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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/novato\">Novato city workers\u003c/a> walked off the job on Tuesday over what they believe are unfair labor practices and a deepening staffing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Employees skipped scheduled shifts at the Novato Gymnastics Center and Margaret Todd Senior Center, maintenance crews didn’t report to job sites and building inspections weren’t completed, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/labor\">Service Employees International Union Local 1021\u003c/a>, which represents the striking workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead, dozens of the employees gathered at city hall, donning the union’s purple shirts and protesting the city’s lack of investment in its departments, which they say are sorely understaffed and underresourced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We love our jobs. We don’t want to go on strike. But we have to hold the City of Novato accountable to the community, its employees and its fiscal commitments to public services,” said Perry Siu, who works as a recreation supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In November, the city in northern Marin County approved Measure M — a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/elections/results/marin/measures#measure-m\">0.75% sales tax increase\u003c/a> to generate about $10 million in additional city-controlled revenue each year — meant to offset a growing budget deficit and boost funding for public safety, infrastructure repairs and maintenance at parks and other public facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12050954\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12050954\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Public servants strike in front of the Novato City Hall on Aug. 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The city also said it would invest the cash in roles previously eliminated due to budget constraints during the pandemic and into salary increases to improve employee retention. Currently, one in five city workers has been employed for less than a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Retailers implemented the new sales tax rate in April, and revenue became available to the city this month, but despite these changes, the union said promised improvements to their wages and city infrastructure aren’t being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just aren’t seeing that at the bargaining table,” Tiffany Porter, a recreation and aquatics supervisor with the Parks, Recreation & Community Services Department, told KQED from the picket line on Tuesday.[aside postID=news_12050138 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/HospiceStrike3.jpg']That “is extremely frustrating when we spent our nights and weekends out there educating the community about Measure M, and it did pass,” she continued. Porter said she and other SEIU employees canvassed in the lead up to November’s election, rallying support for the measure that ultimately passed with more than 57% of the vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, the Novato City Council approved new labor agreements with four of its employee groups reflecting promises made in Measure M, including an 11% salary increase over three years and greater discounts for employees on city park and recreation programming. Those agreements affect about 31% of staff, but negotiations with the city’s other three unions — SEIU 1021 and Novato Police and Police Managers’ associations — are ongoing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SEIU spokesperson Ian Lee said in a statement on Monday that 98% of the union’s bargaining unit voted in favor of the strike last week since the City Council was “refusing to follow through on their promise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The City Council said in a statement midday Tuesday that it has offered all SEIU employees 11% raises over the next three years, and some even larger increases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Despite multiple attempts to meet with SEIU over the past month, SEIU has chosen to prematurely strike instead of lawfully continuing negotiations,” the statement said. “We urge SEIU to return to the table in good faith so we can reach a fair and competitive agreement for Novato employees and stay focused on delivering high-quality services to the Novato community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The City Council said it is working with staff to ensure there are minimal disruptions to city services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/novato\">Novato city workers\u003c/a> walked off the job on Tuesday over what they believe are unfair labor practices and a deepening staffing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Employees skipped scheduled shifts at the Novato Gymnastics Center and Margaret Todd Senior Center, maintenance crews didn’t report to job sites and building inspections weren’t completed, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/labor\">Service Employees International Union Local 1021\u003c/a>, which represents the striking workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead, dozens of the employees gathered at city hall, donning the union’s purple shirts and protesting the city’s lack of investment in its departments, which they say are sorely understaffed and underresourced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We love our jobs. We don’t want to go on strike. But we have to hold the City of Novato accountable to the community, its employees and its fiscal commitments to public services,” said Perry Siu, who works as a recreation supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In November, the city in northern Marin County approved Measure M — a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/elections/results/marin/measures#measure-m\">0.75% sales tax increase\u003c/a> to generate about $10 million in additional city-controlled revenue each year — meant to offset a growing budget deficit and boost funding for public safety, infrastructure repairs and maintenance at parks and other public facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12050954\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12050954\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/250805-NOVATO-STRIKE-MD-07-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Public servants strike in front of the Novato City Hall on Aug. 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The city also said it would invest the cash in roles previously eliminated due to budget constraints during the pandemic and into salary increases to improve employee retention. Currently, one in five city workers has been employed for less than a year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Retailers implemented the new sales tax rate in April, and revenue became available to the city this month, but despite these changes, the union said promised improvements to their wages and city infrastructure aren’t being implemented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just aren’t seeing that at the bargaining table,” Tiffany Porter, a recreation and aquatics supervisor with the Parks, Recreation & Community Services Department, told KQED from the picket line on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>That “is extremely frustrating when we spent our nights and weekends out there educating the community about Measure M, and it did pass,” she continued. Porter said she and other SEIU employees canvassed in the lead up to November’s election, rallying support for the measure that ultimately passed with more than 57% of the vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, the Novato City Council approved new labor agreements with four of its employee groups reflecting promises made in Measure M, including an 11% salary increase over three years and greater discounts for employees on city park and recreation programming. Those agreements affect about 31% of staff, but negotiations with the city’s other three unions — SEIU 1021 and Novato Police and Police Managers’ associations — are ongoing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SEIU spokesperson Ian Lee said in a statement on Monday that 98% of the union’s bargaining unit voted in favor of the strike last week since the City Council was “refusing to follow through on their promise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The City Council said in a statement midday Tuesday that it has offered all SEIU employees 11% raises over the next three years, and some even larger increases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Despite multiple attempts to meet with SEIU over the past month, SEIU has chosen to prematurely strike instead of lawfully continuing negotiations,” the statement said. “We urge SEIU to return to the table in good faith so we can reach a fair and competitive agreement for Novato employees and stay focused on delivering high-quality services to the Novato community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The City Council said it is working with staff to ensure there are minimal disruptions to city services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Falling behind on rent is the primary reason that people are evicted. So how do you keep people from falling behind in the first place? Help them pay their rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this final episode of the season, we’ll look at the promise, the problems and the history of Section 8, as well as the push for guaranteed income.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch5 id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1525875908&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/h5>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>THE RENT EATS FIRST [TRANSCRIPT]\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN BALDASSARI, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kemanie and his wife were like a lot of young couples just starting out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was the early 2000s. He had recently started his career as a carpenter. She was a teacher. They were both in their mid-20s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But even with two incomes, they could barely make ends meet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were living in a, like, a small, tiny little one-bedroom apartment with roaches, like basically a little small ghetto.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Then their son was born. His wife stopped working to take care of him. And their budget got even tighter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And things was hard, but we started falling behind on rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How far behind were you on rent at that time?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was $4,000 behind on rent at the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY SOLOMON, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They were living where they both grew up in Marin County, just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At that point in time there was no way for us to survive in Marin County.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It didn’t help that it’s one of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.california.com/the-most-expensive-counties-in-the-us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">wealthiest counties in the country\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Or that their landlord was planning on selling the apartment they were renting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They couldn’t figure out how they were going to pay the back rent and still have money for a deposit to move somewhere new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We would have been homeless\u003c/span>. You know, it would have been really bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They thought about moving in with one of their parents or leaving Marin County altogether. Then, they got some good news. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we got it, we were out doing something — running an errand — and on the way back, my wife got the email.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They got what some have called a “golden ticket” — a Section 8 housing voucher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Section 8 is a federal program that helps low-income people afford rent on the private market.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kemanie and his wife had put in their application nearly \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a decade\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ago. And they’d been stuck on a waiting list that never seemed to budge. When they finally got the news, it was like winning the lottery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We both looked at each other. And was, like, yes. I mean, it was like perfect timing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was a huge opportunity for them. With Section 8, they would only have to pay 30% of their income towards rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KEMANIE\u003c/strong>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was an epiphany for us because it was like, life can go on now, like we — there’s a path forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They wouldn’t fall behind on bills. And they’d have a chance to catch up. They’d have some room to breathe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: So, they started looking for a new place to live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we searched and searched and searched, and went and visited and talked to people, and knowing that we had the housing voucher, we thought it was going to be easier because it was a guarantee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: A guarantee because most of the rent money comes from the federal government. It’s usually deposited straight into the landlord’s bank account.