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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: After this episode first aired on April 2, 2024, CDCR finally located Valentino Rodriguez’s supplemental report about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar that we reference in this episode. Their public records team was initially unable to find it. However, the agency said the report was exempt from disclosure.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5469603434\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes descriptions of violence and references a homicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, is it powered on? Can you hear it going? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the day after Julie and I met with our confidential source, and we’re back in the office with our editor, Victoria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not, it’s not reading it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re absolutely reeling from what we’ve been given: memos, internal prison emails, and these video CDs that have Sergeant Kevin Steele’s own handwriting on them. It’s key evidence that Steele had saved, according to our source, both to protect himself and because he’d become so concerned that his own law enforcement agency might try to destroy it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But wait, did you put a disc in it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Try putting a disc in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wouldn’t do anything? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it was just dead. Right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, the most important videos won’t play. It turns out to watch the practice run and the homicide, we need some special software. So, Julie, Victoria and I huddle in front of Julie’s computer and we try another disc: the one labeled “Taylor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So let’s try-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is reading it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s try Taylor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Wait, hold on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh Lord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we find out that Cody Taylor, the guy who was so afraid of having this interview come out, is the one who started almost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. This is Sergeant Steele in the room. It is now about almost 8:30 on Friday, July the third. I’m also in the room with inmate Taylor. Is that your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The video opens with a familiar scene: Steele holding up his black military watch to the camera to record the time. At this point, it’s been almost seven months since the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. Taylor has already pled guilty to the murder and taken his 102 year sentence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I came in here, I told you what we were gonna talk about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let me itemize that. We’re gonna talk about a letter that you sent. We’re gonna talk about some things that you know, and we’re also gonna talk about some things that you’ve noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, correct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and also you asked me before I started recording, you said, “Hey, I wanna tell you the real reason why I’m here.” Did you not say that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele reads Taylor his rights as he sits in a cage about the size of a phone booth. He’s a white guy wearing a sleeveless undershirt. You can see a large tattoo of a woman’s face in the center of his upper chest, and another tattoo that’s harder to make out snaking down the left side of his face. Steele holds up a handwritten document to the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And my signature.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s undated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele has been asked by his boss, a lieutenant in the ISU, to find out more about this letter — this letter that Cody Taylor sent to the warden of New Folsom Prison, making some pretty big allegations. Allegations that up until now, Taylor says he’s kept quiet about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…speculations. I just never, you know, I’ve never admitted it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just used the word “admitted it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that you’ve always known that there are things that are unknown-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unknown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or in the shadows. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, of course. Of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what you’re saying is, you know that you have direct information to validate those- that speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have direct information. If, if the video evidence is still there, that’s more than enough on both occasions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, we go back inside the day room one final time. To look at what this video evidence shows about the claims of each of the murderers. To find out how Steele had looked at this case, and if his obsession had gone too far. And to ask who should answer for the death of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Musical break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get further into this evidence, I just wanted to let you know that KQED agreed to pay some costs so the confidential source could bring us these materials. It’s not something we usually do, but in this case, we decided it was appropriate. We needed to safeguard the evidence, protect our source, and finish our investigation in time. Now let’s get back to Steele’s interview with Cody Taylor about the letter he sent, which was addressed to Warden Jeff Lynch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or do you need to look at it again to review it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I, I, I pretty much know what it’s about. Um, would you like me to summarize it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele he sent this letter because he’s fed up with how he’s been treated since the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cell search daily, which isn’t policy. Um, you know, the little bit of property I do have, you know, um, destroyed on a daily basis. Uh, personal, uh, hygiene and, and food items spread out sometimes — it’s happened twice. Um, shoe prints on my bed, the list goes on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he thinks it’s retaliation — that the murder made the prison look bad. And he says there’s been a lot of speculation about officers lending them a helping hand, which he is now ready to talk about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be willing to take a lie detector test. Um, ’cause everything that I’m saying and have said in that letter is 1000% honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor explains, going back to the assault on Michael Britt two months before the murder, they had an understanding with the officers in the unit. Britt, if you remember, was Dion Green’s enemy, who he’d already tried to kill at a different prison once before. Yet prison officials put Britt and Green in the same housing section and let them all have day room together \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While walking out, the sergeant and the lieutenant said, “Hey man, you’re on your own, cuz. Have fun with these guys.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They said that to Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Said that to Britt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by them saying that, are you, is your inference that they knew what was about to happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, because the sergeant asked me if this could not happen today because he’s trying to go home. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant said, could this not happen today because he’s going home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I said, it’s only business, big dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says the officers let them carry on with their business: attacking Michael Britt. Just a side note, we didn’t get a video of the Britt incident, so it’s the one that’s the hardest to analyze, but we were leaked some still images that show Taylor and Rodriguez stabbing Britt as Green looks on from a nearby chair. A still image taken a minute and a half later shows the two attackers standing in the middle of the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reports say the control booth officer shot those foam batons, but he didn’t use lethal force. Then about eight weeks after they tried to kill Britt, there was the practice run. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We tested everything out a week prior. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele how he was in the day room, got out of his cuffs, slipped the black boxes, ran up the stairs, got the knives from Dion Green’s cell, and came back down. All of which the tower officer saw, but didn’t do anything about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do you know that they knew that you had weapons? How would you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, not necessarily weapons, but he asked me what I went up there and grabbed. When he opened up the thing, he’s like, “Why’d you do that? Why’d you go up there and grab it?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’d you tell him? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “Man, just relax. It’s all good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He goes-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially, Taylor says the plan was to murder Aguilar that day — the day of the practice run. They knew he’d have to walk through the day room on his way back from a morning group, but ultimately he and Anthony Rodriguez decided to wait until a later day — a day when they could get him in the day room alone, not under an officer escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, just outta respect for the staff because they were, you know, looking out for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele asks Taylor about one of those ways that staff was supposedly looking out for them, that Taylor talked about in his letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You said, and I I’m gonna quote you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It says, “Keys were given to us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keys were given to you by who?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Real keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real cuff. Cuff keys.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real long cuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not homemade, not manufacturer keys. They’re the real deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Broken off handcuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele later interviewed a different man who’d been in the B8 unit. This guy told him that, “Everyone knew the cops were working with those guys, they could run around without getting shot.” And he told Steele that cops had given Green a real cuff key and that it was being used to make copies. In the video with Steele, Taylor says, the day of the murder where they went after Luis Giovanny Aguilar, staff once again, knew what was gonna happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this. Not only all staff knew, but cer- I believe certain staff left the buildings ’cause they didn’t want to be involved, I believe. Because they were transferring to another institution and they were like, “Hey man, we’re I’m this, this my up my transfer. I’m not trying to be involved.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when you say transfer, ’cause they’re trying to transfer to Mule Creek?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mule Creek Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had told me that just right before this today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right before. And he goes, “I’m not gonna be involved because,” um… Or no, “I couldn’t be involved in the fun because I’m trying to get a transfer.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those details in Taylor’s story that to me has the granularity and messiness of truth. It’s such an odd thing to make up, and it’s something that Steele was later able to confirm. Two officers in the unit had transferred to Mule Creek State Prison shortly after. Steele continues going over the letter and Taylor explains how they’d also made this agreement with officers not to double lock their cuffs so that they could get out of the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele to go back and look at the video of the murder. While he says he hasn’t seen it himself, he thinks a moment was caught on tape that will prove his point. As they were going through the security protocol at his cell door, the officer who was cuffing him made a mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m coming outta my door and he accidentally double locks my right foot. That being said, my left lock is p- is still not double locked. Um, but my right one is. I look, I look to the right and I tell him, “Hey, you fucked up. That shit is double locked.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor claims the officer kneeled down outside his door and undid the double lock on his right ankle cuff. But Taylor says the day of the murder, they did have one new factor to worry about. They didn’t know the guy in the control booth or tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve already had these conversations with the previous tower with Britt. Everything was good. He wasn’t gonna kill us. Right? But there was a new cop in there. So I made sure I said, look man, you know, we’re half-ass doing you guys a favor. You know, this guy assaulted you and shit. You know, we have our own- word for word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have our own reasons too, but can you make sure, uh, your tower doesn’t kill us? He goes, um, I don’t really know him, but I’m gonna talk to him right now. You should be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor had told me a lot of the same things that he told Steele. Some of these details I didn’t include in the last episode because I couldn’t verify them. Like the officers trying to transfer, or the supposed footage of an officer kneeling down at his door. But now that we had these memos and videos, these were things we could check. Near the end of the tape, Steele brings the conversation back to Taylor’s motivation for sending his letter to the warden. What does he hope to get out of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The real reason, the impetus, the reason that you wrote this is, again, about your housing placement, the treatment, and the fact that you, your, your real longing is to go to Salinas Valley unencumbered with anything from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just want to move on. I just, you know, I feel that I took one on the chin. You know, I-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This appears to be what he’s proposing. He’ll continue to keep quiet about officers’ involvement in the murder in exchange for suspending his solitary confinement, or SHU term, and transferring him to Salinas Valley State Prison where he says he’ll be safer with members of his own gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to move all this behind me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and start over right there. Um, but I feel that I shouldn’t remain in the SHU, be treated as I’m being treated. And, and after, you know what? Initially, hey, I, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody. And, and I’m, if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he doesn’t want anything, money or anything else, and he says he’ll even sign a non-disclosure agreement if that would help. Because his point is not to get staff in trouble. If he wanted to do that, he’d have gone about this in a totally different way. He’d have filed a formal complaint, told his family who worked in law enforcement or called the press. But he wanted to see if he could work this out directly with the warden. So he sent that letter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My co-defendants don’t even know about that letter. Nobody knows about that letter besides me. My co-defendants- I don’t speak to Mr. Green no more, but Rodriguez doesn’t even know about that letter. Nobody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Taylor says he’s at a boiling point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you fools didn’t even do an investigat- Excuse me, I don’t know that, but I’m just assuming you guys didn’t even do an investigation into your officers. They might have been redirected, but I’m sure nobody’s gotten fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a coverup in itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor is right about one thing, at the time of this interview. From what we can see, Internal Affairs hasn’t started investigating this incident and no one has been fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who do you want to see this video? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I’m gonna go ahead and conclude. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not totally clear to me what to make of Taylor’s motives here. Okay, so he’s not trying to get out of criminal charges, but does he really believe he’s going to strike a deal with the warden? And if so, why turn to Kevin Steele — a rule follower — to be his blackmail delivery guy? On the other hand, if he’s just lying to stir up shit for officers, what does he hope to get out of it? An investigation that’s only gonna bring a whole bunch more scrutiny and danger down on him? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I have another question about this interview from the prison’s side of things. Why was Steele the one assigned to do it in the first place? There were clearly already rumors going around about this murder among witnesses in the unit. A different letter alleging it was a setup had already been mailed to the District Attorney’s office within weeks of the murder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you’re the warden, why assign this to someone in-house? For simple optics reasons, it seems like getting headquarters to review would be the cleanest course of action. CDCR says they cannot comment on this case, and that it’s part of an ongoing investigation involving outside law enforcement. But whatever the warden thought he was doing by sending Steele in to do this interview, and whatever Taylor thought he was doing walking into this interview, those choices start a chain reaction that likely neither prison officials nor Cody Taylor wanted. An investigation that winds up in the lap of the FBI and a lawsuit brought against prison officials by the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens next in the chain reaction set off by Taylor’s letter is that Steele wants to find corroboration. After that first interview with Taylor, in emails to his bosses, including the warden, Steele shares what he’s uncovering. He sounds activated and eager to move on Taylor’s claims. He says he’s already talked to Green about some of these issues with the murder, and he asks permission to try and talk to Anthony Rodriguez, the third murder suspect who took part in the stabbing with Taylor. It doesn’t appear that Anthony Rodriguez ever agreed to that, but someone else did agree to go on tape with Steele. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead and introduce yourself please.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Green J22161. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this video, Dion Green is now the one in the cage and Steele starts off the same as he did with Taylor by noting the time and date. It’s July 17th, 2020, and reading him his rights. This is Steele’s first recorded interview with Green, but he acknowledges that they have talked about the murder before while handling stuff for court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in a roundabout way, you told me that it would’ve never happened had staff not participated in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we listened in on this interview, hoping to understand this next phase of Steele’s investigation, and what Green had said to Steele that had convinced him that officers had a hand in the murder, we realized that many of those conversations had already happened off camera, and this set up a very odd dynamic in this interview. For example, Steele brings out a pair of handcuffs to get Green to demonstrate the double locking mechanism, but it’s clear this is a replay for the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I brought these very same cuffs down last week and I asked you a simple question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember that question? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked you whether I can get these cuffs open if they’re double locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele double locks the cuffs and hands Green, a flat metal shim. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you get those open with that shim? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I already know that I can’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In case you missed that, he says, “I already know that I can’t.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green is very soft spoken throughout this interview. He says he sometimes hesitates because he has Parkinson’s and because going on the record is dangerous. Steele, meanwhile, is a man in constant motion. A man now animated by this mission to find the truth about this murder. And what these two very different styles lead to are these exchanges where Green hesitates, and instead of waiting for him to respond, Steele jumps in — helping him and clearly leading him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would think that you guys making the weapons and cutting the- the desks, it would seem to me that that would require a lot of effort on your part. It would make a lot of noise. And possibly it would require some extra stuff that maybe you don’t have access to. What do you think on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, of course, I mean-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele brings up the noise of making the weapons and Green picks up on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to be able to hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scraping, you mean the grinding or-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Verbal scraping noise] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">you know, the, you know, you’ve seen the weapons that was used. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the way I ran this by an officer who said that on its own, this isn’t a credible piece of evidence. A lot of these units are really loud and the sound of making the weapons could easily be missed by officers. But Steele doesn’t push back or point out how noisy the unit is. It seems like he just accepts what Green’s saying and moves on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was there any, any um, extra things that were provided to enable you to cut the, the Steele from the desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, only way when we can get or use… they provided, and that was the clipper heads and stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re talking about the tool used to make the knives the head of a hair clipper. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say they, who are you talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staff brought you clipper heads? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To your cell? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, it’s like Steele already knows the answers he’s looking for. Clearly they have talked about this before. Now that’s likely part of why Steele is asking these questions like this: to prompt a reluctant witness to share things he’s said before, but now to do it for the record. But the end result is that there are these huge moments where it feels like Steele is testifying himself rather than eliciting answers from Green. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I’m understanding you, you’re saying if it can happen to Aguilar, it can happen to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course. Absolutely. Absolutely. At any time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taken a step further, you’re saying that staff could facilitate you being in the wrong place at the wrong time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we watched this recording, I was also listening for things that Green had told me, which you heard about last episode. But Green does not mention Aguilar being a child molester or that the killing was ordered by the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit, Eric Baker. He doesn’t say anything about the drugs he told me that an officer brought to his cell to give to Taylor and Rodriguez’s payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that Green tells Steele first is actually the closest to how Taylor and Rodriguez have described the incident. Not a hit ordered by the officers, but an assault that they facilitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We could not have killed this man. He would be alive today if it wasn’t for the, the assistance and the help of your staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He tells Steele that officers agreed to make Aguilar — who was associated with an enemy gang, who was known to be disrespectful and assault staff — available to them in the ways we’ve talked about before. There’d be no kill shot and no double locking the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think there’s a possibility that the officer made a mistake twice when he, when he didn’t double lock those cuffs?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not no damn mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not a mistake. Not twice in a row? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not. You, you are a professional.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your job-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you don’t think it’s a mistake or an oversight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With, with with, with us… the caliber of men that we are… I go back to this: the caliber men- of who I am and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. We are. So to not secure us… to not secure us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, Steele asks Green if there’s anything he’d like to say to the people who this video is for: the warden and the chief deputy warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What would you wanna say to them? If anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green rocks forward in his seat slightly. There’s a little open slot in the side of the cage that he peers through to look into the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, um, I’m asking for my safety. My livelihood is, you know, I’m asking for, you know, to be placed nowhere in the state of California. Nowhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this interview, Steele and Green will record at least three more interviews. Unfortunately, we don’t have all those recordings, but we do know that Steele came to believe much of Green’s story. And I think part of that is because he began to feel responsible for him. At the very, very beginning of this first video, Steele starts the tape rolling while Green is in the middle of saying something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just want me just to take your word? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele puts his word on the line to convince Green to put his life on the line. And even if Green’s motives aren’t pure, that danger is real. In the months to come, confidential information about Green’s testimony and Taylor’s letter is leaked out to officers and word spreads that he talked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That I’m a whistleblower rat for ex- exposing this ongoing corruption of staff and that I need to be taken out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a clip from one of those later interviews that we did get. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say calling you a whistleblower, when, what does that term mean to you? Whistleblower?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, whistleblower to me means- okay in terms of, you know, uh, Snowden, you know Snowden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edward Snowden who leaked secrets about the NSA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it can take on a bad connotation sometimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it is again, a government program intended to expose corruption. That’s what it’s designed for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he’s being called this for a different reason.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The purpose is only one purpose. That purpose is to get me hurt very badly. To get me killed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming across this exchange was such a meta moment for me. These two men discussing the meaning of the term “whistleblower,” the term that came to define Sergeant Kevin Steele, but did not protect him. And the term that has marked Dion Green as well. While it’s possible that Steele got too close to Green to see him clearly, Green’s testimony is not the only evidence Steele had to go on. Now it is not the only evidence that we have to go on either. We finally did figure out how to play the surveillance videos of Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s murder and the practice run, and we found an expert to help us decode them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to start by having Julie show you the video of what has been called the Practice Run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A couple weeks after we got these videos and memos about the Aguilar homicide, we met up with another confidential source. I was on Zoom and Julie was in the studio. This man is a retired sergeant who knows a lot about internal affairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is just- Yeah, the practice run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there’s no sound. You know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He watches it play. The video leaked to us is pretty short. Four minutes and 22 seconds. When it starts, Taylor and Rodriguez are already sitting at the individual desks in the day room. Rodriguez is on the left and Taylor is on the right. You don’t see how Taylor escapes his restraints because when the video starts, he’s clearly already gotten out of the handcuffs, which are supposed to be attached to a chain around his waist, and the ankle shackles that are supposed to be fixing him to the chair. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor sweeps his right leg out to shake off the ankle chain and then runs around the desk and up the stairs leading to Green’s cell. He kind of trips at the top of the stairs, recovers, and then grabs something — the knives — from under the door. He tucks them into the open front of his white prison jumpsuit. As he runs back down the stairs, he adjusts the knives in his waistband and then sits back down in his chair. Anthony Rodriguez gives him a big smile and kind of bounces up and down in his seat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor starts putting his restraints back on. The first time watching it through, the sergeant is pretty unconvinced that staff would’ve necessarily noticed the action in the unit. Just a note, this sergeant didn’t want us to use his voice. So the voice you’re gonna hear is actually one of our colleagues repeating exactly what the confidential source said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you watch the inmates, one of them is clearly the lookout. So if staff are involved, why is he so intent on identifying whether or not staff are in the picture, whether or not staff are coming?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says if the control booth officer was paying attention the way they were supposed to, these guys shouldn’t have been able to do this. But he said that complicity is not the only explanation for the security failure. It could also be laziness or incompetence, but he wants to see it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This time we ask him to check out these two moments that happen at the very edge of what the camera captures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the moments where you can see staff interacting with Taylor and Rodriguez. Taylor has just sat back down in his chair and he’s starting to get his restraints back on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s somebody that comes to the window of the rotunda, which you can also see in the video. Let’s see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie plays the first clip where an officer appears at the window of the rotunda. That’s the central area outside the housing section. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what it looks like to me, if I wanna be skeptical, it looks like he’s- so, he’s got his hands on the window and then he goes like \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is like cuffs, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie zooms in so the sergeant can see the officer in the rotunda who looks like he’s holding up two fists next to each other, kind of pantomiming the gesture for cuffs. And Rodriguez holds up his hands showing, yeah, he’s still in restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. He is like, “Look, yeah, I’m good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmhmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer disappears from the window. So maybe he had a question about whether they were in their cuffs or not, but he’s satisfied by what he sees. Then almost as soon as he disappears, another officer steps into view in the control booth. The sergeant starts manipulating the video himself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just zoomed in on the tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He pushes play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh shit, he’s giving hand signals. Do you see his hands? He’s giving hand signals. That’s weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer in the control booth is clearly doing something with his hands. It could be that this guy just talks with his hands a lot. But the sergeant says what’s giving him pause is that hand signals are a common way for incarcerated people to talk to each other on the yard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The problem I have is that there’s clearly a control booth cop up there, somebody up there. And what I really don’t like is how he’s communicating with the inmates. There’s something very familiar about what he’s doing with those inmates. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the tail end of this back and forth, as the control booth officer disappears from view, Taylor adjusts the front of his jumpsuit and then he draws the waist chain of the shackles back over his head. Then he pulls the objects out of his waistband, bends over and slips them in his left sock. In all it takes three and a half minutes for him to put his ankle shackles and his handcuffs back on. The sergeant rewinds the video and watches it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s running up the stairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no way he should have been up the stairs. There’s no way he should have been able to do what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says this video is not the full picture. He wishes he could see what happened in the minutes before it starts and in the minutes after. But he says, bottom line, the video is proof officers did not do what they were supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What should have happened? There should have been a button press. There should have been alarm, there should have been people coming in. They should have been extracted from there. There should be, there’s all kinds of things that should have happened. So do I think he saw the dude was unshackled? A hundred percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This matches Taylor’s version of events: that an officer saw he’d gotten something from Green’s cell, asked him what he was doing, and Taylor told him not to worry about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here’s what stands out to me. If officers had gone in and checked if they’d found the weapons concealed on Taylor’s body and confiscated them, Taylor and Rodriguez would not have had those knives a week later and so may not have been able to go forward with the attack at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, it’s pretty ugly. It’s supposed to be the most secured housing unit in the entire state of California. This is terrible. This is such a disgrace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should I do one camera angle at a time or is it better to do it this way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So do the one, the left hand view where you can see Taylor coming out of his cell first.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next we showed the sergeant the video of the murder itself. When it starts, Luis Giovanny Aguilar is already in the day room. This is something that Taylor, Green and Rodriguez all say was prearranged with officers. A group of three officers approach Taylor cell on the second tier of the housing unit. The officers wave at the control booth to open the cell door and you can see Taylor from behind. He’s in a white prison jumpsuit kneeling with his back to the doorway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should we zoom in? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, if you can. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An officer named Demond Sykes gets down to secure Taylor’s ankle shackles. Sykes reaches for something in his belt and the sergeant explains that’s him going for his keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the only reason he’d be pulling his cuff key is to use the end of the cuff key as the double lock.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The cuffs automatically single lock when you ratchet them closed. To engage the double lock, you have to do one more step: use the end of the cuff key to push this little pin into the side of the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, he’s just double locked him ’cause you see him go to his belt and then come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, as they step out of the cell, Taylor turns to his right and says something to Sykes, the officer who just secured his cuffs. Then Taylor kneels down again this time outside the cell on the tier. I tell the sergeant that this is a moment that Taylor told Steele was evidence that staff were involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says this moment shows they- that accidentally Sykes double locked his right cuff and he came out of his cell and he goes to Sykes, “Are we double locking today?” Because if he’s double locked he can’t get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Sykes gets back down on his knees and goes, “Oops, my bad.” And un-double-locks just the right hand cuffed — the left hand one was not double locked already — and then they proceed with the rest of the escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant rewinds and zooms in comparing the first time Officer Sykes locks the ankle cuffs with the second time he goes down to adjust them. The innocent explanation is that Taylor said the cuffs were too tight and Sykes loosened them. But even so, the cuffs should still have been double locked after loosening them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, it lends more credence and more credit to the fact that he was taking off the double lock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They bring Taylor down the stairs and have him kneel on this chair that’s in the middle of the day room. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why is he on the chair? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers are putting those black boxes on that cover the keyhole of his ankle cuffs. Then they chain him to one of the fixed day room chairs. Next they go through the whole security protocol with Anthony Rodriguez. Put the black boxes on him and chain him to a seat two desks away from Taylor. Then the officers file out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then just, yeah, like watch, watch through for- from there, like them getting out and the kind of choreography of everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Immediately Rodriguez and Taylor start messing with their restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re, they’re looking at the control booth an awful lot. Like, to me they’re looking to see if anybody’s coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It takes almost two minutes for them to get out of their restraints. But again, if someone in the control booth was paying attention, that’s quite a bit of time to miss that these guys are up to something. Then both Taylor and Rodriguez are out. The next moment looks synchronized from the motion of them placing their right hands on the desks, standing up, running up the stairs. This time, Rodriguez is the one who gets something from Green’s cell. Rodriguez comes back down. They both hit the bottom of the staircase with Taylor in front. He kind of steps toward the control booth and the door with this big grin on his face. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s he smiling at?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was someone at the door. They, the, the control booth officer began to open the door as he’s coming down the stairs. So Taylor kind of goes before he has a knife or anything, kind of makes that motion towards the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a key moment that passes in a flash. But it’s important because it’s another opportunity for officers to step in before anything happens. But then, almost as quickly as it opens, the door closes again. Officers do not rush in. Rodriguez hands something to Taylor and they run over and begin stabbing Aguilar. At this point, policy requires that officers act immediately to stop a deadly threat. But they still have to decide how to act based on the situation. What the control booth officer does is fire the first of those foam or rubber projectiles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, a rubber round just came out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the sergeant if this seems late to him, he goes back in and looks at the timestamps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So six seconds between the time the rubber round comes out and do I think that’s late? No. Here’s part of the problem. Part of the problem is that up until they get to him, they’re just out of restraints. And I can promise you that every control cop in the world is gonna sit there and second guess using any sort of force at that point. Because they’re gonna say to you, this is what the department’s gonna say to me. “Where was the threat?” And you’re gonna go, well, they were outta their handcuffs. They were running around the building. “Okay, where was the threat?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says six seconds as a response time is understandable, but what is less understandable is what happens from this point on. The sergeant says even if this officer didn’t have the mini 14 rifle — the deadly force option — slung on his body, which they’re supposed to, it would’ve been close by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He could have very easily grabbed the mini. You can’t make that decision for him. That’s the challenge. You know, if he, I, if I had almost, you know, 20 years in the department, I’d have picked up the mini and unloaded it on those guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But he says that’s him with his experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what he would’ve done. And the same thing for the sergeant standing at the door and the sergeant standing at the door. I saw him making radio calls pretty much immediat- well, immediately while he was there I would’ve gone in a lot sooner than he did. But that’s me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says the officers should have gone in as soon as they had the numbers to go in — at least four officers at the door. On the video, the two men continue to rapidly and repeatedly stab Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like there’s multiple opportunities, you know, to do it. See this guy’s just stabbing him. I put a bullet in him already. I mean he’s clearly making stabbing motions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point they even stop stabbing him, kind of hiding behind the desks and then Taylor eggs on Rodriguez and Rodriguez goes back and continues.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he goes back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like Rodriguez finishes stabbing Aguilar. He stands up with his back to the control booth and Taylor steps forward and lands a last kick on Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When he gets up to kick him. Yeah, he, he gets shot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can see Taylor recoil as he gets hit by one of those foam rounds. Aguilar doesn’t appear to be moving anymore. Rodriguez throws the knife toward the door and lies down on his stomach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If they don’t have an agreement with the officer to not shoot them dead. They have reason to believe that, that at some point during this he likely could \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And should, I mean all things… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, they should be dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watching it, it feels like a long time. As second after second it moves forward to its awful conclusion. But looking at the timestamp from the moment the stabbing itself began until they stopped, it was little more than a minute. After we watch the videos, I ask the sergeant about Taylor’s testimony to Steele. To me, those details he offered are the most compelling evidence I’ve seen so far that officers knew the attack was going to happen, and I wanted to see what he made of Taylor’s motive for coming forward — the deal he was trying to strike with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only, the only person that would think they could get that is someone who’s already worked with dirty staff. That’s the only, that’s the only reason, ’cause he knows it’s gotta be strings pulled. Like, hey, like if he honestly thinks that he did what he did then, then he honestly thinks that he can get that too. So, you know, just, it just leds a whole lot of credibility to his story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor, Rodriguez and Green all say that staff knew an attack was going to happen on December 12th, 2019. I’ve spoken to additional witnesses who were incarcerated in the unit who also say that staff knew it was going to happen. The sergeant says he still has a hard time believing that officers ordered the hit. And he says they may not have even known it was gonna be deadly. But-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no doubt in my mind staff knew it was going to happen. I mean, I’ve been on the yard, okay? And I’ve had what happens is staff start to develop rapport with inmates and inmates will tell, um, the staff like, “Hey, you probably don’t wanna come to work tomorrow.” It happens all the time. All the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in law enforcement, yeah, we, we don’t do coincidence. And certainly if there is a coincidence, it’s not a whole whole entire scenario. So the fact that you have not once, not twice, but three times, these two guys got out of their cell and were able to do the same thing with weapons is not a coincidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Tinkerbell again, the retired correctional officer who you heard from last episode. She says, at the very least, this pattern, the Britt incident, the practice run, and the homicide points to negligence on the part of officers. She says higher ups knew there were issues even running a day room in this high security unit. And there were issues with these three guys in particular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether you have any humanity or not, we are paid to do a job. And if you don’t do their job and somebody gets killed, you should not sleep well at night. And if you say and do shit to instigate that, or further it, or fail to stop it when you knew or had prior knowledge, then shame on you. You are no better than the people that you are earning your retirement from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says she knew Steele was looking into things, talking to the suspects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was conducting an internal investigation that Internal Affairs refused to do. And when Internal Affairs had it, they covered it up or closed it out because they did not want any part of this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs did eventually look into the murder and some of the officers who were on duty that day did get disciplined, but there were some serious problems with that investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we’d gotten a chance to see the videos and the other evidence we were leaked. I had started trying to make contact with the officers named in the lawsuit, brought by Aguilar’s mom. The Attorney General’s office that’s representing them declined my request for an interview and referred me back to CDCR. CDCR has declined to comment on the case. But I also started emailing and calling some officers individually. I left a message for Demond Sykes, the guy who Taylor says didn’t double lock him, but he didn’t get back to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also reached out to a number of officers on Facebook, including Eric Baker, the man who was the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit in 2019 when the murder happened, and the guy who Dion Green says was behind everything. Surprisingly Baker responded by calling me up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, would you mind if I record it or does that make you uncomfortable? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t want me to record the call, but he did agree to speak to me on the record, and I recorded my side of the phone call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have talked to other officers, other law enforcement, other investigators who say that the pattern of these three guys working together, getting outta their cuffs multiple times in the same unit in the space of a couple months, like how does that happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker asked, how do people do these kinds of things all the time in prison? Criminal, he said, is a word that comes to mind, along with time and ingenuity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. What is your take on why they weren’t disciplined when they got outta their cuffs for the practice run? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he was unaware of any practice run and that if staff had seen Rodriguez and Taylor out of their cuffs, there would have been a report. There was no report, so it couldn’t have happened the way I’d heard it did. Now, Anthony Rodriguez said Baker didn’t know anything about the murder ahead of time, but Green had told me Baker had orchestrated things. So I felt like I had to ask Baker about Green’s allegations directly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I don’t, I just doesn’t need to be like super confrontational. I just wanna get your take on it. Um, but you know, the “shot caller” Dion Green, you know, said that you were, you know, basically behind this whole thing that you participated with him and ordered him to do this. Can you speak to that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker did not directly respond to this question, and I was a bit flustered, but he kind of scoffed at the idea I was even asking it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am asking you as a person to say, did you have anything to do with it, and did you work with Dion Green to- so I just want a straightforward answer from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker said, I should already have my answer. He says the Office of Internal Affairs did a 19 month investigation and that they didn’t find he’d done anything wrong. But again, he didn’t directly respond to the allegation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so are you, are you refusing to deny that you had anything to do with it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he couldn’t answer my question because the case was in active litigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I understand why you can’t answer. I am just also wanted to give you the opportunity to answer if you so choose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he told me he didn’t need to clear the air, saying that him talking to me doesn’t determine the future of his career, his past or his present. And he pointed out that in the years since the murder, he’s actually been promoted. He’s a captain now. That, he said, should tell me something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During my conversation with him, Baker did bring up one concrete piece of evidence — his proof that officers had nothing to do with the murder. It’s a phone call made by Anthony Rodriguez on a recorded line to a loved one in which Rodriguez said officers weren’t a part of the murder and he wasn’t gonna get somebody fired over something that wasn’t true. Baker’s point was if staff had put him up to it, why would Rodriguez deny it in this casual call? So I asked Anthony Rodriguez about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said those words before, yes, I most definitely have said those words before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked why he’d say that. If officers really did help facilitate the murder the way he told me they did, why not say so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t willing, willing to review all that stuff because at the time I had been there for a long time and I never had problems with these officers and I didn’t, I didn’t feel that I should, I should, uh, you know, be the reason to get them in trouble. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Rodriguez said the story that he told me was the truth. And that that is the same thing he said under oath when he gave his deposition and the lawsuit brought by Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario. He says he killed Aguilar over a slight on the yard. And that officers, while they didn’t order it or even know how serious the attack was going to be, did help him and Taylor carry it out. Rodriguez maintained that officers didn’t double lock the cuffs and that they agreed not to shoot them dead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What strikes me is that regardless of which version of events you believe, there are just so many moments where this whole thing could have gone another way… and Aguilar would still be alive. If prison leaders had separated Taylor Rodriguez and Green following their attempted murder of Michael Britt. If officers had responded the day of the practice run and searched Taylor for weapons. If officers had double locked their cuffs. If officers had run through the doors before Rodriguez and Taylor got to Aguilar. If the control booth cop had fired his mini 14 to stop the attack.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in September of 2022, when I spoke to Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario over Zoom, she said something that really stuck with me. She said, it didn’t matter if officers ordered the hit or just looked the other way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hay un dicho que dice, que dice “tanto peca el que mata la vaca como el que le agarra la pata.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario says, there’s this saying in Mexico that translates to, “He who kills the cow sins as much as he who grabs its leg.” Even though the officers did not hold the knives that killed her son, she holds them responsible for his death. The bottom line for her is that this happened, on their watch, and they did nothing to stop it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo sé que no soy la única madre que tiene un hijo precio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I know I’m not the only mother that had a son in prison,” she says. “There are other mothers like me who hope to see their sons again one day only to find out that they’ve been unjustly killed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y que este memento le digamos que se lo mataron injustamente.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario’s lawsuit against prison officials is ongoing. As far as we know the FBI are still investigating too. So those cases may provide more answers. But among the remaining mysteries of this case is one central to our story that we wanted to try and unravel. What happened to the investigative report that Officer Valentino Rodriguez wrote about the murder just before he left New Folsom Prison on stress leave. The report that his father, Val Sr., had so many questions about. In response to our requests for any reports on the murder written by Valentino, CDCR said, “We can’t locate any written reports by Valentino Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is very puzzling. Text messages on Valentino’s phone show he was actually working on two reports about the murder. One was an investigative memo explaining how the murder was related to gang activity. The other was a supplemental report to go with the disciplinary reports that were issued to each of the three suspects. We simply don’t know what happened to the investigative memo. It’s possible that Valentino didn’t complete it, but the other report, the supplemental, was actually leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That report is also referenced in Dion Green’s public court documents. So we know that report was submitted and was in CDCR’s files in December of 2020. Why the agency’s public records team can’t find it now is a mystery. Tinkerbell says she looked at Valentino’s report and it was really well written, but-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you knew what you were reading, it didn’t, something just wasn’t connecting. It was like, this doesn’t make sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino’s supplemental report suggests that Aguilar’s killing was motivated by a dispute between two rival prison gangs: the independent riders, or IR, and the 2-5ers. Just a side note, these are smaller, less organized gangs that more recently have been trying to get power and notoriety in California prisons. Killing can be one of the ways to do that. The report notes that the weapons that were retrieved from the scene had markings on them: 666, along with the initials IR on one, and G Satan — Green’s moniker — written on the handle of the other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It also said that Taylor participated in the killing as an initiation into the IR gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t believe any of this was for initiation. Um, I believe that they had said some shit on the tier about Aguilar and they didn’t like him and they wanted to murder someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I talked to Taylor, he also said it had nothing to do with an initiation. Tinkerbell says Steele came to believe that that supplemental report didn’t totally make sense because it was written to serve another purpose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so Kevin said the reason that is because they told him what to write and to make sure it had a gang nexus. And I’m like, “Why would they do that?” And then he said, “To take pressure off of staff.” And I was like, okay. So staff involvement for this? Okay, I don’t know, it’s, that’s a, it’s a big bag of worms to open up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t know if Valentino ever spoke with the warden about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar or about his reports. But there were those cryptic text messages with Steele on the last day of Valentino’s life — about the two sides of New Folsom — in which Steele talked about running the race, and Valentino said he wanted his name left out of “everything.” And that it “took a lot out of me to relive the truth.” Tinkerbell says Steele felt like he should have walked with Valentino into that meeting with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was feeling, taking on responsibility that he should have done more to help Rodriguez. So he felt responsible. He took on responsibility that wasn’t his.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele also felt responsible for the investigation into the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But that was another responsibility that wasn’t his to bear. He was not an internal affairs investigator. He didn’t have the authority to interview officers or track down every lead. It was his job and his explicit obligation to pass on any allegations or evidence of misconduct to higher ups. The Chief Deputy Warden, Gina Jones and the Warden Jeff Lynch. And from all the evidence we have been able to review, it appears that this is what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened to the case after it got handed up the chain? While that internal investigation was not released to us, we have been able to get a peek around the edges, and what we can see raises serious questions. First of all, what took so long? Internal emails that we got show that New Folsom officials delayed asking internal affairs to investigate, then the special agent assigned to the case also stalled conducting the investigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An oversight agency did not conclude that that delay was intentional, but said the special agent also “failed to conduct effective interviews and didn’t talk to a crucial witness.” It’s not clear which witness they are talking about. But we do know they never got that final interview with Kevin Steele. The interview that a special agent called him about on the last day of his life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs investigation did result in the discipline of three officers. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The guy who didn’t fire his mini 14 or didn’t- said he didn’t have his mini 14 on him — who was the Tower guard — he got a 5% salary reduction for three months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This incident was over 60 seconds long. I don’t wanna hear that. That’s such bullshit. He failed to act: violation. I cannot wrap my head around it. What else happened to the other officers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell her there was one officer who failed to respond to alarms both during the stabbing of Michael Britt and then again during the Aguilar homicide. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he got a 5% salary reduction for 12 months. Um, the third person who was disciplined, who got the highest discipline, was the one who took a video of the video.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was an officer who’d used his phone to take a video of the surveillance footage of the homicide, and then he’d shared it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what he got disciplined for — not for failing to protect the inmates or failing to respond or, you know, letting people outta their cuffs or any of that. It was for the video, um, for sharing the video. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, like, I just don’t understand how, I don’t understand how they haven’t been prosecuted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well also like, we just kind of found out, like through our investigation that they were not like- none of the officers were interviewed about this, um, by OIA until after Kevin was dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are fucking kidding me? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was a murder in the institution where all of these people failed to fucking respond. There was two, two for sure incidents and then a fucking dry run. There was videos of all of this that Kevin gave and that they didn’t fuck-ing interview anybody? Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has to pause for a moment to collect herself. She looks through her phone and reads out a message from Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“How to kill a cop. I know. Alone, betrayed, enveloped in corruption.” These are like some of the, the texts that Steele sent me, like he was just… “Broken, betrayal, double crossed and sold out.” These are things that Kevin sent me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says, what Steele did — coming forward — was incredibly hard to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you know how much courage it must have taken Kevin and Val to go to them and try to expose the wrongdoing? Do you know how much courage that must have taken?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the years, she says she’s witnessed and heard about a lot of things that troubled her, but she was afraid to come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so many people that want to say something, but the fear… As a parent, right? What are some of our biggest fears? Our kids going to prison, us getting a call that something happened to them, finding out they have a medical issue that’s not curable. That fear has got nothing on the daily fear that you, you deal with walking into an institution if you’re viewed in a bad light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said she’s talking to us now because she doesn’t want what happened to Steele and what happened to Valentino to happen to anyone else. But that doesn’t mean she isn’t still afraid. She is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am, you know, willing to subject myself, when people find out or if people find out — I know it’s not if I know it’s a matter of when — that I’m just a two-faced inmate-loving rat piece of shit who’s trying to get good officers in trouble. And my view is that if they were good officers, they wouldn’t have done criminal activity. So don’t you put that on me. I didn’t make those decisions. I made the decision to not come forward with a lot of the information that I had because I was so afraid for my safety, my family’s safety, and my livelihood after.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we aired her voice in that last episode three weeks ago, Tinkerbell has gotten a lot of calls and texts from people who recognized her voice. She’s also been called a dirty cop, publicly, by someone she doesn’t even know. But she still said we could use her voice in this episode. And she said she hopes other people can find the courage to do the right thing and come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But my journey is the exact sames as Kevin’s in regards to we want people held accountable. And at the time, Val, Val was still’s motivation. Okay? Val and Kevin are a part of my motivation, but they’re not my sole motivation. My motivation is I want this to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up next time in our final episode, Julie and I walk through the gates of New Folsom prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh here we go, CSP-Sac.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m feeling it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we speak to two correctional officers who did wanna go on the record with us, because like Tinkerbell, they’ve seen too many of their fellow officers pay a price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, two of them that are dead. Because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fuda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED’s Ted Goldberg. And thank you to Alan Lurie of BOA Security who walked me through the mechanics of the transport boxes and the handcuffs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor Jr, Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "7. “We Don’t Do Coincidence” | S2: New Folsom | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We get to listen in on confidential interviews conducted by Sgt. Kevin Steele before his death. Plus, we finally get to see surveillance footage from inside the B8 unit that sheds new light on the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: After this episode first aired on April 2, 2024, CDCR finally located Valentino Rodriguez’s supplemental report about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar that we reference in this episode. Their public records team was initially unable to find it. However, the agency said the report was exempt from disclosure.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC5469603434\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes descriptions of violence and references a homicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, is it powered on? Can you hear it going? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s the day after Julie and I met with our confidential source, and we’re back in the office with our editor, Victoria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not, it’s not reading it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re absolutely reeling from what we’ve been given: memos, internal prison emails, and these video CDs that have Sergeant Kevin Steele’s own handwriting on them. It’s key evidence that Steele had saved, according to our source, both to protect himself and because he’d become so concerned that his own law enforcement agency might try to destroy it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But wait, did you put a disc in it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Try putting a disc in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It wouldn’t do anything? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it was just dead. Right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, the most important videos won’t play. It turns out to watch the practice run and the homicide, we need some special software. So, Julie, Victoria and I huddle in front of Julie’s computer and we try another disc: the one labeled “Taylor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. So let’s try-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is reading it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s try Taylor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Wait, hold on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauléon:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh Lord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna- \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we find out that Cody Taylor, the guy who was so afraid of having this interview come out, is the one who started almost everything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Looks like it’s gonna play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. This is Sergeant Steele in the room. It is now about almost 8:30 on Friday, July the third. I’m also in the room with inmate Taylor. Is that your name?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The video opens with a familiar scene: Steele holding up his black military watch to the camera to record the time. At this point, it’s been almost seven months since the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. Taylor has already pled guilty to the murder and taken his 102 year sentence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I came in here, I told you what we were gonna talk about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let me itemize that. We’re gonna talk about a letter that you sent. We’re gonna talk about some things that you know, and we’re also gonna talk about some things that you’ve noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, correct. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, and also you asked me before I started recording, you said, “Hey, I wanna tell you the real reason why I’m here.” Did you not say that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele reads Taylor his rights as he sits in a cage about the size of a phone booth. He’s a white guy wearing a sleeveless undershirt. You can see a large tattoo of a woman’s face in the center of his upper chest, and another tattoo that’s harder to make out snaking down the left side of his face. Steele holds up a handwritten document to the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is the letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And my signature.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s undated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele has been asked by his boss, a lieutenant in the ISU, to find out more about this letter — this letter that Cody Taylor sent to the warden of New Folsom Prison, making some pretty big allegations. Allegations that up until now, Taylor says he’s kept quiet about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…speculations. I just never, you know, I’ve never admitted it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just used the word “admitted it.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that you’ve always known that there are things that are unknown-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unknown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or in the shadows. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, of course. Of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what you’re saying is, you know that you have direct information to validate those- that speculation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have direct information. If, if the video evidence is still there, that’s more than enough on both occasions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, we go back inside the day room one final time. To look at what this video evidence shows about the claims of each of the murderers. To find out how Steele had looked at this case, and if his obsession had gone too far. And to ask who should answer for the death of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Musical break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get further into this evidence, I just wanted to let you know that KQED agreed to pay some costs so the confidential source could bring us these materials. It’s not something we usually do, but in this case, we decided it was appropriate. We needed to safeguard the evidence, protect our source, and finish our investigation in time. Now let’s get back to Steele’s interview with Cody Taylor about the letter he sent, which was addressed to Warden Jeff Lynch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… or do you need to look at it again to review it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, I, I, I pretty much know what it’s about. Um, would you like me to summarize it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele he sent this letter because he’s fed up with how he’s been treated since the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cell search daily, which isn’t policy. Um, you know, the little bit of property I do have, you know, um, destroyed on a daily basis. Uh, personal, uh, hygiene and, and food items spread out sometimes — it’s happened twice. Um, shoe prints on my bed, the list goes on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he thinks it’s retaliation — that the murder made the prison look bad. And he says there’s been a lot of speculation about officers lending them a helping hand, which he is now ready to talk about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be willing to take a lie detector test. Um, ’cause everything that I’m saying and have said in that letter is 1000% honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor explains, going back to the assault on Michael Britt two months before the murder, they had an understanding with the officers in the unit. Britt, if you remember, was Dion Green’s enemy, who he’d already tried to kill at a different prison once before. Yet prison officials put Britt and Green in the same housing section and let them all have day room together \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While walking out, the sergeant and the lieutenant said, “Hey man, you’re on your own, cuz. Have fun with these guys.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They said that to Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Said that to Britt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And by them saying that, are you, is your inference that they knew what was about to happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, because the sergeant asked me if this could not happen today because he’s trying to go home. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant said, could this not happen today because he’s going home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And I said, it’s only business, big dog.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says the officers let them carry on with their business: attacking Michael Britt. Just a side note, we didn’t get a video of the Britt incident, so it’s the one that’s the hardest to analyze, but we were leaked some still images that show Taylor and Rodriguez stabbing Britt as Green looks on from a nearby chair. A still image taken a minute and a half later shows the two attackers standing in the middle of the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Reports say the control booth officer shot those foam batons, but he didn’t use lethal force. Then about eight weeks after they tried to kill Britt, there was the practice run. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We tested everything out a week prior. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele how he was in the day room, got out of his cuffs, slipped the black boxes, ran up the stairs, got the knives from Dion Green’s cell, and came back down. All of which the tower officer saw, but didn’t do anything about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do you know that they knew that you had weapons? How would you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, not necessarily weapons, but he asked me what I went up there and grabbed. When he opened up the thing, he’s like, “Why’d you do that? Why’d you go up there and grab it?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’d you tell him? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said, “Man, just relax. It’s all good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He goes-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially, Taylor says the plan was to murder Aguilar that day — the day of the practice run. They knew he’d have to walk through the day room on his way back from a morning group, but ultimately he and Anthony Rodriguez decided to wait until a later day — a day when they could get him in the day room alone, not under an officer escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, just outta respect for the staff because they were, you know, looking out for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele asks Taylor about one of those ways that staff was supposedly looking out for them, that Taylor talked about in his letter.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You said, and I I’m gonna quote you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It says, “Keys were given to us.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keys were given to you by who?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Real keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real cuff. Cuff keys.