what they’re learning in history or science. According to Beddes, resources like The \u003ca href=\"https://newslit.org/educators/sift/\">SIFT newsletter from the News Literacy Project\u003c/a> can support this kind of integration by providing timely examples and analysis of real media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teachers are often hesitant to take on media literacy because it can feel like another box to check, but Beddes says it doesn’t have to be that way. “Make media the lens through which you teach your subject matter so that it is not just another thing,” she advised.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5161212251\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Welcome to Mind Shift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. This year, I went to the South by Southwest EDU conference in Austin, Texas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I moderated a panel all about media literacy and I got to talk to three amazing people who are really thinking about this work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Hey everybody, I’m Tanner Higgin. I’m a senior educational technology researcher at WestEd which is a large and old education research organization focused on all ages and stages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>Hi everyone, my name is Kiera Beddes. I’m a digital teaching and learning specialist in Utah. Been in education for about 15 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> And my name is Steve Saltwick and I volunteer pretty much full time for an organization called Braver Angels, which is a national nonprofit totally focused on bridging the political divide in all demographic areas because we feel that is essential in strengthening our democratic republic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Together, they brought a lot of insight and heart to that conversation. And today we’re sharing an excerpt of that panel. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I wanted to start with a question that you all could answer about a moment that made you realize how important media literacy is today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> Right after the mass shooting at the Marjory Stoner Douglas, where several of the students became quite active and well-known on social media. I remember seeing a post on my social feeds of those students ripping up a copy of the Constitution. And I’m a conservative. I mean, the Constitution’s a pretty serious document for me. So with righteous indignation, I posted this thing. And then came to find out from several of my friends who posted saying that’s a fake video and it just absolutely stunned me. So I withdrew, you know, I apologized it withdrew the post You know, and it made me really think my goodness How powerful a video image was of something like that and I fell for it immediately. I realized I needed to be a lot more mature, if you will, I guess in the way I consumed media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I have kind of a similar experience. I was at my nail tech and I was a captive audience because, you know, when you’re there for a couple of hours getting your nails done. And she’d be telling me, “Oh, I saw this thing on TikTok and isn’t that the craziest thing you’ve ever heard?” And I’d be like, “I don’t think that’s real.” And so one-handedly I’d be like hurriedly like googling something on my phone So I could be like this article says that’s not true or or these things also say kind of the opposite and so it was this really kind of aha moment that I had where She was seeing things and her algorithm was telling her things that were not crossing my dashboard And I just realized that like oh if she is is thinking these things and having these conversations in her home, what does that look like in my classroom? What are my kids seeing and what’s impacting them? And I realized the skills of lateral reading, of fact checking, but even going beyond that to say why is it so easy to kind of fall for these things? And so that was my aha moment. I was like, this is important and we need to do more about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it may come at this from a different angle, which is, my academic background is more in the media studies world. And one thing I love about media literacy is that when done well, it sort of unlocks a whole new layer of meaning in the world. The world comes alive once you start to understand audiovisual media and how to interpret it and unpack it. And the different systems for understanding that by looking at the medium itself, right, as part of the architecture of the meaning of something. I had some great intro to film professors who sort of gave me this new media studies and media literacy lens, tapped into the, you know, the whole notion of film language, and it felt like I’d been let into this sort of secret knowledge that exists and can really make meaning everywhere you look once you tap into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you. And I do want to start with asking you a question, Tanner, because you actually brought to my attention when we were first discussing this session that media literacy has transformed throughout time because our world is also changing. Like the technology that we have, even in the past like two years, has grown by leaps and bounds. So can you kind of frame for us the way that media literacy has evolved over time? Maybe even what historical trends have shaped the way that we teach it today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> What I love about media literacy is that it kind of reflects culture at that time, but then shapes it as well. Media literacy education, interestingly, is a whole other thing. And it really grows out of policy. And policy, as I think everyone knows, especially in education, often, needs to get pushed. And it often gets pushed from a standpoint of fear, I would argue, especially media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> You know, these new technologies pop up and with it you see a new spark and interest in media literacy but it’s often from a feeling of “We need to do something for the children because this new technology is scary and is transforming everything we see.” You know, television to internet, web publishing, eroding the whole idea of authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Whereas traditional literacy, ELA kind of instruction is all about like building bridges, opening up worlds for kids to like see and read the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Media literacy education when it gets operationalized through policy is like setting up fences. Like let’s protect and filter information and let’s make sure kids have that capability—Very, very important, but it cuts off all of the amazing extraordinary aspects of media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> So that’s kinda been my passion. And the way I sort of think through media history, media literacy history is this battle between what happens in the media studies world and what happens in the Media Literacy Education world. And how maybe we can be less reactive and more proactive in media literacy education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to bring it to Kiera, who I’m so happy to have on this panel, because I feel like when we get up in theories and ideas, you being at school really brings us back down to the rubber meets the road, ‘what does this look like in classrooms?’ So can you maybe talk about some of the challenges that you’re seeing with media literacy in your position in schools?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> The biggest thing that teachers are always gonna say is that they need time. And then also, they say I can’t add one more thing onto my plate. And so the problem with that though is that when we see media literacy as some sort of other, then it gets left by the wayside because they’re gonna focus on their content.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>Whereas like I try to emphasize with my teachers, media literacy isn’t another thing, it becomes the lens through which you can teach your content. Media literacy, when it’s done well, you’re not just looking at the film or the message or the content of whatever you’re looking at, whatever media that you’re interacting with, but you’re also looking at the form and the choices that were made in production that impact how you, the viewer, you, the consumer, interacts with that media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you, and I’m curious, Steve, if you have anything to add to that, because I know that Braver Angels is in the business of creating containers for better conversations, which I think is a big part of media literacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>What we’re focused on is the idea that everyone has a perspective and a point of view, including the media you consume. We have one program called Walk a Mile in My News. So you take two people who have very different viewpoints, and they actually switch the kinds of media they consume. And then they talk about that. And they realize, well, wait a minute, I’m missing things, because I’m not reading what the other person is reading, and much of this is not that one is right or one is wrong, it’s just to appreciate the fact that others have perspectives that are quite different from you, and if you have ground rules that set the stage for a respectful dialog about that, you can really get to a further appreciation of what the topic is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>I’ve heard of other teachers doing activities where they have their students swap phones and go through each other’s feeds to see what are you seeing? How is it different from what I’m seeing? Kiera, have you seen any activities that have actually been successful in having students realize that what I see is not what everybody sees?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I’ve heard teachers where they will print out articles and they remove all identifying features of the article so that they’re just looking at the language that is used in the article. And based on the word choice, you can kind of see, oh, based on how they’re talking about this topic, you can guess, is it left leaning, is right leaning? And it kind of calls to mind the ultimate promise of media literacy, which is like looking at the form, right? What is the structure and how is it used and what choices are being used. But there’s also perspectives that are noticeably absent and it’s helping the students recognize who’s not part of this conversation. Just being aware of like, oh, there is more to this and how can I go out and find that missing perspective and bring it in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And I want to bring you into this too, Tanner. Are there tech tools or ed tech tools that can kind of foster this idea that, like I might be seeing like a certain thing, but I am aware that there is a bigger story or a bigger narrative out there beyond what I see on my own feeds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Since I would say 2016, there’s been a growing sector within ed tech specifically focused on various approaches to what one might call fake news. I’m of two minds about these tools because I think one of the tricky things with media literacy in particular is if the medium is the message. Then you need to engage with the medium to understand it. Tools that recreate media and try and like, especially for younger kids, approximate what a newsfeed would look like. I think it can be very challenging to get something that feels authentic to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>My recommendation is when possible to get kids engaging with the actual media itself. Otherwise, it’s like you’re teaching film studies by having students reading film synopses or something instead of looking at the actual film.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>I think we need to increasingly figure out how to manage privacy and safety and maturity level of kids, but get them as much exposure to the actual media and thinking through the media in authentic environments as possible, because that’s what’s actually gonna serve them well when they are. You know, maybe sneaking some usage of things that we otherwise might not approve of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When you were speaking, my brain snagged on, you mentioned fake news and I think even the words misinformation and disinformation can be kind of like politically coded and can feel a little bit divisive. Media literacy, I think we talked about this too, can be a non-partisan issue. What are some shared concerns that parents and educators across ideological lines can actually come together on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I think particularly at this moment in time, it can feel like in education, there’s no common ground. But media literacy is one of, it has universal support. I think it’s somewhere around, media literacy now did a survey, like 84% of adults think it should be required in classrooms. And when you ask teens, 94% think it should be require in classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>Everyone wants kids to be knowledgeable, thoughtful, critical thinkers. I mean, everyone wants that. It’s at the heart of education, right? Media literacy is at the core of what we want education to do, which is to empower people to be self-determined, to think for themselves, and to explore and engage with the world thoughtfully. There is no debate around whether that’s important or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I would add to that, for the average teacher, they don’t have the background of media studies to then feel comfortable talking about it in their classes. And so it gets put onto the wayside. And so I think it’s interesting that we see this universal need for it. But then the question is, how do we empower teachers to do it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> What we find in the classroom, both in secondary schools and university, and really adults as well, is that with a few simple techniques, you can really get a good dialog going to make sure all these perspectives are heard and things like that. I mean, so a couple of just simple ground rules, right, of respectful conversation, especially body language, so no rolling of your eyes, sighing and things that, and just state them is a big deal. And then what we use is a very simple technique called LAPP for listen, acknowledge, pivot and perspective. And really the main thing about all of that is that the speaker needs to feel that they are understood. So when you listen, you’re not listening to frame a reply, you’re listening to understand. In Texas we call it, you listen to understand not reload. You know, and so, and that’s hard work. That’s hard, right? And then the pivot is to actually ask permission before you share your perspective. So someone would say, I hear you. This is what, you know, there’s an element I agree with. At the very least, you can say, it’s clearly an emotional topic for you. And then along, something along the lines of, you know I’ve been doing some reading on this, or I’ve seen some things on this. Would you mind if I share my perspective? And then if the other person says, sure, well then you now have permission to share a differing perspective. And that is handled differently than if the first reply you have is let me tell you my perspective, let me you what the truth is, right? That’s gonna be resisted. We find that as an amazingly powerful technique to use in these discussions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>It sounds like that process slows down the conversation in a way where it’s not as reactive. And that seems like a really important component of a conversation not kind of devolving into, I don’t know, finger pointing or talking past each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>What we find is many people are hesitant to share a view, especially a view that might be in the minority in a given group, right? And if they feel heard, if someone says what you’re saying is blah, right, whether you agree with blah or not, right. But I now feel heard. Then there’s all sorts of trust that starts being built. There’s all sorts of personalization that starts being built. And the tenor of the conversation changes dramatically. So it’s not a battle of wills. “I’m right, you’re wrong.” It’s “Let’s understand each other” because both of us probably missed something in understanding this complicated thing, whatever it is, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And I wonder, this is maybe something that Steve, you, and maybe Kiera, you as well, can weigh in on. I do feel like when we get into things that are related to maybe identity, social identity, things that are seen as values or like close to personhood, those can get really, really emotional very fast and they’re kind of unwieldy. It can be hard, I would think as an educator, to facilitate those conversations, and I know it’s really hard to be in those conversations. Do you have any strategies for, it sounds like LAPP could work for something like that. Are there any other things you’ve found that work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> One of my favorites, and it sounds so simple, but having sentence stems available for students… I’ve seen elementary school teachers through middle and high school, when you’re going to have a conversation, and if it’s going to be about a heated topic, you have kind of these sentence starters of like, okay, I see where you’re coming from, or this is my perspective, or. And there’s like a whole list of them. But I think it helps give students a framework for having a conversation, right? And I loved what you said about slowing the conversation down because a lot of what we see online is people share immediately out of strong emotion, right, either anger or fear or whatever the case may be. And so slowing down the reaction and really getting at “why do I react this way? Why am I feeling this way?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick:\u003c/strong> One thing we’ve found with Braver Angels is that the importance of structure, right? So we will have some simple ground rules and there’s also a clear structure to the conversation. You know, here’s what we’re doing, here is how we’re going to do it, you know, here’s some very simple ground roles but it’s not just a free for all of everybody jumping in, talking over one another, all of that. By having ground rules and a structure to the conversation, you create a much open space for people to share their ideas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Tanner, was there anything you wanted to add to that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> I’m really struck by this notion of identity and values and how it comes into play in the interpretation of media and how we receive it and understand it and what we cling to. And one thing I’ve really been doing a lot of thinking about is like, I picture this as a relatively modern phenomenon, I think spurred by social media and how as a medium, conditions culture in a way, where false beliefs, false belief systems, conspiracy theories, can fuse to people’s identities now. And that is something that any number of skills can’t unwind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>You can teach people in that position all of the media literacy skills in the world and Dana Boyd had a great talk on this, titled, “Did Media Literacy Backfire?” because she was observing how in some of these communities, critical thinking skills get applied. They just go the wrong way. But I believe, I hypothesize, that to untether false belief from identity takes humility. And that is in very short supply in the world of social media. We’re almost conditioned against it. And people with false beliefs that are tethered to their identity, it becomes like their entire world can come crumbling down if they are to take a different view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>And that’s why I think media literacy needs to not just be about skills, it needs to be about character. And social-emotional learning and that I haven’t seen many approaches that really take that seriously. I think there are some but I think a lot more work to be done and there’s a lot of research to be done in maybe proving me correct or half correct or completely false.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>That does make me think of, Kiera, you posed a question when you were answering a question earlier, which was teachers need to be kind of empowered to kind of take on media literacy. And from what Tanner said, it is kind of a tall order. What do you think teachers need to get that work started?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>My answer to this is always to start small, because I don’t want to overwhelm teachers, but I do want to start, right? Find a direction and head in that direction. The resources, The SIFT from the news literacy project, so it’s a newsletter they put out each week. In it, they have rumor guard where they take a viral piece of media and they break down why it went viral and what was true and what is false and kind of helping reinforce those skills. That we want our students to gain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>And I think something as simple as a media moment, right? Where a teacher could be a classroom starter, it could be an exit ticket, it could anything that you just have two minutes, three minutes, pop up a piece of media, and this can be anything, right, because text is very broadly based. But then you have your students practice those skills, you’re reinforcing those skills. And as a teacher, you don’t have to have a degree in media analyzes, but you’re helping them break down not only what are they seeing, like what is the content, but you also ask them questions about how it was created and what is meaning behind how it is created.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> MindShift is all about solutions. I think it’s easy to get kind of mired in the work that needs to be done. But I’m wondering, for all three of you, if you can share an example of someone who’s doing this work well, whether it’s an organization or an experience that you’ve had where it’s gone really positively. You got one, Steve?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Steve Saltwick: \u003c/strong>Well, I would say Braver Angels, right? I mean, what a layup, okay, right, but I certainly know one thing that strikes me about Braver Angels. It started in 2016 where a group of Trump voters and a group Hillary voters got very worried about the state of the country and it was all adults, right-typically retired adults and all of that. And then subsequently has branched out to college campuses, high schools, some middle schools. And we do workshops, and I’ve moderated many of those workshops. I’ve probably seen about 100 workshops, and probably 20%, 30% of them have been in the high school and college area. What always strikes me is really unbelievable is the thirst that I see in students to have real conversations about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I have two that came to mind. One is very similar to the work that Braver Angels is doing, so the Dignity Index, they’ve developed this ranking scale of public speech and whether or not it gives dignity to the people that they’re talking about, which is a fascinating way of looking at how we talk about other people, especially people we disagree with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>You can look at articles, you can look at speech, you can also look at conversations between students, right? What kind of dignity are you offering the other person and how are you validating their perspective? So that’s one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes: \u003c/strong>The second one and I’m not just saying this but I honestly believe this: KQED teach has a whole bunch of mini courses for educators about this very topic. One is how to teach students how to look at the form and how to analyze media and how did look at bias and And how to like share their perspectives, which is great. That’s kind of the back end, the theory behind media literacy. But then they also offer very practical, like, this is how to do video projects in your class. This is how do photo projects in our class. Like you learn the theory and then you apply it and I love it. So those are my two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> We did not pay Kiera to say that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kiera Beddes:\u003c/strong> I honestly love it so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin:\u003c/strong> I’ll point to the Center for Digital Thriving out of Harvard, I think, is doing some really path-breaking work around digital well-being specifically, which I think is an increasingly important part of media literacy, is getting students to reflect on the presence of smartphones in their lives and to think critically about it and decide for themselves what purpose it should serve and if it’s serving those purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>And to that end, that research group at the Center for Digital Thriving developed an activity that’s rooted in Harvard’s long-term Project Zero Thinking Routines framework, like real simple pedagogical moves anyone can apply to just about any learning scenario. And they’ve developed one of these called The Value Sort, where you get students to choose from a big board of values which ones kind of represent them, like which ones they hold really dear. And then you can use that as a sort of critical lens to apply to just about anything in the media world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tanner Higgin: \u003c/strong>So their example is using that value sort to get students to think about their usage of smartphones, track like what they’re doing on their smartphones, and then go, hey, remember those values that you hold dear? Like how are those being represented in that activity or not, right? And I think that’s a way of. Of providing students with a really interesting lens to make sure that like what they’re consuming and doing is in standing with what they truly believe and their image of themselves. And I think that’s like, to me that’s a picture of the future of media literacy is this merging of traditional critical thinking skills with values and character-based education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Can we give a round of applause to our panelists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That was Tanner Higgin, Kiera Bettes, and Steve Saltwick at the SXSW EDU Conference in Austin, Texas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Artist \u003ca href=\"https://www.minniephan.com/\">Minnie Phan\u003c/a> has been honing her craft for many years, but her journey to becoming an artist meant better understanding herself, her heritage and her family. On the MindShift Podcast, she discussed how the Vietnamese diaspora inspired her to pursue art. She also shares what motivated her to create the book “\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735246/simone-by-viet-thanh-nguyen-illustrated-by-minnie-phan/\">Simone\u003c/a>” with Pulitzer-prize winning author \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735246/simone-by-viet-thanh-nguyen-illustrated-by-minnie-phan/\">Viet Thanh Nguyen\u003c/a>. The book follows a young child who has to evacuate her home because of a wildfire. In the process, she learns about how her mother had to evacuate her home when she lived in Vietnam because of a flood. The book also shares how kids can process displacement and see who is helping them during tough times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3930425690\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Phan also shared some of her favorite books by Vietnamese American authors:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.muonthivan.com/p/wishes.html\">Wishes\u003c/a>,” by Muon Thi Van and Victo Ngai\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29936927-the-best-we-could-do\">The Best We Could Do\u003c/a>,” by Thi Bui\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/602718/the-magic-fish-by-trung-le-nguyen/\">The Magic Fish\u003c/a>,” by Trung Le Nguyen\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250809728/familystyle/\">“Family Style: Memories of an American from Vietnam\u003c/a>,” by Thien Pham\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://threeroomspress.com/product/my-vietnam-your-vietnam-by-christina-vo-and-nghia-m-vo/\">My Vietnam, Your Vietnam\u003c/a>,” by Christina Vo and Nghia M. Vo\u003cbr>\n[aside postID=mindshift_50874 hero=’https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/23/2018/03/iStock-696810722-1180×787.jpg’]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung : \u003c/strong>Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years since the fall of Saigon, the end of the Vietnam War. And while the Vietnamese-American community here has flourished and grown, their representation in children’s books is catching up with the population. In today’s episode, we’ll hear from children’s book illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the book, Simone. The story of Simone is set in California and brings to life some of the decisions a young girl is forced to make when evacuating her home because of a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the book, but the text of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning author Viet Thanh Nguyen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Minnie Phan, welcome to Mind Shift. Tell us about your book, Simone, and what inspired you to tell this story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Hi, it’s so great to be here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone actually came from 2020 during a very intense time for I think everyone across the globe where especially especially in the Bay Area where we had not just the pandemic but the wildfires as well. So as I’m processing and and going through the motions I was leaning into myself as an adult I was leading into what I’ve always which was drawing and painting and writing. And I thought, what are kids doing? And I had a feeling kids were doing the exact same thing. They were drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a short book about wildfires and this experience of this little girl who is trying to understand the world through her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and she said, I love the art, but the story is somewhere, it’s not quite there yet. Do you wanna work with a writer? in, you know, I guess I’ve got guts because I suddenly said, I know a writer and I suggested, I suggested Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years ago and he’s one of my literary heroes and I was there at the launch of The Sympathizer before it won the Pulitzer and I followed his career for almost a decade over and I just always knew that one day I wanted to work with him. So when this opportunity came up, I said, try to ask Viet. And I remember before any editors or publishers or any contracts, anything happened, Viet got the email from his agent about my project and Viet said, call me. So I call him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this word less storyboard. And, I swear in that moment, I thought, I bombed, I blew it, he’s never gonna work with me. And then 20 minutes later, I got an email and he said, Okay, let’s go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Congrats on landing such a big fish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>My family’s from a fishing village, so I’ve got it in my bones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Awesome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>So, I often pitch the book as a young girl facing intergenerational… experiences with climate change. But Viet often says, I think it’s more about a young girl and the power of art and how art is used to connect with herself and other people. Because the book is more than just about this terrifying fire that threatens her home. It’s about how she’s able to connect with other people who are going through similar experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, tell me your story. Let’s draw your house. What does it look like? Do you want to go home? What does your home look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>I do love that contrast maybe between the kids’ experience versus the adults because there is one page where adults are using big words that kids may have seen. But this is really about processing events that happen in kids’ lives that may be out of their control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, for sure. I mean, I’m thinking about, can I go into my favorite children’s book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Okay. I’m think about when I was a kid, I actually did not read very much. My parents are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, specifically central Vietnam. And I remember I didn’t really have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, but there was one book that I remember so clearly. I’m gonna read the title. Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day. And I remember, so clearly, picking up this book and saying, this is how I feel on a really bad day. This is how feel. And it didn’t matter, really, what happened that day, but it was that I could connect and identify what was going on. And that was because of a picture book. You know, my parents and I… We didn’t have a very strong shared language. I moved a lot as a kid in the Bay Area. I was born in Stockton, but went to five elementary schools all over the Bay Area. So I didn’t have a lot of stable connections, but I always had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> To be honest, this is inspiring to me because I think there are a lot of educators who do teach students who have struggles communicating with their parents, who maybe are the translator for their family, translating very important documents, who move from place to place, don’t ever really feel settled. So this is really great to hear your reflection on your personal experience and help other kids access that as well through this book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. Representation is vital to my work, of course, but really, I think the core of why I do what I do is to connect with my inner child, which I think all of us have within. And I think, the closer you are to your inner child the better you are able to make media and art for children, because you really understand the experience. Being a kid is both joyful and beautiful and exciting and fun, of cause, but I think adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. feelings that children have, the deep ability that children are capable of. Not many people go through growing up in a refugee immigrant family. It’s a lonely experience, and it’s scary. But I did it, and so many millions of other have. And I think that’s also why we need art in the Vietnamese diaspora, because it captures this experience that is truly unique and special. And I could go into my journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung \u003c/strong>: Yeah, let’s hear it. I know you just got back from a big trip to Japan and Korea, is that right? And a few years ago you had also gone to Vietnam. Can you talk about your travels?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Okay, yeah, this is big, we’re gonna get into it. So, I mentioned I’ve moved a lot as a kid, five elementary schools. I actually ended up going to high school in Pleasanton and I struggled a lot in high school. I almost didn’t graduate, I had a terrible GPA and I was just in the wrong crowd. But my art teacher really saw something in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Amateur Valley High, He’s phenomenal. changed my life. He really showed me what art could do and I found passion and meaning and direction and so I applied to art school my senior year and I got a full-ride scholarship to California College of the Arts. And I remember it broke my parents heart. They were so upset they couldn’t believe it even if it was a full- ride scholarship to a private art school. They felt that I was choosing hunger in a way where They did not choose hunger. It was forced upon them. My parents grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province called Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese people listening. I know my Vietnamese is not good, but that’s okay. But they’re from a small fishing village. And my mother had to drop out of school when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, because they were surviving a famine, war. They’ve lost loved ones. Hunger was not an option. It was a reality. And so when I chose art school, all they could see was she’s choosing a difficult life. But they did not understand at that moment that what I was choosing was to tell our stories, was to heal so many of the intergenerational wounds or at least attempt to heal through a chorus of artists’ voices, the wounds that the Vietnamese diaspora across the globe has. And it has been a beautiful journey. I think my life wouldn’t be what it is if I didn’t go to art school. When I was a junior at CCA, I won a scholarship that was no strings attached money. I could do anything, pay tuition, get art supplies. And I decided to go to Vietnam for the first time by myself. Three weeks, I had no idea what I was doing. I’d never been on a plane alone before and I’d ever been to a rural place, a developing country, I’ve never met so many family members. But I had to, I have to because my parents really just wanted to lift us up economically in a safe place where we didn’t have to worry about. disease, war, et cetera. But I wanted to know, who am I? Who are we? How do we get here? Why are we here? And there’s so many things that we did not learn in school, in high school, et cetera. So I had to really, I think I wanted to be brave and do hard things. And that experience changed my life. I was 21 and I met so many kind relatives. People were so sweet and I saw wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d never experienced before. But I also saw love and joy and affection in a way that only a village, a true village could provide. And also, The experience humanized my parents because my parents were so upset about my choice to go to art school. But when I went to Vietnam, I was staying at the home of my parents, my mother’s childhood home, and I suddenly could see, I could suddenly see her little kid feet running through the sand. And I remember this elder came to visit the house and she had lost her sight and she actually had raised my mother when my grandmother had died. And this woman, she lifts her hands and she touches my face and she goes, I know who this is. This is Tay’s daughter. I know her. And so then I suddenly had this opportunity to ask, what was my mother like when she was a girl? What was she like when was little? There were suddenly so many avenues and I needed that healing. And I think I could not make it through or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world through an artist’s lens. I was there to bear witness to the lives of the people around me and also my own life. It really changed me going back to Vietnam. I came back and I think I held a lot more forgiveness and understanding and love for my parents and my family best they could do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I know teenage years are hard for everybody, but when you’re able to look at the longer arc of a relationship, those moments of recovery, right, of healing can be so beneficial in the longer term. So I’m glad you had that experience. And the art that you make is also how people can recall and process their experiences. So you’re imprinting your message on to. kids and adults as well when they go through the hardship and think about how to recover from that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan:\u003c/strong> Hmm. Yeah, it’s interesting. Actually, I think the going so thinking about the picture book space as specifically about diversity and representation. I Think the most successful books are the ones that capture The child experience or the experience of an individual in that moment I’ve noticed a few directions in the picturebook Community that’s about diversity or diverse picture books one is the writer healing a trauma, the really specific things that they wish they had seen when they were a kid. And they want this book to exist because it’s important. And it’s like, if this book exists now, my younger child self can have it. And I think there are also other books where it’s specifically about the experience of the kid. I also illustrated a book called The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that book was about another metaphor for intergenerational connection about a young girl who finds her mother’s al-yaj and dances in it and then tears it, and she feels so bad. But an essential part of that book is forgiveness. I think that’s part of the healing that I think kids want to hear, like it’s OK to make mistakes. It’s OK. And so I think those are the stories that I really, really connect with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Yeah, and breaking something of your parents or tearing something that is always terrifying as a kid. Definitely. Okay, so what books can you recommend that feature Vietnamese American characters?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan:\u003c/strong> Oh, there’s so many. I really love the book Wishes. I believe that one’s by Monty. And I also I love, I loved The Best We Could Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I actually met Tee when she was still working on it and I was there at the launch of her book and it’s just been so beautiful seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And also I feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance right now. I see creative power, cultural power, building in the Vietnamese community. And I love it, I love. And Viet talks about this often, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to eventually go beyond the pain and trauma of war, which of course is vital and important and must be honored. But for us, to move forward as individuals and as a community, we have to see beyond the heartache, the pain and see the potential, the joy, the future. And so much of our future is in our young people who get to have so many opportunities that we and our parents didn’t get to have, but they get right this second. Any other books you want to recommend? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about coming out and being queer. There’s Family Style about food. Oh, there’s a great, really interesting book called My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s told, this is actually maybe more of an adult book, but it’s her perspective of living in Vietnam and her father’s experience of living in Vietnam. So it’s both of their experiences living abroad and the book eventually converges in the center where they meet. It’s very interesting. It’s like a dual memoir. Oh, you know what? I wanna give a big shout out. I wanna to give a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So when I graduated art school, I was brand new to the field. I had no examples of Vietnamese people in the arts. And I was browsing spectator books in Oakland one day and I picked up this book and I just loved the art. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was just so good. I believe it was Vampirina Ballerina. but I picked it up and I suddenly saw the name and it was a Vietnamese name, the last name Pham. And it was such a beautiful, inspiring moment where I remember saying, if she can do it, I can do. And actually I had this beautiful full circle moment where I was on stage with her last year at the Viet Book Fest, presented by Vala. And I got to tell her the story and it was just beautiful that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and writer making it happen. If my 18 year old self could see her and just know that even though my community has no idea what I’m pursuing, it is possible. I can be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it really does not give up telling their story, making art, being creative. And if you see your little, if you your little making art and being creative, let that flourish. It’s gonna show up in so many different ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Those are great recommendations. I hope that more kids and parents read those books. I hope they see themselves in the stories and also embody what gives them joy. And at every age, art is that, and it can unlock so many other experiences, much like what you have learned throughout your career. So thank you, Minnie Phan, for being here with us on Mind Shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Minnie Phan is a children’s book illustrator who recently published Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and she’s a writer and artist based in Oakland. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Artist \u003ca href=\"https://www.minniephan.com/\">Minnie Phan\u003c/a> has been honing her craft for many years, but her journey to becoming an artist meant better understanding herself, her heritage and her family. On the MindShift Podcast, she discussed how the Vietnamese diaspora inspired her to pursue art. She also shares what motivated her to create the book “\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735246/simone-by-viet-thanh-nguyen-illustrated-by-minnie-phan/\">Simone\u003c/a>” with Pulitzer-prize winning author \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735246/simone-by-viet-thanh-nguyen-illustrated-by-minnie-phan/\">Viet Thanh Nguyen\u003c/a>. The book follows a young child who has to evacuate her home because of a wildfire. In the process, she learns about how her mother had to evacuate her home when she lived in Vietnam because of a flood. The book also shares how kids can process displacement and see who is helping them during tough times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3930425690\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Phan also shared some of her favorite books by Vietnamese American authors:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.muonthivan.com/p/wishes.html\">Wishes\u003c/a>,” by Muon Thi Van and Victo Ngai\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29936927-the-best-we-could-do\">The Best We Could Do\u003c/a>,” by Thi Bui\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/602718/the-magic-fish-by-trung-le-nguyen/\">The Magic Fish\u003c/a>,” by Trung Le Nguyen\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250809728/familystyle/\">“Family Style: Memories of an American from Vietnam\u003c/a>,” by Thien Pham\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://threeroomspress.com/product/my-vietnam-your-vietnam-by-christina-vo-and-nghia-m-vo/\">My Vietnam, Your Vietnam\u003c/a>,” by Christina Vo and Nghia M. Vo\u003cbr>\n\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung : \u003c/strong>Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years since the fall of Saigon, the end of the Vietnam War. And while the Vietnamese-American community here has flourished and grown, their representation in children’s books is catching up with the population. In today’s episode, we’ll hear from children’s book illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the book, Simone. The story of Simone is set in California and brings to life some of the decisions a young girl is forced to make when evacuating her home because of a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the book, but the text of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning author Viet Thanh Nguyen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Minnie Phan, welcome to Mind Shift. Tell us about your book, Simone, and what inspired you to tell this story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Hi, it’s so great to be here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone actually came from 2020 during a very intense time for I think everyone across the globe where especially especially in the Bay Area where we had not just the pandemic but the wildfires as well. So as I’m processing and and going through the motions I was leaning into myself as an adult I was leading into what I’ve always which was drawing and painting and writing. And I thought, what are kids doing? And I had a feeling kids were doing the exact same thing. They were drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a short book about wildfires and this experience of this little girl who is trying to understand the world through her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and she said, I love the art, but the story is somewhere, it’s not quite there yet. Do you wanna work with a writer? in, you know, I guess I’ve got guts because I suddenly said, I know a writer and I suggested, I suggested Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years ago and he’s one of my literary heroes and I was there at the launch of The Sympathizer before it won the Pulitzer and I followed his career for almost a decade over and I just always knew that one day I wanted to work with him. So when this opportunity came up, I said, try to ask Viet. And I remember before any editors or publishers or any contracts, anything happened, Viet got the email from his agent about my project and Viet said, call me. So I call him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this word less storyboard. And, I swear in that moment, I thought, I bombed, I blew it, he’s never gonna work with me. And then 20 minutes later, I got an email and he said, Okay, let’s go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Congrats on landing such a big fish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>My family’s from a fishing village, so I’ve got it in my bones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Awesome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>So, I often pitch the book as a young girl facing intergenerational… experiences with climate change. But Viet often says, I think it’s more about a young girl and the power of art and how art is used to connect with herself and other people. Because the book is more than just about this terrifying fire that threatens her home. It’s about how she’s able to connect with other people who are going through similar experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, tell me your story. Let’s draw your house. What does it look like? Do you want to go home? What does your home look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>I do love that contrast maybe between the kids’ experience versus the adults because there is one page where adults are using big words that kids may have seen. But this is really about processing events that happen in kids’ lives that may be out of their control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, for sure. I mean, I’m thinking about, can I go into my favorite children’s book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Okay. I’m think about when I was a kid, I actually did not read very much. My parents are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, specifically central Vietnam. And I remember I didn’t really have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, but there was one book that I remember so clearly. I’m gonna read the title. Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day. And I remember, so clearly, picking up this book and saying, this is how I feel on a really bad day. This is how feel. And it didn’t matter, really, what happened that day, but it was that I could connect and identify what was going on. And that was because of a picture book. You know, my parents and I… We didn’t have a very strong shared language. I moved a lot as a kid in the Bay Area. I was born in Stockton, but went to five elementary schools all over the Bay Area. So I didn’t have a lot of stable connections, but I always had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> To be honest, this is inspiring to me because I think there are a lot of educators who do teach students who have struggles communicating with their parents, who maybe are the translator for their family, translating very important documents, who move from place to place, don’t ever really feel settled. So this is really great to hear your reflection on your personal experience and help other kids access that as well through this book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. Representation is vital to my work, of course, but really, I think the core of why I do what I do is to connect with my inner child, which I think all of us have within. And I think, the closer you are to your inner child the better you are able to make media and art for children, because you really understand the experience. Being a kid is both joyful and beautiful and exciting and fun, of cause, but I think adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. feelings that children have, the deep ability that children are capable of. Not many people go through growing up in a refugee immigrant family. It’s a lonely experience, and it’s scary. But I did it, and so many millions of other have. And I think that’s also why we need art in the Vietnamese diaspora, because it captures this experience that is truly unique and special. And I could go into my journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung \u003c/strong>: Yeah, let’s hear it. I know you just got back from a big trip to Japan and Korea, is that right? And a few years ago you had also gone to Vietnam. Can you talk about your travels?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Okay, yeah, this is big, we’re gonna get into it. So, I mentioned I’ve moved a lot as a kid, five elementary schools. I actually ended up going to high school in Pleasanton and I struggled a lot in high school. I almost didn’t graduate, I had a terrible GPA and I was just in the wrong crowd. But my art teacher really saw something in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Amateur Valley High, He’s phenomenal. changed my life. He really showed me what art could do and I found passion and meaning and direction and so I applied to art school my senior year and I got a full-ride scholarship to California College of the Arts. And I remember it broke my parents heart. They were so upset they couldn’t believe it even if it was a full- ride scholarship to a private art school. They felt that I was choosing hunger in a way where They did not choose hunger. It was forced upon them. My parents grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province called Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese people listening. I know my Vietnamese is not good, but that’s okay. But they’re from a small fishing village. And my mother had to drop out of school when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, because they were surviving a famine, war. They’ve lost loved ones. Hunger was not an option. It was a reality. And so when I chose art school, all they could see was she’s choosing a difficult life. But they did not understand at that moment that what I was choosing was to tell our stories, was to heal so many of the intergenerational wounds or at least attempt to heal through a chorus of artists’ voices, the wounds that the Vietnamese diaspora across the globe has. And it has been a beautiful journey. I think my life wouldn’t be what it is if I didn’t go to art school. When I was a junior at CCA, I won a scholarship that was no strings attached money. I could do anything, pay tuition, get art supplies. And I decided to go to Vietnam for the first time by myself. Three weeks, I had no idea what I was doing. I’d never been on a plane alone before and I’d ever been to a rural place, a developing country, I’ve never met so many family members. But I had to, I have to because my parents really just wanted to lift us up economically in a safe place where we didn’t have to worry about. disease, war, et cetera. But I wanted to know, who am I? Who are we? How do we get here? Why are we here? And there’s so many things that we did not learn in school, in high school, et cetera. So I had to really, I think I wanted to be brave and do hard things. And that experience changed my life. I was 21 and I met so many kind relatives. People were so sweet and I saw wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d never experienced before. But I also saw love and joy and affection in a way that only a village, a true village could provide. And also, The experience humanized my parents because my parents were so upset about my choice to go to art school. But when I went to Vietnam, I was staying at the home of my parents, my mother’s childhood home, and I suddenly could see, I could suddenly see her little kid feet running through the sand. And I remember this elder came to visit the house and she had lost her sight and she actually had raised my mother when my grandmother had died. And this woman, she lifts her hands and she touches my face and she goes, I know who this is. This is Tay’s daughter. I know her. And so then I suddenly had this opportunity to ask, what was my mother like when she was a girl? What was she like when was little? There were suddenly so many avenues and I needed that healing. And I think I could not make it through or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world through an artist’s lens. I was there to bear witness to the lives of the people around me and also my own life. It really changed me going back to Vietnam. I came back and I think I held a lot more forgiveness and understanding and love for my parents and my family best they could do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I know teenage years are hard for everybody, but when you’re able to look at the longer arc of a relationship, those moments of recovery, right, of healing can be so beneficial in the longer term. So I’m glad you had that experience. And the art that you make is also how people can recall and process their experiences. So you’re imprinting your message on to. kids and adults as well when they go through the hardship and think about how to recover from that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan:\u003c/strong> Hmm. Yeah, it’s interesting. Actually, I think the going so thinking about the picture book space as specifically about diversity and representation. I Think the most successful books are the ones that capture The child experience or the experience of an individual in that moment I’ve noticed a few directions in the picturebook Community that’s about diversity or diverse picture books one is the writer healing a trauma, the really specific things that they wish they had seen when they were a kid. And they want this book to exist because it’s important. And it’s like, if this book exists now, my younger child self can have it. And I think there are also other books where it’s specifically about the experience of the kid. I also illustrated a book called The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that book was about another metaphor for intergenerational connection about a young girl who finds her mother’s al-yaj and dances in it and then tears it, and she feels so bad. But an essential part of that book is forgiveness. I think that’s part of the healing that I think kids want to hear, like it’s OK to make mistakes. It’s OK. And so I think those are the stories that I really, really connect with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Yeah, and breaking something of your parents or tearing something that is always terrifying as a kid. Definitely. Okay, so what books can you recommend that feature Vietnamese American characters?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan:\u003c/strong> Oh, there’s so many. I really love the book Wishes. I believe that one’s by Monty. And I also I love, I loved The Best We Could Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I actually met Tee when she was still working on it and I was there at the launch of her book and it’s just been so beautiful seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And also I feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance right now. I see creative power, cultural power, building in the Vietnamese community. And I love it, I love. And Viet talks about this often, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to eventually go beyond the pain and trauma of war, which of course is vital and important and must be honored. But for us, to move forward as individuals and as a community, we have to see beyond the heartache, the pain and see the potential, the joy, the future. And so much of our future is in our young people who get to have so many opportunities that we and our parents didn’t get to have, but they get right this second. Any other books you want to recommend? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about coming out and being queer. There’s Family Style about food. Oh, there’s a great, really interesting book called My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s told, this is actually maybe more of an adult book, but it’s her perspective of living in Vietnam and her father’s experience of living in Vietnam. So it’s both of their experiences living abroad and the book eventually converges in the center where they meet. It’s very interesting. It’s like a dual memoir. Oh, you know what? I wanna give a big shout out. I wanna to give a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So when I graduated art school, I was brand new to the field. I had no examples of Vietnamese people in the arts. And I was browsing spectator books in Oakland one day and I picked up this book and I just loved the art. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was just so good. I believe it was Vampirina Ballerina. but I picked it up and I suddenly saw the name and it was a Vietnamese name, the last name Pham. And it was such a beautiful, inspiring moment where I remember saying, if she can do it, I can do. And actually I had this beautiful full circle moment where I was on stage with her last year at the Viet Book Fest, presented by Vala. And I got to tell her the story and it was just beautiful that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and writer making it happen. If my 18 year old self could see her and just know that even though my community has no idea what I’m pursuing, it is possible. I can be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it really does not give up telling their story, making art, being creative. And if you see your little, if you your little making art and being creative, let that flourish. It’s gonna show up in so many different ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Those are great recommendations. I hope that more kids and parents read those books. I hope they see themselves in the stories and also embody what gives them joy. And at every age, art is that, and it can unlock so many other experiences, much like what you have learned throughout your career. So thank you, Minnie Phan, for being here with us on Mind Shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minnie Phan: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Minnie Phan is a children’s book illustrator who recently published Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and she’s a writer and artist based in Oakland. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>As host of \u003ca href=\"https://www.thestackspodcast.com/\">The Stacks\u003c/a> podcast and book club, Traci Thomas reads a lot of books, mostly for adults. So when it’s time to read with her young children, she finds herself learning new things about old classics, like “Charlotte’s Web.” Listen to the latest episode of the MindShift Podcast to hear how Thomas sources books suggestions, and what books she hopes her kids read when they’re older.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2847341218\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Welcome to the Mind Shift podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Today, we are going to talk about books for young readers with Tracy Thomas. She’s the host of the Stacks podcast which is all about books and the people who read and write them. She’s interviewed so many great authors, every week, and has a book club, newsletter and Discord with avid readers. We’ll hear about some books she’s reading with her young kids and what she hopes they read in the future. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BREAK\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Traci Thomas, you read a lot of books, and in your podcast, you also talk about a book you’re reading with your twin boys – the minis as you call them. I don’t know if you’re done with that book, but tell me about your experience reading it with your kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yes. So I call my kids the mini stacks. They are almost five now, identical twin boys. And we are reading Charlotte’s Web, which was one of my favorite books as a kid. And we started reading it out loud, chapter by chapter. We’re not super far. And there’s about, I think, 35 chapters in the book. So we’re around chapter five right now. Some nights we just read a picture book. But it’s been really special because I wasn’t sure they were old enough to read a chapter book. And they’re loving it. When they’re at the end of each chapter, I say to them, So what happened? And they’ll say they were going to get rid of the pig because he was small, but the girl kept them. So it’s been really fun to kind of listen to them as they take in one of my absolute favorite books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And why is it a favorite of yours? What is your memory of Charlotte’s Web?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> So my memory as a child of Charlotte’s Web was just that. I loved the characters. I loved Charlotte, I loved Wilbur. I loved the mouse so much. The rat who eats the Smorgasbord, which is like my favorite word that I learned from a book as a child. And I also loved the friendship at the center of it. And then I went back and reread it as an adult a few years ago. And I’ve decided it is this great feminist manifesto, which I was sort of surprised by in my rereading, how much I was impacted by Charlotte and Fern and how they got stuff done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I’m going to have to go back and read that book with that with an eye on that as well. So thanks for putting that out. So Tracy, what do you look for in a children’s book? Are you looking at Amazon rankings buzz from a top ten list or thinking about the classics?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> So when I go to the bookstore to buy children’s books, I’m always asking the booksellers what they’re into. I read mostly adult books, but obviously now that I have children, I do read a quite a bit of children’s books and it’s not my, you know, my lane professionally. So I’m relying on librarians, booksellers. There’s a great Instagram account called \u003ca href=\"https://hereweeread.com/\">Here Wee Read\u003c/a>. It’s run by Charnaie Gordon, and she focuses on reading children’s books that are by diverse ranges of authors, whether that’s racially ability, wise, gender, all of these things. And I rely on her a lot to kind of put me on to stuff that’s coming or stuff that’s brand new. I’m rarely looking at Amazon lists. I’m mostly relying on people that I know in my community, whether that’s a librarian or a bookseller or friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Great. And I think you’re a millennial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas: \u003c/strong>I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I’m in Gen X.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>And as parents, you know, we get to make up for our own childhoods, Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>And at least, like, try to make sure our kids have what was missing from our own upbringing. That’s why I bought a lot of Linda Sue Park books. How are you doing that with the book choices you make?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> That’s so interesting. You know, I. I had a really lovely childhood. My parents did a really good job of reading to me and also always reading around me. So I don’t really think about it as making up for my childhood. But I do think that, you know, as a I’m sort of an elder millennial, I guess we were we were reading a lot of books that were canonical that were written by white men and didn’t deal with the stories of people from marginalized backgrounds. And so I do think that I’m always sort of looking towards that. A thing that I have noticed with children’s books, especially the picture books, is that sometimes you’ll get a picture book and you’ll look at the cover and there will be a Black child on the cover. And I’m like, my gosh, a book about a Black kid by Black people. And then you flip to the back to see who the authors are and there’s no picture. And then you Google them and you’re like, these are white people writing books about Black children, which isn’t inherently bad or wrong. But it is an interesting trend that I’ve noticed in the children’s book space because there is this need for diverse books. So that’s something that I’m really more focused on, is making sure that I’m finding stories that are, you know, own voices stories, stories about groups of people by those groups of people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And I used to know the stat off the top of my head. I think it was University of Wisconsin. There’s a children’s book organization there. And they had a stat that showed I think it was like the racial ethnic breakdown of children’s book characters and that animals had a big representation, whereas, like people of color, were highly marginal, marginalized compared to the rest of the population.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> And also, even when the when the protagonists of children’s books are non-humans, they’re almost always male. They’re almost always like boy dragons or boy donkeys or boy rocks or whatever the the object is or the animal is. And so that’s another thing that’s sort of lacking. I don’t have a study for that. This is more of just something that I’ve noticed as I’m reading and I’m seeing the pronouns and I’m like, why is this unicorn a boy? Why is this, you know, grocery store cart a boy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I hope that organization explores that as well. So thank you for pointing that out. Obviously, you love books. So am I correct in assuming you’re stockpiling books for when your kids are older say like middle grades? Or do you have like a long, very long wish list in your notes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> I have this community called the Stacks Pack, and there’s so many wonderful educators and parents in that community and we have a thread on our Discord for kids book recommendations. So I have been paying attention to the middle grade suggestions, and I know as I get closer and closer, I will be adding to this list. But it’s a pretty small list so far, I have to say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>What what books are you thinking of? What, what popped out that made it to your list?