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we found out that it was more of a hindrance than anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: It’s what most Section 8 tenants discover — the voucher is not only hard to get, it’s hard to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These problems aren’t new. And neither is Section 8. But over the past half century, it’s become the No. 1 way we subsidize rent in this country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rents climb higher, advocates say we need to fix the problems with Section 8 and expand it. To make it work for more people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. From KQED, this is Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, the final chapter in our series on evictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How to keep people from getting evicted? Help pay the rent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song ends.)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908148\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908148\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kemanie holds the keys to his Novato home. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kemanie and his wife have had a housing voucher for nearly two decades now. And anytime they’ve had to move, it’s always the same thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They apply to dozens of places, visit a ton of apartments and get the same answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And every single time it was like, no, nope, no, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It didn’t seem to matter that they had good references from past landlords, even letters from neighbors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As soon as Section 8 comes up, you see like a glaze go over their eyes like, OK, I got to deal with this conversation and move on to the next person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Some landlords told them point-blank they wouldn’t accept Section 8, even though that’s illegal in California and a handful of other states. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those laws are hard to enforce, though. And landlords find all sorts of ways of getting around them — like requiring a credit score of 700 or above.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it was kind of, smile in our face, “Oh, yeah, but your credit score is low.” But the bottom line is most people are on Section 8 because they’re having issues financially and their credit is not very good.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Or, landlords would ask them to have an income that’s at least three times the rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, if I make three times the monthly amount, I’m buying my own place. P\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">eriod, that’s it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Other times there was an online application, but no box to check to say they had Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right? And you don’t even get to talk to anybody or even see anybody or state your case. And it doesn’t say you have Section 8 on the app, so you can’t fill that out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Usually, though, they just never heard back. There was no explanation at all.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, Kemanie and his wife tried harder. They wrote cover letters. And organized all their references and documentation into nice, neat little folders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We would put a little picture, a nice little cute picture of our Black family for people to accept and like and maybe, you know, feel sorry for us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was frustrating and stressful. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To Kemanie, it felt racist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it really felt like redlining. Is, that’s how I felt about it, because they’re just like, no, you know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Racial discrimination can be hard to prove, but a recent audit found it’s a pervasive problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California conducted paired tests of white and Black renters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And found that \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.scribd.com/document/398920895/raceaudit2016-17?secret_password=A5Sg4qdij47q2erNlj3X#fullscreen&from_embed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nearly 70% of the time\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, landlords in the county where Kemanie lives refused to rent to Black tenants, or used more subtle behaviors, like leaving someone on hold for hours, never calling back or steering Black applicants away from certain neighborhoods. \u003ca href=\"https://www.scribd.com/document/504967414/no-and-soi-audit-2019-20-report?secret_password=wY0jrrhNpcBCBhEVm0zi#download&from_embed\">More than half the time\u003c/a>, landlords did the same for voucher holders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To Kemanie, this was not news. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He and his wife had lived their whole lives in Marin County — a community where more than 70% of the residents are white, and where the average household makes over $115,000 a year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s hard to explain it to other people. We’re Black in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every day, especially also for me, being a Black man and being very intimidating to a lot of people. Every single day, when I meet somebody, I got to put a smile on my face to like, look, I’m not threatening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Holding a Section 8 voucher in his hands worsens the daily strain of trying to find acceptance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And it felt like that times 10, because this time we’re looking for everyone’s approval and it’s — we’re trying to dress us up as the best we can to get accepted by people that we know maybe aren’t racist, but just aren’t as inclined to want us to be there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was very, very, very hard. And that was, I think, probably the most defeating part of the whole thing for us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MOLLY\u003c/strong>: This discrimination is why we aren’t using Kemanie’s full name. Or his wife’s name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of looking for a place to live has been so traumatic, they’re afraid to do anything that might hurt their chances of finding a home the next time they have to start looking. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Their struggles with Section 8 highlight two of the program’s biggest failures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/94146/trends-in-housing-problems-and-federal-housing-assistance.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">1 in 5\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who qualify for rental assistance actually receives it. Meaning most people are stuck on waitlists for years — \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/long-waitlists-for-housing-vouchers-show-pressing-unmet-need-for-assistance\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">even decades\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when people do get off those waitlists, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/publications/pdf/sec8success_1.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">roughly a third\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lose \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">their vouchers because they can’t find any landlord willing to take them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s partly because there’s an unfair stigma around Section 8, even if it isn’t backed up by evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/eva_rosen?lang=en\">Eva Rosen\u003c/a> is an assistant professor at Georgetown University, and she \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172569/the-voucher-promise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">wrote a book on Section 8\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA ROSEN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Landlords sometimes don’t want to rent to big families. They often worry that voucher-holders might be more likely to do damage to the home \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">or that they might be noisier tenants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, none of this is really backed up by any kind of data, but the stigma itself is very real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This unfair stigma is made worse when you add in racism — the kind that Kemanie and his family felt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nationally, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/assthsg.html#2009-2021_query\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">about two-thirds of voucher holders\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are people of color.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In my research with landlords, they say things like, well, I couldn’t rent to a Black person in this neighborhood because all of my other tenants are white and they would not like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think racism is a big part of the reticence that we see from landlords.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite all these barriers, Kemanie and his family \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">were \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">able to find a place to live. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’ve been at their current home for three and a half years now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in the world of Section 8, it’s kind of a unicorn. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a single-family home on a quiet cul-de-sac in Novato, a wealthy suburb north of San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is literally everything we could ask for. This is — we’re so incredibly happy here right now in the place that we have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: It’s got three bedrooms, a two-car garage, and a big, tree-lined backyard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are parks nearby and great schools for their kids. And, they feel safe here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Safety at school, safety coming home from school, you know, safety on the weekends, playing with their friends, you know, all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/where-families-with-children-use-housing-vouchers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">14% of voucher holders\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> live in affluent neighborhoods like this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kemanie and his wife know just how rare it is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like we’re living in a dream that we know are about to wake up from. We know at some point someone’s going to shake us and be like, “Hey, wake up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That wake-up call could come in just a few months.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Their landlord told them they’re thinking about selling. And their current lease lasts only until September. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, there are no guarantees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s all up in the air. Everything’s very unsettled for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When that time comes, they’ll have to find another landlord willing to take them. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They know from experience it won’t be easy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To make the system better for tenants, we need to get more landlords on board. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll tell you how, coming up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908149\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908149\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A ‘Welcome’ sign hangs by the door to the home Kemanie shares with his family in Novato. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: When the Pruitt-Igoe public housing development in St. Louis, Missouri, opened in 1954, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zFIg8N9Rw\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it was celebrated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a marvel of modern architecture: 33 towers, each 11 stories tall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zFIg8N9Rw\">\u003cb>\u003cem>COMMERCIAL FOR PRUITT-IGOE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> With indoor plumbing, electric lights, fresh-plastered walls and the rest of the conveniences that are expected in the 20th century. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But just a decade later, it was falling apart and had become a symbol of government mismanagement and neglect, drawing national attention for its horrible living conditions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Take \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-cfjqh1sSY&t=23s\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this newscast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, from 1968: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-cfjqh1sSY&t=23s\">\u003cb>\u003cem>KMOX NEWS REPORT\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When the temperatures dropped below freezing this week, water lines in several of the Pruitt-Igoe apartment buildings broke and the subsequent flow of water turned into ice. At 2311 Dixon, a sewer line is broken, and now raw sewage bubbles out of the ground like a malevolent spring. