Have You Navigated a ‘Quiet Divorce?’

Some marriages don’t end with a blowup or betrayal. Instead, partners slowly become emotionally disconnected – more like roommates than lovers. It’s a phenomenon that’s been dubbed a “quiet divorce.” We talk with psychologists Thema Bryant and Eli Finkel about why relationships quietly come undone, how to rebuild connection and when it may be time to let go.

Guests:

• Eli Finkel, professor of psychology, Northwestern University; host, “Love Factually” podcast; author, “The All-or-Nothing Marriage: How the Bes Marriages Work”
• Dr. Thema Bryant, psychologist and author, “Matters of the Heart”

This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.

Mina Kim: Welcome to Forum, I’m Mina Kim. You’ve likely heard of quiet quitting, when it was all over social media, advocating for workers to do just the bare minimum in their jobs and focus on themselves instead. Now it seems applying that to romantic relationships is catching fire. Quiet divorcing is not ending the marriage legally, but emotionally disconnecting from it until lovers become more like roommates. And this hour we’ll look at why the phenomenon, while not new, is showing up these days on social media and the web.

Joining me first is psychologist Thema Bryant, who goes by Dr. Thema. She’s also author of Matters of the Heart. Welcome to Forum, Dr. Thema.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Oh, so good to be here. Thank you for covering this important topic.

Mina Kim: Well, so glad to be covering it with you. How would you, Dr. Thema, define quiet divorce?

Dr. Thema Bryant: Quiet divorce is when we remain physically present, legally present, but emotionally absent. So we have checked out, and it could be that both people are engaging in it, or it could be one person in the couple.

Mina Kim: So what does it look like in a relationship? What tend to be the signs that a couple is in a quiet divorce?

Dr. Thema Bryant: When they are going through the motions of living together, functioning, getting things done that need to be done, perhaps around parenting or paying the bills, but there is a lack of emotional intimacy, sometimes, and usually also physical and sexual intimacy. And so they may function more as roommates. Some people aren’t even speaking anymore. So they may live in the same house but are not really engaging with each other. So maybe even in different rooms, like roommates?

They could be in different rooms, but they could also show up for each other. There are a range. So some couples really have turned into friends. There’s not a romantic aspect to it. And then some really are disconnected from each other and don’t do much at all together.

Mina Kim: Yeah, it sounds like you’re describing that it can be more of like a logistical relationship, or that the partners can be living together under the same roof, but maybe parallel lives as opposed to sort of intersecting lives.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Absolutely. So there is not that level of active nourishment, being able to enjoy each other, being able to share on a deep level. So it has become very surface for any number of reasons.

Mina Kim: Yeah. I think you’re starting to answer my next question, which is what can lead people to the point where they’re disconnecting like that?

Dr. Thema Bryant: Yes. So sometimes people associate the home responsibilities with too much tension, too much drama, too much friction. And so, especially if you’re an avoidant person, avoiding conflict, avoiding difficult conversations, then engaging with this person feels like it’s gonna be too intense, or you don’t feel you have the capacity for it or the desire for it, or don’t feel like there is a payoff to it.

And so the shutting down. So avoidance can lead to it, also resentment and unresolved issues. So there could have been an attempt to address some of the conflict and then a person didn’t feel heard, likely multiple times, and so stopped trying. So this idea of it’s not worth it, even if I express myself or even if we have this level of deep conversation, nothing’s going to change, or this person isn’t going to. And so now I want to protect myself.

A person may feel like, I am tired of being disappointed, tired of getting frustrated. So in an attempt to prevent, in their minds, I’m going to prevent further disappointment and frustration by protecting my heart, by disconnecting in that way. Sometimes that involves people who are looking for connection outside of the relationship and sometimes not. Yeah.

Mina Kim: It sounds like you’re almost — I’m so struck by the word protection — so it’s almost like this sort of self-preservation.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Yes, yeah. It may feel like this is not a nourishing place for me, it’s not a fulfilling place for me, it’s a safe place for me. Usually, when I say safe in this way, I’m meaning emotionally. And so if I don’t enjoy it anymore, but for any number of reasons I have a barrier to leaving, then I will remain physically there and legally in it, but have already withdrawn.

Mina Kim: Well, Noelle writes on Discord, and let me invite listeners into the conversation. Do you think you might be in a quiet divorce or have questions about what it is? Have you been in one that led to a breakup or actual divorce, or for someone close to you, how did you know it was time to call it quits? And why do you think quiet divorce is resonating today?