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Real long cuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not homemade, not manufacturer keys. They’re the real deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Broken off handcuff keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele later interviewed a different man who’d been in the B8 unit. This guy told him that, “Everyone knew the cops were working with those guys, they could run around without getting shot.” And he told Steele that cops had given Green a real cuff key and that it was being used to make copies. In the video with Steele, Taylor says, the day of the murder where they went after Luis Giovanny Aguilar, staff once again, knew what was gonna happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this. Not only all staff knew, but cer- I believe certain staff left the buildings ’cause they didn’t want to be involved, I believe. Because they were transferring to another institution and they were like, “Hey man, we’re I’m this, this my up my transfer. I’m not trying to be involved.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when you say transfer, ’cause they’re trying to transfer to Mule Creek?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mule Creek Prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had told me that just right before this today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right before. And he goes, “I’m not gonna be involved because,” um… Or no, “I couldn’t be involved in the fun because I’m trying to get a transfer.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those details in Taylor’s story that to me has the granularity and messiness of truth. It’s such an odd thing to make up, and it’s something that Steele was later able to confirm. Two officers in the unit had transferred to Mule Creek State Prison shortly after. Steele continues going over the letter and Taylor explains how they’d also made this agreement with officers not to double lock their cuffs so that they could get out of the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor tells Steele to go back and look at the video of the murder. While he says he hasn’t seen it himself, he thinks a moment was caught on tape that will prove his point. As they were going through the security protocol at his cell door, the officer who was cuffing him made a mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m coming outta my door and he accidentally double locks my right foot. That being said, my left lock is p- is still not double locked. Um, but my right one is. I look, I look to the right and I tell him, “Hey, you fucked up. That shit is double locked.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor claims the officer kneeled down outside his door and undid the double lock on his right ankle cuff. But Taylor says the day of the murder, they did have one new factor to worry about. They didn’t know the guy in the control booth or tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve already had these conversations with the previous tower with Britt. Everything was good. He wasn’t gonna kill us. Right? But there was a new cop in there. So I made sure I said, look man, you know, we’re half-ass doing you guys a favor. You know, this guy assaulted you and shit. You know, we have our own- word for word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have our own reasons too, but can you make sure, uh, your tower doesn’t kill us? He goes, um, I don’t really know him, but I’m gonna talk to him right now. You should be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor had told me a lot of the same things that he told Steele. Some of these details I didn’t include in the last episode because I couldn’t verify them. Like the officers trying to transfer, or the supposed footage of an officer kneeling down at his door. But now that we had these memos and videos, these were things we could check. Near the end of the tape, Steele brings the conversation back to Taylor’s motivation for sending his letter to the warden. What does he hope to get out of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The real reason, the impetus, the reason that you wrote this is, again, about your housing placement, the treatment, and the fact that you, your, your real longing is to go to Salinas Valley unencumbered with anything from here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just want to move on. I just, you know, I feel that I took one on the chin. You know, I-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This appears to be what he’s proposing. He’ll continue to keep quiet about officers’ involvement in the murder in exchange for suspending his solitary confinement, or SHU term, and transferring him to Salinas Valley State Prison where he says he’ll be safer with members of his own gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to move all this behind me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… and start over right there. Um, but I feel that I shouldn’t remain in the SHU, be treated as I’m being treated. And, and after, you know what? Initially, hey, I, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody. And, and I’m, if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he doesn’t want anything, money or anything else, and he says he’ll even sign a non-disclosure agreement if that would help. Because his point is not to get staff in trouble. If he wanted to do that, he’d have gone about this in a totally different way. He’d have filed a formal complaint, told his family who worked in law enforcement or called the press. But he wanted to see if he could work this out directly with the warden. So he sent that letter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My co-defendants don’t even know about that letter. Nobody knows about that letter besides me. My co-defendants- I don’t speak to Mr. Green no more, but Rodriguez doesn’t even know about that letter. Nobody-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Taylor says he’s at a boiling point.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you fools didn’t even do an investigat- Excuse me, I don’t know that, but I’m just assuming you guys didn’t even do an investigation into your officers. They might have been redirected, but I’m sure nobody’s gotten fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a coverup in itself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor is right about one thing, at the time of this interview. From what we can see, Internal Affairs hasn’t started investigating this incident and no one has been fired. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who do you want to see this video? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. I’m gonna go ahead and conclude. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not totally clear to me what to make of Taylor’s motives here. Okay, so he’s not trying to get out of criminal charges, but does he really believe he’s going to strike a deal with the warden? And if so, why turn to Kevin Steele — a rule follower — to be his blackmail delivery guy? On the other hand, if he’s just lying to stir up shit for officers, what does he hope to get out of it? An investigation that’s only gonna bring a whole bunch more scrutiny and danger down on him? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I have another question about this interview from the prison’s side of things. Why was Steele the one assigned to do it in the first place? There were clearly already rumors going around about this murder among witnesses in the unit. A different letter alleging it was a setup had already been mailed to the District Attorney’s office within weeks of the murder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you’re the warden, why assign this to someone in-house? For simple optics reasons, it seems like getting headquarters to review would be the cleanest course of action. CDCR says they cannot comment on this case, and that it’s part of an ongoing investigation involving outside law enforcement. But whatever the warden thought he was doing by sending Steele in to do this interview, and whatever Taylor thought he was doing walking into this interview, those choices start a chain reaction that likely neither prison officials nor Cody Taylor wanted. An investigation that winds up in the lap of the FBI and a lawsuit brought against prison officials by the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens next in the chain reaction set off by Taylor’s letter is that Steele wants to find corroboration. After that first interview with Taylor, in emails to his bosses, including the warden, Steele shares what he’s uncovering. He sounds activated and eager to move on Taylor’s claims. He says he’s already talked to Green about some of these issues with the murder, and he asks permission to try and talk to Anthony Rodriguez, the third murder suspect who took part in the stabbing with Taylor. It doesn’t appear that Anthony Rodriguez ever agreed to that, but someone else did agree to go on tape with Steele. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Go ahead and introduce yourself please.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Green J22161. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this video, Dion Green is now the one in the cage and Steele starts off the same as he did with Taylor by noting the time and date. It’s July 17th, 2020, and reading him his rights. This is Steele’s first recorded interview with Green, but he acknowledges that they have talked about the murder before while handling stuff for court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in a roundabout way, you told me that it would’ve never happened had staff not participated in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we listened in on this interview, hoping to understand this next phase of Steele’s investigation, and what Green had said to Steele that had convinced him that officers had a hand in the murder, we realized that many of those conversations had already happened off camera, and this set up a very odd dynamic in this interview. For example, Steele brings out a pair of handcuffs to get Green to demonstrate the double locking mechanism, but it’s clear this is a replay for the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I brought these very same cuffs down last week and I asked you a simple question.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember that question? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes sir.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked you whether I can get these cuffs open if they’re double locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele double locks the cuffs and hands Green, a flat metal shim. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you get those open with that shim? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I already know that I can’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In case you missed that, he says, “I already know that I can’t.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green is very soft spoken throughout this interview. He says he sometimes hesitates because he has Parkinson’s and because going on the record is dangerous. Steele, meanwhile, is a man in constant motion. A man now animated by this mission to find the truth about this murder. And what these two very different styles lead to are these exchanges where Green hesitates, and instead of waiting for him to respond, Steele jumps in — helping him and clearly leading him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would think that you guys making the weapons and cutting the- the desks, it would seem to me that that would require a lot of effort on your part. It would make a lot of noise. And possibly it would require some extra stuff that maybe you don’t have access to. What do you think on that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, of course, I mean-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele brings up the noise of making the weapons and Green picks up on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to be able to hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scraping, you mean the grinding or-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Verbal scraping noise] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">you know, the, you know, you’ve seen the weapons that was used. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the way I ran this by an officer who said that on its own, this isn’t a credible piece of evidence. A lot of these units are really loud and the sound of making the weapons could easily be missed by officers. But Steele doesn’t push back or point out how noisy the unit is. It seems like he just accepts what Green’s saying and moves on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Was there any, any um, extra things that were provided to enable you to cut the, the Steele from the desk? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, only way when we can get or use… they provided, and that was the clipper heads and stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re talking about the tool used to make the knives the head of a hair clipper. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say they, who are you talking about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Staff brought you clipper heads? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To your cell? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, it’s like Steele already knows the answers he’s looking for. Clearly they have talked about this before. Now that’s likely part of why Steele is asking these questions like this: to prompt a reluctant witness to share things he’s said before, but now to do it for the record. But the end result is that there are these huge moments where it feels like Steele is testifying himself rather than eliciting answers from Green. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if I’m understanding you, you’re saying if it can happen to Aguilar, it can happen to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course. Absolutely. Absolutely. At any time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taken a step further, you’re saying that staff could facilitate you being in the wrong place at the wrong time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As we watched this recording, I was also listening for things that Green had told me, which you heard about last episode. But Green does not mention Aguilar being a child molester or that the killing was ordered by the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit, Eric Baker. He doesn’t say anything about the drugs he told me that an officer brought to his cell to give to Taylor and Rodriguez’s payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that Green tells Steele first is actually the closest to how Taylor and Rodriguez have described the incident. Not a hit ordered by the officers, but an assault that they facilitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We could not have killed this man. He would be alive today if it wasn’t for the, the assistance and the help of your staff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He tells Steele that officers agreed to make Aguilar — who was associated with an enemy gang, who was known to be disrespectful and assault staff — available to them in the ways we’ve talked about before. There’d be no kill shot and no double locking the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think there’s a possibility that the officer made a mistake twice when he, when he didn’t double lock those cuffs?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not no damn mistake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not a mistake. Not twice in a row? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not. You, you are a professional.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your job-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you don’t think it’s a mistake or an oversight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With, with with, with us… the caliber of men that we are… I go back to this: the caliber men- of who I am and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. We are. So to not secure us… to not secure us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, Steele asks Green if there’s anything he’d like to say to the people who this video is for: the warden and the chief deputy warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What would you wanna say to them? If anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green rocks forward in his seat slightly. There’s a little open slot in the side of the cage that he peers through to look into the camera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, um, I’m asking for my safety. My livelihood is, you know, I’m asking for, you know, to be placed nowhere in the state of California. Nowhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this interview, Steele and Green will record at least three more interviews. Unfortunately, we don’t have all those recordings, but we do know that Steele came to believe much of Green’s story. And I think part of that is because he began to feel responsible for him. At the very, very beginning of this first video, Steele starts the tape rolling while Green is in the middle of saying something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just want me just to take your word? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele puts his word on the line to convince Green to put his life on the line. And even if Green’s motives aren’t pure, that danger is real. In the months to come, confidential information about Green’s testimony and Taylor’s letter is leaked out to officers and word spreads that he talked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That I’m a whistleblower rat for ex- exposing this ongoing corruption of staff and that I need to be taken out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a clip from one of those later interviews that we did get. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say calling you a whistleblower, when, what does that term mean to you? Whistleblower?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, whistleblower to me means- okay in terms of, you know, uh, Snowden, you know Snowden?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edward Snowden who leaked secrets about the NSA. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it can take on a bad connotation sometimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it is again, a government program intended to expose corruption. That’s what it’s designed for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he’s being called this for a different reason.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The purpose is only one purpose. That purpose is to get me hurt very badly. To get me killed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming across this exchange was such a meta moment for me. These two men discussing the meaning of the term “whistleblower,” the term that came to define Sergeant Kevin Steele, but did not protect him. And the term that has marked Dion Green as well. While it’s possible that Steele got too close to Green to see him clearly, Green’s testimony is not the only evidence Steele had to go on. Now it is not the only evidence that we have to go on either. We finally did figure out how to play the surveillance videos of Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s murder and the practice run, and we found an expert to help us decode them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to start by having Julie show you the video of what has been called the Practice Run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A couple weeks after we got these videos and memos about the Aguilar homicide, we met up with another confidential source. I was on Zoom and Julie was in the studio. This man is a retired sergeant who knows a lot about internal affairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is just- Yeah, the practice run.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there’s no sound. You know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He watches it play. The video leaked to us is pretty short. Four minutes and 22 seconds. When it starts, Taylor and Rodriguez are already sitting at the individual desks in the day room. Rodriguez is on the left and Taylor is on the right. You don’t see how Taylor escapes his restraints because when the video starts, he’s clearly already gotten out of the handcuffs, which are supposed to be attached to a chain around his waist, and the ankle shackles that are supposed to be fixing him to the chair. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor sweeps his right leg out to shake off the ankle chain and then runs around the desk and up the stairs leading to Green’s cell. He kind of trips at the top of the stairs, recovers, and then grabs something — the knives — from under the door. He tucks them into the open front of his white prison jumpsuit. As he runs back down the stairs, he adjusts the knives in his waistband and then sits back down in his chair. Anthony Rodriguez gives him a big smile and kind of bounces up and down in his seat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor starts putting his restraints back on. The first time watching it through, the sergeant is pretty unconvinced that staff would’ve necessarily noticed the action in the unit. Just a note, this sergeant didn’t want us to use his voice. So the voice you’re gonna hear is actually one of our colleagues repeating exactly what the confidential source said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you watch the inmates, one of them is clearly the lookout. So if staff are involved, why is he so intent on identifying whether or not staff are in the picture, whether or not staff are coming?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says if the control booth officer was paying attention the way they were supposed to, these guys shouldn’t have been able to do this. But he said that complicity is not the only explanation for the security failure. It could also be laziness or incompetence, but he wants to see it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This time we ask him to check out these two moments that happen at the very edge of what the camera captures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are the moments where you can see staff interacting with Taylor and Rodriguez. Taylor has just sat back down in his chair and he’s starting to get his restraints back on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then there’s somebody that comes to the window of the rotunda, which you can also see in the video. Let’s see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie plays the first clip where an officer appears at the window of the rotunda. That’s the central area outside the housing section. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what it looks like to me, if I wanna be skeptical, it looks like he’s- so, he’s got his hands on the window and then he goes like \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, which is like cuffs, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Julie zooms in so the sergeant can see the officer in the rotunda who looks like he’s holding up two fists next to each other, kind of pantomiming the gesture for cuffs. And Rodriguez holds up his hands showing, yeah, he’s still in restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. He is like, “Look, yeah, I’m good.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmhmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer disappears from the window. So maybe he had a question about whether they were in their cuffs or not, but he’s satisfied by what he sees. Then almost as soon as he disappears, another officer steps into view in the control booth. The sergeant starts manipulating the video himself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just zoomed in on the tower. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He pushes play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh shit, he’s giving hand signals. Do you see his hands? He’s giving hand signals. That’s weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officer in the control booth is clearly doing something with his hands. It could be that this guy just talks with his hands a lot. But the sergeant says what’s giving him pause is that hand signals are a common way for incarcerated people to talk to each other on the yard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The problem I have is that there’s clearly a control booth cop up there, somebody up there. And what I really don’t like is how he’s communicating with the inmates. There’s something very familiar about what he’s doing with those inmates. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the tail end of this back and forth, as the control booth officer disappears from view, Taylor adjusts the front of his jumpsuit and then he draws the waist chain of the shackles back over his head. Then he pulls the objects out of his waistband, bends over and slips them in his left sock. In all it takes three and a half minutes for him to put his ankle shackles and his handcuffs back on. The sergeant rewinds the video and watches it again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s running up the stairs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no way he should have been up the stairs. There’s no way he should have been able to do what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says this video is not the full picture. He wishes he could see what happened in the minutes before it starts and in the minutes after. But he says, bottom line, the video is proof officers did not do what they were supposed to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What should have happened? There should have been a button press. There should have been alarm, there should have been people coming in. They should have been extracted from there. There should be, there’s all kinds of things that should have happened. So do I think he saw the dude was unshackled? A hundred percent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This matches Taylor’s version of events: that an officer saw he’d gotten something from Green’s cell, asked him what he was doing, and Taylor told him not to worry about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here’s what stands out to me. If officers had gone in and checked if they’d found the weapons concealed on Taylor’s body and confiscated them, Taylor and Rodriguez would not have had those knives a week later and so may not have been able to go forward with the attack at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, it’s pretty ugly. It’s supposed to be the most secured housing unit in the entire state of California. This is terrible. This is such a disgrace. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should I do one camera angle at a time or is it better to do it this way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So do the one, the left hand view where you can see Taylor coming out of his cell first.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Next we showed the sergeant the video of the murder itself. When it starts, Luis Giovanny Aguilar is already in the day room. This is something that Taylor, Green and Rodriguez all say was prearranged with officers. A group of three officers approach Taylor cell on the second tier of the housing unit. The officers wave at the control booth to open the cell door and you can see Taylor from behind. He’s in a white prison jumpsuit kneeling with his back to the doorway. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Should we zoom in? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, if you can. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An officer named Demond Sykes gets down to secure Taylor’s ankle shackles. Sykes reaches for something in his belt and the sergeant explains that’s him going for his keys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the only reason he’d be pulling his cuff key is to use the end of the cuff key as the double lock.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The cuffs automatically single lock when you ratchet them closed. To engage the double lock, you have to do one more step: use the end of the cuff key to push this little pin into the side of the cuffs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was like, he’s just double locked him ’cause you see him go to his belt and then come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, as they step out of the cell, Taylor turns to his right and says something to Sykes, the officer who just secured his cuffs. Then Taylor kneels down again this time outside the cell on the tier. I tell the sergeant that this is a moment that Taylor told Steele was evidence that staff were involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says this moment shows they- that accidentally Sykes double locked his right cuff and he came out of his cell and he goes to Sykes, “Are we double locking today?” Because if he’s double locked he can’t get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Sykes gets back down on his knees and goes, “Oops, my bad.” And un-double-locks just the right hand cuffed — the left hand one was not double locked already — and then they proceed with the rest of the escort.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant rewinds and zooms in comparing the first time Officer Sykes locks the ankle cuffs with the second time he goes down to adjust them. The innocent explanation is that Taylor said the cuffs were too tight and Sykes loosened them. But even so, the cuffs should still have been double locked after loosening them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, it lends more credence and more credit to the fact that he was taking off the double lock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They bring Taylor down the stairs and have him kneel on this chair that’s in the middle of the day room. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why is he on the chair? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the black boxes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers are putting those black boxes on that cover the keyhole of his ankle cuffs. Then they chain him to one of the fixed day room chairs. Next they go through the whole security protocol with Anthony Rodriguez. Put the black boxes on him and chain him to a seat two desks away from Taylor. Then the officers file out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then just, yeah, like watch, watch through for- from there, like them getting out and the kind of choreography of everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Immediately Rodriguez and Taylor start messing with their restraints. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re, they’re looking at the control booth an awful lot. Like, to me they’re looking to see if anybody’s coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It takes almost two minutes for them to get out of their restraints. But again, if someone in the control booth was paying attention, that’s quite a bit of time to miss that these guys are up to something. Then both Taylor and Rodriguez are out. The next moment looks synchronized from the motion of them placing their right hands on the desks, standing up, running up the stairs. This time, Rodriguez is the one who gets something from Green’s cell. Rodriguez comes back down. They both hit the bottom of the staircase with Taylor in front. He kind of steps toward the control booth and the door with this big grin on his face. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s he smiling at?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was someone at the door. They, the, the control booth officer began to open the door as he’s coming down the stairs. So Taylor kind of goes before he has a knife or anything, kind of makes that motion towards the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a key moment that passes in a flash. But it’s important because it’s another opportunity for officers to step in before anything happens. But then, almost as quickly as it opens, the door closes again. Officers do not rush in. Rodriguez hands something to Taylor and they run over and begin stabbing Aguilar. At this point, policy requires that officers act immediately to stop a deadly threat. But they still have to decide how to act based on the situation. What the control booth officer does is fire the first of those foam or rubber projectiles. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, a rubber round just came out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked the sergeant if this seems late to him, he goes back in and looks at the timestamps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So six seconds between the time the rubber round comes out and do I think that’s late? No. Here’s part of the problem. Part of the problem is that up until they get to him, they’re just out of restraints. And I can promise you that every control cop in the world is gonna sit there and second guess using any sort of force at that point. Because they’re gonna say to you, this is what the department’s gonna say to me. “Where was the threat?” And you’re gonna go, well, they were outta their handcuffs. They were running around the building. “Okay, where was the threat?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says six seconds as a response time is understandable, but what is less understandable is what happens from this point on. The sergeant says even if this officer didn’t have the mini 14 rifle — the deadly force option — slung on his body, which they’re supposed to, it would’ve been close by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He could have very easily grabbed the mini. You can’t make that decision for him. That’s the challenge. You know, if he, I, if I had almost, you know, 20 years in the department, I’d have picked up the mini and unloaded it on those guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But he says that’s him with his experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know what he would’ve done. And the same thing for the sergeant standing at the door and the sergeant standing at the door. I saw him making radio calls pretty much immediat- well, immediately while he was there I would’ve gone in a lot sooner than he did. But that’s me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sergeant says the officers should have gone in as soon as they had the numbers to go in — at least four officers at the door. On the video, the two men continue to rapidly and repeatedly stab Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like there’s multiple opportunities, you know, to do it. See this guy’s just stabbing him. I put a bullet in him already. I mean he’s clearly making stabbing motions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point they even stop stabbing him, kind of hiding behind the desks and then Taylor eggs on Rodriguez and Rodriguez goes back and continues.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then he goes back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like Rodriguez finishes stabbing Aguilar. He stands up with his back to the control booth and Taylor steps forward and lands a last kick on Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When he gets up to kick him. Yeah, he, he gets shot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can see Taylor recoil as he gets hit by one of those foam rounds. Aguilar doesn’t appear to be moving anymore. Rodriguez throws the knife toward the door and lies down on his stomach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If they don’t have an agreement with the officer to not shoot them dead. They have reason to believe that, that at some point during this he likely could \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And should, I mean all things… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, they should be dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watching it, it feels like a long time. As second after second it moves forward to its awful conclusion. But looking at the timestamp from the moment the stabbing itself began until they stopped, it was little more than a minute. After we watch the videos, I ask the sergeant about Taylor’s testimony to Steele. To me, those details he offered are the most compelling evidence I’ve seen so far that officers knew the attack was going to happen, and I wanted to see what he made of Taylor’s motive for coming forward — the deal he was trying to strike with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The only, the only person that would think they could get that is someone who’s already worked with dirty staff. That’s the only, that’s the only reason, ’cause he knows it’s gotta be strings pulled. Like, hey, like if he honestly thinks that he did what he did then, then he honestly thinks that he can get that too. So, you know, just, it just leds a whole lot of credibility to his story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor, Rodriguez and Green all say that staff knew an attack was going to happen on December 12th, 2019. I’ve spoken to additional witnesses who were incarcerated in the unit who also say that staff knew it was going to happen. The sergeant says he still has a hard time believing that officers ordered the hit. And he says they may not have even known it was gonna be deadly. But-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous Sergeant:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no doubt in my mind staff knew it was going to happen. I mean, I’ve been on the yard, okay? And I’ve had what happens is staff start to develop rapport with inmates and inmates will tell, um, the staff like, “Hey, you probably don’t wanna come to work tomorrow.” It happens all the time. All the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in law enforcement, yeah, we, we don’t do coincidence. And certainly if there is a coincidence, it’s not a whole whole entire scenario. So the fact that you have not once, not twice, but three times, these two guys got out of their cell and were able to do the same thing with weapons is not a coincidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Tinkerbell again, the retired correctional officer who you heard from last episode. She says, at the very least, this pattern, the Britt incident, the practice run, and the homicide points to negligence on the part of officers. She says higher ups knew there were issues even running a day room in this high security unit. And there were issues with these three guys in particular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether you have any humanity or not, we are paid to do a job. And if you don’t do their job and somebody gets killed, you should not sleep well at night. And if you say and do shit to instigate that, or further it, or fail to stop it when you knew or had prior knowledge, then shame on you. You are no better than the people that you are earning your retirement from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says she knew Steele was looking into things, talking to the suspects.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was conducting an internal investigation that Internal Affairs refused to do. And when Internal Affairs had it, they covered it up or closed it out because they did not want any part of this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs did eventually look into the murder and some of the officers who were on duty that day did get disciplined, but there were some serious problems with that investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we’d gotten a chance to see the videos and the other evidence we were leaked. I had started trying to make contact with the officers named in the lawsuit, brought by Aguilar’s mom. The Attorney General’s office that’s representing them declined my request for an interview and referred me back to CDCR. CDCR has declined to comment on the case. But I also started emailing and calling some officers individually. I left a message for Demond Sykes, the guy who Taylor says didn’t double lock him, but he didn’t get back to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also reached out to a number of officers on Facebook, including Eric Baker, the man who was the lieutenant of the B8 housing unit in 2019 when the murder happened, and the guy who Dion Green says was behind everything. Surprisingly Baker responded by calling me up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, would you mind if I record it or does that make you uncomfortable? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t want me to record the call, but he did agree to speak to me on the record, and I recorded my side of the phone call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have talked to other officers, other law enforcement, other investigators who say that the pattern of these three guys working together, getting outta their cuffs multiple times in the same unit in the space of a couple months, like how does that happen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker asked, how do people do these kinds of things all the time in prison? Criminal, he said, is a word that comes to mind, along with time and ingenuity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. What is your take on why they weren’t disciplined when they got outta their cuffs for the practice run? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he was unaware of any practice run and that if staff had seen Rodriguez and Taylor out of their cuffs, there would have been a report. There was no report, so it couldn’t have happened the way I’d heard it did. Now, Anthony Rodriguez said Baker didn’t know anything about the murder ahead of time, but Green had told me Baker had orchestrated things. So I felt like I had to ask Baker about Green’s allegations directly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I don’t, I just doesn’t need to be like super confrontational. I just wanna get your take on it. Um, but you know, the “shot caller” Dion Green, you know, said that you were, you know, basically behind this whole thing that you participated with him and ordered him to do this. Can you speak to that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker did not directly respond to this question, and I was a bit flustered, but he kind of scoffed at the idea I was even asking it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am asking you as a person to say, did you have anything to do with it, and did you work with Dion Green to- so I just want a straightforward answer from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Baker said, I should already have my answer. He says the Office of Internal Affairs did a 19 month investigation and that they didn’t find he’d done anything wrong. But again, he didn’t directly respond to the allegation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so are you, are you refusing to deny that you had anything to do with it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He said he couldn’t answer my question because the case was in active litigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I understand why you can’t answer. I am just also wanted to give you the opportunity to answer if you so choose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Finally, he told me he didn’t need to clear the air, saying that him talking to me doesn’t determine the future of his career, his past or his present. And he pointed out that in the years since the murder, he’s actually been promoted. He’s a captain now. That, he said, should tell me something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During my conversation with him, Baker did bring up one concrete piece of evidence — his proof that officers had nothing to do with the murder. It’s a phone call made by Anthony Rodriguez on a recorded line to a loved one in which Rodriguez said officers weren’t a part of the murder and he wasn’t gonna get somebody fired over something that wasn’t true. Baker’s point was if staff had put him up to it, why would Rodriguez deny it in this casual call? So I asked Anthony Rodriguez about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I said those words before, yes, I most definitely have said those words before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked why he’d say that. If officers really did help facilitate the murder the way he told me they did, why not say so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t willing, willing to review all that stuff because at the time I had been there for a long time and I never had problems with these officers and I didn’t, I didn’t feel that I should, I should, uh, you know, be the reason to get them in trouble. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Rodriguez said the story that he told me was the truth. And that that is the same thing he said under oath when he gave his deposition and the lawsuit brought by Luis Giovanny Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario. He says he killed Aguilar over a slight on the yard. And that officers, while they didn’t order it or even know how serious the attack was going to be, did help him and Taylor carry it out. Rodriguez maintained that officers didn’t double lock the cuffs and that they agreed not to shoot them dead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What strikes me is that regardless of which version of events you believe, there are just so many moments where this whole thing could have gone another way… and Aguilar would still be alive. If prison leaders had separated Taylor Rodriguez and Green following their attempted murder of Michael Britt. If officers had responded the day of the practice run and searched Taylor for weapons. If officers had double locked their cuffs. If officers had run through the doors before Rodriguez and Taylor got to Aguilar. If the control booth cop had fired his mini 14 to stop the attack.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in September of 2022, when I spoke to Aguilar’s mother Ma Rosario over Zoom, she said something that really stuck with me. She said, it didn’t matter if officers ordered the hit or just looked the other way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hay un dicho que dice, que dice “tanto peca el que mata la vaca como el que le agarra la pata.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario says, there’s this saying in Mexico that translates to, “He who kills the cow sins as much as he who grabs its leg.” Even though the officers did not hold the knives that killed her son, she holds them responsible for his death. The bottom line for her is that this happened, on their watch, and they did nothing to stop it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo sé que no soy la única madre que tiene un hijo precio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I know I’m not the only mother that had a son in prison,” she says. “There are other mothers like me who hope to see their sons again one day only to find out that they’ve been unjustly killed.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y que este memento le digamos que se lo mataron injustamente.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario’s lawsuit against prison officials is ongoing. As far as we know the FBI are still investigating too. So those cases may provide more answers. But among the remaining mysteries of this case is one central to our story that we wanted to try and unravel. What happened to the investigative report that Officer Valentino Rodriguez wrote about the murder just before he left New Folsom Prison on stress leave. The report that his father, Val Sr., had so many questions about. In response to our requests for any reports on the murder written by Valentino, CDCR said, “We can’t locate any written reports by Valentino Rodriguez.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is very puzzling. Text messages on Valentino’s phone show he was actually working on two reports about the murder. One was an investigative memo explaining how the murder was related to gang activity. The other was a supplemental report to go with the disciplinary reports that were issued to each of the three suspects. We simply don’t know what happened to the investigative memo. It’s possible that Valentino didn’t complete it, but the other report, the supplemental, was actually leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That report is also referenced in Dion Green’s public court documents. So we know that report was submitted and was in CDCR’s files in December of 2020. Why the agency’s public records team can’t find it now is a mystery. Tinkerbell says she looked at Valentino’s report and it was really well written, but-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you knew what you were reading, it didn’t, something just wasn’t connecting. It was like, this doesn’t make sense. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino’s supplemental report suggests that Aguilar’s killing was motivated by a dispute between two rival prison gangs: the independent riders, or IR, and the 2-5ers. Just a side note, these are smaller, less organized gangs that more recently have been trying to get power and notoriety in California prisons. Killing can be one of the ways to do that. The report notes that the weapons that were retrieved from the scene had markings on them: 666, along with the initials IR on one, and G Satan — Green’s moniker — written on the handle of the other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It also said that Taylor participated in the killing as an initiation into the IR gang. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t believe any of this was for initiation. Um, I believe that they had said some shit on the tier about Aguilar and they didn’t like him and they wanted to murder someone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I talked to Taylor, he also said it had nothing to do with an initiation. Tinkerbell says Steele came to believe that that supplemental report didn’t totally make sense because it was written to serve another purpose. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so Kevin said the reason that is because they told him what to write and to make sure it had a gang nexus. And I’m like, “Why would they do that?” And then he said, “To take pressure off of staff.” And I was like, okay. So staff involvement for this? Okay, I don’t know, it’s, that’s a, it’s a big bag of worms to open up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t know if Valentino ever spoke with the warden about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar or about his reports. But there were those cryptic text messages with Steele on the last day of Valentino’s life — about the two sides of New Folsom — in which Steele talked about running the race, and Valentino said he wanted his name left out of “everything.” And that it “took a lot out of me to relive the truth.” Tinkerbell says Steele felt like he should have walked with Valentino into that meeting with the warden. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was feeling, taking on responsibility that he should have done more to help Rodriguez. So he felt responsible. He took on responsibility that wasn’t his.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steele also felt responsible for the investigation into the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar. But that was another responsibility that wasn’t his to bear. He was not an internal affairs investigator. He didn’t have the authority to interview officers or track down every lead. It was his job and his explicit obligation to pass on any allegations or evidence of misconduct to higher ups. The Chief Deputy Warden, Gina Jones and the Warden Jeff Lynch. And from all the evidence we have been able to review, it appears that this is what he did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened to the case after it got handed up the chain? While that internal investigation was not released to us, we have been able to get a peek around the edges, and what we can see raises serious questions. First of all, what took so long? Internal emails that we got show that New Folsom officials delayed asking internal affairs to investigate, then the special agent assigned to the case also stalled conducting the investigation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An oversight agency did not conclude that that delay was intentional, but said the special agent also “failed to conduct effective interviews and didn’t talk to a crucial witness.” It’s not clear which witness they are talking about. But we do know they never got that final interview with Kevin Steele. The interview that a special agent called him about on the last day of his life. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell Tinkerbell that internal affairs investigation did result in the discipline of three officers. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The guy who didn’t fire his mini 14 or didn’t- said he didn’t have his mini 14 on him — who was the Tower guard — he got a 5% salary reduction for three months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This incident was over 60 seconds long. I don’t wanna hear that. That’s such bullshit. He failed to act: violation. I cannot wrap my head around it. What else happened to the other officers? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I tell her there was one officer who failed to respond to alarms both during the stabbing of Michael Britt and then again during the Aguilar homicide. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he got a 5% salary reduction for 12 months. Um, the third person who was disciplined, who got the highest discipline, was the one who took a video of the video.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was an officer who’d used his phone to take a video of the surveillance footage of the homicide, and then he’d shared it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what he got disciplined for — not for failing to protect the inmates or failing to respond or, you know, letting people outta their cuffs or any of that. It was for the video, um, for sharing the video. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, like, I just don’t understand how, I don’t understand how they haven’t been prosecuted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well also like, we just kind of found out, like through our investigation that they were not like- none of the officers were interviewed about this, um, by OIA until after Kevin was dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are fucking kidding me? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was a murder in the institution where all of these people failed to fucking respond. There was two, two for sure incidents and then a fucking dry run. There was videos of all of this that Kevin gave and that they didn’t fuck-ing interview anybody? Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has to pause for a moment to collect herself. She looks through her phone and reads out a message from Steele.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“How to kill a cop. I know. Alone, betrayed, enveloped in corruption.” These are like some of the, the texts that Steele sent me, like he was just… “Broken, betrayal, double crossed and sold out.” These are things that Kevin sent me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tinkerbell says, what Steele did — coming forward — was incredibly hard to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you know how much courage it must have taken Kevin and Val to go to them and try to expose the wrongdoing? Do you know how much courage that must have taken?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the years, she says she’s witnessed and heard about a lot of things that troubled her, but she was afraid to come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so many people that want to say something, but the fear… As a parent, right? What are some of our biggest fears? Our kids going to prison, us getting a call that something happened to them, finding out they have a medical issue that’s not curable. That fear has got nothing on the daily fear that you, you deal with walking into an institution if you’re viewed in a bad light. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said she’s talking to us now because she doesn’t want what happened to Steele and what happened to Valentino to happen to anyone else. But that doesn’t mean she isn’t still afraid. She is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am, you know, willing to subject myself, when people find out or if people find out — I know it’s not if I know it’s a matter of when — that I’m just a two-faced inmate-loving rat piece of shit who’s trying to get good officers in trouble. And my view is that if they were good officers, they wouldn’t have done criminal activity. So don’t you put that on me. I didn’t make those decisions. I made the decision to not come forward with a lot of the information that I had because I was so afraid for my safety, my family’s safety, and my livelihood after.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since we aired her voice in that last episode three weeks ago, Tinkerbell has gotten a lot of calls and texts from people who recognized her voice. She’s also been called a dirty cop, publicly, by someone she doesn’t even know. But she still said we could use her voice in this episode. And she said she hopes other people can find the courage to do the right thing and come forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But my journey is the exact sames as Kevin’s in regards to we want people held accountable. And at the time, Val, Val was still’s motivation. Okay? Val and Kevin are a part of my motivation, but they’re not my sole motivation. My motivation is I want this to stop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up next time in our final episode, Julie and I walk through the gates of New Folsom prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t usually stress out, but I haven’t been in a prison for a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh here we go, CSP-Sac.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You feeling it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m feeling it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we speak to two correctional officers who did wanna go on the record with us, because like Tinkerbell, they’ve seen too many of their fellow officers pay a price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Annette Eichorn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, two of them that are dead. Because to find the truth. That should shock the shit out of everybody that’s still there. And I don’t understand how it’s not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season Two: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauléon. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fuda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR and KQED’s Ted Goldberg. And thank you to Alan Lurie of BOA Security who walked me through the mechanics of the transport boxes and the handcuffs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor Jr, Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "What to Know About California's Fast-Food Wage Increase",
"headTitle": "What to Know About California’s Fast-Food Wage Increase | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>Starting Monday, April 1, fast food restaurants operating in California will be required to raise the minimum wage for their workers to $20 per hour — \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/minimum_wage.htm\">an increase of four dollars an hour from the previous minimum wage\u003c/a>. Employers are \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">not allowed to include tips \u003c/a>in the wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California lawmakers approved AB 1228 last September, which ordered an increase in the wages of the state’s fast food workers and also established a Fast Food Council which is \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">“empowered both to make future increases to the minimum wage and to adopt other minimum employment standards for fast food restaurants.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Living wages and worker safety should be a priority for corporate fast-food companies,” said Joseph Bryan, the Executive Vice President of the Service Employees International Union in a statement. “The vast majority of fast-food locations in California operate under the most profitable brands in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those corporations need to pay their fair share and provide their operators with the resources they need to pay their workers a living wage without cutting jobs or passing the cost to consumers,” said Bryan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But who exactly is eligible for this new wage rise? And what can you do if you’re a fast food worker and your boss isn’t providing you with this increased wage? Keep reading for what to know about California’s fast food minimum wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#one\">Can all fast food workers get this $20 minimum wage?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#two\">Which fast food workers are ineligible for the wage rise?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#three\">My boss is now refusing to pay me more. What can I do?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"one\">\u003c/a>Which fast food workers will receive California’s minimum wage increase?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>This new law applies to all fast food establishments that have sixty or more locations throughout the nation with at least one of locations in California, according to Veronica Chavez, the directing attorney at legal services nonprofit \u003ca href=\"https://www.centrolegal.org/\">Centro Legal de la Raza \u003c/a>in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what counts as “fast food” here? The state says that to be subject to the new $20 minimum wage rise,\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\"> the establishment must be a “limited-service” restaurant in California\u003c/a>: That is, “one that offers limited or no table service, where the customers order food or beverage items and pay for those items before the items are consumed” and which is “primarily engaged in selling food and beverages for immediate consumption.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said restaurants that should comply would also include places that people may not typically associate with fast food, including boba tea shops, cafes and ice cream parlors. The state is clear that \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">this wage rise “does not depend on what type of food or beverage an establishment sells.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">Read more information about which establishments count as “fast food.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"two\">\u003c/a>Are there exemptions to the fast food minimum wage increase?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/california-minimum-wage-fast-food-workers/\">The state’s exemptions from the new law \u003c/a>are already causing some confusion. They include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Restaurants \u003cem>inside \u003c/em>grocery stores\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This means that if you’re employed by a grocery store — even if you’re assigned to the fast food restaurant \u003cem>within \u003c/em>that store — you aren’t eligible for this minimum wage raise. But if you’re employed at a fast food restaurant that’s within another kind of store — not a grocery store — \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">the state says you are in fact eligible for the fast food raise\u003c/a>, but only for the hours you work inside the fast food restaurant itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Places that have a bakery onsite that produce bread to sell by itself \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If an establishment produces its own bread that is sold as a standalone item on its menu, then \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">the state says that location is exempt from the new fast food minimum wage rise\u003c/a> — as long as that menu item has been offered to customers since at least Sept. 15, 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11979186,news_11977956,news_11978492\"]But if your workplace makes its own bread that’s then sold at that location in the form of sandwiches or hamburgers — with no standalone bread items also on the menu — then the establishment is not exempt from paying its workers the $20 minimum wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the state, also exempted under “bread” are establishments that “sell stand-alone items weighing less than one-half pound after cooling, such as most muffins, croissants, scones, rolls, or buns, but do not sell bread weighing at least one-half pound after cooling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bread exemption has caught the attention of many, with Governor Gavin Newsom’s critics claiming that he was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978941/is-panera-gate-a-real-scandal-or-politics-as-usual\">sparing his donor Greg Flynn — the owner of Panera Bread — from the new law\u003c/a>. However, Flynn stated earlier this month that his chain\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978492/newsom-campaign-donor-to-follow-minimum-wage-law-at-his-panera-bread-restaurants-after-allegations-of-favoritism\"> will comply with the new law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fast food establishments within places like airports \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab610?slug=CA_202320240AB610&_gl=1*13kro3l*_ga*MjAzMDA3NDIxMy4xNzA1Njg2OTE4*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMTY1ODkzNy4xMS4xLjE3MTE2NTg5NjkuMjguMC4w*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMTY1ODkzOC4xMS4xLjE3MTE2NTg5NDMuMC4wLjA.\">The newest exemption to the fast food wage rise \u003c/a>was signed into law by Gov. Gavin Newsom just last week, exempting fast food establishments in places like airports, hotels, large event centers, theme parks and museums.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The last-minute bill states that these places “generally do not share the same characteristics as traditional fast food restaurants that are part of national fast food chains” on account of their factors including their “distinct economics and a captive customer base.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"three\">\u003c/a>I’m a fast food worker who’s eligible for the minimum wage increase, but my boss isn’t raising my pay. What can I do?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>AB 1228 specifically states that California’s Labor Commissioner will be enforcing the new minimum wage law, said Centro Legal de la Raza’s Chavez. This agency investigates wage theft and wage violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Joseph Bryan, executive vice president, Service Employees International Union\"]‘Those corporations need to pay their fair share and provide their operators with the resources they need to pay their workers a living wage without cutting jobs or passing the cost to consumers.’[/pullquote]First, check your pay stubs, paying particular attention to the section that deals with your hourly wage to see if your employer is adhering to the new $20 minimum wage. If you get paid in cash, look over those earnings carefully too. \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">Remember, your employer is not allowed to include tips\u003c/a> — or meal or lodging credits employees might receive — in the new minimum wage rise, if you’re eligible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what if your boss is trying to do that, is falsely claiming your workplace is exempt from the new law, or is straight-up refusing to pay you the raise you’re owed as an eligible fast food worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said that if your employer is not complying with the new law, you can:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm\">File an individual wage claim\u003c/a> through the Labor Commissioner’s Office.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Pursue action or a lawsuit in civil court. (Employees can file an \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm\">individual wage claim through the Labor Commissioner’s website\u003c/a>.) File \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToReportViolationtoBOFE.htm\">a Report of Labor Law Violation\u003c/a> (although you should be aware that this particular report \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">“does not pursue individual claims, but may investigate and cite the employer.”\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Fast food employers must also publicly \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/iwc/MW-2024-FF-SUPPLEMENT.pdf\">post a notice of the minimum wage increase inside the establishment (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said she recommended having communications with an employer in writing, “so that there is evidence of the employer failing to comply or whatever the response is … but hopefully just a conversation with them in person and then following up via text or email will suffice and help get the employer to make the necessary change.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some workers may feel extra nervous about having these complicated conversations, especially if they fear that their employer will retaliate against them by cutting their wages or hours or firing them. If an employee is worried about retaliation, Chavez said one could file \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/rci_osha_complaint.htm\">a compliance complaint with the Labor Commissioner\u003c/a>. You can also call (714) 558-4913 or email \u003ca href=\"mailto:osharetaliation@dir.ca.gov\">osharetaliation@dir.ca.gov\u003c/a>. Legal protections against retaliation in California also extend to undocumented workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Area organizations that offer free legal aid to workers include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://legalaidatwork.org/clinics-and-helplines/\">Legal Aid at Work\u003c/a>: (415) 864-8208\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.advancingjustice-alc.org/get-help\">Asian Americans Advancing Justice/Asian Law Caucus\u003c/a>: (415) 896-1701\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.centrolegal.org/\">Centro Legal de la Raza\u003c/a>: (510) 437-1554\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What is this ‘Fast Food Council’?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The new minimum wage law for fast food workers also created a Fast Food Council, which will meet to discuss employment standards within the industry like working hours and conditions – and could potentially set a new minimum wage increase from 2025 and onwards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">the state\u003c/a>, the “hourly minimum wage established by the Council can increase every year by either 3.5% or the increase in the consumer price index, whichever is smaller. The Fast Food Council can establish a single statewide minimum wage for fast food restaurant employees or vary the minimum wage by region of the State.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Council \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">includes not just representatives from the industry and workers advocates but also fast food employees\u003c/a> themselves. The Council will also have two non-voting members from the Department of Industrial Relations and the Governor’s Office of Business and Economic Development, and meetings will all be open to the public.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[The Fast Food Council] is really unique to California and I think it’s great,” Chavez said. “We know that restaurant workers are unfortunately some of the lowest paid workers who often have safety issues — who encounter health violations and have to work through all that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What could the future look like for the fast food minimum wage?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The minimum wage really is not something that results in livable wages,” said Chavez, who noted that “poverty wages” resulted in workers needing to take on multiple jobs and really struggle.” According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Living Wage Calculation for California, \u003ca href=\"https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/06\">an adult with no children would need to make $27.32\u003c/a> per hour in the state to make a living wage. An adult with a child would need to make $47.96 per hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Roosevelt Institute think tank also \u003ca href=\"https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/fast-food-industry-profiteering/\">released an analysis\u003c/a> stating that it was possible for establishments to pay their employees more without increasing consumer prices — \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-03-27/fast-food-minimum-wage\">something that some fast food business representatives in California have claimed they’ll now have to do\u003c/a> in the light of the April 1 minimum wage hike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Between 2014 and 2023, \u003ca href=\"https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/fast-food-industry-profiteering/\">fast-food prices increased by 46.8 percent compared to 28.7 percent for the average of all prices\u003c/a>,” the Roosevelt Institute analysis states. “Evidence of fast-food firms’ recent profiteering makes it clear that the upcoming implementation of a fast-food minimum wage of $20 per hour in California will not necessitate price hikes or employment losses, because profits in the industry are sufficiently high to absorb the greater operating costs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joseph Bryan, the Executive Vice President of the Service Employees International Union and now member of the new Food Council said employers made price hikes and job cut threats when \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/08/06/california-passed-15-an-hour-two-years-ago-hows-it-working/?sh=6eb96624fa4f\">California set the minimum wage to $15 per hou\u003c/a>r.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The minimum wage in California has gone up every year since 2015,” said Bryan. “On the same timeline, fast food restaurants in California added 142,000 jobs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The top nine publicly traded fast food companies alone took in nearly $25 billion in profits in 2023,” he said, adding that “multiple studies” had demonstrated that “higher wages lead to increased worker retention, recruitment and job growth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Carly Severn and Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Starting Monday, April 1, fast food restaurants operating in California will be required to raise the minimum wage for their workers to $20 per hour — \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/minimum_wage.htm\">an increase of four dollars an hour from the previous minimum wage\u003c/a>. Employers are \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">not allowed to include tips \u003c/a>in the wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California lawmakers approved AB 1228 last September, which ordered an increase in the wages of the state’s fast food workers and also established a Fast Food Council which is \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">“empowered both to make future increases to the minimum wage and to adopt other minimum employment standards for fast food restaurants.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Living wages and worker safety should be a priority for corporate fast-food companies,” said Joseph Bryan, the Executive Vice President of the Service Employees International Union in a statement. “The vast majority of fast-food locations in California operate under the most profitable brands in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those corporations need to pay their fair share and provide their operators with the resources they need to pay their workers a living wage without cutting jobs or passing the cost to consumers,” said Bryan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But who exactly is eligible for this new wage rise? And what can you do if you’re a fast food worker and your boss isn’t providing you with this increased wage? Keep reading for what to know about California’s fast food minimum wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#one\">Can all fast food workers get this $20 minimum wage?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#two\">Which fast food workers are ineligible for the wage rise?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#three\">My boss is now refusing to pay me more. What can I do?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"one\">\u003c/a>Which fast food workers will receive California’s minimum wage increase?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>This new law applies to all fast food establishments that have sixty or more locations throughout the nation with at least one of locations in California, according to Veronica Chavez, the directing attorney at legal services nonprofit \u003ca href=\"https://www.centrolegal.org/\">Centro Legal de la Raza \u003c/a>in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what counts as “fast food” here? The state says that to be subject to the new $20 minimum wage rise,\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\"> the establishment must be a “limited-service” restaurant in California\u003c/a>: That is, “one that offers limited or no table service, where the customers order food or beverage items and pay for those items before the items are consumed” and which is “primarily engaged in selling food and beverages for immediate consumption.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said restaurants that should comply would also include places that people may not typically associate with fast food, including boba tea shops, cafes and ice cream parlors. The state is clear that \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">this wage rise “does not depend on what type of food or beverage an establishment sells.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">Read more information about which establishments count as “fast food.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"two\">\u003c/a>Are there exemptions to the fast food minimum wage increase?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/california-minimum-wage-fast-food-workers/\">The state’s exemptions from the new law \u003c/a>are already causing some confusion. They include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Restaurants \u003cem>inside \u003c/em>grocery stores\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This means that if you’re employed by a grocery store — even if you’re assigned to the fast food restaurant \u003cem>within \u003c/em>that store — you aren’t eligible for this minimum wage raise. But if you’re employed at a fast food restaurant that’s within another kind of store — not a grocery store — \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">the state says you are in fact eligible for the fast food raise\u003c/a>, but only for the hours you work inside the fast food restaurant itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Places that have a bakery onsite that produce bread to sell by itself \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If an establishment produces its own bread that is sold as a standalone item on its menu, then \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">the state says that location is exempt from the new fast food minimum wage rise\u003c/a> — as long as that menu item has been offered to customers since at least Sept. 15, 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>But if your workplace makes its own bread that’s then sold at that location in the form of sandwiches or hamburgers — with no standalone bread items also on the menu — then the establishment is not exempt from paying its workers the $20 minimum wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the state, also exempted under “bread” are establishments that “sell stand-alone items weighing less than one-half pound after cooling, such as most muffins, croissants, scones, rolls, or buns, but do not sell bread weighing at least one-half pound after cooling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bread exemption has caught the attention of many, with Governor Gavin Newsom’s critics claiming that he was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978941/is-panera-gate-a-real-scandal-or-politics-as-usual\">sparing his donor Greg Flynn — the owner of Panera Bread — from the new law\u003c/a>. However, Flynn stated earlier this month that his chain\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11978492/newsom-campaign-donor-to-follow-minimum-wage-law-at-his-panera-bread-restaurants-after-allegations-of-favoritism\"> will comply with the new law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fast food establishments within places like airports \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab610?slug=CA_202320240AB610&_gl=1*13kro3l*_ga*MjAzMDA3NDIxMy4xNzA1Njg2OTE4*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMTY1ODkzNy4xMS4xLjE3MTE2NTg5NjkuMjguMC4w*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMTY1ODkzOC4xMS4xLjE3MTE2NTg5NDMuMC4wLjA.