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/td/podcast/ep-345-the-fear-of-vulnerability-with-jason-reynolds/id1362164483?i=1000676767473\">Jason Reynolds\u003c/a>, is my fave. I love him. He’s been on the show a few times, most recently in November. And he’s got this book\u003cem> Look Both Ways\u003c/em>, which I have read, but I cannot wait to read it to my children. It’s a it’s a short story collection, really, about ten different stories about kids who he calls the walkers. And those are kids who walk to school. And it’s all about their journeys after school headed home. And it is so sweet and so tender and it made me cry, which is hard to do. So that’s one. And he’s got a few other middle grade books that I’m excited about. I know Nick Stone has some middle grade books that I want to check out as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what about like when they’re older, like teenagers? What what what are you thinking about for teenagers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So I definitely have read a lot more Y.A. books for that sort of older teen age range. And you know, as I mentioned before, I’m always really excited about Own Voices stories because I think as a parent I can only do so much and I can only provide so much information and I can try to teach them how to be empathetic and show them, you know, my experiences. But I think especially as they get into that teen age, relying on the books to kind of open up their eyes to what’s bigger and what’s possible. So I’m always looking at own voices, stories, especially at that age group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I also have a passion for nonfiction and there’s not a lot of nonfiction for young adult readers. There’s sort of some nonfiction stuff like National Geographic-y kind of books for that middle grade age of like, here’s every fact you need to know about a swordfish. But when it gets to be that middle grade and they’re looking for more of a narrative nonfiction, there’s not a ton. But some of the books that I have flagged that I really, really hope my kids will be interested in, there’s a book called \u003cem>The 57 Bus\u003c/em> by Dashka Slater, which is about a crime that happened in my hometown of Oakland, California, where a child lit another child who was non-binary on fire on the 57 bus. And it’s all about sort of what happened between these two kids, but also about gender and about race and sort of sociopolitical implications of the geography of Oakland. And it’s a really great book so I’m hoping my kids will read that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> The one thing I appreciated about that book is it’s set in a place that you are familiar with. And, you know, maybe that’s something that people can get from local library or bookseller recommendations, you know, books that students can see where they live in the story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, other books, other nonfiction that pops into my head for young adults is there’s an author named Paula Yoo, and she just released a book called \u003cem>Rising from the Ashes\u003c/em>, which is all about the 1992 uprisings in Los Angeles after the beating of Rodney King and the acquittal of the people who beat him. And she wrote another book about a hate crime that took place in the 80s in Michigan called, it’s about Vincent Chen and it’s called \u003cem>From a Whisper to a Rallying Cry\u003c/em>. And both of these books are such beautiful history, narrative, nonfiction. They are for young readers. I devoured both of them and was just so taken by them. And I really, really hope and also these also have really strong senses of place, Los Angeles and in Detroit. And they also really contextualize the time. And I think especially, you know, as I get older and I start to read about history that took place before I was born and I think, wow, how come nobody taught me about this? I hope that my kids will find books like these for themselves to learn about times before they were alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tracy, you’ve interviewed hundreds of authors, maybe thousands, and I’m sure like no matter the genre, the topic of their experiences with reading, you know, as they were children growing up comes up. What are some books or experiences you’ve heard, identified that have inspired those authors to be creative and share their stories with the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I have interviewed a lot of people. Not quite a thousand, not yet, but maybe we’ll get there. One of the things that I find really interesting about the show and what keeps me doing it every single week for the last seven, almost seven years, is that writers come to the work in so many different ways and they have such different relationships to books, which has actually made me feel better about being a parent, thinking, Well, if my kid isn’t into reading now, that doesn’t mean that they’re not ever going to get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Someone like Jason Reynolds, he famously has talked about how he’d never read a book until he was an adult. He has gone back since and read. And then there’s also Mitchell Jackson, who’s a Pulitzer Prize winner. He also said he never read books growing up and he’s now, you know, reads books as an adult, but he reads them in a really different way. He’s reading them for craft and looking at it in a way that maybe it isn’t. He said he’s never read a book for pleasure. That’s how he said it, which I thought was really interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then on the flip side, you know, there’s hundreds of authors who have been on the show who talked about being voracious readers as children who have such strong memories of going to the library as kids. I’m thinking of Professor Eve Dunbar, who is a teacher of African-American literature at Vassar, and she talked about how the library basically raised her. Her parents took her there instead of getting her a babysitter. And she would sit and she would read. And she talked about reading so many books for children. But also as she got older, finding a love for adult books, which I could really relate to because I read a lot of adult books as a kid and I found so much excitement in both the sort of taboo nature of that, but also in the ability to sort of expand what I was allowed to read. So many authors have talked about loving Charlotte’s Web along with me, but also the books of Roald Dahl have been really impactful for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People have talked about reading the same books over and over and over. This idea of a comfort read which was sort of foreign to me. I don’t really reread books from my childhood. And people also talk a lot on my show about hating the books they are assigned as kids, hating books like Catcher in the Rye or Moby Dick. And I think that’s really fun and exciting, too, because I hope that young people feel comfortable in having strong opinions about literature, whether it’s things that they love or hate and that, you know, the adults in their lives, the teachers, the parents, caregivers, whoever, are encouraging them to have strong and full opinions about books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> If you were to focus on the love of reading, where do you think that comes from based on all these interviews you’ve done, like, where does that spark come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> I think it comes from a lot of different places for different people. I think some people love getting lost in the story. I think some people love the possibility of something they’ve never heard of, like that unfolding in front of their eyes as they’re reading. I think some people love words like truly just from a young age, love sentences and the way that words feel and move and are able to communicate things. And I think for some people, books are a way to build community, right? Like getting to know your librarian or getting to talk about books with a fellow classmate or in the classroom, getting to have these debates. So I think it can come from a lot of different places, and I think that’s good. I think that sometimes we get bogged down in this idea that books are one thing for everybody, and I think that the love of it can come from so many different places and that it can change over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And I think that’s why you’ve encouraged, you know, manga and audio books, different ways of interacting with text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, for sure. I know that people have a lot of strong opinions about what is reading and what isn’t reading. I believe that it’s all reading. I believe that it’s all good. I think we have to meet, especially for young people, I think we have to meet kids where they are. There’s a lot of conversation right now around kids aren’t reading enough. They’re not reading full length novels in school. There was just an article about that. And I think part of it is that A, their parents, us, we’re on our phones all the time. Why would they think that reading is something fun to do, whenever they look over at their caregivers and they’re on a device, right? So that’s part one. And I think part two is that we yuck their yum. We tell them that graphic novel is that’s not really reading. Those are just pictures. And I think that’s so dismissive and disrespectful not only to kids and their taste, but also to the authors and illustrators who create these fantastic books. I think many kids, all of us have different learning styles. Some people are auditory. Some people can learn really well with their eyes. And I think limiting reading to being something that can only be done off of a page, out of a physical thing is is not fair to kids who maybe don’t like to read off of the page, but then discovered they love books if they have the opportunity to listen to them. So I encourage it all. I think it’s all reading and I think that parents sometimes have to just let their kids like what they like because once they discover that they do like graphic novels, that’s going to open up the world to them in a whole new way. And maybe it will lead them to read books that don’t have illustrations, or maybe it will lead them to find even more exciting graphic books as they get older, and that that whole genre sort of develops and matures for adult readers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Last question. Is there a book you hope someone gets for you this holiday season?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> My gosh. You’re asking the question that everyone in my family wants to know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are, the true answer is no. I have so many books in my home and I don’t need anybody to get me a book. But I love cookbooks and I don’t cover a lot of cookbooks on my podcast, so I don’t get a lot of cookbooks sent to me. So I think that if someone in my family went out and was cookbook shopping, maybe they could find me something that would be really exciting to me. Maybe there’s a book, an older book by Claire Saffitz called \u003cem>Dessert Person \u003c/em>that I’ve always wanted, and I just never buy it for myself because again, I don’t need more books and I probably don’t need to be spending time all day baking. But that’s a that’s a cookbook that I sort of sneakily would love.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Can I make a cookbook recommendation? Yes. To you. Okay. So America’s Test Kitchen has a great line of children’s cookbooks. And I find the recipes a lot simpler. Like, you know, and findable. Right? It’s narrowed down to, I don’t know, like 150, a couple hundred recipes. Whereas like, the adult cookbooks are just massive and it’s too much. It’s overwhelming. And like the kids stuff, you know, the portions are good and it’s not fancy. It gets the job done. So America’s Test Kitchen Kids section.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Okay, I have to tell you this. Those cookbooks are those books have been bandied about in our Discord under the children’s book recommendation tab. Someone was asking for cookbooks for kids. So I’m telling you, the stacks pack my community. They, they know a good kids book. So I love that you’re vouching for them. Now. I’m like, okay, I have to get it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Highly recommend. All right. Tracy, thank you so much for sharing about your podcast, your experiences and a little bit about your author interviews that I hope everyone goes and take a listen to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tracy Thomas is the host and founder of The Stacks. It’s a podcast, book club, newsletter, Discord, and an overall experience. You can hear her also on NPR and Be Yours here and now. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As host of \u003ca href=\"https://www.thestackspodcast.com/\">The Stacks\u003c/a> podcast and book club, Traci Thomas reads a lot of books, mostly for adults. So when it’s time to read with her young children, she finds herself learning new things about old classics, like “Charlotte’s Web.” Listen to the latest episode of the MindShift Podcast to hear how Thomas sources books suggestions, and what books she hopes her kids read when they’re older.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2847341218\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Welcome to the Mind Shift podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Today, we are going to talk about books for young readers with Tracy Thomas. She’s the host of the Stacks podcast which is all about books and the people who read and write them. She’s interviewed so many great authors, every week, and has a book club, newsletter and Discord with avid readers. We’ll hear about some books she’s reading with her young kids and what she hopes they read in the future. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BREAK\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Traci Thomas, you read a lot of books, and in your podcast, you also talk about a book you’re reading with your twin boys – the minis as you call them. I don’t know if you’re done with that book, but tell me about your experience reading it with your kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yes. So I call my kids the mini stacks. They are almost five now, identical twin boys. And we are reading Charlotte’s Web, which was one of my favorite books as a kid. And we started reading it out loud, chapter by chapter. We’re not super far. And there’s about, I think, 35 chapters in the book. So we’re around chapter five right now. Some nights we just read a picture book. But it’s been really special because I wasn’t sure they were old enough to read a chapter book. And they’re loving it. When they’re at the end of each chapter, I say to them, So what happened? And they’ll say they were going to get rid of the pig because he was small, but the girl kept them. So it’s been really fun to kind of listen to them as they take in one of my absolute favorite books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And why is it a favorite of yours? What is your memory of Charlotte’s Web?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> So my memory as a child of Charlotte’s Web was just that. I loved the characters. I loved Charlotte, I loved Wilbur. I loved the mouse so much. The rat who eats the Smorgasbord, which is like my favorite word that I learned from a book as a child. And I also loved the friendship at the center of it. And then I went back and reread it as an adult a few years ago. And I’ve decided it is this great feminist manifesto, which I was sort of surprised by in my rereading, how much I was impacted by Charlotte and Fern and how they got stuff done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I’m going to have to go back and read that book with that with an eye on that as well. So thanks for putting that out. So Tracy, what do you look for in a children’s book? Are you looking at Amazon rankings buzz from a top ten list or thinking about the classics?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> So when I go to the bookstore to buy children’s books, I’m always asking the booksellers what they’re into. I read mostly adult books, but obviously now that I have children, I do read a quite a bit of children’s books and it’s not my, you know, my lane professionally. So I’m relying on librarians, booksellers. There’s a great Instagram account called \u003ca href=\"https://hereweeread.com/\">Here Wee Read\u003c/a>. It’s run by Charnaie Gordon, and she focuses on reading children’s books that are by diverse ranges of authors, whether that’s racially ability, wise, gender, all of these things. And I rely on her a lot to kind of put me on to stuff that’s coming or stuff that’s brand new. I’m rarely looking at Amazon lists. I’m mostly relying on people that I know in my community, whether that’s a librarian or a bookseller or friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Great. And I think you’re a millennial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas: \u003c/strong>I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I’m in Gen X.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>And as parents, you know, we get to make up for our own childhoods, Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>And at least, like, try to make sure our kids have what was missing from our own upbringing. That’s why I bought a lot of Linda Sue Park books. How are you doing that with the book choices you make?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> That’s so interesting. You know, I. I had a really lovely childhood. My parents did a really good job of reading to me and also always reading around me. So I don’t really think about it as making up for my childhood. But I do think that, you know, as a I’m sort of an elder millennial, I guess we were we were reading a lot of books that were canonical that were written by white men and didn’t deal with the stories of people from marginalized backgrounds. And so I do think that I’m always sort of looking towards that. A thing that I have noticed with children’s books, especially the picture books, is that sometimes you’ll get a picture book and you’ll look at the cover and there will be a Black child on the cover. And I’m like, my gosh, a book about a Black kid by Black people. And then you flip to the back to see who the authors are and there’s no picture. And then you Google them and you’re like, these are white people writing books about Black children, which isn’t inherently bad or wrong. But it is an interesting trend that I’ve noticed in the children’s book space because there is this need for diverse books. So that’s something that I’m really more focused on, is making sure that I’m finding stories that are, you know, own voices stories, stories about groups of people by those groups of people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And I used to know the stat off the top of my head. I think it was University of Wisconsin. There’s a children’s book organization there. And they had a stat that showed I think it was like the racial ethnic breakdown of children’s book characters and that animals had a big representation, whereas, like people of color, were highly marginal, marginalized compared to the rest of the population.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> And also, even when the when the protagonists of children’s books are non-humans, they’re almost always male. They’re almost always like boy dragons or boy donkeys or boy rocks or whatever the the object is or the animal is. And so that’s another thing that’s sort of lacking. I don’t have a study for that. This is more of just something that I’ve noticed as I’m reading and I’m seeing the pronouns and I’m like, why is this unicorn a boy? Why is this, you know, grocery store cart a boy?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I hope that organization explores that as well. So thank you for pointing that out. Obviously, you love books. So am I correct in assuming you’re stockpiling books for when your kids are older say like middle grades? Or do you have like a long, very long wish list in your notes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> I have this community called the Stacks Pack, and there’s so many wonderful educators and parents in that community and we have a thread on our Discord for kids book recommendations. So I have been paying attention to the middle grade suggestions, and I know as I get closer and closer, I will be adding to this list. But it’s a pretty small list so far, I have to say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>What what books are you thinking of? What, what popped out that made it to your list?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/td/podcast/ep-345-the-fear-of-vulnerability-with-jason-reynolds/id1362164483?i=1000676767473\">Jason Reynolds\u003c/a>, is my fave. I love him. He’s been on the show a few times, most recently in November. And he’s got this book\u003cem> Look Both Ways\u003c/em>, which I have read, but I cannot wait to read it to my children. It’s a it’s a short story collection, really, about ten different stories about kids who he calls the walkers. And those are kids who walk to school. And it’s all about their journeys after school headed home. And it is so sweet and so tender and it made me cry, which is hard to do. So that’s one. And he’s got a few other middle grade books that I’m excited about. I know Nick Stone has some middle grade books that I want to check out as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And what about like when they’re older, like teenagers? What what what are you thinking about for teenagers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So I definitely have read a lot more Y.A. books for that sort of older teen age range. And you know, as I mentioned before, I’m always really excited about Own Voices stories because I think as a parent I can only do so much and I can only provide so much information and I can try to teach them how to be empathetic and show them, you know, my experiences. But I think especially as they get into that teen age, relying on the books to kind of open up their eyes to what’s bigger and what’s possible. So I’m always looking at own voices, stories, especially at that age group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I also have a passion for nonfiction and there’s not a lot of nonfiction for young adult readers. There’s sort of some nonfiction stuff like National Geographic-y kind of books for that middle grade age of like, here’s every fact you need to know about a swordfish. But when it gets to be that middle grade and they’re looking for more of a narrative nonfiction, there’s not a ton. But some of the books that I have flagged that I really, really hope my kids will be interested in, there’s a book called \u003cem>The 57 Bus\u003c/em> by Dashka Slater, which is about a crime that happened in my hometown of Oakland, California, where a child lit another child who was non-binary on fire on the 57 bus. And it’s all about sort of what happened between these two kids, but also about gender and about race and sort of sociopolitical implications of the geography of Oakland. And it’s a really great book so I’m hoping my kids will read that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> The one thing I appreciated about that book is it’s set in a place that you are familiar with. And, you know, maybe that’s something that people can get from local library or bookseller recommendations, you know, books that students can see where they live in the story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, other books, other nonfiction that pops into my head for young adults is there’s an author named Paula Yoo, and she just released a book called \u003cem>Rising from the Ashes\u003c/em>, which is all about the 1992 uprisings in Los Angeles after the beating of Rodney King and the acquittal of the people who beat him. And she wrote another book about a hate crime that took place in the 80s in Michigan called, it’s about Vincent Chen and it’s called \u003cem>From a Whisper to a Rallying Cry\u003c/em>. And both of these books are such beautiful history, narrative, nonfiction. They are for young readers. I devoured both of them and was just so taken by them. And I really, really hope and also these also have really strong senses of place, Los Angeles and in Detroit. And they also really contextualize the time. And I think especially, you know, as I get older and I start to read about history that took place before I was born and I think, wow, how come nobody taught me about this? I hope that my kids will find books like these for themselves to learn about times before they were alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tracy, you’ve interviewed hundreds of authors, maybe thousands, and I’m sure like no matter the genre, the topic of their experiences with reading, you know, as they were children growing up comes up. What are some books or experiences you’ve heard, identified that have inspired those authors to be creative and share their stories with the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I have interviewed a lot of people. Not quite a thousand, not yet, but maybe we’ll get there. One of the things that I find really interesting about the show and what keeps me doing it every single week for the last seven, almost seven years, is that writers come to the work in so many different ways and they have such different relationships to books, which has actually made me feel better about being a parent, thinking, Well, if my kid isn’t into reading now, that doesn’t mean that they’re not ever going to get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Someone like Jason Reynolds, he famously has talked about how he’d never read a book until he was an adult. He has gone back since and read. And then there’s also Mitchell Jackson, who’s a Pulitzer Prize winner. He also said he never read books growing up and he’s now, you know, reads books as an adult, but he reads them in a really different way. He’s reading them for craft and looking at it in a way that maybe it isn’t. He said he’s never read a book for pleasure. That’s how he said it, which I thought was really interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then on the flip side, you know, there’s hundreds of authors who have been on the show who talked about being voracious readers as children who have such strong memories of going to the library as kids. I’m thinking of Professor Eve Dunbar, who is a teacher of African-American literature at Vassar, and she talked about how the library basically raised her. Her parents took her there instead of getting her a babysitter. And she would sit and she would read. And she talked about reading so many books for children. But also as she got older, finding a love for adult books, which I could really relate to because I read a lot of adult books as a kid and I found so much excitement in both the sort of taboo nature of that, but also in the ability to sort of expand what I was allowed to read. So many authors have talked about loving Charlotte’s Web along with me, but also the books of Roald Dahl have been really impactful for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>People have talked about reading the same books over and over and over. This idea of a comfort read which was sort of foreign to me. I don’t really reread books from my childhood. And people also talk a lot on my show about hating the books they are assigned as kids, hating books like Catcher in the Rye or Moby Dick. And I think that’s really fun and exciting, too, because I hope that young people feel comfortable in having strong opinions about literature, whether it’s things that they love or hate and that, you know, the adults in their lives, the teachers, the parents, caregivers, whoever, are encouraging them to have strong and full opinions about books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> If you were to focus on the love of reading, where do you think that comes from based on all these interviews you’ve done, like, where does that spark come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> I think it comes from a lot of different places for different people. I think some people love getting lost in the story. I think some people love the possibility of something they’ve never heard of, like that unfolding in front of their eyes as they’re reading. I think some people love words like truly just from a young age, love sentences and the way that words feel and move and are able to communicate things. And I think for some people, books are a way to build community, right? Like getting to know your librarian or getting to talk about books with a fellow classmate or in the classroom, getting to have these debates. So I think it can come from a lot of different places, and I think that’s good. I think that sometimes we get bogged down in this idea that books are one thing for everybody, and I think that the love of it can come from so many different places and that it can change over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> And I think that’s why you’ve encouraged, you know, manga and audio books, different ways of interacting with text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Yeah, for sure. I know that people have a lot of strong opinions about what is reading and what isn’t reading. I believe that it’s all reading. I believe that it’s all good. I think we have to meet, especially for young people, I think we have to meet kids where they are. There’s a lot of conversation right now around kids aren’t reading enough. They’re not reading full length novels in school. There was just an article about that. And I think part of it is that A, their parents, us, we’re on our phones all the time. Why would they think that reading is something fun to do, whenever they look over at their caregivers and they’re on a device, right? So that’s part one. And I think part two is that we yuck their yum. We tell them that graphic novel is that’s not really reading. Those are just pictures. And I think that’s so dismissive and disrespectful not only to kids and their taste, but also to the authors and illustrators who create these fantastic books. I think many kids, all of us have different learning styles. Some people are auditory. Some people can learn really well with their eyes. And I think limiting reading to being something that can only be done off of a page, out of a physical thing is is not fair to kids who maybe don’t like to read off of the page, but then discovered they love books if they have the opportunity to listen to them. So I encourage it all. I think it’s all reading and I think that parents sometimes have to just let their kids like what they like because once they discover that they do like graphic novels, that’s going to open up the world to them in a whole new way. And maybe it will lead them to read books that don’t have illustrations, or maybe it will lead them to find even more exciting graphic books as they get older, and that that whole genre sort of develops and matures for adult readers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Last question. Is there a book you hope someone gets for you this holiday season?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> My gosh. You’re asking the question that everyone in my family wants to know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are, the true answer is no. I have so many books in my home and I don’t need anybody to get me a book. But I love cookbooks and I don’t cover a lot of cookbooks on my podcast, so I don’t get a lot of cookbooks sent to me. So I think that if someone in my family went out and was cookbook shopping, maybe they could find me something that would be really exciting to me. Maybe there’s a book, an older book by Claire Saffitz called \u003cem>Dessert Person \u003c/em>that I’ve always wanted, and I just never buy it for myself because again, I don’t need more books and I probably don’t need to be spending time all day baking. But that’s a that’s a cookbook that I sort of sneakily would love.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Can I make a cookbook recommendation? Yes. To you. Okay. So America’s Test Kitchen has a great line of children’s cookbooks. And I find the recipes a lot simpler. Like, you know, and findable. Right? It’s narrowed down to, I don’t know, like 150, a couple hundred recipes. Whereas like, the adult cookbooks are just massive and it’s too much. It’s overwhelming. And like the kids stuff, you know, the portions are good and it’s not fancy. It gets the job done. So America’s Test Kitchen Kids section.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Okay, I have to tell you this. Those cookbooks are those books have been bandied about in our Discord under the children’s book recommendation tab. Someone was asking for cookbooks for kids. So I’m telling you, the stacks pack my community. They, they know a good kids book. So I love that you’re vouching for them. Now. I’m like, okay, I have to get it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Highly recommend. All right. Tracy, thank you so much for sharing about your podcast, your experiences and a little bit about your author interviews that I hope everyone goes and take a listen to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Traci Thomas:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Tracy Thomas is the host and founder of The Stacks. It’s a podcast, book club, newsletter, Discord, and an overall experience. You can hear her also on NPR and Be Yours here and now. We’ll bring you more ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing. The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When former educator \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.daniellebayardjackson.com/home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Danielle Bayard Jackson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was called into the principal’s office, she was told to stop reading whole books with her students. She was advised to focus on chapters and summaries instead, in preparation for upcoming standardized tests that emphasized shorter passages. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I knew I was being asked to do something that would be a disservice to my kids,” Jackson recalled. She continued to read full books with her students, who later scored well on the standardized tests. Jackson’s experience is common; many teachers face pressure to use excerpts rather than complete works, which aligns with test formats but \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">may impact students’ reading endurance and comprehension\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to journalist Rose Horowitch in The Atlantic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Horowitch’s interviews with college professors reveal concerns about students’ reading skills, even at elite institutions. “Professors were clear-eyed about the fact that students have probably never done all of the reading,” she said. Yet today’s students struggle with vocabulary and understanding a book’s overarching structure, often losing track of plots and complex narratives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61018/want-kids-to-love-reading-authors-grace-lin-and-kate-messner-share-how-to-find-wonder-in-books\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">well-documented benefits of reading\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the focus on testing has pushed many to bypass the unique advantages of full-length books. However, reintroducing full-length texts may unlock the rewards of sustained reading.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Making connections and Cultivating Empathy\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Full books are particularly effective at fostering empathy in readers and students may miss out on developing these qualities when they only read shorter passages. Additionally, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3559433/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">research shows\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that fiction elicits emotions from readers, who are likely to get “lost” in the narrative and identify with characters. “You could read about somebody and connect with them even if they lived a thousand years ago or far away or had such a different life,” Horowitch said. Discussions about characters and storylines, experts noted, can nurture these skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading also enables students to make broader connections to the world, whether it has to do with global events, personal conflicts, or societal dynamics. These connections to real life events are called \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/text-text-text-self-text-world-0\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">text-to-world connections\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://firstbook.org/solutions/diverse-books-study/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent study\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students engage more deeply when books have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55039/how-the-disrupttexts-movement-can-help-english-teachers-be-more-inclusive\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diverse characters and relatable topics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jackson recalled teaching \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lord of the Flies\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to her high schoolers. “It’s just such a cool and very important book about governing and groupthink,” she said. Through class discussions about personal experiences and acting out sections from the book, her students saw parallels between the characters’ experiences and situations they observe around them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Books also teach students to recognize how events unfold. “You’re noticing foreshadowing from chapter one, and then seeing it all come together in chapter 16,” Jackson noted as she recalled the excitement students will feel when they recognize a connection. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This emotional engagement helps students develop skills beyond reading, such as navigating nuanced arguments and reflecting on their own experiences, Horowitch said. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://virginialibrariesjournal.org/articles/10.21061/valib.v63i1.1474\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading fiction is shown to make people more open to changing their minds\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> —a valuable trait, especially as empathy-related activities like volunteerism decline and issues such as bullying increase.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building Endurance\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading entire books strengthens students’ endurance and focus, according to Horowitch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s really a skill to stay on one task for an extended period,” she said, sharing a professor’s observation that some students even struggle to focus on a 14-line sonnet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While technology’s role in diminishing attention spans isn’t definitive, studies suggest people \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59602/paper-books-linked-to-stronger-readers-in-an-international-study\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">read more deeply in physical books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> than on digital devices, which can \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57734/distracted-these-four-learning-strategies-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">distract with notifications\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Although students might \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61287/beyond-reading-logs-and-lexile-levels-supporting-students-multifaceted-reading-lives\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">read more than ever through social media\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the fragmented format doesn’t build reading stamina. “I don’t think anybody’s deep-reading Twitter comments,” Horowitch said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You’re good at what you practice. And the more time you spend reading these really small snippets of little words, whether it’s an Instagram comment or watching a TikTok video, that’s just what you’re used to,” said Horowitch. She added that sometimes it can be hard to read something that isn’t immediately rewarding the way that social media is. Students also spend \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/well/family/child-social-media-use.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more time on social media than they ever have before\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, leaving less time for reading for fun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is possible to gain that reading stamina back. Horowitch said that some people have experimented with committing to read a certain amount of pages and then steadily increasing the number of pages they read in one sitting. Danielle also said that it could be helpful for teachers to relate to students’ experiences when they struggle with a text. “When I read this in school, it kind of threw me off, too,” she would say, “But I’ve got you. I’m here with you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2189171731\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift. Where we discuss the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. You might’ve heard about The Atlantic article making waves lately. The headline? Some students—even those at elite universities—are struggling to read entire books. Whether you’ve read it yourself or just caught bits of the buzz, we’re here to break it down and get to the core of what’s really going on. Is this a crisis we need to worry about? Or is it just headline hype? Rose Horowitch wrote the article.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> I write primarily about education with some politics and general interest stories mixed in. I kept hearing scattered reports from professors that they were really noticing a change in their students reading habits over the past decade. And I was curious to see, you know, whether this was something that just a few people were experiencing or whether it was a much broader phenomenon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Rose talked to professors and learned that it wasn’t that college students don’t know how to read.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Their students are literate, you know, they can decode words and read sentences, but they have much narrower vocabularies than they used to. They really struggle digging into a text, getting through a text that might, you know, be sort of challenging that they kind of reached their limit much earlier, that they struggle to and even deal sort of with the architecture of a book and focus on small details while keeping in mind the overall plot and how they fit together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And surprisingly, it’s not just books that students are struggling with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> One thing that was sort of jaw-dropping for me was speaking with the chair of Georgetown University’s English department, and he was saying that he really notices these changes even when students are reading a sonnet and that, you know, it can be you can be reading something that’s 14 lines and it’s still just can be really hard for them to focus on it and get through it and really wrestle with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I asked Rose about the possible causes, and one was a usual suspect: digital media and technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> In speaking with experts, you know, they definitely did think that smartphones and social media played a role. You know, it seems that there was some disagreement over whether smartphones are really kind of rewiring people’s brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> There are so many things that affect a person’s attention span, that it’s hard to definitively say tech hurts learning. However, research by the National Library of Medicine shows that some tech is designed to draw people’s attention. These are known as persuasive technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch: \u003c/strong> It’s always engaging, always fun. And so it’s very hard to to kind of read something that’s not immediately rewarding. And another aspect of that is just that it’s like being on your smartphone just takes up so much time that, you know, people also seem to be reading a lot less just for fun because, you know, they’re spending their time on social media instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But, on the other hand, some literacy experts say we’re reading more than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Just in shorter bursts and, you know, with less kind of care. I mean, I don’t think anybody’s like deep reading their Twitter comments. Um There’s a lot of research that people sort of do tend to read more deeply when they’re reading on a print page instead of on a screen. Because it is really a skill to just stay on one task for an extended period of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> While it’s easy to blame technology, it’s not the only factor here.There’s also the role of schools and teaching. We’re going to take a quick break, and when we’re back, we’ll look at how education might be playing a part in this trend and what teachers can do to help. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nimah Gobir: I thought we could just blame everything on tech and call it a day, but high schools and middle school play a role in students’ reading abilities too. The subtitle on Rose Horowitch’s article in the Atlantic says, “To read a book in college, it helps to have read a book in high school.” And when I saw that I got a little chill because It’s like when the character in a scary movie realizes the call is coming from inside the house… or should i say inside our grade school buildings?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Professors that I spoke with also thought that the preparation that students were getting was, you know, an equally large, if not, you know, even more significant factor in it. There was a lot of emphasis, too, on, you know, preparing students for these standardized tests, you know, instead and just, you know, reading wasn’t something that was valued as much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For decades, standardized testing has emphasized shorter passages, encouraging teachers to focus on excerpts rather than full texts. But while this may boost test scores, it may also erode the endurance students need for book-length reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson: \u003c/strong> It started because a teacher came to observe my classroom. She called me down the next day. She told me that she noticed I was reading full books with the students. She asked politely that I not do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Danielle Bayard Jackson, talking about her experience as an English teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson: \u003c/strong>She suggested, “How about you read a chapter with the students and just summarize the rest? Because we’ve really got to focus on that test.” I think what’s so disturbing is you have teachers who are oftentimes not being treated like the experts that they are. I went to school for that. My degree is in that I know best practices. I know about how to maximize and optimize things for students’ learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Danielle decided to push back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> And it became a matter of personal integrity for me in that moment because I knew I was being asked to do something that would be that would be a disservice to my kids. I began to go to the library on campus and and ask the, you know, media center, you know, librarian, if I could get class sets of different books, one of them being \u003cem>Lord of the Flies\u003c/em>. I mean, that is a classic. And it’s so much fun to read. And so I did that a couple times for months. And she was in on it with me. And I’m pushing the cart to the room and pushing it back so they don’t see class sets in my classroom. And a couple of months later, they called me down and they let me know that my students scored the highest in the school on that assessment. And they asked me, “What did you do? What’s the secret?” And I have goosebumps now even recalling the moment because I told them, I said, “We’ve been reading.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This raises the question: what’s lost when students can’t engage with full books? Is it really such a big deal?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> They don’t get a chance to develop a certain endurance, right, to stick with something over time. So that skill in and of itself is really important and is transferable to a lot of other spaces. It’s not about the book. It’s about all the things that come with journeying through a book. So the first is a certain mental endurance because it’s mentally laborious sometimes to read through a text. They also miss making exciting connections, you know, because maybe it takes us, you know, couple of weeks to read through a book, but it’s really settling in with you more deeply. You’re starting to make connections to it. To the outside world. You can think about things more deeply. You’re noticing foreshadowing from chapter one, something felt a little a little odd. And then we see it all come together in Chapter 16. Character development, right? So we’re watching this person, this character over time and how they change. And we can unpack that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s possible that the shift in reading habits has less to do with skills and more to do with values. Students today are more focused on getting ready to enter the workforce and may feel like they have less time for reading for reading sake. Danielle now has a job that is coveted by young people. She’s a TikTok influencer who makes videos about how women can develop better communication practices. I asked her if reading plays a role in her current work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> I’m surprised to see that, you know, a lot of my after coming out of the classroom to see the way that my personal career journey has developed, you know, coaching people through friendships, studying friendship research, I didn’t see that for myself. I’m traveling across the country speaking and getting paid for videos on TikTok. I mean, that’s a part of it as a content creator, I suppose. I have to read those contracts, which are lengthy. I have to, you know, read through the research papers that I’m then going and sharing with people. Reading is a part of everything that we do. And you have to have a certain stamina to get through hearty things. You have to have the skill of pausing and to go back and to review and to make sure you’ve got clarity. It’s great that some things are coming in a bite size way, but then other things are are are not going to come in that way. But we need the skill to do both. And a lot of times what we don’t realize is a lot of these things that are coming in these bite sized packages are excerpts from larger things. So even teaching young people about context. So maybe you saw this TikTok video or this little essay or this little article. But a lot of times it’s being pulled from larger texts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It seems like reading can only benefit students when they enter the workforce, whether they are trying to be a content creator or an educator. Here’s Rose again\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Reading kind of trains you to deal with more nuanced arguments and also to reflect on yourself and and learn lessons about yourself through, you know, reading about someone else. What the professors that I spoke with were most worried about who was just what would what, if anything, would kind of take the place of reading in, in giving us these, you know, kind of, I guess, values or lessons that so far sort of reading has. And it’s not readily clear what what could be a substitute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It is worth remembering that people have been concerned about students’ academic skills for centuries. Even Socrates in 400 BC warned that writing would weaken memory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> A lot of people brought up that that example of Socrates talking about how writing would destroy memory because people wouldn’t need to use it anymore. Socrates was right. Like I could never memorize \u003cem>The Iliad\u003c/em>, you know, in the way that people who were used to memorizing things all the time could. But at the same time, like, I think it shows that, you know, the way that we read or write, you know, and kind of interface with information really does change. But, you know, you can still find a way to pass those ideas down. No matter what, we’ll potentially adapt to something new but there maybe is room for hope in that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That was Rose Horowitch and Danielle Bayard Jackson. We’ll have more minisodes coming down the pipeline to bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When former educator \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.daniellebayardjackson.com/home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Danielle Bayard Jackson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was called into the principal’s office, she was told to stop reading whole books with her students. She was advised to focus on chapters and summaries instead, in preparation for upcoming standardized tests that emphasized shorter passages. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I knew I was being asked to do something that would be a disservice to my kids,” Jackson recalled. She continued to read full books with her students, who later scored well on the standardized tests. Jackson’s experience is common; many teachers face pressure to use excerpts rather than complete works, which aligns with test formats but \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">may impact students’ reading endurance and comprehension\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to journalist Rose Horowitch in The Atlantic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Horowitch’s interviews with college professors reveal concerns about students’ reading skills, even at elite institutions. “Professors were clear-eyed about the fact that students have probably never done all of the reading,” she said. Yet today’s students struggle with vocabulary and understanding a book’s overarching structure, often losing track of plots and complex narratives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61018/want-kids-to-love-reading-authors-grace-lin-and-kate-messner-share-how-to-find-wonder-in-books\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">well-documented benefits of reading\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the focus on testing has pushed many to bypass the unique advantages of full-length books. However, reintroducing full-length texts may unlock the rewards of sustained reading.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Making connections and Cultivating Empathy\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Full books are particularly effective at fostering empathy in readers and students may miss out on developing these qualities when they only read shorter passages. Additionally, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3559433/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">research shows\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that fiction elicits emotions from readers, who are likely to get “lost” in the narrative and identify with characters. “You could read about somebody and connect with them even if they lived a thousand years ago or far away or had such a different life,” Horowitch said. Discussions about characters and storylines, experts noted, can nurture these skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading also enables students to make broader connections to the world, whether it has to do with global events, personal conflicts, or societal dynamics. These connections to real life events are called \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/text-text-text-self-text-world-0\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">text-to-world connections\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://firstbook.org/solutions/diverse-books-study/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent study\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students engage more deeply when books have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55039/how-the-disrupttexts-movement-can-help-english-teachers-be-more-inclusive\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diverse characters and relatable topics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jackson recalled teaching \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lord of the Flies\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to her high schoolers. “It’s just such a cool and very important book about governing and groupthink,” she said. Through class discussions about personal experiences and acting out sections from the book, her students saw parallels between the characters’ experiences and situations they observe around them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Books also teach students to recognize how events unfold. “You’re noticing foreshadowing from chapter one, and then seeing it all come together in chapter 16,” Jackson noted as she recalled the excitement students will feel when they recognize a connection. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This emotional engagement helps students develop skills beyond reading, such as navigating nuanced arguments and reflecting on their own experiences, Horowitch said. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://virginialibrariesjournal.org/articles/10.21061/valib.v63i1.1474\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading fiction is shown to make people more open to changing their minds\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> —a valuable trait, especially as empathy-related activities like volunteerism decline and issues such as bullying increase.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building Endurance\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading entire books strengthens students’ endurance and focus, according to Horowitch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s really a skill to stay on one task for an extended period,” she said, sharing a professor’s observation that some students even struggle to focus on a 14-line sonnet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While technology’s role in diminishing attention spans isn’t definitive, studies suggest people \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59602/paper-books-linked-to-stronger-readers-in-an-international-study\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">read more deeply in physical books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> than on digital devices, which can \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57734/distracted-these-four-learning-strategies-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">distract with notifications\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Although students might \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61287/beyond-reading-logs-and-lexile-levels-supporting-students-multifaceted-reading-lives\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">read more than ever through social media\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the fragmented format doesn’t build reading stamina. “I don’t think anybody’s deep-reading Twitter comments,” Horowitch said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You’re good at what you practice. And the more time you spend reading these really small snippets of little words, whether it’s an Instagram comment or watching a TikTok video, that’s just what you’re used to,” said Horowitch. She added that sometimes it can be hard to read something that isn’t immediately rewarding the way that social media is. Students also spend \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/well/family/child-social-media-use.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more time on social media than they ever have before\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, leaving less time for reading for fun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is possible to gain that reading stamina back. Horowitch said that some people have experimented with committing to read a certain amount of pages and then steadily increasing the number of pages they read in one sitting. Danielle also said that it could be helpful for teachers to relate to students’ experiences when they struggle with a text. “When I read this in school, it kind of threw me off, too,” she would say, “But I’ve got you. I’m here with you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2189171731\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift. Where we discuss the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. You might’ve heard about The Atlantic article making waves lately. The headline? Some students—even those at elite universities—are struggling to read entire books. Whether you’ve read it yourself or just caught bits of the buzz, we’re here to break it down and get to the core of what’s really going on. Is this a crisis we need to worry about? Or is it just headline hype? Rose Horowitch wrote the article.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> I write primarily about education with some politics and general interest stories mixed in. I kept hearing scattered reports from professors that they were really noticing a change in their students reading habits over the past decade. And I was curious to see, you know, whether this was something that just a few people were experiencing or whether it was a much broader phenomenon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Rose talked to professors and learned that it wasn’t that college students don’t know how to read.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Their students are literate, you know, they can decode words and read sentences, but they have much narrower vocabularies than they used to. They really struggle digging into a text, getting through a text that might, you know, be sort of challenging that they kind of reached their limit much earlier, that they struggle to and even deal sort of with the architecture of a book and focus on small details while keeping in mind the overall plot and how they fit together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And surprisingly, it’s not just books that students are struggling with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> One thing that was sort of jaw-dropping for me was speaking with the chair of Georgetown University’s English department, and he was saying that he really notices these changes even when students are reading a sonnet and that, you know, it can be you can be reading something that’s 14 lines and it’s still just can be really hard for them to focus on it and get through it and really wrestle with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I asked Rose about the possible causes, and one was a usual suspect: digital media and technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> In speaking with experts, you know, they definitely did think that smartphones and social media played a role. You know, it seems that there was some disagreement over whether smartphones are really kind of rewiring people’s brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> There are so many things that affect a person’s attention span, that it’s hard to definitively say tech hurts learning. However, research by the National Library of Medicine shows that some tech is designed to draw people’s attention. These are known as persuasive technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch: \u003c/strong> It’s always engaging, always fun. And so it’s very hard to to kind of read something that’s not immediately rewarding. And another aspect of that is just that it’s like being on your smartphone just takes up so much time that, you know, people also seem to be reading a lot less just for fun because, you know, they’re spending their time on social media instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But, on the other hand, some literacy experts say we’re reading more than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Just in shorter bursts and, you know, with less kind of care. I mean, I don’t think anybody’s like deep reading their Twitter comments. Um There’s a lot of research that people sort of do tend to read more deeply when they’re reading on a print page instead of on a screen. Because it is really a skill to just stay on one task for an extended period of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> While it’s easy to blame technology, it’s not the only factor here.There’s also the role of schools and teaching. We’re going to take a quick break, and when we’re back, we’ll look at how education might be playing a part in this trend and what teachers can do to help. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nimah Gobir: I thought we could just blame everything on tech and call it a day, but high schools and middle school play a role in students’ reading abilities too. The subtitle on Rose Horowitch’s article in the Atlantic says, “To read a book in college, it helps to have read a book in high school.” And when I saw that I got a little chill because It’s like when the character in a scary movie realizes the call is coming from inside the house… or should i say inside our grade school buildings?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Professors that I spoke with also thought that the preparation that students were getting was, you know, an equally large, if not, you know, even more significant factor in it. There was a lot of emphasis, too, on, you know, preparing students for these standardized tests, you know, instead and just, you know, reading wasn’t something that was valued as much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For decades, standardized testing has emphasized shorter passages, encouraging teachers to focus on excerpts rather than full texts. But while this may boost test scores, it may also erode the endurance students need for book-length reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson: \u003c/strong> It started because a teacher came to observe my classroom. She called me down the next day. She told me that she noticed I was reading full books with the students. She asked politely that I not do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Danielle Bayard Jackson, talking about her experience as an English teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson: \u003c/strong>She suggested, “How about you read a chapter with the students and just summarize the rest? Because we’ve really got to focus on that test.” I think what’s so disturbing is you have teachers who are oftentimes not being treated like the experts that they are. I went to school for that. My degree is in that I know best practices. I know about how to maximize and optimize things for students’ learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Danielle decided to push back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> And it became a matter of personal integrity for me in that moment because I knew I was being asked to do something that would be that would be a disservice to my kids. I began to go to the library on campus and and ask the, you know, media center, you know, librarian, if I could get class sets of different books, one of them being \u003cem>Lord of the Flies\u003c/em>. I mean, that is a classic. And it’s so much fun to read. And so I did that a couple times for months. And she was in on it with me. And I’m pushing the cart to the room and pushing it back so they don’t see class sets in my classroom. And a couple of months later, they called me down and they let me know that my students scored the highest in the school on that assessment. And they asked me, “What did you do? What’s the secret?” And I have goosebumps now even recalling the moment because I told them, I said, “We’ve been reading.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This raises the question: what’s lost when students can’t engage with full books? Is it really such a big deal?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> They don’t get a chance to develop a certain endurance, right, to stick with something over time. So that skill in and of itself is really important and is transferable to a lot of other spaces. It’s not about the book. It’s about all the things that come with journeying through a book. So the first is a certain mental endurance because it’s mentally laborious sometimes to read through a text. They also miss making exciting connections, you know, because maybe it takes us, you know, couple of weeks to read through a book, but it’s really settling in with you more deeply. You’re starting to make connections to it. To the outside world. You can think about things more deeply. You’re noticing foreshadowing from chapter one, something felt a little a little odd. And then we see it all come together in Chapter 16. Character development, right? So we’re watching this person, this character over time and how they change. And we can unpack that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s possible that the shift in reading habits has less to do with skills and more to do with values. Students today are more focused on getting ready to enter the workforce and may feel like they have less time for reading for reading sake. Danielle now has a job that is coveted by young people. She’s a TikTok influencer who makes videos about how women can develop better communication practices. I asked her if reading plays a role in her current work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danielle Bayard Jackson:\u003c/strong> I’m surprised to see that, you know, a lot of my after coming out of the classroom to see the way that my personal career journey has developed, you know, coaching people through friendships, studying friendship research, I didn’t see that for myself. I’m traveling across the country speaking and getting paid for videos on TikTok. I mean, that’s a part of it as a content creator, I suppose. I have to read those contracts, which are lengthy. I have to, you know, read through the research papers that I’m then going and sharing with people. Reading is a part of everything that we do. And you have to have a certain stamina to get through hearty things. You have to have the skill of pausing and to go back and to review and to make sure you’ve got clarity. It’s great that some things are coming in a bite size way, but then other things are are are not going to come in that way. But we need the skill to do both. And a lot of times what we don’t realize is a lot of these things that are coming in these bite sized packages are excerpts from larger things. So even teaching young people about context. So maybe you saw this TikTok video or this little essay or this little article. But a lot of times it’s being pulled from larger texts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It seems like reading can only benefit students when they enter the workforce, whether they are trying to be a content creator or an educator. Here’s Rose again\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> Reading kind of trains you to deal with more nuanced arguments and also to reflect on yourself and and learn lessons about yourself through, you know, reading about someone else. What the professors that I spoke with were most worried about who was just what would what, if anything, would kind of take the place of reading in, in giving us these, you know, kind of, I guess, values or lessons that so far sort of reading has. And it’s not readily clear what what could be a substitute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It is worth remembering that people have been concerned about students’ academic skills for centuries. Even Socrates in 400 BC warned that writing would weaken memory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rose Horowitch:\u003c/strong> A lot of people brought up that that example of Socrates talking about how writing would destroy memory because people wouldn’t need to use it anymore. Socrates was right. Like I could never memorize \u003cem>The Iliad\u003c/em>, you know, in the way that people who were used to memorizing things all the time could. But at the same time, like, I think it shows that, you know, the way that we read or write, you know, and kind of interface with information really does change. But, you know, you can still find a way to pass those ideas down. No matter what, we’ll potentially adapt to something new but there maybe is room for hope in that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That was Rose Horowitch and Danielle Bayard Jackson. We’ll have more minisodes coming down the pipeline to bring you ideas and innovations from experts in education and beyond. Hit follow on your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On a spring afternoon last year, students in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/MelAlterSmith\">Melissa Alter Smith\u003c/a>’s class bustled around the room, filling 16 ounce plastic bottles with hot water, food dye, glitter and glue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You can mix colors if you want. Just use one whatever you think represents the theme of your poem,” Smith instructed as students moved between stations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was English, not art class, and the goal was not just to make a pretty, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instructables.com/Calm-Bottle-aka-Glitter-Jar/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">calming\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle. Each student had selected a contemporary poem to analyze, and they chose food coloring and glitter that would represent the tone of the poem. When finished with their bottles, they wrote a paragraph on an index card, explaining their choices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9780803296381/reliquaria/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">R.A. Villanueva\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child. “The sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood and looking back when you have like, you’re growing up with your siblings,” Christina said as she held up her bottle. “But then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2019/05/31/tone-bottles-explore-tone-in-poetry-with-this-engaging-hands-on-activity/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tone bottles\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” exercise, which was created by teacher Valerie A. Person, is one of dozens on Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> website. Smith created the website as a place for teachers to share lesson plans as her hashtag, #teachlivingpoets, took off on social media in the late 2010s. The idea behind both the website and the hashtag is to encourage teachers to diversify the literary canon and expose students to the vibrant world of contemporary poetry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64741\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A white woman in a polka dot dress holds a pen and pad of sticky notes. She stands in front of a white board.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">High school teacher Melissa Smith is the creator of the #teachlivingpoets hashtag and website. \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith began using the #teachlivingpoets hashtag about eight years ago, after seeing how actively her students tuned in when she invited real poets to class to give readings and talk about their craft. After a few students asked to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she tweeted about it, and tagged the poets. One of them, Kaveh Akbar, replied: “Thank you for teaching living poets.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I was like, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born,” Smith said. “So every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it. They were sharing it, they were replying to it, they were eating it up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the idea and hashtag grew, so, too, did the need for lesson plans to teach the work of living poets. “You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filling that gap meant getting creative, even weird, Smith said, whether that means asking students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2023/11/30/exploring-structure-in-hanif-abdurraqibs-poem-it-is-maybe-time-to-admit-that-michael-jordan-definitely-pushed-off/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“walk a poem”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to feel the rhythm and patterns, having them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/06/shoe-design-as-poetry-analysis/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">design shoes based on a poem\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or facilitating a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/07/new-march-madness-poetry-bracket-2024/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March-Madness-style poetry smackdown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/StanfillKristin/status/1791633632274055590\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Christina, making the tone bottle reminded her of kindergarten – in a good way. “It makes it honestly a little bit more fun,” she said. “When you notice the colors and you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just ‘Oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone?’ You’re looking for more specifics.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Smith and former students, teaching and studying living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to current generations and empowers them to find themselves as readers and writers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Opening up the canon\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer, a former student of Smith’s and recent college graduate, remembers loving poetry as a kid – when her classes read whimsical poetry by Shel Silverstein. “In elementary school and middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like, way before we could even think about.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said that when she read centuries-old poetry, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. But things changed when she took Smith’s AP literature class at Lake Norman Charter High School. Reading books by contemporary poets, like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.clintsmithiii.