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: On \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.greyscape.com/modernism-was-framed-the-truth-about-pruitt-igoe/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March 16, 1972\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the first of its 33 towers was demolished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Sounds: A building is being demolished; Pruitt-Igoe implodes.)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=738WpY2_JV8\">\u003cb>PRUITT-IGOE IMPLOSION\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Not only St. Louis, but the rest of the nation is viewing with great interest the results of this experiment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> President Richard Nixon saw the growing frustration with public housing failures like Pruitt-Igoe. And so he took a turn towards the private market instead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two years after that demolition, Nixon introduced Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, here’s Georgetown University professor Eva Rosen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re not having to build public housing, you’re not having to maintain or renovate a public housing stock. And so it is this sort of very, in theory, economically efficient tool.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Under Nixon, Section 8 was just a pilot program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But by the 1990s, the stage was set for it to grow. Public housing had gotten a real bad rap, and that’s when President Bill Clinton really ramped up Section 8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today I had the honor of signing the budget for programs to help the homeless to give housing vouchers to empower the poor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> His administration changed the name from Section 8 to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/phr/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Housing Choice Vouchers\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And actually in the title, you can very much notice this emphasis on choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: Eva says that reflects one of the goals for the program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hope was that people could use their vouchers to move to more affluent neighborhoods. Neighborhoods with more resources, better schools and more jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: Public housing had become extremely segregated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By 1989, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal//Publications/pdf/HUD-5961.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nearly 70% of the households \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of the residents were people of color. Mostly women-led, Black and Latinx households.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And most of the housing developments were also in segregated and impoverished neighborhoods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that was causing all kinds of problems. And it was leaving public housing residents with very little choice about where they ended up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Eva says the program hasn’t lived up to its promise of giving voucher holders a real choice of where to live. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a lot of that comes down to landlords: when \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">choose to participate, and why.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we introduced these private landlords into this system, we sort of just assumed that they would play along, that they would want to participate. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that tends not always to be the case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">some \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">landlords, Section 8 works really well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Eugene Zinchik and his brother own a real estate and property management company in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he’s been renting to voucher holders for about six or seven years now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b> \u003cstrong>ZINCHIK\u003c/strong>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s more stability in knowing that your rent checks are going to be coming, you know, whatever it is that happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During the pandemic, most of Eugene’s Section 8 tenants stayed put, and their rent checks kept flowing in. But a lot of his tenants who didn’t have vouchers — they left.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even without the coronavirus, Eugene says voucher holders just stick around longer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s less turnover for a landlord. If there’s less turnover, there’s no rent that they’re losing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: But Eugene says the\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> real \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">benefit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to landlords \u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Urban-Landlords-HCV-Program.pdf\">depends a lot on where the property is\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He points to a new building he’s managing in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. Even though he hasn’t found a tenant yet, Eugene already knows it’ll be someone on Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of San Francisco is extremely, extremely expensive. Bayview is still semi-affordable for maybe, still, for a blue-collar family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: He says r\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ents here are about $1,000 lower than in other parts of the city. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But landlords can actually \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mdesmond/files/desmondperkins.cc_.2016.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">charge a Section 8 \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> than they would with someone without a voucher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when the government decides how much it’s willing to pay for each voucher, it doesn’t vary the amounts by neighborhood. It sets one standard for the whole city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s a pretty good deal for landlords in places like Bayview.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in Bayview, in my experience, the amounts that Section 8 pays are pretty much competitive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But landlords in high-rent places could actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lose \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In at least half the neighborhoods in San Francisco, Section 8 what they pay per unit is just not compatible with the market rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: Eva says those incentives have created an unintended consequence: Most Section 8 tenants are trapped in low-income neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is where you start to understand how the program, which was designed and very much hoped to provide tenants choice, actually creates sort of an opposite scenario where they’re being pushed away from the kind of neighborhoods that they might want to end up in and forced into neighborhoods that they don’t necessarily want to be in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Eugene says even when landlords \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">want \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to rent to a voucher holder, it’s not that easy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to jump through a lot of hoops. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What kind of hoops? Well, let’s take a look.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">First, there are the forms. For both tenants and landlords. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, forms could be scary if you’ve never seen this form before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Let’s say you do fill them out correctly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For about two weeks, you probably hear nothing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, hopefully, you get a call for an inspection. The housing authority needs to make sure these buildings are up to code. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For that, you’ll need to take the day off work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times you get a four-hour window for the inspector to come in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And if you have any questions, don’t try to get anyone on the phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just talking to somebody, you’d be waiting on hold for an hour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Eugene says it’s like dealing with the DMV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, we’ve all been there, but you know, we don’t really want to do that unless we have to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The federal Department of Housing and Urban Development held \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PIH/documents/ListeningForumsPublicSummary012320.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">listening sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with property owners across the country back in 2018. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the sessions were taken up by complaints. Eighty-two\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> percent said they had bad experiences dealing with their local housing authority. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of their biggest issues: how long it takes to sign up a new tenant. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole process can take a month or two — time spent without collecting rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a landlord to just sit and wait for that tenant is not, is not reasonable, especially if it’s an individual like a mom-and-pop type of shop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do we improve Section 8? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For tenants to have more choice — you know, the original goal of the program — you need more landlords with properties in more neighborhoods. Here’s Eva Rosen: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we think about landlord participation, I think we need to think about carrots and sticks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That means tougher laws to prevent landlords from discriminating against Section 8 tenants. And better enforcement. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s sort of like a stick, right? It’s a slap on the wrist. It’s a no, you’re not allowed to do this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And, then there’s the carrot: more voucher money for properties in wealthier neighborhoods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something the federal government is already trying. They’re basing the rent on the ZIP code, instead of one standard for the whole city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because there’s no way a landlord is going to participate in the program if they’re getting less rent than they would get from a market tenant, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An early test of the program \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/SAFMR-Interim-Report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">showed it worked\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. More landlords in affluent areas opened their doors to Section 8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But in a few cities, there was a downside, too. Some landlords in low-income neighborhoods stopped renting to voucher holders. That led to a drop in the number of homes available there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, the results were still promising enough that they’ve expanded it to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/a-guide-to-small-area-fair-market-rents-safmrs\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two dozen cities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908157\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908157\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eugene Zinchik poses inside a property he manages in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. \u003ccite>(Erin Baldassari/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Another way to recruit more landlords? Cut the red tape. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Give those individuals that have the voucher more say of what they’re able to do. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Give the power to that individual to sign on their own behalf to take the place or not take the place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After all, Section 8 was supposed to be about choice. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Eugene says, let people make their own. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: A different solution that \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">all about choice. And cold, hard cash. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When the coronavirus hit — and the economy shut down — one thing was clear: People needed cash. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the federal government stepped in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzMNV2qH2IA\">\u003cb>WCNC\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stimulus checks are rolling in for millions of Americans today. About 80 million people are expected to receive their payments today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyfKmBfRi8\">\u003cem>\u003cb>NBC\u003c/b>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, these direct payments are what everyone is talking about because 90% of American households should be getting some money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, the idea of giving out free money in this country was kind of a hard sell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/nataliefoster?