\">The newest exemption to the fast food wage rise \u003c/a>was signed into law by Gov. Gavin Newsom just last week, exempting fast food establishments in places like airports, hotels, large event centers, theme parks and museums.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The last-minute bill states that these places “generally do not share the same characteristics as traditional fast food restaurants that are part of national fast food chains” on account of their factors including their “distinct economics and a captive customer base.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"three\">\u003c/a>I’m a fast food worker who’s eligible for the minimum wage increase, but my boss isn’t raising my pay. What can I do?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>AB 1228 specifically states that California’s Labor Commissioner will be enforcing the new minimum wage law, said Centro Legal de la Raza’s Chavez. This agency investigates wage theft and wage violations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>First, check your pay stubs, paying particular attention to the section that deals with your hourly wage to see if your employer is adhering to the new $20 minimum wage. If you get paid in cash, look over those earnings carefully too. \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">Remember, your employer is not allowed to include tips\u003c/a> — or meal or lodging credits employees might receive — in the new minimum wage rise, if you’re eligible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But what if your boss is trying to do that, is falsely claiming your workplace is exempt from the new law, or is straight-up refusing to pay you the raise you’re owed as an eligible fast food worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said that if your employer is not complying with the new law, you can:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm\">File an individual wage claim\u003c/a> through the Labor Commissioner’s Office.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Pursue action or a lawsuit in civil court. (Employees can file an \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm\">individual wage claim through the Labor Commissioner’s website\u003c/a>.) File \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToReportViolationtoBOFE.htm\">a Report of Labor Law Violation\u003c/a> (although you should be aware that this particular report \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm\">“does not pursue individual claims, but may investigate and cite the employer.”\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Fast food employers must also publicly \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/iwc/MW-2024-FF-SUPPLEMENT.pdf\">post a notice of the minimum wage increase inside the establishment (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez said she recommended having communications with an employer in writing, “so that there is evidence of the employer failing to comply or whatever the response is … but hopefully just a conversation with them in person and then following up via text or email will suffice and help get the employer to make the necessary change.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some workers may feel extra nervous about having these complicated conversations, especially if they fear that their employer will retaliate against them by cutting their wages or hours or firing them. If an employee is worried about retaliation, Chavez said one could file \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/rci_osha_complaint.htm\">a compliance complaint with the Labor Commissioner\u003c/a>. You can also call (714) 558-4913 or email \u003ca href=\"mailto:osharetaliation@dir.ca.gov\">osharetaliation@dir.ca.gov\u003c/a>. Legal protections against retaliation in California also extend to undocumented workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Area organizations that offer free legal aid to workers include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://legalaidatwork.org/clinics-and-helplines/\">Legal Aid at Work\u003c/a>: (415) 864-8208\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.advancingjustice-alc.org/get-help\">Asian Americans Advancing Justice/Asian Law Caucus\u003c/a>: (415) 896-1701\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.centrolegal.org/\">Centro Legal de la Raza\u003c/a>: (510) 437-1554\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What is this ‘Fast Food Council’?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The new minimum wage law for fast food workers also created a Fast Food Council, which will meet to discuss employment standards within the industry like working hours and conditions – and could potentially set a new minimum wage increase from 2025 and onwards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">the state\u003c/a>, the “hourly minimum wage established by the Council can increase every year by either 3.5% or the increase in the consumer price index, whichever is smaller. The Fast Food Council can establish a single statewide minimum wage for fast food restaurant employees or vary the minimum wage by region of the State.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Council \u003ca href=\"https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Fast-Food-Minimum-Wage-FAQ.htm#:~:text=When%20does%20the%20minimum%20wage,Yes.\">includes not just representatives from the industry and workers advocates but also fast food employees\u003c/a> themselves. The Council will also have two non-voting members from the Department of Industrial Relations and the Governor’s Office of Business and Economic Development, and meetings will all be open to the public.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[The Fast Food Council] is really unique to California and I think it’s great,” Chavez said. “We know that restaurant workers are unfortunately some of the lowest paid workers who often have safety issues — who encounter health violations and have to work through all that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What could the future look like for the fast food minimum wage?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The minimum wage really is not something that results in livable wages,” said Chavez, who noted that “poverty wages” resulted in workers needing to take on multiple jobs and really struggle.” According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Living Wage Calculation for California, \u003ca href=\"https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/06\">an adult with no children would need to make $27.32\u003c/a> per hour in the state to make a living wage. An adult with a child would need to make $47.96 per hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Roosevelt Institute think tank also \u003ca href=\"https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/fast-food-industry-profiteering/\">released an analysis\u003c/a> stating that it was possible for establishments to pay their employees more without increasing consumer prices — \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-03-27/fast-food-minimum-wage\">something that some fast food business representatives in California have claimed they’ll now have to do\u003c/a> in the light of the April 1 minimum wage hike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Between 2014 and 2023, \u003ca href=\"https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/fast-food-industry-profiteering/\">fast-food prices increased by 46.8 percent compared to 28.7 percent for the average of all prices\u003c/a>,” the Roosevelt Institute analysis states. “Evidence of fast-food firms’ recent profiteering makes it clear that the upcoming implementation of a fast-food minimum wage of $20 per hour in California will not necessitate price hikes or employment losses, because profits in the industry are sufficiently high to absorb the greater operating costs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joseph Bryan, the Executive Vice President of the Service Employees International Union and now member of the new Food Council said employers made price hikes and job cut threats when \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/08/06/california-passed-15-an-hour-two-years-ago-hows-it-working/?sh=6eb96624fa4f\">California set the minimum wage to $15 per hou\u003c/a>r.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The minimum wage in California has gone up every year since 2015,” said Bryan. “On the same timeline, fast food restaurants in California added 142,000 jobs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The top nine publicly traded fast food companies alone took in nearly $25 billion in profits in 2023,” he said, adding that “multiple studies” had demonstrated that “higher wages lead to increased worker retention, recruitment and job growth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Carly Severn and Carlos Cabrera-Lomelí contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Officials from public health departments across the Bay Area have urged residents to be vigilant for the symptoms of measles, especially after travel — and to be up-to-date on their measles vaccination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#measles-vaccine\">If I got the measles vaccine, could I still get measles?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The announcement comes a little more than a week after Alameda County’s public health department warned Bay Area residents of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980260/alameda-county-measles-exposure-sons-of-liberty-san-leandro\">a potential exposure to measles in an East Bay restaurant.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Health officers from the nine Bay Area counties — plus Monterey, Santa Cruz and San Benito — issued the call for vigilance in the light of this recent possible exposure and also a national rise in measles cases. \u003ca href=\"https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2024/pdf/CDC_HAN_504.pdf\">Over 90% of those cases have been linked to international travel (PDF)\u003c/a>, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The health officials said the risk of infection for residents in the Bay Area remains low, but still want people to be cautious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Symptoms include fever, cough, runny nose, and pink eye, followed a few days later by a rash. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/signs-symptoms.html\">These symptoms can emerge between seven and 21 days after exposure\u003c/a>. About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people who become infected with measles — a highly contagious virus that spreads through direct contact with infectious droplets — will \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html\">require hospitalization\u003c/a>, according to the CDC. In some people the disease can be fatal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for what you need to know about the rise in measles cases, the recent possible exposure in the Bay Area, the risks of international travel and how to make sure you’re vaccinated against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What should I know about the rise in measles cases?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As of March 28, 97 measles cases were reported across the United States, according to the CDC — 56% of which have resulted in hospitalization. This already represents a sharp rise from the entirety of 2023, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html\">in which there were a total of 58 measles cases reported nationally.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html\">In 2024 so far, there have been seven outbreaks of measles around the U.S.\u003c/a> — defined as three or more related cases. The CDC notes that for comparison, four outbreaks were reported during the whole of 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11980260 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/GettyImages-1203093159_qut-1020x680.jpg']“Most cases in the U.S. have been among children aged 12 months and older who had not received the MMR vaccine,” said the Bay Area health officers in their joint statement on March 29.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the state’s most recent data from March 20, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/measles.aspx\">five confirmed measles cases have been reported in California\u003c/a> so far in 2024 — a rise of one case in the last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The statement from local health officials noted that “With three major airports, the Bay Area is a hub for international travel, increasing the potential for exposure to this highly contagious virus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CDC notes that\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/data/global-measles-outbreaks.html\"> the COVID-19 pandemic has generally impacted vaccination rates globally\u003c/a> because “over 61 million doses of measles-containing vaccine were postponed or missed from 2020 to 2022” due to pandemic-related delays.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What should I know about the possible exposure in the East Bay this month?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>According to Alameda County officials, a person infected with measles was present at the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/SONS+OF+LIBERTY+ALEHOUSE/@37.7237984,-122.1552742,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x63e565bb445aae39?sa=X&ved=1t:2428&ictx=111\">Sons of Liberty Alehouse in San Leandro\u003c/a> back on Saturday, March 9 — and urged anyone who was also at the restaurant between 4:45 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. that day to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980260/alameda-county-measles-exposure-sons-of-liberty-san-leandro#measlesexposurealameda\">reach out to their health care provider and the Alameda County Public Health Department \u003c/a>if they or anyone else present is unvaccinated or in a high-risk group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a press conference on March 20, Alameda County Public Health Department’s director of clinical guidance and communicable disease controller Dr. Kavita Trivedi stressed that this was not being treated as a measles outbreak, but urged anyone who may have been exposed to monitor themselves for symptoms of measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the Alameda County Public Health Department confirmed that as of March 29, “no additional cases of measles have been reported to us at this time” — although the county was continuing “to monitor persons exposed for 21 days.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>I’m planning on traveling internationally soon. What should I know?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Bay Area health officials’ statement noted that anyone planning to travel outside the U.S. “who is not vaccinated against measles is at increased risk of getting infected.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They urged travelers to plan early and to “check your destination and \u003ca href=\"https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/level1/measles-globe\">the CDC’s Global Measles Travel Health Notice\u003c/a> for more travel health advice, including where measles outbreaks have been reported.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Association of Bay Area Health Officials\"]‘Most cases in the US have been among children aged 12 months and older who had not received the MMR vaccine.’[/pullquote]Parents, they said, should reach out to their child’s health care provider before any international travel. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html\">Babies and young children are especially at risk from measles\u003c/a>, but the measles vaccine is routinely recommended only for children 12 months and older — so if you intend to travel internationally with a child aged between 6 and 12 months, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/plan-for-travel.html\">you may be able to secure them an early MMR vaccination\u003c/a> due to the measles risk they may face abroad being unvaccinated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Returning travelers should watch for any symptoms of measles for a total of three weeks after arriving back home, the Bay Area health officials said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trivedi from Alameda County’s public health department said that the infectious person who was at Sons of Liberty Alehouse on March 9 was unaware they had measles at the time of their visit, and that “we believe the person contracted measles while traveling internationally a few weeks prior to illness.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The county would not disclose the exact location of this person’s travel for confidentiality reasons, said Trivedi, who instead pointed people to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/data/global-measles-outbreaks.html\">the CDC’s list of international countries with current measles outbreaks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"measles-vaccine\">\u003c/a>I’m vaccinated against measles. Could I still get infected with measles from an exposure like this?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Four years of the COVID-19 pandemic have taught us that being vaccinated against a virus doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t get infected with that virus. The COVID-19 vaccine, for example, does somewhat reduce your chances of being infected — although \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/5-things-you-should-know.html\">the CDC said that “protection against infection tends to be modest and sometimes short-lived”\u003c/a> — but it also means you’re much less likely to get severely ill if you do get infected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#:~:text=Could%20I%20still%20get%20measles,should%20have%20to%20the%20vaccine.\">the measles vaccine \u003cem>is \u003c/em>incredibly effective at protecting against infections, the CDC said\u003c/a>, and two doses of measles vaccine are “about 97% effective” at preventing measles if you’re exposed. (One dose, the CDC said, is “about 93% effective.”)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for why “about three out of 100” people vaccinated against measles will still get measles after exposure, the CDC said that experts “aren’t sure why” and that this could be due to the responsiveness of an individual’s immune system to the vaccine. “But the good news is, fully vaccinated people who get measles seem more likely to have a milder illness,” the CDC said — and fully vaccinated people “seem also less likely to spread the disease to other people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>I don’t know if I’m vaccinated against measles. How can I check?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Measles is preventable with the combined Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) vaccine, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html\">vaccination against measles has been part of routine childhood immunization for decades\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html\">The CDC recommends that children get two doses of the MMR vaccine\u003c/a>, starting with the first dose at 12–15 months old with the second dose at 4–6 years of age. This vaccine provides lifetime protection against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Everyone over 12 months of age is recommended to get vaccinated against measles, although the combined Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella (MMRV) vaccine is \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html\">only licensed for use in children under 12 years of age\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re uncertain whether you’re vaccinated against measles, you can \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/records/keeping-track.html\">check your immunization records\u003c/a> by using \u003ca href=\"https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/\">the California Department of Public Health’s Digital Vaccine Record portal\u003c/a>, or contact your provider (or your child’s pediatrician) for further information about your current levels of protection against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another reason to check your vaccination status if you’re unsure: According to Bay Area health officials, possessing documentation of your vaccination status “can help you avoid being quarantined if you are exposed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And if you can’t find any sign you or your family have received a measles vaccine? “Teenagers and adults with no evidence of immunity should be vaccinated right away,” said the local health officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story contains reporting from KQED’s Samantha Lim.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Officials from public health departments across the Bay Area have urged residents to be vigilant for the symptoms of measles, especially after travel — and to be up-to-date on their measles vaccination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#measles-vaccine\">If I got the measles vaccine, could I still get measles?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The announcement comes a little more than a week after Alameda County’s public health department warned Bay Area residents of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980260/alameda-county-measles-exposure-sons-of-liberty-san-leandro\">a potential exposure to measles in an East Bay restaurant.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Health officers from the nine Bay Area counties — plus Monterey, Santa Cruz and San Benito — issued the call for vigilance in the light of this recent possible exposure and also a national rise in measles cases. \u003ca href=\"https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2024/pdf/CDC_HAN_504.pdf\">Over 90% of those cases have been linked to international travel (PDF)\u003c/a>, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The health officials said the risk of infection for residents in the Bay Area remains low, but still want people to be cautious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Symptoms include fever, cough, runny nose, and pink eye, followed a few days later by a rash. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/signs-symptoms.html\">These symptoms can emerge between seven and 21 days after exposure\u003c/a>. About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people who become infected with measles — a highly contagious virus that spreads through direct contact with infectious droplets — will \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html\">require hospitalization\u003c/a>, according to the CDC. In some people the disease can be fatal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for what you need to know about the rise in measles cases, the recent possible exposure in the Bay Area, the risks of international travel and how to make sure you’re vaccinated against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What should I know about the rise in measles cases?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As of March 28, 97 measles cases were reported across the United States, according to the CDC — 56% of which have resulted in hospitalization. This already represents a sharp rise from the entirety of 2023, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html\">in which there were a total of 58 measles cases reported nationally.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html\">In 2024 so far, there have been seven outbreaks of measles around the U.S.\u003c/a> — defined as three or more related cases. The CDC notes that for comparison, four outbreaks were reported during the whole of 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“Most cases in the U.S. have been among children aged 12 months and older who had not received the MMR vaccine,” said the Bay Area health officers in their joint statement on March 29.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to the state’s most recent data from March 20, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/measles.aspx\">five confirmed measles cases have been reported in California\u003c/a> so far in 2024 — a rise of one case in the last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The statement from local health officials noted that “With three major airports, the Bay Area is a hub for international travel, increasing the potential for exposure to this highly contagious virus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CDC notes that\u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/data/global-measles-outbreaks.html\"> the COVID-19 pandemic has generally impacted vaccination rates globally\u003c/a> because “over 61 million doses of measles-containing vaccine were postponed or missed from 2020 to 2022” due to pandemic-related delays.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>What should I know about the possible exposure in the East Bay this month?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>According to Alameda County officials, a person infected with measles was present at the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/maps/place/SONS+OF+LIBERTY+ALEHOUSE/@37.7237984,-122.1552742,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x63e565bb445aae39?sa=X&ved=1t:2428&ictx=111\">Sons of Liberty Alehouse in San Leandro\u003c/a> back on Saturday, March 9 — and urged anyone who was also at the restaurant between 4:45 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. that day to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11980260/alameda-county-measles-exposure-sons-of-liberty-san-leandro#measlesexposurealameda\">reach out to their health care provider and the Alameda County Public Health Department \u003c/a>if they or anyone else present is unvaccinated or in a high-risk group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a press conference on March 20, Alameda County Public Health Department’s director of clinical guidance and communicable disease controller Dr. Kavita Trivedi stressed that this was not being treated as a measles outbreak, but urged anyone who may have been exposed to monitor themselves for symptoms of measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the Alameda County Public Health Department confirmed that as of March 29, “no additional cases of measles have been reported to us at this time” — although the county was continuing “to monitor persons exposed for 21 days.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>I’m planning on traveling internationally soon. What should I know?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Bay Area health officials’ statement noted that anyone planning to travel outside the U.S. “who is not vaccinated against measles is at increased risk of getting infected.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They urged travelers to plan early and to “check your destination and \u003ca href=\"https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/level1/measles-globe\">the CDC’s Global Measles Travel Health Notice\u003c/a> for more travel health advice, including where measles outbreaks have been reported.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Parents, they said, should reach out to their child’s health care provider before any international travel. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html\">Babies and young children are especially at risk from measles\u003c/a>, but the measles vaccine is routinely recommended only for children 12 months and older — so if you intend to travel internationally with a child aged between 6 and 12 months, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/plan-for-travel.html\">you may be able to secure them an early MMR vaccination\u003c/a> due to the measles risk they may face abroad being unvaccinated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Returning travelers should watch for any symptoms of measles for a total of three weeks after arriving back home, the Bay Area health officials said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trivedi from Alameda County’s public health department said that the infectious person who was at Sons of Liberty Alehouse on March 9 was unaware they had measles at the time of their visit, and that “we believe the person contracted measles while traveling internationally a few weeks prior to illness.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The county would not disclose the exact location of this person’s travel for confidentiality reasons, said Trivedi, who instead pointed people to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/data/global-measles-outbreaks.html\">the CDC’s list of international countries with current measles outbreaks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"measles-vaccine\">\u003c/a>I’m vaccinated against measles. Could I still get infected with measles from an exposure like this?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Four years of the COVID-19 pandemic have taught us that being vaccinated against a virus doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t get infected with that virus. The COVID-19 vaccine, for example, does somewhat reduce your chances of being infected — although \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/5-things-you-should-know.html\">the CDC said that “protection against infection tends to be modest and sometimes short-lived”\u003c/a> — but it also means you’re much less likely to get severely ill if you do get infected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html#:~:text=Could%20I%20still%20get%20measles,should%20have%20to%20the%20vaccine.\">the measles vaccine \u003cem>is \u003c/em>incredibly effective at protecting against infections, the CDC said\u003c/a>, and two doses of measles vaccine are “about 97% effective” at preventing measles if you’re exposed. (One dose, the CDC said, is “about 93% effective.”)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As for why “about three out of 100” people vaccinated against measles will still get measles after exposure, the CDC said that experts “aren’t sure why” and that this could be due to the responsiveness of an individual’s immune system to the vaccine. “But the good news is, fully vaccinated people who get measles seem more likely to have a milder illness,” the CDC said — and fully vaccinated people “seem also less likely to spread the disease to other people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>I don’t know if I’m vaccinated against measles. How can I check?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Measles is preventable with the combined Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) vaccine, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html\">vaccination against measles has been part of routine childhood immunization for decades\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html\">The CDC recommends that children get two doses of the MMR vaccine\u003c/a>, starting with the first dose at 12–15 months old with the second dose at 4–6 years of age. This vaccine provides lifetime protection against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Everyone over 12 months of age is recommended to get vaccinated against measles, although the combined Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella (MMRV) vaccine is \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html\">only licensed for use in children under 12 years of age\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re uncertain whether you’re vaccinated against measles, you can \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/records/keeping-track.html\">check your immunization records\u003c/a> by using \u003ca href=\"https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/\">the California Department of Public Health’s Digital Vaccine Record portal\u003c/a>, or contact your provider (or your child’s pediatrician) for further information about your current levels of protection against measles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another reason to check your vaccination status if you’re unsure: According to Bay Area health officials, possessing documentation of your vaccination status “can help you avoid being quarantined if you are exposed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And if you can’t find any sign you or your family have received a measles vaccine? “Teenagers and adults with no evidence of immunity should be vaccinated right away,” said the local health officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story contains reporting from KQED’s Samantha Lim.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "why-dont-more-bay-area-kids-ride-school-buses",
"title": "Why Doesn't California Have More School Buses?",
"publishDate": 1711620004,
"format": "standard",
"headTitle": "Why Doesn’t California Have More School Buses? | KQED",
"labelTerm": {},
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weekday mornings are unquestionably hectic for many of us. We’re up early and out the door, headed towards some kind of commute to work. However, adding the responsibility of getting children through that morning routine and to school on time can feel like the day’s biggest accomplishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Jules Winters first moved to the San Francisco Bay Area from the East Coast, she worried that in that morning rush, she’d get stuck behind a school bus stopping every couple of blocks to pick up kids. She knew from experience that it could make her late to work. But, soon, that concern turned to puzzlement because it never happened. Instead, she noticed a lot of traffic jams around schools at drop-off and pick-up times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Now, I’m not going anywhere near [a] school because of all the parents dropping off their kids,” she says. “Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?” she wondered. “Why is that now the obligation of the family? And how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>It goes back to Proposition 13\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Winters isn’t wrong. California has fewer school buses than in other parts of the country. A survey conducted by the Federal Highway Administration found that nationally, almost 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is only 8%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many questions related to school funding and services, the answer to Winters’ question has roots in the passage of Proposition 13, a constitutional amendment that limited how much a homeowner’s property taxes could increase each year. Property taxes were the primary way school districts funded themselves back then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis,” says Sam Speroni, a doctoral researcher at the UCLA Institute of Transportation Studies and a researcher at San Jose State’s Mineta Transportation Institute. “So in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost of living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11980731\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11980731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg\" alt=\"A line of kids boards a yellow school bus.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Across the country, about 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is closer to 8%. \u003ccite>( Ben Hasty/MediaNews Group/Reading Eagle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the intervening years, California’s population has grown, including school-aged children, but the transportation budget has largely stayed the same. That has forced districts to shoulder more of the costs associated with providing school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, ‘do we continue providing buses or do we eliminate in-school-house services that are also super important?’” Speroni says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts are federally mandated to provide buses to certain groups of students, like those who have transportation, as part of their Individualized Education Program (IEP). However, California does not require school districts to offer school transportation to general education students. As the demands on the school budgets have grown, many districts have chosen not to prioritize school bus funding, which is costly.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Buses to serve equity goals\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Low-income families and families of color often travel the furthest to get to school and have the least resources at their disposal. In recognition of that, some Bay Area districts fund a small number of buses to help meet their equity goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley Unified School District assigns elementary students to zones and then places them in schools with an eye toward socioeconomic diversity. The district uses census data on family income and parental education to help it do this. If the student lives further than 1 1/2 miles from their assigned school, the district offers school buses to help them get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over 1,600 students ride the bus in Berkeley, about 18% of the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4087301904&light=true\" width=\"100%\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley’s commitment to school buses stems from a legacy of bussing for integration that goes back to 1968. Berkeley was the first sizable city with a large minority population to voluntarily start a two-way bussing program to both bring white students down from the hills and to take Black students up to the hill schools as a way to racially integrate the population of all its schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco also offers some school buses to general education students. It runs 35 buses for K–8 students each day, with routes that largely start on the southeast side of the city and bring kids to schools further north and west. The district says these routes help provide crucial access to language programs and offer more choices to families living in the southeast. The routes serve 46 schools and about 2,000 kids. Families sign up for the school bus when they enroll their children in elementary school. The routes and applications for spots on the bus are assigned at the educational placement center.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Partnering with public transit agencies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While many school districts in the San Francisco Bay Area do not provide dedicated school buses for general education students, they often partner with public transportation systems to help families get kids to school. In San Francisco, school-aged kids ride for free on Muni. SamTrans, serving schools in San Mateo County, offers free rides to low-income students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some school districts and public transportation agencies even work together to align schedules. For example, AC Transit, in the East Bay, offers Supplementary Service to School routes designed to align with school bell schedules and to cover the attendance boundaries of certain schools. AC Transit also discounts fares based on income requirements, as does Clipper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite these efforts, according to the Federal Highway Administration survey, only about 2% of California students take public buses to school. In contrast, 68% get a ride in a private vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Calls for school transportation reform\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Recently, there have been calls to reform California’s school transportation system. A 2014 Legislative Analyst’s Office report highlighted how underfunded the program had become and suggested several ways to reform it. In 2022, Newsom pledged state money to fund 60% of the cost of funding school transportation, the largest increase in years. The governor also allocated $1.5 billion in one-time funds to help districts transition to electric school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Nancy Skinner proposed a bill in 2022 that would provide universal access to school transportation for TK–12 public school students in the state. She argued that reliable transportation to school could reduce chronic absenteeism and improve school performance, especially for low-income students whose families more often don’t have cars. An analysis of the Skinner bill found it would cost the state $1.4 billion, which may be why, despite support in the Senate, it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The high cost of providing school buses, paired with the many demands on a school district’s budget, make changes to school transportation policy a tricky proposition going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Whenever Bay Curious listener Jules Winters thinks about her childhood growing up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, she thinks of her school bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>My bus driver was Ted for like, most of my life. This one time, there was a snowstorm that just hit, like out of nowhere, and it was like full-on blizzard. And I remember, like, we had been at school maybe only into like 9:00, and they were like, we got to get you out of here, like, now. And so they called all the buses. And we got on the bus with Ted, and we got stuck in a huge snowdrift on the way home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Jules doesn’t remember being scared in that moment, even though it was probably really stressful for Ted. She felt safe. She knew Ted would get her home, he always did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I have really good memories of taking the bus. Like, I met my best friend on the bus. She had moved into town over the summer and was just starting in a new school, and it’s kind of like I was the first person that she met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>So when she moved to California as an adult, Jules quickly noticed there weren’t many school buses moving kids around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I think it’s ironic that initially, I was concerned about traffic, with like being stuck behind a bus, because that was what I was used to on the East Coast. Now, it’s like, I’m not going anywhere near that school because of all the parents dropping off their kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I live a half block from a school, and trust me, some of the worst traffic jams happen around school start and end times. Since Jules has such positive memories of riding the bus as a student, it got her wondering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>And that led to a whole bunch more questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why is that now the obligation of the family and how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today on Bay Curious, we’re taking a closer look at how kids get to school, why it matters, and if it’s true that there aren’t as many school buses in California as there are in other places. I’m Olivia Alan Price. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sponsor message]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today, we’re digging into why you don’t see as many school buses around the Bay area as you might in other parts of the country. And to help answer some of Jules’ questions, we have Bay curious producer and longtime education reporter Katrina Schwartz. Welcome, Katrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Hi, Olivia. I was actually quite excited that we got an education question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Yeah, let’s get right into it. Is Jules right? Are there actually fewer school buses here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, Jules is correct. She’s actually put her finger on a real discrepancy. So there’s this survey that the Federal Highway Administration does across the country. And when you look nationwide, almost 40% of school-age kids ride a school bus. And that number has been fairly consistent across many decades. But here in California, only 8% of kids ride a school bus to school, which is the lowest in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Wow. 8%. You know, I wouldn’t have thought it was that low. Although I guess if I think about it, I don’t tend to see school buses very often when I’m out on the roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Right, because they really aren’t that common. In fact, I had a fair amount of trouble finding any kid that rode a school bus until I started asking around in Berkeley, where it is a little bit more common. So, I met Liz Christiano at her house in Berkeley. She actually volunteered to let me come over at this very stressful time in the morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano:\u003c/b> Good morning. Welcome, Katrina\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Getting ready time in order to meet up with her son James and his friend Eli, as they were having breakfast and getting ready to go to the school bus. They are both fourth graders at John Muir Elementary, and they remember the first time that they rode the school bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was kind of strange because, like, I didn’t know anybody, but then, like, I got used to it really quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>It wasn’t really scary. I guess it felt weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And they were not entirely positive about the experience but kind of resigned to it. I would say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was pretty loud. There’s like so many people talking at once. And then the bus driver, like, frequently stops or has to use the radio to tell people to be quiet or to stop using foul language on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>OK. That tracks. I remember not loving the bus all the time as a student, but I know that my mom appreciated that it meant she didn’t have to drive me to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, I think buses are really more for parents than they are for kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>My morning would be ridiculously stressful if I had to take him, even though we’re not that far away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Liz Christiano says she’s not even sure how she’d manage her morning without the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>The getting up and going. Having to manage all of the logistics of getting everywhere and everything on time is just… it’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>She has another child who’s younger, who goes to a preschool in Oakland. That school starts at the same time as James’ school. So if she was having to take them both to school, it would be this real logistical hurdle to juggle it all. And so she was just very thankful for the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>Having your kid picked up and taken somewhere and then delivered home the amount of life and cognitive space that you get back, I love it. I really love it. The mornings are so much better because of the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>James and Eli normally walk to the school bus together without their parents. It’s about a two-block walk. But this morning, because I was there, a bunch of kids met up and we all walked to the school bus together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>We’re about to have to go to the bus. Do you want to interview Mia or Micah? they’re also on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, Micah, how do you feel about the bus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Micah: \u003c/b>I like that parents still get to work as much as they want. And it’s just fun to ride in the bus with friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>What about you, Mia? How do you feel about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>I really like it. Because even if you’re late to the bus, all you have to do is run, and he’ll wait for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>He waits for you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>Yeah, and he laughs.\u003ci> (giggles)\u003c/i> This is my first year. So I was very nervous on the first day. I wasn’t expecting that my stop would be the first stop on the whole thing and that it would take like 20 minutes to get to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>Are you annoyed that it takes so long or is it OK?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>It’s OK because then I get to talk to my friends when they get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, is this the bus stop?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It’s a very sad bus stop because it has no sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And, pretty soon the bus pulled up. The kids all kind of gave their moms hugs and then got on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>What we’re trying to say, is the bus is amazing!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>No, we are not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Off they went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, it sounds like it’s working out really well for them. Why aren’t there more buses around California if it’s helping out this family so much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah. So this all goes back to Proposition 13, which is a constitutional amendment that passed in 1978. And it really limits how much property taxes can increase for homeowners, which is a big deal for school districts because, before Prop. 13, property taxes were the main way that school districts funded themselves. Since then, that burden has shifted more to the state because of Prop. 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I talked with Sam Speroni, who is a doctoral student at UCLA studying school transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>So, in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost-of-living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So over the past 40-plus years, California’s population has grown, though. So there’s just this one pot of money that really hasn’t changed that much, and more kids and more need. So, if districts want to offer school buses, they have to kind of shoulder more of the burden to pay for that. And that means tradeoffs. You know, you can’t pay for everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, do we continue providing busses or do we eliminate in school house services that are also super important?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Reading support specialist for example, or an extra social worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>And politically, it’s difficult to justify the elimination of teaching staff if school buses can be reduced first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Obviously, you said it’s an expensive prospect for school districts to think about doing this, but Berkeley is making a bigger investment than others to keep buses going. Why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So it goes back to the history of bussing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>The method is bussing, in itself one of the most controversial issues before boards of education throughout this country. But Berkeley is out to prove that it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You know, in the 1960s and 70s, school buses were one of the primary ways that districts tried to integrate their schools racially. There was a lot of segregation before that, and school bussing was a way of basically moving kids around, mixing them up, taking them to different neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>And with the use of 25 buses, 3,500 elementary children began to commute to and from White and Negro neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Trish McDermott is the senior communications director for Berkeley Unified, and she told me this history is fundamental to how Berkeley operates today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>In 1968, we integrated our elementary schools, and that really made Berkeley the first larger city in the country with a large minority enrollment to voluntarily desegregate schools. And we did that with our buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And Trish says even in progressive Berkeley, bussing for integration wasn’t always popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>Big, crowded school board meetings, a lot of pushback.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>They eventually got it done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>It’s change that we’re very proud of, and it really is the legacy of our transportation department as it exists today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Oxford is typical of a school in Berkeley’s white middle-class neighborhood. Last year, Oxford student body had one Negro member. Today, 40% of the 325 students are black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>It’s a progressive district, and they care about creating schools that are diverse and integrated. So, what they do is assign elementary school students to a zone, and then they look at the census for income data and parental education data to assign students to different schools. And then they use school buses to help kids and families get to the school that they were assigned to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Berkeley is doing this, but how does that stack up against all the other hundreds of school districts in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, it’s important to know that there’s no law in California that requires school districts to provide buses to general education students. So every district kind of looks at its budget and their student population and decides, you know, can we afford to do this or not? Is this where we want to spend our limited resources? You always have to make tradeoffs. So in a rural district, for example, they often prioritize school transportation because the distances are longer. There maybe aren’t any public transportation options for students, and the schools are more spread out. So bussing is sort of essential to getting kids to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I will say that every district does need to provide some school busses, because they are federally mandated to transport certain groups of students to school. So if a student has transportation as part of their Individualized Education program, for example, maybe they have a disability or something like that, then they get transportation to school, and that is federally mandated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One district that actually does provide school buses for general education kids is San Francisco, which might actually surprise some families in San Francisco because a lot of families have to drive their kids to school or walk them to school or find some other way to get there. But there are a few school buses, 35 buses that the district runs. And again, it is also for equity reasons, largely the routes start on the south side of the city where there’s often more kids. It tends to be like lower-income neighborhoods, and the routes take kids to the west side of the city, and that’s to provide access to language programs, other schools, and basically makes sure that they have access to the rest of the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>There must be families who would use bussing if it came to them, and it just doesn’t. What do those people do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, you know, some kids walk to school if they’re close enough, some kids bike to school. But about two-thirds of California students get a ride to school in a private vehicle. So obviously that’s not great for the environment. And it’s a big ask of families. I mean, plenty of people don’t have cars, so some districts try to help out by partnering with public transportation systems. So in San Francisco, for example, school kids can ride Muni for free. And the district says that every school is served by at least one Muni bus line or train line. In the East Bay. It’s AC transit, and they actually reach out to the school districts around them and try to align their bus schedules to the school. Will start and end times to make it easier for kids to ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> I’m here at De Anza High School in Richmond. And it’s interesting because, like, all the AC transit buses are waiting here, like school buses. They’re pulled up off the street in this little pick-up zone. And there’s a bunch of kids who came out of school who are waiting around for the buses to leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of fare machine beeping]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 20 minutes after school let out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> So all the kids are, like, crowded around the door waiting to get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of bus honking and accelerating]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The bus takes off. And it takes a route through the school boundary zone so that all these kids can get back home. But if there was another patron on the street who wanted to ride, they could easily get on the bus anywhere along the route.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, I imagine this, you know, really boils down to sort of a problem on the equity front, right? Because, OK, even if parents are able to take their kids to school because of their schedule, that still is going to mean they’re going to have to have a car that’s operational. That requires a certain amount of money. Be up to date on insurance. Or I mean, the other thing to consider is like, that’s going to limit the shift work that perhaps parents could do if they’re going to have to know that they need to be available to take their kid to school at a certain time. That’s a constraint that, especially if you’re living, you know, on a low-income salary, that’s just one more thing that you’re sort of juggling in an already pretty complicated life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I think it is an equity issue, although it’s a little bit unclear how big of one it is. I mean, obviously any family that has more flexibility and more mobility is going to have more choices. And all the things that you laid out are true. But there are a lot of other factors that make schools unequal in California. So it’s hard to say how much of a difference a school bus would really make to the whole big picture. One thing that Sam Speroni says, though, is that if California as a state wants to even the playing field for families by offering choices about what schools a family might send their kid to, transportation really needs to be part of that conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>Ultimately, you don’t have school choice if you don’t have transportation to those choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And then the other problem that Sam Speroni brought up — this is a national problem — there’s a huge school bus driver shortage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>With the buses we already have. We’re struggling to staff them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The school bus drivers have to have a special commercial driver’s license, which is also what you use for trucking or other types of delivery jobs. And often those jobs pay more. So in this current economy, it’s very hard to retain your school bus drivers. And we’re seeing that even in places that have much more robust bussing, they’re having a lot of trouble staffing their buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Now, given everything you’ve learned, are there likely to be any changes to how many school buses California schools offer?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I mean, a number of people have flagged this as a problem. It’s an equity issue, as we already talked about. So, State Sen. Nancy Skinner actually introduced a bill in 2022 that would have provided universal school transportation for California public school students. And she did that because she argued that providing dedicated funds for school transportation would actually improve attendance. It would help with chronic absenteeism, and especially for low income students, it could also improve outcomes at school, too. But this bill was estimated to cost the state $1.4 billion. And so it had some support in the state Senate, but ultimately it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>$1.4 billion is a lot of money. But still, you know, as someone who rode a school bus, I do have a little bit of nostalgia for those big yellow buses. And I find it a little sad that, you know, I have a 3-year-old, and he isn’t likely to ride a bus in California and have that special relationship with his bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I mean, I definitely got the sense from our question-asker, Jules, that she finds it a bit sad. I mean, she really had a positive experience on the bus and felt like it really created community. And not having them around here in the Bay area seems like just another way that the social fabric is fraying a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I guess I’ve always imagined that buses are like a library or a firefighter station or a police station like it’s this community service that is part of the inlaid structure of what makes it a community or what makes it a school for that community. So it just boggles my mind that it’s not part of any of these communities here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Well, Katrina Schwartz, thank you so much for bringing the story to us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You’re welcome. I’m sorry I couldn’t get more cute kids on buses. Apparently, there’s a lot of liability issues with getting on school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>The woes of education reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes. It’s hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Big thanks to Jules Winters for asking this week’s question. If you’ve got a question you’d like Bay Curious to take on, head to baycurious.org and fill out our form at the top of the page. While you’re there, vote in our March voting round. Here are the options under consideration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1 \u003c/b>Have you noticed all the motels along Lombard Street? I have. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always wondered why. Can you find out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2 \u003c/b>At the San Francisco Opera House, there’s a chandelier high above the orchestra level. How do they change the light bulbs when they burn out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3 \u003c/b>San Mateo County has an official shared housing program, which helps people find housing in someone else’s home. How well is it working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Again, that’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycurious.org\">baycurious.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weekday mornings are unquestionably hectic for many of us. We’re up early and out the door, headed towards some kind of commute to work. However, adding the responsibility of getting children through that morning routine and to school on time can feel like the day’s biggest accomplishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Jules Winters first moved to the San Francisco Bay Area from the East Coast, she worried that in that morning rush, she’d get stuck behind a school bus stopping every couple of blocks to pick up kids. She knew from experience that it could make her late to work. But, soon, that concern turned to puzzlement because it never happened. Instead, she noticed a lot of traffic jams around schools at drop-off and pick-up times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Now, I’m not going anywhere near [a] school because of all the parents dropping off their kids,” she says. “Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?” she wondered. “Why is that now the obligation of the family? And how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>It goes back to Proposition 13\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Winters isn’t wrong. California has fewer school buses than in other parts of the country. A survey conducted by the Federal Highway Administration found that nationally, almost 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is only 8%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many questions related to school funding and services, the answer to Winters’ question has roots in the passage of Proposition 13, a constitutional amendment that limited how much a homeowner’s property taxes could increase each year. Property taxes were the primary way school districts funded themselves back then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis,” says Sam Speroni, a doctoral researcher at the UCLA Institute of Transportation Studies and a researcher at San Jose State’s Mineta Transportation Institute. “So in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost of living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11980731\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11980731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg\" alt=\"A line of kids boards a yellow school bus.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/kids-ride-school-bus-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Across the country, about 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is closer to 8%. \u003ccite>( Ben Hasty/MediaNews Group/Reading Eagle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In the intervening years, California’s population has grown, including school-aged children, but the transportation budget has largely stayed the same. That has forced districts to shoulder more of the costs associated with providing school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, ‘do we continue providing buses or do we eliminate in-school-house services that are also super important?’” Speroni says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts are federally mandated to provide buses to certain groups of students, like those who have transportation, as part of their Individualized Education Program (IEP). However, California does not require school districts to offer school transportation to general education students. As the demands on the school budgets have grown, many districts have chosen not to prioritize school bus funding, which is costly.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Buses to serve equity goals\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Low-income families and families of color often travel the furthest to get to school and have the least resources at their disposal. In recognition of that, some Bay Area districts fund a small number of buses to help meet their equity goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley Unified School District assigns elementary students to zones and then places them in schools with an eye toward socioeconomic diversity. The district uses census data on family income and parental education to help it do this. If the student lives further than 1 1/2 miles from their assigned school, the district offers school buses to help them get there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over 1,600 students ride the bus in Berkeley, about 18% of the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4087301904&light=true\" width=\"100%\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley’s commitment to school buses stems from a legacy of bussing for integration that goes back to 1968. Berkeley was the first sizable city with a large minority population to voluntarily start a two-way bussing program to both bring white students down from the hills and to take Black students up to the hill schools as a way to racially integrate the population of all its schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco also offers some school buses to general education students. It runs 35 buses for K–8 students each day, with routes that largely start on the southeast side of the city and bring kids to schools further north and west. The district says these routes help provide crucial access to language programs and offer more choices to families living in the southeast. The routes serve 46 schools and about 2,000 kids. Families sign up for the school bus when they enroll their children in elementary school. The routes and applications for spots on the bus are assigned at the educational placement center.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Partnering with public transit agencies\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While many school districts in the San Francisco Bay Area do not provide dedicated school buses for general education students, they often partner with public transportation systems to help families get kids to school. In San Francisco, school-aged kids ride for free on Muni. SamTrans, serving schools in San Mateo County, offers free rides to low-income students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some school districts and public transportation agencies even work together to align schedules. For example, AC Transit, in the East Bay, offers Supplementary Service to School routes designed to align with school bell schedules and to cover the attendance boundaries of certain schools. AC Transit also discounts fares based on income requirements, as does Clipper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite these efforts, according to the Federal Highway Administration survey, only about 2% of California students take public buses to school. In contrast, 68% get a ride in a private vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>Calls for school transportation reform\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>Recently, there have been calls to reform California’s school transportation system. A 2014 Legislative Analyst’s Office report highlighted how underfunded the program had become and suggested several ways to reform it. In 2022, Newsom pledged state money to fund 60% of the cost of funding school transportation, the largest increase in years. The governor also allocated $1.5 billion in one-time funds to help districts transition to electric school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Nancy Skinner proposed a bill in 2022 that would provide universal access to school transportation for TK–12 public school students in the state. She argued that reliable transportation to school could reduce chronic absenteeism and improve school performance, especially for low-income students whose families more often don’t have cars. An analysis of the Skinner bill found it would cost the state $1.4 billion, which may be why, despite support in the Senate, it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The high cost of providing school buses, paired with the many demands on a school district’s budget, make changes to school transportation policy a tricky proposition going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Whenever Bay Curious listener Jules Winters thinks about her childhood growing up in the suburbs of Philadelphia, she thinks of her school bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>My bus driver was Ted for like, most of my life. This one time, there was a snowstorm that just hit, like out of nowhere, and it was like full-on blizzard. And I remember, like, we had been at school maybe only into like 9:00, and they were like, we got to get you out of here, like, now. And so they called all the buses. And we got on the bus with Ted, and we got stuck in a huge snowdrift on the way home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Jules doesn’t remember being scared in that moment, even though it was probably really stressful for Ted. She felt safe. She knew Ted would get her home, he always did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I have really good memories of taking the bus. Like, I met my best friend on the bus. She had moved into town over the summer and was just starting in a new school, and it’s kind of like I was the first person that she met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>So when she moved to California as an adult, Jules quickly noticed there weren’t many school buses moving kids around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I think it’s ironic that initially, I was concerned about traffic, with like being stuck behind a bus, because that was what I was used to on the East Coast. Now, it’s like, I’m not going anywhere near that school because of all the parents dropping off their kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I live a half block from a school, and trust me, some of the worst traffic jams happen around school start and end times. Since Jules has such positive memories of riding the bus as a student, it got her wondering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why aren’t there buses taking students to and from school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>And that led to a whole bunch more questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>Why is that now the obligation of the family and how do different families accommodate that? Is that equitable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today on Bay Curious, we’re taking a closer look at how kids get to school, why it matters, and if it’s true that there aren’t as many school buses in California as there are in other places. I’m Olivia Alan Price. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sponsor message]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Today, we’re digging into why you don’t see as many school buses around the Bay area as you might in other parts of the country. And to help answer some of Jules’ questions, we have Bay curious producer and longtime education reporter Katrina Schwartz. Welcome, Katrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Hi, Olivia. I was actually quite excited that we got an education question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Yeah, let’s get right into it. Is Jules right? Are there actually fewer school buses here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, Jules is correct. She’s actually put her finger on a real discrepancy. So there’s this survey that the Federal Highway Administration does across the country. And when you look nationwide, almost 40% of school-age kids ride a school bus. And that number has been fairly consistent across many decades. But here in California, only 8% of kids ride a school bus to school, which is the lowest in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Wow. 8%. You know, I wouldn’t have thought it was that low. Although I guess if I think about it, I don’t tend to see school buses very often when I’m out on the roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Right, because they really aren’t that common. In fact, I had a fair amount of trouble finding any kid that rode a school bus until I started asking around in Berkeley, where it is a little bit more common. So, I met Liz Christiano at her house in Berkeley. She actually volunteered to let me come over at this very stressful time in the morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano:\u003c/b> Good morning. Welcome, Katrina\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Getting ready time in order to meet up with her son James and his friend Eli, as they were having breakfast and getting ready to go to the school bus. They are both fourth graders at John Muir Elementary, and they remember the first time that they rode the school bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was kind of strange because, like, I didn’t know anybody, but then, like, I got used to it really quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>It wasn’t really scary. I guess it felt weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And they were not entirely positive about the experience but kind of resigned to it. I would say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It was pretty loud. There’s like so many people talking at once. And then the bus driver, like, frequently stops or has to use the radio to tell people to be quiet or to stop using foul language on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>OK. That tracks. I remember not loving the bus all the time as a student, but I know that my mom appreciated that it meant she didn’t have to drive me to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes, I think buses are really more for parents than they are for kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>My morning would be ridiculously stressful if I had to take him, even though we’re not that far away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Liz Christiano says she’s not even sure how she’d manage her morning without the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>The getting up and going. Having to manage all of the logistics of getting everywhere and everything on time is just… it’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>She has another child who’s younger, who goes to a preschool in Oakland. That school starts at the same time as James’ school. So if she was having to take them both to school, it would be this real logistical hurdle to juggle it all. And so she was just very thankful for the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Christiano: \u003c/b>Having your kid picked up and taken somewhere and then delivered home the amount of life and cognitive space that you get back, I love it. I really love it. The mornings are so much better because of the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>James and Eli normally walk to the school bus together without their parents. It’s about a two-block walk. But this morning, because I was there, a bunch of kids met up and we all walked to the school bus together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>We’re about to have to go to the bus. Do you want to interview Mia or Micah? they’re also on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, Micah, how do you feel about the bus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Micah: \u003c/b>I like that parents still get to work as much as they want. And it’s just fun to ride in the bus with friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>What about you, Mia? How do you feel about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>I really like it. Because even if you’re late to the bus, all you have to do is run, and he’ll wait for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>He waits for you!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>Yeah, and he laughs.\u003ci> (giggles)\u003c/i> This is my first year. So I was very nervous on the first day. I wasn’t expecting that my stop would be the first stop on the whole thing and that it would take like 20 minutes to get to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>Are you annoyed that it takes so long or is it OK?