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clint Smith\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://aimeenez.net/bio\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aimee Nezhukumatathil\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, reminded Farmer of her early love for the form. “18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Farmer, Clint Smith’s writing did something the classics did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. “For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were also African-American, we had a pride in what he was saying in the book,” she explained. “If he was talking about, like his father or his grandfather or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, so we were just able to build that pride and then also … how there’s also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64739\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64739\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Students in desks and on a couch in a classroom take notes. A person appears on smartboard screen at the front of the room.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students in Melissa Smith’s class at Lake Norman Charter High School take notes while watching Rudy Francisco recite “My Honest Poem.” \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Giving students a chance to see themselves in the literary canon is one of the biggest benefits of teaching living poets, according to Smith. She has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. With permission from her students, Smith shared the blog posts with H. Melt, who in turn sent signed book copies to the students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of Kaveh Akbar’s poems about addiction resonated with another student. “One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem,” Smith said. “Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it, and tied it to her own experiences with her family.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer. “And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that make all of this – the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom – worth it,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said Clint Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her. “A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Empowering young writers\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another powerful effect of teaching living poets, according to Smith, is empowering students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. It was like a full day and we had lunch with them,” said Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students. “I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson started writing poetry around age 15. “It felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing diary. Like a lot of just melodramatic high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Johnson planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path. “One of the big things that I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. You don’t have to adhere to strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop in Smith’s class was Johnson’s first time hearing poets read their work live. “That just changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Kind of hearing the tone and the voice that they intend for it to be read.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates. Heading into the semester, Smith’s influence was still present.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets,” Johnson said. “So when I was writing my syllabus, I was thinking a lot about it, and including as many living poets as possible that I felt like my students will be able to feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Embracing joy and rigor\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"http://caesura.nu/\">Villanueva\u003c/a> – the writer whose poem Christina analyzed and who Johnson met during the workshop – is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Smith on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He said it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language,” he said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Villanueva is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He said her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks teachers are too often told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What if rigor is not just pain?” He asked. “What if … what you’re actually trying to say is there’s a certain intensity? But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. … There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. But it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation. It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to try.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith said teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches. “It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students,” she said. “I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing, right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7494279697\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Shel Silverstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I cannot go to school today!” / Said little Peggy Ann McKay / “I have the measles and the mumps / A gash, a rash, and purple bumps / My mouth…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the voice of Shel Silverstein, who’s been one of the most popular poets for elementary schoolers – for multiple generations now. Recent college graduate Aaliyah Farmer remembers loving Silverstein’s poems when she was young.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In elementary school and like middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like way before we could even think about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says that when she read poetry from several centuries ago, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But things changed during her senior year of high school. That’s when Aaliyah took AP literature, and her teacher assigned books by contemporary poets, like Clint Smith and Aimee Nezhukumatathil.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was like a comparable experience, like five-year-old or six year old Aaliyah reading Shel Silverstein, like, I was so excited to read poetry. 18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, like, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Aaliyah, Clint Smith’s writing did something older poetry did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. Here’s an excerpt from Smith’s poetry collection, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">explores themes of lineage, tradition and Black humanity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clint Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My grandfather is a quarter century / older than his right to vote & two / decades younger than the president / who signed the paper that made it so. / He married my grandmother when they / Were four years younger than I am now / & were twice as sure about each other / As I’ve ever been about most things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were like also African American, we like, had a pride in what he was saying in the book. If he was talking about, like his father, or his grandfather, or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, like so we were just able to build that pride and then also, like, how there’s, like, also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, um, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer read Clint Smith’s book in a class at Lake Norman Charter High School in North Carolina. Her teacher, Melissa Smith, has made it her mission to bring vibrant contemporary poetry into her classroom. She encourages other teachers to do this too – through the social media hashtag #teachinglivingpoets. She’s written a book and created a website with the same name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I say teach living poets, I don’t mean to completely cut off those traditional canonical poets. To discover how they’re in conversation with poets today is actually really brilliant and amazing. It’s just we need to open the door wider to let more voices into our classrooms and who we’re teaching in our poetry curriculum.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa first observed the power of teaching living poets about eight years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when she found out that Pulitzer Prize finalist Morri Creech taught at a university not far from her school. She invited him to visit her classes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like, here, sitting in front of us and having conversation with us about his poems. And I distinctly remember one of my boys, he was decked out in his soccer uniform because he had a game later that day, and at the end of that class he said, ‘Miss Smith, that was the coolest class I ever had.’ And I was like, by golly, I’ve unlocked some sort of secret, right? I was like, I need to do this more and more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So she reached out to poets who were active online. She invited them to speak with her students in person and on Skype.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw just the energy change in my classroom. I saw their eyes light up. I saw them actually being interested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When some of Melissa’s students wanted to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she was thrilled. She tweeted about it, and tagged the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kaveh Akbar, one of my favorite, most favorite poets ever retweeted and said, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And I was like, huh, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born, was out of his, retweet, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And so every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it, they were sharing it, they were replying to it. They were eating it up.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the #teachlivingpoets hashtag grew, Melissa realized there weren’t a lot of materials for teaching contemporary poetry in high school English.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that. Right? And so I think a lot of teachers are – I don’t want to use the word fearful, but for lack of a better word, nervous or uncomfortable with teaching contemporary poetry, because it’s, they feel like they have to have all the answers. And that’s really not the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa created the Teach Living Poets website\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to fill the gap. She and other English teachers share free lesson plans there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sometimes as a teacher it can be a very isolating job, especially in our current climate, with teachers being attacked by angry parents and, you know, trying to ban books at school board meetings and whatnot. To have a community that you feel supported by and included in can be a game changer for some teachers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One activity Melissa’s students enjoy is a March Madness Poetry Bracket.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like the March Madness basketball tournaments. But instead of athletes competing, it’s poetry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to watch the poems one last time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Each day Melissa’s classes watch two poetry videos. Students decide which poem they think is best and try to persuade their classmates in an informal debate. Then they vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa tallies the votes across all periods. The winners from one week go head-to-head the next week, and so on. Until only two remain for the final round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s where things stand today. The students are going to vote for the big winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OMG. A true battle of champions.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first contender is “My Honest Poem” by Rudy Francisco. It’s an exploration of his fears and flaws. Here’s an excerpt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rudy Francisco: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m still learning how to whisper\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often loud in places where I should be quiet, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often quiet in places where I should be loud.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was born feet first and I’ve been backwards ever since.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other finalist in today’s showdown is called “Touchscreen” by Marshall Davis Jones. It’s about how technology is reshaping our lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marshall Davis Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Introducing the new Apple iPerson / complete with multitouch and volume control / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / my world is so digital / that I have forgotten what that feels like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of Melissa’s students take notes at desks around the edge of the room. Others lounge on comfy chairs in the middle, using lap pads to write on. When the second poem finishes playing, they dive into discussion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xuting: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s this one line where he says, ‘We used to be in the trees. We swung down, and then someone slipped a disc, and now we’re hunched over touchscreens.’ Right. And if you think of that image of, like, the human evolution, right. What is hunched over is the ape, the primates. And what is standing up is the human. And if we’re hunched over again, then, I mean, does that mean we’re going backwards? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They debate how well each poem conveys its message.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Collin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the quotes, for example, ‘I wonder what my bedsheets say when I’m not around.’ I feel like that’s kind of one of those things when you don’t know your own identity. So it’s kind of a broader message that Rudy is speaking, and I feel like that makes it where it’s easier to relate to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they reflect on bigger issues raised by the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I think that, um, the fact that technology is such a prevalent problem, like everybody knows. You are constantly told not to be on your phone, to limit your screen time, over and over and over. What isn’t talked about is how all of us face our own, like internal issues. That’s and I think that’s what makes, like ‘My Honest Poem’ more impactful because nobody really talks about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d like to say that I think a lot of these internal issues, at least in modern society, are being intensified by the technology talked about in ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These high school seniors are identifying literary devices, citing evidence to support their arguments, and connecting what they’ve heard to their own lives. These are all the things English teachers want to hear in class. They’re also laughing and being playful with each other. Melissa says that’s typical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, the kids are like, oh, yeah, this is fine. This is cool. But once we get down to, like, the Final Four and especially the last two poems, they start arguing. They start getting really, you know, invested in the poem that they like better. They, they try to convince their neighbor like, ‘no man, vote for the other one.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After 15 minutes of discussion, it’s time to pick a winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Heads down. Secret vote. Raise your hand if you want to vote for Rudy Francisco, ‘My Honest Poem.’ Raise your hand if you want to vote for Marshall Jones, ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students won’t hear the winner until the next day, but when Melissa counts votes across all her classes, “Touchscreen,” the poem about technology, comes out on top.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After the vote, they move on to an activity called tone bottles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, one of your glitter choices is going to represent the tone before the shift.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This lesson plan was created by another teacher, Valerie A. Person. She shared it on Melissa’s Teach Living Poets website.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s meant to help students capture the tone of a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, so what is the author’s attitude towards his subject before the shift? And then the other type of glitter you’re adding into your bottle is the tone after the shift, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each student has picked a poem to analyze. They fill a 16-ounce bottle with hot water and glue. Then add food dye, glitter and sequins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can mix colors if you want, just use one, whatever you think represents the theme of your poem.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they’re finished, Melissa adds mineral oil and hand soap to the bottles to create viscosity. Students shake up their bottles to see the glitter and sequins swirl around. They also write a paragraph on an index card, explaining how their tone bottle reflects their poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A student named Dean based his bottle on “Looking for the Golf Motel” by Richard Blanco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And why did you pick orange for your liquid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it reminds me of, like, the sunset that he was describing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what what glitter do you have in there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, like, a mixture of red and yellow to go, like, counteract the orange. But then I also like black describing his feelings when he couldn’t find it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aw, that’s really good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice job, Dean.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by R.A. Villanueva. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood, but then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is like it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows, like, the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it. But it’s also like the nostalgia of growing up with your siblings and, like, having these connections and these little fears that you like, create off each other.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Christina says she enjoys this approach to analyzing a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like it makes it honestly a\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> little bit more fun. It’s like kindergarten, but also it makes it more visual, because a lot of the time when you’re just writing what you feel from a poem or what you imagine, it’s when you notice, like, the colors and, like, you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone? Like, you’re looking for more specifics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With these activities, students are practicing the same academic skills as when they study any other piece of literature. But Melissa says focusing on living poets does two things that studying dead poets does not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first is that it diversifies the literary canon. We heard a little about that from Aaliyah, the former student who identified with Clint Smith’s poems about his experiences as an African American.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. Here’s an excerpt from H. Melt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>H. Melt: \u003c/b>When they say “we are all trapped in the wrong body” / Imposter, impossible / No. / We are on the bus next to you / In the cubicle next to you…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H. Melt sent signed book copies to Melissa’s two students after she shared their blogs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was really special that now they have this signed copy of a, of a poet that they studied in class and, and just fell in love with and felt that common bond with because that’s like part of their identity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kaveh Akbar’s poem about addiction resonated with another student. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaveh Akbar: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Fort Wayne I drank the seniors / Old Milwaukee Old Crow / in Indianapolis I stopped / now I regret / every drink I never took \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem. Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it and tied it to her own experiences with her family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that are – make all of this, the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom, worth it.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The second big thing Melissa says teaching living poets can do is empower students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started writing when I was about 15. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like, it felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing, like, diary. Like a lot of just, like, melodramatic, like high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop was her first time hearing poets read their work live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That just, like, changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Hearing, like, the tone and like the voice that they intend for it to be read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Jenna planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big things that, like I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. Like, you don’t have to like, um, adhere to, like, strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jenna is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been thinking a lot about Miss Smith, because I know that, like, I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And like, I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets and stuff. So when I was writing my syllabus I was thinking a lot about it. And like including as many living poets as possible, that I felt like my students could or will be able to, like, feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember how Jenna said she felt starstruck sitting next to a guest writer at the poetry workshop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I spoke with that poet – R.A. Villanueva, whose first name is Ron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/strong>We open class with still images where / by the thousands above Costa Brava / starlings flock and tumble, swirl in answer / to some unseen danger, their looping dark / against that bonfire sky, shifting\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b> Ron is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Melissa on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He says it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ron is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He says her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks, too often, teachers are told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What if rigor is not just pain? And like, what if rigor is what you’re actually trying to say is like – there’s a certain intensity. But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. Um, but it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to, to try. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa says teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students. I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing. Right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The contemporary poetry scene is full of innovative and diverse writers. By inviting those voices into their classrooms, teachers can open doors for students to connect with the rhythms and rhymes of poetry. And that can help them grow as readers, writers, and people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode would not have been possible without Melissa Smith. To learn more, you can read the book she wrote with Lindsay Illich. It’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students you heard in this episode were: Xuting, Collin, Emma, Sam, Dean and Christina.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Aaliyah Farmer, Jenna Johnson and Ron Villanueva.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David Boraks provided field recording.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening to Season 9 of the MindShift podcast. That’s it for these deep dive episodes. MindShift will be back soon with new episodes featuring conversations about big ideas in education. Be sure to follow the show so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor’s note: R.A. Villanueva’s poem ‘We open class with still images where’ first appeared in the fall 2024 issue of Mānoa: A Pacific Journal of International Writing.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "Teaching living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to students and empowers them as readers and writers.\r\n",
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"title": "Why Poetry Is Making a Comeback in Schools | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On a spring afternoon last year, students in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/MelAlterSmith\">Melissa Alter Smith\u003c/a>’s class bustled around the room, filling 16 ounce plastic bottles with hot water, food dye, glitter and glue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You can mix colors if you want. Just use one whatever you think represents the theme of your poem,” Smith instructed as students moved between stations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was English, not art class, and the goal was not just to make a pretty, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instructables.com/Calm-Bottle-aka-Glitter-Jar/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">calming\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle. Each student had selected a contemporary poem to analyze, and they chose food coloring and glitter that would represent the tone of the poem. When finished with their bottles, they wrote a paragraph on an index card, explaining their choices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9780803296381/reliquaria/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">R.A. Villanueva\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child. “The sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood and looking back when you have like, you’re growing up with your siblings,” Christina said as she held up her bottle. “But then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The “\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2019/05/31/tone-bottles-explore-tone-in-poetry-with-this-engaging-hands-on-activity/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tone bottles\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">” exercise, which was created by teacher Valerie A. Person, is one of dozens on Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> website. Smith created the website as a place for teachers to share lesson plans as her hashtag, #teachlivingpoets, took off on social media in the late 2010s. The idea behind both the website and the hashtag is to encourage teachers to diversify the literary canon and expose students to the vibrant world of contemporary poetry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64741\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A white woman in a polka dot dress holds a pen and pad of sticky notes. She stands in front of a white board.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6337-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">High school teacher Melissa Smith is the creator of the #teachlivingpoets hashtag and website. \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith began using the #teachlivingpoets hashtag about eight years ago, after seeing how actively her students tuned in when she invited real poets to class to give readings and talk about their craft. After a few students asked to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she tweeted about it, and tagged the poets. One of them, Kaveh Akbar, replied: “Thank you for teaching living poets.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I was like, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born,” Smith said. “So every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it. They were sharing it, they were replying to it, they were eating it up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the idea and hashtag grew, so, too, did the need for lesson plans to teach the work of living poets. “You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filling that gap meant getting creative, even weird, Smith said, whether that means asking students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2023/11/30/exploring-structure-in-hanif-abdurraqibs-poem-it-is-maybe-time-to-admit-that-michael-jordan-definitely-pushed-off/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“walk a poem”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to feel the rhythm and patterns, having them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/06/shoe-design-as-poetry-analysis/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">design shoes based on a poem\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or facilitating a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://teachlivingpoets.com/2024/03/07/new-march-madness-poetry-bracket-2024/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March-Madness-style poetry smackdown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Christina, making the tone bottle reminded her of kindergarten – in a good way. “It makes it honestly a little bit more fun,” she said. “When you notice the colors and you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just ‘Oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone?’ You’re looking for more specifics.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Smith and former students, teaching and studying living poets not only makes poetry more fun; it also makes it more accessible and relevant to current generations and empowers them to find themselves as readers and writers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Opening up the canon\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer, a former student of Smith’s and recent college graduate, remembers loving poetry as a kid – when her classes read whimsical poetry by Shel Silverstein. “In elementary school and middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like, way before we could even think about.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said that when she read centuries-old poetry, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. But things changed when she took Smith’s AP literature class at Lake Norman Charter High School. Reading books by contemporary poets, like \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.clintsmithiii.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clint Smith\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://aimeenez.net/bio\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aimee Nezhukumatathil\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, reminded Farmer of her early love for the form. “18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Farmer, Clint Smith’s writing did something the classics did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. “For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were also African-American, we had a pride in what he was saying in the book,” she explained. “If he was talking about, like his father or his grandfather or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, so we were just able to build that pride and then also … how there’s also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64739\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64739\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Students in desks and on a couch in a classroom take notes. A person appears on smartboard screen at the front of the room.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/DSC_6260-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students in Melissa Smith’s class at Lake Norman Charter High School take notes while watching Rudy Francisco recite “My Honest Poem.” \u003ccite>(David Boraks for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Giving students a chance to see themselves in the literary canon is one of the biggest benefits of teaching living poets, according to Smith. She has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. With permission from her students, Smith shared the blog posts with H. Melt, who in turn sent signed book copies to the students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of Kaveh Akbar’s poems about addiction resonated with another student. “One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem,” Smith said. “Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it, and tied it to her own experiences with her family.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer. “And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that make all of this – the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom – worth it,” Smith said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Farmer said Clint Smith’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her. “A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Empowering young writers\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another powerful effect of teaching living poets, according to Smith, is empowering students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. It was like a full day and we had lunch with them,” said Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students. “I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson started writing poetry around age 15. “It felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing diary. Like a lot of just melodramatic high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Johnson planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path. “One of the big things that I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. You don’t have to adhere to strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop in Smith’s class was Johnson’s first time hearing poets read their work live. “That just changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Kind of hearing the tone and the voice that they intend for it to be read.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Johnson is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates. Heading into the semester, Smith’s influence was still present.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets,” Johnson said. “So when I was writing my syllabus, I was thinking a lot about it, and including as many living poets as possible that I felt like my students will be able to feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Embracing joy and rigor\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"http://caesura.nu/\">Villanueva\u003c/a> – the writer whose poem Christina analyzed and who Johnson met during the workshop – is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Smith on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He said it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language,” he said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Villanueva is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He said her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks teachers are too often told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What if rigor is not just pain?” He asked. “What if … what you’re actually trying to say is there’s a certain intensity? But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. … There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. But it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation. It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to try.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Smith said teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches. “It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students,” she said. “I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing, right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7494279697\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Shel Silverstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I cannot go to school today!” / Said little Peggy Ann McKay / “I have the measles and the mumps / A gash, a rash, and purple bumps / My mouth…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the voice of Shel Silverstein, who’s been one of the most popular poets for elementary schoolers – for multiple generations now. Recent college graduate Aaliyah Farmer remembers loving Silverstein’s poems when she was young.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In elementary school and like middle school, we’re so used to reading poetry like that. And then whenever we got to, like, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, it was immediately like, oh, you’re reading Shakespeare or like Shakespeare-esque poets from previous, before, like way before we could even think about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says that when she read poetry from several centuries ago, the language and the themes felt disconnected from her life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But things changed during her senior year of high school. That’s when Aaliyah took AP literature, and her teacher assigned books by contemporary poets, like Clint Smith and Aimee Nezhukumatathil.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was like a comparable experience, like five-year-old or six year old Aaliyah reading Shel Silverstein, like, I was so excited to read poetry. 18-year-old, 17-year-old Aaliyah, reading Clint Smith and Aimee, like, I’m so excited to read it because I just understand it better than other poets I had read before.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Aaliyah, Clint Smith’s writing did something older poetry did not: It reflected the world she was growing up in. Here’s an excerpt from Smith’s poetry collection, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">explores themes of lineage, tradition and Black humanity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clint Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My grandfather is a quarter century / older than his right to vote & two / decades younger than the president / who signed the paper that made it so. / He married my grandmother when they / Were four years younger than I am now / & were twice as sure about each other / As I’ve ever been about most things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me and I would say my other friends that I had the class with that were like also African American, we like, had a pride in what he was saying in the book. If he was talking about, like his father, or his grandfather, or influential people in his life, we all have like that same person in our lives, like so we were just able to build that pride and then also, like, how there’s, like, also duality between slavery, but also everything that everything else that we’ve overcome, um, we were able to connect. And I think the pride for me came out in that sense as well.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah says \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Counting Descent\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has stuck with her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaliyah Farmer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the books from high school, I’m not going to lie, I did not keep. But that one I did keep.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aaliyah Farmer read Clint Smith’s book in a class at Lake Norman Charter High School in North Carolina. Her teacher, Melissa Smith, has made it her mission to bring vibrant contemporary poetry into her classroom. She encourages other teachers to do this too – through the social media hashtag #teachinglivingpoets. She’s written a book and created a website with the same name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I say teach living poets, I don’t mean to completely cut off those traditional canonical poets. To discover how they’re in conversation with poets today is actually really brilliant and amazing. It’s just we need to open the door wider to let more voices into our classrooms and who we’re teaching in our poetry curriculum.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa first observed the power of teaching living poets about eight years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when she found out that Pulitzer Prize finalist Morri Creech taught at a university not far from her school. She invited him to visit her classes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was like, here, sitting in front of us and having conversation with us about his poems. And I distinctly remember one of my boys, he was decked out in his soccer uniform because he had a game later that day, and at the end of that class he said, ‘Miss Smith, that was the coolest class I ever had.’ And I was like, by golly, I’ve unlocked some sort of secret, right? I was like, I need to do this more and more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So she reached out to poets who were active online. She invited them to speak with her students in person and on Skype.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw just the energy change in my classroom. I saw their eyes light up. I saw them actually being interested. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When some of Melissa’s students wanted to borrow her poetry books over spring break, she was thrilled. She tweeted about it, and tagged the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kaveh Akbar, one of my favorite, most favorite poets ever retweeted and said, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And I was like, huh, that has a real ring to it, doesn’t it? And so that’s how the hashtag was born, was out of his, retweet, ‘Thank you for teaching living poets.’ And so every time I would share then, anything I was doing in my classroom regarding living poets, I included that hashtag with it, and teachers were liking it, they were sharing it, they were replying to it. They were eating it up.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the #teachlivingpoets hashtag grew, Melissa realized there weren’t a lot of materials for teaching contemporary poetry in high school English.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can easily find a curriculum guide for Robert Frost’s work or for Shakespeare’s sonnets, right? But if you’re going to teach a poem that was just published a month ago, there’s no SparkNotes for that. Right? And so I think a lot of teachers are – I don’t want to use the word fearful, but for lack of a better word, nervous or uncomfortable with teaching contemporary poetry, because it’s, they feel like they have to have all the answers. And that’s really not the case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa created the Teach Living Poets website\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to fill the gap. She and other English teachers share free lesson plans there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sometimes as a teacher it can be a very isolating job, especially in our current climate, with teachers being attacked by angry parents and, you know, trying to ban books at school board meetings and whatnot. To have a community that you feel supported by and included in can be a game changer for some teachers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One activity Melissa’s students enjoy is a March Madness Poetry Bracket.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like the March Madness basketball tournaments. But instead of athletes competing, it’s poetry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to watch the poems one last time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Each day Melissa’s classes watch two poetry videos. Students decide which poem they think is best and try to persuade their classmates in an informal debate. Then they vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa tallies the votes across all periods. The winners from one week go head-to-head the next week, and so on. Until only two remain for the final round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s where things stand today. The students are going to vote for the big winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OMG. A true battle of champions.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first contender is “My Honest Poem” by Rudy Francisco. It’s an exploration of his fears and flaws. Here’s an excerpt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rudy Francisco: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m still learning how to whisper\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often loud in places where I should be quiet, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m often quiet in places where I should be loud.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was born feet first and I’ve been backwards ever since.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The other finalist in today’s showdown is called “Touchscreen” by Marshall Davis Jones. It’s about how technology is reshaping our lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marshall Davis Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Introducing the new Apple iPerson / complete with multitouch and volume control / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / doesn’t it feel good to touch? / my world is so digital / that I have forgotten what that feels like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of Melissa’s students take notes at desks around the edge of the room. Others lounge on comfy chairs in the middle, using lap pads to write on. When the second poem finishes playing, they dive into discussion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xuting: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s this one line where he says, ‘We used to be in the trees. We swung down, and then someone slipped a disc, and now we’re hunched over touchscreens.’ Right. And if you think of that image of, like, the human evolution, right. What is hunched over is the ape, the primates. And what is standing up is the human. And if we’re hunched over again, then, I mean, does that mean we’re going backwards? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They debate how well each poem conveys its message.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Collin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the quotes, for example, ‘I wonder what my bedsheets say when I’m not around.’ I feel like that’s kind of one of those things when you don’t know your own identity. So it’s kind of a broader message that Rudy is speaking, and I feel like that makes it where it’s easier to relate to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they reflect on bigger issues raised by the poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I, I think that, um, the fact that technology is such a prevalent problem, like everybody knows. You are constantly told not to be on your phone, to limit your screen time, over and over and over. What isn’t talked about is how all of us face our own, like internal issues. That’s and I think that’s what makes, like ‘My Honest Poem’ more impactful because nobody really talks about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d like to say that I think a lot of these internal issues, at least in modern society, are being intensified by the technology talked about in ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These high school seniors are identifying literary devices, citing evidence to support their arguments, and connecting what they’ve heard to their own lives. These are all the things English teachers want to hear in class. They’re also laughing and being playful with each other. Melissa says that’s typical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, the kids are like, oh, yeah, this is fine. This is cool. But once we get down to, like, the Final Four and especially the last two poems, they start arguing. They start getting really, you know, invested in the poem that they like better. They, they try to convince their neighbor like, ‘no man, vote for the other one.’ \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After 15 minutes of discussion, it’s time to pick a winner.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Heads down. Secret vote. Raise your hand if you want to vote for Rudy Francisco, ‘My Honest Poem.’ Raise your hand if you want to vote for Marshall Jones, ‘Touchscreen.’\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students won’t hear the winner until the next day, but when Melissa counts votes across all her classes, “Touchscreen,” the poem about technology, comes out on top.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After the vote, they move on to an activity called tone bottles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, one of your glitter choices is going to represent the tone before the shift.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This lesson plan was created by another teacher, Valerie A. Person. She shared it on Melissa’s Teach Living Poets website.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s meant to help students capture the tone of a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, so what is the author’s attitude towards his subject before the shift? And then the other type of glitter you’re adding into your bottle is the tone after the shift, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each student has picked a poem to analyze. They fill a 16-ounce bottle with hot water and glue. Then add food dye, glitter and sequins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can mix colors if you want, just use one, whatever you think represents the theme of your poem.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they’re finished, Melissa adds mineral oil and hand soap to the bottles to create viscosity. Students shake up their bottles to see the glitter and sequins swirl around. They also write a paragraph on an index card, explaining how their tone bottle reflects their poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A student named Dean based his bottle on “Looking for the Golf Motel” by Richard Blanco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And why did you pick orange for your liquid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it reminds me of, like, the sunset that he was describing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what what glitter do you have in there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have, like, a mixture of red and yellow to go, like, counteract the orange. But then I also like black describing his feelings when he couldn’t find it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aw, that’s really good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dean: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice job, Dean.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another student, Christina, chose a poem called, “Like When Passing Graveyards” by R.A. Villanueva. In it, the poet recalls holding his breath when riding past cemeteries as a child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the sparkles are for nostalgia and your childhood, but then also the dark color is the whole point of the poem is like it’s about a childhood fear. So I wanted to do something that shows, like, the darkness of a graveyard and the fear behind it. But it’s also like the nostalgia of growing up with your siblings and, like, having these connections and these little fears that you like, create off each other.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Christina says she enjoys this approach to analyzing a poem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christina: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like it makes it honestly a\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> little bit more fun. It’s like kindergarten, but also it makes it more visual, because a lot of the time when you’re just writing what you feel from a poem or what you imagine, it’s when you notice, like, the colors and, like, you’re able to point out more techniques and, like, the smaller details of a poem, especially when we’re looking for certain lines and certain words, rather than just oh, what’s the theme? What’s the tone? Like, you’re looking for more specifics. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With these activities, students are practicing the same academic skills as when they study any other piece of literature. But Melissa says focusing on living poets does two things that studying dead poets does not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first is that it diversifies the literary canon. We heard a little about that from Aaliyah, the former student who identified with Clint Smith’s poems about his experiences as an African American.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa has a lot of stories about her students finding personal connections to living poets. Like when she gave a blog writing assignment and two transgender students chose to write about the trans poet H. Melt. Here’s an excerpt from H. Melt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>H. Melt: \u003c/b>When they say “we are all trapped in the wrong body” / Imposter, impossible / No. / We are on the bus next to you / In the cubicle next to you…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H. Melt sent signed book copies to Melissa’s two students after she shared their blogs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was really special that now they have this signed copy of a, of a poet that they studied in class and, and just fell in love with and felt that common bond with because that’s like part of their identity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kaveh Akbar’s poem about addiction resonated with another student. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaveh Akbar: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Fort Wayne I drank the seniors / Old Milwaukee Old Crow / in Indianapolis I stopped / now I regret / every drink I never took \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my students’ father was struggling with alcoholism, and the way that the poem hit her was very different than how I took in the poem. Hers was just more raw and emotional and personal, and really beautiful, actually, in the way that she processed it and tied it to her own experiences with her family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Latina student told Melissa that her class was the first time in her entire schooling she’d been assigned a book by a Latino writer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she’s a senior. So it’s moments like that that are – make all of this, the Teach Living Poets hashtag, movement, website, all the things happening in the classroom, worth it.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The second big thing Melissa says teaching living poets can do is empower students as writers. Every spring, she organizes a big workshop where guest poets visit in person to give readings and discuss their craft with her students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was probably one of my favorite days of high school. I sat at a table with R.A. Villanueva and I was just, like, freaked out the whole time, like kind of starstruck.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Jenna Johnson, another of Melissa’s former students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started writing when I was about 15. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like, it felt important in the moment. But looking back, it’s like reading your embarrassing, like, diary. Like a lot of just, like, melodramatic, like high school love poems, breakup poems, all that stuff.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The workshop was her first time hearing poets read their work live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That just, like, changes how you can approach someone’s work completely. Hearing, like, the tone and like the voice that they intend for it to be read.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early in high school, Jenna planned to become a nurse. But when she didn’t like AP bio and loved AP lit, she started rethinking her path.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big things that, like I didn’t realize until I read contemporary poets is kind of like the lawlessness of poetry. Like, you don’t have to like, um, adhere to, like, strict forms or rhyme schemes or – kind of knowing that you can literally just write a poem and there’s so many different forms, you can do literally anything with it. That was a huge thing to me that felt like that made it something I could do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jenna is now in a creative writing master’s program at New York University. She wants to continue writing poetry and become a professor. This fall, she’s teaching a writing class for undergraduates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jenna Johnson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been thinking a lot about Miss Smith, because I know that, like, I felt like I had a really good education in poetry because of her. And like, I felt really well prepared going into undergrad and grad school that I knew of these contemporary poets and stuff. So when I was writing my syllabus I was thinking a lot about it. And like including as many living poets as possible, that I felt like my students could or will be able to, like, feel close to and feel like they can relate to a lot more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember how Jenna said she felt starstruck sitting next to a guest writer at the poetry workshop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I spoke with that poet – R.A. Villanueva, whose first name is Ron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/strong>We open class with still images where / by the thousands above Costa Brava / starlings flock and tumble, swirl in answer / to some unseen danger, their looping dark / against that bonfire sky, shifting\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b> Ron is not only a living poet. He’s also a middle school English teacher and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College. He met Melissa on Twitter, around the time she started the #teachlivingpoets hashtag. He says it was inspiring to see that conversation spread among teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa’s pedagogy really continues to vivify and bring to life over and over again, the fact that poetry is not some ancient, antiquated form for us to to be archeologists and dig around in. But it’s it’s that and something else. It’s something contemporary, it’s something modern. It’s something that people do because they love and are frustrated by language.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ron is a recurring guest at Melissa’s poetry workshop. He says her classroom is special because of the way she challenges students academically while also centering joy. He thinks, too often, teachers are told that joy and rigor can’t co-exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ron Villanueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What if rigor is not just pain? And like, what if rigor is what you’re actually trying to say is like – there’s a certain intensity. But intensity can also be imagination. And that’s what her classroom feels like. There are skills that are being tested, muscles that are being stretched. Um, but it’s not done only through trauma or grief or like rote memorization and then regurgitation.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something else. It’s something weirder. And I think that is what we should allow teachers to have space to, to try. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Melissa says teaching living poets has transformed not only what she teaches, but how she teaches.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Melissa Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It has re-sparked my passion for teaching in general. I have loosened up my sense of the need for control over the lesson and the learning and giving some of that control over to my students. I have come to realize for me in my classroom that the best learning happens when I actually don’t say a thing. Right? Where I allow my students to have a conversation, to collaborate and to explore a poem together, and then to share it with me.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The contemporary poetry scene is full of innovative and diverse writers. By inviting those voices into their classrooms, teachers can open doors for students to connect with the rhythms and rhymes of poetry. And that can help them grow as readers, writers, and people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode would not have been possible without Melissa Smith. To learn more, you can read the book she wrote with Lindsay Illich. It’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teach Living Poets.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students you heard in this episode were: Xuting, Collin, Emma, Sam, Dean and Christina.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Aaliyah Farmer, Jenna Johnson and Ron Villanueva.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David Boraks provided field recording.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening to Season 9 of the MindShift podcast. That’s it for these deep dive episodes. MindShift will be back soon with new episodes featuring conversations about big ideas in education. Be sure to follow the show so you don’t miss a thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>*Editor’s note: R.A. Villanueva’s poem ‘We open class with still images where’ first appeared in the fall 2024 issue of Mānoa: A Pacific Journal of International Writing.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To an outside observer, there’s nothing particularly special about the beige rug at the front of Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade classroom. But for Lyle, it’s the best spot in the room. It’s where students gather for morning meetings, read-alouds, and when Lyle wants to facilitate an intimate learning conversation instead of a lecture. Lyle compared the feeling on the rug to that of gathering around a campfire. “They’re all kind of sitting in a relaxed, comfortable place, there’s proximity, but there’s also, you know, just like a shared comfort level of having the rug,” she said. That makes it easier for her students to test new ideas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">express emotions\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">disagree civilly\u003c/a>. “It’s been a very intentional place for us every year to see each other as equals and see each other as people,” Lyle said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last spring, her students gathered on the rug as they kicked off a social studies unit on school desegregation in Virginia, where they live. Lyle projected vocabulary words, like segregation, prejudice and integration on the smartboard above their heads, and the class practiced saying them together. Then Lyle clicked forward to a \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/moton-school-story-digital-exhibit/\">black and white photo of a group of teenagers\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lyle asked the fourth graders to study the image closely. “I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The teenagers in the photo were students at R.R. Moton High School – a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia, just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders attended school.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1951, the Moton students \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/about/the-moton-story/\">went on strike to demand better school conditions\u003c/a>, which the white school board denied them. Their activism led to them becoming the only student plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63692/5-takeaways-on-school-segregation-70-years-after-brown-v-board\">70 years ago\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instead of reading about the Moton student strike in a textbook, fourth graders in Rockingham County Public Schools, where Lyle teaches, learn about it through photographs, diary entries and stories of the young people involved. These first-hand accounts of history are called primary sources. “A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history,” said Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are \u003ca href=\"https://www.socialstudies.org/tps\">learning history through primary sources\u003c/a>. That shift, according to Potter, arose in the last two decades as museums and archival institutions began digitizing their collections, making them accessible to teachers and students online. At the Library of Congress, Potter and her team develop resources to help teachers use primary sources in their classrooms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An exit ticket for a fourth grade lesson on segregation and integration at Rockingham County Public Schools. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Rockingham County, Lyle and a team of teachers designed a fourth grade civil rights unit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> using the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://c3teachers.org/inquiry-design-model/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inquiry Design Model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, an instructional approach that encourages students to explore and investigate topics, rather than being passive recipients of information. In the civil rights unit, primary sources prompt that inquiry and exploration. That’s possible because, according to Lyle and her colleagues, primary sources can make \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62588/how-two-teachers-spark-a-love-of-history-with-their-wardrobes\">people and events from history\u003c/a> feel more real and more textured for students. They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">necessary\u003c/a> as young people \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">navigate a digital world\u003c/a> filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building empathy with historical figures\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the first day of the civil rights unit last spring, Lyle didn’t tell her students all the details about the Moton student strike. That would come later. Looking at the photo of the students was a preview amid a broader introduction to racial segregation. After answering some initial questions, Lyle clicked through slides that included background information on the Jim Crow era and more black and white photos of segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. With each slide, the fourth graders pointed out details and asked questions. As the images marched on, their frustration with the injustices of the past rose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64640\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 350px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64640\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"350\" height=\"467\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 350px) 100vw, 350px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fourth graders in Miranda Lyle’s class sort through historical photos trying to identify which ones reflect segregation and which ones reflect integration. The activity was part of a lesson on the Civil Rights Movement in Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“So far, are you guys feeling like ‘separate but equal’ is fair?” Lyle asked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Nooo! No!” The students shouted before she even finished the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think that’s a lie,” said one student, Alex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said their reactions illustrated how photographs can help students empathize with people and events of the past. “Giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story,” she said. “I think it tells [them] we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Examining agency and decision making\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At another fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, students know teacher Carrie Lillard as a history buff who will occasionally bust out a rap from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hamilton\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. On one wall of her room, a bulletin board says “History is storytelling” and features over a dozen cards highlighting notable people and events in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61095/how-a-virginia-educator-teaches-black-history-with-joy\">Virginia history\u003c/a>. By framing history as storytelling, Lillard said she wants students to see that the past is composed of people who made choices. And to be able to analyze the consequences – good, bad or complicated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64658\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A bulletin board in Carrie Lillard’s fourth grade classroom at Mountain View Elementary School in Rockingham County, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the historical characters the fourth graders learn the most about in the civil rights unit is \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/biography-barbara-rose-johns-powell/\">Barbara Johns\u003c/a>, the quiet 16-year-old\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who led her \u003ca href=\"https://motonschoolstory.org/home/\">Moton High School classmates\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the strike for better school facilities and resources. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/\">Robert Russa Moton Museum\u003c/a>, Moton High School was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days. The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students. When Johns and her classmates went on strike, they wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age, or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62224/student-activists-go-to-summer-camp-to-learn-how-to-help-institute-a-green-new-deal-on-their-campuses\">can change the world\u003c/a> and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that,” said Lillard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64647\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64647\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a smiling woman shown from shoulders up. Grass, bushes and a house are in the background.\" width=\"800\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-768x480.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Barbara Johns led classmates at Moton High School in a fight for better school facilities that they took all the way to the Supreme Court. She is shown here as an adult. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Robert Russa Moton Museum)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In addition to photos, the Rockingham County fourth graders learn about Johns’ motivations through another primary source: her diary. They read entries that Johns wrote later in life, recounting her time in high school. In one entry, she recalled missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it. In the meantime, the bus arrived, picked them up and left me standing there by the roadside waiting to thumb a ride with whomever came by. About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality – and I still didn’t know what.”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Emery, a fourth grader in Lillard’s class, reading Johns’ own words brought this history to life. “I liked how it was, in particular, how it was [the story of] a young girl,” Emery said. “Normally we learn about older people. But no, we learned about a 16-year-old, still a teenager.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the Moton students and other Brown v. Board plaintiffs were successful, school segregation didn’t end immediately in Virginia. Local and state officials there actively defied the court ruling, even closing schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard said her emphasis on viewing historical figures as people who had agency and made choices helps her students process this complex history. “I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over? They still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62290/teaching-kids-the-right-way-to-say-im-sorry\">apologize to a friend\u003c/a> doesn’t automatically fix it,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Fostering critical thinking skills\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard and Lyle said that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. For Lyle, that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources. “They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it,” she said of earlier students. “I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because they were passive in that process.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> An example of that kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54470/why-content-knowledge-is-crucial-to-effective-critical-thinking\">critical thinking\u003c/a> occurred as Lyle’s students studied old photos of segregation. While examining a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood, a student named Lily raised her hand.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What makes me mad is that when the sign says, ‘We want white tenants in our white community,’ it has American flags on it,” Lily said. “And the Black people … are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said that Lily’s observation and question impressed her: “I was kind of sitting back there like, ‘Oh my goodness, that’s brilliance.’ And that’s because she had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Potter, the Library of Congress educator, agreed that giving students opportunities to study primary sources can foster critical thinking. “The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from,” she said. “That is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And goodness knows we need more of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For teachers \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new to primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Potter recommended picking one item or document that complements the secondary sources in the curriculum. Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source using a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/documents/Primary_Source_Analysis_Tool_LOC.