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Natalie Foster\u003c/a> is the president and co-founder of the Economic Security Project. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE FOSTER\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the pandemic hit and it became clear that cash was the currency of urgency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it wasn’t just stimulus checks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pandemic unemployment insurance was important for supporting people in the midst of job loss, expanding tax credits like the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These were all things that the government did.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of families, that extra money was a lifeline. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite a recession and a global pandemic, poverty in this country actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">decreased\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We saw a decrease in poverty, and that is because the government realized that poverty is a policy choice and we could make different choices. And so the politics of the moment allowed for us to make a different choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We also made a choice to keep more people housed, with eviction moratoriums and rent relief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For progressives and others, those pandemic-era programs were a golden opportunity t\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">o tackle poverty and housing insecurity on a grand scale. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And test an idea that’s been gaining steam over the past couple years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>NEWS CLIPS\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: It’s an idea known as guaranteed basic income.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A monthly, no-strings-attached cash payment given directly to individuals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A guaranteed income. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Basically, if you want to solve poverty, give people money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s how it would work: The money would come from the federal government, ideally in the form of a regular, monthly payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The amount wouldn’t make you rich, but it could help pay for your housing, your food or whatever else you need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: F\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">or all the excitement around guaranteed income today, it’s not actually a new idea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thomas Paine argued for it way back in the 18th century. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And over the years, its supporters have come from all over the political spectrum.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From the Black Panthers, to President Richard Nixon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>RECORDING OF PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON DISCUSSING GUARANTEED INCOME\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What I am proposing is that the federal government build a foundation under the income of every American family with dependent children that cannot care for itself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From libertarian economist Milton Friedman to civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems to me that the civil rights movement must now begin to organize for the guaranteed annual income, begin to organize people all over our country and mobilize forces, so that we can bring to the attention of our nation, this need and this something which I believe will go a long, long way toward dealing with the Negros’ economic problem and the economic problem with many other poor people confronting our nation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Alaska’s been doing this \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pfd.alaska.gov/Division-Info/historical-timeline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">since the 1980s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, paying out oil dividends to all its residents — on average, about $1,600 a year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But more recently, about 90 guaranteed-income experiments have popped up across the country. Most were inspired by one city: Stockton, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL TUBBS\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hello, my name is \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MichaelDTubbs?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Michael Tubbs\u003c/a>. I am the former mayor of the city of Stockton, California. I’m the founder of \u003ca href=\"https://www.mayorsforagi.org/\">Mayors for a Guaranteed Income\u003c/a> and of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/02/former-stockton-mayor-launches-nonprofit-to-end-poverty-in-california/\">End Poverty in California.\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael led Stockton’s guaranteed-income program back in 2019. He says a lot of the issues that came across his desk all came back to the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Issues of poverty and lack and pervasive poverty and generational poverty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stockton was the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jul/28/subprimecrisis.useconomy\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">foreclosure capital\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of the country during the Great Recession. It \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy/stockton-california-files-for-bankruptcy-idUSBRE85S05120120629\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">declared bankruptcy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in 2012. And today, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/about-seed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">about a quarter\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of its population lives below the poverty line. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael wanted to bring a guaranteed income to Stockton because the old way of addressing poverty wasn’t working. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The programs we have now — like welfare or food stamps or housing vouchers — they have a lot of rules and regulations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11882364\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11882364\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michael Tubbs, former mayor of Stockton, is seen at his office in Stockton on Feb. 7, 2020. As mayor, with the help of the Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration, he implemented an 18-month trial of universal basic income for 125 residents of his city. The concept has recently been gaining ground. \u003ccite>(Nick Otto/AFP via Getty Images))\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re on welfare, you have to spend so much time being with case managers, filling out forms, doing this, doing that, which robs you of the ability to do all the other things you need to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Guaranteed-income programs don’t require all that micromanagement, which frees up people’s time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, they have another benefit: You can spend the money however you need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether it’s on new tires, a transmission, a new washer and dryer, school clothes, a wedding, going to visit your parents you haven’t seen in a while.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people in Stockton were given the choice of how to use the $500 they got each month, they tended to spend it on food and other essentials.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some also used it to help pay for housing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were able to sort of save up for a down payment to move to safer living conditions. Or some people use it to cope with sort of small rises in rent that occur: $50 here or $100 here, $125 here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Researchers in Stockton didn’t look specifically at the impact of a guaranteed income on evictions. But the small stipend could help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/12/upshot/eviction-prevention-solutions-government.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most people get evicted for $600 or less\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to a New York Times analysis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just knowing you have enough money to get to the end of the month also goes a long way for your mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Folks who received the guaranteed income went from elevated levels of stress to regular levels of stress. And that just was like, wow, like money really sort of affects health and mental health and well-being and how we show up in the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But probably one of the biggest findings from Stockton: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It challenged a widely held criticism of guaranteed income, that it would cause people to stop working. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The money actually had the opposite effect. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/employment\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People worked \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/employment\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">12% went from part-time to full-time work\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That’s more than double the control group. And participants were less likely to be unemployed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I wasn’t surprised, but I’m glad the data validated this belief that that $500 was not going to make anyone stop working, that people still worked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael says that’s because it wasn’t enough to live on. But it gave people some breathing room. It allowed them to quit one of their part-time jobs and look for full-time work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or go back to school to change careers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It allowed people the chance to live. And live a life, and live a life beyond just going through the motions and working and going to sleep and working, going to sleep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, critics say you shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from one small pilot program — with only 125 participants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rolling out a guaranteed income nationally could have a much bigger impact on the economy. And many worry that all that extra cash would only cause prices to rise, setting off higher inflation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guaranteed income also does nothing to solve a larger problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thing we \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm#:~:text=%2D%2DHousing%20expenditures%20increased%203.5,dwellings%20were%20down%200.5%20percent.\">spend the most money on is housing\u003c/a>. And that just keeps going up. Taking a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/10/home-prices-are-now-rising-much-faster-than-incomes-studies-show.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">bigger and bigger piece\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> out of our paychecks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guaranteed income is great, but we don’t want all that money to be spent on housing because people have other needs, right? So I think a guaranteed income is a powerful tool. But like any toolbox, you need more than one tool to really get the job done. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Guaranteed income can’t solve poverty on its own. But Michael says it’s a good place to start if we want to solve other big problems, like evictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Evictions perpetuate inequality, a\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd they push more people into poverty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When you’re evicted, you lose your neighborhood, your school, your support network. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can be trapped in a cycle of debt, even become homeless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the solutions are within our reach, and people are already pushing for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Activists in Fresno are fighting for a fair shot in court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tenants in Antioch are demanding more protection against rising rents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And women like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11905386/why-black-women-are-more-likely-to-face-eviction\">Jean [Kendrick, from Episode 2]\u003c/a> are sharing their stories and calling attention to inequities we can’t unsee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Evictions reflect our housing system: who reaps the profit and who suffers the pain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But we have an opportunity to make the system more fair, to invest in people’s success, not just for a few, but for all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The question is, will we take it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Molly Solomon. Thank you so much for listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts — and share it with a friend!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ve got one more thing that we’re working on. It’s a bonus episode full of stories from you. That’ll drop in a few weeks, so stay tuned. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sold Out is a production of KQED. This episode was written and reported by us: Molly Solomon and Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Adhiti Bandlamudi produced this episode. Kyana Moghadam is our senior producer. Brendan Willard is our sound engineer. And Rob Speight wrote our theme song.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Natalia Aldana is our senior engagement producer and Gerald Fermin is our engagement intern.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to our editor, Erika Kelly. Additional editing from Jessica Placzek and Otis Taylor Jr.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We couldn’t have made this season without Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Holly Kernan, Erika Aguilar and Vinnee Tong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Let us know what you think of the show by \u003ca href=\"https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/6755022/f959eb5782fc\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">taking a quick survey\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "To many renters, a Section 8 housing voucher is seen as a \"golden ticket,\" a federal subsidy that ensures only 30% of their income goes to rent. But actually using it is a struggle. We talk to renters and landlords about why.",