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>It’s OK because then I get to talk to my friends when they get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene: \u003c/b>So, is this the bus stop?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Eli: \u003c/b>It’s a very sad bus stop because it has no sign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And, pretty soon the bus pulled up. The kids all kind of gave their moms hugs and then got on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mia: \u003c/b>What we’re trying to say, is the bus is amazing!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>James: \u003c/b>No, we are not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Off they went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, it sounds like it’s working out really well for them. Why aren’t there more buses around California if it’s helping out this family so much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah. So this all goes back to Proposition 13, which is a constitutional amendment that passed in 1978. And it really limits how much property taxes can increase for homeowners, which is a big deal for school districts because, before Prop. 13, property taxes were the main way that school districts funded themselves. Since then, that burden has shifted more to the state because of Prop. 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>The restriction of those sources of revenue in 1978 caused more or less a budget crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I talked with Sam Speroni, who is a doctoral student at UCLA studying school transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>So, in 1982, the state froze its home-to-school transportation budget with only cost-of-living adjustments, and that stayed in place until 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So over the past 40-plus years, California’s population has grown, though. So there’s just this one pot of money that really hasn’t changed that much, and more kids and more need. So, if districts want to offer school buses, they have to kind of shoulder more of the burden to pay for that. And that means tradeoffs. You know, you can’t pay for everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>That leads local districts into really difficult decisions about, do we continue providing busses or do we eliminate in school house services that are also super important?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Reading support specialist for example, or an extra social worker?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>And politically, it’s difficult to justify the elimination of teaching staff if school buses can be reduced first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Obviously, you said it’s an expensive prospect for school districts to think about doing this, but Berkeley is making a bigger investment than others to keep buses going. Why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>So it goes back to the history of bussing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>The method is bussing, in itself one of the most controversial issues before boards of education throughout this country. But Berkeley is out to prove that it works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You know, in the 1960s and 70s, school buses were one of the primary ways that districts tried to integrate their schools racially. There was a lot of segregation before that, and school bussing was a way of basically moving kids around, mixing them up, taking them to different neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>And with the use of 25 buses, 3,500 elementary children began to commute to and from White and Negro neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Trish McDermott is the senior communications director for Berkeley Unified, and she told me this history is fundamental to how Berkeley operates today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>In 1968, we integrated our elementary schools, and that really made Berkeley the first larger city in the country with a large minority enrollment to voluntarily desegregate schools. And we did that with our buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And Trish says even in progressive Berkeley, bussing for integration wasn’t always popular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>Big, crowded school board meetings, a lot of pushback.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>They eventually got it done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Trish McDermott: \u003c/b>It’s change that we’re very proud of, and it really is the legacy of our transportation department as it exists today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Archival tape: \u003c/b>Oxford is typical of a school in Berkeley’s white middle-class neighborhood. Last year, Oxford student body had one Negro member. Today, 40% of the 325 students are black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>It’s a progressive district, and they care about creating schools that are diverse and integrated. So, what they do is assign elementary school students to a zone, and then they look at the census for income data and parental education data to assign students to different schools. And then they use school buses to help kids and families get to the school that they were assigned to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Berkeley is doing this, but how does that stack up against all the other hundreds of school districts in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, it’s important to know that there’s no law in California that requires school districts to provide buses to general education students. So every district kind of looks at its budget and their student population and decides, you know, can we afford to do this or not? Is this where we want to spend our limited resources? You always have to make tradeoffs. So in a rural district, for example, they often prioritize school transportation because the distances are longer. There maybe aren’t any public transportation options for students, and the schools are more spread out. So bussing is sort of essential to getting kids to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I will say that every district does need to provide some school busses, because they are federally mandated to transport certain groups of students to school. So if a student has transportation as part of their Individualized Education program, for example, maybe they have a disability or something like that, then they get transportation to school, and that is federally mandated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One district that actually does provide school buses for general education kids is San Francisco, which might actually surprise some families in San Francisco because a lot of families have to drive their kids to school or walk them to school or find some other way to get there. But there are a few school buses, 35 buses that the district runs. And again, it is also for equity reasons, largely the routes start on the south side of the city where there’s often more kids. It tends to be like lower-income neighborhoods, and the routes take kids to the west side of the city, and that’s to provide access to language programs, other schools, and basically makes sure that they have access to the rest of the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>There must be families who would use bussing if it came to them, and it just doesn’t. What do those people do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Well, you know, some kids walk to school if they’re close enough, some kids bike to school. But about two-thirds of California students get a ride to school in a private vehicle. So obviously that’s not great for the environment. And it’s a big ask of families. I mean, plenty of people don’t have cars, so some districts try to help out by partnering with public transportation systems. So in San Francisco, for example, school kids can ride Muni for free. And the district says that every school is served by at least one Muni bus line or train line. In the East Bay. It’s AC transit, and they actually reach out to the school districts around them and try to align their bus schedules to the school. Will start and end times to make it easier for kids to ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> I’m here at De Anza High School in Richmond. And it’s interesting because, like, all the AC transit buses are waiting here, like school buses. They’re pulled up off the street in this little pick-up zone. And there’s a bunch of kids who came out of school who are waiting around for the buses to leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sound of fare machine beeping]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 20 minutes after school let out…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz in scene:\u003c/b> So all the kids are, like, crowded around the door waiting to get on the bus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Sounds of bus honking and accelerating]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The bus takes off. And it takes a route through the school boundary zone so that all these kids can get back home. But if there was another patron on the street who wanted to ride, they could easily get on the bus anywhere along the route.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>I mean, I imagine this, you know, really boils down to sort of a problem on the equity front, right? Because, OK, even if parents are able to take their kids to school because of their schedule, that still is going to mean they’re going to have to have a car that’s operational. That requires a certain amount of money. Be up to date on insurance. Or I mean, the other thing to consider is like, that’s going to limit the shift work that perhaps parents could do if they’re going to have to know that they need to be available to take their kid to school at a certain time. That’s a constraint that, especially if you’re living, you know, on a low-income salary, that’s just one more thing that you’re sort of juggling in an already pretty complicated life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I think it is an equity issue, although it’s a little bit unclear how big of one it is. I mean, obviously any family that has more flexibility and more mobility is going to have more choices. And all the things that you laid out are true. But there are a lot of other factors that make schools unequal in California. So it’s hard to say how much of a difference a school bus would really make to the whole big picture. One thing that Sam Speroni says, though, is that if California as a state wants to even the playing field for families by offering choices about what schools a family might send their kid to, transportation really needs to be part of that conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>Ultimately, you don’t have school choice if you don’t have transportation to those choices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>And then the other problem that Sam Speroni brought up — this is a national problem — there’s a huge school bus driver shortage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Speroni: \u003c/b>With the buses we already have. We’re struggling to staff them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>The school bus drivers have to have a special commercial driver’s license, which is also what you use for trucking or other types of delivery jobs. And often those jobs pay more. So in this current economy, it’s very hard to retain your school bus drivers. And we’re seeing that even in places that have much more robust bussing, they’re having a lot of trouble staffing their buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Now, given everything you’ve learned, are there likely to be any changes to how many school buses California schools offer?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>I mean, a number of people have flagged this as a problem. It’s an equity issue, as we already talked about. So, State Sen. Nancy Skinner actually introduced a bill in 2022 that would have provided universal school transportation for California public school students. And she did that because she argued that providing dedicated funds for school transportation would actually improve attendance. It would help with chronic absenteeism, and especially for low income students, it could also improve outcomes at school, too. But this bill was estimated to cost the state $1.4 billion. And so it had some support in the state Senate, but ultimately it didn’t advance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>$1.4 billion is a lot of money. But still, you know, as someone who rode a school bus, I do have a little bit of nostalgia for those big yellow buses. And I find it a little sad that, you know, I have a 3-year-old, and he isn’t likely to ride a bus in California and have that special relationship with his bus driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yeah, I mean, I definitely got the sense from our question-asker, Jules, that she finds it a bit sad. I mean, she really had a positive experience on the bus and felt like it really created community. And not having them around here in the Bay area seems like just another way that the social fabric is fraying a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jules Winters: \u003c/b>I guess I’ve always imagined that buses are like a library or a firefighter station or a police station like it’s this community service that is part of the inlaid structure of what makes it a community or what makes it a school for that community. So it just boggles my mind that it’s not part of any of these communities here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>Well, Katrina Schwartz, thank you so much for bringing the story to us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>You’re welcome. I’m sorry I couldn’t get more cute kids on buses. Apparently, there’s a lot of liability issues with getting on school buses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>The woes of education reporting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>Yes. It’s hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Big thanks to Jules Winters for asking this week’s question. If you’ve got a question you’d like Bay Curious to take on, head to baycurious.org and fill out our form at the top of the page. While you’re there, vote in our March voting round. Here are the options under consideration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1 \u003c/b>Have you noticed all the motels along Lombard Street? I have. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always wondered why. Can you find out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2 \u003c/b>At the San Francisco Opera House, there’s a chandelier high above the orchestra level. How do they change the light bulbs when they burn out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3 \u003c/b>San Mateo County has an official shared housing program, which helps people find housing in someone else’s home. How well is it working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>Again, that’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.baycurious.org\">baycurious.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "these-california-companies-want-to-buy-your-backyard-and-build-a-house",
"title": "These California Companies Want to Buy Your Backyard — and Build a House",
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"headTitle": "These California Companies Want to Buy Your Backyard — and Build a House | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Brian and Gail Tremaine moved to East San José 45 years ago for the quiet. On the outskirts of this Silicon Valley city, atop what was once an apricot orchard, the couple kept sheep, goats and horses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They planted mulberry trees along the driveway and carved terraces and patios out of the sloping hillside, but a portion of the 1.7-acre property remained untamed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just become an area where we need to do weed control and keep it clean because the county gets after us if the weeds get too high,” said Brian Tremaine, 75. “We’re getting to the age where we want less land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The couple first considered building an accessory dwelling unit (ADU) or backyard cottage. But the cost — with estimates ranging from $500,000 to $700,000 — was formidable, Brian Tremaine said, as was the idea of taking out a second mortgage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11979558\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11979558\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Brian and Gail Tremaine stand in the parcel of land that will be carved from their original parcel in San José on March 13, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That’s when they learned about \u003ca href=\"https://www.buildcasa.com/\">BuildCasa \u003c/a>— a company that would purchase a portion of their backyard and assist them in splitting the lot under SB 9, a controversial law that went into effect in January 2022. It allows property owners to build up to two duplexes on most single-family properties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time of its passage, supporters hailed it as the end of single-family zoning in California and an opportunity to spur more housing, while critics worried it would spark a dramatic shift in the makeup of California’s suburban neighborhoods. But in the first two years since the law was in effect, it has produced little in the way of either new lots or housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A KQED survey of 16 cities of varying sizes across the state found that between 2022 and 2023, the cities collectively approved 75 lot split applications and 112 applications for new units under the law. That’s compared to more than 8,800 ADUs the cities permitted during the same time frame.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ih4uc/4/?v=3\" width=\"800\" height=\"620\" scrolling=\"yes\" class=\"iframe-class\" frameborder=\"0\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, a growing cadre of companies is hoping to jumpstart the construction of SB 9 projects by taking on the permitting and development work themselves, as well as making it easier for homeowners to take advantage of the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These types of projects are really costly and complicated for a homeowner to take on,” said Ben Bear, co-founder and CEO of BuildCasa. “They’re basically asking the homeowner to be a developer, which, from a financial and capabilities perspective, is a challenge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Southern California, \u003ca href=\"https://yardsworth.com/\">Yardsworth\u003c/a> has emerged with a model similar to BuildCasa. But unlike the latter company, which sells the lots to developers, Yardsworth plans to develop the lots themselves and either sell or rent out the new homes. Elsewhere in the state, other companies are specializing in particular aspects of SB 9.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Ben Bear, co-founder and CEO, BuildCasa.\"]‘These types of projects are really costly and complicated for a homeowner to take on. They’re basically asking the homeowner to be a developer, which, from a financial and capabilities perspective, is a challenge.’[/pullquote]Bear said his clients make, on average, just over $100,000 selling the new lot — though in high-priced areas of the state, the amounts have been as high as $400,000. Homeowners get to keep their existing home and mortgage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The tradeoff, he said, is a reduction in the value of the existing property by 10% or less.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So there’s a major positive benefit when you compare those two numbers,” Bear said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether these offers are enticing enough to encourage more homeowners to take advantage of SB 9 remains to be seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muhammad Alameldin, a policy associate at the Terner Center for Housing Innovation at UC Berkeley, is skeptical that these companies alone can kickstart the construction of new housing because few projects are financially viable under SB 9. He said that without changing the law itself, it would likely result in only a smattering of new homes each year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we do not go back after implementation and reform and fix some of the requirements of [SB 9],” he said, “then what’s the point of even having this big fight in the first place?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Slow uptake\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>After the law went into effect, many cities implemented their own restrictions on SB 9 projects. Alameldin co-authored a \u003ca href=\"https://ternercenter.berkeley.edu/research-and-policy/sb-9-turns-one-applications/\">2023 report\u003c/a> detailing many of them: limitations on the size of new units, open space requirements and burdensome fees, to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a story that had been told before — with ADUs, which were first \u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/accessory-dwelling-units-adus-in-california/#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20the%20state%20legislature,zoning%20ordinances%20and%20permitting%20processes.\">legalized statewide in 2016\u003c/a>. It took several years and nearly a dozen new laws to reduce regulations and spur construction. In 2016, just over\u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/accessory-dwelling-units-adus-in-california/#:~:text=As%20soon%20as%20the%20first,19%25%20of%20new%20housing%20permits.\"> 1,000 ADUs were approved\u003c/a> across the state. In 2022, there were nearly 25,000 — comprising \u003ca href=\"https://www.hcd.ca.gov/planning-and-community-development/housing-open-data-tools/housing-element-implementation-and-apr-dashboard\">nearly a fifth\u003c/a> of the state’s estimated housing supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11979557\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11979557\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The plot of land that will be carved off of Gail and Brian Tremaine’s original lot in San José on March 13, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t by accident,” Alameldin said. “It was years and years of legislation by multiple authors from the Assembly and Senate, who kept improving the law year after year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Toni Atkins, SB 9’s original author, has introduced a bill, \u003ca href=\"https://sd39.senate.ca.gov/news/20230320-senate-leader-atkins-introduces-legislation-improve-access-oversight-california-home\">SB 450\u003c/a>, that begins to address some of the issues that developers, planning staff and homeowners have faced. It would set a time limit for jurisdictions to approve or reject applications for SB 9 projects and mandate that new housing not be held to stricter design standards than other homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill passed in the Senate and Assembly last year but was then put on hold. It’s eligible for a floor vote this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Atkins acknowledged the slow rollout of SB 9 and said she was committed to “finding solutions to the housing crisis by building on past legislative efforts, like SB 9.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Implementation of new legislation like SB 9 doesn’t happen overnight; it takes time and thoughtful consideration,” Atkins wrote. “SB 9 is a modest tool that gives homeowners control of housing options that best meet their needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But even with the proposed changes, some developers said SB 450 doesn’t go far enough. Several said they would like to see an anti-speculation measure removed that requires applicants to live on the property for three years after undergoing a lot split.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Doing so would make the projects more enticing to developers, said Peter Taormina, the managing owner of a development company called Cypress Pacific Investors, who is hoping the provision can be changed in subsequent legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"State Sen. Toni Atkins (D-San Diego)\"]‘Implementation of new legislation like SB 9 doesn’t happen overnight; it takes time and thoughtful consideration. SB 9 is a modest tool that gives homeowners control of housing options that best meet their needs.’[/pullquote]“You’re going to have to let the people that do this for a living, roll up their sleeves and do it,” said Taormina, who is in the process of completing an SB 9 project in Marina, California, that consists of splitting three parcels into six with a home and an in-law unit on each. “The end result will be [that] housing will be created.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Matt Lucido, co-founder and CEO of Yardsworth, identified less tangible barriers, as well. Most people simply aren’t aware of the bill, he said, and even if they are, they may be reluctant to sell a portion of their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a really emotional thing. People are attached to their backyards, even if they don’t use them,” he said. “You’re asking them to carve off a piece of the American dream.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To help potential clients overcome this hurdle, Yardsworth introduced a \u003ca href=\"https://zerodownca.com/\">new offer\u003c/a> earlier this month: The company will fund the down payment on a new home in exchange for a portion of the homebuyer’s yet-to-sentimentalized backyard. Lucido said that can help solve two problems simultaneously — adding housing amid a shortage and helping renters become owners.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Homeowners leverage their lots\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For those willing to take on an SB 9 project, the leaders of BuildCasa and Yardsworth said their clients tended to fall into two categories: retirees looking to downsize in place — similar to the Tremaines in San José — or younger homeowners hoping to leverage the equity in their properties without taking on debt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latter was the case for one of Yardsworth’s clients, former Olympian Jamele Mason, who competed in the 2012 Summer Games in the men’s 400-meter hurdles. Mason bought his South Los Angeles home in February 2020, right before the pandemic lockdowns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11968455,news_11806332,news_11770372\"]At first, he thought maintaining the large backyard, with its lemon tree and pergola, would be a fun pastime. But, he quickly realized it was more work than pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So, I ripped up all the grass that was in the back. I put in artificial turf to try to make it as low maintenance as possible,” he said. “Turns out there is still maintenance that needs to be done.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He learned about Yardsworth while researching ways to pull equity out of his house without having to sell and contacted the company last fall to begin the process. In January, he began working for Yardsworth as a sales manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mason, 34, said he plans to use the $135,000 he got from Yardsworth to buy an investment property in Houston, where he grew up. He hopes the additional property will set him up for a more comfortable retirement, something he admitted was a constant worry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I put everything I had into purchasing this house,” Mason said. “So, when I found out that I could pull the money out, I was like, ‘Wow, that’s actually a really cool way to leverage what I have.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In other cases, homeowners opt to keep their split lots vacant as an investment — either to pass down to their children or sell later. Such was the case with roughly half of Peter Riechers’ 80 or so clients, who are spread out across the state, he said. The president of civil engineering firm Riechers Engineering said he was so motivated by SB 9’s potential that he came out of a 15-year retirement when the law went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was so exciting — still is very exciting,” he said. “You’ve got all this land sitting there, not being used … when it could be used for this housing crisis we have in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Peter Riechers, president, Riechers Engineering\"]‘It was so exciting — still is very exciting. You’ve got all this land sitting there, not being used … when it could be used for this housing crisis we have in California.’[/pullquote]Easton McAllister, the owner of DeBolt Civil Engineering, which is based out of Danville, said his company has taken on at least 50 lot splits. In roughly a dozen cases, he said he’s also offered to complete the work for free in exchange for an option to purchase the newly split lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is unclear whether these companies’ models of shepherding property owners through the process — and then selling the newly split lots or developing them themselves — are in keeping with the spirit of SB 9’s anti-speculation protections. Atkins declined to be interviewed and didn’t respond to a request for comment via email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But both Mason and the Tremaines said their projects wouldn’t have happened without some kind of professional assistance. Brian Tremaine said he wouldn’t even have known where to start.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you ever go to the county, it’s impossible. … Who do you talk to?” he said. “That would have taken months — probably years, literally — just to figure it out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Los Angeles, Mason is bracing for a duplex to be built behind his single-story home, while the Tremaines said they don’t yet know what kind of home might be built in their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that’s not what worries Gail Tremaine. The law requires at least 40% of the existing lot to be sectioned off, which, in the Tremaines’ case, made for an awkward gerrymandering of the property. It meant they not only had to carve off the unused portion of their backyard but a portion of their front yard, as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That kind of tugs at my heart a little,” she said. “You know, change is always hard. And the older you get, the harder change is.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "SB 9, which went into effect in January 2022, allows property owners to split their lot into two parcels and build a duplex on each lot.",
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"title": "These California Companies Want to Buy Your Backyard — and Build a House | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Brian and Gail Tremaine moved to East San José 45 years ago for the quiet. On the outskirts of this Silicon Valley city, atop what was once an apricot orchard, the couple kept sheep, goats and horses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They planted mulberry trees along the driveway and carved terraces and patios out of the sloping hillside, but a portion of the 1.7-acre property remained untamed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just become an area where we need to do weed control and keep it clean because the county gets after us if the weeds get too high,” said Brian Tremaine, 75. “We’re getting to the age where we want less land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The couple first considered building an accessory dwelling unit (ADU) or backyard cottage. But the cost — with estimates ranging from $500,000 to $700,000 — was formidable, Brian Tremaine said, as was the idea of taking out a second mortgage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11979558\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11979558\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-8-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Brian and Gail Tremaine stand in the parcel of land that will be carved from their original parcel in San José on March 13, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That’s when they learned about \u003ca href=\"https://www.buildcasa.com/\">BuildCasa \u003c/a>— a company that would purchase a portion of their backyard and assist them in splitting the lot under SB 9, a controversial law that went into effect in January 2022. It allows property owners to build up to two duplexes on most single-family properties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time of its passage, supporters hailed it as the end of single-family zoning in California and an opportunity to spur more housing, while critics worried it would spark a dramatic shift in the makeup of California’s suburban neighborhoods. But in the first two years since the law was in effect, it has produced little in the way of either new lots or housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A KQED survey of 16 cities of varying sizes across the state found that between 2022 and 2023, the cities collectively approved 75 lot split applications and 112 applications for new units under the law. That’s compared to more than 8,800 ADUs the cities permitted during the same time frame.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ih4uc/4/?v=3\" width=\"800\" height=\"620\" scrolling=\"yes\" class=\"iframe-class\" frameborder=\"0\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, a growing cadre of companies is hoping to jumpstart the construction of SB 9 projects by taking on the permitting and development work themselves, as well as making it easier for homeowners to take advantage of the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These types of projects are really costly and complicated for a homeowner to take on,” said Ben Bear, co-founder and CEO of BuildCasa. “They’re basically asking the homeowner to be a developer, which, from a financial and capabilities perspective, is a challenge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Southern California, \u003ca href=\"https://yardsworth.com/\">Yardsworth\u003c/a> has emerged with a model similar to BuildCasa. But unlike the latter company, which sells the lots to developers, Yardsworth plans to develop the lots themselves and either sell or rent out the new homes. Elsewhere in the state, other companies are specializing in particular aspects of SB 9.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Bear said his clients make, on average, just over $100,000 selling the new lot — though in high-priced areas of the state, the amounts have been as high as $400,000. Homeowners get to keep their existing home and mortgage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The tradeoff, he said, is a reduction in the value of the existing property by 10% or less.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So there’s a major positive benefit when you compare those two numbers,” Bear said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether these offers are enticing enough to encourage more homeowners to take advantage of SB 9 remains to be seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muhammad Alameldin, a policy associate at the Terner Center for Housing Innovation at UC Berkeley, is skeptical that these companies alone can kickstart the construction of new housing because few projects are financially viable under SB 9. He said that without changing the law itself, it would likely result in only a smattering of new homes each year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we do not go back after implementation and reform and fix some of the requirements of [SB 9],” he said, “then what’s the point of even having this big fight in the first place?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Slow uptake\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>After the law went into effect, many cities implemented their own restrictions on SB 9 projects. Alameldin co-authored a \u003ca href=\"https://ternercenter.berkeley.edu/research-and-policy/sb-9-turns-one-applications/\">2023 report\u003c/a> detailing many of them: limitations on the size of new units, open space requirements and burdensome fees, to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a story that had been told before — with ADUs, which were first \u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/accessory-dwelling-units-adus-in-california/#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20the%20state%20legislature,zoning%20ordinances%20and%20permitting%20processes.\">legalized statewide in 2016\u003c/a>. It took several years and nearly a dozen new laws to reduce regulations and spur construction. In 2016, just over\u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/accessory-dwelling-units-adus-in-california/#:~:text=As%20soon%20as%20the%20first,19%25%20of%20new%20housing%20permits.\"> 1,000 ADUs were approved\u003c/a> across the state. In 2022, there were nearly 25,000 — comprising \u003ca href=\"https://www.hcd.ca.gov/planning-and-community-development/housing-open-data-tools/housing-element-implementation-and-apr-dashboard\">nearly a fifth\u003c/a> of the state’s estimated housing supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11979557\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11979557\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/03/240313-SB-9-SANJOSE-KSM-5-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The plot of land that will be carved off of Gail and Brian Tremaine’s original lot in San José on March 13, 2024. \u003ccite>(Kathryn Styer Martínez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t by accident,” Alameldin said. “It was years and years of legislation by multiple authors from the Assembly and Senate, who kept improving the law year after year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Toni Atkins, SB 9’s original author, has introduced a bill, \u003ca href=\"https://sd39.senate.ca.gov/news/20230320-senate-leader-atkins-introduces-legislation-improve-access-oversight-california-home\">SB 450\u003c/a>, that begins to address some of the issues that developers, planning staff and homeowners have faced. It would set a time limit for jurisdictions to approve or reject applications for SB 9 projects and mandate that new housing not be held to stricter design standards than other homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill passed in the Senate and Assembly last year but was then put on hold. It’s eligible for a floor vote this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Atkins acknowledged the slow rollout of SB 9 and said she was committed to “finding solutions to the housing crisis by building on past legislative efforts, like SB 9.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Implementation of new legislation like SB 9 doesn’t happen overnight; it takes time and thoughtful consideration,” Atkins wrote. “SB 9 is a modest tool that gives homeowners control of housing options that best meet their needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But even with the proposed changes, some developers said SB 450 doesn’t go far enough. Several said they would like to see an anti-speculation measure removed that requires applicants to live on the property for three years after undergoing a lot split.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Doing so would make the projects more enticing to developers, said Peter Taormina, the managing owner of a development company called Cypress Pacific Investors, who is hoping the provision can be changed in subsequent legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“You’re going to have to let the people that do this for a living, roll up their sleeves and do it,” said Taormina, who is in the process of completing an SB 9 project in Marina, California, that consists of splitting three parcels into six with a home and an in-law unit on each. “The end result will be [that] housing will be created.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Matt Lucido, co-founder and CEO of Yardsworth, identified less tangible barriers, as well. Most people simply aren’t aware of the bill, he said, and even if they are, they may be reluctant to sell a portion of their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a really emotional thing. People are attached to their backyards, even if they don’t use them,” he said. “You’re asking them to carve off a piece of the American dream.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To help potential clients overcome this hurdle, Yardsworth introduced a \u003ca href=\"https://zerodownca.com/\">new offer\u003c/a> earlier this month: The company will fund the down payment on a new home in exchange for a portion of the homebuyer’s yet-to-sentimentalized backyard. Lucido said that can help solve two problems simultaneously — adding housing amid a shortage and helping renters become owners.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Homeowners leverage their lots\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For those willing to take on an SB 9 project, the leaders of BuildCasa and Yardsworth said their clients tended to fall into two categories: retirees looking to downsize in place — similar to the Tremaines in San José — or younger homeowners hoping to leverage the equity in their properties without taking on debt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latter was the case for one of Yardsworth’s clients, former Olympian Jamele Mason, who competed in the 2012 Summer Games in the men’s 400-meter hurdles. Mason bought his South Los Angeles home in February 2020, right before the pandemic lockdowns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>At first, he thought maintaining the large backyard, with its lemon tree and pergola, would be a fun pastime. But, he quickly realized it was more work than pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So, I ripped up all the grass that was in the back. I put in artificial turf to try to make it as low maintenance as possible,” he said. “Turns out there is still maintenance that needs to be done.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He learned about Yardsworth while researching ways to pull equity out of his house without having to sell and contacted the company last fall to begin the process. In January, he began working for Yardsworth as a sales manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mason, 34, said he plans to use the $135,000 he got from Yardsworth to buy an investment property in Houston, where he grew up. He hopes the additional property will set him up for a more comfortable retirement, something he admitted was a constant worry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I put everything I had into purchasing this house,” Mason said. “So, when I found out that I could pull the money out, I was like, ‘Wow, that’s actually a really cool way to leverage what I have.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In other cases, homeowners opt to keep their split lots vacant as an investment — either to pass down to their children or sell later. Such was the case with roughly half of Peter Riechers’ 80 or so clients, who are spread out across the state, he said. The president of civil engineering firm Riechers Engineering said he was so motivated by SB 9’s potential that he came out of a 15-year retirement when the law went into effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was so exciting — still is very exciting,” he said. “You’ve got all this land sitting there, not being used … when it could be used for this housing crisis we have in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Easton McAllister, the owner of DeBolt Civil Engineering, which is based out of Danville, said his company has taken on at least 50 lot splits. In roughly a dozen cases, he said he’s also offered to complete the work for free in exchange for an option to purchase the newly split lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is unclear whether these companies’ models of shepherding property owners through the process — and then selling the newly split lots or developing them themselves — are in keeping with the spirit of SB 9’s anti-speculation protections. Atkins declined to be interviewed and didn’t respond to a request for comment via email.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But both Mason and the Tremaines said their projects wouldn’t have happened without some kind of professional assistance. Brian Tremaine said he wouldn’t even have known where to start.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you ever go to the county, it’s impossible. … Who do you talk to?” he said. “That would have taken months — probably years, literally — just to figure it out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Los Angeles, Mason is bracing for a duplex to be built behind his single-story home, while the Tremaines said they don’t yet know what kind of home might be built in their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that’s not what worries Gail Tremaine. The law requires at least 40% of the existing lot to be sectioned off, which, in the Tremaines’ case, made for an awkward gerrymandering of the property. It meant they not only had to carve off the unused portion of their backyard but a portion of their front yard, as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That kind of tugs at my heart a little,” she said. “You know, change is always hard. And the older you get, the harder change is.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Facing mounting pressure to crack down on a retail theft crisis, California lawmakers are split on how best to tackle the problem that some say has caused major store closures and products like deodorants to be locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Top Democratic leaders have already ruled out reforming progressive policies like Proposition 47, a ballot measure approved by 60% of state voters in 2014 that reduced certain theft and drug possession offenses from felonies to misdemeanors to address overcrowding jails. But a growing number of law enforcement officials, along with Republican and moderate Democratic lawmakers, said California needs to consider all options, including rolling back the measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While shoplifting has been a growing problem, large-scale thefts, in which groups of individuals brazenly rush into stores and take goods in plain sight, have become a crisis in California and elsewhere in recent years. California Retailers Association said it’s challenging to quantify the issue in California because many stores don’t share their data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Urban areas and big cities like the Bay Area and Los Angeles saw a steady increase in shoplifting between 2021 and 2022, according to a study of the latest crime data by The Public Policy Institute of California. Across the state, shoplifting rates rose during the same period but were still lower than the pre-pandemic levels in 2019. The study said commercial burglaries and robberies have become more prevalent in urban counties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom, a champion of Proposition 47 who has repeatedly \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-california-theft-8dec92007049f1fa41f9e280882bcef6\">argued California already has tools\u003c/a> to go after criminals sufficiently, rejected calls to reform the measure in January. He instead urged lawmakers to bolster existing laws and go after motor vehicle thefts and resellers of stolen merchandise. California is also \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-smash-grab-robberies-grants-police-0172b4e64ed9d748a6fced4316f4121d\">spending $267 million\u003c/a> to help dozens of local law enforcement agencies increase patrols, buy surveillance equipment and conduct other activities to crack down on retail theft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Gov. Gavin Newsom\"]‘Not to say everything about Prop. 47 is hunky-dory and perfect. We want to help fix some of the ambiguities there, but we could do it without reforming or going back to the voters.’[/pullquote]“Not to say everything about Prop. 47 is hunky-dory and perfect,” Newsom said in January. “We want to help fix some of the ambiguities there, but we could do it without reforming or going back to the voters.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California voters approved Proposition 47 in 2014 to help California comply with a 2011 California Supreme Court order, which upheld that California’s overcrowded prisons violated incarcerated individuals’ Eighth Amendment rights against cruel and unusual punishment. The proposition modified but did not eliminate sentencing for many drug and nonviolent property crimes, including thefts under $950.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding saved from having fewer people in jails and prisons, totaling $113 million this fiscal year, has gone to local programs to fight recidivism with some successes, state officials and advocates said. But the proposition has made it harder to prosecute shoplifters and enabled brazen crime rings, law enforcement officials said. An effort to reform the measure failed in 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11975692,news_11979533,news_10743111\"]Following Newsom’s directions, Democratic leaders in both chambers at the Capitol also have shut down calls to repeal the measure. Last month, the state’s new Senate President Pro Tempore Mike McGuire, with bipartisan support, introduced a package of legislation that would target auto thefts and large-scale resell schemes and expand diversion programs such as drug courts and treatment services. Under the proposal, online marketplaces would also be required to crack down on users reselling stolen goods on their platforms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do not believe that this state needs to touch Prop. 47 to be able to help make our communities safer, full stop,” McGuire said during a news conference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979533/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-the-ballot-assembly-speaker-rivas-opposes-changes-to-proposition-47\">who has said he also doesn’t want to repeal Proposition 47\u003c/a>, co-authored similar legislation aimed at repeat thieves and online resellers. It would allow law enforcement to “stack” the value of goods stolen from different victims to impose harsher penalties and arrest people for shoplifting using video footage or witness statements. The measure also would mandate online sellers to maintain records proving the merchandise wasn’t stolen and require some retail businesses to report stolen goods data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But some Democratic lawmakers said those efforts won’t be enough to make a difference. Assemblymember James Ramos, who authored bipartisan legislation to increase penalties for repeat shoplifters, said many lawmakers want to see “the pendulum swing back to the middle.” The bill would require voters’ approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Assemblymember James Ramos\"]‘Prop. 47 needs to have some type of resetting. We have the opportunity now to start that dialogue.’[/pullquote]“Prop. 47 needs to have some type of resetting,” Ramos said. “We have the opportunity now to start that dialogue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Assemblymember Kevin McCarty, chair of the Assembly Public Safety Committee, said he also is exploring options, including putting something on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everything is on the table,” McCarty said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, major retail groups and the California District Attorney Association, along with the Democratic mayors of San Francisco and San José, have thrown their support behind a ballot initiative to stiffen penalties for repeat thieves, among other things. The groups are still collecting signatures to qualify for the November ballot before the April deadline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Facing mounting pressure to crack down on a retail theft crisis, California lawmakers are split on how best to tackle the problem that some say has caused major store closures and products like deodorants to be locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Top Democratic leaders have already ruled out reforming progressive policies like Proposition 47, a ballot measure approved by 60% of state voters in 2014 that reduced certain theft and drug possession offenses from felonies to misdemeanors to address overcrowding jails. But a growing number of law enforcement officials, along with Republican and moderate Democratic lawmakers, said California needs to consider all options, including rolling back the measure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While shoplifting has been a growing problem, large-scale thefts, in which groups of individuals brazenly rush into stores and take goods in plain sight, have become a crisis in California and elsewhere in recent years. California Retailers Association said it’s challenging to quantify the issue in California because many stores don’t share their data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Urban areas and big cities like the Bay Area and Los Angeles saw a steady increase in shoplifting between 2021 and 2022, according to a study of the latest crime data by The Public Policy Institute of California. Across the state, shoplifting rates rose during the same period but were still lower than the pre-pandemic levels in 2019. The study said commercial burglaries and robberies have become more prevalent in urban counties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom, a champion of Proposition 47 who has repeatedly \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-california-theft-8dec92007049f1fa41f9e280882bcef6\">argued California already has tools\u003c/a> to go after criminals sufficiently, rejected calls to reform the measure in January. He instead urged lawmakers to bolster existing laws and go after motor vehicle thefts and resellers of stolen merchandise. California is also \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-smash-grab-robberies-grants-police-0172b4e64ed9d748a6fced4316f4121d\">spending $267 million\u003c/a> to help dozens of local law enforcement agencies increase patrols, buy surveillance equipment and conduct other activities to crack down on retail theft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“Not to say everything about Prop. 47 is hunky-dory and perfect,” Newsom said in January. “We want to help fix some of the ambiguities there, but we could do it without reforming or going back to the voters.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California voters approved Proposition 47 in 2014 to help California comply with a 2011 California Supreme Court order, which upheld that California’s overcrowded prisons violated incarcerated individuals’ Eighth Amendment rights against cruel and unusual punishment. The proposition modified but did not eliminate sentencing for many drug and nonviolent property crimes, including thefts under $950.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding saved from having fewer people in jails and prisons, totaling $113 million this fiscal year, has gone to local programs to fight recidivism with some successes, state officials and advocates said. But the proposition has made it harder to prosecute shoplifters and enabled brazen crime rings, law enforcement officials said. An effort to reform the measure failed in 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Following Newsom’s directions, Democratic leaders in both chambers at the Capitol also have shut down calls to repeal the measure. Last month, the state’s new Senate President Pro Tempore Mike McGuire, with bipartisan support, introduced a package of legislation that would target auto thefts and large-scale resell schemes and expand diversion programs such as drug courts and treatment services. Under the proposal, online marketplaces would also be required to crack down on users reselling stolen goods on their platforms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do not believe that this state needs to touch Prop. 47 to be able to help make our communities safer, full stop,” McGuire said during a news conference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979533/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-the-ballot-assembly-speaker-rivas-opposes-changes-to-proposition-47\">who has said he also doesn’t want to repeal Proposition 47\u003c/a>, co-authored similar legislation aimed at repeat thieves and online resellers. It would allow law enforcement to “stack” the value of goods stolen from different victims to impose harsher penalties and arrest people for shoplifting using video footage or witness statements. The measure also would mandate online sellers to maintain records proving the merchandise wasn’t stolen and require some retail businesses to report stolen goods data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But some Democratic lawmakers said those efforts won’t be enough to make a difference. Assemblymember James Ramos, who authored bipartisan legislation to increase penalties for repeat shoplifters, said many lawmakers want to see “the pendulum swing back to the middle.” The bill would require voters’ approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“Prop. 47 needs to have some type of resetting,” Ramos said. “We have the opportunity now to start that dialogue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Assemblymember Kevin McCarty, chair of the Assembly Public Safety Committee, said he also is exploring options, including putting something on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everything is on the table,” McCarty said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, major retail groups and the California District Attorney Association, along with the Democratic mayors of San Francisco and San José, have thrown their support behind a ballot initiative to stiffen penalties for repeat thieves, among other things. The groups are still collecting signatures to qualify for the November ballot before the April deadline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Chevron Agrees to Pay More Than $13 Million in Fines for California Oil Spills",
"headTitle": "Chevron Agrees to Pay More Than $13 Million in Fines for California Oil Spills | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>Chevron has agreed to pay more than $13 million in fines for dozens of past oil spills in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California-based energy giant agreed to pay a $5.6 million fine associated with a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/general-news-small-business-8e31e63134114c6a9c59a8fb6fc543a6\">2019 oil spill\u003c/a> in Kern County, first \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11760192/chevron-well-has-leaked-a-quarter-million-gallons-of-oil-in-central-valley-since-may\">reported by KQED\u003c/a> and was California’s biggest uncontrolled release of crude petroleum in decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chevron has already paid to clean up that spill, while this latest payment will go to the state Department of Conservation to plug orphaned wells and for state efforts to respond to future oil spills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department said it was the largest fine ever assessed in its history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Chuck Bonham, director, Department of Fish and Wildlife\"]‘This settlement is a testament to our firm stance that we will hold businesses strictly liable for oil spills that enter our waterways and pollute our environment.’[/pullquote]“This agreement is a significant demonstration of California’s commitment to transition away from fossil fuels while holding oil companies accountable when they don’t comply with the state’s regulations and environmental protections,” department Director David Shabazian said in a news release.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 2019 oil spill dumped at least 800,000 gallons of oil and water into a canyon in Kern County, the home of the state’s oil industry. Oil and water flowed from the ground for months near Chevron wells near the Kern County town of McKittrick, and the release was so big Gov. Gavin Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2019/07/24/today-governor-gavin-newsom-to-hold-media-availability-following-visit-of-kern-county-oil-seepage-site/\">visited the clean-up site\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chevron also agreed to pay a $7.5 million fine for more than 70 smaller spills between 2018 and 2023 that state officials say killed or injured more than 60 animals. These incidents accounted for more than 446,000 gallons of oil spilled, killing or injuring at least 63 animals and impacting at least 6 acres of salt brush and grassland habitat, according to the California Department of Fish and Wildlife’s Office of Spill Prevention and Response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department said it was the largest administrative fine in its history. Most of the money will go to projects to acquire and preserve habitat. A portion of the money will also go to the Oiled Wildlife Care Network at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine and to help respond to future oil spills.[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11760192,news_11762422,news_11769850\"]“This settlement is a testament to our firm stance that we will hold businesses strictly liable for oil spills that enter our waterways and pollute our environment,” Department of Fish and Wildlife Director Chuck Bonham said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement Wednesday night, Chevron said the settlements demonstrate the company’s commitment to addressing problems and preventing similar incidents in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We always strive to meet or exceed our environmental obligations. When we do not achieve that goal, we take responsibility and appropriate action,” a spokesperson for the company said. “We are pleased to put this matter behind us in a way that benefits our community so we can continue to focus on providing the affordable, reliable, and ever-cleaner energy California needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting by The Associated Press and KQED’s Ted Goldberg.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Chevron has agreed to pay more than $13 million in fines for dozens of past oil spills in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California-based energy giant agreed to pay a $5.6 million fine associated with a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/general-news-small-business-8e31e63134114c6a9c59a8fb6fc543a6\">2019 oil spill\u003c/a> in Kern County, first \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11760192/chevron-well-has-leaked-a-quarter-million-gallons-of-oil-in-central-valley-since-may\">reported by KQED\u003c/a> and was California’s biggest uncontrolled release of crude petroleum in decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chevron has already paid to clean up that spill, while this latest payment will go to the state Department of Conservation to plug orphaned wells and for state efforts to respond to future oil spills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department said it was the largest fine ever assessed in its history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“This agreement is a significant demonstration of California’s commitment to transition away from fossil fuels while holding oil companies accountable when they don’t comply with the state’s regulations and environmental protections,” department Director David Shabazian said in a news release.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 2019 oil spill dumped at least 800,000 gallons of oil and water into a canyon in Kern County, the home of the state’s oil industry. Oil and water flowed from the ground for months near Chevron wells near the Kern County town of McKittrick, and the release was so big Gov. Gavin Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2019/07/24/today-governor-gavin-newsom-to-hold-media-availability-following-visit-of-kern-county-oil-seepage-site/\">visited the clean-up site\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chevron also agreed to pay a $7.5 million fine for more than 70 smaller spills between 2018 and 2023 that state officials say killed or injured more than 60 animals. These incidents accounted for more than 446,000 gallons of oil spilled, killing or injuring at least 63 animals and impacting at least 6 acres of salt brush and grassland habitat, according to the California Department of Fish and Wildlife’s Office of Spill Prevention and Response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The department said it was the largest administrative fine in its history. Most of the money will go to projects to acquire and preserve habitat. A portion of the money will also go to the Oiled Wildlife Care Network at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine and to help respond to future oil spills.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“This settlement is a testament to our firm stance that we will hold businesses strictly liable for oil spills that enter our waterways and pollute our environment,” Department of Fish and Wildlife Director Chuck Bonham said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement Wednesday night, Chevron said the settlements demonstrate the company’s commitment to addressing problems and preventing similar incidents in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We always strive to meet or exceed our environmental obligations. When we do not achieve that goal, we take responsibility and appropriate action,” a spokesperson for the company said. “We are pleased to put this matter behind us in a way that benefits our community so we can continue to focus on providing the affordable, reliable, and ever-cleaner energy California needs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting by The Associated Press and KQED’s Ted Goldberg.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Stellantis, one of the largest automakers in the world, agreed Tuesday to comply with California’s vehicle emissions standards that are the toughest in the nation and require zero-emission and plug-in hybrid vehicles to make up 68% of new light-duty vehicle sales by 2030.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The move by the company that makes vehicles for Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep was seen as a boost to Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom’s ambitious policies to curtail global warming. The Biden administration restored the state’s authority to set its own tailpipe pollution standards for cars in 2022 after former President Donald Trump’s decision to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/cf37ab14d4194ba199b4b98e3b31848a\">revoke California’s authority to set its own limits on auto emissions\u003c/a>. It was one of Trump’s most high-profile actions to roll back environmental rules he considered overly burdensome on businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Liane Randolph, chair, California Air Resources Board\"]‘This really allows for industry to have certainty in how they are going to work with government to achieve that zero-emission future.’[/pullquote]Stellantis now joins four big automakers — Ford, Honda, Volkswagen and BMW — that agreed to follow California’s rules in 2019. The Trump administration then launched an antitrust investigation of those companies, but eventually closed it after \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/administration-ends-antitrust-probe-of-4-automakers-calif-d5ea7c6f9ba89262b72378198d91e983\">failing to find any wrongdoing\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares called Tuesday’s agreement “a win-win solution that is good for the customer and good for the planet” in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s office said Stellantis will avoid adding up to 12 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions through 2026, which is equivalent to emissions from more than 2.3 million vehicles annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company also agreed to spend $4 million on installing electric vehicle chargers in parks and rural areas in California, Newsom’s office said, while Stellantis will spend another $6 million on charging infrastructure in other states that choose to adopt California’s rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are all in — enthusiastically committed to this transition,” Newsom said. “This is about jobs. This is about economic growth. This is about dominating one of the next great economic sectors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the 1970s, the federal government has allowed California to set its own rules for how much pollution can come from cars and trucks. These rules are tougher than the federal standards because California has the most cars on the road and struggles to meet air quality standards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11972271,news_11979516,science_1991185\"]California has been aggressive in trying to eliminate pollution from gas-powered cars and trucks, though the Biden administration has not yet granted it authority to enforce its ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2035.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State regulators approved rules to phase out the sale of new fossil fuel-powered \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/technology-california-air-resources-board-climate-and-environment-dc75c11280f85a8ab134cf392497be68\">cars\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-truck-drayage-emissions-climate-change-ab703c7f6274e35d408e020c7a1a823e\">trucks\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-rail-train-emissions-climate-change-1b3e39ea4731422bc630a07c08c6a826\">trains\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-california-pollution-environment-and-nature-a0110d773785d920558134c0009ba694\">lawn equipment\u003c/a>. The railroad industry has \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-railroad-trains-lawsuit-emissions-locomotives-139ef09e80173b25b1abfb800bf98205\">sued to block new rules\u003c/a> they say would force the premature retirement of about 25,000 diesel-powered locomotives. But some auto makers have pledged to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-trucks-zero-emission-gas-powered-6457fb67bf50af7e354dcfe511adc197\">voluntarily follow California’s new rules\u003c/a>, avoiding lawsuits that could potentially delay their implementation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Air Resources Board Chair Liane Randolph said the deals between the state and automakers to cut emissions will help the auto industry prepare for a transition away from gas-powered vehicles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This really allows for industry to have certainty in how they are going to work with government to achieve that zero-emission future,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Associated Press writer Adam Beam contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Austin is a corps member for The Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. \u003ca href=\"https://www.reportforamerica.org/\">Report for America\u003c/a> is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues. Follow Austin on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter: @sophieadanna\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Stellantis now joins four big automakers — Ford, Honda, Volkswagen and BMW — that agreed to follow California’s rules in 2019. The Trump administration then launched an antitrust investigation of those companies, but eventually closed it after \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/administration-ends-antitrust-probe-of-4-automakers-calif-d5ea7c6f9ba89262b72378198d91e983\">failing to find any wrongdoing\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares called Tuesday’s agreement “a win-win solution that is good for the customer and good for the planet” in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s office said Stellantis will avoid adding up to 12 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions through 2026, which is equivalent to emissions from more than 2.3 million vehicles annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company also agreed to spend $4 million on installing electric vehicle chargers in parks and rural areas in California, Newsom’s office said, while Stellantis will spend another $6 million on charging infrastructure in other states that choose to adopt California’s rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>California has been aggressive in trying to eliminate pollution from gas-powered cars and trucks, though the Biden administration has not yet granted it authority to enforce its ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2035.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State regulators approved rules to phase out the sale of new fossil fuel-powered \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/technology-california-air-resources-board-climate-and-environment-dc75c11280f85a8ab134cf392497be68\">cars\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-truck-drayage-emissions-climate-change-ab703c7f6274e35d408e020c7a1a823e\">trucks\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-rail-train-emissions-climate-change-1b3e39ea4731422bc630a07c08c6a826\">trains\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-california-pollution-environment-and-nature-a0110d773785d920558134c0009ba694\">lawn equipment\u003c/a>. The railroad industry has \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-railroad-trains-lawsuit-emissions-locomotives-139ef09e80173b25b1abfb800bf98205\">sued to block new rules\u003c/a> they say would force the premature retirement of about 25,000 diesel-powered locomotives. But some auto makers have pledged to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-trucks-zero-emission-gas-powered-6457fb67bf50af7e354dcfe511adc197\">voluntarily follow California’s new rules\u003c/a>, avoiding lawsuits that could potentially delay their implementation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Air Resources Board Chair Liane Randolph said the deals between the state and automakers to cut emissions will help the auto industry prepare for a transition away from gas-powered vehicles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This really allows for industry to have certainty in how they are going to work with government to achieve that zero-emission future,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Associated Press writer Adam Beam contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Austin is a corps member for The Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. \u003ca href=\"https://www.reportforamerica.org/\">Report for America\u003c/a> is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues. Follow Austin on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter: @sophieadanna\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "California Weakens Plan for Mandatory Cutbacks in Urban Water Use",