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">one-page worksheet\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> developed by her team. The library’s website also contains \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/?fa=partof_type:primary+source+set\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">curated sets of primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> related to popular curriculum topics, such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/new-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the New Deal\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/womens-suffrage/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">women’s suffrage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/rosa-parks/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rosa Parks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blog posts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> offer tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8008383152\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, do you like to make pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do! They’re one of my favorite foods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Have you ever put peanut butter in your pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It sounds delicious, but Kara, why do you ask?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently learned that civil rights icon Rosa Parks put peanut butter in her pancake batter. Her recipe is handwritten on the back of a bank envelope.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the recipe itself is terrific. It really is. If you need a good pancake recipe, add some peanut butter to it, and you will love them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Lee Ann Potter. She’s the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, where the Rosa Parks papers are held.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress is home to all sorts of documents from America’s past. They range from legal records\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to items that reflect the daily life of historical figures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rosa Parks collection includes a date book\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, photos of her with family,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> birthday cards sent to her by admiring children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a series in her papers of her membership cards. And, you know, you see her membership card for AARP. And it’s like, never occurred to me that Rosa Parks might be a member of AARP. But her membership card is in her papers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann and her team develop resources\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to help teachers use Library of Congress materials like these\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is not a day that goes by when I don’t stumble on something in the collection that either catches my breath or makes me think, oh, who can I tell about this cool thing? And\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the former classroom teacher in me is always thinking about, what is the thing that might have captured student attention or gotten students to think differently or deeply about something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The materials at the Library of Congress are what we call primary sources. Unlike textbooks, they are first-hand accounts of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history. They can be newspapers. They can be photographs, maps, architectural drawings, sound recordings. They can be receipts. They can be memos. They can be scribbles. They can be doodles. They can be, truly, objects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are learning history through primary sources. That wasn’t always the norm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the past two decades, museums and archival institutions started digitizing their collections and putting them online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think as soon as the materials became available and more and more of these organizations worked in partnership with educators to really start building some pedagogy and tools around using these materials as classroom tools, as exercises, as opportunities for students, that’s when everything started to change.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Primary sources can make people and events of the past feel more real and more textured for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly necessary as young people navigate a digital world filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is, is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from and constantly wonder, what is the original source for this bit of information that someone is trying to convey to me? And I think that is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And and goodness knows we need more of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of MindShift, we’re going to hear how primary sources can bring history to life and deepen students’ understanding of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll do that by visiting two schools in Virginia where students are learning about the Civil Rights Movement. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What happened after the Civil war?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Reconstruction!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To dig into the power of learning with primary sources, we’re visiting a fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what are the words we’re gonna talk about today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation, and pre-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation and prejudice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those are the vocab words that students are learning in Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade class. The class is gathered on a beige rug at the front of the room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You think you know what segregation means? What do you think it means?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the start of a social studies unit about school desegregation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">White and Black people were separated from each other based on race, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next, Miranda projects a black and white photo of a group of teenagers onto the smart board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re going to read this picture. I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today. What do you, what do you notice? Why don’t you have a quiet thumb up. Keep looking at the screen. See if you can give me more than one idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The photograph is from 1951. It shows about 40 African-American teenagers standing outside looking at the camera. The boys wear collared shirts and in some cases ties. The girls wear dresses or long skirts and blouses. Many also wear long coats. In the background there are two buildings and a sidewalk flanked by mud and puddles.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school. What makes you think they’re going to school?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they have, like, uniforms on. Well, like they have clothes that look school-y.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have clothes that look kind of professional, kind of ready for school, I like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These teenagers were students at R.R. Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia – just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders are sitting now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda’s students don’t know it yet, but the young people they’re looking at were some of the plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional 70 years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Abigail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Abigail: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like, like, in the background those are like schools. Like the schools that they were in, like those small buildings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like cabins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like schools, smaller buildings, you notice they kind of look like cabins. What makes you think cabins when you look at that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like they’re made out of, like, wood and, like, it doesn’t really look like somewhere you’d want to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The buildings they’re discussing were temporary classrooms made with cheap tar paper siding. Some people in Farmville said they looked like chicken coops. County officials built them to deal with overcrowding at Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To protest the disparities, a quiet 16-year-old named Barbara Johns led her classmates in a two-week\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> strike in 1951.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda’s fourth grade class will learn about all of that during this social studies unit. For now, this photo of the R. R. Moton students is just a teaser. Today is all about understanding the historical context of the Jim Crow era.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re going to keep going because today we’re going to be looking at a lot of different pictures and a lot of different primary sources like this one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda clicks through slides that include background info and more black and white photos depicting segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. The fourth graders point out details and ask questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As they study the photos, they’re getting a strong sense of what racial segregation looked like. And they are not happy about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, so far, are you guys feeling like separate but equal …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is really a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is fair?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you feeling so far, Alex?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, I think that’s a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You think that separate but equal is a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda says, these photographs help students empathize with people and events of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Actually giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story. I think it tells us we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s one student, Lily, responding to a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What makes me mad is that when the sign says ‘We want white people in our white community,’ it has American flags on it. And the Black people are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re angry because those flags are for the United States, right? And you’re saying all races live in the United States. And at this point, remember, this is after that 15, 13, 14, the 15th amendment. So the Constitution says, yeah, these people are Americans, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda and a team of teachers in Rockingham County designed this civil rights unit using inquiry-based teaching. That’s a method that encourages students to ask questions about the world and develop analytical thinking skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lily’s observation about the flag is an example of how primary sources can drive inquiry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was really impressed. I was I was kind of, like, sitting back there like, oh my goodness, that’s brilliance. And that’s because she had the, you know, like, had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Learning with primary sources has some great benefits, but it also comes with challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big ones is that documents from the past may use language we wouldn’t use today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, some of the photos that Miranda’s students were looking at included signs referring to Black people as “colored.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is a sign that we’re going to see in a lot of different primary sources we look at. But remember, we talked last week about that Maya Angelou quote in, um, growth mindset that said, ‘know better and do better.’ Remember how we talked about how that’s something that was on those signs, but are we going to use that term? No, because we know better than that, so we’re going to do better than that. So using terms like African-American, even saying things like Black people or brown people, that’s allowed. But we want to stray away from using words that aren’t used anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with the upfront discussion about appropriate language, these are fourth graders. They’re still learning. And things can come up that require gentle correction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> … that the Blacks are not getting treated very nicely because they have like —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Black people – we want to make sure we have that ‘people’ word at the end there. The Black people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmhm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda tries to model the “know better, do better” idea herself, too. During their Civil War study, she had a slide that used the term “runaway slaves.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was talking with my class one day. I was like, I don’t like how that sounds, because, you know, and they’re like, ‘Well, yeah, runaway sounds like it’s a bad thing.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went online and looked for alternate terms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And one that I found that my kids have really attached to was freedom seekers, because we talked about how ‘runaway’ sounds like they’re doing something wrong and they’re not doing anything wrong. They’re trying to, you know, gives them just a different way of looking at the entire situation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not just language that can be hard in social studies. Topics like slavery and segregation reveal difficult truths about violence and injustice in American history. These topics have also become politicized in recent years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to the news outlet Education Week, 17 states have passed bills or other policies that limit teachers’ ability to discuss racism in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That includes here in Virginia, where the governor issued an executive order that bans so-called “divisive concepts,” such as critical race theory – which is an academic and legal framework.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proponents of such policies often say that talking about racial injustice will make white children feel guilty. Miranda’s school is predominantly white\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and that hasn’t been her experience.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I had a student put on a study guide, ‘Which side did Virginia support?’ It was like ‘Virginia,’ he outlined in a heart, and then ‘supported the Confederacy’ and then had a broken heart. So they’re able to see, like, it’s not ‘you’re the problem’ or ‘Virginia today is the problem.’ They’re able to kind of see these, yeah, that was a big mistake people made for a long time. That was actually really detrimental. Why? Because kids, I think even our age, when we were children would have had the same, ‘That’s not fair’ had it been presented as, look at these primary sources. Look at these actual pictures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda also makes sure her students know that even though the R.R. Moton facilities were unequal, the students there were smart and had teachers who maintained high expectations for them. She doesn’t want her students to unconsciously equate bad conditions with people being downtrodden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just because they had more supplies or they had better buildings or things like that, does that mean that the students weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Does it mean that the teachers weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember we talked about at one of the schools we’re going to discuss, at R.R. Moton high school, one of the teachers would go on to work for NASA. Does that sound like somebody who’s going to be a good science teacher? Somebody who goes to NASA?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A good math teacher?\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So we’re going to keep talking about these things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this introduction to segregation, the fourth graders will learn about Barbara Johns, the 16-year-old I mentioned earlier. She led her classmates in a fight for equal education that they took all the way to the Supreme Court.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That story is the beating heart\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of this unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the coolest things about Barbara Johns is that she was one, a student. She was not the same age as my own kids that I teach, but she was still a student who saw a problem in her school, which was in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Carrie Lillard. She’s another fourth grade teacher in Rockingham County. She was on the same team as Miranda that created this unit about Barbara Johns and her classmates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, can change the world and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One way the fourth graders learn about Barbara Johns is from another primary source: her diary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one of Carrie’s students, Lily. She’s reading a diary entry that Barbara Johns wrote later in life recounting her time in high school. In it, Barbara recalls missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s another student, Emery, recalling what Barbara did after the day she missed the bus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went up to her music teacher and said, ‘Hey, I have a problem’. And the teacher and she told her the problem. And the music teacher said, ‘If you have a problem, why don’t you fix it?’ And she gathered all these people in the auditorium and said, ‘If you want to be with me, you can be with me.’ And then she led a strike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading the diary entries helped Emery connect with Barbara Johns and the Brown v. Board case on a personal level.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I liked how it was, in particular, how it was a young girl. Normally when we, we learn about, like, older people. But no, we learned about a 16 year old. Still a teenager.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did that stand out to you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because usually to teenagers, like these days in 2024, do some dumb stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">laughs\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Barbara Johns wasn’t doing dumb stuff?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, she was doing brilliant stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rockingham County teachers told me that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. Miranda says that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it. And if they held onto it, what I could say about it now. I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because it was more, they were passive in that process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I heard examples of all of those skills as the fourth graders discussed photos and diary entries from Virginia’s history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re not just sitting back and being passive listeners to a story. They’re seeing the actual actions and the consequences of those actions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those critical thinking skills also help students wrestle with the complexity of the past. Like the fact that schools did not immediately integrate after Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Virginia, local and state officials actively defied the court ruling. They even closed schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carrie says the fourth graders learn about all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Approaching history from ‘we are we are a combination of all of the choices we make’ helps when we get to this point. I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over, they still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to apologize to a friend doesn’t automatically fix it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For their final assignment, the fourth graders write a letter to Barbara Johns’ sister, Joan Johns Cobbs. She participated in the Moton student strike and is still alive today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dear Mrs. Johns Cobbs. We have been learning about your sister Barbara Johns’ legacy in my history class and the impacts she has made in our lives. She was brave by doing what is right because she felt like she had to do something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Leigha, now a fifth grader. She’s reading the letter she wrote a year earlier in Carrie’s class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… I’m going to defend girls because she inspired me to say ‘no’ when boys say girls can’t run or play sports, but they can. Barbara Johns has inspired me to stand up for what I believe in. Thank you for making the USA what it is today. Thanks for everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about an entire social studies unit centered around primary sources. But teachers don’t have to overhaul the whole curriculum to get started teaching this way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann Potter’s team at the Library of Congress recommends picking one primary source that complements the secondary sources schools are using.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress’s website for teachers has a one-page worksheet to walk students through that observe-reflect-question cycle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The website also has curated sets of primary sources related to popular curriculum topics.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And lots of tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">History is rich with stories. Primary sources can unlock those stories by humanizing the people who came before us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When young people form connections with the past, it helps them understand our world today and determine the future they want to create.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to Miranda Lyle, Carrie Lillard and all of their fourth grade students. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Levi, Abigail, Alex, Lily D., Lilly J., Emery and Leigha.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Lee Ann Potter at the Library of Congress and Beau Dickenson at Rockingham County Public Schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about Barbara Johns, you can visit the Robert Russa Moton Museum in Farmville, Virginia\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To an outside observer, there’s nothing particularly special about the beige rug at the front of Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade classroom. But for Lyle, it’s the best spot in the room. It’s where students gather for morning meetings, read-alouds, and when Lyle wants to facilitate an intimate learning conversation instead of a lecture. Lyle compared the feeling on the rug to that of gathering around a campfire. “They’re all kind of sitting in a relaxed, comfortable place, there’s proximity, but there’s also, you know, just like a shared comfort level of having the rug,” she said. That makes it easier for her students to test new ideas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62501/want-your-kids-to-be-happier-and-healthier-start-talking-with-them-about-uncomfortable-emotions\">express emotions\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52590/why-debate-may-be-the-best-way-to-save-constructive-disagreement\">disagree civilly\u003c/a>. “It’s been a very intentional place for us every year to see each other as equals and see each other as people,” Lyle said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last spring, her students gathered on the rug as they kicked off a social studies unit on school desegregation in Virginia, where they live. Lyle projected vocabulary words, like segregation, prejudice and integration on the smartboard above their heads, and the class practiced saying them together. Then Lyle clicked forward to a \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/moton-school-story-digital-exhibit/\">black and white photo of a group of teenagers\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lyle asked the fourth graders to study the image closely. “I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The teenagers in the photo were students at R.R. Moton High School – a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia, just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders attended school.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In 1951, the Moton students \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/about/the-moton-story/\">went on strike to demand better school conditions\u003c/a>, which the white school board denied them. Their activism led to them becoming the only student plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63692/5-takeaways-on-school-segregation-70-years-after-brown-v-board\">70 years ago\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instead of reading about the Moton student strike in a textbook, fourth graders in Rockingham County Public Schools, where Lyle teaches, learn about it through photographs, diary entries and stories of the young people involved. These first-hand accounts of history are called primary sources. “A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history,” said Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are \u003ca href=\"https://www.socialstudies.org/tps\">learning history through primary sources\u003c/a>. That shift, according to Potter, arose in the last two decades as museums and archival institutions began digitizing their collections, making them accessible to teachers and students online. At the Library of Congress, Potter and her team develop resources to help teachers use primary sources in their classrooms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/exit-ticket-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An exit ticket for a fourth grade lesson on segregation and integration at Rockingham County Public Schools. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Rockingham County, Lyle and a team of teachers designed a fourth grade civil rights unit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> using the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://c3teachers.org/inquiry-design-model/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inquiry Design Model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, an instructional approach that encourages students to explore and investigate topics, rather than being passive recipients of information. In the civil rights unit, primary sources prompt that inquiry and exploration. That’s possible because, according to Lyle and her colleagues, primary sources can make \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62588/how-two-teachers-spark-a-love-of-history-with-their-wardrobes\">people and events from history\u003c/a> feel more real and more textured for students. They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63390/ai-images-and-conspiracy-theories-are-driving-a-push-for-media-literacy-education\">necessary\u003c/a> as young people \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">navigate a digital world\u003c/a> filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Building empathy with historical figures\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the first day of the civil rights unit last spring, Lyle didn’t tell her students all the details about the Moton student strike. That would come later. Looking at the photo of the students was a preview amid a broader introduction to racial segregation. After answering some initial questions, Lyle clicked through slides that included background information on the Jim Crow era and more black and white photos of segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. With each slide, the fourth graders pointed out details and asked questions. As the images marched on, their frustration with the injustices of the past rose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64640\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 350px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64640\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"350\" height=\"467\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/asa-alex-best-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 350px) 100vw, 350px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fourth graders in Miranda Lyle’s class sort through historical photos trying to identify which ones reflect segregation and which ones reflect integration. The activity was part of a lesson on the Civil Rights Movement in Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“So far, are you guys feeling like ‘separate but equal’ is fair?” Lyle asked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Nooo! No!” The students shouted before she even finished the question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think that’s a lie,” said one student, Alex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said their reactions illustrated how photographs can help students empathize with people and events of the past. “Giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story,” she said. “I think it tells [them] we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Examining agency and decision making\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At another fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, students know teacher Carrie Lillard as a history buff who will occasionally bust out a rap from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hamilton\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. On one wall of her room, a bulletin board says “History is storytelling” and features over a dozen cards highlighting notable people and events in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61095/how-a-virginia-educator-teaches-black-history-with-joy\">Virginia history\u003c/a>. By framing history as storytelling, Lillard said she wants students to see that the past is composed of people who made choices. And to be able to analyze the consequences – good, bad or complicated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64658\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/historystorytelling-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A bulletin board in Carrie Lillard’s fourth grade classroom at Mountain View Elementary School in Rockingham County, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the historical characters the fourth graders learn the most about in the civil rights unit is \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/learn/biography-barbara-rose-johns-powell/\">Barbara Johns\u003c/a>, the quiet 16-year-old\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who led her \u003ca href=\"https://motonschoolstory.org/home/\">Moton High School classmates\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the strike for better school facilities and resources. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://motonmuseum.org/\">Robert Russa Moton Museum\u003c/a>, Moton High School was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days. The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students. When Johns and her classmates went on strike, they wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age, or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62224/student-activists-go-to-summer-camp-to-learn-how-to-help-institute-a-green-new-deal-on-their-campuses\">can change the world\u003c/a> and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that,” said Lillard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64647\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64647\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white photo of a smiling woman shown from shoulders up. Grass, bushes and a house are in the background.\" width=\"800\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1-768x480.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/09/BarbaraJohns1.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Barbara Johns led classmates at Moton High School in a fight for better school facilities that they took all the way to the Supreme Court. She is shown here as an adult. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Robert Russa Moton Museum)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In addition to photos, the Rockingham County fourth graders learn about Johns’ motivations through another primary source: her diary. They read entries that Johns wrote later in life, recounting her time in high school. In one entry, she recalled missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it. In the meantime, the bus arrived, picked them up and left me standing there by the roadside waiting to thumb a ride with whomever came by. About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality – and I still didn’t know what.”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Emery, a fourth grader in Lillard’s class, reading Johns’ own words brought this history to life. “I liked how it was, in particular, how it was [the story of] a young girl,” Emery said. “Normally we learn about older people. But no, we learned about a 16-year-old, still a teenager.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the Moton students and other Brown v. Board plaintiffs were successful, school segregation didn’t end immediately in Virginia. Local and state officials there actively defied the court ruling, even closing schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard said her emphasis on viewing historical figures as people who had agency and made choices helps her students process this complex history. “I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over? They still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62290/teaching-kids-the-right-way-to-say-im-sorry\">apologize to a friend\u003c/a> doesn’t automatically fix it,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Fostering critical thinking skills\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lillard and Lyle said that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. For Lyle, that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources. “They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it,” she said of earlier students. “I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because they were passive in that process.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> An example of that kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54470/why-content-knowledge-is-crucial-to-effective-critical-thinking\">critical thinking\u003c/a> occurred as Lyle’s students studied old photos of segregation. While examining a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood, a student named Lily raised her hand.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What makes me mad is that when the sign says, ‘We want white tenants in our white community,’ it has American flags on it,” Lily said. “And the Black people … are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lyle said that Lily’s observation and question impressed her: “I was kind of sitting back there like, ‘Oh my goodness, that’s brilliance.’ And that’s because she had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Potter, the Library of Congress educator, agreed that giving students opportunities to study primary sources can foster critical thinking. “The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from,” she said. “That is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And goodness knows we need more of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For teachers \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">new to primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Potter recommended picking one item or document that complements the secondary sources in the curriculum. Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source using a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/teachers/getting-started-with-primary-sources/documents/Primary_Source_Analysis_Tool_LOC.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">one-page worksheet\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> developed by her team. The library’s website also contains \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/?fa=partof_type:primary+source+set\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">curated sets of primary sources\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> related to popular curriculum topics, such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/new-deal/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the New Deal\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/womens-suffrage/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">women’s suffrage\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/rosa-parks/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rosa Parks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blog posts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> offer tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8008383152\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, do you like to make pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do! They’re one of my favorite foods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Have you ever put peanut butter in your pancakes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. It sounds delicious, but Kara, why do you ask?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I recently learned that civil rights icon Rosa Parks put peanut butter in her pancake batter. Her recipe is handwritten on the back of a bank envelope.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the recipe itself is terrific. It really is. If you need a good pancake recipe, add some peanut butter to it, and you will love them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Lee Ann Potter. She’s the Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, where the Rosa Parks papers are held.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress is home to all sorts of documents from America’s past. They range from legal records\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to items that reflect the daily life of historical figures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rosa Parks collection includes a date book\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, photos of her with family,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> birthday cards sent to her by admiring children\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a series in her papers of her membership cards. And, you know, you see her membership card for AARP. And it’s like, never occurred to me that Rosa Parks might be a member of AARP. But her membership card is in her papers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann and her team develop resources\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to help teachers use Library of Congress materials like these\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in their classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is not a day that goes by when I don’t stumble on something in the collection that either catches my breath or makes me think, oh, who can I tell about this cool thing? And\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the former classroom teacher in me is always thinking about, what is the thing that might have captured student attention or gotten students to think differently or deeply about something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The materials at the Library of Congress are what we call primary sources. Unlike textbooks, they are first-hand accounts of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A primary source at its very core is the raw material of history. They can be newspapers. They can be photographs, maps, architectural drawings, sound recordings. They can be receipts. They can be memos. They can be scribbles. They can be doodles. They can be, truly, objects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students today are learning history through primary sources. That wasn’t always the norm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the past two decades, museums and archival institutions started digitizing their collections and putting them online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think as soon as the materials became available and more and more of these organizations worked in partnership with educators to really start building some pedagogy and tools around using these materials as classroom tools, as exercises, as opportunities for students, that’s when everything started to change.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Primary sources can make people and events of the past feel more real and more textured for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can also help kids learn to think critically about the information they’re consuming. That’s increasingly necessary as young people navigate a digital world filled with misinformation and disinformation from both humans and artificial intelligence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lee Ann Potter:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The fact that you can go to the source where the information originated and get the context of the source and the rest of the story – if you can get kids interested and excited about that, then what we’re going to do is, is train a generation of young people to constantly question where information is coming from and constantly wonder, what is the original source for this bit of information that someone is trying to convey to me? And I think that is absolutely what primary sources can do for young people. And and goodness knows we need more of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of MindShift, we’re going to hear how primary sources can bring history to life and deepen students’ understanding of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll do that by visiting two schools in Virginia where students are learning about the Civil Rights Movement. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What happened after the Civil war?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Reconstruction!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To dig into the power of learning with primary sources, we’re visiting a fourth grade classroom in Rockingham County, Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what are the words we’re gonna talk about today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation, and pre-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Amendment, segregation and prejudice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prejudice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those are the vocab words that students are learning in Miranda Lyle’s fourth grade class. The class is gathered on a beige rug at the front of the room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You think you know what segregation means? What do you think it means?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the start of a social studies unit about school desegregation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">White and Black people were separated from each other based on race, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next, Miranda projects a black and white photo of a group of teenagers onto the smart board.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re going to read this picture. I want you to observe and see as many things as you can before we even start today. What do you, what do you notice? Why don’t you have a quiet thumb up. Keep looking at the screen. See if you can give me more than one idea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The photograph is from 1951. It shows about 40 African-American teenagers standing outside looking at the camera. The boys wear collared shirts and in some cases ties. The girls wear dresses or long skirts and blouses. Many also wear long coats. In the background there are two buildings and a sidewalk flanked by mud and puddles.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They look like they’re going to school. What makes you think they’re going to school?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Levi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they have, like, uniforms on. Well, like they have clothes that look school-y.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have clothes that look kind of professional, kind of ready for school, I like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These teenagers were students at R.R. Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was a segregated school in Farmville, Virginia – just over two hours southeast of where the fourth graders are sitting now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda’s students don’t know it yet, but the young people they’re looking at were some of the plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education – the Supreme Court case that found school segregation unconstitutional 70 years ago.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Abigail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Abigail: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like, like, in the background those are like schools. Like the schools that they were in, like those small buildings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like cabins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It looks like schools, smaller buildings, you notice they kind of look like cabins. What makes you think cabins when you look at that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like they’re made out of, like, wood and, like, it doesn’t really look like somewhere you’d want to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The buildings they’re discussing were temporary classrooms made with cheap tar paper siding. Some people in Farmville said they looked like chicken coops. County officials built them to deal with overcrowding at Moton High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school was constructed for about 200 students. But by the 1950s it held more than 450.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And that wasn’t the only challenge. The roofs of the buildings leaked. Students had to hold umbrellas over their heads on rainy days.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only heat was from a potbelly stove. Anyone who sat near it got too hot, and kids who sat far away shivered in their winter coats.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None of these problems existed at the nearby high school attended by white students. But despite lobbying by parents, the school board refused to build a new school for Black students.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To protest the disparities, a quiet 16-year-old named Barbara Johns led her classmates in a two-week\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> strike in 1951.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The students wrote to the NAACP for help\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and eventually sued the school board. Their case became one of five that made up Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda’s fourth grade class will learn about all of that during this social studies unit. For now, this photo of the R. R. Moton students is just a teaser. Today is all about understanding the historical context of the Jim Crow era.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re going to keep going because today we’re going to be looking at a lot of different pictures and a lot of different primary sources like this one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda clicks through slides that include background info and more black and white photos depicting segregated water fountains, buses and neighborhoods. The fourth graders point out details and ask questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As they study the photos, they’re getting a strong sense of what racial segregation looked like. And they are not happy about it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, so far, are you guys feeling like separate but equal …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is really a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is fair?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you feeling so far, Alex?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alex: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, I think that’s a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You think that separate but equal is a lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda says, these photographs help students empathize with people and events of the past.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Actually giving kids primary sources is one of the biggest signs of respect we can show the kids and the story. I think it tells us we trust them. We know they can do it. And it gives them the opportunity to not just sit back and listen, but to become detectives, to uncover the story that might be deeper than what we were going to present them to begin with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s one student, Lily, responding to a photo of a sign for a whites-only neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What makes me mad is that when the sign says ‘We want white people in our white community,’ it has American flags on it. And the Black people are a part of America. So why do the white people say they’re usually more a part of America than the Black people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re angry because those flags are for the United States, right? And you’re saying all races live in the United States. And at this point, remember, this is after that 15, 13, 14, the 15th amendment. So the Constitution says, yeah, these people are Americans, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Miranda and a team of teachers in Rockingham County designed this civil rights unit using inquiry-based teaching. That’s a method that encourages students to ask questions about the world and develop analytical thinking skills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lily’s observation about the flag is an example of how primary sources can drive inquiry.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was really impressed. I was I was kind of, like, sitting back there like, oh my goodness, that’s brilliance. And that’s because she had the, you know, like, had the opportunity to just stare at a picture and stare long enough to see the little details that otherwise could be missed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Learning with primary sources has some great benefits, but it also comes with challenges.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the big ones is that documents from the past may use language we wouldn’t use today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, some of the photos that Miranda’s students were looking at included signs referring to Black people as “colored.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is a sign that we’re going to see in a lot of different primary sources we look at. But remember, we talked last week about that Maya Angelou quote in, um, growth mindset that said, ‘know better and do better.’ Remember how we talked about how that’s something that was on those signs, but are we going to use that term? No, because we know better than that, so we’re going to do better than that. So using terms like African-American, even saying things like Black people or brown people, that’s allowed. But we want to stray away from using words that aren’t used anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with the upfront discussion about appropriate language, these are fourth graders. They’re still learning. And things can come up that require gentle correction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> … that the Blacks are not getting treated very nicely because they have like —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Black people – we want to make sure we have that ‘people’ word at the end there. The Black people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Mmhm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda tries to model the “know better, do better” idea herself, too. During their Civil War study, she had a slide that used the term “runaway slaves.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was talking with my class one day. I was like, I don’t like how that sounds, because, you know, and they’re like, ‘Well, yeah, runaway sounds like it’s a bad thing.’\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went online and looked for alternate terms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And one that I found that my kids have really attached to was freedom seekers, because we talked about how ‘runaway’ sounds like they’re doing something wrong and they’re not doing anything wrong. They’re trying to, you know, gives them just a different way of looking at the entire situation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not just language that can be hard in social studies. Topics like slavery and segregation reveal difficult truths about violence and injustice in American history. These topics have also become politicized in recent years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to the news outlet Education Week, 17 states have passed bills or other policies that limit teachers’ ability to discuss racism in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That includes here in Virginia, where the governor issued an executive order that bans so-called “divisive concepts,” such as critical race theory – which is an academic and legal framework.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proponents of such policies often say that talking about racial injustice will make white children feel guilty. Miranda’s school is predominantly white\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and that hasn’t been her experience.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I had a student put on a study guide, ‘Which side did Virginia support?’ It was like ‘Virginia,’ he outlined in a heart, and then ‘supported the Confederacy’ and then had a broken heart. So they’re able to see, like, it’s not ‘you’re the problem’ or ‘Virginia today is the problem.’ They’re able to kind of see these, yeah, that was a big mistake people made for a long time. That was actually really detrimental. Why? Because kids, I think even our age, when we were children would have had the same, ‘That’s not fair’ had it been presented as, look at these primary sources. Look at these actual pictures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Miranda also makes sure her students know that even though the R.R. Moton facilities were unequal, the students there were smart and had teachers who maintained high expectations for them. She doesn’t want her students to unconsciously equate bad conditions with people being downtrodden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just because they had more supplies or they had better buildings or things like that, does that mean that the students weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Does it mean that the teachers weren’t as good?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Whole class: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember we talked about at one of the schools we’re going to discuss, at R.R. Moton high school, one of the teachers would go on to work for NASA. Does that sound like somebody who’s going to be a good science teacher? Somebody who goes to NASA?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A good math teacher?\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. So we’re going to keep talking about these things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this introduction to segregation, the fourth graders will learn about Barbara Johns, the 16-year-old I mentioned earlier. She led her classmates in a fight for equal education that they took all the way to the Supreme Court.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That story is the beating heart\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of this unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the coolest things about Barbara Johns is that she was one, a student. She was not the same age as my own kids that I teach, but she was still a student who saw a problem in her school, which was in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Carrie Lillard. She’s another fourth grade teacher in Rockingham County. She was on the same team as Miranda that created this unit about Barbara Johns and her classmates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a nine and ten year old, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone their age or slightly older, or sometimes slightly younger, can change the world and with just one small decision. And that’s exactly what she did. So kids really grasp onto that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One way the fourth graders learn about Barbara Johns is from another primary source: her diary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One morning I was so busy rushing my brothers and sister down the hill to school that I forgot my own lunch and had to rush back up the hill to retrieve it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s one of Carrie’s students, Lily. She’s reading a diary entry that Barbara Johns wrote later in life recounting her time in high school. In it, Barbara recalls missing the school bus one morning and trying to hitch a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lily: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About an hour later, I was still waiting when the white school bus drives by half empty on its way to Farmville High School. It would have to pass by my school to get to that school, and I couldn’t ride with them. Right then and there, I decided, indeed, something had to be done about this inequality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s another student, Emery, recalling what Barbara did after the day she missed the bus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She went up to her music teacher and said, ‘Hey, I have a problem’. And the teacher and she told her the problem. And the music teacher said, ‘If you have a problem, why don’t you fix it?’ And she gathered all these people in the auditorium and said, ‘If you want to be with me, you can be with me.’ And then she led a strike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reading the diary entries helped Emery connect with Barbara Johns and the Brown v. Board case on a personal level.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I liked how it was, in particular, how it was a young girl. Normally when we, we learn about, like, older people. But no, we learned about a 16 year old. Still a teenager.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did that stand out to you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because usually to teenagers, like these days in 2024, do some dumb stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">laughs\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Barbara Johns wasn’t doing dumb stuff?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Emery: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, she was doing brilliant stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Rockingham County teachers told me that their former students still bring up Barbara Johns even when they leave fourth grade. Miranda says that’s different from when she covered this topic without primary sources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They knew her role. They knew her name. That was really it. And if they held onto it, what I could say about it now. I’m not even sure if they remember her story at all. Because it was more, they were passive in that process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of social studies isn’t just to memorize a list of names and dates. It’s also to help kids learn skills like analyzing information sources, using evidence to distinguish fact from opinion, and comparing and contrasting people, places and events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I heard examples of all of those skills as the fourth graders discussed photos and diary entries from Virginia’s history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Miranda Lyle: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re not just sitting back and being passive listeners to a story. They’re seeing the actual actions and the consequences of those actions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those critical thinking skills also help students wrestle with the complexity of the past. Like the fact that schools did not immediately integrate after Brown v. Board of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Virginia, local and state officials actively defied the court ruling. They even closed schools in several counties instead of integrating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took more protests\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and more court cases,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for schools to actually integrate in Virginia.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carrie says the fourth graders learn about all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carrie Lillard: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Approaching history from ‘we are we are a combination of all of the choices we make’ helps when we get to this point. I’m like, OK, so, you know, think about the same people who weren’t just automatically okay with the Civil War being over, they still harbor a lot of anger and resentment the same way, just because you’re forced to apologize to a friend doesn’t automatically fix it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For their final assignment, the fourth graders write a letter to Barbara Johns’ sister, Joan Johns Cobbs. She participated in the Moton student strike and is still alive today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dear Mrs. Johns Cobbs. We have been learning about your sister Barbara Johns’ legacy in my history class and the impacts she has made in our lives. She was brave by doing what is right because she felt like she had to do something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Leigha, now a fifth grader. She’s reading the letter she wrote a year earlier in Carrie’s class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leigha: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… I’m going to defend girls because she inspired me to say ‘no’ when boys say girls can’t run or play sports, but they can. Barbara Johns has inspired me to stand up for what I believe in. Thank you for making the USA what it is today. Thanks for everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about an entire social studies unit centered around primary sources. But teachers don’t have to overhaul the whole curriculum to get started teaching this way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Lee Ann Potter’s team at the Library of Congress recommends picking one primary source that complements the secondary sources schools are using.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Teachers can invite students to observe, reflect and ask questions about the primary source.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Congress’s website for teachers has a one-page worksheet to walk students through that observe-reflect-question cycle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The website also has curated sets of primary sources related to popular curriculum topics.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And lots of tips for how to use those resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">History is rich with stories. Primary sources can unlock those stories by humanizing the people who came before us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When young people form connections with the past, it helps them understand our world today and determine the future they want to create.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to Miranda Lyle, Carrie Lillard and all of their fourth grade students. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Levi, Abigail, Alex, Lily D., Lilly J., Emery and Leigha.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Lee Ann Potter at the Library of Congress and Beau Dickenson at Rockingham County Public Schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you want to learn more about Barbara Johns, you can visit the Robert Russa Moton Museum in Farmville, Virginia\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class",