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"title": "Reknitting the Safety Net: Help Pay the Rent | KQED",
"description": "To many renters, a Section 8 housing voucher is seen as a "golden ticket," a federal subsidy that ensures only 30% of their income goes to rent. But actually using it is a struggle. We talk to renters and landlords about why.",
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"headline": "Reknitting the Safety Net: Help Pay the Rent",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Falling behind on rent is the primary reason that people are evicted. So how do you keep people from falling behind in the first place? Help them pay their rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this final episode of the season, we’ll look at the promise, the problems and the history of Section 8, as well as the push for guaranteed income.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch5 id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1525875908&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/h5>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>THE RENT EATS FIRST [TRANSCRIPT]\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN BALDASSARI, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kemanie and his wife were like a lot of young couples just starting out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was the early 2000s. He had recently started his career as a carpenter. She was a teacher. They were both in their mid-20s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But even with two incomes, they could barely make ends meet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We were living in a, like, a small, tiny little one-bedroom apartment with roaches, like basically a little small ghetto.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Then their son was born. His wife stopped working to take care of him. And their budget got even tighter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And things was hard, but we started falling behind on rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How far behind were you on rent at that time?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I was $4,000 behind on rent at the time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY SOLOMON, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They were living where they both grew up in Marin County, just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At that point in time there was no way for us to survive in Marin County.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It didn’t help that it’s one of the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.california.com/the-most-expensive-counties-in-the-us/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">wealthiest counties in the country\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Or that their landlord was planning on selling the apartment they were renting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They couldn’t figure out how they were going to pay the back rent and still have money for a deposit to move somewhere new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We would have been homeless\u003c/span>. You know, it would have been really bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They thought about moving in with one of their parents or leaving Marin County altogether. Then, they got some good news. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we got it, we were out doing something — running an errand — and on the way back, my wife got the email.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They got what some have called a “golden ticket” — a Section 8 housing voucher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Section 8 is a federal program that helps low-income people afford rent on the private market.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kemanie and his wife had put in their application nearly \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a decade\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> ago. And they’d been stuck on a waiting list that never seemed to budge. When they finally got the news, it was like winning the lottery. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We both looked at each other. And was, like, yes. I mean, it was like perfect timing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was a huge opportunity for them. With Section 8, they would only have to pay 30% of their income towards rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KEMANIE\u003c/strong>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was an epiphany for us because it was like, life can go on now, like we — there’s a path forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They wouldn’t fall behind on bills. And they’d have a chance to catch up. They’d have some room to breathe. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: So, they started looking for a new place to live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we searched and searched and searched, and went and visited and talked to people, and knowing that we had the housing voucher, we thought it was going to be easier because it was a guarantee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: A guarantee because most of the rent money comes from the federal government. It’s usually deposited straight into the landlord’s bank account.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we found out that it was more of a hindrance than anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: It’s what most Section 8 tenants discover — the voucher is not only hard to get, it’s hard to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These problems aren’t new. And neither is Section 8. But over the past half century, it’s become the No. 1 way we subsidize rent in this country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rents climb higher, advocates say we need to fix the problems with Section 8 and expand it. To make it work for more people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. From KQED, this is Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, the final chapter in our series on evictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How to keep people from getting evicted? Help pay the rent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song ends.)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908148\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908148\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54286_009_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kemanie holds the keys to his Novato home. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cdiv class=\"mceTemp\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kemanie and his wife have had a housing voucher for nearly two decades now. And anytime they’ve had to move, it’s always the same thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They apply to dozens of places, visit a ton of apartments and get the same answers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And every single time it was like, no, nope, no, no.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It didn’t seem to matter that they had good references from past landlords, even letters from neighbors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As soon as Section 8 comes up, you see like a glaze go over their eyes like, OK, I got to deal with this conversation and move on to the next person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Some landlords told them point-blank they wouldn’t accept Section 8, even though that’s illegal in California and a handful of other states. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those laws are hard to enforce, though. And landlords find all sorts of ways of getting around them — like requiring a credit score of 700 or above.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it was kind of, smile in our face, “Oh, yeah, but your credit score is low.” But the bottom line is most people are on Section 8 because they’re having issues financially and their credit is not very good.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Or, landlords would ask them to have an income that’s at least three times the rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like, if I make three times the monthly amount, I’m buying my own place. P\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">eriod, that’s it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Other times there was an online application, but no box to check to say they had Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right? And you don’t even get to talk to anybody or even see anybody or state your case. And it doesn’t say you have Section 8 on the app, so you can’t fill that out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Usually, though, they just never heard back. There was no explanation at all.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, Kemanie and his wife tried harder. They wrote cover letters. And organized all their references and documentation into nice, neat little folders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We would put a little picture, a nice little cute picture of our Black family for people to accept and like and maybe, you know, feel sorry for us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was frustrating and stressful. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To Kemanie, it felt racist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it really felt like redlining. Is, that’s how I felt about it, because they’re just like, no, you know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Racial discrimination can be hard to prove, but a recent audit found it’s a pervasive problem.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California conducted paired tests of white and Black renters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And found that \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.scribd.com/document/398920895/raceaudit2016-17?secret_password=A5Sg4qdij47q2erNlj3X#fullscreen&from_embed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nearly 70% of the time\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, landlords in the county where Kemanie lives refused to rent to Black tenants, or used more subtle behaviors, like leaving someone on hold for hours, never calling back or steering Black applicants away from certain neighborhoods. \u003ca href=\"https://www.scribd.com/document/504967414/no-and-soi-audit-2019-20-report?secret_password=wY0jrrhNpcBCBhEVm0zi#download&from_embed\">More than half the time\u003c/a>, landlords did the same for voucher holders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To Kemanie, this was not news. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He and his wife had lived their whole lives in Marin County — a community where more than 70% of the residents are white, and where the average household makes over $115,000 a year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s hard to explain it to other people. We’re Black in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every day, especially also for me, being a Black man and being very intimidating to a lot of people. Every single day, when I meet somebody, I got to put a smile on my face to like, look, I’m not threatening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Holding a Section 8 voucher in his hands worsens the daily strain of trying to find acceptance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And it felt like that times 10, because this time we’re looking for everyone’s approval and it’s — we’re trying to dress us up as the best we can to get accepted by people that we know maybe aren’t racist, but just aren’t as inclined to want us to be there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was very, very, very hard. And that was, I think, probably the most defeating part of the whole thing for us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MOLLY\u003c/strong>: This discrimination is why we aren’t using Kemanie’s full name. Or his wife’s name.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The experience of looking for a place to live has been so traumatic, they’re afraid to do anything that might hurt their chances of finding a home the next time they have to start looking. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Their struggles with Section 8 highlight two of the program’s biggest failures.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/94146/trends-in-housing-problems-and-federal-housing-assistance.