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"content": "\u003cp>Facing criticism over their ambitious plan to curb urban water use, California’s regulators on Tuesday weakened the proposed rules — giving water providers more\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>years and flexibility to comply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cities and urban water districts welcome the changes to the state’s draft conservation rules, which they said would have been too costly for ratepayers, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2024/01/california-new-water-conservation-rules-analyst-report/\">estimated at $13.5 billion\u003c/a>, and too difficult to achieve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, environmentalists are dismayed by the revisions, which they said won’t save enough water for weather shortages as climate change squeezes supplies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Tracy Quinn, CEO and president, Heal the Bay\"]‘It’s really looking like this is a ‘do nothing’ regulation. The updated standards are weak, and the regulation includes semi-truck sized loopholes that make it too easy for water suppliers to shirk their obligation to use water more efficiently.’[/pullquote]“It’s really looking like this is a ‘do nothing’ regulation,” said \u003ca href=\"https://healthebay.org/staff/tracy-quinn/\">Tracy Quinn\u003c/a>, CEO and president of Heal the Bay, a Los Angeles County environmental group. “The updated standards are weak, and the regulation includes semi-truck sized loopholes that make it too easy for water suppliers to shirk their obligation to use water more efficiently.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mandated by a package of laws enacted in 2018, the rules from the State Water Resources Control Board aim to make “\u003ca href=\"https://water.ca.gov/-/media/DWR-Website/Web-Pages/Programs/Water-Use-And-Efficiency/Make-Water-Conservation-A-California-Way-of-Life/Files/PDFs/Final-WCL-Primer.pdf?la=en&hash=B442FD7A34349FA91DA5CDEFC47134EA38ABF209\">water conservation a California way of life (PDF)\u003c/a>” by mandating cuts in water use among more than 400 cities and water agencies that supply the vast majority of Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The regulation won’t set mandatory conservation targets for individuals. Instead, it creates water budgets for cities and districts, which would meet them through rebates, new rate structures and other efforts to cut their customers’ use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Legislative Analyst’s Office, in a January report, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2024/01/california-new-water-conservation-rules-analyst-report/\">heavily criticized the original rules,\u003c/a> saying they would set “such stringent standards for outdoor use that suppliers will not have much ‘wiggle room’ in complying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Warning that the costs may outweigh the benefits, the analysts recommended relaxing several of the requirements, such as the residential outdoor standard, and extending deadlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The board’s new revisions delay the start date for enforcing compliance with the water budgets by two years, until 2027 \u003cstrong>— \u003c/strong>largely because the water board is behind schedule in adopting the regulation, its executive director, \u003ca href=\"https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/about_us/board_members/leadership.html\">Eric Oppenheimer\u003c/a>, said. Water suppliers are also granted an extra five years, until 2035, to meet targets ramping down outdoor water use and are given until 2040 for reductions originally planned for 2035.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest version would conserve about 520,000 acre-feet of water a year starting in 2040, according to the water board’s estimates. That’s 170,000 acre-feet less than the previous version,\u003cem> \u003c/em>enough to serve more than half a million households for a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Gov. Gavin Newsom has called for \u003ca href=\"https://resources.ca.gov/-/media/CNRA-Website/Files/Initiatives/Water-Resilience/CA-Water-Supply-Strategy.pdf\">at least 500,000 acre-feet in annual conservation by 2030 (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the rules are finalized, each water supplier must meet individualized conservation goals, calculated from a complex formula based on standards for indoor and outdoor residential water use and certain commercial landscapes, as well as losses like leaks. Other variables, such as the presence of livestock in a region or the availability of recycled water, can factor into the calculation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The water board said it would vote on the updated plan in July, following public comment, and it would take effect at the beginning of next year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Statewide, 63 water suppliers, serving about 9% of the population where household incomes are below the state median, will be required to cut water use by more than 20%. Under the revisions, they could cut use by only 1% per year and still be deemed in compliance, provided they meet other requirements. Another 19 suppliers in wealthier regions facing cuts of 30% or more could cut use by only 2% per year and still comply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Eric Oppenheimer, director, State Water Resources Control Board\"]‘You still have to meet your objective, whatever that may be. But you get more time to get there — in some cases, substantially more time.’[/pullquote]“You still have to meet your objective, whatever that may be. But you get more time to get there — in some cases, substantially more time,” Oppenheimer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That would mean that if your ultimate compliance target was 30%, you’d have 30 years to get there,” compared to approximately 15 years under the old version, Oppenheimer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Water suppliers welcomed the extended deadlines because they would have more time to coax customers with rebates and other programs to make lasting changes to irrigated landscapes without harming shade trees and disadvantaged communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The changes will allow “urban retail water suppliers to thoughtfully and cost-effectively implement programs,” said \u003ca href=\"https://www.acwa.com/about/leadership-staff/\">Chelsea Haines\u003c/a> of the Association of California Water Agencies, which represents more than 450 public agencies. “I hope that we see this additional time not as a delay but as an opportunity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11971872,news_11969648,news_11977573\"]The water board does not have an updated cost estimate for the revised rules to compare to the $13.5 billion estimate for the old version. The costs come largely because cities and agencies would offer rebates and rate cuts to those who conserve. The benefits were estimated to reach about $15.6 billion, largely because suppliers and customers will buy less water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Environmentalists say the delays belie the urgency of preparing for the next inevitable drought and will force more drastic changes to landscapes when emergency conservation measures are needed once again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The fact that we aren’t taking steps as quickly as possible to invest in more climate resilient landscapes that will be able to survive those future droughts is unthinkable. Quite frankly, it’s reckless,” Quinn said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pacinst.org/meet-our-staff-heather-cooley/\">Heather Cooley\u003c/a>, director of research for the Pacific Institute, said conservation is cheaper than developing new supplies through desalination or recycling — a burden that customers would eventually bear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By weakening the standard, we’re making water more expensive,” Cooley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Heather Cooley, director of research, Pacific Institute\"]‘By weakening the standard, we’re making water more expensive.’[/pullquote]Under a previous version of the rules, about 18% of suppliers — serving about a quarter of the state’s population — wouldn’t have to reduce their customers’ use to meet the 2035 standards, according to the board’s estimates last September. Now, under the new version, 37% of suppliers — serving 42% of the state’s population — wouldn’t have to change their water use by 2035. And by 2040, 31% could still maintain their status quo, according to water board data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asked if they were concerned about the reduced savings under the latest version, Oppenheimer said flexibility and feasibility are important.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We think 500,000 acre-feet of saved project savings is a substantial amount,” he said. “More is always better, but that needs to be balanced against providing enough flexibility to the water suppliers and the feasibility of meeting those standards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The revised proposal grants water providers an extra five years to reduce outdoor irrigation. Cities and water agencies that have lobbied for the extension are relieved, while critics say Californians will keep wasting water.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Facing criticism over their ambitious plan to curb urban water use, California’s regulators on Tuesday weakened the proposed rules — giving water providers more\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>years and flexibility to comply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cities and urban water districts welcome the changes to the state’s draft conservation rules, which they said would have been too costly for ratepayers, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2024/01/california-new-water-conservation-rules-analyst-report/\">estimated at $13.5 billion\u003c/a>, and too difficult to achieve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, environmentalists are dismayed by the revisions, which they said won’t save enough water for weather shortages as climate change squeezes supplies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘It’s really looking like this is a ‘do nothing’ regulation. The updated standards are weak, and the regulation includes semi-truck sized loopholes that make it too easy for water suppliers to shirk their obligation to use water more efficiently.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It’s really looking like this is a ‘do nothing’ regulation,” said \u003ca href=\"https://healthebay.org/staff/tracy-quinn/\">Tracy Quinn\u003c/a>, CEO and president of Heal the Bay, a Los Angeles County environmental group. “The updated standards are weak, and the regulation includes semi-truck sized loopholes that make it too easy for water suppliers to shirk their obligation to use water more efficiently.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mandated by a package of laws enacted in 2018, the rules from the State Water Resources Control Board aim to make “\u003ca href=\"https://water.ca.gov/-/media/DWR-Website/Web-Pages/Programs/Water-Use-And-Efficiency/Make-Water-Conservation-A-California-Way-of-Life/Files/PDFs/Final-WCL-Primer.pdf?la=en&hash=B442FD7A34349FA91DA5CDEFC47134EA38ABF209\">water conservation a California way of life (PDF)\u003c/a>” by mandating cuts in water use among more than 400 cities and water agencies that supply the vast majority of Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The regulation won’t set mandatory conservation targets for individuals. Instead, it creates water budgets for cities and districts, which would meet them through rebates, new rate structures and other efforts to cut their customers’ use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Legislative Analyst’s Office, in a January report, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/environment/2024/01/california-new-water-conservation-rules-analyst-report/\">heavily criticized the original rules,\u003c/a> saying they would set “such stringent standards for outdoor use that suppliers will not have much ‘wiggle room’ in complying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Warning that the costs may outweigh the benefits, the analysts recommended relaxing several of the requirements, such as the residential outdoor standard, and extending deadlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The board’s new revisions delay the start date for enforcing compliance with the water budgets by two years, until 2027 \u003cstrong>— \u003c/strong>largely because the water board is behind schedule in adopting the regulation, its executive director, \u003ca href=\"https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/about_us/board_members/leadership.html\">Eric Oppenheimer\u003c/a>, said. Water suppliers are also granted an extra five years, until 2035, to meet targets ramping down outdoor water use and are given until 2040 for reductions originally planned for 2035.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The latest version would conserve about 520,000 acre-feet of water a year starting in 2040, according to the water board’s estimates. That’s 170,000 acre-feet less than the previous version,\u003cem> \u003c/em>enough to serve more than half a million households for a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California Gov. Gavin Newsom has called for \u003ca href=\"https://resources.ca.gov/-/media/CNRA-Website/Files/Initiatives/Water-Resilience/CA-Water-Supply-Strategy.pdf\">at least 500,000 acre-feet in annual conservation by 2030 (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the rules are finalized, each water supplier must meet individualized conservation goals, calculated from a complex formula based on standards for indoor and outdoor residential water use and certain commercial landscapes, as well as losses like leaks. Other variables, such as the presence of livestock in a region or the availability of recycled water, can factor into the calculation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The water board said it would vote on the updated plan in July, following public comment, and it would take effect at the beginning of next year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Statewide, 63 water suppliers, serving about 9% of the population where household incomes are below the state median, will be required to cut water use by more than 20%. Under the revisions, they could cut use by only 1% per year and still be deemed in compliance, provided they meet other requirements. Another 19 suppliers in wealthier regions facing cuts of 30% or more could cut use by only 2% per year and still comply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“You still have to meet your objective, whatever that may be. But you get more time to get there — in some cases, substantially more time,” Oppenheimer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That would mean that if your ultimate compliance target was 30%, you’d have 30 years to get there,” compared to approximately 15 years under the old version, Oppenheimer said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Water suppliers welcomed the extended deadlines because they would have more time to coax customers with rebates and other programs to make lasting changes to irrigated landscapes without harming shade trees and disadvantaged communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The changes will allow “urban retail water suppliers to thoughtfully and cost-effectively implement programs,” said \u003ca href=\"https://www.acwa.com/about/leadership-staff/\">Chelsea Haines\u003c/a> of the Association of California Water Agencies, which represents more than 450 public agencies. “I hope that we see this additional time not as a delay but as an opportunity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The water board does not have an updated cost estimate for the revised rules to compare to the $13.5 billion estimate for the old version. The costs come largely because cities and agencies would offer rebates and rate cuts to those who conserve. The benefits were estimated to reach about $15.6 billion, largely because suppliers and customers will buy less water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Environmentalists say the delays belie the urgency of preparing for the next inevitable drought and will force more drastic changes to landscapes when emergency conservation measures are needed once again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The fact that we aren’t taking steps as quickly as possible to invest in more climate resilient landscapes that will be able to survive those future droughts is unthinkable. Quite frankly, it’s reckless,” Quinn said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pacinst.org/meet-our-staff-heather-cooley/\">Heather Cooley\u003c/a>, director of research for the Pacific Institute, said conservation is cheaper than developing new supplies through desalination or recycling — a burden that customers would eventually bear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By weakening the standard, we’re making water more expensive,” Cooley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Under a previous version of the rules, about 18% of suppliers — serving about a quarter of the state’s population — wouldn’t have to reduce their customers’ use to meet the 2035 standards, according to the board’s estimates last September. Now, under the new version, 37% of suppliers — serving 42% of the state’s population — wouldn’t have to change their water use by 2035. And by 2040, 31% could still maintain their status quo, according to water board data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asked if they were concerned about the reduced savings under the latest version, Oppenheimer said flexibility and feasibility are important.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We think 500,000 acre-feet of saved project savings is a substantial amount,” he said. “More is always better, but that needs to be balanced against providing enough flexibility to the water suppliers and the feasibility of meeting those standards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "6-the-day-room-s2-new-folsom",
"title": "6. The Day Room | S2: New Folsom",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The team digs deep into the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar—the murder in the day room that Officer Valentino Rodriguez was tasked to write a report about, and that had consumed Sgt. Kevin Steele up until the last day of his life. We track down each of the men who took part in the stabbing to find out: did officers also play a role?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9838235524\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes graphic descriptions of violence, homicide, and briefly references a suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey, did you wanna start with the first question?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first thing we were gonna say is that we understand it can be difficult and emotional, so if there’s some point where you need to take a break or you don’t wanna talk, that’s, that’s okay. If there’s any questions that you’re not comfortable with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Si te cuesta hablar de esto díganos, podemos tomar una descanso.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In September of 2022, one of the show’s producers, Steven Rascon, and I got on a Zoom call with this woman.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok. Mi nombre es este “eme a” rosario Buena Zaragoza.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario is the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar the, man whose murder in the day room at New Folsom Prison is at the heart of our story, the same man on the video that Officer Valentino Rodriguez showed his father at the Christmas party — a brutal stabbing that seemed to go on and on, while the officer in the control booth only fired those foam bullets. Questions about this murder and whether officers had set it up had also consumed Sgt. Kevin Steele up until the last day of his life. And we knew at this point, almost three years later, the FBI was also still looking into this case, just like we were. We hoped the woman on this Zoom call could help us understand a bit about the victim at the center of all this, her son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y cómo fue tu relación con Luis Giovanny?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Muy bonita para mi muy bonita la relación de mi hijo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We had a very beautiful relationship. He was very sweet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo adoraba mi hijo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I adored him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Claudia Bohorquez, Ma Rosario’s attorney, who’s helping Ma Rosario sue New Folsom officials and is translating for her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Estoy en Tijuana…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario had moved back to Tijuana from Los Angeles after she split up with Luis Giovanny’s dad, but her son stayed living in LA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cuando mi hijo fue a la cárcel… pues me sentí mal. Me puse a llorar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When my son went to jail, I felt horrible. I got sick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The police report says in 2009, Luis Giovanny got in an argument with his girlfriend, and he hit her. She was holding their one-year-old daughter. Luis Giovanny, who was 19 at the time, swung again, missing his girlfriend and giving his daughter a bloody nose. He took a plea deal and was sent to prison. He got out in 2018.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me quería desmayar cuando lo vi…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to faint when I saw him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Out of prison and now in his late 20s, he came to see his mom in Tijuana.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Porque fue una impresión ver a mi bebe tan grandote tan guapo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a very strong impact for me to see my baby now a grown man, and so handsome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo lo miraba muy feliz y yo tengo esa foto muy feliz…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She holds up a picture from that visit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y una foto donde me dio una abrazo, fuerte fuerte.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re side by side, hugging each other tightly, their faces pressed against each other. Luis Giovanny looks young, with a buzzed haircut and mustache. It was the last time she saw him. After his visit, Luis Giovanny went back to The States, and before too long, again got arrested, this time for stealing a car and trying to flee police. Claudia, the attorney, says this whole thing was based on a misunderstanding. It was his uncle’s car, and he took it without asking. But with his prior record, he was sent back to prison for four years. And of course, he wasn’t sent to just any prison. He ended up in the most dangerous prison in the state, locked up in an incredibly high-security unit with men who’d been convicted of the most serious crimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Todo ese tiempo yo no pude hablar con él, solo por cartas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I couldn’t talk to him, I could only communicate with him through letters. I could not speak to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario tells us her son didn’t want her to worry about him, so in his letters, he didn’t really talk about his life in prison, but he would send artwork.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sí, él lo dibujó.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s amazing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over Zoom, she shows us some pictures he drew.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little closer too. Isn’t that amazing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A la pantalla…cerca\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including a detailed, almost photorealistic black-and-white portrait of his grandfather, Ma Rosario’s father, a man with strong cheekbones, wearing a cowboy hat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s so good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The last letter she received from him was in early December, 2019. Eight days later, she says she was out looking for a Christmas tree. When she got home, she noticed that she had missed a bunch of calls. Her ex, Luis Giovanny’s father, was trying to get in touch with her, so she called him, already fearing something terrible had happened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t know even how to tell me that, that our son was, had been killed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cuando yo supe la noticia, cuando exploté, yo grité y le di golpes a la pared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said, “When I found out, I, I screamed. I hit the wall.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What did they say had happened to him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Una pelea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That he had, uh, it was a fight, and that they had stabbed my son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A fight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, a fight.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was the first story she was told about her son’s death, and we know this was not true. There was no fight.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario, just like us, is still trying to understand what is the real truth of what happened on December 12, 2019, in the restricted, high-security B8 Unit at New Folsom Prison. In this episode, we’re gonna dive deep into this case to try to answer that question, but it won’t be easy. Key witnesses have died, evidence is missing, and everyone we talked to who knows what happened seems to have a reason to lie. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season 2: New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get into the weeds, let’s start with the basic facts of what happened on December 12, 2019, facts that aren’t disputed, and that are reflected in internal CDCR reports that were leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That day, 29-year-old Luis Giovanny Aguilar was brought down by officers into the day room, a shared space, typically used for recreation and classes. It was a new program, and pretty unusual for a solitary housing unit, or a SHU, like this. Two other men, Cody Taylor and Anthony Rodriguez, were brought down next, and there’s an elaborate security protocol to this. Each of the men were strip searched, wanded with a metal detector, and placed in restraints, handcuffs attached to a waist chain and ankle restraints.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once in the day room, each of these men were then attached by those ankle shackles to their chairs. Overlooking the day room was a control booth, where an officer sat. His job was to monitor the unit, and he had a 40-millimeter gun that shot foam projectiles and a deadly Mini-14 rifle in the booth for use if necessary. We do not know what the officer was doing or if he saw that Rodriguez and Taylor were working quickly to get out of their restraints. Once freed, Rodriguez went up the stairs and retrieved two long improvised knives from the cell of another incarcerated man on the second tier, Dion Green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rodriguez then came back down and handed one of the knives to Taylor. The two then approached Aguilar and began stabbing him as he sat shackled and unable to move. They stabbed him 55 times. The reports that were leaked by a confidential source do not say how long this took. They also don’t say when the control booth officer took action, but at some point, he did fire four foam rounds. Taylor and Rodriguez eventually stopped their attack, threw down their weapons, and lay facedown on the floor. Responding officers flooded into the day room. Among the officers who responded that day was Sgt. Kevin Steele. Steele, trained as a medic in the Air Force, tried to resuscitate Aguilar, but all the efforts to revive him were unsuccessful, and he was pronounced dead at the on-site medical center.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew Kevin knew something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Dion Green. He was in his cell in the second tier of the housing unit. Minutes earlier, he’d handed the knives under the door to Anthony Rodriguez, and then the murder played out. Now he watched as the veteran investigator took in the scene.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was the only one, when they all came inside the day room, it was about 30, 40 cops, squad and everybody. He was the only one just looking around. He was looking. He was standing there just looking, and wanted to know, “How the hell did they pull this off?” And he was just looking at the cameras, looking at the, the locks, the chains, looking up, you know, at the, at, at the cell, looking up how we came, uh, orchestrated everything. He was like, “Nah, something’s missing.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, all the evidence pointed to an open-and-shut case. Within hours, Green had confessed to ordering the hit, and all three men were eventually charged with murder. Cody Taylor pled out first, taking a 102-year sentence. Anthony Rodriguez pled next and got 34 years to life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m the only one that hasn’t resolved my issues with, with the case yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’ll hear from Taylor and Rodriguez later on too, but I wanted to talk to Green first, because I knew from reading through court documents and talking to sources that Steele had convinced Green to do something pretty remarkable: cooperate with his investigation. It seemed like he was the key to understanding Steele’s obsession with this case. Now keep in mind, Green also has his own reasons for talking to me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My life is on the line here. Please understand this. This is as serious it is as I, as I’m telling you, ma’am. If I don’t die from my heart failure, I’m gonna die in the hands of CDCR. They’re gonna set me up and kill me, I promise you that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Department officials have said in court filings that Green is not in danger. Over the past year, I’ve talked to Green many times. Originally from the Chicago and Detroit areas, Green was convicted of murder in California when he was 20. He’s been in prison ever since. Last year, I visited him at a prison in Stockton, California for people with serious medical conditions. He’s 50 years old now, and needs a walker to get around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not as healthy as I used to be. I never been around this corner before. I’m not the same as I used to be, but I’m still considered a very dangerous man.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green has dark eyes, with an unusual gray-blue ring around them. He says they’ve always been that way. He’s black and Puerto Rican, and he has pentagram tattoos on his hands and 666 tattooed on the back of his head. In prison, he goes by the nickname G Satan, or Satan. Four-and-a-half years ago, before the murder, before his heart problems and his health deteriorated, when he was transferred into the restricted B8 Unit at New Folsom Prison, he says he had even more power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everything ran through me, you know what I’m saying? Everything ran through me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of people were in the B8 unit for committing new crimes in prison. That’s part of what the unit was for, and Green was no exception. He’d been moved to New Folsom because he was found with a weapon after trying to kill a man in Lancaster State Prison in Southern California. That man was named Michael Britt, and he’s important because what happened with Britt laid the groundwork for everything that happened later with Luis Giovanny Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Green showed up at New Folsom in September of 2019, he discovered something. His old enemy, Britt, was also there, in the exact same unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I got here, moving me over to long-term, was my documented enemy — that’s how all started it. You put me right next to him on an ongoing case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, CDCR policy doesn’t outright bar wardens from placing two people like this, who are documented enemies, near each other. There are a lot of enemies behind bars, and sometimes it can’t be helped. For example, both Britt and Green likely had to be in the restricted unit because of their histories and how the department had classified them, but within that restricted unit, there were three different housing sections. Officers I spoke to say choosing to put both Green and Britt in the same housing section was a bad idea and a big security risk. And looking at this case, you can see why. Just a couple weeks after Green arrives in the unit, two men slip out of their cuffs in the day room and stab his enemy, Michael Britt, multiple times, as Green looked on from his chair in the day room. Britt is rushed to the hospital and ultimately survives this second attempt on his life. Green tells prison officials he was behind it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went in there as an older homie. I said, “Listen, this case is some business from Lancaster. You guys wasn’t even supposed to put us together.” X, Y, and Z, I went in there and said what I needed to say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green said he was a high-ranking member of a prison gang who orchestrated the hit by, “Influencing two inmates to carry it out,” according to court records. Those two incarcerated men under his influence were Cody Taylor and Anthony Rodriguez. So within a month of arriving at New Folsom, Green had found his hitters, and established himself as the shot caller of the secure housing unit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two months after the attempt on Britt, this same team struck again, the same guys, in the same housing section, in the same day room. But this time, the victim was Luis Giovanny Aguilar, and this time, their victim died. When Green was interviewed by investigators from the DA’s office that same night, he claimed responsibility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was me. I ordered this.” You know what I’m saying? “It was this business.” You know, I went in there and, uh, made it seem like that I was just the worst fucking dude on the face of this Earth, you know? That I was this heartless fucking dude, and I just killed this dude in this gang business, and it, you know, that’s my statements.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Internal reports leaked by a confidential source reflect this. These reports say that Green called the murder, “Business.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what the script was, so it can just all go away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Green says that script was just a story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That shit was made up, man, period.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was asking what you, what you know about Dion Green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dion Green… What, oh, the inmate?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The shot caller, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or, the quote-unquote-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, honestly, I think if, uh, people worked hard enough, I think you could get him to tell you the truth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This correctional officer retired from the department after working at New Folsom for 15 years. She didn’t want us to use her real name, because she’s afraid of retaliation, so my co-reporter Julie gave her a codename: Tinkerbell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aww.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ‘Cause your hairstyle reminds me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, I love-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…of her hairstyle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…Tinkerbell. Oh yeah, totally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She explains why Green had power in the prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s a shot caller because he’s got a lot of people that put money on his books. He has access to dope. So you have a bunch of dope heads and people that are in there, and they know that all they have to do is kill somebody in order to, you know, be in good graces with Green, or to get the dope, or to whatever. They have nothing to lose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Tinkerbell’s pointing out is that life can be cheap in prison — the cost of a cell phone or some drugs. In the past decade, at least 33 people have been killed in New Folsom alone. We tried to compare this number to prisons across the state, but both the Department of Justice and CDCR had problems with their data, so getting an accurate number of people killed in California prisons was impossible. When Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed, Tinkerbell says she was off work recovering from an injury, and didn’t think much of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you hear that, it’s like it’s, “Okay, well, I mean, it’s, oh, it’s another homicide.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when she got back to work, she started looking into the details of what happened with the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whenever we had incidents, or whenever we got new inmates, I was very nosy. I want to know and understand these guys’ mentality. I wanna know what their history is at other prisons. Um, I wanna know whatever I can to protect other inmates, to protect that inmate, and to protect our staff, always, always, always why I was nosy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says she already knew the reputations of his killers, Rodriguez and Taylor, so she was snooping through their prior cases.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was looking at Taylor’s history, and I saw that he had stabbed Britt, and I went in, and I was like, “Oh, well what’s the circumstances of this?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she started to connect the dots. Before they killed Aguilar, they’d tried the same thing with Michael Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And like, my red flags started going off in a major way. I’m like, first of all, how in the hell did it happen almost identically twice? And how in the hell did these guys get out of their cuffs, or weren’t supervised, knowing that they had already gotten out of their cuffs and done this to Britt? How the hell did this happen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Red flag number one, starting with the attack on Britt in the day room, Tinkerbell wanted to know why these two documented enemies, Dion Green and Michael Britt, were housed together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At no point should they have been on the same yard, let alone the same building.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Britt and Green?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Correct.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, department policy doesn’t say this is forbidden, but enemy concerns are a key factor in determining where it’s safe to house someone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is a huge safety issue and no-no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so to your mind, is this, um, incompetence or is this by design?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, at minimum, it’s incompetence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Red flag number two, after the attempted murder on Britt, they still kept all these guys housed in the same section together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not gonna sit here and judge whether, um, Aguilar was a good person or not, because it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t our job. Our job was to protect him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And everything she was reading in these reports was telling her they’d failed to do that job.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Phone static] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma’am, how are you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m doing okay. How are you this morning, Dion?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m just-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One second. I’m just trying to get my recorder hooked up, if that’s okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you record, you record our whole conversation, or you, or are you gonna edit some stuff, or how does that work?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, yeah. I’m recording it, and then I will edit it. I will edit it, so…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of our many conversations like this one, Green tells me that it was in early 2020 — now facing a murder charge for Aguilar and two attempted murder charges for Britt — that he started seeing quite a bit of Sgt. Kevin Steele. Steele, as the criminal prosecution coordinator, was the person who brought Green back and forth to take legal phone calls, and then as the pandemic got underway in 2020, to attend court hearings over Zoom. Green says Steele was trying to get him to talk, but he was sticking to his story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, and I was just constantly still lying to him, telling him that, uh, you know, “Ah man, it’s, this is what it was, man. Bottom line, he just had to go, and that was that.” I was, I just stuck to my statements, and kept going, you know? But he kept shooting little shots like, “Something’s keeping me up at night, Mr. Green,” and I was like, “Well uh, I don’t know what to tell you,” you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then, Green says, Steele found something that would change his whole understanding of the case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when he came and says, “Hey, uh, you know, we, we need to really talk.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Steele had found was a surveillance video of the B8 unit. According to Green, what this video shows is a dry run, where you can see them walking through some of the steps leading up to the murder. If true, this was a stunning piece of evidence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you, can you describe the dry run a little bit for me?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The dry run was exact same as the murder. The dry run was it was Monster and Kill-Kill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monster is Taylor’s prison name, and Kill-Kill is what they call Rodriguez.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monster and Kill-Kill was in the day room. I was in the cell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took place a week before the murder. Green says the two men were both brought out and shackled to chairs in the day room. The practice run was necessary, Green says, because after the attack on Britt, a new security measure had been added to the day room routine. Now, when they were brought out and chained to their chairs, a box, usually used in prison transport, was placed over the cuffs around their ankles, totally covering the keyhole, making them much more difficult to pick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since it’s double locked, the cuff won’t move. The cuff will not move. It won’t give an inch or nothing. The cuff just does not move.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there is a way around these black boxes. If the officers single lock the cuffs, out of laziness or forgetfulness, or as Green says, intentionally, you can easily slide a thin, flat piece of metal, like a flattened paper clip, into the side of the cuffs, lifting the teeth of the mechanism and popping it open. This totally circumvents the black boxes. Green says for all this to work, there was one more thing they needed to have in place: the help of officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everybody had it arranged with the COs that the test run and stuff was gonna happen today. So, we told them to be sure that you leave it single locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says ahead of the practice run, the officers in the unit had agreed to single lock the cuffs around their ankles, allowing them to test their plan, and Green says it worked like a dream. Taylor was out of his cuffs in seconds, and came to the door of Green’s cell, grabbed the weapons, and brought them back down to the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the video, it shows Monster engage in conversation with the towers and stuff, were talking to ’em. Monster and them w- was talking to ’em, the tower.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the tower, Green means the officer in the control booth overlooking the day room. Again, if true, this video appeared to reveal that officers had seen these two guys, who’d slipped their cuffs and tried to kill someone two months earlier, in the day room, and one of them gets out of those cuffs again, and the officers don’t do anything to stop it. Steele thought this was very strange that officers had allowed this to happen, Green says.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He brought the test run to me, he showed me on video, and that’s when it, that’s when the lies stopped. The lies stopped then, and the truth had to, had to, you know, start being told, and that’s where we at now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says he asked Steele what he was going to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Uh, are you going to just continue covering this up, like the, you know, the rest of your officers, the rest of you?” “No, I can’t. Absolutely not. I took an oath. I took an oath, and I stand on that. My integrity, my morals, my honor, you know? I, I, I had to, I have to.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s what Green says he told Steele. Officers, Green calls them cops, had told him that Aguilar was a child molester.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When the cops said that he’s a child molester, when you bring this information to guys in prison, right? Child molesters, rapists, and stuff like that, it’s somebody that’s, that, that’s a no-no for us, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are a lot of rules in prison, the official rules of the institution and the unwritten rules that everyone, including a lot of the officers, live by, or as Green says, manipulate for their own purposes. Green says the lieutenant of the unit, a man named Eric Baker, came to him because he was the shot caller, and asked him to handle Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, and you know, my name always came up with, with, with the “good business” you know? “He’s a serious man. He’s serious about his business, but he knows how to keep his mouth shut,” you know? So that’s how they just… You know, they just know in prison. You just know. COs know, and we know, who’s dirty and crooked. You know, once you’re in the game long enough.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he told Sgt. Steele that this lieutenant was the actual shot caller, and that Baker threatened him and forced him to carry out the murder. Now, I wanna be clear. We do not have any evidence of Baker’s involvement beyond Green’s word. In court filings, Baker has denied any involvement, and he told me on the phone that none of the multiple investigations into this incident have found him guilty of anything. When Green told me this about Baker, I was a bit skeptical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For one, it just seems like too many motives. They killed Aguilar because he was a child molester, because they were paid by officers to do so, and because they were threatened. So many times during these conversations with Green, I wished I could talk to Steele and ask him what he made of this man’s story, if there were aspect he’d doubted, but I had no way to do that, and no way to know if I was even getting the same story Green had told Steele. What Green told me is that Baker arranged for everything, for an officer to bring him the cutting tool to make the knives, for an officer to bring in heroin, methamphetamine, and weed for Green to give Taylor and Rodriguez as payment, an officer to make sure that the cuffs were not double locked, allowing them to escape the black boxes, and he directed the officer in the control booth not to fire the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was no gunfire, no Mini, no nothing. Your job is to save a person’s life, you know? So it’s, it’s just a lot of moving pieces to this, this execution that took place. You know, it was an execution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar, as we’ve said before, has no convictions for molesting a child, but Dion Green says he didn’t find this out until months after the murder, when Steele told him. Green says it became clear that officers had manipulated him. There was a different reason they wanted Aguilar dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Truth of the matter is it’s because of one damn reason, and that was because he assaulted the staff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar had assaulted an officer. Documents show about a week before the murder, as Aguilar was coming out of the shower, he kicked him in the chest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just can’t… Man, that, that just… Uh, that, that don’t go on. You just can’t assault the police or just assault without them doing nothing, without something, and if the right crew was on, it could cost you your life, like it did him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do I believe that an officer intentionally did or ordered this? In my gut, I have a very hard time saying yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Retired correctional officer, codenamed Tinkerbell, tells Julie and me there’s another scenario that’s not uncommon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes on tiers, people say stuff about inmates that they don’t like, that may or may not be true, so that other people assault them. So, for instance, I don’t like Julie. I’m on the tier, and I know that other inmates don’t like Julie, and I’m an officer, and I go up to Julie, and I’m like, “Julie, you shouldn’t have done this to that kid. You’re such a piece of shit.” And everyone else on the tier hears it. Now, the tier thinks that Julie is a child abuser, or a molester, or what have you. So now, me as an inmate, I’m gonna be like, “Hey, don’t worry about this. I got this,” and then they take care of business.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve heard this from other incarcerated people too, and there’s a documented case of something similar happening at another California prison in 2017. An incarcerated person came forward and told prison officials that he was part of a crew that officers allowed out of their cells in order to attack sex offenders. An investigation found a cache of weapons in a locked area only accessible to officers, and four officers were fired. Tinkerbell says Aguilar’s history shows he was difficult to handle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar was a, was a mouthy little shithead, but all in all, he didn’t do anything to have this happen to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But were all these people involved? The officers on duty the day of the killing, more officers who were there for the practice run, even a lieutenant? And did the videos of the practice run and the murder really show what Green said they showed? Could there be another, less nefarious explanation? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was hard to believe that such a complex and widespread conspiracy could take place in an institution with so many eyes watching, and why would officers risk their careers, their pensions, over a mouthy young guy? Again, these officers have denied any involvement, and as we uncovered evidence and looked over leaked documents, we discovered there was a big hold in Green’s explanation of the motive. Yes, Aguilar had assaulted an officer. Disciplinary records show that assault took place on December 6, 2019, six days before the murder. But here’s the thing. The practice run, where Green said they tested their plan to escape the black boxes, that actually happened the day before, on December 5th. So unless we were missing something, the plan to take Aguilar out had to have already been in place before Aguilar kicked that officer in the chest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew I’d have to ask Green about this discrepancy at some point, but I still couldn’t understand, if no officers were involved, if everything Green said was a lie, how had allegations that officers played a role in this murder made it all the way to the FBI? Officially, the FBI refused to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation, but in late September 2023, I spoke to a special agent on the phone who said the case was still active, and right before we launched this series, CDCR confirmed there is an ongoing investigation into Aguilar’s murder, involving outside law enforcement. CDCR declined to comment further. So, the FBI clearly thought there was something worth a multiyear investigation, and Steele, who’d worked in the ISU for years and had access to a lot more evidence than we did, appeared to take Green’s story very seriously.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Data we obtained from internal CDCR emails shows that about seven months after Aguilar was killed, Steele emailed Warden Jeff Lynch regarding interviews he’d done, video recordings of Dion Green’s statements, and other videos of Steele interviewing Cody Taylor, Monster.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever record any interviews with Kevin Steele?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Cody Taylor, and this is not true. I’ve spoken to multiple people who’ve seen those recordings that Steele made with Taylor, and I’ve seen them referenced in internal CDCR emails. But I also understand why he doesn’t want to admit it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why tell me and not him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s one thing to talk to the public, right? And it’s one thing to talk about the police, right? But it’s another thing… Like, you don’t be talking about inmates, and you don’t fucking talk to squad, which is another terminology for IGI, which is the gang taskforce.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is another one of those rules of prison life. Just like there’s a code of silence among officers, there’s a code of silence among incarcerated people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, you just don’t talk to them, period.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Taylor pleaded guilty, remember, he got 102 years, so the rules of prison life are the rules that will likely govern the rest of his life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But, I think what you guys really need to understand out there, man, is, you know, I didn’t create prison. I’m just living here trying to survive it, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As I spoke to Taylor, I tried to keep these rules in mind, and the other motivations that he likely had for talking to me. Before we talked on the phone in September of 2023, I had exchanged a few letters with him. Taylor had told me he was part of a gang and would need their permission to do the interview, so that was one factor. He also said he was interested in writing a book and that I could get famous if I helped him. So going into the interview, I already knew by his own admission that he was likely bound by the rules of his gang and wanted to promote their power, and that he was interested in fame, or at least notoriety. And so there’s this central tension in understanding everything that Taylor says. He both wants to talk and is fearful of crossing the gang or the guards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming in as a juvenile, I learned real quick, man, that, you know, it’s a different society in here, and it’s survival of the fittest, and so at the end of the day, you gotta choose. Do you wanna be a victim or you wanna be a suspect?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he killed Aguilar because he was in a warring gang. But like Green, he says without officer help, they couldn’t have gotten out of their shackles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s only two ways to get out of a black box.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One, he said, is to pick the master padlock on the black boxes, but that takes time. The other way is to get help from officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you look in the video, I’m out of my handcuffs within a matter of five seconds, so you know, you, you add one plus one, you, you, you’ll get the answer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Taylor, Aguilar’s assault on an officer the day after the practice run on December 6th just tipped the scales in their favor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It just so happened to happen that Mr. Aguilar assaulted one of ’em, and they came back immediately the next day and was like, “Here, bam. We got you. Don’t worry.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because, Taylor says, after Aguilar assaulted an officer, correctional staff in the unit agreed to facilitate the murder. This could partially explain the discrepancy in the timeline, because in Taylor’s telling, the assault is not a motive for officers to order the killing, but instead a motive for them to allow the killing, to single lock the cuffs and to agree not to fire the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reality behind the scenes is, is most of the murders in prison are done, or been able to be done, because the police let them. Number one, the police know about it before it’s gonna happen. Number two, they either allow it to happen, or number three, they do not do nothing to stop it from happening. And still to this day, man, you, you know, you run into a police officer, their favorite line is, “Hey, bro. This is level four. If it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen,” you know? So-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… they don’t do nothing to stop it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For people who might not understand what that, what that phrase means, like, what does that mean to you, “This is level four, it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen”?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so this is a maximum-security prison. The highest level, the most violent killers in the state of California are housed in one square little box, and if they’re gonna kill somebody, or the mob is gonna have them killed, it’s gonna happen. They’re not gonna stop it, because as soon as the police start to get involved in mob hits, it’s, it’s gonna be, you know, they’re gonna get killed, and so that in itself, the police do do the most not to get involved in prison gang politics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Taylor says that officers, in retaliation for the assault on one of their own and in order to keep their own safe, helped them carry out the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, ma’am. Well, you, well, you know where I’m at.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right. Thank you, Cody.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About a month after we spoke on the phone, I sent Taylor a message on his prison tablet. When he talked about his motive for the murder, he’d made it all about gang stuff, but I wanted to know if he’d also heard the rumor that Aguilar was a child molester. He replied back, “Yes. It turns out he wasn’t, some shit the police were saying. But Mr. Steele, the ISU officer, RIP, did in fact clarify.” So, that was another piece of Green’s story that Taylor backed up. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But in the next few messages Taylor sent me, he seemed to be spiraling. He said he was worried about having to testify in the lawsuit brought by Aguilar’s mom, and then that he was gonna file a lawsuit himself and subpoena me. The final message he sent was perhaps the most confusing of all. “Hey, don’t publish that. It’s not true. I wanted to use the story and info for a book, sad face. Sorry to waste your time. It just wasn’t true.” I asked him to clarify what wasn’t true, but he didn’t reply, and he blocked me on the messaging app.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think his fears about testifying in the lawsuit are a clue to Taylor’s sudden change of heart toward me. He had filed an objection in court, saying he wanted the family to know the truth, but it would put his life in danger to testify. A week after my last communication with Taylor, a judge heard Taylor’s objection, what’s called a motion to quash. I couldn’t record the hearing, but I listened in as Taylor told the judge his fears. Other incarcerated people could retaliate if they found out he’d broken the rules and worked with officers. Meanwhile, if he testified against the guards, he’d be in an impossible situation. He told the judge, “There’s two mysterious deaths, right? You got the officer Rodriguez that, you know, died of an overdose, and then you got the officer that quote-unquote ‘suicide.’ Like, just say hypothetically whatever I’m saying is bullshit, right? Whether it’s bullshit or not, which I, there’s evidence to support otherwise, but just the fact of me going up against these officers, I’m always gonna lose, Your Honor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this hearing, which was public, Taylor said that Steele had talked about getting him somewhere safe, like federal custody. The judge sounded very sympathetic to Taylor’s concerns, but said there was no legal basis to allow him not to testify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this, we went back and forth about what to include from Taylor. We didn’t wanna heighten the danger to him, but to leave out his story and choices he made, including his decision to talk to Steele, would also distort the truth. It’s our job to tell the truth. It’s ultimately CDCR’s job to keep him safe. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since the murder, he’s been bounced around to a few different prisons, including Pelican Bay in Stockton, where I talked to him. But just weeks before Taylor was supposed to give that deposition, CDCR transferred him again, back to New Folsom Prison. On the day he was supposed to be deposed, Taylor refused to attend the hearing, according to court documents. The attorney for CDCR is still trying to get him to testify.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was actually surprised to hear him saying that, you know, his life was in danger.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Taylor’s friend, Anthony Rodriguez, the third man who was charged in the murder, and is currently in Lancaster State Prison in Los Angeles County.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got, uh, 35 years to life for the murder, and 25 years to life for the attempted murder on Britt, and seven to life for the, for the weapon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d reached out to him by letter as a long shot. I honestly didn’t think he’d talk to me, because of the three guys who’d been involved in the murder, he was the only one who stuck to that rule. As far as I can tell, he never talked to Steele, or to internal affairs, or to the FBI. But for some reason, he did agree to talk to me, and later, he told me he agreed to give a deposition in the family’s lawsuit. He tells me, at first he couldn’t believe that Green and Taylor had talked to Steele, until his defense attorney showed him the videos Steele had made of his interviews with them — videos we still hadn’t been able to see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I actually watched them myself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, wow. Interesting. And did… What did… What did Taylor say in his video?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor said the same thing. He s- He said, uh, he said his, his life was in danger because he told them that the cops were involved. And like I said, a lot of stuff that they said wasn’t true. They added a lot more. I don’t know why. But there was some truth to it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Talking to Anthony Rodriguez was kind of surreal. I knew he’d committed a number of really terrible crimes. He and Taylor had even painted Aguilar’s blood across their faces. But the way he talked about killing Aguilar was totally casual. He said he did regret it, because if he hadn’t, he could be out right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As far as remorse, I, I really don’t feel it too much. I’ve always been like that, since I was a kid. I’ve never had those, those types of emotions. You know what I mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he says he didn’t murder Aguilar because he was a child molester or because Green told him to. The reason he gives, his motive for killing Aguilar, is based on something that from the outside, seems small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, can I ask w-Why Aguilar? Like, I was, I saw in your letter you said he crossed your name out on the yard, but like what does that mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean literally just what it means, you know? Uh, I have a habit of, of… We go into the same cages all the time when we go to yard. They put us in dog cages. We, we call them dog cages.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re held in a restricted housing unit like B8, you do get to have time outside, but only in these solitary cages. So Rodriguez says he wrote his moniker, Kill-Kill, on the side of the cage, and Aguilar wrote his nickname, Raskal, over top of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a habit of writing my name out in the cages, like with a pen, or a marker, or, or a crayon, or something, and that’s all he did. That, he just did that to me, and, and it’s, it’s a sign of big disrespect, so I did it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for officer involvement, Rodriguez says part of what Green and Taylor told Steele is true. Officers did help them in important ways. He says they agreed not to double lock their cuffs and they agreed not to use the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would you have been able to pull off the murder the way that it happened, you know, without any kind of assistance or complicity with the officers?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when it comes to the officers’ motive, Rodriguez says he’s in the dark.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To be honest with you, they probably got their own reasons. Uh, I really don’t know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In court filings, CDCR officials have denied that officers in any way helped these men carry out a murder. And I want to acknowledge something here. Each of these men are unreliable narrators, and I’m only playing small clips of the many hours I spent on the phone talking to them, in which I went down numerous rabbit holes and found plenty of contradictions and outright lies. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there was something attractive about Rodriguez’s story. Unlike the story Green tells, it’s simple. There doesn’t need to be a mass conspiracy, just a couple officers who basically agreed to look the other way. Pieces of Taylor’s story also explained a few things, the funky timeline, and he proposed a motive that makes sense for officers, that they agreed to help in part because one of their own was assaulted, and because it’s just practical. If a murder is going to happen, they wanna make sure no officers get injured in the process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um- \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Phone static]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you go to the deposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just… Yes, ma’am. I just came back right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How was it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And um… Probably it was like four hours, five hours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In September 2023, Dion Green told his story again, over Zoom, to the attorney for the officers and Claudia Bohorquez, Ma Rosario’s lawyer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when we were last talking, you said you were n- not sure if you wanted to do it or not, that you were nervous about it. Um, what made the difference for you today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just woke up saying like, I, I got to do right. That’s all.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says in the deposition, he repeated what he’d told Steele on the recorded video tapes about the practice run, the black boxes, and how they simply could not have pulled off the homicide without the help of officers. And he says he told Claudia that he also had a message for Aguilar’s family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I told her, I said, “Ms. Claudia, I did that. And that was a bad call. And it’s killing me. I’m sorry. I am so sorry.” I said, “I, I’m hurt by it. I’m just hurt. I’m hurt. That’s not cool.” But what’s my hurt to, compared to them? You know? This is all about them. And you know, I hate that Steele died, ma’am.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I hate he killed himself, but you know, that, that was like my, like a good friend of mine, man. It, it, it sucked. And he couldn’t take it. And I’m proud of what he did, though. I, I’m proud.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says making the choice to talk to Steele has also left him very isolated. Within days of making those recorded statements, that Green believed would be kept confidential, the word was out on the housing tier that he had talked, and he says the label of snitch has followed him. Taylor and Rodriguez have both distanced themselves from Green, and Green says officers have threatened him. When Steele died, he says he lost his one ally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listen, I don’t have anything. Look, all I have is you. Look, I’m already wanted. They gonna kill me. CDC officers is gonna kill me. When you put it on, on blast, everything, you know? It’s gonna be ugly. It’s gonna be ugly. But I want the podcast to start, because I’m gonna sit back and I’m gonna do roll call. I’m gonna do role call on, on all of them, on all CDC officers. I’m doing roll call, period. The podcast is coming out. I’m telling everybody, yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Well, it’s not coming out for a while yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Yeah. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also, just like, you know, in terms of my, you know, my job and my motivations, like I am, I’m here, I’m trying to get to the truth. I’m trying to, like, f- understand what happened, and like why, why Steele, um, killed himself. So it just, it makes me nervous when you say, uh, uh, say all you have is me, ’cause like, I am not, like, you know, on your side. Like, I am not your advocate. Um, so I just wanna… I wanna be clear about that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, it’s understandable. You know, I, I know that. You’re not on my side. You know what I’m saying? I know that. You got a job to do. You simply care about the job. All you care about is the facts of this, so you can… That’s your job. You don’t really care about me. You don’t care about none of that. I understand that. I am aware of that. This is the job. Nobody can tell you the truth of what took place in B8 on 12/12, except me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers’ involvement and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all I’m telling you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I, I, I, I know what it, when, when it all comes…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Automated voice:\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This call and/or telephone number will be monitored and recorded.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I am not mixing up words or l- making up feelings or… No, I, I know what your job is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not naïve. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m very cut and dry, and know what’s what.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s where we left it that day. I thank him for his time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Talk to you soon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye, Dion. Stay well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dion Green is a compelling person. In the hours we’ve spent on the phone, it’s been hard not to get sucked into his story, to maintain the distance to be able to evaluate whether he’s telling the truth or not. Once again, as I’ve been talking to him, I’ve been holding Steele in my mind, wishing I could talk to him and find out what he made of this guy, and what Green made of Steele. If Green recognized a man in the midst of a crisis of faith, and somehow played on it. As we neared our publication date, I knew I needed to ask Green about the biggest hole in his story: the timeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If the assault was the motive for the officers, how come all these plans were already in place to take out Aguilar?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, the p- Okay, no, not, not before, not before the assault on the police. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reports I’ve been able to get it says that Aguilar attacked somebody on December 6th, but the-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… practice run video was December 5th, so the practice run was the day before Aguilar assaulted an officer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, the practice run happened on the, on the 7th, 9, 10, 11, 12, 7th, 8th 9, 10, 11, 12… The practice run happened on the 7th. Are you sure it was the… It, it was-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you can hear, Green wasn’t sure of the date. He said people don’t keep track of dates in prison. But he acknowledged that it didn’t make sense for the assault — the supposed motive — to come after the practice run. But he didn’t back off his story, that officers were motivated by Aguilar’s assault on a guard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think my timeline is off. I could have swore he, he assaulted, assaulted staff earlier that month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green knew there had been that incident in the shower, and thought it must have happened earlier than the report said. To be honest, this sounded pretty implausible. And then about a week-and-a-half after this conversation, I got a call in December 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He had an incident prior to that, that they didn’t write him up, because he had came from yard, and he had headbutted one of them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This man didn’t want us to use his name, because he’s afraid of being labeled a snitch, but he said we could use his voice. He tells me that this incident where Aguilar headbutted an officer happened before the time he kicked the officer in the shower, which put it before the practice run. I’d actually reached out to him months earlier, because I’d heard he was a witness to the murder, but he said he’d only just now gotten my message. He and Aguilar were housed near each other when that earlier assault happened. He says Aguilar was angry because something was going on with his daughter and he ran out of phone time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they wouldn’t give him another phone call, and he had headbutted them coming back from yard. And they beat him up, and they, they didn’t write him up because they had busted his nose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they busted his nose. Why wouldn’t they write him up for that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they now used excessive force, and it happened, and it, and it happened where he was… Like, I guess he wasn’t resisting no more. I guess when he headbutted one of them, he proned out on the ground.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This man says that’s when a different officer kicked him in the face. That’s a policy violation, so he says officers didn’t document it. He tells me he remembers the nurse who came to Aguilar’s cell door. This man’s story about this incident is full of details, the names of the involved officers, the name of the nurse, the type of form that she filled out. I’m not including all those details here because I haven’t been able to find any other evidence to confirm that this incident happened. I did reach out to the nurse, but she said she couldn’t talk to me about anything related to CDCR. CDCR said there was no injury form for Aguilar. But all these details are things that investigators with access to the prison should be able to corroborate or disprove.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever talk to the FBI?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, not to the actual FBI, but to Internal Affairs, to the DA, and to the ISU.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says they called him in for an interview because he’d sent a letter to the district attorney saying Aguilar’s murder had been a setup.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I sent the letter the same week of the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Other sources confirmed the existence of this man’s letter. He says Steele was in the room with prison officials and the district attorney’s office was on speakerphone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They asked me, did I have any information, such as, “How did I know that it was a setup?” And I told them because they told him that they had to search his cell, and he told them that he didn’t want to come out the cell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, Aguilar had refused to come out to the day room, he says, because he was scared of being attacked, and that the officers made him come out anyway. In that letter, this man says he also told the DA that there was a practice run, where Taylor got out of his cuffs and ran around the day room, and that it was caught on surveillance cameras. He says this initial interview with the DA and prison officials happened within weeks of the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right. I appreciate your time. Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re welcome. You have a good day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You too. Bye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If true, this revelation was pretty incredible. Not only did this man share details of an earlier assault that could bolster Green’s story of staff retaliation, but he was also saying that prison officials knew there were allegations that this murder was a setup within weeks of the homicide. Yet, it does not appear that any officers were reassigned or that a meaningful investigation was launched until months later, after Steele started turning over stones. But what had started Steele going down that path, and when did he begin to feel that his efforts were being ignored? This is where we were at when this podcast launched in early February. Those questions kind of seemed unanswerable. And then, a huge bombshell landed in our laps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ambient sound – driving] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here we are, Julie and I, in the car driving up towards Sacramento again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To see evidence that we have been wanting to see and trying to see for nearly two years now. And-\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A secret source had reached out. And we were going to get to see the videos of the practice run and the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar for ourselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re going to see it finally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we don’t know quite what the circumstances will be, if we’ll be able to take the recordings and use them, or if we just will have an opportunity to view them. Um, but this is, is really a significant breakthrough, and it is coming week two of launch, so we\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [laughs] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">we have two episodes out already. We are supposed to be, uh, wrapping everything up, and this is, this is really a kind of game-changing, Earth-shattering development.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But we still didn’t know — how would this change our understanding of these competing stories and our understanding of Kevin Steele? It turns out there were a lot of materials to go through, so bear with us, ’cause we need some time to make sense of them. The next episode in this series will be coming out on April 2nd, when you’ll finally get to hear the testimony that launched Steele’s investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what? Initially, hey, uh, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody, and, and I’m s- if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The caliber of man of who I am, and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. To not secure us-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season 2: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. This series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauleón. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts, and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact-checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair, David Barstow, provided valuable support for the whole series. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR, and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And, thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor, Jr., Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "6. The Day Room | S2: New Folsom | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The team digs deep into the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar—the murder in the day room that Officer Valentino Rodriguez was tasked to write a report about, and that had consumed Sgt. Kevin Steele up until the last day of his life. We track down each of the men who took part in the stabbing to find out: did officers also play a role?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9838235524\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes graphic descriptions of violence, homicide, and briefly references a suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sukey, did you wanna start with the first question?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The first thing we were gonna say is that we understand it can be difficult and emotional, so if there’s some point where you need to take a break or you don’t wanna talk, that’s, that’s okay. If there’s any questions that you’re not comfortable with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Si te cuesta hablar de esto díganos, podemos tomar una descanso.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In September of 2022, one of the show’s producers, Steven Rascon, and I got on a Zoom call with this woman.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok. Mi nombre es este “eme a” rosario Buena Zaragoza.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario is the mother of Luis Giovanny Aguilar the, man whose murder in the day room at New Folsom Prison is at the heart of our story, the same man on the video that Officer Valentino Rodriguez showed his father at the Christmas party — a brutal stabbing that seemed to go on and on, while the officer in the control booth only fired those foam bullets. Questions about this murder and whether officers had set it up had also consumed Sgt. Kevin Steele up until the last day of his life. And we knew at this point, almost three years later, the FBI was also still looking into this case, just like we were. We hoped the woman on this Zoom call could help us understand a bit about the victim at the center of all this, her son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y cómo fue tu relación con Luis Giovanny?