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"headTitle": "How to Get Kids Thinking Instead of Mimicking in Math Class | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many math classes, students are ready to bolt as soon as the bell rings. Not in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/staci_durnin\">Staci Durnin\u003c/a>’s room. “A lot of times I hear kids say, ‘that was two periods of math already?’ And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy,” said Durnin, who teaches sixth grade math at Mineola Middle School in New York. “Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wasn’t always that way. After 29 years of teaching, Durnin last year adopted a new instructional approach called “thinking classrooms.” The model was developed by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfu.ca/education/faculty-profiles/pliljedahl.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Simon Fraser University professor\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and researcher \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/pgliljedahl\">Peter Liljedahl\u003c/a> and laid out in his book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/building-thinking-classrooms-268862\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Liljedahl said that his work is “a reaction to an observed and documented reality that the majority of students spend the majority of their time in math classrooms not thinking.” What are they doing instead? Mimicking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ascd.org/el/articles/you-do-we-do-i-do-a-strategy-for-productive-struggle\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I do, we do, you do”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> approach is a common teaching strategy in math classrooms. In it, a teacher demonstrates how to solve a certain type of problem, the class practices as a whole, and students practice independently. But Liljedahl said, “There’s nothing about that environment that prepares students for all of a sudden me saying, ‘Well, here, let me show you this property. Now figure out what this is,’ because all of their habits are around mimicking. And this is a problem because if students are not thinking, they’re not learning.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thinking classrooms model shakes up the norms of math class to create \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edutopia.org/article/independent-critical-thinking-math/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a different culture\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> around problem-solving. It draws on 15 years of Liljedahl’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275953429_Building_Thinking_Classrooms_Conditions_for_Problem_Solving\">research\u003c/a> about how teaching practices affect different outcomes, such as, how quickly students start a math task, their eagerness to try a problem, how much they persist in a task, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and other behaviors related to engagement\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The model involves students working in small, randomly chosen groups; solving problems standing up at whiteboards; building on small bits of knowledge as they go; and consolidating their discoveries as a class after working through problems. As teachers of all subjects have struggled to get students engaged in the years after pandemic shutdowns, many in math have turned to these routines as a solution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/staci_durnin/status/1793378687976636754\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Durnin, it’s been transformative. “I’ve always looked forward to going to work, but even more so now because I know that there’s so much going on,” she said. “It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Visibly random groups\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Education leaders often tout collaboration as a “21st century skill.” But in the daily reality of classrooms, group work doesn’t always go well. Liljedahl has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Liljedahl/publication/275953522_The_Affordances_of_Using_Visibly_Random_Groups_in_a_Mathematics_Classroom/links/554abf040cf29752ee7c332b/The-Affordances-of-Using-Visibly-Random-Groups-in-a-Mathematics-Classroom.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">studied how to improve it\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, starting with a basic question: How are groups formed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He describes two common approaches to creating student groups: teacher-assigned groups or student-selected groups. Teachers might prefer to choose groups based on academic or social goals, while students often like getting to work with their friends. It turns out, however, that neither approach is great for math engagement. Liljedahl found through interviews and surveys that regardless of who picks the groups, students go into their groups expecting to play a passive role. What works better for engagement are random groups, which break students’ expectations for how the group will act.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64546\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64546\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth graders convert fractions and decimals into percents with support from teacher Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a catch – students have to witness the groups being randomly assigned. They’ve had too many years of experience trying to decipher the logic behind teacher-assigned groups. They need to see the random assignment to believe it. Liljedahl calls this approach “visibly random grouping.” He suggests creating visibly random groups by having students pull from a deck of playing cards, but teachers who follow this approach have created their own methods, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Melissa, Texas, ninth–grade math teacher Amber McMellan chose UNO cards to serve the purpose. She fans out the cards, and students pick one as they enter her room. Desks are clustered in threes with a jumbo UNO card at each to signal where each group will sit. McMellan said that the first year she tried visibly random groups, she wasn’t consistent with it, and students pushed back. The second year, she made it a daily routine, and students got on board. “Now my kids don’t even think twice about getting a card from me on the way into my classroom,” she said. “If I’m not standing over by the entryway with the cards out, they’ll walk up to me and just stand waiting for me to put the cards out. It’s pretty awesome.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s classroom in New York, students pick groups via popsicle sticks with names written on them. According to Jena, one of Durnin’s students, at first it was disappointing not getting to team up with friends every day. “But now we know it’s a lot more helpful to be with other people,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Asked why it’s more helpful, Jena’s peers chimed in:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Becoming friends with other people,” said Suraj.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Probably you can communicate with others better,” said Sami.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Different ways to help you learn,” said Roel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Maybe some people are better at the skill than you, so they can help you find strategies,” added Isabella.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Across more than a dozen of Durnin’s students in two different periods, a chorus emerged: The sixth graders liked working in random groups because they liked \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">learning about each other\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and helping each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s no surprise to Liljedahl. “In thinking classrooms one of the things that we started to see emerge very naturally was empathy appearing among students,” he said. “What we noticed was that real collaboration doesn’t actually begin until students care as much about their partners’ learning as their own learning. And when empathy is unlocked, so many things work better in a classroom.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Vertical whiteboards\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the thinking classrooms model, when students work in small groups, they don’t write in notebooks or on worksheets. Instead, they tackle math tasks on whiteboards or other \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ri1vNQBk6I\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vertical learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> surfaces. This means they’re \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">up out of their seats\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – another thing kids tend to like – and that their work is visible to each other and their teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64545\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64545 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"2048\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-800x640.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1020x816.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-160x128.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-768x615.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1536x1229.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-2048x1639.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1920x1536.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students from two small groups discuss their problem solving strategies during math class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This also makes it easier to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60104/how-to-structure-academic-math-conversations-to-support-english-learners\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">differentiate instruction\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. McMellan, the Texas teacher, said that while students are at the whiteboards, she moves around the room, listening to how students explain their problem-solving strategies and watching for students who are hanging back from their group. “That right there tells me that they’re not confident in what the group is doing,” she said. “So I’ll try to get in there and ask questions, and try to get them involved a little more like, you know, hey, why don’t you write while (the others are) talking?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When groups are already connecting and collaborating, it’s powerful. “They get excited when they figure stuff out, and they literally celebrate,” McMellan said. “I’m more energized as a teacher because they’re energized.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Thin slicing\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last March, Durnin started class with a quick launch question: “You have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students scribbled individually on their erasable table tops. After a few minutes discussing the solution as a whole class, they split into their random groups.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was their first time working with percentages in math class, but there was no big lecture at the start. Liljedahl recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. In his research, he found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly. When students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64542\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"325\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1020x1326.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-160x208.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-768x998.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1181x1536.jpg 1181w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1575x2048.jpg 1575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1920x2496.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-scaled.jpg 1969w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth grader Tyler converts fractions and decimals into percents at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s class, each group copied a table with three columns onto the whiteboard. They needed to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa. Some rows in the chart were already filled out, giving them examples. They worked row-by-row, with one student using the marker to write their peers’ ideas before switching roles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The task was what Liljedahl calls a “thin slicing” task. Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time. Students start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students \u003ca href=\"https://www.hmhco.com/blog/just-in-time-vs-just-in-case-scaffolding-how-to-foster-productive-perseverance\">build their knowledge as they go\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Using the rows that were already completed as guides, students noticed patterns – like how changing a fraction’s denominator can help with conversions. “Now I understand that any number – if you turn the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent,” said Jena as her group finished their chart. “Because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Consolidation\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61581/how-a-debate-over-the-science-of-math-could-reignite-the-math-wars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">math wars\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> possibly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61712/do-math-drills-help-children-learn\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">making a resurgence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, some educators who favor explicit instruction have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://educationhq.com/news/dont-buy-into-building-thinking-classrooms-in-maths-its-a-fad-school-leader-166705/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">criticized\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the thinking classrooms model as new packaging on old ideas of inquiry-based learning. But while the practices may \u003ca href=\"https://bhcommunitywatch.com/2022/11/01/thinking-classroom-or-sinking-classroom/\">not always be \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">implemented with fidelity\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, explicit instruction does play a role in a thinking classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64544 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Math teacher Staci Durnin discusses one group’s problem solving strategies during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Durnin and her co-teacher — Heather Hazen, a special education teacher — visited the groups. They asked questions and gave students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the whole class gathered together for what’s called “consolidation.” This is when Durnin helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding. Durnin picked one group’s board to use as a model and highlighted the things they got right and mistakes that everyone could learn from. Instead of front loading concepts and vocabulary, she used this conversation to connect the key ideas to what students had discovered themselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64543\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One group’s board work after being marked up by teacher Staci Durnin during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liljedahl said consolidation matters because “meaning making is messy,” but “meaning made can be really neat.” In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized. Consolidation helps students organize and formalize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After consolidation, or for homework, students do something called “check your understanding” – individual practice with options to choose between difficulty levels of “mild,” “medium” or “spicy.” Liljedahl’s book also includes recommendations for how to approach assessments and grading in a thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resetting the culture\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Liljedahl’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms routines by starting with the regular curriculum, students resisted. Even if students don’t like math class, they have certain expectations for it. Liljedahl found that it helps to learn the new norms through what he calls non-curricular highly engaging tasks. These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63556/high-school-math-can-be-playful-too\">playful energy\u003c/a> to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students,” Liljedahl said. He recommends that teachers spend three to five lessons on non-curricular highly engaging tasks at the start of the year to prime students’ brains for active learning. Durnin said she also found them useful coming back from holiday breaks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/staci_durnin/status/1785740630758510593\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s a great way to enculture [students] into a new way of being,” Liljedahl said. “They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to engage in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside — a safe space where students can be different and become different.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the usual culture of math class, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where hierarchy is pervasive\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, it’s common to hear kids say they’re “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54389/3-ways-to-shape-math-into-a-positive-experience\">not a math person\u003c/a>.” But seven months into their thinking classrooms experience, Durnin’s students had no problem identifying their strengths in math. Here’s what a few of them said:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m good at factor puzzles and proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those.” – Alexis\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think I’m good at math ’cause I can teach people like this certain strategy, or if they’re having trouble with the question. But sometimes I do struggle, like everybody else.” – Thayla\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I just love problem solving. If I really want to do something, I’ll just focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on.” – Chloe\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the school year wrapped up in June, Durnin said that her classes showed a deeper understanding of sixth grade math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Durnin also said it took a lot of work to for her to adapt her lesson plans but that the change in student engagement was worth it. Along the way, she sought help from a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/buildingthinkingclassrooms\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facebook group\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> where educators ask questions and share stories about thinking classroom practices every day. The group has over 66,000 members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I don’t think this is one of those teacher trends or a fad,” said McMellan, the Texas teacher. “It’s just good practices. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to find.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8519622712\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: What does percent mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would be an understatement to say that teachers have a lot on their plates right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> From book bans to chronic absenteeism to phone distractions, the list of challenges is long. And a lot of teachers are feeling the burnout.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Which is why I was surprised when I started hearing a different refrain from math teachers. They were telling me that they’re more excited to go to work than ever – because their students are more excited than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amber McMellan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s really powerful to, to, to be able to walk around and, and just hear the conversations that the students have. It’s it it’s like food for the teacher heart, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These teachers are talking about a new approach to math called “thinking classrooms.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this model, students work standing up at whiteboards in different small groups every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s centered around a core idea: getting kids to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> instead of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mimic\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What teaching math so often has become is let me show you how to do it, and then you do it. Right. It’s sort of this ‘I do, we do, you do.’ And you’re going to learn to mimic these sorts of routines and practices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Liljedahl, the researcher who created the thinking classrooms model. Peter says that problem solving is “what we do when we don’t know what to do.” And we don’t usually let kids hang out in that space.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been an agenda around teaching math through problem solving and teaching problem solving for 35 years now. But in order to do that, to really embrace that, to, if we really want to have students learning through problem solving, then they have to get stuck, and they have to think, and they have to get unstuck. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, was published in 2020. It couldn’t have come at a better time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Getting kids excited about math has never been easy. And COVID didn’t help. Even now, a few years after distance learning, teachers of all subjects are struggling to get students engaged.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So what makes thinking classrooms different? In this episode, we’ll visit a Long Island school where you’ll hear some of the key practices in action. And we’ll examine how these practices get kids thinking instead of mimicking in math. That’s all after the break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK. If you could take out a marker.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Staci Durnin’s grade six math classroom at Mineola Middle School in New York. Today students are learning about percentages. They start with a question that puts percentages in a familiar context.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so you have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know? Can you show the work on your tabletop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci and her co-teacher read \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">over the summer. They decided to try out the practices from the book in the new school year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, half of 100 is 50, making 75% more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did you choose to use this percent?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, because, for your phone, the max percent is 100%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So half of 100% is 50%? And clearly, this is greater than this. Good. Anybody want to explain it differently? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This opening problem only takes a few minutes. There’s no big lecture. Instead, students are going to try working with percentages right away. In his research, Peter Liljedahl has found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s very hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. Then students work on math problems standing up at whiteboards, in groups of 3. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. So we’re going to hear our groups right now. Go find your board space and get working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Staci Durnin’s classroom, groups are selected using popsicle sticks with students’ names written on them. A student draws the names.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jack. Vanessa. Nick. … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luke, Aleena and Akira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This way of picking groups is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">visibly random groups\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It’s one of the key practices of thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kara, let’s break that phrase down. Random groups means that students don’t pick their best friends to work with. It also means teachers don’t group students based on perceived ability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Peter’s research, he found that when teachers pick the groups or allow students to choose who to work with, the majority of students go into the groups expecting to play a certain role. And that role is usually passive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when groups are randomly assigned and change every day, students don’t get locked into roles. Different perspectives get shared, and more students offer their ideas for problem solving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for the “visibly” part of visibly random groups – that means that students actually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">see\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the groups being selected. It turns out that unless it happens in front of them, students don’t believe the groups are truly random.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, everyone hear their groups? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got the marker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get some calculators. One marker per group. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In their groups, the students copy a chart with 3 columns onto the whiteboards. They’re working to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, first, it’s 30 over 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 30.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because it’s a percent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you do — \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three over —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Equals, there should be —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three tenths?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Remember, this is the first time these students are seeing percentages in math class. The way they’re learning is what Peter Liljedahl calls “thin slicing.” Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So they start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students build their knowledge as they go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Here’s one student, Roel, explaining how his group converted a fraction into a percentage.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s 6/8, right? That’s six quarters out of eight quarters. That means it’s actually like at 100%, but it’s just a different type of fraction which can get you there. And if you do six divided by eight, which it will get, it will get, it will give you 75%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You can hear that he’s starting to make sense of the different types of conversions, even if he doesn’t have all the vocabulary nailed down yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now this is your basic ratio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thin slicing allows students to notice patterns and make meaning from math instead of memorizing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by working in small groups, students can easily share what they’re noticing to help each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I spoke with Jena – who was in the same group as Roel – she felt she had a good grasp on the lesson.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you learned anything about percents before today? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well yeah —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I got a gist, but now I really understand it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you understand now that you didn’t before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, now I understand that, like any number, if you turn the, uh, the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why does that help? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it, because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students are encouraged to share ideas between groups. That’s easy to do because their work is visible on the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing the whiteboards also helps the teacher. Peter Liljedahl points out that when students are working in notebooks at their desks, it’s pretty hard to see their thinking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if all of a sudden all the groups are vertical working on whiteboards, me as a teacher, standing in the middle of the room, I can see exactly where I need to be. And so it’s easier for me to differentiate now, because I can see that that group needs an extension, and that group needs a hint, and that those two groups actually just need to talk to each other, because one group has the knowledge and the other group needs it. And so differentiation becomes easier because everything is made visible.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, just because students are immersed in problem solving in a thinking classroom, it doesn’t mean there’s no teacher talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Staci Durnin and her co-teacher visit the groups. They ask questions and give students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what was that divisible by?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, after board work, the whole class gathers together for what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why is this an easy way to get to a hundred? I like your thinking. Go ahead, finish it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is when Staci helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci picks one group’s board to use as a model – for both the things they got right and mistakes that everyone can learn from.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So let’s talk about some patterns that you noticed here. Let’s look at this board work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wants to start? Tell me about these two fractions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re multiplied by ten so they’re equivalent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When I asked Peter Liljedahl why consolidation matters, he said that meaning making is messy, but meaning made is neat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> helps students organize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, you want to see a common mistake? If this wasn’t here, and this was the fraction 5/20, I often see this: oh, it’s 5%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Percent has “cent” in and cent means 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ooh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After consolidation, and for homework, students do something called Check Your Understanding, or CYUs. Instead of everyone doing the same worksheet, students choose between easy, medium and extreme challenges. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s another way to differentiate their learning. And it develops student agency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All of these things we heard – students standing up at whiteboards, visibly random groups, thin slicing and consolidation – they’re totally different from how Staci Durnin used to teach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I taught this lesson two years ago, it would have been me up at the front of the room, showing the kids how to set up the proportion. How do you change this fraction into a percent? Let’s get the denominator into 100. Now, with the thin slicing, they’ve discovered all of that, right? They discovered that ‘Oh the denominator has to be 100 because percent is out of 100.’ And ‘Oh this fraction is equivalent to this. So this must also equal the same percent.’ So it’s getting them to discover, then you consolidate and talk about the important pieces to the lesson. And then they practice on their own.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not only has Staci’s teaching method changed, but the way her students are showing up has changed. In most math classes I remember taking, my classmates and I were just … silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Crickets sound effect\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the engagement comes from being up out of their seats. Movement can help generate problem-solving ideas and improve memory consolidation. And kids just like it more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your favorite thing about this class? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stand up activities you get to do every single day. Because I don’t like classrooms where all we do is sit down and look up at the board. I like classrooms where we’re involved in something and we get to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staci’s students also told me they really like working in small groups at the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it helps me more, actually, because there’s other people who might explain it better for me and I can understand it better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hafsa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also you’re working with different people, so then they might have different methods that you didn’t already learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Working in small, random groups feeds students’ social needs, which we know is really important for the adolescent brain. But Kara, in season eight, we talked about the needs of introverted students. How does the thinking classrooms model work for them? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I talked to one student who said the noise at the whiteboards can be a lot. And depending on who’s in her group, sometimes she feels less comfortable sharing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lucia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I don’t like working up at the boards because, like, it shows everybody what you’re doing. But like, you sometimes want to keep in your own answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of her classmates had a different take, though. She said that asking a question in front of the whole class can be scary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I like small groups because at the boards, because it’s not like, as, not really embarrassing, but kind of, like when you get something wrong and like, your other partners can help you.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Small, random groups can lower the social risk for making mistakes. That’s something that Staci’s co-teacher, Heather Hazen, noticed, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So actually, when we started this the first few weeks of school, I said to Staci, like, this is so weird, but the kids are doing better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather is a special education teacher. She’s in the classroom with Staci to help out with students who need extra support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what I find for most of the kids – most, not all of them, but most of them – it gives them a chance to sit back and look, and in the small group, they ask questions to their peers more often than they would, I guess, in class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather also said the thinking classrooms model allows different mathematical strengths to be seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re asking how many squares you see in this larger grid of squares, sometimes our struggling students are the ones that are doing best with that task. Or they may notice the pattern differently, or see it differently, or come up with another method that somebody else wasn’t thinking about. So they have chances to shine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I visited Staci and Heather’s classroom in March. By then, students were very accustomed to random groups and working at the whiteboards. But learning those norms takes work at the start of the year. That’s done through what Peter Liljedahl calls \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">non-curricular highly engaging tasks.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a playful energy to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Peter’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms practices by starting with the regular curriculum…the students weren’t having it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, students come into the, into a math classroom already sort of believing what math is and who they are in relation to mathematics. And then they enact those, those, those beliefs in the way they engage with a new teacher and new content.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Highly engaging non-curricular tasks essentially jolt students out of their expectations for math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a great way to enculture them into a new way of being. They’ve re-constructed an identity for themselves. They have maybe re- rebuilt a relationship with mathematics. They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to, to engage in, in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside – a safe space where students can be different and become different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This investment ends up paying off for the rest of the year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When they’re not actively engaged in the learning in that way, everything is difficult. But when they are thinking anything is possible, like we’re tearing through Pythagoras in 55 minutes. Solving one- and two-step equations has never taken more than 45 minutes. Right. Factoring quadratics, which is a unit that can take anywhere from three to five days, we do it in 60 minutes.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Staci Durnin, the evidence that thinking classrooms works is not how quickly her students get through the math, but that her students don’t want to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times I hear kids say, that was two periods of math already? And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy. So I know, you know, in the past, the double period, even for me, it’s like I have another period of this, you know, this is tough. Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, I’ve never heard as many kids talking about the real substance of math as I did in just a few periods at Mineola Middle School. Not even when I was in the math club at my own middle school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s pretty remarkable. But you know what we DO hear a lot? Kids and grownups who say, “I’m not a math person.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The idea of people being inherently good or bad at math is often baked into the culture of school. But when I asked Staci’s students about their strengths in math, they answered easily.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m good at, like, factor puzzles and, like, proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Thayla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I’m good at math ’cause, like, I can teach people like this certain strategy, or like, if they’re having trouble with with the question. But sometimes I do struggle with, like everybody else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chloe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just, like, love problem solving. It’s just like if I really want to, like, do something, I’ll just like focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I checked in with Staci again as her school year wrapped up. She told me that her students this year showed a deeper understanding of grade six math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When math class focuses on getting students to think instead of mimic, their confidence and their problem solving skills grow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that adds up to is a very bright future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Big thanks to Staci Durnin and Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Roel, Jena, Nicole, Luke, Sami, Lucia, Alexis, Olivia, Hafsa, Thayla and Chloe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter Liljedahl’s book is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Amber McMellan and Julie Frizzell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña , Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many math classes, students are ready to bolt as soon as the bell rings. Not in \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/staci_durnin\">Staci Durnin\u003c/a>’s room. “A lot of times I hear kids say, ‘that was two periods of math already?’ And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy,” said Durnin, who teaches sixth grade math at Mineola Middle School in New York. “Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wasn’t always that way. After 29 years of teaching, Durnin last year adopted a new instructional approach called “thinking classrooms.” The model was developed by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfu.ca/education/faculty-profiles/pliljedahl.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Simon Fraser University professor\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and researcher \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/pgliljedahl\">Peter Liljedahl\u003c/a> and laid out in his book, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://us.corwin.com/books/building-thinking-classrooms-268862\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Liljedahl said that his work is “a reaction to an observed and documented reality that the majority of students spend the majority of their time in math classrooms not thinking.” What are they doing instead? Mimicking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ascd.org/el/articles/you-do-we-do-i-do-a-strategy-for-productive-struggle\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I do, we do, you do”\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> approach is a common teaching strategy in math classrooms. In it, a teacher demonstrates how to solve a certain type of problem, the class practices as a whole, and students practice independently. But Liljedahl said, “There’s nothing about that environment that prepares students for all of a sudden me saying, ‘Well, here, let me show you this property. Now figure out what this is,’ because all of their habits are around mimicking. And this is a problem because if students are not thinking, they’re not learning.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thinking classrooms model shakes up the norms of math class to create \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.edutopia.org/article/independent-critical-thinking-math/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a different culture\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> around problem-solving. It draws on 15 years of Liljedahl’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275953429_Building_Thinking_Classrooms_Conditions_for_Problem_Solving\">research\u003c/a> about how teaching practices affect different outcomes, such as, how quickly students start a math task, their eagerness to try a problem, how much they persist in a task, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and other behaviors related to engagement\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The model involves students working in small, randomly chosen groups; solving problems standing up at whiteboards; building on small bits of knowledge as they go; and consolidating their discoveries as a class after working through problems. As teachers of all subjects have struggled to get students engaged in the years after pandemic shutdowns, many in math have turned to these routines as a solution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Durnin, it’s been transformative. “I’ve always looked forward to going to work, but even more so now because I know that there’s so much going on,” she said. “It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Visibly random groups\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Education leaders often tout collaboration as a “21st century skill.” But in the daily reality of classrooms, group work doesn’t always go well. Liljedahl has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Liljedahl/publication/275953522_The_Affordances_of_Using_Visibly_Random_Groups_in_a_Mathematics_Classroom/links/554abf040cf29752ee7c332b/The-Affordances-of-Using-Visibly-Random-Groups-in-a-Mathematics-Classroom.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">studied how to improve it\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, starting with a basic question: How are groups formed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He describes two common approaches to creating student groups: teacher-assigned groups or student-selected groups. Teachers might prefer to choose groups based on academic or social goals, while students often like getting to work with their friends. It turns out, however, that neither approach is great for math engagement. Liljedahl found through interviews and surveys that regardless of who picks the groups, students go into their groups expecting to play a passive role. What works better for engagement are random groups, which break students’ expectations for how the group will act.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64546\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64546\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc5-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth graders convert fractions and decimals into percents with support from teacher Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a catch – students have to witness the groups being randomly assigned. They’ve had too many years of experience trying to decipher the logic behind teacher-assigned groups. They need to see the random assignment to believe it. Liljedahl calls this approach “visibly random grouping.” He suggests creating visibly random groups by having students pull from a deck of playing cards, but teachers who follow this approach have created their own methods, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Melissa, Texas, ninth–grade math teacher Amber McMellan chose UNO cards to serve the purpose. She fans out the cards, and students pick one as they enter her room. Desks are clustered in threes with a jumbo UNO card at each to signal where each group will sit. McMellan said that the first year she tried visibly random groups, she wasn’t consistent with it, and students pushed back. The second year, she made it a daily routine, and students got on board. “Now my kids don’t even think twice about getting a card from me on the way into my classroom,” she said. “If I’m not standing over by the entryway with the cards out, they’ll walk up to me and just stand waiting for me to put the cards out. It’s pretty awesome.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s classroom in New York, students pick groups via popsicle sticks with names written on them. According to Jena, one of Durnin’s students, at first it was disappointing not getting to team up with friends every day. “But now we know it’s a lot more helpful to be with other people,” she said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Asked why it’s more helpful, Jena’s peers chimed in:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Becoming friends with other people,” said Suraj.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Probably you can communicate with others better,” said Sami.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Different ways to help you learn,” said Roel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Maybe some people are better at the skill than you, so they can help you find strategies,” added Isabella.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Across more than a dozen of Durnin’s students in two different periods, a chorus emerged: The sixth graders liked working in random groups because they liked \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">learning about each other\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and helping each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s no surprise to Liljedahl. “In thinking classrooms one of the things that we started to see emerge very naturally was empathy appearing among students,” he said. “What we noticed was that real collaboration doesn’t actually begin until students care as much about their partners’ learning as their own learning. And when empathy is unlocked, so many things work better in a classroom.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Vertical whiteboards\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the thinking classrooms model, when students work in small groups, they don’t write in notebooks or on worksheets. Instead, they tackle math tasks on whiteboards or other \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ri1vNQBk6I\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vertical learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> surfaces. This means they’re \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">up out of their seats\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – another thing kids tend to like – and that their work is visible to each other and their teachers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64545\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64545 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"2048\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-800x640.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1020x816.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-160x128.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-768x615.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1536x1229.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-2048x1639.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc4-1920x1536.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students from two small groups discuss their problem solving strategies during math class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This also makes it easier to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60104/how-to-structure-academic-math-conversations-to-support-english-learners\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">differentiate instruction\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. McMellan, the Texas teacher, said that while students are at the whiteboards, she moves around the room, listening to how students explain their problem-solving strategies and watching for students who are hanging back from their group. “That right there tells me that they’re not confident in what the group is doing,” she said. “So I’ll try to get in there and ask questions, and try to get them involved a little more like, you know, hey, why don’t you write while (the others are) talking?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When groups are already connecting and collaborating, it’s powerful. “They get excited when they figure stuff out, and they literally celebrate,” McMellan said. “I’m more energized as a teacher because they’re energized.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Thin slicing\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last March, Durnin started class with a quick launch question: “You have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students scribbled individually on their erasable table tops. After a few minutes discussing the solution as a whole class, they split into their random groups.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was their first time working with percentages in math class, but there was no big lecture at the start. Liljedahl recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. In his research, he found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly. When students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64542\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"325\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-800x1040.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1020x1326.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-160x208.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-768x998.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1181x1536.jpg 1181w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1575x2048.jpg 1575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-1920x2496.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc1-scaled.jpg 1969w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sixth grader Tyler converts fractions and decimals into percents at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Durnin’s class, each group copied a table with three columns onto the whiteboard. They needed to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa. Some rows in the chart were already filled out, giving them examples. They worked row-by-row, with one student using the marker to write their peers’ ideas before switching roles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The task was what Liljedahl calls a “thin slicing” task. Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time. Students start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students \u003ca href=\"https://www.hmhco.com/blog/just-in-time-vs-just-in-case-scaffolding-how-to-foster-productive-perseverance\">build their knowledge as they go\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Using the rows that were already completed as guides, students noticed patterns – like how changing a fraction’s denominator can help with conversions. “Now I understand that any number – if you turn the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent,” said Jena as her group finished their chart. “Because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Consolidation\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61581/how-a-debate-over-the-science-of-math-could-reignite-the-math-wars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">math wars\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> possibly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61712/do-math-drills-help-children-learn\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">making a resurgence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, some educators who favor explicit instruction have \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://educationhq.com/news/dont-buy-into-building-thinking-classrooms-in-maths-its-a-fad-school-leader-166705/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">criticized\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the thinking classrooms model as new packaging on old ideas of inquiry-based learning. But while the practices may \u003ca href=\"https://bhcommunitywatch.com/2022/11/01/thinking-classroom-or-sinking-classroom/\">not always be \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">implemented with fidelity\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, explicit instruction does play a role in a thinking classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64544 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc3-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Math teacher Staci Durnin discusses one group’s problem solving strategies during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Durnin and her co-teacher — Heather Hazen, a special education teacher — visited the groups. They asked questions and gave students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the whole class gathered together for what’s called “consolidation.” This is when Durnin helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding. Durnin picked one group’s board to use as a model and highlighted the things they got right and mistakes that everyone could learn from. Instead of front loading concepts and vocabulary, she used this conversation to connect the key ideas to what students had discovered themselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64543\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 250px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-64543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-800x1067.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1020x1360.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-768x1024.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-1536x2048.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/btc2-scaled.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One group’s board work after being marked up by teacher Staci Durnin during the “consolidation” portion of class at Mineola Middle School in New York on March 25, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kara Newhouse/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liljedahl said consolidation matters because “meaning making is messy,” but “meaning made can be really neat.” In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized. Consolidation helps students organize and formalize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After consolidation, or for homework, students do something called “check your understanding” – individual practice with options to choose between difficulty levels of “mild,” “medium” or “spicy.” Liljedahl’s book also includes recommendations for how to approach assessments and grading in a thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Resetting the culture\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Liljedahl’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms routines by starting with the regular curriculum, students resisted. Even if students don’t like math class, they have certain expectations for it. Liljedahl found that it helps to learn the new norms through what he calls non-curricular highly engaging tasks. These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63556/high-school-math-can-be-playful-too\">playful energy\u003c/a> to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“What that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students,” Liljedahl said. He recommends that teachers spend three to five lessons on non-curricular highly engaging tasks at the start of the year to prime students’ brains for active learning. Durnin said she also found them useful coming back from holiday breaks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It’s a great way to enculture [students] into a new way of being,” Liljedahl said. “They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to engage in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside — a safe space where students can be different and become different.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the usual culture of math class, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62436/how-listening-to-students-stories-can-improve-math-class\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where hierarchy is pervasive\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, it’s common to hear kids say they’re “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54389/3-ways-to-shape-math-into-a-positive-experience\">not a math person\u003c/a>.” But seven months into their thinking classrooms experience, Durnin’s students had no problem identifying their strengths in math. Here’s what a few of them said:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m good at factor puzzles and proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those.” – Alexis\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I think I’m good at math ’cause I can teach people like this certain strategy, or if they’re having trouble with the question. But sometimes I do struggle, like everybody else.” – Thayla\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I just love problem solving. If I really want to do something, I’ll just focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on.” – Chloe\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the school year wrapped up in June, Durnin said that her classes showed a deeper understanding of sixth grade math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Durnin also said it took a lot of work to for her to adapt her lesson plans but that the change in student engagement was worth it. Along the way, she sought help from a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/groups/buildingthinkingclassrooms\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facebook group\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> where educators ask questions and share stories about thinking classroom practices every day. The group has over 66,000 members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I don’t think this is one of those teacher trends or a fad,” said McMellan, the Texas teacher. “It’s just good practices. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to find.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8519622712\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: What does percent mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would be an understatement to say that teachers have a lot on their plates right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> From book bans to chronic absenteeism to phone distractions, the list of challenges is long. And a lot of teachers are feeling the burnout.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Which is why I was surprised when I started hearing a different refrain from math teachers. They were telling me that they’re more excited to go to work than ever – because their students are more excited than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just a lot of up out of the seats talking, collaborating. The kids are walking around the room, they’re working and they’re having fun. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amber McMellan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s really powerful to, to, to be able to walk around and, and just hear the conversations that the students have. It’s it it’s like food for the teacher heart, you know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These teachers are talking about a new approach to math called “thinking classrooms.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this model, students work standing up at whiteboards in different small groups every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s centered around a core idea: getting kids to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> instead of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mimic\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What teaching math so often has become is let me show you how to do it, and then you do it. Right. It’s sort of this ‘I do, we do, you do.’ And you’re going to learn to mimic these sorts of routines and practices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Peter Liljedahl, the researcher who created the thinking classrooms model. Peter says that problem solving is “what we do when we don’t know what to do.” And we don’t usually let kids hang out in that space.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s been an agenda around teaching math through problem solving and teaching problem solving for 35 years now. But in order to do that, to really embrace that, to, if we really want to have students learning through problem solving, then they have to get stuck, and they have to think, and they have to get unstuck. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter’s book, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, was published in 2020. It couldn’t have come at a better time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Getting kids excited about math has never been easy. And COVID didn’t help. Even now, a few years after distance learning, teachers of all subjects are struggling to get students engaged.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So what makes thinking classrooms different? In this episode, we’ll visit a Long Island school where you’ll hear some of the key practices in action. And we’ll examine how these practices get kids thinking instead of mimicking in math. That’s all after the break. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK. If you could take out a marker.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Staci Durnin’s grade six math classroom at Mineola Middle School in New York. Today students are learning about percentages. They start with a question that puts percentages in a familiar context.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so you have 75% battery life on your phone or your iPad, and somebody else has one half of their battery life left. Who has more battery life? And how do you know? Can you show the work on your tabletop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci and her co-teacher read \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">over the summer. They decided to try out the practices from the book in the new school year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, half of 100 is 50, making 75% more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why did you choose to use this percent?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, because, for your phone, the max percent is 100%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So half of 100% is 50%? And clearly, this is greater than this. Good. Anybody want to explain it differently? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This opening problem only takes a few minutes. There’s no big lecture. Instead, students are going to try working with percentages right away. In his research, Peter Liljedahl has found that students do a lot more thinking when they get started on math problems quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when students start the lesson in a passive mode, it’s very hard to switch into a more active mental state.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter recommends that teachers only pre-teach a topic for three to five minutes, max. Then students work on math problems standing up at whiteboards, in groups of 3. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. So we’re going to hear our groups right now. Go find your board space and get working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Staci Durnin’s classroom, groups are selected using popsicle sticks with students’ names written on them. A student draws the names.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jack. Vanessa. Nick. … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luke, Aleena and Akira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This way of picking groups is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">visibly random groups\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It’s one of the key practices of thinking classrooms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kara, let’s break that phrase down. Random groups means that students don’t pick their best friends to work with. It also means teachers don’t group students based on perceived ability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Peter’s research, he found that when teachers pick the groups or allow students to choose who to work with, the majority of students go into the groups expecting to play a certain role. And that role is usually passive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when groups are randomly assigned and change every day, students don’t get locked into roles. Different perspectives get shared, and more students offer their ideas for problem solving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for the “visibly” part of visibly random groups – that means that students actually \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">see\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the groups being selected. It turns out that unless it happens in front of them, students don’t believe the groups are truly random.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, everyone hear their groups? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got the marker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get some calculators. One marker per group. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In their groups, the students copy a chart with 3 columns onto the whiteboards. They’re working to convert fractions and decimals into percentages, and vice versa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, first, it’s 30 over 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 30.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because it’s a percent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you do — \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three over —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Equals, there should be —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Three tenths?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicole:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, three tenths.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Remember, this is the first time these students are seeing percentages in math class. The way they’re learning is what Peter Liljedahl calls “thin slicing.” Thin slicing is when students move through a series of problems that get slightly harder each time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So they start with something they know how to do, and the next problem has a very small variation. Instead of getting all the information up front, students build their knowledge as they go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Here’s one student, Roel, explaining how his group converted a fraction into a percentage.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s 6/8, right? That’s six quarters out of eight quarters. That means it’s actually like at 100%, but it’s just a different type of fraction which can get you there. And if you do six divided by eight, which it will get, it will get, it will give you 75%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You can hear that he’s starting to make sense of the different types of conversions, even if he doesn’t have all the vocabulary nailed down yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now this is your basic ratio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thin slicing allows students to notice patterns and make meaning from math instead of memorizing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by working in small groups, students can easily share what they’re noticing to help each other learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I spoke with Jena – who was in the same group as Roel – she felt she had a good grasp on the lesson.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you learned anything about percents before today? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Roel: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well yeah —\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I got a gist, but now I really understand it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you understand now that you didn’t before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, now I understand that, like any number, if you turn the, uh, the denominator into 100, it’s easy to get a percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why does that help? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jena: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because it, because then it’s just the top number basically. It’s out of 100. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students are encouraged to share ideas between groups. That’s easy to do because their work is visible on the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing the whiteboards also helps the teacher. Peter Liljedahl points out that when students are working in notebooks at their desks, it’s pretty hard to see their thinking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if all of a sudden all the groups are vertical working on whiteboards, me as a teacher, standing in the middle of the room, I can see exactly where I need to be. And so it’s easier for me to differentiate now, because I can see that that group needs an extension, and that group needs a hint, and that those two groups actually just need to talk to each other, because one group has the knowledge and the other group needs it. And so differentiation becomes easier because everything is made visible.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, just because students are immersed in problem solving in a thinking classroom, it doesn’t mean there’s no teacher talk.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While students work at the boards, Staci Durnin and her co-teacher visit the groups. They ask questions and give students vocabulary or other information to extend their learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what was that divisible by?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, after board work, the whole class gathers together for what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why is this an easy way to get to a hundred? I like your thinking. Go ahead, finish it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is when Staci helps everyone bring together the pieces of what they discovered into a bigger picture understanding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staci picks one group’s board to use as a model – for both the things they got right and mistakes that everyone can learn from.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So let’s talk about some patterns that you noticed here. Let’s look at this board work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Who wants to start? Tell me about these two fractions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They’re multiplied by ten so they’re equivalent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When I asked Peter Liljedahl why consolidation matters, he said that meaning making is messy, but meaning made is neat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In other words, when students are at the whiteboards they’re in the thick of figuring out how math works. That’s really valuable. But it’s also disorganized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consolidation\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> helps students organize the chaos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, you want to see a common mistake? If this wasn’t here, and this was the fraction 5/20, I often see this: oh, it’s 5%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified student: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Percent has “cent” in and cent means 100.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ooh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After consolidation, and for homework, students do something called Check Your Understanding, or CYUs. Instead of everyone doing the same worksheet, students choose between easy, medium and extreme challenges. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s another way to differentiate their learning. And it develops student agency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All of these things we heard – students standing up at whiteboards, visibly random groups, thin slicing and consolidation – they’re totally different from how Staci Durnin used to teach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I taught this lesson two years ago, it would have been me up at the front of the room, showing the kids how to set up the proportion. How do you change this fraction into a percent? Let’s get the denominator into 100. Now, with the thin slicing, they’ve discovered all of that, right? They discovered that ‘Oh the denominator has to be 100 because percent is out of 100.’ And ‘Oh this fraction is equivalent to this. So this must also equal the same percent.’ So it’s getting them to discover, then you consolidate and talk about the important pieces to the lesson. And then they practice on their own.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not only has Staci’s teaching method changed, but the way her students are showing up has changed. In most math classes I remember taking, my classmates and I were just … silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Crickets sound effect\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the engagement comes from being up out of their seats. Movement can help generate problem-solving ideas and improve memory consolidation. And kids just like it more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your favorite thing about this class? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The stand up activities you get to do every single day. Because I don’t like classrooms where all we do is sit down and look up at the board. I like classrooms where we’re involved in something and we get to do something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staci’s students also told me they really like working in small groups at the whiteboards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it helps me more, actually, because there’s other people who might explain it better for me and I can understand it better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hafsa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also you’re working with different people, so then they might have different methods that you didn’t already learn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Working in small, random groups feeds students’ social needs, which we know is really important for the adolescent brain. But Kara, in season eight, we talked about the needs of introverted students. How does the thinking classrooms model work for them? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I talked to one student who said the noise at the whiteboards can be a lot. And depending on who’s in her group, sometimes she feels less comfortable sharing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lucia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I don’t like working up at the boards because, like, it shows everybody what you’re doing. But like, you sometimes want to keep in your own answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of her classmates had a different take, though. She said that asking a question in front of the whole class can be scary.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I like small groups because at the boards, because it’s not like, as, not really embarrassing, but kind of, like when you get something wrong and like, your other partners can help you.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Small, random groups can lower the social risk for making mistakes. That’s something that Staci’s co-teacher, Heather Hazen, noticed, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So actually, when we started this the first few weeks of school, I said to Staci, like, this is so weird, but the kids are doing better.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather is a special education teacher. She’s in the classroom with Staci to help out with students who need extra support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what I find for most of the kids – most, not all of them, but most of them – it gives them a chance to sit back and look, and in the small group, they ask questions to their peers more often than they would, I guess, in class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Heather also said the thinking classrooms model allows different mathematical strengths to be seen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heather Hazen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re asking how many squares you see in this larger grid of squares, sometimes our struggling students are the ones that are doing best with that task. Or they may notice the pattern differently, or see it differently, or come up with another method that somebody else wasn’t thinking about. So they have chances to shine.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I visited Staci and Heather’s classroom in March. By then, students were very accustomed to random groups and working at the whiteboards. But learning those norms takes work at the start of the year. That’s done through what Peter Liljedahl calls \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">non-curricular highly engaging tasks.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These are math problems and puzzles that are not linked to a learning objective. They can introduce a playful energy to the classroom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that does is it makes math fun, and it makes math feel achievable and enjoyable. And it can be very disarming for students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Peter’s research, when teachers tried to apply the thinking classrooms practices by starting with the regular curriculum…the students weren’t having it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, students come into the, into a math classroom already sort of believing what math is and who they are in relation to mathematics. And then they enact those, those, those beliefs in the way they engage with a new teacher and new content.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Highly engaging non-curricular tasks essentially jolt students out of their expectations for math class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a great way to enculture them into a new way of being. They’ve re-constructed an identity for themselves. They have maybe re- rebuilt a relationship with mathematics. They might perceive that mathematics is different. They might perceive that you as a teacher is different, and that this is a safe space to, to engage in, in thought and collaboration. So we’ve just created sort of an aside – a safe space where students can be different and become different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This investment ends up paying off for the rest of the year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Peter Liljedahl:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When they’re not actively engaged in the learning in that way, everything is difficult. But when they are thinking anything is possible, like we’re tearing through Pythagoras in 55 minutes. Solving one- and two-step equations has never taken more than 45 minutes. Right. Factoring quadratics, which is a unit that can take anywhere from three to five days, we do it in 60 minutes.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Staci Durnin, the evidence that thinking classrooms works is not how quickly her students get through the math, but that her students don’t want to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Staci Durnin: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times I hear kids say, that was two periods of math already? And you know, when I hear that, it just makes me so happy. So I know, you know, in the past, the double period, even for me, it’s like I have another period of this, you know, this is tough. Now I’m almost running out of time because, when the bell rings, they don’t want to leave the boards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nimah, I’ve never heard as many kids talking about the real substance of math as I did in just a few periods at Mineola Middle School. Not even when I was in the math club at my own middle school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s pretty remarkable. But you know what we DO hear a lot? Kids and grownups who say, “I’m not a math person.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The idea of people being inherently good or bad at math is often baked into the culture of school. But when I asked Staci’s students about their strengths in math, they answered easily.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m good at, like, factor puzzles and, like, proportions and dividing fractions because I feel like I worked on those the most. So I’m really confident with those. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Thayla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I’m good at math ’cause, like, I can teach people like this certain strategy, or like, if they’re having trouble with with the question. But sometimes I do struggle with, like everybody else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chloe: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just, like, love problem solving. It’s just like if I really want to, like, do something, I’ll just like focus my mind on only that and then block out everything else I’m working on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I checked in with Staci again as her school year wrapped up. She told me that her students this year showed a deeper understanding of grade six math than students did in her many years teaching with more traditional methods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When math class focuses on getting students to think instead of mimic, their confidence and their problem solving skills grow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what that adds up to is a very bright future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Big thanks to Staci Durnin and Heather Hazen at Mineola Middle School in New York. The students you heard in this episode were:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Roel, Jena, Nicole, Luke, Sami, Lucia, Alexis, Olivia, Hafsa, Thayla and Chloe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Peter Liljedahl’s book is called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks also to Amber McMellan and Julie Frizzell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Kara Newhouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The rest of the MindShift team includes Ki Sung, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña , Maha Sanad and Holly Kernan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kara Newhouse:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you love MindShift, and enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We really appreciate it. You can also read more or subscribe to our newsletter at K-Q-E-D-dot-org-slash-MindShift.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "5-ways-the-black-panthers-shaped-u-s-schools",