You can email [email protected], find us on Discord, Bluesky, Facebook and Instagram at KQED Forum, or call us at 866-733-6786, 866-733-6786.

Noelle writes, “Many still live together due to economic constraints these days.” So Dr. Thema, why might people decide they can still exist in this space, stay married, right, but exist in the quiet divorce space? What can it offer?

Dr. Thema Bryant: So there can be familiarity. Some people are anxious, understandably, about the unknown. So even though this isn’t fulfilling for me, from what they hear from those who are outside in the dating world, they may feel like there’s not a lot that I would receive out there. So at least whatever I’m getting in here, I know it, I’m familiar with it. And I’ve adapted to it, that in some ways I’ve made peace with the parts that are missing, and I’m willing to live my life without those components.

Or part of me may have hope that down the road things could change. But for now, you know, I have my person. This person knows me. I know them.

And then you mentioned the financial piece, and I do want to say, for some people from religious communities, there can be a spiritual peace, of them saying, I promise God I would stay, and so I’m gonna honor the covenant and stay.

Mina Kim: Yeah, so not every person has the financial freedom to walk away, as you say, and then there’s also the cultural expectations of not getting a divorce. I also read in one article that they describe quiet divorce as almost a bridge between what they cannot leave and what they can no longer keep doing.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Yes, that it becomes the compromise, right? I can’t leave, but I also cannot keep putting myself through perhaps the emotional gymnastics of engaging with this person. And so I am present but absent, and that may feel like, for some people, the only solution.

Mina Kim: Yeah. Rishi adds on Discord, “People also stay married due to factors like immigration and health insurance.”

If the slow burn of a relationship, right, as I noted in the intro, isn’t new, why, Dr. Thema, do you think the quiet divorce phenomenon has gone viral recently? Why do you think that term is resonating with a lot of people?

Dr. Thema Bryant: I think it goes with us living in an era where people are more transparent and honest, including with strangers. So the gift of social media, gift or curse, is people use it in the way that older generations would use a journal or use prayer. So people would write about it, they would pray about it. They may tell it to their best friend, but never tell anyone else.

And now we’re in a season where people share kind of their innermost thoughts and feelings with the world. So I think the existence of it is not new, but the speaking about it openly is more new.

Mina Kim: Again, we’re talking this hour about quiet divorces, when couples stay together but become emotionally distant, more like roommates than lovers. And we’re talking about it with Dr. Thema Bryant, a psychologist and author of the book Matters of the Heart, and with you, our listeners, at 866-733-6786, on our social channels, Discord, Bluesky, Facebook, or Instagram, and at the email address [email protected].

And let me remind listeners, you are listening to Forum. I’m Mina Kim. Let me go to caller Thomas in Santa Rosa. Thomas, go ahead. You’re on.

Caller: Yes, yes, good morning. So when I heard this program coming on, this is a new term that I’ve been hearing. And also, on top of it, a new term that I heard is gray divorce. And where people are, you know, in my case, in a situation with my spouse, we’ve been together for 35 years, married, and longer than that before.

And at some point after the kids were born, and the one thing that I recall coming in between the conventional marriage was that the kids, you know, started sleeping in the bed and I was in a different room. I never left that other room. I never, you know, came back to… You know, we still continue to have a relationship that way. However, it starts there.

And then what happens in my case is we just became so nonconfrontational. We didn’t want to go into areas that were uncomfortable. And so we avoided them. And the avoidance was what kind of separated it out.

And we are still living together. We have separated and we continue to live together because we know each other. It doesn’t matter. It’s very amicable. So that’s the part that’s, you know, it almost, at some point, you give up the things that you always wanted, the sexual things. It’s all gone. At this point, at 65, this is great.

Mina Kim: Thomas, I so appreciate you sharing that story because it underscores so much, Dr. Thema, what you have been describing that can lead to that, but also why people, you know, might stay in it.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Right. Absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing that, even the role that parenting plays, that sometimes people pour into their children but may neglect the relationship. And then when the kids get older, it’s looking like, well, you know, what do we have? What do we still have together? And can we even reconnect?

And what I have found with couples is often both people have tried, but not at the same time. So one person may have been pursuing and the other was stepping away. So it’s really important to be—

Mina Kim: Engaging in the investment or the trying together simultaneously, it sounds like.

Dr. Thema Bryant: Yes, yes.

Mina Kim: We’re talking about the phenomenon of quiet divorce. While not new, the term seems to be resonating with people, and we’re talking about why with Dr. Thema and with you, our listeners. Stay with us for more after the break. You’re listening to Forum. I’m Mina Kim.