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Muy bonita para mi muy bonita la relación de mi hijo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We had a very beautiful relationship. He was very sweet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo adoraba mi hijo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I adored him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s Claudia Bohorquez, Ma Rosario’s attorney, who’s helping Ma Rosario sue New Folsom officials and is translating for her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Estoy en Tijuana…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario had moved back to Tijuana from Los Angeles after she split up with Luis Giovanny’s dad, but her son stayed living in LA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cuando mi hijo fue a la cárcel… pues me sentí mal. Me puse a llorar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When my son went to jail, I felt horrible. I got sick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The police report says in 2009, Luis Giovanny got in an argument with his girlfriend, and he hit her. She was holding their one-year-old daughter. Luis Giovanny, who was 19 at the time, swung again, missing his girlfriend and giving his daughter a bloody nose. He took a plea deal and was sent to prison. He got out in 2018.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me quería desmayar cuando lo vi…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanted to faint when I saw him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Out of prison and now in his late 20s, he came to see his mom in Tijuana.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Porque fue una impresión ver a mi bebe tan grandote tan guapo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a very strong impact for me to see my baby now a grown man, and so handsome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yo lo miraba muy feliz y yo tengo esa foto muy feliz…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She holds up a picture from that visit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y una foto donde me dio una abrazo, fuerte fuerte.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re side by side, hugging each other tightly, their faces pressed against each other. Luis Giovanny looks young, with a buzzed haircut and mustache. It was the last time she saw him. After his visit, Luis Giovanny went back to The States, and before too long, again got arrested, this time for stealing a car and trying to flee police. Claudia, the attorney, says this whole thing was based on a misunderstanding. It was his uncle’s car, and he took it without asking. But with his prior record, he was sent back to prison for four years. And of course, he wasn’t sent to just any prison. He ended up in the most dangerous prison in the state, locked up in an incredibly high-security unit with men who’d been convicted of the most serious crimes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Todo ese tiempo yo no pude hablar con él, solo por cartas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I couldn’t talk to him, I could only communicate with him through letters. I could not speak to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario tells us her son didn’t want her to worry about him, so in his letters, he didn’t really talk about his life in prison, but he would send artwork.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sí, él lo dibujó.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s amazing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over Zoom, she shows us some pictures he drew.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little closer too. Isn’t that amazing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A la pantalla…cerca\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Including a detailed, almost photorealistic black-and-white portrait of his grandfather, Ma Rosario’s father, a man with strong cheekbones, wearing a cowboy hat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s so good.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The last letter she received from him was in early December, 2019. Eight days later, she says she was out looking for a Christmas tree. When she got home, she noticed that she had missed a bunch of calls. Her ex, Luis Giovanny’s father, was trying to get in touch with her, so she called him, already fearing something terrible had happened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He didn’t know even how to tell me that, that our son was, had been killed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cuando yo supe la noticia, cuando exploté, yo grité y le di golpes a la pared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She said, “When I found out, I, I screamed. I hit the wall.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What did they say had happened to him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ma Rosario Bueno Zaragoza:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Una pelea.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That he had, uh, it was a fight, and that they had stabbed my son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A fight?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Claudia Bohorquez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, a fight.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was the first story she was told about her son’s death, and we know this was not true. There was no fight.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma Rosario, just like us, is still trying to understand what is the real truth of what happened on December 12, 2019, in the restricted, high-security B8 Unit at New Folsom Prison. In this episode, we’re gonna dive deep into this case to try to answer that question, but it won’t be easy. Key witnesses have died, evidence is missing, and everyone we talked to who knows what happened seems to have a reason to lie. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season 2: New Folsom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get into the weeds, let’s start with the basic facts of what happened on December 12, 2019, facts that aren’t disputed, and that are reflected in internal CDCR reports that were leaked to us by a confidential source. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That day, 29-year-old Luis Giovanny Aguilar was brought down by officers into the day room, a shared space, typically used for recreation and classes. It was a new program, and pretty unusual for a solitary housing unit, or a SHU, like this. Two other men, Cody Taylor and Anthony Rodriguez, were brought down next, and there’s an elaborate security protocol to this. Each of the men were strip searched, wanded with a metal detector, and placed in restraints, handcuffs attached to a waist chain and ankle restraints.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once in the day room, each of these men were then attached by those ankle shackles to their chairs. Overlooking the day room was a control booth, where an officer sat. His job was to monitor the unit, and he had a 40-millimeter gun that shot foam projectiles and a deadly Mini-14 rifle in the booth for use if necessary. We do not know what the officer was doing or if he saw that Rodriguez and Taylor were working quickly to get out of their restraints. Once freed, Rodriguez went up the stairs and retrieved two long improvised knives from the cell of another incarcerated man on the second tier, Dion Green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rodriguez then came back down and handed one of the knives to Taylor. The two then approached Aguilar and began stabbing him as he sat shackled and unable to move. They stabbed him 55 times. The reports that were leaked by a confidential source do not say how long this took. They also don’t say when the control booth officer took action, but at some point, he did fire four foam rounds. Taylor and Rodriguez eventually stopped their attack, threw down their weapons, and lay facedown on the floor. Responding officers flooded into the day room. Among the officers who responded that day was Sgt. Kevin Steele. Steele, trained as a medic in the Air Force, tried to resuscitate Aguilar, but all the efforts to revive him were unsuccessful, and he was pronounced dead at the on-site medical center.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew Kevin knew something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Dion Green. He was in his cell in the second tier of the housing unit. Minutes earlier, he’d handed the knives under the door to Anthony Rodriguez, and then the murder played out. Now he watched as the veteran investigator took in the scene.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He was the only one, when they all came inside the day room, it was about 30, 40 cops, squad and everybody. He was the only one just looking around. He was looking. He was standing there just looking, and wanted to know, “How the hell did they pull this off?” And he was just looking at the cameras, looking at the, the locks, the chains, looking up, you know, at the, at, at the cell, looking up how we came, uh, orchestrated everything. He was like, “Nah, something’s missing.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But at first, all the evidence pointed to an open-and-shut case. Within hours, Green had confessed to ordering the hit, and all three men were eventually charged with murder. Cody Taylor pled out first, taking a 102-year sentence. Anthony Rodriguez pled next and got 34 years to life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m the only one that hasn’t resolved my issues with, with the case yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’ll hear from Taylor and Rodriguez later on too, but I wanted to talk to Green first, because I knew from reading through court documents and talking to sources that Steele had convinced Green to do something pretty remarkable: cooperate with his investigation. It seemed like he was the key to understanding Steele’s obsession with this case. Now keep in mind, Green also has his own reasons for talking to me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My life is on the line here. Please understand this. This is as serious it is as I, as I’m telling you, ma’am. If I don’t die from my heart failure, I’m gonna die in the hands of CDCR. They’re gonna set me up and kill me, I promise you that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Department officials have said in court filings that Green is not in danger. Over the past year, I’ve talked to Green many times. Originally from the Chicago and Detroit areas, Green was convicted of murder in California when he was 20. He’s been in prison ever since. Last year, I visited him at a prison in Stockton, California for people with serious medical conditions. He’s 50 years old now, and needs a walker to get around.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not as healthy as I used to be. I never been around this corner before. I’m not the same as I used to be, but I’m still considered a very dangerous man.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green has dark eyes, with an unusual gray-blue ring around them. He says they’ve always been that way. He’s black and Puerto Rican, and he has pentagram tattoos on his hands and 666 tattooed on the back of his head. In prison, he goes by the nickname G Satan, or Satan. Four-and-a-half years ago, before the murder, before his heart problems and his health deteriorated, when he was transferred into the restricted B8 Unit at New Folsom Prison, he says he had even more power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everything ran through me, you know what I’m saying? Everything ran through me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of people were in the B8 unit for committing new crimes in prison. That’s part of what the unit was for, and Green was no exception. He’d been moved to New Folsom because he was found with a weapon after trying to kill a man in Lancaster State Prison in Southern California. That man was named Michael Britt, and he’s important because what happened with Britt laid the groundwork for everything that happened later with Luis Giovanny Aguilar. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Green showed up at New Folsom in September of 2019, he discovered something. His old enemy, Britt, was also there, in the exact same unit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I got here, moving me over to long-term, was my documented enemy — that’s how all started it. You put me right next to him on an ongoing case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, CDCR policy doesn’t outright bar wardens from placing two people like this, who are documented enemies, near each other. There are a lot of enemies behind bars, and sometimes it can’t be helped. For example, both Britt and Green likely had to be in the restricted unit because of their histories and how the department had classified them, but within that restricted unit, there were three different housing sections. Officers I spoke to say choosing to put both Green and Britt in the same housing section was a bad idea and a big security risk. And looking at this case, you can see why. Just a couple weeks after Green arrives in the unit, two men slip out of their cuffs in the day room and stab his enemy, Michael Britt, multiple times, as Green looked on from his chair in the day room. Britt is rushed to the hospital and ultimately survives this second attempt on his life. Green tells prison officials he was behind it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went in there as an older homie. I said, “Listen, this case is some business from Lancaster. You guys wasn’t even supposed to put us together.” X, Y, and Z, I went in there and said what I needed to say.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green said he was a high-ranking member of a prison gang who orchestrated the hit by, “Influencing two inmates to carry it out,” according to court records. Those two incarcerated men under his influence were Cody Taylor and Anthony Rodriguez. So within a month of arriving at New Folsom, Green had found his hitters, and established himself as the shot caller of the secure housing unit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two months after the attempt on Britt, this same team struck again, the same guys, in the same housing section, in the same day room. But this time, the victim was Luis Giovanny Aguilar, and this time, their victim died. When Green was interviewed by investigators from the DA’s office that same night, he claimed responsibility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It was me. I ordered this.” You know what I’m saying? “It was this business.” You know, I went in there and, uh, made it seem like that I was just the worst fucking dude on the face of this Earth, you know? That I was this heartless fucking dude, and I just killed this dude in this gang business, and it, you know, that’s my statements.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Internal reports leaked by a confidential source reflect this. These reports say that Green called the murder, “Business.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s what the script was, so it can just all go away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now Green says that script was just a story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That shit was made up, man, period.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was asking what you, what you know about Dion Green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dion Green… What, oh, the inmate?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The shot caller, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or, the quote-unquote-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, honestly, I think if, uh, people worked hard enough, I think you could get him to tell you the truth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This correctional officer retired from the department after working at New Folsom for 15 years. She didn’t want us to use her real name, because she’s afraid of retaliation, so my co-reporter Julie gave her a codename: Tinkerbell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aww.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ‘Cause your hairstyle reminds me-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah, I love-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…of her hairstyle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…Tinkerbell. Oh yeah, totally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She explains why Green had power in the prison.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s a shot caller because he’s got a lot of people that put money on his books. He has access to dope. So you have a bunch of dope heads and people that are in there, and they know that all they have to do is kill somebody in order to, you know, be in good graces with Green, or to get the dope, or to whatever. They have nothing to lose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Tinkerbell’s pointing out is that life can be cheap in prison — the cost of a cell phone or some drugs. In the past decade, at least 33 people have been killed in New Folsom alone. We tried to compare this number to prisons across the state, but both the Department of Justice and CDCR had problems with their data, so getting an accurate number of people killed in California prisons was impossible. When Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed, Tinkerbell says she was off work recovering from an injury, and didn’t think much of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you hear that, it’s like it’s, “Okay, well, I mean, it’s, oh, it’s another homicide.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when she got back to work, she started looking into the details of what happened with the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whenever we had incidents, or whenever we got new inmates, I was very nosy. I want to know and understand these guys’ mentality. I wanna know what their history is at other prisons. Um, I wanna know whatever I can to protect other inmates, to protect that inmate, and to protect our staff, always, always, always why I was nosy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says she already knew the reputations of his killers, Rodriguez and Taylor, so she was snooping through their prior cases.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was looking at Taylor’s history, and I saw that he had stabbed Britt, and I went in, and I was like, “Oh, well what’s the circumstances of this?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she started to connect the dots. Before they killed Aguilar, they’d tried the same thing with Michael Britt.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And like, my red flags started going off in a major way. I’m like, first of all, how in the hell did it happen almost identically twice? And how in the hell did these guys get out of their cuffs, or weren’t supervised, knowing that they had already gotten out of their cuffs and done this to Britt? How the hell did this happen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Red flag number one, starting with the attack on Britt in the day room, Tinkerbell wanted to know why these two documented enemies, Dion Green and Michael Britt, were housed together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At no point should they have been on the same yard, let alone the same building.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Britt and Green?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Correct.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, department policy doesn’t say this is forbidden, but enemy concerns are a key factor in determining where it’s safe to house someone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is a huge safety issue and no-no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so to your mind, is this, um, incompetence or is this by design?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, at minimum, it’s incompetence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Red flag number two, after the attempted murder on Britt, they still kept all these guys housed in the same section together.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not gonna sit here and judge whether, um, Aguilar was a good person or not, because it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t our job. Our job was to protect him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And everything she was reading in these reports was telling her they’d failed to do that job.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Phone static] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ma’am, how are you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m doing okay. How are you this morning, Dion?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m just-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One second. I’m just trying to get my recorder hooked up, if that’s okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you record, you record our whole conversation, or you, or are you gonna edit some stuff, or how does that work?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, yeah. I’m recording it, and then I will edit it. I will edit it, so…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of our many conversations like this one, Green tells me that it was in early 2020 — now facing a murder charge for Aguilar and two attempted murder charges for Britt — that he started seeing quite a bit of Sgt. Kevin Steele. Steele, as the criminal prosecution coordinator, was the person who brought Green back and forth to take legal phone calls, and then as the pandemic got underway in 2020, to attend court hearings over Zoom. Green says Steele was trying to get him to talk, but he was sticking to his story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, and I was just constantly still lying to him, telling him that, uh, you know, “Ah man, it’s, this is what it was, man. Bottom line, he just had to go, and that was that.” I was, I just stuck to my statements, and kept going, you know? But he kept shooting little shots like, “Something’s keeping me up at night, Mr. Green,” and I was like, “Well uh, I don’t know what to tell you,” you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then, Green says, Steele found something that would change his whole understanding of the case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when he came and says, “Hey, uh, you know, we, we need to really talk.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Steele had found was a surveillance video of the B8 unit. According to Green, what this video shows is a dry run, where you can see them walking through some of the steps leading up to the murder. If true, this was a stunning piece of evidence.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you, can you describe the dry run a little bit for me?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The dry run was exact same as the murder. The dry run was it was Monster and Kill-Kill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monster is Taylor’s prison name, and Kill-Kill is what they call Rodriguez.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Monster and Kill-Kill was in the day room. I was in the cell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took place a week before the murder. Green says the two men were both brought out and shackled to chairs in the day room. The practice run was necessary, Green says, because after the attack on Britt, a new security measure had been added to the day room routine. Now, when they were brought out and chained to their chairs, a box, usually used in prison transport, was placed over the cuffs around their ankles, totally covering the keyhole, making them much more difficult to pick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since it’s double locked, the cuff won’t move. The cuff will not move. It won’t give an inch or nothing. The cuff just does not move.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there is a way around these black boxes. If the officers single lock the cuffs, out of laziness or forgetfulness, or as Green says, intentionally, you can easily slide a thin, flat piece of metal, like a flattened paper clip, into the side of the cuffs, lifting the teeth of the mechanism and popping it open. This totally circumvents the black boxes. Green says for all this to work, there was one more thing they needed to have in place: the help of officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everybody had it arranged with the COs that the test run and stuff was gonna happen today. So, we told them to be sure that you leave it single locked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says ahead of the practice run, the officers in the unit had agreed to single lock the cuffs around their ankles, allowing them to test their plan, and Green says it worked like a dream. Taylor was out of his cuffs in seconds, and came to the door of Green’s cell, grabbed the weapons, and brought them back down to the day room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On the video, it shows Monster engage in conversation with the towers and stuff, were talking to ’em. Monster and them w- was talking to ’em, the tower.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the tower, Green means the officer in the control booth overlooking the day room. Again, if true, this video appeared to reveal that officers had seen these two guys, who’d slipped their cuffs and tried to kill someone two months earlier, in the day room, and one of them gets out of those cuffs again, and the officers don’t do anything to stop it. Steele thought this was very strange that officers had allowed this to happen, Green says.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He brought the test run to me, he showed me on video, and that’s when it, that’s when the lies stopped. The lies stopped then, and the truth had to, had to, you know, start being told, and that’s where we at now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says he asked Steele what he was going to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Uh, are you going to just continue covering this up, like the, you know, the rest of your officers, the rest of you?” “No, I can’t. Absolutely not. I took an oath. I took an oath, and I stand on that. My integrity, my morals, my honor, you know? I, I, I had to, I have to.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s what Green says he told Steele. Officers, Green calls them cops, had told him that Aguilar was a child molester.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When the cops said that he’s a child molester, when you bring this information to guys in prison, right? Child molesters, rapists, and stuff like that, it’s somebody that’s, that, that’s a no-no for us, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are a lot of rules in prison, the official rules of the institution and the unwritten rules that everyone, including a lot of the officers, live by, or as Green says, manipulate for their own purposes. Green says the lieutenant of the unit, a man named Eric Baker, came to him because he was the shot caller, and asked him to handle Aguilar.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, and you know, my name always came up with, with, with the “good business” you know? “He’s a serious man. He’s serious about his business, but he knows how to keep his mouth shut,” you know? So that’s how they just… You know, they just know in prison. You just know. COs know, and we know, who’s dirty and crooked. You know, once you’re in the game long enough.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says he told Sgt. Steele that this lieutenant was the actual shot caller, and that Baker threatened him and forced him to carry out the murder. Now, I wanna be clear. We do not have any evidence of Baker’s involvement beyond Green’s word. In court filings, Baker has denied any involvement, and he told me on the phone that none of the multiple investigations into this incident have found him guilty of anything. When Green told me this about Baker, I was a bit skeptical.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For one, it just seems like too many motives. They killed Aguilar because he was a child molester, because they were paid by officers to do so, and because they were threatened. So many times during these conversations with Green, I wished I could talk to Steele and ask him what he made of this man’s story, if there were aspect he’d doubted, but I had no way to do that, and no way to know if I was even getting the same story Green had told Steele. What Green told me is that Baker arranged for everything, for an officer to bring him the cutting tool to make the knives, for an officer to bring in heroin, methamphetamine, and weed for Green to give Taylor and Rodriguez as payment, an officer to make sure that the cuffs were not double locked, allowing them to escape the black boxes, and he directed the officer in the control booth not to fire the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There was no gunfire, no Mini, no nothing. Your job is to save a person’s life, you know? So it’s, it’s just a lot of moving pieces to this, this execution that took place. You know, it was an execution.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar, as we’ve said before, has no convictions for molesting a child, but Dion Green says he didn’t find this out until months after the murder, when Steele told him. Green says it became clear that officers had manipulated him. There was a different reason they wanted Aguilar dead.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Truth of the matter is it’s because of one damn reason, and that was because he assaulted the staff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar had assaulted an officer. Documents show about a week before the murder, as Aguilar was coming out of the shower, he kicked him in the chest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You just can’t… Man, that, that just… Uh, that, that don’t go on. You just can’t assault the police or just assault without them doing nothing, without something, and if the right crew was on, it could cost you your life, like it did him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ad break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do I believe that an officer intentionally did or ordered this? In my gut, I have a very hard time saying yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Retired correctional officer, codenamed Tinkerbell, tells Julie and me there’s another scenario that’s not uncommon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes on tiers, people say stuff about inmates that they don’t like, that may or may not be true, so that other people assault them. So, for instance, I don’t like Julie. I’m on the tier, and I know that other inmates don’t like Julie, and I’m an officer, and I go up to Julie, and I’m like, “Julie, you shouldn’t have done this to that kid. You’re such a piece of shit.” And everyone else on the tier hears it. Now, the tier thinks that Julie is a child abuser, or a molester, or what have you. So now, me as an inmate, I’m gonna be like, “Hey, don’t worry about this. I got this,” and then they take care of business.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve heard this from other incarcerated people too, and there’s a documented case of something similar happening at another California prison in 2017. An incarcerated person came forward and told prison officials that he was part of a crew that officers allowed out of their cells in order to attack sex offenders. An investigation found a cache of weapons in a locked area only accessible to officers, and four officers were fired. Tinkerbell says Aguilar’s history shows he was difficult to handle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aguilar was a, was a mouthy little shithead, but all in all, he didn’t do anything to have this happen to him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But were all these people involved? The officers on duty the day of the killing, more officers who were there for the practice run, even a lieutenant? And did the videos of the practice run and the murder really show what Green said they showed? Could there be another, less nefarious explanation? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was hard to believe that such a complex and widespread conspiracy could take place in an institution with so many eyes watching, and why would officers risk their careers, their pensions, over a mouthy young guy? Again, these officers have denied any involvement, and as we uncovered evidence and looked over leaked documents, we discovered there was a big hold in Green’s explanation of the motive. Yes, Aguilar had assaulted an officer. Disciplinary records show that assault took place on December 6, 2019, six days before the murder. But here’s the thing. The practice run, where Green said they tested their plan to escape the black boxes, that actually happened the day before, on December 5th. So unless we were missing something, the plan to take Aguilar out had to have already been in place before Aguilar kicked that officer in the chest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I knew I’d have to ask Green about this discrepancy at some point, but I still couldn’t understand, if no officers were involved, if everything Green said was a lie, how had allegations that officers played a role in this murder made it all the way to the FBI? Officially, the FBI refused to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation, but in late September 2023, I spoke to a special agent on the phone who said the case was still active, and right before we launched this series, CDCR confirmed there is an ongoing investigation into Aguilar’s murder, involving outside law enforcement. CDCR declined to comment further. So, the FBI clearly thought there was something worth a multiyear investigation, and Steele, who’d worked in the ISU for years and had access to a lot more evidence than we did, appeared to take Green’s story very seriously.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Data we obtained from internal CDCR emails shows that about seven months after Aguilar was killed, Steele emailed Warden Jeff Lynch regarding interviews he’d done, video recordings of Dion Green’s statements, and other videos of Steele interviewing Cody Taylor, Monster.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever record any interviews with Kevin Steele?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Cody Taylor, and this is not true. I’ve spoken to multiple people who’ve seen those recordings that Steele made with Taylor, and I’ve seen them referenced in internal CDCR emails. But I also understand why he doesn’t want to admit it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why tell me and not him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s one thing to talk to the public, right? And it’s one thing to talk about the police, right? But it’s another thing… Like, you don’t be talking about inmates, and you don’t fucking talk to squad, which is another terminology for IGI, which is the gang taskforce.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is another one of those rules of prison life. Just like there’s a code of silence among officers, there’s a code of silence among incarcerated people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, you just don’t talk to them, period.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Taylor pleaded guilty, remember, he got 102 years, so the rules of prison life are the rules that will likely govern the rest of his life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But, I think what you guys really need to understand out there, man, is, you know, I didn’t create prison. I’m just living here trying to survive it, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As I spoke to Taylor, I tried to keep these rules in mind, and the other motivations that he likely had for talking to me. Before we talked on the phone in September of 2023, I had exchanged a few letters with him. Taylor had told me he was part of a gang and would need their permission to do the interview, so that was one factor. He also said he was interested in writing a book and that I could get famous if I helped him. So going into the interview, I already knew by his own admission that he was likely bound by the rules of his gang and wanted to promote their power, and that he was interested in fame, or at least notoriety. And so there’s this central tension in understanding everything that Taylor says. He both wants to talk and is fearful of crossing the gang or the guards.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming in as a juvenile, I learned real quick, man, that, you know, it’s a different society in here, and it’s survival of the fittest, and so at the end of the day, you gotta choose. Do you wanna be a victim or you wanna be a suspect?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor says he killed Aguilar because he was in a warring gang. But like Green, he says without officer help, they couldn’t have gotten out of their shackles.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s only two ways to get out of a black box.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One, he said, is to pick the master padlock on the black boxes, but that takes time. The other way is to get help from officers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you look in the video, I’m out of my handcuffs within a matter of five seconds, so you know, you, you add one plus one, you, you, you’ll get the answer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Taylor, Aguilar’s assault on an officer the day after the practice run on December 6th just tipped the scales in their favor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It just so happened to happen that Mr. Aguilar assaulted one of ’em, and they came back immediately the next day and was like, “Here, bam. We got you. Don’t worry.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because, Taylor says, after Aguilar assaulted an officer, correctional staff in the unit agreed to facilitate the murder. This could partially explain the discrepancy in the timeline, because in Taylor’s telling, the assault is not a motive for officers to order the killing, but instead a motive for them to allow the killing, to single lock the cuffs and to agree not to fire the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reality behind the scenes is, is most of the murders in prison are done, or been able to be done, because the police let them. Number one, the police know about it before it’s gonna happen. Number two, they either allow it to happen, or number three, they do not do nothing to stop it from happening. And still to this day, man, you, you know, you run into a police officer, their favorite line is, “Hey, bro. This is level four. If it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen,” you know? So-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… they don’t do nothing to stop it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For people who might not understand what that, what that phrase means, like, what does that mean to you, “This is level four, it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen”?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so this is a maximum-security prison. The highest level, the most violent killers in the state of California are housed in one square little box, and if they’re gonna kill somebody, or the mob is gonna have them killed, it’s gonna happen. They’re not gonna stop it, because as soon as the police start to get involved in mob hits, it’s, it’s gonna be, you know, they’re gonna get killed, and so that in itself, the police do do the most not to get involved in prison gang politics.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Taylor says that officers, in retaliation for the assault on one of their own and in order to keep their own safe, helped them carry out the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, ma’am. Well, you, well, you know where I’m at.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right. Thank you, Cody.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Driving music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About a month after we spoke on the phone, I sent Taylor a message on his prison tablet. When he talked about his motive for the murder, he’d made it all about gang stuff, but I wanted to know if he’d also heard the rumor that Aguilar was a child molester. He replied back, “Yes. It turns out he wasn’t, some shit the police were saying. But Mr. Steele, the ISU officer, RIP, did in fact clarify.” So, that was another piece of Green’s story that Taylor backed up. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But in the next few messages Taylor sent me, he seemed to be spiraling. He said he was worried about having to testify in the lawsuit brought by Aguilar’s mom, and then that he was gonna file a lawsuit himself and subpoena me. The final message he sent was perhaps the most confusing of all. “Hey, don’t publish that. It’s not true. I wanted to use the story and info for a book, sad face. Sorry to waste your time. It just wasn’t true.” I asked him to clarify what wasn’t true, but he didn’t reply, and he blocked me on the messaging app.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think his fears about testifying in the lawsuit are a clue to Taylor’s sudden change of heart toward me. He had filed an objection in court, saying he wanted the family to know the truth, but it would put his life in danger to testify. A week after my last communication with Taylor, a judge heard Taylor’s objection, what’s called a motion to quash. I couldn’t record the hearing, but I listened in as Taylor told the judge his fears. Other incarcerated people could retaliate if they found out he’d broken the rules and worked with officers. Meanwhile, if he testified against the guards, he’d be in an impossible situation. He told the judge, “There’s two mysterious deaths, right? You got the officer Rodriguez that, you know, died of an overdose, and then you got the officer that quote-unquote ‘suicide.’ Like, just say hypothetically whatever I’m saying is bullshit, right? Whether it’s bullshit or not, which I, there’s evidence to support otherwise, but just the fact of me going up against these officers, I’m always gonna lose, Your Honor.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this hearing, which was public, Taylor said that Steele had talked about getting him somewhere safe, like federal custody. The judge sounded very sympathetic to Taylor’s concerns, but said there was no legal basis to allow him not to testify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this, we went back and forth about what to include from Taylor. We didn’t wanna heighten the danger to him, but to leave out his story and choices he made, including his decision to talk to Steele, would also distort the truth. It’s our job to tell the truth. It’s ultimately CDCR’s job to keep him safe. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since the murder, he’s been bounced around to a few different prisons, including Pelican Bay in Stockton, where I talked to him. But just weeks before Taylor was supposed to give that deposition, CDCR transferred him again, back to New Folsom Prison. On the day he was supposed to be deposed, Taylor refused to attend the hearing, according to court documents. The attorney for CDCR is still trying to get him to testify.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music break]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was actually surprised to hear him saying that, you know, his life was in danger.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Taylor’s friend, Anthony Rodriguez, the third man who was charged in the murder, and is currently in Lancaster State Prison in Los Angeles County.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got, uh, 35 years to life for the murder, and 25 years to life for the attempted murder on Britt, and seven to life for the, for the weapon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d reached out to him by letter as a long shot. I honestly didn’t think he’d talk to me, because of the three guys who’d been involved in the murder, he was the only one who stuck to that rule. As far as I can tell, he never talked to Steele, or to internal affairs, or to the FBI. But for some reason, he did agree to talk to me, and later, he told me he agreed to give a deposition in the family’s lawsuit. He tells me, at first he couldn’t believe that Green and Taylor had talked to Steele, until his defense attorney showed him the videos Steele had made of his interviews with them — videos we still hadn’t been able to see.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I actually watched them myself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, wow. Interesting. And did… What did… What did Taylor say in his video?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taylor said the same thing. He s- He said, uh, he said his, his life was in danger because he told them that the cops were involved. And like I said, a lot of stuff that they said wasn’t true. They added a lot more. I don’t know why. But there was some truth to it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Talking to Anthony Rodriguez was kind of surreal. I knew he’d committed a number of really terrible crimes. He and Taylor had even painted Aguilar’s blood across their faces. But the way he talked about killing Aguilar was totally casual. He said he did regret it, because if he hadn’t, he could be out right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As far as remorse, I, I really don’t feel it too much. I’ve always been like that, since I was a kid. I’ve never had those, those types of emotions. You know what I mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he says he didn’t murder Aguilar because he was a child molester or because Green told him to. The reason he gives, his motive for killing Aguilar, is based on something that from the outside, seems small.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, can I ask w-Why Aguilar? Like, I was, I saw in your letter you said he crossed your name out on the yard, but like what does that mean?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean literally just what it means, you know? Uh, I have a habit of, of… We go into the same cages all the time when we go to yard. They put us in dog cages. We, we call them dog cages.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you’re held in a restricted housing unit like B8, you do get to have time outside, but only in these solitary cages. So Rodriguez says he wrote his moniker, Kill-Kill, on the side of the cage, and Aguilar wrote his nickname, Raskal, over top of it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a habit of writing my name out in the cages, like with a pen, or a marker, or, or a crayon, or something, and that’s all he did. That, he just did that to me, and, and it’s, it’s a sign of big disrespect, so I did it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As for officer involvement, Rodriguez says part of what Green and Taylor told Steele is true. Officers did help them in important ways. He says they agreed not to double lock their cuffs and they agreed not to use the deadly Mini-14 rifle.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would you have been able to pull off the murder the way that it happened, you know, without any kind of assistance or complicity with the officers?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when it comes to the officers’ motive, Rodriguez says he’s in the dark.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Rodriguez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To be honest with you, they probably got their own reasons. Uh, I really don’t know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In court filings, CDCR officials have denied that officers in any way helped these men carry out a murder. And I want to acknowledge something here. Each of these men are unreliable narrators, and I’m only playing small clips of the many hours I spent on the phone talking to them, in which I went down numerous rabbit holes and found plenty of contradictions and outright lies. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there was something attractive about Rodriguez’s story. Unlike the story Green tells, it’s simple. There doesn’t need to be a mass conspiracy, just a couple officers who basically agreed to look the other way. Pieces of Taylor’s story also explained a few things, the funky timeline, and he proposed a motive that makes sense for officers, that they agreed to help in part because one of their own was assaulted, and because it’s just practical. If a murder is going to happen, they wanna make sure no officers get injured in the process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um- \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Phone static]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you go to the deposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just… Yes, ma’am. I just came back right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How was it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And um… Probably it was like four hours, five hours.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In September 2023, Dion Green told his story again, over Zoom, to the attorney for the officers and Claudia Bohorquez, Ma Rosario’s lawyer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when we were last talking, you said you were n- not sure if you wanted to do it or not, that you were nervous about it. Um, what made the difference for you today?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just woke up saying like, I, I got to do right. That’s all.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green says in the deposition, he repeated what he’d told Steele on the recorded video tapes about the practice run, the black boxes, and how they simply could not have pulled off the homicide without the help of officers. And he says he told Claudia that he also had a message for Aguilar’s family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I told her, I said, “Ms. Claudia, I did that. And that was a bad call. And it’s killing me. I’m sorry. I am so sorry.” I said, “I, I’m hurt by it. I’m just hurt. I’m hurt. That’s not cool.” But what’s my hurt to, compared to them? You know? This is all about them. And you know, I hate that Steele died, ma’am.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I hate he killed himself, but you know, that, that was like my, like a good friend of mine, man. It, it, it sucked. And he couldn’t take it. And I’m proud of what he did, though. I, I’m proud.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Green says making the choice to talk to Steele has also left him very isolated. Within days of making those recorded statements, that Green believed would be kept confidential, the word was out on the housing tier that he had talked, and he says the label of snitch has followed him. Taylor and Rodriguez have both distanced themselves from Green, and Green says officers have threatened him. When Steele died, he says he lost his one ally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listen, I don’t have anything. Look, all I have is you. Look, I’m already wanted. They gonna kill me. CDC officers is gonna kill me. When you put it on, on blast, everything, you know? It’s gonna be ugly. It’s gonna be ugly. But I want the podcast to start, because I’m gonna sit back and I’m gonna do roll call. I’m gonna do role call on, on all of them, on all CDC officers. I’m doing roll call, period. The podcast is coming out. I’m telling everybody, yes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right. Well, it’s not coming out for a while yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Yeah. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also, just like, you know, in terms of my, you know, my job and my motivations, like I am, I’m here, I’m trying to get to the truth. I’m trying to, like, f- understand what happened, and like why, why Steele, um, killed himself. So it just, it makes me nervous when you say, uh, uh, say all you have is me, ’cause like, I am not, like, you know, on your side. Like, I am not your advocate. Um, so I just wanna… I wanna be clear about that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, it’s understandable. You know, I, I know that. You’re not on my side. You know what I’m saying? I know that. You got a job to do. You simply care about the job. All you care about is the facts of this, so you can… That’s your job. You don’t really care about me. You don’t care about none of that. I understand that. I am aware of that. This is the job. Nobody can tell you the truth of what took place in B8 on 12/12, except me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The officers’ involvement and everything.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s all I’m telling you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I, I, I, I know what it, when, when it all comes…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Automated voice:\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This call and/or telephone number will be monitored and recorded.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, I am not mixing up words or l- making up feelings or… No, I, I know what your job is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not naïve. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m very cut and dry, and know what’s what.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s where we left it that day. I thank him for his time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Talk to you soon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye, Dion. Stay well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dion Green is a compelling person. In the hours we’ve spent on the phone, it’s been hard not to get sucked into his story, to maintain the distance to be able to evaluate whether he’s telling the truth or not. Once again, as I’ve been talking to him, I’ve been holding Steele in my mind, wishing I could talk to him and find out what he made of this guy, and what Green made of Steele. If Green recognized a man in the midst of a crisis of faith, and somehow played on it. As we neared our publication date, I knew I needed to ask Green about the biggest hole in his story: the timeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If the assault was the motive for the officers, how come all these plans were already in place to take out Aguilar?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, the p- Okay, no, not, not before, not before the assault on the police. No.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reports I’ve been able to get it says that Aguilar attacked somebody on December 6th, but the-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… practice run video was December 5th, so the practice run was the day before Aguilar assaulted an officer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, the practice run happened on the, on the 7th, 9, 10, 11, 12, 7th, 8th 9, 10, 11, 12… The practice run happened on the 7th. Are you sure it was the… It, it was-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you can hear, Green wasn’t sure of the date. He said people don’t keep track of dates in prison. But he acknowledged that it didn’t make sense for the assault — the supposed motive — to come after the practice run. But he didn’t back off his story, that officers were motivated by Aguilar’s assault on a guard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think my timeline is off. I could have swore he, he assaulted, assaulted staff earlier that month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Green knew there had been that incident in the shower, and thought it must have happened earlier than the report said. To be honest, this sounded pretty implausible. And then about a week-and-a-half after this conversation, I got a call in December 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He had an incident prior to that, that they didn’t write him up, because he had came from yard, and he had headbutted one of them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This man didn’t want us to use his name, because he’s afraid of being labeled a snitch, but he said we could use his voice. He tells me that this incident where Aguilar headbutted an officer happened before the time he kicked the officer in the shower, which put it before the practice run. I’d actually reached out to him months earlier, because I’d heard he was a witness to the murder, but he said he’d only just now gotten my message. He and Aguilar were housed near each other when that earlier assault happened. He says Aguilar was angry because something was going on with his daughter and he ran out of phone time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they wouldn’t give him another phone call, and he had headbutted them coming back from yard. And they beat him up, and they, they didn’t write him up because they had busted his nose.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they busted his nose. Why wouldn’t they write him up for that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because they now used excessive force, and it happened, and it, and it happened where he was… Like, I guess he wasn’t resisting no more. I guess when he headbutted one of them, he proned out on the ground.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This man says that’s when a different officer kicked him in the face. That’s a policy violation, so he says officers didn’t document it. He tells me he remembers the nurse who came to Aguilar’s cell door. This man’s story about this incident is full of details, the names of the involved officers, the name of the nurse, the type of form that she filled out. I’m not including all those details here because I haven’t been able to find any other evidence to confirm that this incident happened. I did reach out to the nurse, but she said she couldn’t talk to me about anything related to CDCR. CDCR said there was no injury form for Aguilar. But all these details are things that investigators with access to the prison should be able to corroborate or disprove.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you ever talk to the FBI?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, not to the actual FBI, but to Internal Affairs, to the DA, and to the ISU.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says they called him in for an interview because he’d sent a letter to the district attorney saying Aguilar’s murder had been a setup.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I sent the letter the same week of the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Other sources confirmed the existence of this man’s letter. He says Steele was in the room with prison officials and the district attorney’s office was on speakerphone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They asked me, did I have any information, such as, “How did I know that it was a setup?” And I told them because they told him that they had to search his cell, and he told them that he didn’t want to come out the cell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, Aguilar had refused to come out to the day room, he says, because he was scared of being attacked, and that the officers made him come out anyway. In that letter, this man says he also told the DA that there was a practice run, where Taylor got out of his cuffs and ran around the day room, and that it was caught on surveillance cameras. He says this initial interview with the DA and prison officials happened within weeks of the murder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. All right. I appreciate your time. Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anonymous:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re welcome. You have a good day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You too. Bye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If true, this revelation was pretty incredible. Not only did this man share details of an earlier assault that could bolster Green’s story of staff retaliation, but he was also saying that prison officials knew there were allegations that this murder was a setup within weeks of the homicide. Yet, it does not appear that any officers were reassigned or that a meaningful investigation was launched until months later, after Steele started turning over stones. But what had started Steele going down that path, and when did he begin to feel that his efforts were being ignored? This is where we were at when this podcast launched in early February. Those questions kind of seemed unanswerable. And then, a huge bombshell landed in our laps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Ambient sound – driving] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here we are, Julie and I, in the car driving up towards Sacramento again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To see evidence that we have been wanting to see and trying to see for nearly two years now. And-\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A secret source had reached out. And we were going to get to see the videos of the practice run and the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar for ourselves.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re going to see it finally.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we don’t know quite what the circumstances will be, if we’ll be able to take the recordings and use them, or if we just will have an opportunity to view them. Um, but this is, is really a significant breakthrough, and it is coming week two of launch, so we\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [laughs] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">we have two episodes out already. We are supposed to be, uh, wrapping everything up, and this is, this is really a kind of game-changing, Earth-shattering development.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Theme music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But we still didn’t know — how would this change our understanding of these competing stories and our understanding of Kevin Steele? It turns out there were a lot of materials to go through, so bear with us, ’cause we need some time to make sense of them. The next episode in this series will be coming out on April 2nd, when you’ll finally get to hear the testimony that launched Steele’s investigation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Cody Taylor:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what? Initially, hey, uh, I didn’t say shit, man. I didn’t say shit to nobody, and, and I’m s- if anything, I should be treated like a king for me remaining silent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The caliber of man of who I am, and my two brothers, and the hits that we have put down-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are the number one security threat in B8. To not secure us-\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sgt. Kevin Steele:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">… is a problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Credits music]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re listening to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Season 2: New Folsom, from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. This series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis, and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauleón. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa. Sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts, and she executive produced the series. Meticulous fact-checking by Mark Betancourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair, David Barstow, provided valuable support for the whole series. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR, and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional music from APM Music and Audio Network. Funding for \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Our Watch\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And, thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor, Jr., Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News, and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino Rodriguez Sr. is on the treadmill one morning when he gets a call—Sgt. Kevin Steele is dead. Val Sr. has lost not only his friend, but his partner in their shared quest to find the truth. A meeting with the FBI provides few answers, even as new questions arise about why a second whistleblower from New Folsom has lost his life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7235055677\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode contains references to a drug overdose and a description of a suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Early on the morning of August 20th, 2021, Val Rodriguez Sr. got a text from Sergeant Kevin Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He, he text me in the morning, says, “Good morning, Val. Happy Friday. Yep. Uh, we made it through another week.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He sent Val Sr. a funny TikTok video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TikTok Video:\u003c/b> I hope I can make it through this book. Okay. [laughs].\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And wrote…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> “God Bless, I think of you often, and I am always grateful for your friendship. Know this, exclamation point.” And he always finished it with Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It was 8:00 AM in Missouri where Steele had now been living for about eight months. They talked on the phone for a bit, texted a few more times, and then later that day-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> It was about six hours later, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Steele texted again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> So I called him right away. He was very mad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Steele was upset because he’d just gotten off the phone with a special agent from the Office of Internal Affairs. The guy wanted to schedule an interview with him about the events surrounding the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar, what Steele had called the B8 homicide, where Aguilar, while shackled to a chair in the day room, was stabbed 55 times by two incarcerated men who’d slipped their cuffs in view of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He was mad because whoever the agent was, says, come on, we have to hurry up and do this. It’s been almost a year. We gotta wrap this up. And he’s, he, he was pissed about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It had been 20 months since Aguilar was killed, and over a year since Steele passed on evidence that officers might be involved, we know he’d found the video of a practice run and heard that officers had spread a rumor that Aguilar was a child molester. Finally, there’d been a nearly identical attempted hit by the same incarcerated people two months earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He says, I’ve already had interviews with them, Val. They know everything. They’re asking me the same questions. They’ve got everything. What do they need to interview me for? Why are they just wrapping this up all of a sudden, they’re in a hurry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The interview was scheduled for the following week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> And that was his last call before mine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The next morning, Val Sr. says he was on the treadmill when he got another call, it was Steele’s wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Lili contacted me and she just said, “Kevin took his life last night.” And, um, I just began to sob a little bit. You know, just, it’s hard to, uh, accept that news over, over the phone. You know, you, I was confused and I just told her, “he was my friend.” And she goes, “I know.” And man, it felt like somebody hit me with something across my face. It was just the weirdest, it was a different feeling than when my son passed away. Like I was hit, hit with something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In the span of just 10 months, Val Sr. was facing another loss that he struggled to make sense of. Steele, whose strength had helped Val Sr. bear the death of his son and galvanized his search for justice, seemingly could no longer shoulder the burden of their shared mission. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003ci>On Our Watch\u003c/i>, Season Two: New Folsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After everything he’d seen and everything they’d been through, Val Sr. couldn’t believe that Steele had taken his own life. And it wasn’t just Val Sr. So many people we spoke to for this story, even correctional officers who were close to Steele also couldn’t believe it. When we started investigating this story, we also weren’t sure what was true about Steele’s death. It seemed too coincidental, too extraordinary that within less than a year, a second officer from New Folsom Prison had died so unexpectedly after reporting misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[SFX – phone ringing]\u003c/i> So we started making some calls. I called the sheriff’s office in Miller County, Missouri, where Steele had died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hi, Corporal Scott. This is Sukey Lewis…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hi Carla. I sent a sunshine request for some incident reports, 911 calls, and dispatch-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My co-reporter, Julie, reached out to the county coroner, the person who’d made the determination about cause of death, and he did email her back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> “I’ll get the report together and send you the information that I have. An autopsy was not done due to this case being an obvious suicide.” I guess where he’s sitting maybe just seems like an obvious suicide. But, um, from Val’s perspective, it was like, but there was all this context. He felt his life was threatened, but I don’t know that the coroner in Miller County knew that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> So we should get the coroner stuff at least next week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yeah. That should be interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I also reached out to the people closest to Kevin Steele, to his wife and daughter. Over email, I told them a little bit about the project we were working on, about the many people we’d spoken to who’d shared how Steele had touched their lives. And I asked if they’d be willing to talk to us. I hoped they could help us understand who Kevin Steele was outside of the prison walls, and how those closest to him were making sense of this terrible loss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We did know that in the months leading up to his death, as Steele tried to find a job in Missouri, he’d also been working on a book. He’d told Val Sr. about it, but hadn’t given him a copy yet. Steele told his friend, once the book was finished, the two of them would go on a book tour, promote the book, and expose the Department of Corrections at the same time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> His last words to me before he died was, “You know, be ready to sell your business. We’re gonna travel with this book between us, Val, and you’re gonna know the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> More than anything, this is what Val Sr. wanted—to find out the truth about his son, but he stopped short of asking Steele exactly what he meant by the truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He said it would be difficult, but you’re gonna know. I says, “Okay, Kevin, whatever you need me to do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. tells Julie he hasn’t read Steele’s book, but he does know the title.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> How to Kill a Cop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> That’s the name of his book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> I’m assuming it would be like, “This is how you demoralize a cop. This is how you-”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> This is the pattern. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> This is the pattern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The volume and content of Steele’s email exchanges with Val Sr. reveal his disillusionment with the system he’d been a part of for so long. Val Sr. has shared more than 200 emails between Steele and him, in which you can see every few days or weeks, Steele would email Val Sr. a lawsuit, a snippet of CDCR policy, or a link to an article, all pieces of this emerging pattern. In February, Steele emailed Val Sr. a link to a video of then Secretary of Corrections, Ralph Diaz, addressing the 2020 graduating class of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ralph Diaz:\u003c/b> We have to hold each other accountable. We have to speak up and say when things are being done that aren’t right. When you see your partner going sideways, it’s your job to demand that they get back on track. Save them, save yourself, and save this badge that you all represent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In March, Steele sent an email with a subject line, “I told the truth.” It was a link to an old Buzzfeed article about a correctional officer at High Desert State Prison in Northern California who had reported his fellow guards for misconduct, including letting contraband into the prison and abusing incarcerated people. The article says his fellow officers turned on him. He was found dead by apparent suicide in 2011. Among some notes with messages for his family was one that read, “I told the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In April, Steele sent Val Sr. another article about a correctional officer in Oregon who was suing over a culture of silence enforced through violence. In June, he sent a YouTube link to a podcast called The Prison Post, featuring a former ISU agent at Salinas Valley State Prison, who turned whistleblower about 20 years earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Podcast Host:\u003c/b> We got our guest, uh, DJ Vodicka. He’s the largest whistleblower in CDCR history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> On the podcast video, the former officer, Vodicka, spoke about his experiences testifying against a corrupt and abusive gang that officers had formed called The Green Wall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DJ Vodicka:\u003c/b> I testified for two hours on an open stand. I mean it, nobody knew about the Green Wall. The senators in the stand, my story hit the AP Associated Press, and shortly after that, I had to go off the grid into hiding for six months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In response, Val Sr. emailed Steele that he’d like to do a podcast. Steele replied, “Me too, I can’t wait to do it together. You and I will make history. Watch. I am with you always. Steele.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Kevin wanted to keep his story alive. The story, the big story, which I don’t know what it, what it is. The truth?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> 11 days after he died, Val Sr. sent a text message to his friend’s phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> “Hey buddy, I know this is crazy. I did the same thing when my son died in some way, I know you can see this message. I’m praying for your peace and the blessed travel. You’re no longer worried about anything. I’m going to do my best alone. I miss you, love you, and one day will see you and my son.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Somber music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. would have to look for the truth, whatever that was on his own. And now he added his questions about Steele’s death to the snarl of loose ends left behind by his son, Valentino’s. What were those repeated calls his son had made on the last day of his life—to the guy from the neighborhood, who was a source for pain pills? What was in the black balloon that Mimy had found ripping up the carpets in their house that had looked like drugs from inside the prison? What had Valentino known about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar? And why didn’t the West Sacramento police seem interested in answering these questions?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All this time ever, since Val Sr. had that conversation with the police chief shortly after his son died, and heard those words, “They are not looking on the streets.” Val Sr. had believed that the FBI and or the prison’s Office of Internal Affairs might still be carrying out some kind of investigation into Valentino’s death—looking inside the prison for the source of the fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in early 2022, about four or five months after Steele’s death and over a year after Valentino’s, it seemed like he might finally get some answers. The FBI set up a meeting with Val Sr. and his wife Erma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That day they pulled up outside the FBI field office in Roseville, near Sacramento, a three story building with large glass windows and a fenced perimeter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They were very, um, particular about searching me and making sure I left my phone in a car, all that stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> They were shown into a large conference room with glass walls and sat down at a long conference table with a female FBI agent and special agent Justin Bolden of CDCR’s Office of Internal Affairs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They spend a lot of time when you’re in a meeting like that observing you. So I was observing them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. says a senior FBI official came in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He introduced himself to me, and it’s nice to meet you. I hope we can answer any of your questions, but we can’t answer everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Then the official left the room. Erma says to her, it seemed like the agents had more questions than answers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> They kind of wanted to mainly knew what Valentino uncovered or heard or was told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> About, like the Aguilar homicide or…?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> More, more about Kevin, I think. Like he would just ask him what he knew about that. I don’t know if he was maybe trying to see how much he knew or how much Kevin told him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Fishing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> They didn’t seem really warm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We called special agent Bolden, but he said he can’t comment on investigations. At this point, two officers had already gotten fired over their treatment of Valentino, but they still had an appeal pending before the State Personnel board, which is basically the HR department for the state. In the meeting, Val Sr. says he felt like a broken record going over his usual list of questions and suspicions. He says Bolden listened to him, but his response was final.