"title": "5 Ways the Black Panthers Shaped U.S. Schools",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Angela LeBlanc-Ernest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> first learned about the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in college in the 1980s, she realized there was a lot of history missing from the textbooks she used as a K12 student. A documentarian and historian, LeBlanc-Ernest went on to author chapters about women in the Black Panther Party in \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/book-chapters\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some 40 years later, she said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11944699/its-uplifting-all-of-us-oakland-high-school-students-experience-lessons-in-black-history-beyond-the-classroom\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">textbooks still\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> commonly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-often-misunderstood-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misrepresent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> or downplay the Panthers’ significance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Founded in 1966\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Oakland, California, the Black Panther Party was created to patrol African American neighborhoods and protect residents from police brutality. While it’s often remembered for its militancy, the party’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.britannica.com/topic/Black-Panther-Ten-Point-Program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ten-Point Program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> advocated for broader social reforms, including \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/black-panther-party-challenging-police-and-promoting-social-change\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">prison reform, voter registration drives and health clinics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Learning about the Ten-Point Program, especially point five, which demanded education that teaches people their true history, was eye-opening, said LeBlanc-Ernest. “I became curious about the Black Panther Party, which was a grassroots organization of young people primarily, who decided it was time to create a community based alternative to the poor educational experiences that they had.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Black Panthers’ innovative approaches to education and community support have had a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13940221/black-panthers-oakland-community-school-50th-anniversary\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting influence on U.S. schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Their initiatives included creating one of the first community schools, offering successful food programs, using \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51580/four-inquiry-qualities-at-the-heart-of-student-centered-teaching\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">student-centered learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63506/young-children-need-help-identifying-emotions-little-safe-place-boxes-give-them-tools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and promoting \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58898/retaining-and-sustaining-black-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diversity in education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Here are five ways the Black Panthers shaped the educational landscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>1. They are credited with creating a first-of-its-kind school\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From her hometown in Washington, D.C., to Lincoln, Pennsylvania, where she tutored young students and attended college, Ericka Huggins witnessed Black children’s struggles firsthand. “They couldn’t read by fifth grade, and it wasn’t their fault. We blame people for their poverty. We blame them for their lack of education,” she said. “I just wanted a better life for them.” Following this desire, Huggins and her husband drove across the country and joined the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in 1968. “I knew there had to be some way for me to connect with people who felt the same way,” Huggins said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School Childcare Program van. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the 1960s and 1970s, Black children faced harsher discipline, were discouraged from asking questions, and attended under-resourced schools. “It was \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">structural\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said Huggins. She described the public school system at that time as “old and broken.” In 1971, the Panthers opened the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ocsproject.wixsite.com/website/political-education-class-studies-a\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Samuel L. Napier Intercommunal Youth Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for party members’ children ages 5 to 12 in East Oakland, converting a church into a school by day and a community center by night. This initiative attracted other parents who wanted their children to attend, leading to the establishment of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/educate-to-liberate-oakland-community-school-led-to-success-by-black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School in 1973\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with Huggins as its director. It started with 50 students and focused on caring for the whole child beyond academics. They provided transportation, food and clothing for students and families in need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Oakland Community School is regarded as one of the nation’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.communityschoolsrevolution.org/we-are-ones-weve-been-waiting-oakland-s-full-service-community-school-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">first community schools – a model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in which public schools partner with community organizations to provide comprehensive support services alongside traditional academic instruction. Many of Oakland Community School’s practices formed the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/07/oaklands-pioneering-educational-model-has-black-panthers-to-thank/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">blueprint for community schools today\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>2. They established one of the most successful food programs\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many people are familiar with today’s free and reduced lunch options for students from low-income, but there was a time when free school meals were not common. “Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food,” Huggins said. This wasn’t due to parental neglect, she added. Many parents worked multiple jobs to make ends meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64478\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64478\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students eating in the school cafeteria, July 1981. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the most significant contributions of the Black Panther Party was its \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/news/free-school-breakfast-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950520/ruth-beckford-dance-black-panthers-free-breakfast-program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Launched in 1969\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, this program provided thousands of underprivileged children with free meals before school. When the Oakland Community School opened, it extended this support by feeding students and staff three meals a day at no additional cost to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the USDA had \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/factsheet\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">piloted free breakfast efforts starting in the mid-1960s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the program only gained traction in the early 1970s — right around the time the Black Panthers’ programs were dismantled. In 1975, the School Breakfast Program was permanently authorized. Today, it helps feed over 14.57 million children before school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>3. They used restorative practices and alternatives to discipline\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teachers at the Oakland Community School integrated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57002/how-mindfulness-during-class-can-help-students-and-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices into the school day\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/48371/the-role-of-yoga-in-healing-trauma\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">practiced yoga\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and were encouraged to do yoga poses if they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59777/want-more-meaningful-classroom-management-here-are-8-questions-teachers-can-ask-themselves\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misbehaved in class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “We didn’t believe in sitting anybody in a corner or in a dungeon or in a basement or \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58817/how-changing-schools-culture-of-discipline-paves-the-way-for-inclusivity\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ostracizing them from class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and making them sit alone,” Huggins said. “We believed that you just need to recalibrate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64475\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64475\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students stretching during physical education on the playground.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, a student might be asked to do a tree pose — standing on one leg with arms extended — if they were unfocused. Difficulty with the pose indicated a need for better concentration. “We reached a point where students would say, ‘I’m not feeling focused. Can I go get myself together and come back?’” Huggins recalled. After lunch, students of all ages \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55444/what-students-gain-by-teaching-their-peers-how-to-meditate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for 3 to 4 minutes. Huggins said that former students often remember these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/56849/look-inward-to-make-external-change-advice-from-a-meditation-teacher\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditation sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> fondly, even decades later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Educate to Liberate: A Black Panther Photographic Time Capsule Unveiled\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://www.youtube.com/embed/m9Bf_hv7Il4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen>\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>4. Their motto was “the world is a child’s classroom”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School did not use traditional grade levels. Instead, children worked in groups based on their \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52866/why-competency-based-education-is-exciting-and-where-it-may-stumble\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abilities in different subjects\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to LeBlanc-Ernest. The school operated on the belief that “the world is a child’s classroom,” focusing on teaching students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">how to think rather than what to think\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, she said. “They learned traditional academic information that was expanded and broadened because of the interests and the intentions of the staff.” Students engaged with the community through field trips to music performances and museum exhibits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64473\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64473\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ericka Huggins and Rosa Parks during Parks’ visit to Oakland Community School on May 2, 1980. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The curriculum went beyond \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51857/lies-my-teacher-told-me-and-how-american-history-can-be-used-as-a-weapon\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">U.S. History\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to include international topics. For example, students learned the capitals of every African country — a practice that was groundbreaking at the time. The curriculum emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57137/how-historically-responsive-literacy-can-make-learning-more-relevant-to-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">brilliance of students’ own cultures\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and others. “We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity,” said Huggins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>5. The students and teachers at their school celebrated diversity\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Huggins described those who worked at Oakland Community School as a “rainbow staff” that included teachers who left public schools to work at the so-called Panther School.LeBlanc-Ernest noted that the staff was diverse, with equal numbers of men and women. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Oakland Community School, late 1970s. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students came from various Bay Area cities, and while the majority were Black, the school also included White Asian, and Latino students. “We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black,” Huggins said. Many are surprised by this diversity, she noted. “I said, ‘Why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party’ and they have to think about what they’ve been told.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school closed in 1982 after operating for 10 years, around the same time the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/black-panther-party-huey-newton-race-and-ethnicity-d3cafbc0f7c0f83103f8a5ffaa66faff\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">officially dissolved in part due to government surveillance and attacks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The principles, mottos and schedule of this school could be replicated today if someone chose to take it on,” Huggins said. With \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cta.org/our-advocacy/issues/community-schools#:~:text=Community%20schools%20provide%20not%20only,this%20number%20continues%20to%20grow.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">thousands of community schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the United States, some may draw on the legacy of the Oakland Community School, even if indirectly, to address the needs of students and families. “It wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that,” said Huggins. “ The reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles, the faces of the staff and most importantly, the lives of the children.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2017, LeBlanc-Ernest started and directed \u003ca href=\"https://www.theocsproject.org/about\">The OCS Project \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where she preserves and shares the history of the school through recorded conversations with former party members and digital media. She has interviewed former students who have become teachers, changemakers, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11873838/how-some-elders-are-working-to-preserve-the-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party-in-oakland\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">culture bearers in the Bay Area\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and beyond. “[The Black Panthers] created a foundation for the students, for the parents, for the educators, who then took that with them into the different spaces that they moved into,” LeBlanc-Ernest said. “And I think that’s a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10868172/preserving-the-history-of-the-black-panthers-close-to-home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting legacy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5911938534\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. The 1960s was a decade of social and cultural change. There was the civil rights movement…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Martin Luther King, Jr. We will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Women’s liberation…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[May Craig question to John F. Kennedy (clip): …for equal rights for women, including equal pay…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Vietnam war…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[President Nixon Vietnam speech (clip): There were some who urged that I end the war at once… this would have been a popular and easy course to follow…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A moon landing \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Neil Armstrong (clip): …one giant leap for mankind]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It was a time when the very fabric of society was being questioned, and people were having big ideas about how people think and how people are taught. It was also when the black power movement was getting traction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Malcolm X (clip): We are oppressed. We are exploited. We are downtrodden. We are denied not only civil rights but even human rights]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The emphasis wasn’t on being free or access to white spaces, it was about empowerment and self-sufficiency even as widely accepted racist practices were trying to keep Black people down. It was during this era, in1966 that the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense started in Oakland. They believed in Black nationalism, socialism, and armed self-defense against police brutality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The first thing that drew me to the Black Panther Party that I always remember about it, it said the Black Panther Party for Self-defense and Self-defense, people get their hackles up about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Ericka Huggins. She joined the Black Panther Party in 1968. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> People think that self-defense is physical. It can be and needs to be when necessary. However, this was about supporting people who live poor and/or oppressed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We said you cannot continue to kill us. You can’t break down our doors to our homes and shoot at us. You cannot arrest us, wrongly incarcerate us and beat and murder us while we are incarcerated. You cannot deprive us of food, housing, clothing and peace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some of the more popular images of the Black Panthers are photos of armed men in berets looking out from behind these dark sunglasses. Or women – like Ericka – with afros waving flags and raising their fists. Even the United States FBI director, J. Edgar Hoover saw the Panther’s stance on protecting and empowering themselves as dangerous.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> J. Edgar Hoover said the Black Panther Party is the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The Black Panthers had a reputation as a militant group but they did way more than challenge the police and protest against racist policies.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you look up pictures of the Panthers– yes you’ll see guns and berets, but there are other images too. And the one that sticks with me is this photo of a Black Panther Party member putting down plates of food in front of young children. It’s a photo of their free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food. We knew because we were those children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had a founding charter which included a 10 point platform. I won’t go into all of the points but it basically said that our people – Black people– need to be able to eat, find work and feel safe. This episode we’ll talk about point 5, a focus on a fulfilling and effective education system \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Bobby Seale Speech at Oakland Auditorium (clip): We want decent education for our Black people in our community that teaches us the true nature of this decadent racist society and to teach Black people and our young Black brothers and sisters their place in this society because if they don’t know their place in society and in the world, they can’t relate to anything else].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Education was always important in the party. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Angela LeBlanc-Ernest is a documentarian and community archivist from Texas. She has studied and written books about the Panthers pursuit of education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Whether it be the study sessions they had reading the different books by revolutionaries – political education classes is what they would call them – that were required, or whether it was party members tutoring kids in the local community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She told me the idea to create a school came about when party members saw how their own kids were mistreated in mainstream schools \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> You had to start envisioning what society needed to look like for your child if they survived. Right? There is a sense so many of them didn’t think they would survive\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Party members started to conceive of a community-based alternative to the poor educational experiences they had as children. They were often disciplined harder and discouraged from asking questions. Their schools lacked supplies and books, and the curriculum rarely included stories of people who looked like them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So in response to this they opened the Intercommunal Youth Institute in east Oakland in 1971\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> It was an old church that they converted into a school and so it was a small space. They decided that they wanted to start with the number they had, which was 50 students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Gradually, other people noticed that the students and families were being treated well at this scrappy little home school where they used mindfulness practices and restorative justice. Students were engaged, respected, and learning in an environment that valued their heritage and experiences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> When the community approached the Black Panther Party, when it was just the insular home school to say, “Hey, can you make this available to the community, to children in the community?” That was a prompt for them to think more broadly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As new people joined from outside of the party, they began outgrowing the space and so they had to look for something more permanent. They changed the name to Oakland Community School and Black Panther Party member Ericka Huggins became the director. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We opened the Oakland Community School in the school year of 1973-74.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students were ages 5 -12, so it was basically an elementary school, but there were no grades. They were grouped according to their academic abilities. They also had childcare for kids who were younger than five.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students came from the Oakland area but some were coming from the greater bay area too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We had more than party members on staff. Not only did the people take their children out of public school, the public school teachers left, too, to work at… as it used to be, nicknamed the Panther School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This school is special for a lot of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that it was one of the earliest versions of community schools in the country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The school was community based, child centered, tuition free, parent friendly and we paid special attention to children whose families had trouble with clothing and food.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Nowadays when we talk about community schools, we’re talking about schools like this one, that provide for the whole child beyond academics. Often these schools have the things that families need located at or provided by the school. Oakland Community School provided groceries to families in the community and food throughout the school day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Three meals a day and I said it was tuition free. The meals were also for the students and staff of the school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If parents couldn’t afford the city bus. A bus from Oakland Community School would come pick their kids up. They used curriculum that actually reflected the students that were going to the school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Our motto was “the world is a child’s classroom.” Which is a little different than the United States is the center of the universe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We talked about the enslavement of Africans. We talked about the indigenous people. We talked about the resilience and brightness of our ancestors and our generations up to them and how beautiful and bright they are. We always affirmed the children. We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity. We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students at the so-called Panther school were Black –but they were also Latino they were white students they were Asian students and biracial students\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> When people see this, they’re shocked, like, oh, why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party and they have to think about what they’ve been told.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We were just brave and committed because it wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that it didn’t just appear itself as one community school with all angels floating around making things happen. No, it was hard work and. But the reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles. The faces of the staff. And most importantly, the lives of the children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> After about ten years of operation, The school closed in 1982 — This was around the time when The Black Panther Party officially dissolved after years of government surveillance and attacks. The free breakfast program is believed to have paved the way for expanding the government’s School Breakfast Program, which still exists today. And the Black Panther legacy is still in Oakland. For one thing, many members of the Black Panthers are alive today and physical sites across the city bear the Panthers’ name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now, if we fast forward 40 years, what are Oakland Schools doing with that legacy? We’ll get into that after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s jump ahead to present day Oakland. Angelica was enrolling in 10th grade at Oakland International High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She was 18 years old and so nervous. Originally from Guatemala, she didn’t speak a word of English. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana me inscribió en esta escuela porque ella estuvo en esta escuela y se graduó aquí y pues me sentí nerviosa porque pues no sabía nada del inglés, nada, no entendía nada, nada. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But her sister, who she was staying with at the time, was adamant about her going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tienes que estudiar. Tienes que aprender. Es te necesito que tú llegas a otro nivel más que yo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shortly after enrolling, circumstances for their family changed. All of the sudden, Angélica’s sister was providing for her kids,2 nephews, and Angelica. It was too much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana ya no podía con muchos gastos porque ella tiene hijos también y ella tuvo que tuvo que mantenerme a mí y a mis dos sobrinos. Pero luego ella me dijo tú ya estás grande y pues ya no sé qué voy a hacer contigo y así lo siento mucho. Y pues ella se mudó y yo me quedé sola\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her sister moved away and Angélica had to support herself, which meant she had to make a choice that so many students make: should she keep going to school or should she leave school to work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tuve que salir de la escuela, tuve que irme y no tenía otra opción más que como mantenerme a mi misma.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She decided to work. She didn’t feel like she had much of a choice. According to a report by the Urban Institute, nearly a third of students ages 16-19 are working and not in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to take a moment to zoom out on Angelica and talk about the school district she’s in. Oakland Unified School District. It’s credited with being the first full service community school district in the nation. That means in all of their public schools they don’t just going to focus on academics, they provide other services students and families might need like food and social services. Is this starting to sound familiar? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The superintendent Tony Smith who rolled out the plan for the community school district said that it has echoes of the Panthers and their deep care for kids. There are great examples of how Oakland Schools are drawing on the Panther legacy. And one of them is Oakland International School. The school that Angelica goes to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Oakland International High School is a public school in the Oakland Unified School District that serves all newly arrived immigrant students, all of whom are English language learners.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here is Lauren Markham, one of Oakland International’s founding members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Not all, but a lot of our students are coming from conditions of poverty. We have the highest poverty rate of any Oakland high school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walked through the school I could hear a bunch of different languages all at once. Spanish and Arabic are the ones you’ll hear most. It reminded me of the way Ericka Huggins from the Black Panther Party talked about the diversity of students and educators at the Oakland community school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We have students from about 20 different countries. I often describe our school as a delayed mirror of world events. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What she means by this is that if something happens in a country far away. For example, if there’s political turmoil in Central America and it leads to a lot of refugees or asylum seekers, Oakland international will have an influx of these students a year or so later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> More refugees arrived in the United States in the first eight months of 2023 than any year since 2017. Many schools across the country are trying to figure out how to accommodate an influx of migrant students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Newcomer students fail at wildly disproportionate rates throughout the country. And we know that when any one population is failing, it’s a function of the system and not the students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The community school model is what enables Oakland International to support their diverse student population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> School Is not just a place where like learning and education and academics happen, but that all of these services that are around the classroom, that that connect to and support students lives, be it mental health services or health care or immigration legal services, which are all things that I think we do particularly well and that are particularly vital at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I always use this example, but like if someone has an abscess tooth, they’re not going to be able to focus on math. Right? And if somebody has a pending deportation hearing coming up and they don’t have an immigration lawyer, like, yeah, they’re not working on their group project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Working with newcomers makes the community school model really necessary \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Because so many students are coming with limited not all, but a number of our students are coming, not necessarily entering like established communities or having like established social networks and therefore like don’t necessarily know where to go to get X, Y, Z thing, or the language that they speak isn’t represented at the social services office where they would apply for Medi-Cal or Cal Fresh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and nobody feels ashamed. I think sometimes there’s a stigma. Like, it’s free food, I don’t need to take that. But food scarcity is real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s Madenh Ali Hassan Oakland International’s Community School Manager, which means she oversees all the services the school offers in addition to academics. When I asked her what the school does really well. She said giving students and families food is their jam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan: \u003c/strong>It’s a little bit of creative chaos but if you come out and see it it’s always just kind of sweet because everyone’s just taking what they need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In order to offset skyrocketing food prices, the school offers two separate food banks once a week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Just like how The Panthers saw a need in their community and provided free meals to children and families. Today we see Madenh and Oakland International doing something similar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> We typically set up right in front of the school. And so this is open for the public. So when the community sees it, there’s a line around the block. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They also want to make sure they are serving their current students, so they have another food bank set up in the cafeteria. That one is just for their students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and filling their bags and students are doing the same in the cafeteria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students who have dropped out of Oakland International also come to the weekly Food Bank. It’s relatively common for a newcomer to turn 18 and leave school to work. Oftentimes, working is necessary to pay back the people who helped them migrate to the US or to help out their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We understand, like this is the reality of your life and you have to tend to that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lauren again, talking about students who drop out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I also think that it’s reflective of our school, sort of not. Like understanding that what’s happening now is not a student’s fate forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If a student needs help translating a document about a court hearing or filling out a paperwork. They know they will still be supported at Oakland International. Angélica felt that way too. When Angelica dropped out of school she got a job making sandwiches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though her circumstances made it so that she to work closing shifts. She knew she didn’t want to work in the same sandwich shop forever. So she had a conversation with her boss who let her work closing shifts so she could attend school again during the day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Entonces. Y mis maestros también se alegraron mucho porque yo había. Yo había ido cuatro meses y ellos me ayudaron también. Con todo. Todo. Animarme. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she returned to school she was welcomed with open arms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I found it really fascinating the way that staff and teachers at the school hold on to these two distinct realities. One being that students do better when they’re in school and the other is that some of them can’t make the decision to be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I went to Oakland International’s open house — it’s an event where they open up the campus to educators who are interested in seeing how they run things — I heard Lauren say something at the Open House assembly that I thought was profound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham at the Open House assembly: \u003c/strong>A lot of what we do here is like, okay, we see the perfect version. We can whine for a little bit about not having that, but how do we get how do we approximate? That’s what we do as educators. How do we get closer to that given the resources that we have? And that’s the sort of scrappiness that is built into education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As someone who reports on education and talks to a lot of teachers and worked in education, this felt true and this reminds me of the panthers too in a sense. Because schools are essentially a group of people that are committed to striving for a really hard to get ideal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students who went to Oakland International come back to work there as adults because they see the way the community school model helps them support students better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Yasser Alwan came to Oakland international as a student in 2010\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> We immigrated from Yemen, right before the conflict, the revolution, known as the Arab Spring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now he’s a Newcomer assistant. It’s a position that started at Oakland International, where they’ll have specific people who are in classrooms like paraprofessionals to help students who are struggling. When I asked him why he came back and why he stays he said yeah sometimes there are really hard days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> But I, I remember mostly the good ones. And for the most part it was mostly good days. And it’s just like that community is very strong and you’re like, very welcome in and like. I’m like, happier when I’m not around. And I think that’s what brings me back. Even through challenging times, I remember the good days. And I’m like, there’s going to be more good days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Karen Moya came to Oakland International as a student in 2010 also. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> We came from El Salvador.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As an adult she joined the staff as a case manager\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> I’m basically supporting students and their families to navigate the new systems in the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she is overwhelmed, She returns to something a colleague told her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> Something that one of my colleagues said it’s like you can do anything and … You might feel that you’re not doing anything because you’re not seeing the results, but you are actually doing something. You are impacting their lives, you know, and helping them navigate the, the, the systems and the struggles of being, you know, an immigrant in this country. So I take that with me. And, and I think about it sometimes too, when I’m like, I’m helping this student and I don’t see the results that I want to see on my way, but I’m doing everything that I can in my hands to better support them and their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Prior to this episode we did two other stories about community schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> I’m Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí and I’m the community engagement reporter at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So Carlos is someone who has been with me throughout my community school reporting at KQED. He was with me during interviews translating Spanish. We’re coming to the end of our community school reporting this season and I wanted to reflect what it was like to really sit in these stories \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Angelica was a little a little shy at first, a little nervous, which I, you know, completely normal reaction. The thing that stuck with me for just the whole day was just her, her, just like the like that she for her this whole, you know, like her leaving school and coming back. This decision. She really made it for herself. She understands the value of education. The things she was repeating again and again was like, I wanna learn English. When I first came to the U.S., you know, the first place that we came to was Oakland and I think that, when you’re in a school that sees a lot of kids come and go, you kind of feel like you’re, you know, you’re kind of like in the fight by yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I was talking to the community school coordinator and then also, one of the founders, and they were saying, like, it’s such a weird thing to do at a school where you like, see kids leaving, but you understand that, like, their realities are things that they have to deal with. And so you have to kind of let them go. But your job is just to be like when you’re ready to come back, like, come back here and like you’ll be okay. And it seems like they do a really good job of that versus like a school that would either be like, don’t leave and then like as soon as the student leaves, it’s kind of like, yeah, if I see you, i see you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Totally, yeah. And that’s why, I really loved being able to accompany you on these trips because it just shows many ways you can interpret the community model. Where it could be a thousand factors that could, you know, change the outcome.That goes to the point we’re making that there is no perfect quote unquote perfect community school. There’s no perfect way to establish or create a community school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you for talking to me Carlos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Thank you Nimah, this was awesome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> it’s really always a pleasure to work with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Likewise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Whether a school is based in Oakland pursuing the legacy of the Panther School or elsewhere, educators can relate to the desire for systems that serve young people better. In the meantime, they keep tracking down quick-fixes, proven strategies and those hard-to-find sustainable solutions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Ericka Huggins, Angela LeBlanc Ernest, Madenh Ali Hassan, Lauren Markham, Yassar Alwan, Karen Moya, and Angelica. Thank you to folks at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "The Black Panthers not only revolutionized civil rights but also reshaped American education by creating the blueprint for the community schools we know today.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Angela LeBlanc-Ernest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> first learned about the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in college in the 1980s, she realized there was a lot of history missing from the textbooks she used as a K12 student. A documentarian and historian, LeBlanc-Ernest went on to author chapters about women in the Black Panther Party in \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.angelaleblancernest.com/book-chapters\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two books\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some 40 years later, she said \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11944699/its-uplifting-all-of-us-oakland-high-school-students-experience-lessons-in-black-history-beyond-the-classroom\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">textbooks still\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> commonly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-often-misunderstood-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misrepresent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> or downplay the Panthers’ significance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Founded in 1966\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Oakland, California, the Black Panther Party was created to patrol African American neighborhoods and protect residents from police brutality. While it’s often remembered for its militancy, the party’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.britannica.com/topic/Black-Panther-Ten-Point-Program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ten-Point Program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> advocated for broader social reforms, including \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/black-panther-party-challenging-police-and-promoting-social-change\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">prison reform, voter registration drives and health clinics\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Learning about the Ten-Point Program, especially point five, which demanded education that teaches people their true history, was eye-opening, said LeBlanc-Ernest. “I became curious about the Black Panther Party, which was a grassroots organization of young people primarily, who decided it was time to create a community based alternative to the poor educational experiences that they had.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Black Panthers’ innovative approaches to education and community support have had a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13940221/black-panthers-oakland-community-school-50th-anniversary\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting influence on U.S. schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Their initiatives included creating one of the first community schools, offering successful food programs, using \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51580/four-inquiry-qualities-at-the-heart-of-student-centered-teaching\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">student-centered learning\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63506/young-children-need-help-identifying-emotions-little-safe-place-boxes-give-them-tools\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and promoting \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58898/retaining-and-sustaining-black-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">diversity in education\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Here are five ways the Black Panthers shaped the educational landscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>1. They are credited with creating a first-of-its-kind school\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From her hometown in Washington, D.C., to Lincoln, Pennsylvania, where she tutored young students and attended college, Ericka Huggins witnessed Black children’s struggles firsthand. “They couldn’t read by fifth grade, and it wasn’t their fault. We blame people for their poverty. We blame them for their lack of education,” she said. “I just wanted a better life for them.” Following this desire, Huggins and her husband drove across the country and joined the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense in 1968. “I knew there had to be some way for me to connect with people who felt the same way,” Huggins said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64474\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64474\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Childcare-Program-Van-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School Childcare Program van. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the 1960s and 1970s, Black children faced harsher discipline, were discouraged from asking questions, and attended under-resourced schools. “It was \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62934/bettina-love-examines-the-impact-of-education-policies-on-black-students-and-what-we-can-do-next\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">structural\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,” said Huggins. She described the public school system at that time as “old and broken.” In 1971, the Panthers opened the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://ocsproject.wixsite.com/website/political-education-class-studies-a\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Samuel L. Napier Intercommunal Youth Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for party members’ children ages 5 to 12 in East Oakland, converting a church into a school by day and a community center by night. This initiative attracted other parents who wanted their children to attend, leading to the establishment of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/educate-to-liberate-oakland-community-school-led-to-success-by-black-panthers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School in 1973\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, with Huggins as its director. It started with 50 students and focused on caring for the whole child beyond academics. They provided transportation, food and clothing for students and families in need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Oakland Community School is regarded as one of the nation’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.communityschoolsrevolution.org/we-are-ones-weve-been-waiting-oakland-s-full-service-community-school-district\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">first community schools – a model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in which public schools partner with community organizations to provide comprehensive support services alongside traditional academic instruction. Many of Oakland Community School’s practices formed the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/07/oaklands-pioneering-educational-model-has-black-panthers-to-thank/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">blueprint for community schools today\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>2. They established one of the most successful food programs\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many people are familiar with today’s free and reduced lunch options for students from low-income, but there was a time when free school meals were not common. “Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food,” Huggins said. This wasn’t due to parental neglect, she added. Many parents worked multiple jobs to make ends meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64478\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64478\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Students-Eating-in-OCS-Cafeteria-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students eating in the school cafeteria, July 1981. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of the most significant contributions of the Black Panther Party was its \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.history.com/news/free-school-breakfast-black-panther-party\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950520/ruth-beckford-dance-black-panthers-free-breakfast-program\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Launched in 1969\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, this program provided thousands of underprivileged children with free meals before school. When the Oakland Community School opened, it extended this support by feeding students and staff three meals a day at no additional cost to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the USDA had \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/factsheet\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">piloted free breakfast efforts starting in the mid-1960s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the program only gained traction in the early 1970s — right around the time the Black Panthers’ programs were dismantled. In 1975, the School Breakfast Program was permanently authorized. Today, it helps feed over 14.57 million children before school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>3. They used restorative practices and alternatives to discipline\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teachers at the Oakland Community School integrated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57002/how-mindfulness-during-class-can-help-students-and-teachers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">mindfulness practices into the school day\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/48371/the-role-of-yoga-in-healing-trauma\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">practiced yoga\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and were encouraged to do yoga poses if they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59777/want-more-meaningful-classroom-management-here-are-8-questions-teachers-can-ask-themselves\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">misbehaved in class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “We didn’t believe in sitting anybody in a corner or in a dungeon or in a basement or \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58817/how-changing-schools-culture-of-discipline-paves-the-way-for-inclusivity\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ostracizing them from class\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and making them sit alone,” Huggins said. “We believed that you just need to recalibrate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64475\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64475\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/OCS-Children-on-Playground-Stretching-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Oakland Community School students stretching during physical education on the playground.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For instance, a student might be asked to do a tree pose — standing on one leg with arms extended — if they were unfocused. Difficulty with the pose indicated a need for better concentration. “We reached a point where students would say, ‘I’m not feeling focused. Can I go get myself together and come back?’” Huggins recalled. After lunch, students of all ages \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/55444/what-students-gain-by-teaching-their-peers-how-to-meditate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for 3 to 4 minutes. Huggins said that former students often remember these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/56849/look-inward-to-make-external-change-advice-from-a-meditation-teacher\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">meditation sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> fondly, even decades later.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Educate to Liberate: A Black Panther Photographic Time Capsule Unveiled\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://www.youtube.com/embed/m9Bf_hv7Il4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen>\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>4. Their motto was “the world is a child’s classroom”\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland Community School did not use traditional grade levels. Instead, children worked in groups based on their \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52866/why-competency-based-education-is-exciting-and-where-it-may-stumble\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">abilities in different subjects\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to LeBlanc-Ernest. The school operated on the belief that “the world is a child’s classroom,” focusing on teaching students \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63681/how-do-you-counter-misinformation-critical-thinking-is-step-one\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">how to think rather than what to think\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, she said. “They learned traditional academic information that was expanded and broadened because of the interests and the intentions of the staff.” Students engaged with the community through field trips to music performances and museum exhibits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64473\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64473\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Ericka-Huggins-and-Rosa-Parks-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ericka Huggins and Rosa Parks during Parks’ visit to Oakland Community School on May 2, 1980. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The curriculum went beyond \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/51857/lies-my-teacher-told-me-and-how-american-history-can-be-used-as-a-weapon\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">U.S. History\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to include international topics. For example, students learned the capitals of every African country — a practice that was groundbreaking at the time. The curriculum emphasized the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57137/how-historically-responsive-literacy-can-make-learning-more-relevant-to-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">brilliance of students’ own cultures\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and others. “We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity,” said Huggins.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>5. The students and teachers at their school celebrated diversity\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Huggins described those who worked at Oakland Community School as a “rainbow staff” that included teachers who left public schools to work at the so-called Panther School.LeBlanc-Ernest noted that the staff was diverse, with equal numbers of men and women. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64477\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64477\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1697\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-800x530.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1020x676.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-768x509.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1536x1018.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-2048x1358.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/08/Outside-View-of-OCS-Building-Front-1920x1273.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Oakland Community School, late 1970s. \u003ccite>(Photo copyright Donald Cunningham/Photo and caption courtesy The OCS Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students came from various Bay Area cities, and while the majority were Black, the school also included White Asian, and Latino students. “We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black,” Huggins said. Many are surprised by this diversity, she noted. “I said, ‘Why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party’ and they have to think about what they’ve been told.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school closed in 1982 after operating for 10 years, around the same time the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/black-panther-party-huey-newton-race-and-ethnicity-d3cafbc0f7c0f83103f8a5ffaa66faff\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">officially dissolved in part due to government surveillance and attacks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The principles, mottos and schedule of this school could be replicated today if someone chose to take it on,” Huggins said. With \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cta.org/our-advocacy/issues/community-schools#:~:text=Community%20schools%20provide%20not%20only,this%20number%20continues%20to%20grow.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">thousands of community schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in the United States, some may draw on the legacy of the Oakland Community School, even if indirectly, to address the needs of students and families. “It wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that,” said Huggins. “ The reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles, the faces of the staff and most importantly, the lives of the children.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2017, LeBlanc-Ernest started and directed \u003ca href=\"https://www.theocsproject.org/about\">The OCS Project \u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">where she preserves and shares the history of the school through recorded conversations with former party members and digital media. She has interviewed former students who have become teachers, changemakers, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11873838/how-some-elders-are-working-to-preserve-the-legacy-of-the-black-panther-party-in-oakland\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">culture bearers in the Bay Area\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and beyond. “[The Black Panthers] created a foundation for the students, for the parents, for the educators, who then took that with them into the different spaces that they moved into,” LeBlanc-Ernest said. “And I think that’s a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10868172/preserving-the-history-of-the-black-panthers-close-to-home\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lasting legacy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5911938534\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. The 1960s was a decade of social and cultural change. There was the civil rights movement…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Martin Luther King, Jr. We will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Women’s liberation…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[May Craig question to John F. Kennedy (clip): …for equal rights for women, including equal pay…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Vietnam war…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[President Nixon Vietnam speech (clip): There were some who urged that I end the war at once… this would have been a popular and easy course to follow…]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A moon landing \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Neil Armstrong (clip): …one giant leap for mankind]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It was a time when the very fabric of society was being questioned, and people were having big ideas about how people think and how people are taught. It was also when the black power movement was getting traction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Malcolm X (clip): We are oppressed. We are exploited. We are downtrodden. We are denied not only civil rights but even human rights]. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The emphasis wasn’t on being free or access to white spaces, it was about empowerment and self-sufficiency even as widely accepted racist practices were trying to keep Black people down. It was during this era, in1966 that the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense started in Oakland. They believed in Black nationalism, socialism, and armed self-defense against police brutality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The first thing that drew me to the Black Panther Party that I always remember about it, it said the Black Panther Party for Self-defense and Self-defense, people get their hackles up about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Ericka Huggins. She joined the Black Panther Party in 1968. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> People think that self-defense is physical. It can be and needs to be when necessary. However, this was about supporting people who live poor and/or oppressed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We said you cannot continue to kill us. You can’t break down our doors to our homes and shoot at us. You cannot arrest us, wrongly incarcerate us and beat and murder us while we are incarcerated. You cannot deprive us of food, housing, clothing and peace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Some of the more popular images of the Black Panthers are photos of armed men in berets looking out from behind these dark sunglasses. Or women – like Ericka – with afros waving flags and raising their fists. Even the United States FBI director, J. Edgar Hoover saw the Panther’s stance on protecting and empowering themselves as dangerous.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> J. Edgar Hoover said the Black Panther Party is the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The Black Panthers had a reputation as a militant group but they did way more than challenge the police and protest against racist policies.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If you look up pictures of the Panthers– yes you’ll see guns and berets, but there are other images too. And the one that sticks with me is this photo of a Black Panther Party member putting down plates of food in front of young children. It’s a photo of their free breakfast program\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Children were expected to go to school and learn without any food. We knew because we were those children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had a founding charter which included a 10 point platform. I won’t go into all of the points but it basically said that our people – Black people– need to be able to eat, find work and feel safe. This episode we’ll talk about point 5, a focus on a fulfilling and effective education system \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Bobby Seale Speech at Oakland Auditorium (clip): We want decent education for our Black people in our community that teaches us the true nature of this decadent racist society and to teach Black people and our young Black brothers and sisters their place in this society because if they don’t know their place in society and in the world, they can’t relate to anything else].\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Education was always important in the party. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Angela LeBlanc-Ernest is a documentarian and community archivist from Texas. She has studied and written books about the Panthers pursuit of education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> Whether it be the study sessions they had reading the different books by revolutionaries – political education classes is what they would call them – that were required, or whether it was party members tutoring kids in the local community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She told me the idea to create a school came about when party members saw how their own kids were mistreated in mainstream schools \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> You had to start envisioning what society needed to look like for your child if they survived. Right? There is a sense so many of them didn’t think they would survive\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Party members started to conceive of a community-based alternative to the poor educational experiences they had as children. They were often disciplined harder and discouraged from asking questions. Their schools lacked supplies and books, and the curriculum rarely included stories of people who looked like them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So in response to this they opened the Intercommunal Youth Institute in east Oakland in 1971\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> It was an old church that they converted into a school and so it was a small space. They decided that they wanted to start with the number they had, which was 50 students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Gradually, other people noticed that the students and families were being treated well at this scrappy little home school where they used mindfulness practices and restorative justice. Students were engaged, respected, and learning in an environment that valued their heritage and experiences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angela LeBlanc-Ernest:\u003c/strong> When the community approached the Black Panther Party, when it was just the insular home school to say, “Hey, can you make this available to the community, to children in the community?” That was a prompt for them to think more broadly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As new people joined from outside of the party, they began outgrowing the space and so they had to look for something more permanent. They changed the name to Oakland Community School and Black Panther Party member Ericka Huggins became the director. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We opened the Oakland Community School in the school year of 1973-74.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students were ages 5 -12, so it was basically an elementary school, but there were no grades. They were grouped according to their academic abilities. They also had childcare for kids who were younger than five.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students came from the Oakland area but some were coming from the greater bay area too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We had more than party members on staff. Not only did the people take their children out of public school, the public school teachers left, too, to work at… as it used to be, nicknamed the Panther School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This school is special for a lot of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that it was one of the earliest versions of community schools in the country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> The school was community based, child centered, tuition free, parent friendly and we paid special attention to children whose families had trouble with clothing and food.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Nowadays when we talk about community schools, we’re talking about schools like this one, that provide for the whole child beyond academics. Often these schools have the things that families need located at or provided by the school. Oakland Community School provided groceries to families in the community and food throughout the school day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Three meals a day and I said it was tuition free. The meals were also for the students and staff of the school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If parents couldn’t afford the city bus. A bus from Oakland Community School would come pick their kids up. They used curriculum that actually reflected the students that were going to the school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> Our motto was “the world is a child’s classroom.” Which is a little different than the United States is the center of the universe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We talked about the enslavement of Africans. We talked about the indigenous people. We talked about the resilience and brightness of our ancestors and our generations up to them and how beautiful and bright they are. We always affirmed the children. We wanted them to know about history. We wanted them to know about themselves as people coming from great ancestry no matter their race or ethnicity. We didn’t ever turn away a student because they were not Black. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students at the so-called Panther school were Black –but they were also Latino they were white students they were Asian students and biracial students\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> When people see this, they’re shocked, like, oh, why are you shocked? We were the Black Panther Party and they have to think about what they’ve been told.