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">1 in 5\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who qualify for rental assistance actually receives it. Meaning most people are stuck on waitlists for years — \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/long-waitlists-for-housing-vouchers-show-pressing-unmet-need-for-assistance\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">even decades\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when people do get off those waitlists, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/publications/pdf/sec8success_1.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">roughly a third\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lose \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">their vouchers because they can’t find any landlord willing to take them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s partly because there’s an unfair stigma around Section 8, even if it isn’t backed up by evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/eva_rosen?lang=en\">Eva Rosen\u003c/a> is an assistant professor at Georgetown University, and she \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172569/the-voucher-promise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">wrote a book on Section 8\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA ROSEN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Landlords sometimes don’t want to rent to big families. They often worry that voucher-holders might be more likely to do damage to the home \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">or that they might be noisier tenants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And again, none of this is really backed up by any kind of data, but the stigma itself is very real.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This unfair stigma is made worse when you add in racism — the kind that Kemanie and his family felt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nationally, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/assthsg.html#2009-2021_query\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">about two-thirds of voucher holders\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are people of color.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In my research with landlords, they say things like, well, I couldn’t rent to a Black person in this neighborhood because all of my other tenants are white and they would not like that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think racism is a big part of the reticence that we see from landlords.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite all these barriers, Kemanie and his family \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">were \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">able to find a place to live. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’ve been at their current home for three and a half years now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And in the world of Section 8, it’s kind of a unicorn. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a single-family home on a quiet cul-de-sac in Novato, a wealthy suburb north of San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is literally everything we could ask for. This is — we’re so incredibly happy here right now in the place that we have. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: It’s got three bedrooms, a two-car garage, and a big, tree-lined backyard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are parks nearby and great schools for their kids. And, they feel safe here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Safety at school, safety coming home from school, you know, safety on the weekends, playing with their friends, you know, all of that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Only \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/where-families-with-children-use-housing-vouchers\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">14% of voucher holders\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> live in affluent neighborhoods like this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kemanie and his wife know just how rare it is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s like we’re living in a dream that we know are about to wake up from. We know at some point someone’s going to shake us and be like, “Hey, wake up.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That wake-up call could come in just a few months.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Their landlord told them they’re thinking about selling. And their current lease lasts only until September. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, there are no guarantees.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEMANIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s all up in the air. Everything’s very unsettled for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When that time comes, they’ll have to find another landlord willing to take them. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They know from experience it won’t be easy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To make the system better for tenants, we need to get more landlords on board. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll tell you how, coming up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908149\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908149\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/RS54283_006_KQED_Kemanie_03112022-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A ‘Welcome’ sign hangs by the door to the home Kemanie shares with his family in Novato. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: When the Pruitt-Igoe public housing development in St. Louis, Missouri, opened in 1954, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zFIg8N9Rw\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it was celebrated\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> as a marvel of modern architecture: 33 towers, each 11 stories tall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zFIg8N9Rw\">\u003cb>\u003cem>COMMERCIAL FOR PRUITT-IGOE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> With indoor plumbing, electric lights, fresh-plastered walls and the rest of the conveniences that are expected in the 20th century. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But just a decade later, it was falling apart and had become a symbol of government mismanagement and neglect, drawing national attention for its horrible living conditions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Take \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-cfjqh1sSY&t=23s\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">this newscast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, from 1968: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-cfjqh1sSY&t=23s\">\u003cb>\u003cem>KMOX NEWS REPORT\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When the temperatures dropped below freezing this week, water lines in several of the Pruitt-Igoe apartment buildings broke and the subsequent flow of water turned into ice. At 2311 Dixon, a sewer line is broken, and now raw sewage bubbles out of the ground like a malevolent spring. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: On \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.greyscape.com/modernism-was-framed-the-truth-about-pruitt-igoe/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">March 16, 1972\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, the first of its 33 towers was demolished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Sounds: A building is being demolished; Pruitt-Igoe implodes.)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=738WpY2_JV8\">\u003cb>PRUITT-IGOE IMPLOSION\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Not only St. Louis, but the rest of the nation is viewing with great interest the results of this experiment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> President Richard Nixon saw the growing frustration with public housing failures like Pruitt-Igoe. And so he took a turn towards the private market instead. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Two years after that demolition, Nixon introduced Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, here’s Georgetown University professor Eva Rosen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re not having to build public housing, you’re not having to maintain or renovate a public housing stock. And so it is this sort of very, in theory, economically efficient tool.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Under Nixon, Section 8 was just a pilot program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But by the 1990s, the stage was set for it to grow. Public housing had gotten a real bad rap, and that’s when President Bill Clinton really ramped up Section 8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today I had the honor of signing the budget for programs to help the homeless to give housing vouchers to empower the poor.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> His administration changed the name from Section 8 to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/public_indian_housing/phr/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Housing Choice Vouchers\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And actually in the title, you can very much notice this emphasis on choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: Eva says that reflects one of the goals for the program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hope was that people could use their vouchers to move to more affluent neighborhoods. Neighborhoods with more resources, better schools and more jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: Public housing had become extremely segregated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By 1989, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal//Publications/pdf/HUD-5961.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nearly 70% of the households \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">of the residents were people of color. Mostly women-led, Black and Latinx households.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And most of the housing developments were also in segregated and impoverished neighborhoods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that was causing all kinds of problems. And it was leaving public housing residents with very little choice about where they ended up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Eva says the program hasn’t lived up to its promise of giving voucher holders a real choice of where to live. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a lot of that comes down to landlords: when \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">they \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">choose to participate, and why.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we introduced these private landlords into this system, we sort of just assumed that they would play along, that they would want to participate. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that tends not always to be the case.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">some \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">landlords, Section 8 works really well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Eugene Zinchik and his brother own a real estate and property management company in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And he’s been renting to voucher holders for about six or seven years now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b> \u003cstrong>ZINCHIK\u003c/strong>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s more stability in knowing that your rent checks are going to be coming, you know, whatever it is that happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">During the pandemic, most of Eugene’s Section 8 tenants stayed put, and their rent checks kept flowing in. But a lot of his tenants who didn’t have vouchers — they left.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Even without the coronavirus, Eugene says voucher holders just stick around longer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s less turnover for a landlord. If there’s less turnover, there’s no rent that they’re losing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: But Eugene says the\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> real \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">benefit\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to landlords \u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/Urban-Landlords-HCV-Program.pdf\">depends a lot on where the property is\u003c/a>.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He points to a new building he’s managing in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. Even though he hasn’t found a tenant yet, Eugene already knows it’ll be someone on Section 8. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Part of San Francisco is extremely, extremely expensive. Bayview is still semi-affordable for maybe, still, for a blue-collar family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: He says r\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ents here are about $1,000 lower than in other parts of the city. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But landlords can actually \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mdesmond/files/desmondperkins.cc_.2016.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">charge a Section 8 \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> than they would with someone without a voucher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because when the government decides how much it’s willing to pay for each voucher, it doesn’t vary the amounts by neighborhood. It sets one standard for the whole city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s a pretty good deal for landlords in places like Bayview.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in Bayview, in my experience, the amounts that Section 8 pays are pretty much competitive.