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They flat out told me they’re not, we’re not investigating your son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In a later email, the special agent clarified if there was any investigation to be done into Valentino’s death, that would’ve been the police’s job. The FBI told us they could not comment. After all this time, Val Sr. finally understood that nobody was looking into his son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Describe how you felt walking outta that meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Disappointed, dissatisfied, victimized, helpless, hopeless. I wasn’t sad or feeling bad. I just like, that was what I thought was my last stand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And without his partner Steele, his own investigation also ground to a halt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I hate to say I gave up, but I got to the point to, well, let me just wait and see and then time passes and I’m waiting. And then Julie called me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Julie made contact and we began this project trying to see if we’d be able to answer Val Sr’s questions and our own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> So that’s why we’re sitting down here right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Ad break]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It was more than a year into our investigation, in October of 2023, that the results came back from the forensic drug testing company. We’d shipped off a package to the company months earlier with the pills and the black bindle or balloon that looked so much like drugs seized from the prison. The results of their analysis could tell us if any of these items, and especially the balloon, was a match to the fentanyl and Valentino system when he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If they did, it wouldn’t prove anything conclusively, but it felt like something we couldn’t ignore. And who knows, it could support Val Sr’s theory that someone from New Folsom might have supplied Valentino with the drug. So Julie and I jumped on Zoom to read through the results of the test together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – Zoom chime]\u003c/i> Did you show the email?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I am just sending it to you now. I have not opened it yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It wasn’t what we expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> So this is the little capsule that had the brownish, it looked like it could be heroin powder, but it is not. It is kratom. Kratom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Driving music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We found out it’s actually pronounced kratom. It’s an herbal substance that can produce opioid-like effects, but it’s not illegal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Circular white tablet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The tablet contains anti-nausea medication, and the other capsule doesn’t test positive for anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> No drugs detected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Black balloon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> One item. The black balloon. What? Oh, cocaine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> So the bindle is cocaine. It is not opioids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay. Yeah, Val’s just texting right now. “I sent you, the results to you. None of the tests for fentanyl, none of these were in his system.” Do you wanna call Val and see what he makes of it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – phone ringing] \u003c/i>Hello?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Yeah, I’m here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Well-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah. So what do you make of- make of the results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I was kicking that around in my head. I don’t know. I don’t know if it really has anything to do with the story. Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We talked through the results for a bit and Val Sr. goes over other suspicions that he still has about where the fentanyl came from and more broadly, who is to blame for his son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> How important is it to you that there is a direct line between someone giving him the fentanyl and him using it versus the, I think the very clear pattern that, that we \u003ci>can\u003c/i> show, which is that the stress of this job and the abuse that he suffered were factors on that day that kind of contributed to it. Even if we can’t put, you know, those drugs in somebody’s hand handing it to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> That’s a really hard question to answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah, I know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I’ve thought about that without even asking me that, that exact same thing. Sometimes I can be really honest with myself and sometimes I don’t know what honest is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> What do you mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Well, for example, the, in that, in that question you asked me in there is a hidden, uh, question, which is, well, did my son take this on his own? And would he be alive if he hadn’t? And yes, I gotta be honest. Yeah. Did he have an addiction? Yes, he did. If he had not had that addiction, would he still be alive? Yes. Yes, he would. Uh, on the other hand, if they had treated him the way they were supposed to treat him at that prison, like a, like an employee with integrity and they honored integrity, like, like they say they do, uh, on his graduation, what he’s trained for, then yeah, he’d still be alive, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Uh, so did the- the job contribute to his death? Yes. Was it intentional? Uh, well that’s, that’s why the source of the fentanyl has always been really important to me. Been really important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Ever since Valentino’s death, his father has been seeking closure—from the police, from the FBI, from us, and even from Steele. It’s hard to know if getting these items tested has gotten him any closer to that goal. On the one hand, the results don’t tell us that much, but on the other, the bindle is also clearly not what he thought it might be: evidence to support his theory that someone from the prison might have sent fentanyl to kill his son. But Val Sr. says he still believes in that theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I think it was intentional. Well, there’s, there’s nothing that has led me not to think that. Nothing. Everything I have found, it was intentional to get rid of him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I tell him, while this test kind of feels like a dead end, it does answer the question of what was in the bindle. And it frees us up to try to answer some of his other questions. We probably won’t be able to answer all of them, but we will try our best to answer most of them and then also kind of ask the bigger question behind those questions, which is: why are we the ones who are having to ask them? You know, why, why is this investigation not being done by the police?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Yeah. Why does Anderson get a promotion?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. brings it back to the prison. How come Sergeant David Anderson, Valentino’s direct boss, who Valentino says had threatened him and who hadn’t put a stop to the abuse from his other colleagues as required by agency policy, was not fired or removed as a supervisor? While we don’t know exactly what CDCR did to investigate or discipline Anderson, we do know that as of last year, he still worked at New Folsom and had even been promoted to a Lieutenant. Anderson did not respond to our calls requesting comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> All right, girls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> All right. Appreciate you, Val. Have a good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Okay, you too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Thanks. All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Give our best to Erma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Okay, I will. Good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Even though the results from the forensic company felt unsatisfactory, they did free us up to move forward with some interviews we’d had on hold. As I told Val Sr. in that call, we had a lot of questions for the West Sacramento police chief. What had they done to investigate and could they have done more to find the source of the fentanyl? So in late October, Julie drove to the West Sacramento Police Department to put these questions to Chief Robert Strange.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Hello. You must be Chief Strange.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> How are you doing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Good. How are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Nice to meet you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The Chief brings Julie through the lobby, decked out in Halloween decorations and into his office on the walls. He’s got law enforcement mementos and baseball memorabilia. He tells Julie, he first spoke to Val Sr. almost exactly three years ago, right after Valentino’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Honestly, at first I thought, well, this is a man going through the loss of his son, trying to find an explanation. And I thought I just wanted to do my best to console him. But the longer things went on, and maybe a year later I started seeing, um, just news reports about what had been happening at Folsom Prison. I started putting two and two together realizing that there may have been at least some, some truth to at least the concerns he had about the work unit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He’s referring to the ISU squad. Now, it says something about the relationship between Chief Strange and Val Sr. that the Chief is even willing to talk to us. In my experience, a lot of the time, police chiefs refuse to address specific cases. They worry about liability issues. And Strange tells Julie that he only agreed to the interview at all after clearing it with Val Sr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I said, “Hey, like I got this inquiry. I wanna make sure that you’re okay with this.” ‘Cause it’s one of those things where I, I know I don’t have, I don’t have answers he wants to hear, that’s for sure. Um, but I also don’t wanna, I don’t want to get sideways with him either, and I understand what he’s trying to do. So, I mean, frankly, if he said, no, don’t talk to ‘em, I probably would’ve gone a different direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> As you can hear, their relationship is complicated. Val Sr. begged the Chief to do more to treat this case like it was his son on the bathroom floor. The Chief, while sympathetic, says he simply didn’t have the answers Val Sr. was looking for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I’m not gonna be able to deliver, um, a criminal investigation outcome that says that somebody is responsible for your son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But the Chief listens to Julie as she walks him through the various leads that Val Sr. says were never followed up on—like the Black Bindle. Why didn’t the police collect it from Val Sr.? The Chief says he does remember some conversation about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I honestly don’t know what ultimately happened. I also would say I, I don’t know what it was gonna tell us, frankly. Uh, and that’s just the unfortunate reality is there wasn’t, it was gonna tell us that it was maybe drugs, right? Ultimately that’s what would’ve been tested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Um, but I don’t think it would tell us more than a toxicology probably did or, or anything along those lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And Julie also asks the Chief about perhaps the most tangible lead in Val Sr’s cache of evidence: the cell provider call log from Valentino’s last days that shows this striking pattern of calls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Like this is the day- days leading up to his death. He called this person this many times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The log lists six short calls that Valentino made on the day he died, and eight calls the day before, all to the same number. The number of the guy who lived in the neighborhood and was a known source for pain pills. And Julie shares what we’d discovered: none of those calls showed up on Valentino’s actual phone or on the hard drive we’d been given by Val Sr. They only appeared on this physical call log—the bill from his provider, which tracks all connections. This means someone, maybe Valentino, deleted all his calls to the neighborhood guy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> These phone calls were deleted from his phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Oh, really?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> If there were any text messages between the two men, they were also missing from the phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I was not aware of this at all. And specifically what you’re showing me here with the- both the number of calls and the approximate nature of these calls to his death… it’s pretty interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Initially, the man we’re calling “the guy from the neighborhood” didn’t agree to talk to us, but a few weeks after Julie spoke to the Chief, she went by his house. It felt important to get his side of things. He didn’t agree to a recorded interview, but he did speak with her. He denied ever selling Valentino drugs. He said he did not see him the day that he died and had no involvement in his death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie wanted to ask the Chief about this to figure out if the police could have done more to investigate at the time. But while the Chief says the pattern of calls is interesting, the case is still closed for now, and it’s not clear what evidence would be enough to reopen it. The Chief tells us he did assign a detective to look over the case again in early 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I really, truly did not think that it would change anything, but at least out of an act of compassion, I just thought, let’s have him sit down with Val, talk through this again and see if there’s anything that maybe I haven’t seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> This detective spoke to Val Sr. and talked to Mimy, but did not find evidence of foul play, or anything that changed the department’s original assessment of the case. Just like I don’t think anything we’ve shown the Chief has changed that assessment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Quite simply, there just wasn’t evidence for us to see it as more than a self-inflicted overdose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And this is at the heart of the conflict between these two men. For Val Sr. his son’s death has always been a criminal matter. He cannot look away from the stunning fact pattern, the threats on his son’s phone, the timing of his death, just days after reporting misconduct to the warden. But even beyond that, the lethal drug that killed his son had to come from somewhere. And Val Sr. can’t understand why the police didn’t aggressively try to find out where.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Chief Strange, this case has always been a tragic accident. And none of the evidence at the scene and none of the evidence Val has uncovered, has changed this fundamental point of view. The department’s policy at the time was that they simply did not deeply investigate these kinds of cases. But the Chief says that policy is one big thing that Valentino’s death has changed. He says, based on that case, the department now does things differently when someone dies by fentanyl in the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> It did change things. I- I think we would’ve changed anyway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> But I don’t know that we would’ve changed as soon as I got back from talking to Val Sr. one day, ’cause that’s how it went down. I came back, I talked to my special investigations unit sergeant and I said, “Oh wait, I think we need to change what we’re doing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Because as we mentioned earlier, Valentino’s death in 2020 was part of a wave of fentanyl deaths. And even though this is cold comfort to Val Sr. If Valentino died today, the Chief says they’d have their special investigations unit involved at the scene of his death to look for evidence that might help them trace the source of the drugs. We don’t know what would’ve happened if this new policy had already been in place at the time. It still may not have resulted in any criminal charges, and there’s a lot of debate about whether policies that further criminalize drug sales are effective in addressing the opioid crisis. But it’s also possible that a more rigorous look at all the evidence right from the beginning, might have been able to give Val Sr. the one thing he still looking for, answers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To this day, Val Sr. still cannot accept why the Chief didn’t do more at the time. There is one final thing that we learned from Chief Strange about what he did do in the wake of Valentino’s death. He says, after talking to Val Sr, he called someone at the Office of Internal Affairs at CDCR and was put in touch with special agent Chris McGraw, thinking maybe the prison would want to take possession of Valentino’s phone to investigate some of those allegations Val Sr. had told him about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Uh, Val Sr. was talking about his perception of there being threats and at least some, um, just to put it generally some treatment of his son as a whistleblower and, and in the sense of being treated completely improperly as a whistleblower.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Right. There was evidence on the phone of, of, word leaking out that he had met with the warden and he told on the team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Oh wow, okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> And those, and he became aware of that the night that he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Okay. Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But the Chief says, at the time when he talked to McGraw, it didn’t sound like any internal investigation was going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> It didn’t sound like it was something that, so to speak, jumped off the page to him… that we had Val’s- Val Rodriguez Jr’s phone. Like that was an opportunity. And so, uh, in that sense, I didn’t perceive a level of opportunity or excitement around that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We reached out to McGraw, but he didn’t respond to our emails requesting comment. The police department released the phone back to the family. But Julie tells the Chief that McGraw did eventually get Valentino’s phone from Val Sr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Learning of that today is heartening for me to know that at least there’s a likelihood that a fuller picture of the story of what was happening with Val Jr. leading up to his death, is hopefully, um, at least a little bit more colored in by the contents of that phone. Even if the realities of what is learned initially at least is more painful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> As we now know what the department discovered on that phone—the slurs and harassing messages—resulted in two officers getting fired and lesser discipline for a handful of other officers. Four of them are still appealing that discipline. And as far as we can tell, the higher ups avoided scrutiny altogether. We wanted to know why. Chief Strange says he also doesn’t know if CDCR and the FBI are done investigating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> So it’ll be interesting to see if there’s more still going on in the investigative world and prosecutorial world when it comes to everything surrounding what was happening at that prison during that period of time. Thus far, it’s fairly alarming to put it very mildly. And anytime that anyone anywhere that’s wearing a badge, not only doesn’t take their oath seriously, but downright dishonors it—it absolutely affects all of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Ad break]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauleón:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – Zoom chime] \u003c/i>Who wants to start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In early 2023 I got on a Zoom with Julie and our editor, Victoria Mauleón, to give them a big update.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, so I talked, I called Michael Steele, Kevin Steele’s brother. We had that initial conversation. He said he would talk, but then was like, I can’t right now…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Val Sr. had shared a lot with us about who Steele was to him, but they had only really become close in the final year of Kevin’s life. We hoped someone in his family could give us a deeper understanding of this man who was so central to our story. His daughter had responded to my email saying she wasn’t able to participate, and Lili, Steele’s widow, also didn’t want to do a recorded interview with us. But finally, I had connected with someone who’d known him longer than almost anybody: his younger brother, Michael.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He said that he had talked to Lili and that she was, um, she was positive about him participating. She was supportive of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Michael said he did have some reservations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His big question for me was, which side of the blue line are you on? And I said, you know, “Do I have to pick a side? Um, you know, I’m on the side of transparency and accountability.” \u003ci>[laughs]\u003c/i> Um, but he was like, you know, Kevin loved his job and he committed himself to it. Um, and he committed himself to participating in law enforcement. And, and Michael doesn’t wanna see that torn down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\nUm, he obviously feels really complicated about it ’cause he also called him “a victim of the corruption in CDCR.” You know, I also said at one point, like, “This work isn’t about trying to tear things down. It’s about trying to, like, shine a light to expose problems or fix things.” And I used that word “fix,” and he was like, “Nothing is gonna be fixed for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In July of 2023, after months of calls and texts, Mike agreed to meet me in person…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I’m Mike Steele, brother of Kevin Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> …At the place where he spends the most time thinking about his brother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> For the recording, why don’t you just say where we are. So- to make sense of the noises people will be hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> We’re on my boat at the Marriott Marina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> In San Diego.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> In San Diego.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And you said-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Which is my happy place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike’s long-term girlfriend, Andrea, is here with him for support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kind of energy did he bring to life?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Intensity-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> … in everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike’s got those same startling blue eyes that his brother had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> The only difference between him and I that he was mad about is he didn’t have any hair and I did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> (laughs).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> And he started losing his hair really early, like in his 20s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> They have a lot of other similarities too. They both went into the military. Kevin chose the Air Force and Mike went into the Marines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> My dad was Navy. Uncles were Navy. You know, we always have had, uh, a very clear love of our country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike tells me after his brother’s service as a young man, he later joined the reserves and was twice deployed to Iraq.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> This roadside bomb shit all, you know, like, um, a lot of intensity. There was so many of his, um, comrades that didn’t come home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mmmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we sit on his boat in the San Diego Marina rain pats lightly on the plastic curtains. Mike’s eyes filled with tears and they run down his face.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He loved deep. And I mean, I, you know, like I said, my whole life, I just wanted him to be proud of me. And my dad, obviously. But, um, his opinion of me was more important than anybody else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Driving music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Kevin started working for the Department of Corrections in 2001, and after seven years at San Quentin, he was transferred to New Folsom Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> If he was supposed to be there at 5:00. He was there at 4:00, probably. You know, we both had the same work ethic. And he said, nobody fucking works harder than cast Steele. Like he fucking never slept.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> When did he sleep?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Like he was a machine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he became an investigator, he was relentless.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He didn’t quit until he got to the bottom of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But Mike says his role in the investigative services unit sometimes put him at odds with other officers. Now it was his job to find out the truth, even if that meant uncovering what some of his fellow officers were doing to the people in their custody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He felt like he had to protect those people from, um, I mean, I’m just being completely honest that I struggled with him having that task of having to turn on his own people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> If it were him in that position, Mike says he’d probably side with the brotherhood of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Did you ever ask him about it or say like, why are you-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> … sympathetic?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> What would he say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> What’s right is right. I mean, in those words exactly what’s right is right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But not everyone he worked with lived up to that code. And it bothered him. It bothered him to the point where Kevin started writing that memo to the warden at New Folsom, and ultimately making his plans to leave the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I mean, he lined everything up to where he was gonna drop the bomb and then, you know, ride off into the sunset and where all of his time lined up for retirement and just the who- everything was calculated for him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike says, even after his brother left, every conversation turned back to New Folsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Did he talk to you about the, what he called the B8 homicide, which was the one that he believed officers had set up?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah, he did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I said, as difficult as it is, you just gotta, you did what you were supposed to do, you did what you were paid to do. You gave the fucking evidence, proof, everything that you were supposed to do, you did. Let it fucking go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But he couldn’t, he was still consumed. Mike says he could feel something was wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I don’t know if you are comfortable talking at all about his drinking on the record, but I also just wondered how much you feel like that played a role?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Um, hmm. It was a Friday\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> At one point Mike had told me that Kevin had been drinking more heavily in Missouri, and so he and Lili made a deal: they’d only drink on the weekends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I don’t think it weakened him. I’m certain that it didn’t help, but I don’t know that it, um… I don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But he says drinking didn’t change who Kevin was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, so I was just gonna ask if he talked to you at all about his safety concerns and how much that played a role in deciding to leave California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Um, yeah, there was definitely issues and, um, God, he had guns. Boy a fucking ton of them. And, uh, he was, he was ready, you know, ’cause he did think that that was a possibility that they would, you know…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And did he ever have like any, you know, actual threats or any, you know, things that felt concrete?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I don’t, I wouldn’t say that I’m aware of any.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I’m not saying that that didn’t happen, but I, I’m not aware of any.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> But I mean, being in there, it, you know, you, you know what the system’s capable of, you know, just a matter of when it gets turned on you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm. Did you or anyone else, like in his close family, consider foul play or think that you know somebody?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I mean, initially that’s what we thought, you know, it was part of the discussion that- but I saw the video. It is what it is. All by himself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The video. This is the reason Mike is certain that Kevin wasn’t murdered. Just a warning, we’re gonna now walk through the details of his death. When we finally got the documents and dispatch tape in response to our records request to Miller County, we also got this video. It’s a 10 second recording captured by a camera attached to the outside of the shed. The time code on the video shows it was 5:23 in the afternoon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can see Kevin Steele come into the frame wearing an orange T-shirt and blue shorts. He has a length of rope in his hand. The other end of it is looped around his neck in a noose. He walks into the shed and he doesn’t come out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I saw the video of him going out to the shed, barn, whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike says, seeing the way his brother was walking…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> That was the fucking plan. And, um, it was just fucking following through with the plan. You know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Police reports show that Lili got home around 6:00 PM but couldn’t find Kevin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> It’s weird. He had taken chicken out to cook for dinner, out of the freezer, and he had opened the garage door for her ’cause he always would open the garage door when she was getting ready to get home. So she pulled up and the door’s open like everything’s normal. But she said when she went in the house, she thought it was strange—Kevin wasn’t in the house and the dogs were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Lili walked out to the shed and then called 911.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>911 Operator:\u003c/b> 911, location of your emergency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> She tells the dispatcher that she came home to find that her husband had hung himself. It’s really heartbreaking. So we’re not gonna play much of it. But at one point during the call, she does say something really important and she gave us permission to play this clip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>911 Operator:\u003c/b> Has he been sick?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lili Steele:\u003c/b> No. \u003ci>[Sobs]\u003c/i> He’s just been dealing with a lot of stuff from his… work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> His work. Just like Mimy Rodriguez, when she found Valentino on the bathroom floor, Steele’s wife felt his work at the prison had something to do with his death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>11 minutes into the call, first responders arrive. The records show Lili later found a word document written on her husband’s computer that she turned over to the sheriff’s office. The note is titled, My Thoughts. The police report notes that the final edit was made to this document that same afternoon, a couple of hours before he died. “Lili is my angel, my light, and my survivor. Lili always had my back and remained my cheerleader. I know what time it is. It is the ninth hour and no one is here. I was. CDCR killed me. I told the truth and shielded the truth. Truth requires no shield, no triple plated armament or Abrams tank. These barbarians killed Valentino and I.” Then he lists the names of senior officials at New Folsom and finishes, “Cowards and bandits.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Three days after Kevin’s death, the family all gathered around the flagpole at Kevin’s house in Missouri. Mike and his father lowered the flag from the flagpole and folded it while they played a recording of Kevin’s niece playing taps on the trumpet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I told you who he is. I told you he was. There’s no denying that they’re fucking responsible for what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I think on- when we were on the phone, on one of the times I talked to you, you called him a victim of the system. Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> 100 percent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> The system that he was trying to protect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> CDCR said the agency takes allegations of employee misconduct, “Very seriously.” And that they have a new process for reviewing complaints. But they did not answer our questions about how the department responded to Sergeant Kevin Steele’s efforts to address misconduct in the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He just didn’t understand. He felt betrayed that he had worked his butt off for that prison- for the state. Never so much as took a pencil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Do you ever feel angry with him for doing that? For leaving?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I feel angry with my son and yeah, I feel angry with him, of course. Yeah. I didn’t ask to go on this ride with him. He reached out to me. And we did a lot of stuff together and he made a lot of promises to me—to be my voice. And just kind of pulled me along and then I just, like, I got pulled to here and then… cast away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. Never wanted to fight this fight, but he feels like he has to keep pushing for his son and for his friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Coming up next time, we hear from a man who broke the rules of prison life to talk to Kevin Steele. Now he says his life is in danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> I’m just frustrated. It just, I was having a funny feeling that this is, this is going to go bad. This is not gonna go like it’s supposed to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And we dig deep into what really happened in the B8 day room, the day that Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> You know, and I’m not gonna sit here and judge whether, um, Aguilar was a good person or not, because it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t our job. Our job was to protect him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> You are listening to \u003ci>On Our Watch\u003c/i>, Season Two: New Folsom from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauleón. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa, sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of podcasts and she executive produced the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meticulous Fact Checking by Mark Bettencourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR, and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor, Jr. Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Valentino Rodriguez Sr. is on the treadmill one morning when he gets a call—Sgt. Kevin Steele is dead. Val Sr. has lost not only his friend, but his partner in their shared quest to find the truth. A meeting with the FBI provides few answers, even as new questions arise about why a second whistleblower from New Folsom has lost his life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7235055677\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Resources\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you are currently in crisis, you can dial 988 [U.S.] to reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">SAMHSA National Help Line\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://988lifeline.org/\">988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/help\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Helpline\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://www.hhs.gov/programs/prevention-and-wellness/mental-health-substance-abuse/index.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">US Health and Human Services\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003ca href=\"https://warmline.org/warmdir.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warmline Directory\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.berkeley.edu/programs/mj/investigative-reporting/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Investigative Reporting Program\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism was a key partner in making Season 2 of On Our Watch.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The records obtained for this project are part of the\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> California Reporting Project\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a coalition of news organizations in California. If you have tips or feedback about this series please reach out to us at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"mailto:onourwatch@kqed.org\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">onourwatch@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Producer:\u003c/b> Before we start, just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode contains references to a drug overdose and a description of a suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ve got links to resources in the episode description.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Early on the morning of August 20th, 2021, Val Rodriguez Sr. got a text from Sergeant Kevin Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He, he text me in the morning, says, “Good morning, Val. Happy Friday. Yep. Uh, we made it through another week.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He sent Val Sr. a funny TikTok video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TikTok Video:\u003c/b> I hope I can make it through this book. Okay. [laughs].\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And wrote…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> “God Bless, I think of you often, and I am always grateful for your friendship. Know this, exclamation point.” And he always finished it with Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It was 8:00 AM in Missouri where Steele had now been living for about eight months. They talked on the phone for a bit, texted a few more times, and then later that day-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> It was about six hours later, I think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Steele texted again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> So I called him right away. He was very mad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Steele was upset because he’d just gotten off the phone with a special agent from the Office of Internal Affairs. The guy wanted to schedule an interview with him about the events surrounding the homicide of Luis Giovanny Aguilar, what Steele had called the B8 homicide, where Aguilar, while shackled to a chair in the day room, was stabbed 55 times by two incarcerated men who’d slipped their cuffs in view of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He was mad because whoever the agent was, says, come on, we have to hurry up and do this. It’s been almost a year. We gotta wrap this up. And he’s, he, he was pissed about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It had been 20 months since Aguilar was killed, and over a year since Steele passed on evidence that officers might be involved, we know he’d found the video of a practice run and heard that officers had spread a rumor that Aguilar was a child molester. Finally, there’d been a nearly identical attempted hit by the same incarcerated people two months earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He says, I’ve already had interviews with them, Val. They know everything. They’re asking me the same questions. They’ve got everything. What do they need to interview me for? Why are they just wrapping this up all of a sudden, they’re in a hurry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The interview was scheduled for the following week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> And that was his last call before mine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The next morning, Val Sr. says he was on the treadmill when he got another call, it was Steele’s wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Lili contacted me and she just said, “Kevin took his life last night.” And, um, I just began to sob a little bit. You know, just, it’s hard to, uh, accept that news over, over the phone. You know, you, I was confused and I just told her, “he was my friend.” And she goes, “I know.” And man, it felt like somebody hit me with something across my face. It was just the weirdest, it was a different feeling than when my son passed away. Like I was hit, hit with something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In the span of just 10 months, Val Sr. was facing another loss that he struggled to make sense of. Steele, whose strength had helped Val Sr. bear the death of his son and galvanized his search for justice, seemingly could no longer shoulder the burden of their shared mission. I’m Sukey Lewis. This is \u003ci>On Our Watch\u003c/i>, Season Two: New Folsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After everything he’d seen and everything they’d been through, Val Sr. couldn’t believe that Steele had taken his own life. And it wasn’t just Val Sr. So many people we spoke to for this story, even correctional officers who were close to Steele also couldn’t believe it. When we started investigating this story, we also weren’t sure what was true about Steele’s death. It seemed too coincidental, too extraordinary that within less than a year, a second officer from New Folsom Prison had died so unexpectedly after reporting misconduct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[SFX – phone ringing]\u003c/i> So we started making some calls. I called the sheriff’s office in Miller County, Missouri, where Steele had died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hi, Corporal Scott. This is Sukey Lewis…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hi Carla. I sent a sunshine request for some incident reports, 911 calls, and dispatch-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My co-reporter, Julie, reached out to the county coroner, the person who’d made the determination about cause of death, and he did email her back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> “I’ll get the report together and send you the information that I have. An autopsy was not done due to this case being an obvious suicide.” I guess where he’s sitting maybe just seems like an obvious suicide. But, um, from Val’s perspective, it was like, but there was all this context. He felt his life was threatened, but I don’t know that the coroner in Miller County knew that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> So we should get the coroner stuff at least next week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yeah. That should be interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I also reached out to the people closest to Kevin Steele, to his wife and daughter. Over email, I told them a little bit about the project we were working on, about the many people we’d spoken to who’d shared how Steele had touched their lives. And I asked if they’d be willing to talk to us. I hoped they could help us understand who Kevin Steele was outside of the prison walls, and how those closest to him were making sense of this terrible loss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We did know that in the months leading up to his death, as Steele tried to find a job in Missouri, he’d also been working on a book. He’d told Val Sr. about it, but hadn’t given him a copy yet. Steele told his friend, once the book was finished, the two of them would go on a book tour, promote the book, and expose the Department of Corrections at the same time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> His last words to me before he died was, “You know, be ready to sell your business. We’re gonna travel with this book between us, Val, and you’re gonna know the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> More than anything, this is what Val Sr. wanted—to find out the truth about his son, but he stopped short of asking Steele exactly what he meant by the truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He said it would be difficult, but you’re gonna know. I says, “Okay, Kevin, whatever you need me to do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. tells Julie he hasn’t read Steele’s book, but he does know the title.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> How to Kill a Cop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> That’s the name of his book?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> I’m assuming it would be like, “This is how you demoralize a cop. This is how you-”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> This is the pattern. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> This is the pattern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The volume and content of Steele’s email exchanges with Val Sr. reveal his disillusionment with the system he’d been a part of for so long. Val Sr. has shared more than 200 emails between Steele and him, in which you can see every few days or weeks, Steele would email Val Sr. a lawsuit, a snippet of CDCR policy, or a link to an article, all pieces of this emerging pattern. In February, Steele emailed Val Sr. a link to a video of then Secretary of Corrections, Ralph Diaz, addressing the 2020 graduating class of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ralph Diaz:\u003c/b> We have to hold each other accountable. We have to speak up and say when things are being done that aren’t right. When you see your partner going sideways, it’s your job to demand that they get back on track. Save them, save yourself, and save this badge that you all represent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In March, Steele sent an email with a subject line, “I told the truth.” It was a link to an old Buzzfeed article about a correctional officer at High Desert State Prison in Northern California who had reported his fellow guards for misconduct, including letting contraband into the prison and abusing incarcerated people. The article says his fellow officers turned on him. He was found dead by apparent suicide in 2011. Among some notes with messages for his family was one that read, “I told the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In April, Steele sent Val Sr. another article about a correctional officer in Oregon who was suing over a culture of silence enforced through violence. In June, he sent a YouTube link to a podcast called The Prison Post, featuring a former ISU agent at Salinas Valley State Prison, who turned whistleblower about 20 years earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Podcast Host:\u003c/b> We got our guest, uh, DJ Vodicka. He’s the largest whistleblower in CDCR history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> On the podcast video, the former officer, Vodicka, spoke about his experiences testifying against a corrupt and abusive gang that officers had formed called The Green Wall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DJ Vodicka:\u003c/b> I testified for two hours on an open stand. I mean it, nobody knew about the Green Wall. The senators in the stand, my story hit the AP Associated Press, and shortly after that, I had to go off the grid into hiding for six months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In response, Val Sr. emailed Steele that he’d like to do a podcast. Steele replied, “Me too, I can’t wait to do it together. You and I will make history. Watch. I am with you always. Steele.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Kevin wanted to keep his story alive. The story, the big story, which I don’t know what it, what it is. The truth?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> 11 days after he died, Val Sr. sent a text message to his friend’s phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> “Hey buddy, I know this is crazy. I did the same thing when my son died in some way, I know you can see this message. I’m praying for your peace and the blessed travel. You’re no longer worried about anything. I’m going to do my best alone. I miss you, love you, and one day will see you and my son.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Somber music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. would have to look for the truth, whatever that was on his own. And now he added his questions about Steele’s death to the snarl of loose ends left behind by his son, Valentino’s. What were those repeated calls his son had made on the last day of his life—to the guy from the neighborhood, who was a source for pain pills? What was in the black balloon that Mimy had found ripping up the carpets in their house that had looked like drugs from inside the prison? What had Valentino known about the murder of Luis Giovanny Aguilar? And why didn’t the West Sacramento police seem interested in answering these questions?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All this time ever, since Val Sr. had that conversation with the police chief shortly after his son died, and heard those words, “They are not looking on the streets.” Val Sr. had believed that the FBI and or the prison’s Office of Internal Affairs might still be carrying out some kind of investigation into Valentino’s death—looking inside the prison for the source of the fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And in early 2022, about four or five months after Steele’s death and over a year after Valentino’s, it seemed like he might finally get some answers. The FBI set up a meeting with Val Sr. and his wife Erma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That day they pulled up outside the FBI field office in Roseville, near Sacramento, a three story building with large glass windows and a fenced perimeter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They were very, um, particular about searching me and making sure I left my phone in a car, all that stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> They were shown into a large conference room with glass walls and sat down at a long conference table with a female FBI agent and special agent Justin Bolden of CDCR’s Office of Internal Affairs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They spend a lot of time when you’re in a meeting like that observing you. So I was observing them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. says a senior FBI official came in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He introduced himself to me, and it’s nice to meet you. I hope we can answer any of your questions, but we can’t answer everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Then the official left the room. Erma says to her, it seemed like the agents had more questions than answers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> They kind of wanted to mainly knew what Valentino uncovered or heard or was told.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> About, like the Aguilar homicide or…?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> More, more about Kevin, I think. Like he would just ask him what he knew about that. I don’t know if he was maybe trying to see how much he knew or how much Kevin told him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Fishing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Erma Rodriguez:\u003c/b> They didn’t seem really warm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We called special agent Bolden, but he said he can’t comment on investigations. At this point, two officers had already gotten fired over their treatment of Valentino, but they still had an appeal pending before the State Personnel board, which is basically the HR department for the state. In the meeting, Val Sr. says he felt like a broken record going over his usual list of questions and suspicions. He says Bolden listened to him, but his response was final.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> They flat out told me they’re not, we’re not investigating your son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In a later email, the special agent clarified if there was any investigation to be done into Valentino’s death, that would’ve been the police’s job. The FBI told us they could not comment. After all this time, Val Sr. finally understood that nobody was looking into his son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Describe how you felt walking outta that meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Disappointed, dissatisfied, victimized, helpless, hopeless. I wasn’t sad or feeling bad. I just like, that was what I thought was my last stand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And without his partner Steele, his own investigation also ground to a halt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I hate to say I gave up, but I got to the point to, well, let me just wait and see and then time passes and I’m waiting. And then Julie called me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Julie made contact and we began this project trying to see if we’d be able to answer Val Sr’s questions and our own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> So that’s why we’re sitting down here right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Ad break]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It was more than a year into our investigation, in October of 2023, that the results came back from the forensic drug testing company. We’d shipped off a package to the company months earlier with the pills and the black bindle or balloon that looked so much like drugs seized from the prison. The results of their analysis could tell us if any of these items, and especially the balloon, was a match to the fentanyl and Valentino system when he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If they did, it wouldn’t prove anything conclusively, but it felt like something we couldn’t ignore. And who knows, it could support Val Sr’s theory that someone from New Folsom might have supplied Valentino with the drug. So Julie and I jumped on Zoom to read through the results of the test together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – Zoom chime]\u003c/i> Did you show the email?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I am just sending it to you now. I have not opened it yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> It wasn’t what we expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> So this is the little capsule that had the brownish, it looked like it could be heroin powder, but it is not. It is kratom. Kratom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Driving music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We found out it’s actually pronounced kratom. It’s an herbal substance that can produce opioid-like effects, but it’s not illegal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Circular white tablet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The tablet contains anti-nausea medication, and the other capsule doesn’t test positive for anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> No drugs detected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Black balloon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> One item. The black balloon. What? Oh, cocaine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> So the bindle is cocaine. It is not opioids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay. Yeah, Val’s just texting right now. “I sent you, the results to you. None of the tests for fentanyl, none of these were in his system.” Do you wanna call Val and see what he makes of it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – phone ringing] \u003c/i>Hello?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Yeah, I’m here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Well-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah. So what do you make of- make of the results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I was kicking that around in my head. I don’t know. I don’t know if it really has anything to do with the story. Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We talked through the results for a bit and Val Sr. goes over other suspicions that he still has about where the fentanyl came from and more broadly, who is to blame for his son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> How important is it to you that there is a direct line between someone giving him the fentanyl and him using it versus the, I think the very clear pattern that, that we \u003ci>can\u003c/i> show, which is that the stress of this job and the abuse that he suffered were factors on that day that kind of contributed to it. Even if we can’t put, you know, those drugs in somebody’s hand handing it to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> That’s a really hard question to answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah, I know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I’ve thought about that without even asking me that, that exact same thing. Sometimes I can be really honest with myself and sometimes I don’t know what honest is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> What do you mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Well, for example, the, in that, in that question you asked me in there is a hidden, uh, question, which is, well, did my son take this on his own? And would he be alive if he hadn’t? And yes, I gotta be honest. Yeah. Did he have an addiction? Yes, he did. If he had not had that addiction, would he still be alive? Yes. Yes, he would. Uh, on the other hand, if they had treated him the way they were supposed to treat him at that prison, like a, like an employee with integrity and they honored integrity, like, like they say they do, uh, on his graduation, what he’s trained for, then yeah, he’d still be alive, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Uh, so did the- the job contribute to his death? Yes. Was it intentional? Uh, well that’s, that’s why the source of the fentanyl has always been really important to me. Been really important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Ever since Valentino’s death, his father has been seeking closure—from the police, from the FBI, from us, and even from Steele. It’s hard to know if getting these items tested has gotten him any closer to that goal. On the one hand, the results don’t tell us that much, but on the other, the bindle is also clearly not what he thought it might be: evidence to support his theory that someone from the prison might have sent fentanyl to kill his son. But Val Sr. says he still believes in that theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I think it was intentional. Well, there’s, there’s nothing that has led me not to think that. Nothing. Everything I have found, it was intentional to get rid of him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I tell him, while this test kind of feels like a dead end, it does answer the question of what was in the bindle. And it frees us up to try to answer some of his other questions. We probably won’t be able to answer all of them, but we will try our best to answer most of them and then also kind of ask the bigger question behind those questions, which is: why are we the ones who are having to ask them? You know, why, why is this investigation not being done by the police?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Yeah. Why does Anderson get a promotion?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. brings it back to the prison. How come Sergeant David Anderson, Valentino’s direct boss, who Valentino says had threatened him and who hadn’t put a stop to the abuse from his other colleagues as required by agency policy, was not fired or removed as a supervisor? While we don’t know exactly what CDCR did to investigate or discipline Anderson, we do know that as of last year, he still worked at New Folsom and had even been promoted to a Lieutenant. Anderson did not respond to our calls requesting comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> All right, girls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> All right. Appreciate you, Val. Have a good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Okay, you too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Thanks. All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Give our best to Erma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> Okay, I will. Good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Good night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Even though the results from the forensic company felt unsatisfactory, they did free us up to move forward with some interviews we’d had on hold. As I told Val Sr. in that call, we had a lot of questions for the West Sacramento police chief. What had they done to investigate and could they have done more to find the source of the fentanyl? So in late October, Julie drove to the West Sacramento Police Department to put these questions to Chief Robert Strange.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Hello. You must be Chief Strange.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> How are you doing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Good. How are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Nice to meet you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The Chief brings Julie through the lobby, decked out in Halloween decorations and into his office on the walls. He’s got law enforcement mementos and baseball memorabilia. He tells Julie, he first spoke to Val Sr. almost exactly three years ago, right after Valentino’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Honestly, at first I thought, well, this is a man going through the loss of his son, trying to find an explanation. And I thought I just wanted to do my best to console him. But the longer things went on, and maybe a year later I started seeing, um, just news reports about what had been happening at Folsom Prison. I started putting two and two together realizing that there may have been at least some, some truth to at least the concerns he had about the work unit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He’s referring to the ISU squad. Now, it says something about the relationship between Chief Strange and Val Sr. that the Chief is even willing to talk to us. In my experience, a lot of the time, police chiefs refuse to address specific cases. They worry about liability issues. And Strange tells Julie that he only agreed to the interview at all after clearing it with Val Sr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I said, “Hey, like I got this inquiry. I wanna make sure that you’re okay with this.” ‘Cause it’s one of those things where I, I know I don’t have, I don’t have answers he wants to hear, that’s for sure. Um, but I also don’t wanna, I don’t want to get sideways with him either, and I understand what he’s trying to do. So, I mean, frankly, if he said, no, don’t talk to ‘em, I probably would’ve gone a different direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> As you can hear, their relationship is complicated. Val Sr. begged the Chief to do more to treat this case like it was his son on the bathroom floor. The Chief, while sympathetic, says he simply didn’t have the answers Val Sr. was looking for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I’m not gonna be able to deliver, um, a criminal investigation outcome that says that somebody is responsible for your son’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But the Chief listens to Julie as she walks him through the various leads that Val Sr. says were never followed up on—like the Black Bindle. Why didn’t the police collect it from Val Sr.? The Chief says he does remember some conversation about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I honestly don’t know what ultimately happened. I also would say I, I don’t know what it was gonna tell us, frankly. Uh, and that’s just the unfortunate reality is there wasn’t, it was gonna tell us that it was maybe drugs, right? Ultimately that’s what would’ve been tested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Um, but I don’t think it would tell us more than a toxicology probably did or, or anything along those lines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And Julie also asks the Chief about perhaps the most tangible lead in Val Sr’s cache of evidence: the cell provider call log from Valentino’s last days that shows this striking pattern of calls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Like this is the day- days leading up to his death. He called this person this many times.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The log lists six short calls that Valentino made on the day he died, and eight calls the day before, all to the same number. The number of the guy who lived in the neighborhood and was a known source for pain pills. And Julie shares what we’d discovered: none of those calls showed up on Valentino’s actual phone or on the hard drive we’d been given by Val Sr. They only appeared on this physical call log—the bill from his provider, which tracks all connections. This means someone, maybe Valentino, deleted all his calls to the neighborhood guy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> These phone calls were deleted from his phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Oh, really?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> If there were any text messages between the two men, they were also missing from the phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I was not aware of this at all. And specifically what you’re showing me here with the- both the number of calls and the approximate nature of these calls to his death… it’s pretty interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Initially, the man we’re calling “the guy from the neighborhood” didn’t agree to talk to us, but a few weeks after Julie spoke to the Chief, she went by his house. It felt important to get his side of things. He didn’t agree to a recorded interview, but he did speak with her. He denied ever selling Valentino drugs. He said he did not see him the day that he died and had no involvement in his death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie wanted to ask the Chief about this to figure out if the police could have done more to investigate at the time. But while the Chief says the pattern of calls is interesting, the case is still closed for now, and it’s not clear what evidence would be enough to reopen it. The Chief tells us he did assign a detective to look over the case again in early 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> I really, truly did not think that it would change anything, but at least out of an act of compassion, I just thought, let’s have him sit down with Val, talk through this again and see if there’s anything that maybe I haven’t seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> This detective spoke to Val Sr. and talked to Mimy, but did not find evidence of foul play, or anything that changed the department’s original assessment of the case. Just like I don’t think anything we’ve shown the Chief has changed that assessment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Quite simply, there just wasn’t evidence for us to see it as more than a self-inflicted overdose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And this is at the heart of the conflict between these two men. For Val Sr. his son’s death has always been a criminal matter. He cannot look away from the stunning fact pattern, the threats on his son’s phone, the timing of his death, just days after reporting misconduct to the warden. But even beyond that, the lethal drug that killed his son had to come from somewhere. And Val Sr. can’t understand why the police didn’t aggressively try to find out where.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Chief Strange, this case has always been a tragic accident. And none of the evidence at the scene and none of the evidence Val has uncovered, has changed this fundamental point of view. The department’s policy at the time was that they simply did not deeply investigate these kinds of cases. But the Chief says that policy is one big thing that Valentino’s death has changed. He says, based on that case, the department now does things differently when someone dies by fentanyl in the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> It did change things. I- I think we would’ve changed anyway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> But I don’t know that we would’ve changed as soon as I got back from talking to Val Sr. one day, ’cause that’s how it went down. I came back, I talked to my special investigations unit sergeant and I said, “Oh wait, I think we need to change what we’re doing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Because as we mentioned earlier, Valentino’s death in 2020 was part of a wave of fentanyl deaths. And even though this is cold comfort to Val Sr. If Valentino died today, the Chief says they’d have their special investigations unit involved at the scene of his death to look for evidence that might help them trace the source of the drugs. We don’t know what would’ve happened if this new policy had already been in place at the time. It still may not have resulted in any criminal charges, and there’s a lot of debate about whether policies that further criminalize drug sales are effective in addressing the opioid crisis. But it’s also possible that a more rigorous look at all the evidence right from the beginning, might have been able to give Val Sr. the one thing he still looking for, answers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To this day, Val Sr. still cannot accept why the Chief didn’t do more at the time. There is one final thing that we learned from Chief Strange about what he did do in the wake of Valentino’s death. He says, after talking to Val Sr, he called someone at the Office of Internal Affairs at CDCR and was put in touch with special agent Chris McGraw, thinking maybe the prison would want to take possession of Valentino’s phone to investigate some of those allegations Val Sr. had told him about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Uh, Val Sr. was talking about his perception of there being threats and at least some, um, just to put it generally some treatment of his son as a whistleblower and, and in the sense of being treated completely improperly as a whistleblower.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Right. There was evidence on the phone of, of, word leaking out that he had met with the warden and he told on the team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Oh wow, okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> And those, and he became aware of that the night that he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Okay. Wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But the Chief says, at the time when he talked to McGraw, it didn’t sound like any internal investigation was going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> It didn’t sound like it was something that, so to speak, jumped off the page to him… that we had Val’s- Val Rodriguez Jr’s phone. Like that was an opportunity. And so, uh, in that sense, I didn’t perceive a level of opportunity or excitement around that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> We reached out to McGraw, but he didn’t respond to our emails requesting comment. The police department released the phone back to the family. But Julie tells the Chief that McGraw did eventually get Valentino’s phone from Val Sr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> Learning of that today is heartening for me to know that at least there’s a likelihood that a fuller picture of the story of what was happening with Val Jr. leading up to his death, is hopefully, um, at least a little bit more colored in by the contents of that phone. Even if the realities of what is learned initially at least is more painful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> As we now know what the department discovered on that phone—the slurs and harassing messages—resulted in two officers getting fired and lesser discipline for a handful of other officers. Four of them are still appealing that discipline. And as far as we can tell, the higher ups avoided scrutiny altogether. We wanted to know why. Chief Strange says he also doesn’t know if CDCR and the FBI are done investigating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chief Robert Strange:\u003c/b> So it’ll be interesting to see if there’s more still going on in the investigative world and prosecutorial world when it comes to everything surrounding what was happening at that prison during that period of time. Thus far, it’s fairly alarming to put it very mildly. And anytime that anyone anywhere that’s wearing a badge, not only doesn’t take their oath seriously, but downright dishonors it—it absolutely affects all of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Ad break]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Victoria Mauleón:\u003c/b> \u003ci>[SFX – Zoom chime] \u003c/i>Who wants to start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In early 2023 I got on a Zoom with Julie and our editor, Victoria Mauleón, to give them a big update.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, so I talked, I called Michael Steele, Kevin Steele’s brother. We had that initial conversation. He said he would talk, but then was like, I can’t right now…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Val Sr. had shared a lot with us about who Steele was to him, but they had only really become close in the final year of Kevin’s life. We hoped someone in his family could give us a deeper understanding of this man who was so central to our story. His daughter had responded to my email saying she wasn’t able to participate, and Lili, Steele’s widow, also didn’t want to do a recorded interview with us. But finally, I had connected with someone who’d known him longer than almost anybody: his younger brother, Michael.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> He said that he had talked to Lili and that she was, um, she was positive about him participating. She was supportive of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Michael said he did have some reservations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His big question for me was, which side of the blue line are you on? And I said, you know, “Do I have to pick a side? Um, you know, I’m on the side of transparency and accountability.” \u003ci>[laughs]\u003c/i> Um, but he was like, you know, Kevin loved his job and he committed himself to it. Um, and he committed himself to participating in law enforcement. And, and Michael doesn’t wanna see that torn down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Music]\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\nUm, he obviously feels really complicated about it ’cause he also called him “a victim of the corruption in CDCR.” You know, I also said at one point, like, “This work isn’t about trying to tear things down. It’s about trying to, like, shine a light to expose problems or fix things.” And I used that word “fix,” and he was like, “Nothing is gonna be fixed for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> In July of 2023, after months of calls and texts, Mike agreed to meet me in person…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I’m Mike Steele, brother of Kevin Steele.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> …At the place where he spends the most time thinking about his brother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> For the recording, why don’t you just say where we are. So- to make sense of the noises people will be hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> We’re on my boat at the Marriott Marina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> In San Diego.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> In San Diego.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And you said-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Which is my happy place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike’s long-term girlfriend, Andrea, is here with him for support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kind of energy did he bring to life?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Intensity-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> … in everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike’s got those same startling blue eyes that his brother had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> The only difference between him and I that he was mad about is he didn’t have any hair and I did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> (laughs).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> And he started losing his hair really early, like in his 20s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> They have a lot of other similarities too. They both went into the military. Kevin chose the Air Force and Mike went into the Marines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> My dad was Navy. Uncles were Navy. You know, we always have had, uh, a very clear love of our country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike tells me after his brother’s service as a young man, he later joined the reserves and was twice deployed to Iraq.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> This roadside bomb shit all, you know, like, um, a lot of intensity. There was so many of his, um, comrades that didn’t come home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mmmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we sit on his boat in the San Diego Marina rain pats lightly on the plastic curtains. Mike’s eyes filled with tears and they run down his face.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He loved deep. And I mean, I, you know, like I said, my whole life, I just wanted him to be proud of me. And my dad, obviously. But, um, his opinion of me was more important than anybody else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Andrea:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Driving music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Kevin started working for the Department of Corrections in 2001, and after seven years at San Quentin, he was transferred to New Folsom Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> If he was supposed to be there at 5:00. He was there at 4:00, probably. You know, we both had the same work ethic. And he said, nobody fucking works harder than cast Steele. Like he fucking never slept.