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Huggins:\u003c/strong> We were just brave and committed because it wasn’t easy. I want everybody to understand that it didn’t just appear itself as one community school with all angels floating around making things happen. No, it was hard work and. But the reward was in the faces of those parents and grandparents and aunties and uncles. The faces of the staff. And most importantly, the lives of the children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> After about ten years of operation, The school closed in 1982 — This was around the time when The Black Panther Party officially dissolved after years of government surveillance and attacks. The free breakfast program is believed to have paved the way for expanding the government’s School Breakfast Program, which still exists today. And the Black Panther legacy is still in Oakland. For one thing, many members of the Black Panthers are alive today and physical sites across the city bear the Panthers’ name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now, if we fast forward 40 years, what are Oakland Schools doing with that legacy? We’ll get into that after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s jump ahead to present day Oakland. Angelica was enrolling in 10th grade at Oakland International High School.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She was 18 years old and so nervous. Originally from Guatemala, she didn’t speak a word of English. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana me inscribió en esta escuela porque ella estuvo en esta escuela y se graduó aquí y pues me sentí nerviosa porque pues no sabía nada del inglés, nada, no entendía nada, nada. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> But her sister, who she was staying with at the time, was adamant about her going to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tienes que estudiar. Tienes que aprender. Es te necesito que tú llegas a otro nivel más que yo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Shortly after enrolling, circumstances for their family changed. All of the sudden, Angélica’s sister was providing for her kids,2 nephews, and Angelica. It was too much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Mi hermana ya no podía con muchos gastos porque ella tiene hijos también y ella tuvo que tuvo que mantenerme a mí y a mis dos sobrinos. Pero luego ella me dijo tú ya estás grande y pues ya no sé qué voy a hacer contigo y así lo siento mucho. Y pues ella se mudó y yo me quedé sola\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her sister moved away and Angélica had to support herself, which meant she had to make a choice that so many students make: should she keep going to school or should she leave school to work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Tuve que salir de la escuela, tuve que irme y no tenía otra opción más que como mantenerme a mi misma.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She decided to work. She didn’t feel like she had much of a choice. According to a report by the Urban Institute, nearly a third of students ages 16-19 are working and not in school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I want to take a moment to zoom out on Angelica and talk about the school district she’s in. Oakland Unified School District. It’s credited with being the first full service community school district in the nation. That means in all of their public schools they don’t just going to focus on academics, they provide other services students and families might need like food and social services. Is this starting to sound familiar? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The superintendent Tony Smith who rolled out the plan for the community school district said that it has echoes of the Panthers and their deep care for kids. There are great examples of how Oakland Schools are drawing on the Panther legacy. And one of them is Oakland International School. The school that Angelica goes to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Oakland International High School is a public school in the Oakland Unified School District that serves all newly arrived immigrant students, all of whom are English language learners.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here is Lauren Markham, one of Oakland International’s founding members.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Not all, but a lot of our students are coming from conditions of poverty. We have the highest poverty rate of any Oakland high school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I walked through the school I could hear a bunch of different languages all at once. Spanish and Arabic are the ones you’ll hear most. It reminded me of the way Ericka Huggins from the Black Panther Party talked about the diversity of students and educators at the Oakland community school\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We have students from about 20 different countries. I often describe our school as a delayed mirror of world events. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What she means by this is that if something happens in a country far away. For example, if there’s political turmoil in Central America and it leads to a lot of refugees or asylum seekers, Oakland international will have an influx of these students a year or so later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> More refugees arrived in the United States in the first eight months of 2023 than any year since 2017. Many schools across the country are trying to figure out how to accommodate an influx of migrant students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Newcomer students fail at wildly disproportionate rates throughout the country. And we know that when any one population is failing, it’s a function of the system and not the students. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The community school model is what enables Oakland International to support their diverse student population.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> School Is not just a place where like learning and education and academics happen, but that all of these services that are around the classroom, that that connect to and support students lives, be it mental health services or health care or immigration legal services, which are all things that I think we do particularly well and that are particularly vital at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I always use this example, but like if someone has an abscess tooth, they’re not going to be able to focus on math. Right? And if somebody has a pending deportation hearing coming up and they don’t have an immigration lawyer, like, yeah, they’re not working on their group project.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Working with newcomers makes the community school model really necessary \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> Because so many students are coming with limited not all, but a number of our students are coming, not necessarily entering like established communities or having like established social networks and therefore like don’t necessarily know where to go to get X, Y, Z thing, or the language that they speak isn’t represented at the social services office where they would apply for Medi-Cal or Cal Fresh.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and nobody feels ashamed. I think sometimes there’s a stigma. Like, it’s free food, I don’t need to take that. But food scarcity is real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s Madenh Ali Hassan Oakland International’s Community School Manager, which means she oversees all the services the school offers in addition to academics. When I asked her what the school does really well. She said giving students and families food is their jam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan: \u003c/strong>It’s a little bit of creative chaos but if you come out and see it it’s always just kind of sweet because everyone’s just taking what they need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In order to offset skyrocketing food prices, the school offers two separate food banks once a week. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Just like how The Panthers saw a need in their community and provided free meals to children and families. Today we see Madenh and Oakland International doing something similar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> We typically set up right in front of the school. And so this is open for the public. So when the community sees it, there’s a line around the block. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They also want to make sure they are serving their current students, so they have another food bank set up in the cafeteria. That one is just for their students.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Madenh Ali Hassan:\u003c/strong> Everybody’s taking what they need and filling their bags and students are doing the same in the cafeteria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Students who have dropped out of Oakland International also come to the weekly Food Bank. It’s relatively common for a newcomer to turn 18 and leave school to work. Oftentimes, working is necessary to pay back the people who helped them migrate to the US or to help out their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> We understand, like this is the reality of your life and you have to tend to that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Lauren again, talking about students who drop out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham:\u003c/strong> I also think that it’s reflective of our school, sort of not. Like understanding that what’s happening now is not a student’s fate forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> If a student needs help translating a document about a court hearing or filling out a paperwork. They know they will still be supported at Oakland International. Angélica felt that way too. When Angelica dropped out of school she got a job making sandwiches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though her circumstances made it so that she to work closing shifts. She knew she didn’t want to work in the same sandwich shop forever. So she had a conversation with her boss who let her work closing shifts so she could attend school again during the day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Angélica:\u003c/strong> Entonces. Y mis maestros también se alegraron mucho porque yo había. Yo había ido cuatro meses y ellos me ayudaron también. Con todo. Todo. Animarme. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she returned to school she was welcomed with open arms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I found it really fascinating the way that staff and teachers at the school hold on to these two distinct realities. One being that students do better when they’re in school and the other is that some of them can’t make the decision to be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When I went to Oakland International’s open house — it’s an event where they open up the campus to educators who are interested in seeing how they run things — I heard Lauren say something at the Open House assembly that I thought was profound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lauren Markham at the Open House assembly: \u003c/strong>A lot of what we do here is like, okay, we see the perfect version. We can whine for a little bit about not having that, but how do we get how do we approximate? That’s what we do as educators. How do we get closer to that given the resources that we have? And that’s the sort of scrappiness that is built into education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As someone who reports on education and talks to a lot of teachers and worked in education, this felt true and this reminds me of the panthers too in a sense. Because schools are essentially a group of people that are committed to striving for a really hard to get ideal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Many of the students who went to Oakland International come back to work there as adults because they see the way the community school model helps them support students better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Yasser Alwan came to Oakland international as a student in 2010\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> We immigrated from Yemen, right before the conflict, the revolution, known as the Arab Spring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Now he’s a Newcomer assistant. It’s a position that started at Oakland International, where they’ll have specific people who are in classrooms like paraprofessionals to help students who are struggling. When I asked him why he came back and why he stays he said yeah sometimes there are really hard days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Yasser Alwan:\u003c/strong> But I, I remember mostly the good ones. And for the most part it was mostly good days. And it’s just like that community is very strong and you’re like, very welcome in and like. I’m like, happier when I’m not around. And I think that’s what brings me back. Even through challenging times, I remember the good days. And I’m like, there’s going to be more good days. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Karen Moya came to Oakland International as a student in 2010 also. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> We came from El Salvador.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> As an adult she joined the staff as a case manager\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> I’m basically supporting students and their families to navigate the new systems in the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When she is overwhelmed, She returns to something a colleague told her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Karen Moya:\u003c/strong> Something that one of my colleagues said it’s like you can do anything and … You might feel that you’re not doing anything because you’re not seeing the results, but you are actually doing something. You are impacting their lives, you know, and helping them navigate the, the, the systems and the struggles of being, you know, an immigrant in this country. So I take that with me. And, and I think about it sometimes too, when I’m like, I’m helping this student and I don’t see the results that I want to see on my way, but I’m doing everything that I can in my hands to better support them and their families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Prior to this episode we did two other stories about community schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> I’m Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí and I’m the community engagement reporter at KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So Carlos is someone who has been with me throughout my community school reporting at KQED. He was with me during interviews translating Spanish. We’re coming to the end of our community school reporting this season and I wanted to reflect what it was like to really sit in these stories \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Angelica was a little a little shy at first, a little nervous, which I, you know, completely normal reaction. The thing that stuck with me for just the whole day was just her, her, just like the like that she for her this whole, you know, like her leaving school and coming back. This decision. She really made it for herself. She understands the value of education. The things she was repeating again and again was like, I wanna learn English. When I first came to the U.S., you know, the first place that we came to was Oakland and I think that, when you’re in a school that sees a lot of kids come and go, you kind of feel like you’re, you know, you’re kind of like in the fight by yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> I was talking to the community school coordinator and then also, one of the founders, and they were saying, like, it’s such a weird thing to do at a school where you like, see kids leaving, but you understand that, like, their realities are things that they have to deal with. And so you have to kind of let them go. But your job is just to be like when you’re ready to come back, like, come back here and like you’ll be okay. And it seems like they do a really good job of that versus like a school that would either be like, don’t leave and then like as soon as the student leaves, it’s kind of like, yeah, if I see you, i see you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Totally, yeah. And that’s why, I really loved being able to accompany you on these trips because it just shows many ways you can interpret the community model. Where it could be a thousand factors that could, you know, change the outcome.That goes to the point we’re making that there is no perfect quote unquote perfect community school. There’s no perfect way to establish or create a community school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Thank you for talking to me Carlos.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Thank you Nimah, this was awesome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> it’s really always a pleasure to work with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí:\u003c/strong> Likewise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Whether a school is based in Oakland pursuing the legacy of the Panther School or elsewhere, educators can relate to the desire for systems that serve young people better. In the meantime, they keep tracking down quick-fixes, proven strategies and those hard-to-find sustainable solutions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This episode would not have been possible without Ericka Huggins, Angela LeBlanc Ernest, Madenh Ali Hassan, Lauren Markham, Yassar Alwan, Karen Moya, and Angelica. Thank you to folks at Oakland International.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "unhoused-students-face-unique-challenges-how-can-schools-help",
"title": "Unhoused Students Face Unique Challenges. How Can Schools Help?",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn walked to school with her siblings in fourth grade, they’d spend the entire walk coming up with a game plan to keep other students from finding out their family was homeless. They figured out what to say and what to leave out, and they adjusted their hair and clothes along the way. They feared being treated \u003c/span>differently if their peers knew about their situation. As a result, school staff didn’t know they were experiencing housing insecurity or the challenges that come with it. “If we needed something, we were all scared to ask,” said Kaitlyn, who is now 18.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In San Diego, where Kaitlyn lives, an estimated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sdcoe.net/special-populations/homeless-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">20,000 youth\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are experiencing homelessness. Nationally, the number of public school students experiencing homelessness was 1.2 million in the 2021-22 school year, according to the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://profiles.nche.seiservices.com/ConsolidatedStateProfile.aspx\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">most recent data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the United States Department of Education. Unhoused students are more likely to be \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class\">chronically absent\u003c/a> and less likely to graduate in four years than their peers, according to an \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/product-files/Students_Experiencing_Homelessness_BRIEF.pdf\">analysis\u003c/a> of California school enrollment and assessment data from the Learning Policy Institute\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The same report also found that homelessness is correlated with lower student achievement. Not finishing high school can \u003ca href=\"https://www.chapinhall.org/research/education-youth-homelessness/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">increase the risk\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of ending up unhoused later in life. \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Without stable housing, it is difficult to tackle the other challenging issues families face. According to a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">report by the UCLA Center for the Transformation of Schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the problems that unhoused families face are too complex for one system to address alone. However, schools can be service hubs that bring educational services, healthcare providers and social services to students and families in ways that welfare and housing agencies can’t do on their own.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn enrolled at San Diego’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch School\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a fifth grader, she and her siblings began getting the help they needed. “We could ask, and there were always resources for us,” she said. Monarch is a K-12 school dedicated to serving unhoused students and their families. It uses the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59903/when-students-basic-needs-are-met-by-community-schools-learning-can-flourish\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">community school model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to support students and families by providing services on school grounds. With over 35 years of experience, Monarch’s practices are an example for other schools, which often \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/homeless-and-suspended-in-california/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are not serving unhoused students well\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Monarch’s approach falls into three areas: meeting students’ basic needs, improving students’ ability to focus on academic milestones, and cultivating students’ sense of belief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Meeting basic needs \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unhoused students may need extra support because they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://edsource.org/2022/liaisons-play-pivotal-role-in-connecting-california-homeless-children-to-services/667682\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to have their needs met while navigating unstable housing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. At Monarch, an organization called The Monarch School Project is located on campus to help families access social services and housing. The organization partners with food banks, the housing authority and health centers to serve families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana Rodriguez, a parent with three kids enrolled at Monarch, said it was important to feel like she mattered to the school as much as her kids do. “When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down and you don’t have resources,” she said. “I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira DeVries, CEO of The Monarch School Project, recommended that educators and administrators lead with curiosity, rather than judgment, to discover \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63920/building-parent-teacher-relationships-can-be-hard-positive-phone-calls-home-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what assets parents bring to the table\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and how they can be leveraged. Monarch has a dedicated area on the school grounds where caregivers can receive comprehensive support, including access to laundry facilities and health services. The center connects parents with staff members who can assist with everything from meeting with case managers or social workers to resume support and learning about job opportunities. It also offers a safe space for parents to regroup if they’ve had to leave their shelter early in the morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Improving students’ ability to focus \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students experiencing homelessness often lack the support they need to fully engage in learning, from basic needs to emotional and physical safety, according to DeVries. Additionally, these students may be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57982/trauma-is-a-lens-not-a-label-how-schools-can-support-all-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">dealing with trauma\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from life-threatening events or stressful environments. This often leads to interruptions in their schooling, requiring more support so that students have the mental space they need to focus on learning. “Each time they’re absent, each time they’re not staying in school consistently, they’re falling behind,” said Kristin Tanner, a literacy teacher at Monarch. Those interruptions can affect their ability to reach critical milestones, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like third-grade reading levels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tanner remembers one student who had trouble adjusting to attending Monarch. “It would take her sometimes 20 minutes or half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor,” Tanner said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522398386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4139923/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consistency and a nurturing environment are key\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to supporting unhoused students, especially since studies show that students experiencing homelessness often lack access to adults or mentors they can trust. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a4.htm?s_cid=su7201a4_w\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent survey by the CDC\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students who experienced unstable housing had more persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in the past year than their stably housed peers. For her student with adjustment difficulties, Tanner helped find a mental health therapist. Additionally, she said that Monarch students benefit from volunteers and tutors who offer extra classroom support. “Now I’m beginning to see the academic growth,” Tanner said of the student. “Now that we’ve dealt with those issues she was facing, she’s ready to learn.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cultivating students’ sense of belief\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Constant mobility and lack of control over their circumstances can affect students’ perception of their ability to change their situation, according to DeVries. When students have not been in an environment that nurtures their individuality, they are less likely to develop a strong sense of self-belief. “Once that happens, it’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, caregiver or anyone in that child’s life to help them believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever,” DeVries said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homeless students are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/schools-fail-to-count-homeless-students/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">often undercounted\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. They may retreat and hide in school settings, according to DeVries, because they are focused on neutralizing their impact on the world instead of cultivating their skills or sense of self. Educators can encourage students’ self-belief \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Monarch-JI-2022-Promoting-Resilience.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">by exposing them to social programs and activities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Make space for a kid to identify their own skills and then empower them to cultivate them,” DeVries advised. When students realize they are good at something, they start to believe they can impact the world around them, which boosts their dignity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azaiah, a recent graduate from Monarch, formed a close relationship with the volleyball coach after playing throughout his high school years. He now serves as an assistant coach for the team while attending community college. He credited the ability to take college courses at school and college visits as the main reasons he decided to pursue a degree in psychology to become a mental health therapist. “Coming to Monarch helped me change the way I think,” Azaiah said. “It helped me gain more confidence.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana Rodriguez was struggling with getting her son to school, but not for the reasons you might expect. It wasn’t traffic or that the alarm clock never went off, Diana and her family were experiencing homelessness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me and my kids dad and my kids were staying in a shelter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She lives in San Diego, a city that has seen homelessness rise by 14% in the last year alone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Insecure housing makes everything take longer. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of hard because I didn’t have a bus pass to take my son to National City. And we were like, literally walking from the from the trolley station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The US has a law called the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">McKinney-Vento\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Act\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was put in place to make sure\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">students experiencing homelessness get what they need so they can have access to education. That includes support with getting children to and from school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the principal there for a bus pass and she didn’t know what I was talking about. I said, no, I heard the case manager said that we’re able to get assistance if we need it. She didn’t really know, she wasn’t educated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with an \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">estimated \u003c/span>20,000 youth \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">experiencing homelessness in San Diego\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, that school did not have the tools to help families deal with the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that come with housing instability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana’s story is not particularly unique, especially when California has experienced a 48% increase in unhoused students over the past decade.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a \u003c/span>problem\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> when schools don’t know how to support these kids because\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> studies\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">show\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> they are more likely to struggle in school; They have lower chances of graduating; and they’re likely to fall behind because of chronic absenteeism. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Plus, not finishing high school can actually increase their risk of ending up unhoused later on in life. \u003c/span>It’s a cycle that’s really tough to break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Just when Diana was feeling hopeless about her situation, someone told her to check out Monarch School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch started in 1987 as a drop-in center for youth experiencing homelessness. It was and continues to be funded by the San Diego County Office of Education and the nonprofit Monarch School Project. Back then, it was staffed by just one teacher, but the need to support unhoused students in the county was so great that over about a decade it grew into a K12 public school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my full legal name is Dyane Plumly Nuñez, but at work I just go by Dyane Plumly. I am the principal at Monarch School.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>A\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ll the students who attend Monarch attend Monarch because they have experience or are experiencing being unhoused.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school serves about 300 students every year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students and families choose to attend Monarch. We’re not like the neighborhood school. So a very wide representation of kids that live all across the county have a wide variety of experiences and prior school experience as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Families find out about Monarch from shelters, social service agencies and by word of mouth. Students often leave Monarch to go to a traditional school when their living situations improve. However some students will stay enrolled for years and may attend until graduation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have siblings and families at our school. So it really provides an opportunity to really get to know a kid, really get to know their family, and then thinking about that relationship that we have with their families and with our teachers and our partners to think about what it is that they want. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch uses the \u003c/span>community school model\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to disrupt cycles of homelessness. That means it tries to meet the needs of families and students by having as many services as possible located on the school grounds – where they are easy to access. The school has a nonprofit organization on the school site to provide most of the services.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my name is Afira DeVries…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira is the CEO and president of the nonprofit located at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have access to a full scope of supports and services that are intended to stabilize the student so that they can learn in their classroom, and also support the evolution of the family so that they’re no longer in a position of conditional need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Intercom: Good morning, it’s a sunny morning…the only announcement that I have is we have Butterfly Boutique today, so you need to sign up if you want to go.\u003c/em>]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Butterfly Boutique is where students pick out brand new clothes. The school even has showers with toiletries. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also partner with other nonprofits in the community\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have really, really tight partnerships with organizations like Family Health Center here in San Diego. They provide us with a nurse practitioner. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Partnerships with like Feeding San Diego and specialty foods to address food insecurity. The housing authority provides us with housing vouchers for our families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> While community schools are popping up around the country. Schools like Monarch that are completely focused on students and families experiencing homelessness are pretty rare. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira said having a school just for students experiencing homelessness might not work everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s essential are the practices and approaches that we utilize here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MUSIC\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The practices and resources implemented at Monarch could serve as valuable lessons for \u003c/span>all schools\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, since students in many districts experience homelessness. For example, partnering with parents can lead to stability and improvement for the whole family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is absolutely nobody more creative or resilient than an unhoused parent, because they will stop at nothing to protect their child and to come up with ways to make it feel better than it actually is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staff members are trained to assume each parent coming through their doors is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We don’t get in your way around things that we have no business getting in the way of. You need a bus pass. We got bus passes. Here’s the bus pass. Now what? Right now what? Because let’s talk about what you brought in the door with you. What are your strengths? What are your skills? What are you particularly good at? What have you tried that has worked for you? And everybody has an answer for those questions. And it feels completely different to be asked those questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember Diana? The parent that was having trouble getting her son to school? When she came to Monarch, she had a completely different experience than the one she had at her son’s previous school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I went one day and I said, how can I enroll my son? and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met Ms. Carina in the front desk, and Ms. Carina was like, so, like, welcoming.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She’s like don’t worry, like, we’ll take care of you here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She felt like a huge weight was lifted from her shoulders. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school did really important things for Diana right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They help me with the bus pass. They they just they even asked me, like, does your son need clothes? Does your son need anything? Like, and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, for reals, like for free?” And it was really, I was really thankful because I wasn’t used to that kind of help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like very like, thankful. But but like this, like overwhelming sense of like, you know what, like I’m not by myself. There’s a school for my child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They helped her get into stable housing and provided a safe place for her kids to be throughout the week. With those things taken care of Diana herself. could start to thrive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this day and age, especially living in San Diego, it’s very hard to make time for yourself because you’re too busy surviving. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next benefit would probably be helping me as a mom grow, because I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She credits the school as being a huge part of her success as a parent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of me becoming a better mom is trying to further my education so that I can also be better for my children. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because of the resources that Monarch provided, I was able to get my associate’s degree with honors at City College, at San Diego City College, and then next year I’ll receive my bachelor’s degree from San Diego State University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporting unhoused students doesn’t stop with parental support. Coming up after the break, we’ll dive into strategies for supporting students’ academic development and agency. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir : \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students step onto the school campus, they’re not just carrying textbooks and pencils; they’re bringing their entire selves, struggles and all. S\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who experience homelessness will often come to a school environment and feel an impulse to hide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What that initially means is I need to be as unseen as possible in this environment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Afira, again. She’s the CEO of the nonprofit at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to fly under the radar or I need to be absent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Classes and programs that connect students to the world outside of school can keep students invested in learning and help them build trusting relationships with adults or mentors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that they can have a concept of what their career might be and have direct access to feel and see what that might look like for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They are going to be the artist, the singer, the mathematician, the dancer, wha-the the athlete, the whatever they are naturally and organically, they’re going to pursue those, those skills because they’re in an environment that doesn’t force them or does not sort of organically make them feel like they need to hide under the radar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some people are critical of having schools that are only for unhoused students. They say that students’ basic needs, like transportation and access to supplies, can and should be provided in a traditional school. They worry there is that keeping vulnerable students separated will increase stigma in the long run. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report by UCLA revealed\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students experiencing homelessness are often overlooked and misunderstood in mainstream schools. Typically, mainstream schools lack the specialized training and financial resources needed to support these students. On the other hand community-based organizations are able to get resources to families more quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kaitlyn is a student who graduated from Monarch last year. before she came to Monarch, she remembers feeling like she had to hide the fact that she and her siblings were not well off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kaitlyn:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We were, we should be embarrassed to like what we wore or how we did our hair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the walk to school she would game plan with her siblings. Like, “How are we going to keep people from knowing our situation for as long as possible?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like I was in a shell. Me and my siblings were like don’t tell people this and that. I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we needed something, I was we were all scared to ask for something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a school with tools to address homelessness, she made friends quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You could talk to everyone, like with open arms and I wouldn’t have to feel embarrassed about anything because we all had similar stories or like I remember we should do like story told my friends, all like I went through this to and this and that I don’t know, it was just like comforting to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She can name adults from Monarch that she can go to for advice and help. One of which urged her to give college a try. Kaitlyn just started at Southwestern, a local community college. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students’ basic needs are met, It frees up their brain space so that they’re able to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No matter what your style of learning is, you have to be able to focus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But if you’re coming to school exhausted because you haven’t slept in three days and haven’t showered in a week and haven’t seen your mom or dad or someone that’s important to you or your siblings, and you’re getting to school. The very, very last thing you want to have to do is be in the present, in the now, and focus on what’s in front of you. You’re generally looking for other ways to self-soothe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Unhoused students may be experiencing trauma, a response to life-threatening events, harmful conditions or stressful environments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because they’re either born into or experiencing the circumstance of homelessness. That is, really… it will rob you of your sense of individuality and any sense of safety, right? Because that mobility is crushing and it does not allow a child to feel safe because there are no roots. Kids need roots to feel safe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s likely that unhoused students experienced interruptions in their schooling and require more focused support as they fill gaps in their learning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>So it helps to have small classes and aides in each room. Kristin Tanner is , a 1-3rd grade literacy teacher. She remembers one student who had a hard time adjusting when she first arrived at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It would take her sometimes 20 minutes to a half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Things started to improve when the young girl was able to experience the consistency of the classroom and understand that it was a safe place. Kirsten used a few approaches focused on connection: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Building a relationship with her, with her mom, and then, additionally, really making sure that, having that connection with her therapist as well as with other support staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mental health services and building supportive relationships enabled the student to show up to the classroom differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I look at her now, I, and I tell her every day, I’m I this, always just blown away by the growth in her. H\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">er mental health and her emotional health and just her way, that she moves throughout the day because she’s not with me all day. She’s in other classes. And hearing that she’s doing well there is just a huge accomplishment for her.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Now that we’ve dealt with those, those issues that she was facing, now she’s ready to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Creating a nurturing and stable environment within the school is essential for students who may be facing instability elsewhere in their lives. Here’s Afira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A child begins to understand what their own capacity and potential is by the time they’re about ten years old. And that’s called the locus of control. And they either believe they’re in control of their lives, or they think that the world is in control of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kids who have not been in an environment that’s nurturing their individuality as a person, as an individual human being, are not going to cultivate self-belief, and they’re not going to feel like they’re in control of their life. And once that happens, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, for a caregiver, for anybody in that child’s life to get them to believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Azaiah is another recent graduate. His mom brought him to Monarch and used their services to find stable housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was that was a really big help because my mom had, like, health issues, so. And she wasn’t able to, like, work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He remembers they helped him furnish his room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>W\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I got my room, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they paid for, like all the stuff that I needed for, for like a bed, a TV and like a dresser and stuff like that. And they provided food and like, gift cards and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Many students experiencing homelessness often struggle to find mentors who understand their circumstances. Azaiah played volleyball for the school and formed a strong bond with his coach. And when he graduated…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>They hired me for the boys volleyball team so I can assist my coach, my old coach, and learn from him, and then hopefully coach the girls if possible\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school organized for folks from the Zoo to come and host interviews for any students interested in working there. So he was able to get a job at the San Diego Zoo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>What’s your favorite animal there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Red pandas. I love the red pandas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, my gosh, they are so cute. I watch videos of them when I am sad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m working there, coaching here and yeah, just taking care of my mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This year he started at Grossmont College.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>My major is psychology, so I’m hoping to transfer after my two years and hopefully go to either Grand Canyon University, GCU or UCSD. I want to become a mental health therapist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Stories like Kaitlyn and Azaiah’s show that great things can happen when students’ are connected to robust social services networks and have access to trusted adults. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Schools must learn how to serve unhoused students and their families because the likelihood of encountering a student whose family has fallen on hard times is high. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is especially true for schools in California, which has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more than half of the entire country’s unhoused population \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch is a prime example of how the community school model can provide the students and families with easy access to basic needs. Once students have these needs, ongoing mental health support is crucial. And – and I know you all know this – educational opportunities that interest kids and connect them to the outside world can make learning worthwhile.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Every child deserves an opportunity to thrive. It’s not only about providing education; it’s about providing support, stability, and a hope for a brighter future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn walked to school with her siblings in fourth grade, they’d spend the entire walk coming up with a game plan to keep other students from finding out their family was homeless. They figured out what to say and what to leave out, and they adjusted their hair and clothes along the way. They feared being treated \u003c/span>differently if their peers knew about their situation. As a result, school staff didn’t know they were experiencing housing insecurity or the challenges that come with it. “If we needed something, we were all scared to ask,” said Kaitlyn, who is now 18.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In San Diego, where Kaitlyn lives, an estimated \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sdcoe.net/special-populations/homeless-education\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">20,000 youth\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are experiencing homelessness. Nationally, the number of public school students experiencing homelessness was 1.2 million in the 2021-22 school year, according to the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://profiles.nche.seiservices.com/ConsolidatedStateProfile.aspx\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">most recent data\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from the United States Department of Education. Unhoused students are more likely to be \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64107/how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class\">chronically absent\u003c/a> and less likely to graduate in four years than their peers, according to an \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/product-files/Students_Experiencing_Homelessness_BRIEF.pdf\">analysis\u003c/a> of California school enrollment and assessment data from the Learning Policy Institute\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. The same report also found that homelessness is correlated with lower student achievement. Not finishing high school can \u003ca href=\"https://www.chapinhall.org/research/education-youth-homelessness/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">increase the risk\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of ending up unhoused later in life. \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Without stable housing, it is difficult to tackle the other challenging issues families face. According to a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">report by the UCLA Center for the Transformation of Schools\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the problems that unhoused families face are too complex for one system to address alone. However, schools can be service hubs that bring educational services, healthcare providers and social services to students and families in ways that welfare and housing agencies can’t do on their own.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Kaitlyn enrolled at San Diego’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch School\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a fifth grader, she and her siblings began getting the help they needed. “We could ask, and there were always resources for us,” she said. Monarch is a K-12 school dedicated to serving unhoused students and their families. It uses the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59903/when-students-basic-needs-are-met-by-community-schools-learning-can-flourish\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">community school model\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to support students and families by providing services on school grounds. With over 35 years of experience, Monarch’s practices are an example for other schools, which often \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/homeless-and-suspended-in-california/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are not serving unhoused students well\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Monarch’s approach falls into three areas: meeting students’ basic needs, improving students’ ability to focus on academic milestones, and cultivating students’ sense of belief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Meeting basic needs \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unhoused students may need extra support because they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://edsource.org/2022/liaisons-play-pivotal-role-in-connecting-california-homeless-children-to-services/667682\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to have their needs met while navigating unstable housing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. At Monarch, an organization called The Monarch School Project is located on campus to help families access social services and housing. The organization partners with food banks, the housing authority and health centers to serve families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana Rodriguez, a parent with three kids enrolled at Monarch, said it was important to feel like she mattered to the school as much as her kids do. “When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down and you don’t have resources,” she said. “I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira DeVries, CEO of The Monarch School Project, recommended that educators and administrators lead with curiosity, rather than judgment, to discover \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63920/building-parent-teacher-relationships-can-be-hard-positive-phone-calls-home-can-help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what assets parents bring to the table\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and how they can be leveraged. Monarch has a dedicated area on the school grounds where caregivers can receive comprehensive support, including access to laundry facilities and health services. The center connects parents with staff members who can assist with everything from meeting with case managers or social workers to resume support and learning about job opportunities. It also offers a safe space for parents to regroup if they’ve had to leave their shelter early in the morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Improving students’ ability to focus \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Students experiencing homelessness often lack the support they need to fully engage in learning, from basic needs to emotional and physical safety, according to DeVries. Additionally, these students may be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57982/trauma-is-a-lens-not-a-label-how-schools-can-support-all-students\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">dealing with trauma\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> from life-threatening events or stressful environments. This often leads to interruptions in their schooling, requiring more support so that students have the mental space they need to focus on learning. “Each time they’re absent, each time they’re not staying in school consistently, they’re falling behind,” said Kristin Tanner, a literacy teacher at Monarch. Those interruptions can affect their ability to reach critical milestones, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like third-grade reading levels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tanner remembers one student who had trouble adjusting to attending Monarch. “It would take her sometimes 20 minutes or half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor,” Tanner said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2522398386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4139923/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Consistency and a nurturing environment are key\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to supporting unhoused students, especially since studies show that students experiencing homelessness often lack access to adults or mentors they can trust. According to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a4.htm?s_cid=su7201a4_w\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recent survey by the CDC\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students who experienced unstable housing had more persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in the past year than their stably housed peers. For her student with adjustment difficulties, Tanner helped find a mental health therapist. Additionally, she said that Monarch students benefit from volunteers and tutors who offer extra classroom support. “Now I’m beginning to see the academic growth,” Tanner said of the student. “Now that we’ve dealt with those issues she was facing, she’s ready to learn.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cultivating students’ sense of belief\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Constant mobility and lack of control over their circumstances can affect students’ perception of their ability to change their situation, according to DeVries. When students have not been in an environment that nurtures their individuality, they are less likely to develop a strong sense of self-belief. “Once that happens, it’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, caregiver or anyone in that child’s life to help them believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever,” DeVries said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homeless students are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://publicintegrity.org/education/unhoused-and-undercounted/schools-fail-to-count-homeless-students/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">often undercounted\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. They may retreat and hide in school settings, according to DeVries, because they are focused on neutralizing their impact on the world instead of cultivating their skills or sense of self. Educators can encourage students’ self-belief \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://monarchschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Monarch-JI-2022-Promoting-Resilience.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">by exposing them to social programs and activities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Make space for a kid to identify their own skills and then empower them to cultivate them,” DeVries advised. When students realize they are good at something, they start to believe they can impact the world around them, which boosts their dignity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azaiah, a recent graduate from Monarch, formed a close relationship with the volleyball coach after playing throughout his high school years. He now serves as an assistant coach for the team while attending community college. He credited the ability to take college courses at school and college visits as the main reasons he decided to pursue a degree in psychology to become a mental health therapist. “Coming to Monarch helped me change the way I think,” Azaiah said. “It helped me gain more confidence.”\u003c/span>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana Rodriguez was struggling with getting her son to school, but not for the reasons you might expect. It wasn’t traffic or that the alarm clock never went off, Diana and her family were experiencing homelessness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me and my kids dad and my kids were staying in a shelter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She lives in San Diego, a city that has seen homelessness rise by 14% in the last year alone.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Insecure housing makes everything take longer. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of hard because I didn’t have a bus pass to take my son to National City. And we were like, literally walking from the from the trolley station.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The US has a law called the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">McKinney-Vento\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Act\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. It was put in place to make sure\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">students experiencing homelessness get what they need so they can have access to education. That includes support with getting children to and from school. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the principal there for a bus pass and she didn’t know what I was talking about. I said, no, I heard the case manager said that we’re able to get assistance if we need it. She didn’t really know, she wasn’t educated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even with an \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">estimated \u003c/span>20,000 youth \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">experiencing homelessness in San Diego\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, that school did not have the tools to help families deal with the \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that come with housing instability.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re homeless, you see the cruelness of the world outside because everybody’s kind of shutting you down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Diana’s story is not particularly unique, especially when California has experienced a 48% increase in unhoused students over the past decade.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a \u003c/span>problem\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> when schools don’t know how to support these kids because\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> studies\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">show\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> they are more likely to struggle in school; They have lower chances of graduating; and they’re likely to fall behind because of chronic absenteeism. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Plus, not finishing high school can actually increase their risk of ending up unhoused later on in life. \u003c/span>It’s a cycle that’s really tough to break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Just when Diana was feeling hopeless about her situation, someone told her to check out Monarch School. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch started in 1987 as a drop-in center for youth experiencing homelessness. It was and continues to be funded by the San Diego County Office of Education and the nonprofit Monarch School Project. Back then, it was staffed by just one teacher, but the need to support unhoused students in the county was so great that over about a decade it grew into a K12 public school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my full legal name is Dyane Plumly Nuñez, but at work I just go by Dyane Plumly. I am the principal at Monarch School.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>A\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ll the students who attend Monarch attend Monarch because they have experience or are experiencing being unhoused.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school serves about 300 students every year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students and families choose to attend Monarch. We’re not like the neighborhood school. So a very wide representation of kids that live all across the county have a wide variety of experiences and prior school experience as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Families find out about Monarch from shelters, social service agencies and by word of mouth. Students often leave Monarch to go to a traditional school when their living situations improve. However some students will stay enrolled for years and may attend until graduation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dyane Plumly:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have siblings and families at our school. So it really provides an opportunity to really get to know a kid, really get to know their family, and then thinking about that relationship that we have with their families and with our teachers and our partners to think about what it is that they want. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Monarch uses the \u003c/span>community school model\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to disrupt cycles of homelessness. That means it tries to meet the needs of families and students by having as many services as possible located on the school grounds – where they are easy to access. The school has a nonprofit organization on the school site to provide most of the services.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So my name is Afira DeVries…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira is the CEO and president of the nonprofit located at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They have access to a full scope of supports and services that are intended to stabilize the student so that they can learn in their classroom, and also support the evolution of the family so that they’re no longer in a position of conditional need.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Intercom: Good morning, it’s a sunny morning…the only announcement that I have is we have Butterfly Boutique today, so you need to sign up if you want to go.\u003c/em>]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Butterfly Boutique is where students pick out brand new clothes. The school even has showers with toiletries. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also partner with other nonprofits in the community\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have really, really tight partnerships with organizations like Family Health Center here in San Diego. They provide us with a nurse practitioner. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Partnerships with like Feeding San Diego and specialty foods to address food insecurity. The housing authority provides us with housing vouchers for our families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> While community schools are popping up around the country. Schools like Monarch that are completely focused on students and families experiencing homelessness are pretty rare. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Afira said having a school just for students experiencing homelessness might not work everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What’s essential are the practices and approaches that we utilize here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MUSIC\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The practices and resources implemented at Monarch could serve as valuable lessons for \u003c/span>all schools\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, since students in many districts experience homelessness. For example, partnering with parents can lead to stability and improvement for the whole family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is absolutely nobody more creative or resilient than an unhoused parent, because they will stop at nothing to protect their child and to come up with ways to make it feel better than it actually is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Staff members are trained to assume each parent coming through their doors is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We don’t get in your way around things that we have no business getting in the way of. You need a bus pass. We got bus passes. Here’s the bus pass. Now what? Right now what? Because let’s talk about what you brought in the door with you. What are your strengths? What are your skills? What are you particularly good at? What have you tried that has worked for you? And everybody has an answer for those questions. And it feels completely different to be asked those questions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember Diana? The parent that was having trouble getting her son to school? When she came to Monarch, she had a completely different experience than the one she had at her son’s previous school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I went one day and I said, how can I enroll my son? and \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met Ms. Carina in the front desk, and Ms. Carina was like, so, like, welcoming.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She’s like don’t worry, like, we’ll take care of you here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She felt like a huge weight was lifted from her shoulders. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The school did really important things for Diana right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They help me with the bus pass. They they just they even asked me, like, does your son need clothes? Does your son need anything? Like, and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, for reals, like for free?” And it was really, I was really thankful because I wasn’t used to that kind of help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like very like, thankful. But but like this, like overwhelming sense of like, you know what, like I’m not by myself. There’s a school for my child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They helped her get into stable housing and provided a safe place for her kids to be throughout the week. With those things taken care of Diana herself. could start to thrive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In this day and age, especially living in San Diego, it’s very hard to make time for yourself because you’re too busy surviving. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next benefit would probably be helping me as a mom grow, because I cannot provide the best for my children if I’m not at my best. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She credits the school as being a huge part of her success as a parent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Rodriguez:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of me becoming a better mom is trying to further my education so that I can also be better for my children. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because of the resources that Monarch provided, I was able to get my associate’s degree with honors at City College, at San Diego City College, and then next year I’ll receive my bachelor’s degree from San Diego State University.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporting unhoused students doesn’t stop with parental support. Coming up after the break, we’ll dive into strategies for supporting students’ academic development and agency. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir : \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students step onto the school campus, they’re not just carrying textbooks and pencils; they’re bringing their entire selves, struggles and all. S\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who experience homelessness will often come to a school environment and feel an impulse to hide.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What that initially means is I need to be as unseen as possible in this environment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Afira, again. She’s the CEO of the nonprofit at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to fly under the radar or I need to be absent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Classes and programs that connect students to the world outside of school can keep students invested in learning and help them build trusting relationships with adults or mentors.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that they can have a concept of what their career might be and have direct access to feel and see what that might look like for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They are going to be the artist, the singer, the mathematician, the dancer, wha-the the athlete, the whatever they are naturally and organically, they’re going to pursue those, those skills because they’re in an environment that doesn’t force them or does not sort of organically make them feel like they need to hide under the radar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some people are critical of having schools that are only for unhoused students. They say that students’ basic needs, like transportation and access to supplies, can and should be provided in a traditional school. They worry there is that keeping vulnerable students separated will increase stigma in the long run. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report by UCLA revealed\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, students experiencing homelessness are often overlooked and misunderstood in mainstream schools. Typically, mainstream schools lack the specialized training and financial resources needed to support these students. On the other hand community-based organizations are able to get resources to families more quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kaitlyn is a student who graduated from Monarch last year. before she came to Monarch, she remembers feeling like she had to hide the fact that she and her siblings were not well off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kaitlyn:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We were, we should be embarrassed to like what we wore or how we did our hair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the walk to school she would game plan with her siblings. Like, “How are we going to keep people from knowing our situation for as long as possible?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I felt like I was in a shell. Me and my siblings were like don’t tell people this and that. I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we needed something, I was we were all scared to ask for something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a school with tools to address homelessness, she made friends quickly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kaitlyn:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You could talk to everyone, like with open arms and I wouldn’t have to feel embarrassed about anything because we all had similar stories or like I remember we should do like story told my friends, all like I went through this to and this and that I don’t know, it was just like comforting to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> She can name adults from Monarch that she can go to for advice and help. One of which urged her to give college a try. Kaitlyn just started at Southwestern, a local community college. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students’ basic needs are met, It frees up their brain space so that they’re able to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> No matter what your style of learning is, you have to be able to focus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But if you’re coming to school exhausted because you haven’t slept in three days and haven’t showered in a week and haven’t seen your mom or dad or someone that’s important to you or your siblings, and you’re getting to school. The very, very last thing you want to have to do is be in the present, in the now, and focus on what’s in front of you. You’re generally looking for other ways to self-soothe.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Unhoused students may be experiencing trauma, a response to life-threatening events, harmful conditions or stressful environments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Because they’re either born into or experiencing the circumstance of homelessness. That is, really… it will rob you of your sense of individuality and any sense of safety, right? Because that mobility is crushing and it does not allow a child to feel safe because there are no roots. Kids need roots to feel safe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s likely that unhoused students experienced interruptions in their schooling and require more focused support as they fill gaps in their learning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>So it helps to have small classes and aides in each room. Kristin Tanner is , a 1-3rd grade literacy teacher. She remembers one student who had a hard time adjusting when she first arrived at Monarch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It would take her sometimes 20 minutes to a half an hour to even get her inside the classroom. And then when she was here, it was head on her desk and crying or refusing to sit down or sitting somewhere else in the room on the floor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Things started to improve when the young girl was able to experience the consistency of the classroom and understand that it was a safe place. Kirsten used a few approaches focused on connection: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Building a relationship with her, with her mom, and then, additionally, really making sure that, having that connection with her therapist as well as with other support staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mental health services and building supportive relationships enabled the student to show up to the classroom differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kristin Tanner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I look at her now, I, and I tell her every day, I’m I this, always just blown away by the growth in her. H\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">er mental health and her emotional health and just her way, that she moves throughout the day because she’s not with me all day. She’s in other classes. And hearing that she’s doing well there is just a huge accomplishment for her.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Now that we’ve dealt with those, those issues that she was facing, now she’s ready to learn. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Creating a nurturing and stable environment within the school is essential for students who may be facing instability elsewhere in their lives. Here’s Afira.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Afira DeVries:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A child begins to understand what their own capacity and potential is by the time they’re about ten years old. And that’s called the locus of control. And they either believe they’re in control of their lives, or they think that the world is in control of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kids who have not been in an environment that’s nurturing their individuality as a person, as an individual human being, are not going to cultivate self-belief, and they’re not going to feel like they’re in control of their life. And once that happens, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of hard work for a teacher, for a caregiver, for anybody in that child’s life to get them to believe that their circumstances are temporary, but their potential is permanent and forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Azaiah is another recent graduate. His mom brought him to Monarch and used their services to find stable housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was that was a really big help because my mom had, like, health issues, so. And she wasn’t able to, like, work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He remembers they helped him furnish his room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>W\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I got my room, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they paid for, like all the stuff that I needed for, for like a bed, a TV and like a dresser and stuff like that. And they provided food and like, gift cards and stuff like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Many students experiencing homelessness often struggle to find mentors who understand their circumstances. Azaiah played volleyball for the school and formed a strong bond with his coach. And when he graduated…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>They hired me for the boys volleyball team so I can assist my coach, my old coach, and learn from him, and then hopefully coach the girls if possible\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school organized for folks from the Zoo to come and host interviews for any students interested in working there. So he was able to get a job at the San Diego Zoo. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>What’s your favorite animal there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Red pandas. I love the red pandas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Oh, my gosh, they are so cute. I watch videos of them when I am sad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m working there, coaching here and yeah, just taking care of my mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This year he started at Grossmont College.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Azaiah: \u003c/strong>My major is psychology, so I’m hoping to transfer after my two years and hopefully go to either Grand Canyon University, GCU or UCSD. I want to become a mental health therapist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Stories like Kaitlyn and Azaiah’s show that great things can happen when students’ are connected to robust social services networks and have access to trusted adults. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Schools must learn how to serve unhoused students and their families because the likelihood of encountering a student whose family has fallen on hard times is high. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is especially true for schools in California, which has \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://oshi-la.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cts-state-of-crisis-report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more than half of the entire country’s unhoused population \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monarch is a prime example of how the community school model can provide the students and families with easy access to basic needs. Once students have these needs, ongoing mental health support is crucial. And – and I know you all know this – educational opportunities that interest kids and connect them to the outside world can make learning worthwhile.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Every child deserves an opportunity to thrive. It’s not only about providing education; it’s about providing support, stability, and a hope for a brighter future.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "how-postcards-to-parents-can-help-schools-get-kids-back-to-class",