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But landlords in high-rent places could actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">lose \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In at least half the neighborhoods in San Francisco, Section 8 what they pay per unit is just not compatible with the market rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ERIN\u003c/strong>: Eva says those incentives have created an unintended consequence: Most Section 8 tenants are trapped in low-income neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is where you start to understand how the program, which was designed and very much hoped to provide tenants choice, actually creates sort of an opposite scenario where they’re being pushed away from the kind of neighborhoods that they might want to end up in and forced into neighborhoods that they don’t necessarily want to be in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Eugene says even when landlords \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">want \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to rent to a voucher holder, it’s not that easy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have to jump through a lot of hoops. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What kind of hoops? Well, let’s take a look.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">First, there are the forms. For both tenants and landlords. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, forms could be scary if you’ve never seen this form before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Let’s say you do fill them out correctly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For about two weeks, you probably hear nothing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, hopefully, you get a call for an inspection. The housing authority needs to make sure these buildings are up to code. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For that, you’ll need to take the day off work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times you get a four-hour window for the inspector to come in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And if you have any questions, don’t try to get anyone on the phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just talking to somebody, you’d be waiting on hold for an hour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Eugene says it’s like dealing with the DMV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, we’ve all been there, but you know, we don’t really want to do that unless we have to.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The federal Department of Housing and Urban Development held \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PIH/documents/ListeningForumsPublicSummary012320.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">listening sessions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with property owners across the country back in 2018. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the sessions were taken up by complaints. Eighty-two\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> percent said they had bad experiences dealing with their local housing authority. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of their biggest issues: how long it takes to sign up a new tenant. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole process can take a month or two — time spent without collecting rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a landlord to just sit and wait for that tenant is not, is not reasonable, especially if it’s an individual like a mom-and-pop type of shop.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how do we improve Section 8? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For tenants to have more choice — you know, the original goal of the program — you need more landlords with properties in more neighborhoods. Here’s Eva Rosen: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we think about landlord participation, I think we need to think about carrots and sticks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That means tougher laws to prevent landlords from discriminating against Section 8 tenants. And better enforcement. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s sort of like a stick, right? It’s a slap on the wrist. It’s a no, you’re not allowed to do this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And, then there’s the carrot: more voucher money for properties in wealthier neighborhoods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something the federal government is already trying. They’re basing the rent on the ZIP code, instead of one standard for the whole city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EVA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because there’s no way a landlord is going to participate in the program if they’re getting less rent than they would get from a market tenant, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An early test of the program \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/SAFMR-Interim-Report.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">showed it worked\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. More landlords in affluent areas opened their doors to Section 8.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But in a few cities, there was a downside, too. Some landlords in low-income neighborhoods stopped renting to voucher holders. That led to a drop in the number of homes available there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, the results were still promising enough that they’ve expanded it to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/a-guide-to-small-area-fair-market-rents-safmrs\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two dozen cities\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> across the country.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11908157\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11908157\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-2048x1536.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/IMG_9801-1920x1440.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Eugene Zinchik poses inside a property he manages in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. \u003ccite>(Erin Baldassari/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Another way to recruit more landlords? Cut the red tape. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>EUGENE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Give those individuals that have the voucher more say of what they’re able to do. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Give the power to that individual to sign on their own behalf to take the place or not take the place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After all, Section 8 was supposed to be about choice. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Eugene says, let people make their own. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: A different solution that \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">all about choice. And cold, hard cash. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When the coronavirus hit — and the economy shut down — one thing was clear: People needed cash. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the federal government stepped in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzMNV2qH2IA\">\u003cb>WCNC\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stimulus checks are rolling in for millions of Americans today. About 80 million people are expected to receive their payments today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyfKmBfRi8\">\u003cem>\u003cb>NBC\u003c/b>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, these direct payments are what everyone is talking about because 90% of American households should be getting some money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Before the pandemic, the idea of giving out free money in this country was kind of a hard sell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/nataliefoster?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Natalie Foster\u003c/a> is the president and co-founder of the Economic Security Project. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE FOSTER\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then the pandemic hit and it became clear that cash was the currency of urgency.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it wasn’t just stimulus checks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pandemic unemployment insurance was important for supporting people in the midst of job loss, expanding tax credits like the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These were all things that the government did.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of families, that extra money was a lifeline. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite a recession and a global pandemic, poverty in this country actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">decreased\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NATALIE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We saw a decrease in poverty, and that is because the government realized that poverty is a policy choice and we could make different choices. And so the politics of the moment allowed for us to make a different choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We also made a choice to keep more people housed, with eviction moratoriums and rent relief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For progressives and others, those pandemic-era programs were a golden opportunity t\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">o tackle poverty and housing insecurity on a grand scale. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And test an idea that’s been gaining steam over the past couple years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>NEWS CLIPS\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: It’s an idea known as guaranteed basic income.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A monthly, no-strings-attached cash payment given directly to individuals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A guaranteed income. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Basically, if you want to solve poverty, give people money. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s how it would work: The money would come from the federal government, ideally in the form of a regular, monthly payment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The amount wouldn’t make you rich, but it could help pay for your housing, your food or whatever else you need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: F\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">or all the excitement around guaranteed income today, it’s not actually a new idea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thomas Paine argued for it way back in the 18th century. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And over the years, its supporters have come from all over the political spectrum.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From the Black Panthers, to President Richard Nixon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>RECORDING OF PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON DISCUSSING GUARANTEED INCOME\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What I am proposing is that the federal government build a foundation under the income of every American family with dependent children that cannot care for itself.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From libertarian economist Milton Friedman to civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems to me that the civil rights movement must now begin to organize for the guaranteed annual income, begin to organize people all over our country and mobilize forces, so that we can bring to the attention of our nation, this need and this something which I believe will go a long, long way toward dealing with the Negros’ economic problem and the economic problem with many other poor people confronting our nation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Alaska’s been doing this \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://pfd.alaska.gov/Division-Info/historical-timeline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">since the 1980s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, paying out oil dividends to all its residents — on average, about $1,600 a year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But more recently, about 90 guaranteed-income experiments have popped up across the country. Most were inspired by one city: Stockton, California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL TUBBS\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hello, my name is \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MichaelDTubbs?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Michael Tubbs\u003c/a>. I am the former mayor of the city of Stockton, California. I’m the founder of \u003ca href=\"https://www.mayorsforagi.org/\">Mayors for a Guaranteed Income\u003c/a> and of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/02/former-stockton-mayor-launches-nonprofit-to-end-poverty-in-california/\">End Poverty in California.\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael led Stockton’s guaranteed-income program back in 2019. He says a lot of the issues that came across his desk all came back to the same thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Issues of poverty and lack and pervasive poverty and generational poverty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stockton was the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jul/28/subprimecrisis.useconomy\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">foreclosure capital\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of the country during the Great Recession. It \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy/stockton-california-files-for-bankruptcy-idUSBRE85S05120120629\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">declared bankruptcy\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in 2012. And today, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/about-seed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">about a quarter\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of its population lives below the poverty line. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael wanted to bring a guaranteed income to Stockton because the old way of addressing poverty wasn’t working. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The programs we have now — like welfare or food stamps or housing vouchers — they have a lot of rules and regulations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11882364\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11882364\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2021/07/RS46086_GettyImages-1208192668-qut.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michael Tubbs, former mayor of Stockton, is seen at his office in Stockton on Feb. 7, 2020. As mayor, with the help of the Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration, he implemented an 18-month trial of universal basic income for 125 residents of his city. The concept has recently been gaining ground. \u003ccite>(Nick Otto/AFP via Getty Images))\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you’re on welfare, you have to spend so much time being with case managers, filling out forms, doing this, doing that, which robs you of the ability to do all the other things you need to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Guaranteed-income programs don’t require all that micromanagement, which frees up people’s time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, they have another benefit: You can spend the money however you need. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether it’s on new tires, a transmission, a new washer and dryer, school clothes, a wedding, going to visit your parents you haven’t seen in a while.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When people in Stockton were given the choice of how to use the $500 they got each month, they tended to spend it on food and other essentials.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some also used it to help pay for housing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were able to sort of save up for a down payment to move to safer living conditions. Or some people use it to cope with sort of small rises in rent that occur: $50 here or $100 here, $125 here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Researchers in Stockton didn’t look specifically at the impact of a guaranteed income on evictions. But the small stipend could help. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/12/upshot/eviction-prevention-solutions-government.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most people get evicted for $600 or less\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, according to a New York Times analysis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just knowing you have enough money to get to the end of the month also goes a long way for your mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Folks who received the guaranteed income went from elevated levels of stress to regular levels of stress. And that just was like, wow, like money really sort of affects health and mental health and well-being and how we show up in the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But probably one of the biggest findings from Stockton: \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It challenged a widely held criticism of guaranteed income, that it would cause people to stop working. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The money actually had the opposite effect. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/employment\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People worked \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">About \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/employment\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">12% went from part-time to full-time work\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That’s more than double the control group. And participants were less likely to be unemployed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I wasn’t surprised, but I’m glad the data validated this belief that that $500 was not going to make anyone stop working, that people still worked.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Michael says that’s because it wasn’t enough to live on. But it gave people some breathing room. It allowed them to quit one of their part-time jobs and look for full-time work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or go back to school to change careers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It allowed people the chance to live. And live a life, and live a life beyond just going through the motions and working and going to sleep and working, going to sleep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, critics say you shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from one small pilot program — with only 125 participants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rolling out a guaranteed income nationally could have a much bigger impact on the economy. And many worry that all that extra cash would only cause prices to rise, setting off higher inflation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guaranteed income also does nothing to solve a larger problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thing we \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm#:~:text=%2D%2DHousing%20expenditures%20increased%203.5,dwellings%20were%20down%200.5%20percent.\">spend the most money on is housing\u003c/a>. And that just keeps going up. Taking a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/10/home-prices-are-now-rising-much-faster-than-incomes-studies-show.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">bigger and bigger piece\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> out of our paychecks.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MICHAEL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guaranteed income is great, but we don’t want all that money to be spent on housing because people have other needs, right? So I think a guaranteed income is a powerful tool. But like any toolbox, you need more than one tool to really get the job done. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Guaranteed income can’t solve poverty on its own. But Michael says it’s a good place to start if we want to solve other big problems, like evictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Evictions perpetuate inequality, a\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd they push more people into poverty. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When you’re evicted, you lose your neighborhood, your school, your support network. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can be trapped in a cycle of debt, even become homeless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the solutions are within our reach, and people are already pushing for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Activists in Fresno are fighting for a fair shot in court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tenants in Antioch are demanding more protection against rising rents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And women like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11905386/why-black-women-are-more-likely-to-face-eviction\">Jean [Kendrick, from Episode 2]\u003c/a> are sharing their stories and calling attention to inequities we can’t unsee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Evictions reflect our housing system: who reaps the profit and who suffers the pain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But we have an opportunity to make the system more fair, to invest in people’s success, not just for a few, but for all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The question is, will we take it? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Molly Solomon. Thank you so much for listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts — and share it with a friend!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’ve got one more thing that we’re working on. It’s a bonus episode full of stories from you. That’ll drop in a few weeks, so stay tuned. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sold Out is a production of KQED. This episode was written and reported by us: Molly Solomon and Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Adhiti Bandlamudi produced this episode. Kyana Moghadam is our senior producer. Brendan Willard is our sound engineer. And Rob Speight wrote our theme song.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Natalia Aldana is our senior engagement producer and Gerald Fermin is our engagement intern.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you to our editor, Erika Kelly. Additional editing from Jessica Placzek and Otis Taylor Jr.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We couldn’t have made this season without Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Holly Kernan, Erika Aguilar and Vinnee Tong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music out)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Novato police on Monday said they are \u003ca href=\"https://local.nixle.com/alert/8457286/?l=en\">looking for a man\u003c/a> who was caught on \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UPjKujned8\">video\u003c/a> vandalizing tents in a homeless encampment on Jan. 3. The unidentified man appears to slice through the fabric of two tents with a knife, before bending and breaking the tents' poles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In separate \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/robert.powelson/videos/3979385912118231\">videos\u003c/a> posted to Facebook, Robbie Powelson said he reported the crime after capturing with a trail camera what he describes as a vigilante attack on his property, and said that it wasn't the first time the encampment had been targeted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Powelson is part of a small group who recently set up camp at Hamilton Field, a former military base. Residents of the encampment have refused to vacate the property, despite an order issued by the city. Powelson said they're advocating for affordable housing on the site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UPjKujned8\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"We're just still going to be fighting for this community land trust and fighting for some change in Novato,\" Powelson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, City Manager Adam McGill called the occupation of 201 Sunset Dr. in the Hamilton neighborhood a two-man effort that shifts the city's attention away from an established, sanctioned encampment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"This stunt only serves as a distraction that appears to be for their own self-interest,\" McGill said. \"One of them should return to his house and the other should return to Lee Gerner Park where there is an established encampment that has routine wrap-around support services for all those present rather than inefficiently divide our efforts at a new encampment across town.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label='Related Coverage' tag='homelessness']The city hopes to sell the 9-acre group of Hamilton \u003ca href=\"https://www.novato.org/about-novato/get-to-know-novato/hamilton-field/hamilton-field-federal-lands-to-parks-exchange\">properties\u003c/a>, which it \u003ca href=\"https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/700538/J.4_Disposition_of_City_Property_09-22-2020.pdf\">estimates\u003c/a> is worth $6.9 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marin County is home to more than 1,000 unhoused people, according to last year's \u003ca href=\"https://www.marinhhs.org/sites/default/files/files/servicepages/2019_07/2019hirdreport_marincounty_final.pdf\">count\u003c/a>. About a third of those people reside in Novato. In November, county leaders \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Homeless-housing-plan-for-Novato-hotel-under-15718089.php\">rejected\u003c/a> a controversial plan to buy a 70-room hotel in the city to help bring people in off the streets in conjunction with the state's Homekey program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Powelson said a camp-out demonstration at Novato City Hall is planned for Jan. 11 to protest the tent vandalization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The city hopes to sell the 9-acre group of Hamilton \u003ca href=\"https://www.novato.org/about-novato/get-to-know-novato/hamilton-field/hamilton-field-federal-lands-to-parks-exchange\">properties\u003c/a>, which it \u003ca href=\"https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/700538/J.4_Disposition_of_City_Property_09-22-2020.pdf\">estimates\u003c/a> is worth $6.9 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marin County is home to more than 1,000 unhoused people, according to last year's \u003ca href=\"https://www.marinhhs.org/sites/default/files/files/servicepages/2019_07/2019hirdreport_marincounty_final.pdf\">count\u003c/a>. About a third of those people reside in Novato. In November, county leaders \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Homeless-housing-plan-for-Novato-hotel-under-15718089.php\">rejected\u003c/a> a controversial plan to buy a 70-room hotel in the city to help bring people in off the streets in conjunction with the state's Homekey program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Powelson said a camp-out demonstration at Novato City Hall is planned for Jan. 11 to protest the tent vandalization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"radiolab": {
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"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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"reveal": {
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