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> When did he sleep?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Like he was a machine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he became an investigator, he was relentless.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He didn’t quit until he got to the bottom of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But Mike says his role in the investigative services unit sometimes put him at odds with other officers. Now it was his job to find out the truth, even if that meant uncovering what some of his fellow officers were doing to the people in their custody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> He felt like he had to protect those people from, um, I mean, I’m just being completely honest that I struggled with him having that task of having to turn on his own people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> If it were him in that position, Mike says he’d probably side with the brotherhood of officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Did you ever ask him about it or say like, why are you-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> … sympathetic?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> What would he say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> What’s right is right. I mean, in those words exactly what’s right is right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But not everyone he worked with lived up to that code. And it bothered him. It bothered him to the point where Kevin started writing that memo to the warden at New Folsom, and ultimately making his plans to leave the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I mean, he lined everything up to where he was gonna drop the bomb and then, you know, ride off into the sunset and where all of his time lined up for retirement and just the who- everything was calculated for him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike says, even after his brother left, every conversation turned back to New Folsom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Did he talk to you about the, what he called the B8 homicide, which was the one that he believed officers had set up?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Yeah, he did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I said, as difficult as it is, you just gotta, you did what you were supposed to do, you did what you were paid to do. You gave the fucking evidence, proof, everything that you were supposed to do, you did. Let it fucking go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But he couldn’t, he was still consumed. Mike says he could feel something was wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I don’t know if you are comfortable talking at all about his drinking on the record, but I also just wondered how much you feel like that played a role?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Um, hmm. It was a Friday\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> At one point Mike had told me that Kevin had been drinking more heavily in Missouri, and so he and Lili made a deal: they’d only drink on the weekends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I don’t think it weakened him. I’m certain that it didn’t help, but I don’t know that it, um… I don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> But he says drinking didn’t change who Kevin was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, so I was just gonna ask if he talked to you at all about his safety concerns and how much that played a role in deciding to leave California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> Um, yeah, there was definitely issues and, um, God, he had guns. Boy a fucking ton of them. And, uh, he was, he was ready, you know, ’cause he did think that that was a possibility that they would, you know…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And did he ever have like any, you know, actual threats or any, you know, things that felt concrete?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I don’t, I wouldn’t say that I’m aware of any.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I’m not saying that that didn’t happen, but I, I’m not aware of any.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> But I mean, being in there, it, you know, you, you know what the system’s capable of, you know, just a matter of when it gets turned on you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mm-hmm. Did you or anyone else, like in his close family, consider foul play or think that you know somebody?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I mean, initially that’s what we thought, you know, it was part of the discussion that- but I saw the video. It is what it is. All by himself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> The video. This is the reason Mike is certain that Kevin wasn’t murdered. Just a warning, we’re gonna now walk through the details of his death. When we finally got the documents and dispatch tape in response to our records request to Miller County, we also got this video. It’s a 10 second recording captured by a camera attached to the outside of the shed. The time code on the video shows it was 5:23 in the afternoon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can see Kevin Steele come into the frame wearing an orange T-shirt and blue shorts. He has a length of rope in his hand. The other end of it is looped around his neck in a noose. He walks into the shed and he doesn’t come out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I saw the video of him going out to the shed, barn, whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Mike says, seeing the way his brother was walking…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> That was the fucking plan. And, um, it was just fucking following through with the plan. You know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Police reports show that Lili got home around 6:00 PM but couldn’t find Kevin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> It’s weird. He had taken chicken out to cook for dinner, out of the freezer, and he had opened the garage door for her ’cause he always would open the garage door when she was getting ready to get home. So she pulled up and the door’s open like everything’s normal. But she said when she went in the house, she thought it was strange—Kevin wasn’t in the house and the dogs were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Lili walked out to the shed and then called 911.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>911 Operator:\u003c/b> 911, location of your emergency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> She tells the dispatcher that she came home to find that her husband had hung himself. It’s really heartbreaking. So we’re not gonna play much of it. But at one point during the call, she does say something really important and she gave us permission to play this clip.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>911 Operator:\u003c/b> Has he been sick?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lili Steele:\u003c/b> No. \u003ci>[Sobs]\u003c/i> He’s just been dealing with a lot of stuff from his… work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> His work. Just like Mimy Rodriguez, when she found Valentino on the bathroom floor, Steele’s wife felt his work at the prison had something to do with his death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>11 minutes into the call, first responders arrive. The records show Lili later found a word document written on her husband’s computer that she turned over to the sheriff’s office. The note is titled, My Thoughts. The police report notes that the final edit was made to this document that same afternoon, a couple of hours before he died. “Lili is my angel, my light, and my survivor. Lili always had my back and remained my cheerleader. I know what time it is. It is the ninth hour and no one is here. I was. CDCR killed me. I told the truth and shielded the truth. Truth requires no shield, no triple plated armament or Abrams tank. These barbarians killed Valentino and I.” Then he lists the names of senior officials at New Folsom and finishes, “Cowards and bandits.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Three days after Kevin’s death, the family all gathered around the flagpole at Kevin’s house in Missouri. Mike and his father lowered the flag from the flagpole and folded it while they played a recording of Kevin’s niece playing taps on the trumpet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> I told you who he is. I told you he was. There’s no denying that they’re fucking responsible for what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> I think on- when we were on the phone, on one of the times I talked to you, you called him a victim of the system. Um-\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> 100 percent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Steele:\u003c/b> The system that he was trying to protect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> CDCR said the agency takes allegations of employee misconduct, “Very seriously.” And that they have a new process for reviewing complaints. But they did not answer our questions about how the department responded to Sergeant Kevin Steele’s efforts to address misconduct in the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> He just didn’t understand. He felt betrayed that he had worked his butt off for that prison- for the state. Never so much as took a pencil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Julie Small:\u003c/b> Do you ever feel angry with him for doing that? For leaving?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valentino Rodriguez, Sr:\u003c/b> I feel angry with my son and yeah, I feel angry with him, of course. Yeah. I didn’t ask to go on this ride with him. He reached out to me. And we did a lot of stuff together and he made a lot of promises to me—to be my voice. And just kind of pulled me along and then I just, like, I got pulled to here and then… cast away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> Val Sr. Never wanted to fight this fight, but he feels like he has to keep pushing for his son and for his friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>[Theme music]\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Coming up next time, we hear from a man who broke the rules of prison life to talk to Kevin Steele. Now he says his life is in danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dion Green:\u003c/b> I’m just frustrated. It just, I was having a funny feeling that this is, this is going to go bad. This is not gonna go like it’s supposed to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> And we dig deep into what really happened in the B8 day room, the day that Luis Giovanny Aguilar was killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinkerbell:\u003c/b> You know, and I’m not gonna sit here and judge whether, um, Aguilar was a good person or not, because it doesn’t matter. That wasn’t our job. Our job was to protect him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sukey Lewis:\u003c/b> You are listening to \u003ci>On Our Watch\u003c/i>, Season Two: New Folsom from KQED. If you have any tips or feedback about the series, you can email us at onourwatch@kqed.org. You can also leave us a review in Apple Podcasts. The series is reported by me, Sukey Lewis and Julie Small. It’s edited by Victoria Mauleón. It’s produced and scored by Steven Rascón and Chris Egusa, sound design and mixing by Tarek Fouda. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of podcasts and she executive produced the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meticulous Fact Checking by Mark Bettencourt. Additional research for this episode by Kathleen Quinn and Laura Fitzgerald, students in the investigative reporting program at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism, whose chair David Barstow provided valuable support for the whole series. Special thanks to Rahsaan Thomas of Ear Hustle, Sandhya Dirks of NPR, and KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. Original music by Ramtin Arablouei, including our theme song. Additional Music from APM Music and Audio Network.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding for On Our Watch is provided in part by Arnold Ventures and the California Endowment. And thanks to KQED’s Otis R. Taylor, Jr. Managing Editor of News and Enterprise, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, our Vice President of News and Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Despite Decades of Warnings, People Are Still Dying After Police Hold Them Face Down",
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"content": "\u003cp>[dropcap]O[/dropcap]n a Thursday morning in October 2020, less than five months after George Floyd was held on his stomach by Minneapolis police until he died, Shayne Sutherland called 911 from a convenience store in Stockton, California, and asked for a taxi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the operator told Sutherland he’d dialed 911, he said someone was trying to rob him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stockton Police Officers Ronald Zalunardo and John Afanasiev arrived at the store about 15 minutes later. In the meantime, a store employee had called 911, saying Sutherland was threatening him with a wine bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In body camera footage that captured the officers’ response, Sutherland seems fidgety, and his speech is difficult to understand at times, but he doesn’t appear violent, and he isn’t armed. He cooperates with police, addressing Zalunardo as “sir” and sitting against a wall outside the store as instructed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The officers question Sutherland. When he tells them he can’t remember why he’s under court supervision, Afanasiev says, “The drugs probably have something to do with it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How long you been using meth,” Zalnunardo asks. Sutherland stutters and says he’s been using cocaine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland briefly stands, then sits when ordered to do so. A minute later, he stands up again. This time, the officers tackle him to the ground and hold him belly-down — a position known as prone restraint. Thirty seconds later, his hands are cuffed behind his back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could have been the end of the encounter. Experts say prone restraint can be a safe, effective way to subdue someone and get them into handcuffs — so long as they’re quickly placed in a “recovery position” on their side or in a seated position to allow them to breathe more easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Zalunardo and Afanasiev didn’t do that. The body camera footage shows them holding Sutherland belly-down for more than eight minutes. For nearly half that time, Afanasiev lays across Sutherland’s back. Sutherland panics, alternating between moaning and screaming for help as Zalunardo, who uses his baton and body weight to help keep Sutherland’s shoulder down, repeatedly tells him, “Relax!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Please let me breathe,” Sutherland begs, his voice barely decipherable. In between shrieks and gasps, he calls out, “Mom!” He begs for help. “Please let me live.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the officers notice that he’s turning colors and losing consciousness, Sutherland, his mouth bloody from being slammed and scraped against the ground, sputters: “I’m f—ing dead.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another five-and-half minutes pass before officers roll Sutherland onto his side and begin to render aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland was declared dead 47 minutes later at a hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/embed/kCbdeXLgPcM?si=8NP_MTnHOxTuUMd9\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Exclusive findings: \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>‘It’s deeply concerning’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As far back as the 1990s, medical experts and law enforcement officials have been aware of the dangers of prone restraint. A number of organizations and law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Department of Justice, the Chicago Police Department and the New Orleans Police Department, warned officers of these dangers and advised them on how to minimize risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many training manuals have since been updated to address the risks of prone restraint and the importance of using the recovery position. Ohio State Police officers are forbidden from using prone restraint. A Nevada law forbids the practice. In California, a law that became effective in 2022, AB 490, bans any maneuvers that put people at risk of being unable to breathe due to the position of their body, or positional asphyxia, a common cause of death in prone restraint cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But a new review of law enforcement data shows that, despite growing awareness of the dangers of prone restraint, in California, the problem is pervasive. After the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB71\">AB 71\u003c/a> in 2015, California began tracking data about when people died after police use of force. Between 2016 and 2022, at least 22 people have died in the state after being restrained stomach-down by law enforcement officers, according to a new analysis of currently available state use-of-force data by the \u003cem>California Reporting Project,\u003c/em> \u003cem>The California Newsroom\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Guardian\u003c/em>. Our examination also included police reports, death investigations, district attorney reviews, body-worn camera footage, 911 calls and lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#reported\">Read more on how we reported this story\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Other key findings:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Nineteen of the 22 people who died following prone restraint tested positive for meth.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Five died after May 2020, when Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Two of those people died after AB 490 went into effect.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>All 22 cases involved people in crisis — either struggling with addiction, mental illness or otherwise behaving erratically.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Almost half of those who died were Latino, followed by white people — a trend that reflects larger use-of-force data in California.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Two of those who died were armed, but not with guns.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>“We really shouldn’t have any of these deaths,” said Seth W. Stoughton, a former police officer in Tallahassee, Florida, who teaches criminal law and procedure at the University of South Carolina’s Joseph F. Rice School of Law. “Any time there’s prolonged prone restraint, something’s going wrong. It should not happen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Seth W. Stoughton, former police officer, Tallahassee, Florida\"]‘We really shouldn’t have any of these deaths. Any time there’s prolonged prone restraint, something’s going wrong. It should not happen.’[/pullquote]“My general disgust [is] that we’re still having to talk about this,” he said. ”It’s a little depressing that we’re coming up on 30 years of making the same mistake over and over again. That’s really frustrating.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s deeply concerning to learn about the deaths of individuals in California due to positional asphyxia, even after it was banned by AB 490,” wrote California Assemblymember Mike Gipson, who was the primary author of the bill, in an emailed response to the findings. “These incidents underscore the urgent need for comprehensive training and accountability measures within law enforcement agencies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Others who have died following prone restraint by California police officers between 2016 and 2022 include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Isabel De La Torre\u003c/strong>, died on March 26, 2022, after her partner, who was five months pregnant, called 911 in Clovis, California, because she believed De La Torre was unconscious, according to official records and court documents. When De La Torre awoke, her partner hung up the phone, but Clovis police officers responded anyway. De La Torre tried to turn the officers away, hiding in a bathroom, writhing and screaming, allegedly holding a knife. When she came out of the room, officers ordered a police dog to bite her, bringing her to the ground, where officers handcuffed her and held her in the prone position for more than three minutes. She died of positional and compressional asphyxia due to prone restraint, according to the Fresno County Sheriff-Coroner. Her family sued the department for wrongful death and is set to receive a $1.9 million settlement.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Mario Gonzalez\u003c/strong>, who died on April 19, 2021, in Alameda, California. When police responded to a call about a man sitting in a park and talking to himself, officials said they found Gonzalez so intoxicated he couldn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24117516-da_report_gonzalez#document/p5/a2407325\">speak in full sentences\u003c/a>. He refused to take his hands out of his pockets, according to official reports, leading two officers to hold him down on his stomach while another held his legs. \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJnToNolHw\">Body camera \u003c/a>footage of the incident shows officers repeatedly telling each other not to put too much force on him, but they continued to hold him prone after he was handcuffed. He died of the “toxic effects of methamphetamine” after suffering a cardiopulmonary arrest, according to the Alameda County Coroner’s Bureau. His family sued the city of Alameda, the officers involved in Gonzalez’s death and the police chief at the time and won a settlement of $11 million. In 2023, the Alameda County district attorney \u003ca href=\"https://www.alcoda.org/alameda-county-district-attorneys-office-announces-pau/\">reopened\u003c/a> her office’s investigation into whether the officers acted criminally.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Edward Bronstein\u003c/strong>, who died on March 31, 2020, in Altadena, near Los Angeles. California Highway Patrol officers had detained Bronstein in an L.A. County station on suspicion of driving under the influence. When Bronstein declined to give a blood sample, officers forced him face down onto a mat, at which point he said, “I’ll do it willingly,” \u003ca href=\"https://vimeo.com/812954416\">a video of the incident shows\u003c/a>. An officer can be heard saying, “It’s too late.” Five officers continued to pin Bronstein to the ground. As they drew blood, Bronstein screamed, “I can’t breathe” and “Let me breathe” multiple times before his breathing and pulse stopped. Officers performed CPR to no avail. In 2023, the\u003ca href=\"https://da.lacounty.gov/media/news/seven-california-highway-patrol-officers-charged-connection-death-edward-bronstein\"> Los Angeles County district attorney charged \u003c/a>a CHP sergeant, six officers and a nurse with involuntary manslaughter and assault under the color of authority. His family was awarded a $24 million settlement in a civil wrongful death suit.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>And there may be more deaths beyond the 22 we found. While the state receives data from law enforcement agencies for deaths that occur after police use of force, it isn’t necessarily complete. That’s because agencies don’t always submit data to the state as they’re required to do, or data is otherwise excluded from the \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">state’s use-of-force database\u003c/a>. For example, Angelo Quinto died in 2020 after Antioch police officers held him prone, but his case is not in the database. Gipson, the assemblymember, said Quinto’s death was the impetus for the new legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the passage of AB 490, training manuals for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.antiochca.gov/fc/police/apd-policy-manual.pdf\">Antioch Police Department\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.scsdonline.com/admin-forms.html?download=76:department-policy\">Stanislaus County Sheriff’s Department\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://static1.squarespace.com/static/542ec317e4b0d41ade8801fb/t/62abca4da30bf052232349fd/1655425619484/6-15-22+Policy_Manual.pdf\">Sonoma County Sheriff’s Department\u003c/a> say that positional asphyxia is “the subject of debate among experts and medical professionals.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977047\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977047\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland sits by her son Shayne’s gravesite at the Park View Cemetery in Manteca, San Joaquin County, on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The science of prone restraint: ‘You’re just watching a preventable death’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When a person is lying prone on a hard surface, their chest cavity is compressed and breathing becomes difficult, especially when their hands are cuffed behind their backs. Add the body weight of one or more police officers, and compression increases, restricting the movement of the ribcage and diaphragm, which are vital for the inhalation of oxygen and exhalation of carbon dioxide. The lack of proper ventilation puts stress on many parts of the body, including the heart, as noted in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/system/files?file=file-attachments/701801.pdf\">2002 study by Disability Rights California\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The warnings go even further back. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf\">1995 bulletin (PDF)\u003c/a>, the U.S. Department of Justice cautioned law enforcement officers about the deadliness of positional asphyxia. “As soon as the suspect is handcuffed, get him off his stomach,” it reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bulletin outlines how subjects on drugs are at higher risk of death in the position, noting that “cocaine-induced bizarre or frenzied behavior… may increase a subject’s susceptibility to sudden death by effecting an increase of the heart rate to a critical level.” It also said that “drugs and/or alcohol” pose a “major risk factor” because “subjects may not realize they are suffocating.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Dr. Alon Steinberg, California cardiologist, who studies prone restraint\"]‘It’s horrible because you’re just watching a preventable death, and you know the person’s suffering.’[/pullquote]The bulletin explains that suspects restrained in a prone position often appear to be resisting officers when, in fact, they’re fighting, perhaps involuntarily, to get oxygen and carbon dioxide in and out of their bodies as their chest is squeezed. As the memo reads: “The individual experiences increased difficulty breathing. The natural reaction to oxygen deficiency occurs — the person struggles more violently. The officer applies more compression to subdue the individual.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s horrible because you’re just watching a preventable death, and you know the person’s suffering,” said Dr. Alon Steinberg, a California cardiologist who studies prone restraint and has viewed hours of footage of people being held stomach-down by police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg, who serves as an expert witness, believes that cardiac arrests following prone restraint might be caused by more than just a lack of oxygen in the heart muscle. When someone can adequately breathe, the expulsion of carbon dioxide regulates the level of acid in the blood. But when breathing and blood flow are restricted, acid can build and cause cardiac arrest, as Steinberg and forensic pathologists Dr. Victor Weedn and Dr. Peter Speth proposed in a \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35869602/\">2022 study\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Daniel Wohlgelernter, a cardiologist who has also testified in a number of prone-restraint cases, agrees. He pointed out that putting someone in prone restraint when they are in a hyperactive state — as people often are when on stimulants or in crisis — can exacerbate acidosis and cause a “double whammy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have carbon dioxide accumulation, development of lethal or potentially lethal metabolic acidosis at the same time that we have deprivation of oxygen,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread agreement about the dangers of positional asphyxia caused by prone restraint, some studies have argued that the restriction of airflow caused by prone restraint is not, in most cases, enough to kill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medical and legal experts have pointed out flaws in the studies, which have been done on healthy, sober individuals in police-free environments and don’t duplicate a real-life prone-restraint scenario.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Studies like that, if they actually had the potential to kill anyone, would never be approved by an institutional review board,” said Joanna Naples-Mitchell, an attorney with Physicians for Human Rights. “So it’s not something that’s actually possible to model in the real world in a safe way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977048\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11977048 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland holds a necklace with her son Shayne’s fingerprint and name at Park View Cemetery in Manteca, San Joaquin County, on Feb. 24, 2024, where Shayne is buried. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Sorting out causes of death: ‘Alive and fine’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Of the 22 deaths we found where people died after being held stomach-down, coroners and medical examiners attributed acute methamphetamine toxicity to 10 deaths. Coroners are usually elected, and few places require them to have a medical background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wohlgelernter and Steinberg are skeptical of those determinations. Both were adamant that in the prone restraint cases they’ve reviewed, methamphetamine, on its own, was not to blame for deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In no cases did I see that the individuals were destined to die on that day, if not for the interaction with law enforcement and the prone restraint compressive asphyxia,” Wohlgelernter said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg pointed out that while people can overdose on meth, those who wind up dead after being restrained face down were “alive and fine” before they had a run-in with police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Dr. Daniel Wohlgelernter, cardiologist, Santa Monica, California\"]‘In no cases did I see that the individuals were destined to die on that day, if not for the interaction with law enforcement and the prone restraint compressive asphyxia.’[/pullquote]“They’re alive beforehand. They’re alive for a few minutes in the prone position, and then after a prolonged episode of restraint, people die,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Odey Ukpo, chief medical examiner-coroner for Los Angeles County, where seven deaths following prone restraint were attributed to meth use or toxicity, said it’s more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What some people don’t realize is that a cause-of-death [determination] is a medical opinion,” he said. “It’s based on deductive reasoning.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For instance, Ukpo said he looks for signs of petechiae, a dot-like pattern of blood in the eyes or on the gums, before ruling whether someone died of asphyxia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Seth Stoughton, the University of South Carolina law professor and former police officer, who wrote an \u003ca href=\"https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-510/251192/20221230160849621_Stoughton%20Amicus%20Br.pdf\">amicus brief (PDF)\u003c/a> about the dangers of positional asphyxia that was submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court in 2022, causes of death are beside the point. Prone restraint, he argues, is so easy to perform safely that it should never lead to deaths in the first place, no matter who’s being restrained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Whether they’re dying of oxygen deprivation or metabolic acidosis is irrelevant,” he said. “People are still dying! And if you flip them over to their side, they don’t!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stoughton served as an expert witness in the case against Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd. He says that if officers take the proper precautions to manage the scene and protect themselves, someone in handcuffs on their side is not a great danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re talking about literally the difference between taking someone from their stomach and rolling them 90 degrees onto their side,” he said. “If there is any increase in risk at all [to officers], it is so marginal that it is vastly outweighed by the potential of saving that person’s life.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to training officers to use the recovery position as a matter of routine, experts say officers can keep an eye out for warning signs when restraining people prone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wohlgelernter says officers should watch for changes in alertness, speech or physical movements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg argues that the use of prone restraint should be limited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Justin M. Feldman, principal research scientist at the \u003ca href=\"https://policingequity.org/\">Center for Policing Equity\u003c/a>, said that some incidents escalate because of officers’ bias against people who abuse drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think they fundamentally don’t respect people they view as addicts or tweakers or whatever the pejorative might be, and treat them accordingly without respect for their lives,” Feldman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Peter Moskos, a criminologist with John Jay College of Criminal Justice and former Baltimore police officer, there should be a greater focus on preventing the events that lead people into the hands of police by getting them the help they need, such as jobs, housing, drug treatment and mental health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At some point, it would have been nice if someone could have pulled a switch track and diverted that person, whether it’s community, family, other government agencies, anything,” he said. “But once you get to that point [of a police encounter], it’s kind of too late to offer an ideal solution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977195\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977195\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"1138\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01.jpg 640w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01-160x285.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shayne Sutherland and his mother, Karen, in 2019. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Karen Sutherland)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘He knew he was dying’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The San Joaquin County medical examiner’s office determined that Shayne Sutherland’s cause of death was cardiac arrest due to “acute methamphetamine toxicity” with a contributing factor of “physical restraint by law enforcement.” In other words, meth, not police, was primarily responsible for Sutherland’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland’s family wasn’t satisfied with the medical examiner’s findings or with the Stockton Police Department’s response to his death. In October 2021, they filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city of Stockton, Officers Zalunardo and Afanasiev and former Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones. The suit alleges wrongful death, excessive force and interfering with Sutherland’s constitutional rights by force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They did not have that right to judge him that morning,” his mother, Karen Sutherland, said. “They did not have that right to do what they did.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families of people in California who have died following prone restraint have won at least $41 million in civil suits across the state, according to court documents and press reports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the year leading up to her son’s death, Karen managed to get Shayne into rehab for a stint, but finding mental health care and ongoing treatment was a struggle. When people like Shayne reach out for help, she said, “They’re turned away, or they’re told they have to wait.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[But] when you have a mental health problem, you can’t wait,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last December, Karen pulled into Park View Cemetery in Manteca — about 20 minutes south of Stockton — and walked to her son’s grave. Sitting on a blanket, she talked about Shayne’s life: his “teddy bear” lovability; the fishing and camping trips with his two kids, Shayne Jr., 8, and Demi, 7; coaching the Manteca Chargers youth football team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Karen Sutherland, mother of Shayne Sutherland\"]‘I’ve always been able to handle things. I’m a very strong person, but not when this happened. This broke me — completely shattered me.’[/pullquote]She talked about the hard times, too: the cocaine and meth addiction; the split with the mother of his children; the “little, petty, stupid, whatever crimes” that, she said, “are in no way in any comparison of any type of magnitude of the crime that those two police officers committed that day when they killed my son.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve always been able to handle things,” she said. “I’m a very strong person, but not when this happened. This broke me — completely shattered me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Shayne’s death, Stockton PD determined that Zalunardo and Afanasiev acted within policy. The only issue the investigation raised was that Zalunardo left his baton “unsecured on the ground near the suspect” when administering aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Stockton Police Department did not respond to our requests for comments and interviews with the officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen has watched the footage of Shayne’s final encounter with police. But she says she’ll never turn on the sound, because others have told her what she’d have to hear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He knew he was dying,” she said. “He was being tortured. And knowing that tortures me every second, man. Every second.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen chose this particular grave site because of the morning sun that hits it each day. She’s come to believe that God reached down to stop Shayne’s suffering — not just at the hands of police, but in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the winter sunshine, the top of Shayne’s headstone reads: “God reached down and rescued me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was published in partnership with the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us\">\u003cem>Guardian\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Additional reporting by Bella Arnold, Hanisha Harjani, Simmerdeep Kaur, Grace Marion, Adam Solorzano and Krissy Waite of Berkeley Journalism’s Investigative Reporting Program; Leila Barghouty, Jacqueline Munis and Camryn Pak of Stanford University’s Big Local News; and Brian Krans of The California Newsroom. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The California Newsroom is a collaboration of public media outlets throughout the state, with NPR as its national partner. The \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003cem>California Reporting Project\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> collected police records. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This project was completed with the support of a grant from Columbia University’s\u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.columbia.edu/news/lipman-center-awards-180000-grants-reporting-abuses-us-criminal-justice-system\">\u003cem> Ira A. Lipman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> in conjunction with Arnold Ventures. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003ca id=\"reported\">\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>How We Reported This Story\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the 1990s, experts have warned that restraining someone prone, or on their stomach, can kill them. When someone is agitated, on stimulants or acting erratically, they are also more likely to die if officers use prone restraint, according to medical experts. Former police officers and criminologists say that putting someone on their side or seated after they’re handcuffed saves lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2020, Antioch police officers held Angelo Quinto down on his stomach after responding to a call from his family. His death inspired California legislation, which went into effect in 2022, that prohibits officers from using techniques such as prone restraint that “involve a substantial risk of positional asphyxia.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Newsroom and The California Reporting Project wanted to better understand how many people were dying after officers used prone restraint in the Golden State.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the passage of state law \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB71\">AB 71\u003c/a>, California law enforcement agencies submit \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">anonymized data\u003c/a> to the state Department of Justice’s Use of Force Incident Reporting database when officers seriously injure or kill people. That data contains information listing the types of force officers used and whether someone died. Currently, the data includes incidents that occurred from 2016 to 2022. Although people can die from prone restraint after being otherwise injured, we wanted to focus on cases where the cause of death was more clear. We filtered the data to incidents where someone died and officers used a control hold but did not use a gun, Taser or carotid restraint. Outside of carotid holds, the data does not distinguish between specific types of restraint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To better identify the decedents, reporters then combined the use-of-force data with data from \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">California’s Death In-Custody\u003c/a> database. To ascertain whether officers specifically used prone restraint on those decedents, we used public record requests to obtain records and body camera footage from law enforcement agencies, district attorneys, medical examiner/coroners and oversight agencies about the incidents. We also obtained lawsuits in cases where loved ones sued local authorities. Two people reviewed those records, and an editor checked that work. We were unable to obtain enough records on four people’s deaths and excluded them from our analysis. Through our reporting, we determined five were incorrectly marked as not having been tased and removed them from our analysis. We also found that two people did not clearly die after a prone restraint and cut them from our analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, we know that this data was incomplete because it did not include Angelo Quinto. We had records showing that officers used prone restraint, so we included him in our analysis despite his not appearing in the state’s use-of-force data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Justin Feldman, principal research scientist at the \u003ca href=\"https://policingequity.org/\">Center for Policing Equity\u003c/a>, says that it’s not uncommon for prone restraint deaths to go unreported. In \u003ca href=\"https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/35083738/FELDMAN-DISSERTATION-2018.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y\">a study\u003c/a>, he found that in \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/11/police-killings-counted-harvard-study\">more than half the cases when police kill someone, it’s not documented on the death certificate\u003c/a> and so may not be properly recorded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Feldman said the “number one predictor” of misreported deaths was when officers didn’t shoot someone, such as when they used prone restraint or a Taser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two police departments would not release police reports to the \u003cem>California Reporting Project\u003c/em> because the death investigations found the men died of other causes, such as methamphetamine toxicity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "'Please let me live' were among the last words uttered by a young Stockton man who died after police put him in what's known as a prone restraint. At least 22 people have died in California since 2016 after being restrained stomach-down by law enforcement, according to a new analysis.",
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"title": "Despite Decades of Warnings, People Are Still Dying After Police Hold Them Face Down | KQED",
"description": "'Please let me live' were among the last words uttered by a young Stockton man who died after police put him in what's known as a prone restraint. At least 22 people have died in California since 2016 after being restrained stomach-down by law enforcement, according to a new analysis.",
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"nprByline": "Emily Zentner (The California Newsroom), Lisa Pickoff-White (The California Reporting Project)\u003cbr>This story was published in partnership with\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us\"> the Guardian\u003c/a>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__dropcapShortcode__dropcap\">O\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>n a Thursday morning in October 2020, less than five months after George Floyd was held on his stomach by Minneapolis police until he died, Shayne Sutherland called 911 from a convenience store in Stockton, California, and asked for a taxi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the operator told Sutherland he’d dialed 911, he said someone was trying to rob him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stockton Police Officers Ronald Zalunardo and John Afanasiev arrived at the store about 15 minutes later. In the meantime, a store employee had called 911, saying Sutherland was threatening him with a wine bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In body camera footage that captured the officers’ response, Sutherland seems fidgety, and his speech is difficult to understand at times, but he doesn’t appear violent, and he isn’t armed. He cooperates with police, addressing Zalunardo as “sir” and sitting against a wall outside the store as instructed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The officers question Sutherland. When he tells them he can’t remember why he’s under court supervision, Afanasiev says, “The drugs probably have something to do with it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How long you been using meth,” Zalnunardo asks. Sutherland stutters and says he’s been using cocaine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland briefly stands, then sits when ordered to do so. A minute later, he stands up again. This time, the officers tackle him to the ground and hold him belly-down — a position known as prone restraint. Thirty seconds later, his hands are cuffed behind his back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could have been the end of the encounter. Experts say prone restraint can be a safe, effective way to subdue someone and get them into handcuffs — so long as they’re quickly placed in a “recovery position” on their side or in a seated position to allow them to breathe more easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Zalunardo and Afanasiev didn’t do that. The body camera footage shows them holding Sutherland belly-down for more than eight minutes. For nearly half that time, Afanasiev lays across Sutherland’s back. Sutherland panics, alternating between moaning and screaming for help as Zalunardo, who uses his baton and body weight to help keep Sutherland’s shoulder down, repeatedly tells him, “Relax!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Please let me breathe,” Sutherland begs, his voice barely decipherable. In between shrieks and gasps, he calls out, “Mom!” He begs for help. “Please let me live.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the officers notice that he’s turning colors and losing consciousness, Sutherland, his mouth bloody from being slammed and scraped against the ground, sputters: “I’m f—ing dead.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another five-and-half minutes pass before officers roll Sutherland onto his side and begin to render aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland was declared dead 47 minutes later at a hospital.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/kCbdeXLgPcM?si=8NP_MTnHOxTuUMd9'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/kCbdeXLgPcM?si=8NP_MTnHOxTuUMd9'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Exclusive findings: \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>‘It’s deeply concerning’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As far back as the 1990s, medical experts and law enforcement officials have been aware of the dangers of prone restraint. A number of organizations and law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Department of Justice, the Chicago Police Department and the New Orleans Police Department, warned officers of these dangers and advised them on how to minimize risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many training manuals have since been updated to address the risks of prone restraint and the importance of using the recovery position. Ohio State Police officers are forbidden from using prone restraint. A Nevada law forbids the practice. In California, a law that became effective in 2022, AB 490, bans any maneuvers that put people at risk of being unable to breathe due to the position of their body, or positional asphyxia, a common cause of death in prone restraint cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But a new review of law enforcement data shows that, despite growing awareness of the dangers of prone restraint, in California, the problem is pervasive. After the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB71\">AB 71\u003c/a> in 2015, California began tracking data about when people died after police use of force. Between 2016 and 2022, at least 22 people have died in the state after being restrained stomach-down by law enforcement officers, according to a new analysis of currently available state use-of-force data by the \u003cem>California Reporting Project,\u003c/em> \u003cem>The California Newsroom\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Guardian\u003c/em>. Our examination also included police reports, death investigations, district attorney reviews, body-worn camera footage, 911 calls and lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"#reported\">Read more on how we reported this story\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Other key findings:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Nineteen of the 22 people who died following prone restraint tested positive for meth.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Five died after May 2020, when Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Two of those people died after AB 490 went into effect.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>All 22 cases involved people in crisis — either struggling with addiction, mental illness or otherwise behaving erratically.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Almost half of those who died were Latino, followed by white people — a trend that reflects larger use-of-force data in California.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Two of those who died were armed, but not with guns.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>“We really shouldn’t have any of these deaths,” said Seth W. Stoughton, a former police officer in Tallahassee, Florida, who teaches criminal law and procedure at the University of South Carolina’s Joseph F. Rice School of Law. “Any time there’s prolonged prone restraint, something’s going wrong. It should not happen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“My general disgust [is] that we’re still having to talk about this,” he said. ”It’s a little depressing that we’re coming up on 30 years of making the same mistake over and over again. That’s really frustrating.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s deeply concerning to learn about the deaths of individuals in California due to positional asphyxia, even after it was banned by AB 490,” wrote California Assemblymember Mike Gipson, who was the primary author of the bill, in an emailed response to the findings. “These incidents underscore the urgent need for comprehensive training and accountability measures within law enforcement agencies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Others who have died following prone restraint by California police officers between 2016 and 2022 include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Isabel De La Torre\u003c/strong>, died on March 26, 2022, after her partner, who was five months pregnant, called 911 in Clovis, California, because she believed De La Torre was unconscious, according to official records and court documents. When De La Torre awoke, her partner hung up the phone, but Clovis police officers responded anyway. De La Torre tried to turn the officers away, hiding in a bathroom, writhing and screaming, allegedly holding a knife. When she came out of the room, officers ordered a police dog to bite her, bringing her to the ground, where officers handcuffed her and held her in the prone position for more than three minutes. She died of positional and compressional asphyxia due to prone restraint, according to the Fresno County Sheriff-Coroner. Her family sued the department for wrongful death and is set to receive a $1.9 million settlement.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Mario Gonzalez\u003c/strong>, who died on April 19, 2021, in Alameda, California. When police responded to a call about a man sitting in a park and talking to himself, officials said they found Gonzalez so intoxicated he couldn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24117516-da_report_gonzalez#document/p5/a2407325\">speak in full sentences\u003c/a>. He refused to take his hands out of his pockets, according to official reports, leading two officers to hold him down on his stomach while another held his legs. \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJnToNolHw\">Body camera \u003c/a>footage of the incident shows officers repeatedly telling each other not to put too much force on him, but they continued to hold him prone after he was handcuffed. He died of the “toxic effects of methamphetamine” after suffering a cardiopulmonary arrest, according to the Alameda County Coroner’s Bureau. His family sued the city of Alameda, the officers involved in Gonzalez’s death and the police chief at the time and won a settlement of $11 million. In 2023, the Alameda County district attorney \u003ca href=\"https://www.alcoda.org/alameda-county-district-attorneys-office-announces-pau/\">reopened\u003c/a> her office’s investigation into whether the officers acted criminally.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Edward Bronstein\u003c/strong>, who died on March 31, 2020, in Altadena, near Los Angeles. California Highway Patrol officers had detained Bronstein in an L.A. County station on suspicion of driving under the influence. When Bronstein declined to give a blood sample, officers forced him face down onto a mat, at which point he said, “I’ll do it willingly,” \u003ca href=\"https://vimeo.com/812954416\">a video of the incident shows\u003c/a>. An officer can be heard saying, “It’s too late.” Five officers continued to pin Bronstein to the ground. As they drew blood, Bronstein screamed, “I can’t breathe” and “Let me breathe” multiple times before his breathing and pulse stopped. Officers performed CPR to no avail. In 2023, the\u003ca href=\"https://da.lacounty.gov/media/news/seven-california-highway-patrol-officers-charged-connection-death-edward-bronstein\"> Los Angeles County district attorney charged \u003c/a>a CHP sergeant, six officers and a nurse with involuntary manslaughter and assault under the color of authority. His family was awarded a $24 million settlement in a civil wrongful death suit.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>And there may be more deaths beyond the 22 we found. While the state receives data from law enforcement agencies for deaths that occur after police use of force, it isn’t necessarily complete. That’s because agencies don’t always submit data to the state as they’re required to do, or data is otherwise excluded from the \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">state’s use-of-force database\u003c/a>. For example, Angelo Quinto died in 2020 after Antioch police officers held him prone, but his case is not in the database. Gipson, the assemblymember, said Quinto’s death was the impetus for the new legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the passage of AB 490, training manuals for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.antiochca.gov/fc/police/apd-policy-manual.pdf\">Antioch Police Department\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.scsdonline.com/admin-forms.html?download=76:department-policy\">Stanislaus County Sheriff’s Department\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://static1.squarespace.com/static/542ec317e4b0d41ade8801fb/t/62abca4da30bf052232349fd/1655425619484/6-15-22+Policy_Manual.pdf\">Sonoma County Sheriff’s Department\u003c/a> say that positional asphyxia is “the subject of debate among experts and medical professionals.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977047\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977047\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-09-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland sits by her son Shayne’s gravesite at the Park View Cemetery in Manteca, San Joaquin County, on Feb. 24, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The science of prone restraint: ‘You’re just watching a preventable death’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When a person is lying prone on a hard surface, their chest cavity is compressed and breathing becomes difficult, especially when their hands are cuffed behind their backs. Add the body weight of one or more police officers, and compression increases, restricting the movement of the ribcage and diaphragm, which are vital for the inhalation of oxygen and exhalation of carbon dioxide. The lack of proper ventilation puts stress on many parts of the body, including the heart, as noted in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/system/files?file=file-attachments/701801.pdf\">2002 study by Disability Rights California\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The warnings go even further back. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf\">1995 bulletin (PDF)\u003c/a>, the U.S. Department of Justice cautioned law enforcement officers about the deadliness of positional asphyxia. “As soon as the suspect is handcuffed, get him off his stomach,” it reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bulletin outlines how subjects on drugs are at higher risk of death in the position, noting that “cocaine-induced bizarre or frenzied behavior… may increase a subject’s susceptibility to sudden death by effecting an increase of the heart rate to a critical level.” It also said that “drugs and/or alcohol” pose a “major risk factor” because “subjects may not realize they are suffocating.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The bulletin explains that suspects restrained in a prone position often appear to be resisting officers when, in fact, they’re fighting, perhaps involuntarily, to get oxygen and carbon dioxide in and out of their bodies as their chest is squeezed. As the memo reads: “The individual experiences increased difficulty breathing. The natural reaction to oxygen deficiency occurs — the person struggles more violently. The officer applies more compression to subdue the individual.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s horrible because you’re just watching a preventable death, and you know the person’s suffering,” said Dr. Alon Steinberg, a California cardiologist who studies prone restraint and has viewed hours of footage of people being held stomach-down by police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg, who serves as an expert witness, believes that cardiac arrests following prone restraint might be caused by more than just a lack of oxygen in the heart muscle. When someone can adequately breathe, the expulsion of carbon dioxide regulates the level of acid in the blood. But when breathing and blood flow are restricted, acid can build and cause cardiac arrest, as Steinberg and forensic pathologists Dr. Victor Weedn and Dr. Peter Speth proposed in a \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35869602/\">2022 study\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Daniel Wohlgelernter, a cardiologist who has also testified in a number of prone-restraint cases, agrees. He pointed out that putting someone in prone restraint when they are in a hyperactive state — as people often are when on stimulants or in crisis — can exacerbate acidosis and cause a “double whammy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have carbon dioxide accumulation, development of lethal or potentially lethal metabolic acidosis at the same time that we have deprivation of oxygen,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread agreement about the dangers of positional asphyxia caused by prone restraint, some studies have argued that the restriction of airflow caused by prone restraint is not, in most cases, enough to kill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medical and legal experts have pointed out flaws in the studies, which have been done on healthy, sober individuals in police-free environments and don’t duplicate a real-life prone-restraint scenario.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Studies like that, if they actually had the potential to kill anyone, would never be approved by an institutional review board,” said Joanna Naples-Mitchell, an attorney with Physicians for Human Rights. “So it’s not something that’s actually possible to model in the real world in a safe way.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977048\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11977048 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240224-TOXICRESTRAINT-12-BL-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karen Sutherland holds a necklace with her son Shayne’s fingerprint and name at Park View Cemetery in Manteca, San Joaquin County, on Feb. 24, 2024, where Shayne is buried. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Sorting out causes of death: ‘Alive and fine’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Of the 22 deaths we found where people died after being held stomach-down, coroners and medical examiners attributed acute methamphetamine toxicity to 10 deaths. Coroners are usually elected, and few places require them to have a medical background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wohlgelernter and Steinberg are skeptical of those determinations. Both were adamant that in the prone restraint cases they’ve reviewed, methamphetamine, on its own, was not to blame for deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In no cases did I see that the individuals were destined to die on that day, if not for the interaction with law enforcement and the prone restraint compressive asphyxia,” Wohlgelernter said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg pointed out that while people can overdose on meth, those who wind up dead after being restrained face down were “alive and fine” before they had a run-in with police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“They’re alive beforehand. They’re alive for a few minutes in the prone position, and then after a prolonged episode of restraint, people die,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Odey Ukpo, chief medical examiner-coroner for Los Angeles County, where seven deaths following prone restraint were attributed to meth use or toxicity, said it’s more complicated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What some people don’t realize is that a cause-of-death [determination] is a medical opinion,” he said. “It’s based on deductive reasoning.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For instance, Ukpo said he looks for signs of petechiae, a dot-like pattern of blood in the eyes or on the gums, before ruling whether someone died of asphyxia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Seth Stoughton, the University of South Carolina law professor and former police officer, who wrote an \u003ca href=\"https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-510/251192/20221230160849621_Stoughton%20Amicus%20Br.pdf\">amicus brief (PDF)\u003c/a> about the dangers of positional asphyxia that was submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court in 2022, causes of death are beside the point. Prone restraint, he argues, is so easy to perform safely that it should never lead to deaths in the first place, no matter who’s being restrained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Whether they’re dying of oxygen deprivation or metabolic acidosis is irrelevant,” he said. “People are still dying! And if you flip them over to their side, they don’t!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Stoughton served as an expert witness in the case against Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd. He says that if officers take the proper precautions to manage the scene and protect themselves, someone in handcuffs on their side is not a great danger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re talking about literally the difference between taking someone from their stomach and rolling them 90 degrees onto their side,” he said. “If there is any increase in risk at all [to officers], it is so marginal that it is vastly outweighed by the potential of saving that person’s life.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to training officers to use the recovery position as a matter of routine, experts say officers can keep an eye out for warning signs when restraining people prone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wohlgelernter says officers should watch for changes in alertness, speech or physical movements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg argues that the use of prone restraint should be limited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Justin M. Feldman, principal research scientist at the \u003ca href=\"https://policingequity.org/\">Center for Policing Equity\u003c/a>, said that some incidents escalate because of officers’ bias against people who abuse drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think they fundamentally don’t respect people they view as addicts or tweakers or whatever the pejorative might be, and treat them accordingly without respect for their lives,” Feldman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Peter Moskos, a criminologist with John Jay College of Criminal Justice and former Baltimore police officer, there should be a greater focus on preventing the events that lead people into the hands of police by getting them the help they need, such as jobs, housing, drug treatment and mental health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At some point, it would have been nice if someone could have pulled a switch track and diverted that person, whether it’s community, family, other government agencies, anything,” he said. “But once you get to that point [of a police encounter], it’s kind of too late to offer an ideal solution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11977195\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11977195\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"1138\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01.jpg 640w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/240227-TOXIC-RESTRAINT-CN-01-160x285.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shayne Sutherland and his mother, Karen, in 2019. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Karen Sutherland)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘He knew he was dying’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The San Joaquin County medical examiner’s office determined that Shayne Sutherland’s cause of death was cardiac arrest due to “acute methamphetamine toxicity” with a contributing factor of “physical restraint by law enforcement.” In other words, meth, not police, was primarily responsible for Sutherland’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sutherland’s family wasn’t satisfied with the medical examiner’s findings or with the Stockton Police Department’s response to his death. In October 2021, they filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city of Stockton, Officers Zalunardo and Afanasiev and former Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones. The suit alleges wrongful death, excessive force and interfering with Sutherland’s constitutional rights by force.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They did not have that right to judge him that morning,” his mother, Karen Sutherland, said. “They did not have that right to do what they did.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families of people in California who have died following prone restraint have won at least $41 million in civil suits across the state, according to court documents and press reports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the year leading up to her son’s death, Karen managed to get Shayne into rehab for a stint, but finding mental health care and ongoing treatment was a struggle. When people like Shayne reach out for help, she said, “They’re turned away, or they’re told they have to wait.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[But] when you have a mental health problem, you can’t wait,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last December, Karen pulled into Park View Cemetery in Manteca — about 20 minutes south of Stockton — and walked to her son’s grave. Sitting on a blanket, she talked about Shayne’s life: his “teddy bear” lovability; the fishing and camping trips with his two kids, Shayne Jr., 8, and Demi, 7; coaching the Manteca Chargers youth football team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>She talked about the hard times, too: the cocaine and meth addiction; the split with the mother of his children; the “little, petty, stupid, whatever crimes” that, she said, “are in no way in any comparison of any type of magnitude of the crime that those two police officers committed that day when they killed my son.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve always been able to handle things,” she said. “I’m a very strong person, but not when this happened. This broke me — completely shattered me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Shayne’s death, Stockton PD determined that Zalunardo and Afanasiev acted within policy. The only issue the investigation raised was that Zalunardo left his baton “unsecured on the ground near the suspect” when administering aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Stockton Police Department did not respond to our requests for comments and interviews with the officers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen has watched the footage of Shayne’s final encounter with police. But she says she’ll never turn on the sound, because others have told her what she’d have to hear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He knew he was dying,” she said. “He was being tortured. And knowing that tortures me every second, man. Every second.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Karen chose this particular grave site because of the morning sun that hits it each day. She’s come to believe that God reached down to stop Shayne’s suffering — not just at the hands of police, but in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the winter sunshine, the top of Shayne’s headstone reads: “God reached down and rescued me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was published in partnership with the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us\">\u003cem>Guardian\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Additional reporting by Bella Arnold, Hanisha Harjani, Simmerdeep Kaur, Grace Marion, Adam Solorzano and Krissy Waite of Berkeley Journalism’s Investigative Reporting Program; Leila Barghouty, Jacqueline Munis and Camryn Pak of Stanford University’s Big Local News; and Brian Krans of The California Newsroom. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The California Newsroom is a collaboration of public media outlets throughout the state, with NPR as its national partner. The \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://projects.scpr.org/california-reporting-project/\">\u003cem>California Reporting Project\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> collected police records. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This project was completed with the support of a grant from Columbia University’s\u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://journalism.columbia.edu/news/lipman-center-awards-180000-grants-reporting-abuses-us-criminal-justice-system\">\u003cem> Ira A. Lipman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> in conjunction with Arnold Ventures. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003ca id=\"reported\">\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>How We Reported This Story\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the 1990s, experts have warned that restraining someone prone, or on their stomach, can kill them. When someone is agitated, on stimulants or acting erratically, they are also more likely to die if officers use prone restraint, according to medical experts. Former police officers and criminologists say that putting someone on their side or seated after they’re handcuffed saves lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2020, Antioch police officers held Angelo Quinto down on his stomach after responding to a call from his family. His death inspired California legislation, which went into effect in 2022, that prohibits officers from using techniques such as prone restraint that “involve a substantial risk of positional asphyxia.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Newsroom and The California Reporting Project wanted to better understand how many people were dying after officers used prone restraint in the Golden State.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the passage of state law \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB71\">AB 71\u003c/a>, California law enforcement agencies submit \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">anonymized data\u003c/a> to the state Department of Justice’s Use of Force Incident Reporting database when officers seriously injure or kill people. That data contains information listing the types of force officers used and whether someone died. Currently, the data includes incidents that occurred from 2016 to 2022. Although people can die from prone restraint after being otherwise injured, we wanted to focus on cases where the cause of death was more clear. We filtered the data to incidents where someone died and officers used a control hold but did not use a gun, Taser or carotid restraint. Outside of carotid holds, the data does not distinguish between specific types of restraint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To better identify the decedents, reporters then combined the use-of-force data with data from \u003ca href=\"https://openjustice.doj.ca.gov/data\">California’s Death In-Custody\u003c/a> database. To ascertain whether officers specifically used prone restraint on those decedents, we used public record requests to obtain records and body camera footage from law enforcement agencies, district attorneys, medical examiner/coroners and oversight agencies about the incidents. We also obtained lawsuits in cases where loved ones sued local authorities. Two people reviewed those records, and an editor checked that work. We were unable to obtain enough records on four people’s deaths and excluded them from our analysis. Through our reporting, we determined five were incorrectly marked as not having been tased and removed them from our analysis. We also found that two people did not clearly die after a prone restraint and cut them from our analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, we know that this data was incomplete because it did not include Angelo Quinto. We had records showing that officers used prone restraint, so we included him in our analysis despite his not appearing in the state’s use-of-force data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Justin Feldman, principal research scientist at the \u003ca href=\"https://policingequity.org/\">Center for Policing Equity\u003c/a>, says that it’s not uncommon for prone restraint deaths to go unreported. In \u003ca href=\"https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/35083738/FELDMAN-DISSERTATION-2018.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y\">a study\u003c/a>, he found that in \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/11/police-killings-counted-harvard-study\">more than half the cases when police kill someone, it’s not documented on the death certificate\u003c/a> and so may not be properly recorded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Feldman said the “number one predictor” of misreported deaths was when officers didn’t shoot someone, such as when they used prone restraint or a Taser.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two police departments would not release police reports to the \u003cem>California Reporting Project\u003c/em> because the death investigations found the men died of other causes, such as methamphetamine toxicity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"order": 10
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"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
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"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"order": 1
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"meta": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"hidden-brain": {
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"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"meta": {
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
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"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
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"meta": {
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"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "pbs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
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"order": 14
},
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