"title": "How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class",
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"headTitle": "How Postcards to Parents Can Help Schools Get Kids Back to Class | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students didn’t come back to Maple Elementary after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, Niki Espinoza, the school’s community school coordinator, noticed right away. “I live in the Shafter community, the community that I serve. I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games and out at restaurants,” she said, emphasizing that the school community is small and close-knit. Situated in a rural district in California with nearly 300 students, Maple Elementary faced the concerning reality that nearly a third of their students were becoming chronically absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">defined as students missing 10% or more of the school year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, has long been a concern for educators, but the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59968/a-third-of-public-school-children-were-chronically-absent-after-classrooms-re-opened-advocacy-group-says\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges worsened during the pandemic\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Stanford economist Tom Dee’s research revealed that chronic absenteeism rates across the country nearly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312249121\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doubled on average\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “People just fell out of the habit of going to school, and the experience of remote instruction may have diminished the perceived value of in-person learning,” he said. “This underscores a widespread failure of students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/mindshift/61166/3-years-since-the-pandemic-wrecked-attendance-kids-still-arent-showing-up-to-school\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reintegrate into their academic routines\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as they return to schools.” Other research on chronically absent students has shown that they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/attendancedata/chapter1a.asp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to graduate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Expanded-Learning-May-2022_final.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more likely to struggle academically\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Determined not to let students slip through the cracks, Espinoza began to seek solutions. She found a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/todd_rogers/files/reducing_student_absenteeism.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">study by Stanford education researcher Carly Robinson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that showed that sending mailers to parents about their child’s attendance could reduce absenteeism. Robinson acknowledged that it may seem like too simple of a solution to an issue that is affecting schools across the nation. “In many cases, schools are already communicating to parents in a variety of different ways,” she said, adding that the mailers helped parents better track missed days and understand the importance of regular attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing that it was a low-cost solution, Espinoza decided to try it out. “I jumped into Canva, and I created two postcards,” she said. One postcard said “We Miss You. We Want You to Come Back to School,” while the other one plainly stated how many days of school the child has missed. Espinoza’s experimentation revealed three insights that are pivotal in addressing absenteeism: Parents aren’t informed about the effect absences have on their child’s education, parents often don’t know how many days of school their child has missed, and schools must be prepared to address the root causes of absences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">School office secretary Patricia De Julian (left) and Elvia Morales work at the front desk at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Attendance in early grades matters\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents may underestimate the impact of missing a day of school here or there. However, even sporadic absences can hurt learning. Contrary to common belief, chronic absenteeism is not exclusive to middle or high school students; it begins \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63995/kindergartners-are-missing-a-lot-of-school-this-district-has-a-fix\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">as early as kindergarten\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The biggest predictor of whether a student is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year,” Robinson said. Absences during the early grades can create a pattern that continues throughout a student’s educational journey, with consequences such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">failing to reach crucial third-grade reading benchmarks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is closely linked to future dropout rates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Espinoza said students who missed school were missing out on other benefits, too. “When a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults,” she said. “The socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To address parental misconceptions about attendance, Espinoza shared facts about attendance on Maple Elementary’s social media feeds in addition to sending out mailers. “I put the facts in black and white, and I started to educate my parents on why it matters,” she said. By sharing research on the importance of regular attendance, schools can help parents make sure their children consistently attend class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Keeping track of absences is hard\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Robinson’s study, researchers used the mailers to provide \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">parents\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with accurate information on their child’s attendance record because parents typically \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/parents-really-feel-attendance/#:~:text=Parents%20often%20don't%20know%20how%20many%20days%20their%20children%20miss.&text=only%2030%20percent%20said%20their,what%20we%20consider%20chronic%20absence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">struggle to keep track of their child’s school absences\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Parents often underestimate their own child’s absences by about 50%. Let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school,” Robinson said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Espinoza’s district, many parents were unaware of their child’s absenteeism or what constituted chronic absenteeism. “If I call a parent and say your child is chronically absent, they’re going to say, ‘I don’t know what that even means’,” she said. She realized that it was unfair to hold parents accountable for \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what they did not know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Espinoza used the mailers as a proactive means to kindly inform parents, often sending them in the family’s home language. Upon receiving the postcards, some parents reached out to her with surprise and embarrassment. “The postcards are not punitive. They’re not meant to shame. They’re there to say, ‘Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them’,” Espinoza said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Students may need additional support\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In response to the mailers, Espinoza saw the number of chronically absent students decrease significantly. She sent 70 postcards in her first batch – covering almost a third of students. The following term, she only needed to send out 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While mailers can alert parents to their child’s absences, it’s important to recognize the root causes of absenteeism, too. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/chronic-absence/addressing-chronic-absence/3-tiers-of-intervention/root-causes/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homelessness, health problems and family responsibilities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are among the most common reasons for student absenteeism. In many cases, it’s not enough to just tell parents how many days of school their child has missed. When absences continued after parents received mailers, Espinoza followed up with phone calls to parents and conversations with students to learn what was going on. “There were conversations of fear. There were conversations of ‘My child feels like they’re so behind, they don’t want to go back.’ And I had to address those,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64114\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64114\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Teacher Sarah Poettgen leads a reading session for two students at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple Elementary’s community school model, which prioritizes social services in addition to academics, proved to be instrumental in addressing the factors contributing to student absenteeism. Once Espinoza identified the reasons for a student’s irregular attendance, she could collaborate with school staff to implement targeted interventions and support services. For example, when Ayden, an eighth grader, missed school after his grandfather died, the school provided referrals to mental health services to help him cope with his grief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many cases students feel as if they have fallen behind and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62271/most-students-are-learning-at-typical-pace-again-but-those-who-lost-ground-during-covid-19-arent-catching-up\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">won’t be able to catch up again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That was the case for Noel, a third grader who felt behind in his studies after missing several days of school when pandemic restrictions were lifted. Literacy and math coaches provided additional academic support during and after school to help him catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prioritizing collaboration with parents, proactive intervention and holistic support were essential in reducing absenteeism at Maple Elementary. Throughout her attendance campaign, Espinoza recognized a child’s reluctance to attend school \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://childmind.org/article/when-kids-refuse-to-go-to-school/#:~:text=School%20refusal%20usually%20goes%20along,used%20to%20treat%20school%20refusal.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">could signal deeper issues\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, such as anxiety, bullying or academic struggles. “Attendance, if monitored and watched, can help us help children in all other areas of their lives,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4691385622&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember perfect attendance awards? They’re used to encourage students to come to school regularly, but there is a growing debate about whether they are outdated. Word on the street is that they basically award students for having good immune systems – or even worse – for coming to school sick! Also one study found that these kinds of incentives \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t actually work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the study, students who received perfect attendance awards essentially realized they were attending more school than their peers and then they felt like they could miss school going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But the importance of attendance – whether it’s perfect or not – is crucial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today’s episode is all about chronic absenteeism. That’s when a child misses 10% or more of the school year. Typically that ends up being around 18 days.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism has become a major concern across the country, especially after the pandemic when 93% of households had kids doing distance learning. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of being remote may have led kids to see less value in in-person schooling. There are several kids who miss so many days of school that they just stop attending.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki Espinoza, was determined to not let any of her students slip through the cracks. As Maple School District’s community school coordinator, it’s her job to communicate with parents and students and make sure the school district is meeting their needs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school community community coordinator is so important because we are bridging that gap. We are standing in the middle of the gap and saying, no, we’re on your side. I’m not your child’s teacher. I’m your child’s advocate on this campus, and I’m your advocate. And I want them to love coming to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple is located in the Central Valley, an agricultural region in California. Many of the families who live there work on farms or in packing sheds. Niki lives there too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games, um, out at restaurants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re not urban. We’re in the middle of an orchard. We only have one teacher per grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a TK-8th grade with about 300 students so pretty small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just a note here: It’s common for the word “district” to be used to describe a group of schools. But in Maple’s case things are far apart and it’s a rural area. So when we talk about Maple you might hear the word “district” or “school” and we’re talking about the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Covid drove a wedge on a lot of school campuses across the nation, the parents versus the school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was easy for students to stay home when we started to roll back in, because there was a fear attached to COVID.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students at Maple found returning to school challenging.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of tricky coming back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>Students like Dallas, an eighth grader.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you have to interact with people and, and then also you’re like, learning online isn’t like learning in school. So whenever you went back to school, it was a way different, like, environment and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel, a third grader, faced a similar situation. His parents were hesitant to send him back to school immediately after it reopened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was one of the kids, like, took forever to get from, like, virtually to class to, like, here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Niki noticed students’ attendance starting to lag, she started gathering all the information she could on chronic absenteeism. She did not like what she found.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The absenteeism was hurting our children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki was not the only educator seeing attendance at her school plummet. Stanford economist Tom Dee has been doing research on the increase in chronic absenteeism across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Literally every state for which we had data available – that was nearly all of them – saw substantial increases in chronic absenteeism.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to Tom, states that kept schools closed for a long time during the 2020-21 school year tended to experience the highest rates of absenteeism later on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, that rate of chronic absenteeism was around 14% or so, 15%, and it nearly doubled in the 21-22 school year, which was the year when virtually all our kids returned to in-person instruction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In California, where Maple is, chronic absenteeism went from 12% before the pandemic to 30% in the years after. Even though we’re getting further away from the pandemic in terms of time, things have not improved for a lot of schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For many schools, their capacity to address these issues is diminishing, because right now the federal financial support that was available to them during the pandemic is beginning to expire.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I believe that children excel when they’re on a school campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Niki again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>I believe they excel academically, but also socially, emotionally and mentally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because when a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults. And the social socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life and in a child’s life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki recognized the need for intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If a child doesn’t want to come to school, that’s a red flag for me. Tell me why. Are you nervous? Is somebody hurting your feelings. Are you being bullied? Do you not understand the assignments and are you getting behind and are you scared? Is something happening at home? See if attendance is monitored and watched in Can help us help children in all other areas of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luckily, one research paper Niki found provided solutions that she could use immediately. We’ll get into her next steps after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In her quest to find solutions to chronic absenteeism, Niki Espinoza came across a study by a group of researchers, including Carly Robinson. Carly is currently a researcher at Stanford University’s Graduation School of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In general, I focus on how we can use the various people in children’s lives to improve their outcomes. So, really, how does social support impact students success? Both in terms of their achievement, but also in terms of their well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The research revealed something that many parents might not be aware that consistent attendance in grades K-5 is extremely important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people think of a chronically absent student, they think of, you know, students skipping class often, students that are in middle and high school, but in reality, students start being chronically absent as early as kindergarten and we see that students who are absent more in these early grades tend to have much lower academic achievement in third, fourth, fifth grade and, and beyond. And so one really important point is that the biggest predictor of whether a students is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year. And so these absences just compound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something else Carly surfaced in her research is that when parents are asked how many days of school their child has missed, they are usually a little off. Actually they are kind of off by a lot.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents often underestimate absences by about 50%. So, let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not that the parents are being neglectful. It’s just really hard to keep track of numbers like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s often not presented to them by the school \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">until they see it on report cards or at the end of the year. And so you’re not necessarily, you know, motivated to intervene if you don’t think there’s a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In order to address the fact that parents might not know how much school their kid is missing,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly and the other researchers designed an intervention that would give parents information that was both timely and accurate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so what we ended up doing was sending a series of mailers with information on how many days of school their child had missed to date, and also link absenteeism with sort of negative outcomes. So highlighting that absences actually can add up to have negative implications for your child’s learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right. Snail mail turned out to be an effective intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We did send them in the families home language. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he mailers tended to have a pretty consistent effect across different populations of students. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hey were quite responsive to when their parents received these mailers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki – the community school coordinator at Maple – read this study and felt energized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I created two postcards. One that says, “We’ve missed you. We want you back at school” and “Your child is actually missed 20 days.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly’s study proved accurate. Niki found that parents did not know how many days their kid was absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I called a parent, Nimah and said, “Do you know how many days your son has missed?” They will not know. So why are we as schools holding them to accountable, um, information that they don’t know. Why are we holding them accountable? That’s not fair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also didn’t know what those absences meant for their child. So she went all in on educating parents by taking her attendance campaign to social media.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I started to push out fliers through Instagram, Facebook, through our remind messaging app, that gets a text message to our parents. Nothing was on it but true attendance facts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These facts were showing up once a week across all of Maple’s social feeds.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facts like…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>C\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hronic absenteeism is associated with lower academic performance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>S\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who are chronically absent in early grades are less likely to reach important learning milestones.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Chronic absenteeism can be a better indicator of whether a student will drop out than test scores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The postcards are not punitive. They’re not to shame. They’re there to say, “Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them.” In fact it says, “We miss you student. Let me help you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki took a proactive approach by informing parents about their child’s absences before they reached chronic levels. She provided this information under the assumption that parents always want what is best for their child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The number of students who were chronically absent started to decrease almost immediately.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We started seeing kids come back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Niki’s first batch of mailers she sent over 70 in 2021. That’s nearly a third of students. The following quarter she only needed to send 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Maple’s success isn’t just about sending mailers. Niki and her team adopted a holistic approach by getting to the bottom of what is keeping kids from coming to school. Niki started with talking to parents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Begin to call and say, “Hey, I miss so-and-so, you know? Or how are they feeling? Or are they coming back?” Are they nervous to come back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were conversations of fear. They were conversations of my child feels like they’re so behind they don’t want to go back. And I had to address those. And I spoke to the teachers and I spoke to my admin, and I said, “Hey, we got to all be on the same page. We got to show these kids that we’re going to help you get caught up. We’re going to be there for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember the third grader we heard from, Noel? When he returned to school, the thing that he was dreading the most was math.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I didn’t know any multiplication at all. Division too. I didn’t know any division. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to catch up on a bunch of stuff!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though Noel was a bit overwhelmed coming back he felt really supported in getting back on track. Part of the reason for that is he received extra support. Students who need it are taken out of classes to get more focused help.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If I needed help, they’d come help me, explained it to me and then gave me worksheets catch up on multiple occasions and I just do like extra multiplication to, like, catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel’s concerns were academic,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> but the primary causes of chronic absenteeism are homelessness, health problems, and family responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In order take on these barriers, Maple uses the community school model.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That means bringing the services and resources families need onto the school campus. The wraparound services Maple has on campus include school psychologists, food pantries and housing services. Local organizations and businesses are a big part of how this small district is able to support students beyond academics. There is only one small hold up for this particular school district…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our districts are separated by miles and miles of farmland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Michael Figueroa. He grew up in the Central Valley and now he’s an education consultant that works with school districts in the region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s really very few nonprofits, if any, that support our specific region or area.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by nature of where the kids live, they have less access to resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To address this, Michael helped Maple and 5 neighboring rural school districts band together to form a community school consortium. That way they can pool resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For example the consortium collectively hired a social worker who serves multiple districts at once to save money. By doing this, the social worker gets a full-time salary, which is a good motivator for them. And since the districts in the consortium share the costs, they can afford to pay for a full-time social worker together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> By putting resources together, we’re just trying to get even a fraction of what schools 20 miles, 30 miles down the road just get without any supplemental funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Being a small school in a rural area come with it’s challenges and opportunities. It sometimes hard to find the services they need, but their tight relationships with students ensure that they can identify students who needs the services it the most. For example, Ayden, an 8th grader who missed several days of school after a devastating loss.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I missed like a whole week because my great grandpa passed away. This, I think it was like two months ago now. And I just really loved him, so I just, I felt like I didn’t want to go to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>W\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">e’re here to offer services. We’re here to offer referrals, to get help. We’re here to say we’re here for your family. And that’s really the heart of the matter. That’s how we started looking at it, is let us educate. Let us equip you. No judgments, zero judgments. Tell me what’s going on. Zero judgments. Let’s help your kid.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki’s snail mail campaign coupled with Maple’s community school model has not only reduced chronic absenteeism but it also addressed underlying issues affecting student attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The cherry on top is that Maple also does a great job of making coming to school really appealing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A community school will not thrive if there isn’t engagement between the parents, guardians, caregivers, and the school. And that is why we work so hard with doing community engagement and having events on campus where we welcome the community on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They purposefully build community beyond the classroom. Ayden told me that there are fun carnival-like events a few times a year that give students an opportunity to build connections with teachers and other kids who may not be in their grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You’re thinking about school, you’re thinking about staying in the classroom, not doing anything but Maple is a lot different because, like, it’s more outgoing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a very loving school. Like, you know, everyone here, especially me, I’m like friends with like, the littlest kids.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students have a positive touch point with a teacher or staff person every day because they are excitedly greeted by staff each morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Maple is a school that you don’t want to miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode could not have been made with out Julie Boesch, Michael Figueroa, Niki Espinoza, Tom Dee, Carly Robinson, Bryan Easter, Patty De Julian, Nick Aguirre, Christian Brown and staff at Maple School District. Thank you to the students at Maple: Ayden, Nehemiah, Dallas, Noel and Teegan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’re interested in hearing more about how the community school model supports students, listen to our episode titled “How Community Schools Can Support Teachers and Families.” It features a school that created a homeless shelter on their school grounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ll have more community schools episodes coming down the pipeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng. Carlos Cabrera Lomeli provided additional reporting. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the Stuart Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. And members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When students didn’t come back to Maple Elementary after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, Niki Espinoza, the school’s community school coordinator, noticed right away. “I live in the Shafter community, the community that I serve. I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games and out at restaurants,” she said, emphasizing that the school community is small and close-knit. Situated in a rural district in California with nearly 300 students, Maple Elementary faced the concerning reality that nearly a third of their students were becoming chronically absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">defined as students missing 10% or more of the school year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, has long been a concern for educators, but the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59968/a-third-of-public-school-children-were-chronically-absent-after-classrooms-re-opened-advocacy-group-says\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">challenges worsened during the pandemic\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Stanford economist Tom Dee’s research revealed that chronic absenteeism rates across the country nearly \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312249121\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doubled on average\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “People just fell out of the habit of going to school, and the experience of remote instruction may have diminished the perceived value of in-person learning,” he said. “This underscores a widespread failure of students to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/mindshift/61166/3-years-since-the-pandemic-wrecked-attendance-kids-still-arent-showing-up-to-school\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reintegrate into their academic routines\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as they return to schools.” Other research on chronically absent students has shown that they are \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/attendancedata/chapter1a.asp\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">less likely to graduate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Expanded-Learning-May-2022_final.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more likely to struggle academically\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Determined not to let students slip through the cracks, Espinoza began to seek solutions. She found a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/todd_rogers/files/reducing_student_absenteeism.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">study by Stanford education researcher Carly Robinson\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that showed that sending mailers to parents about their child’s attendance could reduce absenteeism. Robinson acknowledged that it may seem like too simple of a solution to an issue that is affecting schools across the nation. “In many cases, schools are already communicating to parents in a variety of different ways,” she said, adding that the mailers helped parents better track missed days and understand the importance of regular attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seeing that it was a low-cost solution, Espinoza decided to try it out. “I jumped into Canva, and I created two postcards,” she said. One postcard said “We Miss You. We Want You to Come Back to School,” while the other one plainly stated how many days of school the child has missed. Espinoza’s experimentation revealed three insights that are pivotal in addressing absenteeism: Parents aren’t informed about the effect absences have on their child’s education, parents often don’t know how many days of school their child has missed, and schools must be prepared to address the root causes of absences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-116-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">School office secretary Patricia De Julian (left) and Elvia Morales work at the front desk at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Attendance in early grades matters\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents may underestimate the impact of missing a day of school here or there. However, even sporadic absences can hurt learning. Contrary to common belief, chronic absenteeism is not exclusive to middle or high school students; it begins \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63995/kindergartners-are-missing-a-lot-of-school-this-district-has-a-fix\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">as early as kindergarten\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “The biggest predictor of whether a student is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year,” Robinson said. Absences during the early grades can create a pattern that continues throughout a student’s educational journey, with consequences such as \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://www.floridarti.usf.edu/resources/format/pdf/Chronic%20Absenteeism%20Lit%20Review%202018.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">failing to reach crucial third-grade reading benchmarks\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is closely linked to future dropout rates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Espinoza said students who missed school were missing out on other benefits, too. “When a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults,” she said. “The socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To address parental misconceptions about attendance, Espinoza shared facts about attendance on Maple Elementary’s social media feeds in addition to sending out mailers. “I put the facts in black and white, and I started to educate my parents on why it matters,” she said. By sharing research on the importance of regular attendance, schools can help parents make sure their children consistently attend class.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Keeping track of absences is hard\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Robinson’s study, researchers used the mailers to provide \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">parents\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with accurate information on their child’s attendance record because parents typically \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/parents-really-feel-attendance/#:~:text=Parents%20often%20don't%20know%20how%20many%20days%20their%20children%20miss.&text=only%2030%20percent%20said%20their,what%20we%20consider%20chronic%20absence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">struggle to keep track of their child’s school absences\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. “Parents often underestimate their own child’s absences by about 50%. Let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school,” Robinson said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Espinoza’s district, many parents were unaware of their child’s absenteeism or what constituted chronic absenteeism. “If I call a parent and say your child is chronically absent, they’re going to say, ‘I don’t know what that even means’,” she said. She realized that it was unfair to hold parents accountable for \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63984/as-chronic-absenteeism-soars-in-schools-most-parents-arent-sure-what-it-is\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">what they did not know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Espinoza used the mailers as a proactive means to kindly inform parents, often sending them in the family’s home language. Upon receiving the postcards, some parents reached out to her with surprise and embarrassment. “The postcards are not punitive. They’re not meant to shame. They’re there to say, ‘Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them’,” Espinoza said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>Students may need additional support\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In response to the mailers, Espinoza saw the number of chronically absent students decrease significantly. She sent 70 postcards in her first batch – covering almost a third of students. The following term, she only needed to send out 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While mailers can alert parents to their child’s absences, it’s important to recognize the root causes of absenteeism, too. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.attendanceworks.org/chronic-absence/addressing-chronic-absence/3-tiers-of-intervention/root-causes/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Homelessness, health problems and family responsibilities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are among the most common reasons for student absenteeism. In many cases, it’s not enough to just tell parents how many days of school their child has missed. When absences continued after parents received mailers, Espinoza followed up with phone calls to parents and conversations with students to learn what was going on. “There were conversations of fear. There were conversations of ‘My child feels like they’re so behind, they don’t want to go back.’ And I had to address those,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_64114\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-64114\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2024/06/240216-ChronicAbsenteeism-55-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Teacher Sarah Poettgen leads a reading session for two students at Maple Elementary School in Shafter, Calif., on Feb. 16, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple Elementary’s community school model, which prioritizes social services in addition to academics, proved to be instrumental in addressing the factors contributing to student absenteeism. Once Espinoza identified the reasons for a student’s irregular attendance, she could collaborate with school staff to implement targeted interventions and support services. For example, when Ayden, an eighth grader, missed school after his grandfather died, the school provided referrals to mental health services to help him cope with his grief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In many cases students feel as if they have fallen behind and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/62271/most-students-are-learning-at-typical-pace-again-but-those-who-lost-ground-during-covid-19-arent-catching-up\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">won’t be able to catch up again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That was the case for Noel, a third grader who felt behind in his studies after missing several days of school when pandemic restrictions were lifted. Literacy and math coaches provided additional academic support during and after school to help him catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prioritizing collaboration with parents, proactive intervention and holistic support were essential in reducing absenteeism at Maple Elementary. Throughout her attendance campaign, Espinoza recognized a child’s reluctance to attend school \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://childmind.org/article/when-kids-refuse-to-go-to-school/#:~:text=School%20refusal%20usually%20goes%20along,used%20to%20treat%20school%20refusal.\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">could signal deeper issues\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, such as anxiety, bullying or academic struggles. “Attendance, if monitored and watched, can help us help children in all other areas of their lives,” she said.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4691385622&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember perfect attendance awards? They’re used to encourage students to come to school regularly, but there is a growing debate about whether they are outdated. Word on the street is that they basically award students for having good immune systems – or even worse – for coming to school sick! Also one study found that these kinds of incentives \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t actually work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the study, students who received perfect attendance awards essentially realized they were attending more school than their peers and then they felt like they could miss school going forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But the importance of attendance – whether it’s perfect or not – is crucial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today’s episode is all about chronic absenteeism. That’s when a child misses 10% or more of the school year. Typically that ends up being around 18 days.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chronic absenteeism has become a major concern across the country, especially after the pandemic when 93% of households had kids doing distance learning. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of being remote may have led kids to see less value in in-person schooling. There are several kids who miss so many days of school that they just stop attending.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki Espinoza, was determined to not let any of her students slip through the cracks. As Maple School District’s community school coordinator, it’s her job to communicate with parents and students and make sure the school district is meeting their needs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The school community community coordinator is so important because we are bridging that gap. We are standing in the middle of the gap and saying, no, we’re on your side. I’m not your child’s teacher. I’m your child’s advocate on this campus, and I’m your advocate. And I want them to love coming to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maple is located in the Central Valley, an agricultural region in California. Many of the families who live there work on farms or in packing sheds. Niki lives there too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I see these children out with their parents in the market, at recreational sports, games, at high school sports games, um, out at restaurants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re not urban. We’re in the middle of an orchard. We only have one teacher per grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a TK-8th grade with about 300 students so pretty small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just a note here: It’s common for the word “district” to be used to describe a group of schools. But in Maple’s case things are far apart and it’s a rural area. So when we talk about Maple you might hear the word “district” or “school” and we’re talking about the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Covid drove a wedge on a lot of school campuses across the nation, the parents versus the school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was easy for students to stay home when we started to roll back in, because there was a fear attached to COVID.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many students at Maple found returning to school challenging.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was kind of tricky coming back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>Students like Dallas, an eighth grader.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dallas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then you have to interact with people and, and then also you’re like, learning online isn’t like learning in school. So whenever you went back to school, it was a way different, like, environment and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel, a third grader, faced a similar situation. His parents were hesitant to send him back to school immediately after it reopened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was one of the kids, like, took forever to get from, like, virtually to class to, like, here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Niki noticed students’ attendance starting to lag, she started gathering all the information she could on chronic absenteeism. She did not like what she found.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The absenteeism was hurting our children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki was not the only educator seeing attendance at her school plummet. Stanford economist Tom Dee has been doing research on the increase in chronic absenteeism across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Literally every state for which we had data available – that was nearly all of them – saw substantial increases in chronic absenteeism.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to Tom, states that kept schools closed for a long time during the 2020-21 school year tended to experience the highest rates of absenteeism later on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, that rate of chronic absenteeism was around 14% or so, 15%, and it nearly doubled in the 21-22 school year, which was the year when virtually all our kids returned to in-person instruction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In California, where Maple is, chronic absenteeism went from 12% before the pandemic to 30% in the years after. Even though we’re getting further away from the pandemic in terms of time, things have not improved for a lot of schools.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tom Dee:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For many schools, their capacity to address these issues is diminishing, because right now the federal financial support that was available to them during the pandemic is beginning to expire.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I believe that children excel when they’re on a school campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Niki again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>I believe they excel academically, but also socially, emotionally and mentally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because when a child is on campus, they’re learning to engage with peers, they’re learning to engage with adults. And the social socialization part of school is very rewarding in a young person’s life and in a child’s life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki recognized the need for intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If a child doesn’t want to come to school, that’s a red flag for me. Tell me why. Are you nervous? Is somebody hurting your feelings. Are you being bullied? Do you not understand the assignments and are you getting behind and are you scared? Is something happening at home? See if attendance is monitored and watched in Can help us help children in all other areas of their lives.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luckily, one research paper Niki found provided solutions that she could use immediately. We’ll get into her next steps after the break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In her quest to find solutions to chronic absenteeism, Niki Espinoza came across a study by a group of researchers, including Carly Robinson. Carly is currently a researcher at Stanford University’s Graduation School of Education.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In general, I focus on how we can use the various people in children’s lives to improve their outcomes. So, really, how does social support impact students success? Both in terms of their achievement, but also in terms of their well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The research revealed something that many parents might not be aware that consistent attendance in grades K-5 is extremely important.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people think of a chronically absent student, they think of, you know, students skipping class often, students that are in middle and high school, but in reality, students start being chronically absent as early as kindergarten and we see that students who are absent more in these early grades tend to have much lower academic achievement in third, fourth, fifth grade and, and beyond. And so one really important point is that the biggest predictor of whether a students is going to be chronically absent is their absences from the prior school year. And so these absences just compound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something else Carly surfaced in her research is that when parents are asked how many days of school their child has missed, they are usually a little off. Actually they are kind of off by a lot.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents often underestimate absences by about 50%. So, let’s say my child has missed 20 days of school. If you ask me how many days I think my child has missed, I’m saying about ten days of school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not that the parents are being neglectful. It’s just really hard to keep track of numbers like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s often not presented to them by the school \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">until they see it on report cards or at the end of the year. And so you’re not necessarily, you know, motivated to intervene if you don’t think there’s a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In order to address the fact that parents might not know how much school their kid is missing,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly and the other researchers designed an intervention that would give parents information that was both timely and accurate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so what we ended up doing was sending a series of mailers with information on how many days of school their child had missed to date, and also link absenteeism with sort of negative outcomes. So highlighting that absences actually can add up to have negative implications for your child’s learning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right. Snail mail turned out to be an effective intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Carly Robinson:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We did send them in the families home language. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">he mailers tended to have a pretty consistent effect across different populations of students. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hey were quite responsive to when their parents received these mailers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Niki – the community school coordinator at Maple – read this study and felt energized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I created two postcards. One that says, “We’ve missed you. We want you back at school” and “Your child is actually missed 20 days.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Carly’s study proved accurate. Niki found that parents did not know how many days their kid was absent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I called a parent, Nimah and said, “Do you know how many days your son has missed?” They will not know. So why are we as schools holding them to accountable, um, information that they don’t know. Why are we holding them accountable? That’s not fair.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They also didn’t know what those absences meant for their child. So she went all in on educating parents by taking her attendance campaign to social media.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I started to push out fliers through Instagram, Facebook, through our remind messaging app, that gets a text message to our parents. Nothing was on it but true attendance facts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These facts were showing up once a week across all of Maple’s social feeds.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Facts like…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>C\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hronic absenteeism is associated with lower academic performance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>S\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tudents who are chronically absent in early grades are less likely to reach important learning milestones.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Chronic absenteeism can be a better indicator of whether a student will drop out than test scores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The postcards are not punitive. They’re not to shame. They’re there to say, “Hey, we love your kid. Attendance matters. We miss them.” In fact it says, “We miss you student. Let me help you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki took a proactive approach by informing parents about their child’s absences before they reached chronic levels. She provided this information under the assumption that parents always want what is best for their child.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The number of students who were chronically absent started to decrease almost immediately.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We started seeing kids come back to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Niki’s first batch of mailers she sent over 70 in 2021. That’s nearly a third of students. The following quarter she only needed to send 20.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Maple’s success isn’t just about sending mailers. Niki and her team adopted a holistic approach by getting to the bottom of what is keeping kids from coming to school. Niki started with talking to parents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Begin to call and say, “Hey, I miss so-and-so, you know? Or how are they feeling? Or are they coming back?” Are they nervous to come back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were conversations of fear. They were conversations of my child feels like they’re so behind they don’t want to go back. And I had to address those. And I spoke to the teachers and I spoke to my admin, and I said, “Hey, we got to all be on the same page. We got to show these kids that we’re going to help you get caught up. We’re going to be there for you.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Do you remember the third grader we heard from, Noel? When he returned to school, the thing that he was dreading the most was math.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I didn’t know any multiplication at all. Division too. I didn’t know any division. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to catch up on a bunch of stuff!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even though Noel was a bit overwhelmed coming back he felt really supported in getting back on track. Part of the reason for that is he received extra support. Students who need it are taken out of classes to get more focused help.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Noel:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If I needed help, they’d come help me, explained it to me and then gave me worksheets catch up on multiple occasions and I just do like extra multiplication to, like, catch up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Noel’s concerns were academic,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> but the primary causes of chronic absenteeism are homelessness, health problems, and family responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In order take on these barriers, Maple uses the community school model.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That means bringing the services and resources families need onto the school campus. The wraparound services Maple has on campus include school psychologists, food pantries and housing services. Local organizations and businesses are a big part of how this small district is able to support students beyond academics. There is only one small hold up for this particular school district…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our districts are separated by miles and miles of farmland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Michael Figueroa. He grew up in the Central Valley and now he’s an education consultant that works with school districts in the region.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s really very few nonprofits, if any, that support our specific region or area.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by nature of where the kids live, they have less access to resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To address this, Michael helped Maple and 5 neighboring rural school districts band together to form a community school consortium. That way they can pool resources.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For example the consortium collectively hired a social worker who serves multiple districts at once to save money. By doing this, the social worker gets a full-time salary, which is a good motivator for them. And since the districts in the consortium share the costs, they can afford to pay for a full-time social worker together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Figueroa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> By putting resources together, we’re just trying to get even a fraction of what schools 20 miles, 30 miles down the road just get without any supplemental funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Being a small school in a rural area come with it’s challenges and opportunities. It sometimes hard to find the services they need, but their tight relationships with students ensure that they can identify students who needs the services it the most. For example, Ayden, an 8th grader who missed several days of school after a devastating loss.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I missed like a whole week because my great grandpa passed away. This, I think it was like two months ago now. And I just really loved him, so I just, I felt like I didn’t want to go to school.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza: \u003c/b>W\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">e’re here to offer services. We’re here to offer referrals, to get help. We’re here to say we’re here for your family. And that’s really the heart of the matter. That’s how we started looking at it, is let us educate. Let us equip you. No judgments, zero judgments. Tell me what’s going on. Zero judgments. Let’s help your kid.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Niki’s snail mail campaign coupled with Maple’s community school model has not only reduced chronic absenteeism but it also addressed underlying issues affecting student attendance.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The cherry on top is that Maple also does a great job of making coming to school really appealing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Niki Espinoza:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A community school will not thrive if there isn’t engagement between the parents, guardians, caregivers, and the school. And that is why we work so hard with doing community engagement and having events on campus where we welcome the community on campus.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They purposefully build community beyond the classroom. Ayden told me that there are fun carnival-like events a few times a year that give students an opportunity to build connections with teachers and other kids who may not be in their grade.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You’re thinking about school, you’re thinking about staying in the classroom, not doing anything but Maple is a lot different because, like, it’s more outgoing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a very loving school. Like, you know, everyone here, especially me, I’m like friends with like, the littlest kids.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Students have a positive touch point with a teacher or staff person every day because they are excitedly greeted by staff each morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ayden\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Maple is a school that you don’t want to miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode could not have been made with out Julie Boesch, Michael Figueroa, Niki Espinoza, Tom Dee, Carly Robinson, Bryan Easter, Patty De Julian, Nick Aguirre, Christian Brown and staff at Maple School District. Thank you to the students at Maple: Ayden, Nehemiah, Dallas, Noel and Teegan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’re interested in hearing more about how the community school model supports students, listen to our episode titled “How Community Schools Can Support Teachers and Families.” It features a school that created a homeless shelter on their school grounds.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ll have more community schools episodes coming down the pipeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The MindShift team includes me, Nimah Gobir, Ki Sung, Kara Newhouse, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Jennifer Ng. Carlos Cabrera Lomeli provided additional reporting. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. We receive additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldaña and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the Stuart Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. And members of KQED. Thank you for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
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"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
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},
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"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareportmagazine",
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"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
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},
"city-arts": {
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"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"order": 1
},
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"meta": {
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/3zxy",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC2275451163"
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"
}
},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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"source": "wnyc"
},
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