ICE Airport Arrests Attract Legal Outcry

Federal immigration agents arrested more than 50 thousand people in July, a record number for the Trump administration which has demanded 2,000 ICE arrests daily. The surge has brought new tactics including arresting travelers at U.S. airports with pending green card applications or valid work permits. And the public nature of the airport arrests have flooded social media. We talk about the ways in which ICE is targeting individuals who have legal protections and what may come next.

Guests:

• Michelle Hackman, reporter, Wall Street Journal
• Ghassan Shamieh, immigration attorney and managing partner, Law Offices of Shamieh, Shamieh & Ternieden
• Deep Gulasekaram, professor of law and director of Byron White Center for the Study of Constitutional Law, University of Colorado Boulder Law School
• Huy Tran, executive director, SIREN, an immigrant rights organization with offices in San Jose and Fresno
• Lauren Schneider, Oakland resident

This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.

Alexis Madrigal: Welcome to Forum. I’m Alexis Madrigal.

Clip: Help us! ICE is here! Help us! Help us! No, don’t show me in!

Alexis Madrigal: That was a friend of Chantal Rojas Morales, an Oakland resident, as she was detained by ICE agents at the Denver airport. This clip of a young woman being muscled out of an airport terminal went hugely viral, as have similar stories at other airports.

As we look at the new mandates and tactics that ICE is operating with, we’re joined first this morning by Lauren Schneider, another friend of Morales, to discuss what happened at the airport and how Morales got back to the Bay. Thanks for joining us, Lauren.

Lauren Schneider: Yeah, good morning, Alexis. Thanks for having me.

Alexis Madrigal: So what happened? I know you weren’t there. It was another friend that was there, but you got deeply involved. So what happens at the Denver airport?

Lauren Schneider: Yeah, so Chantal had been in Denver. She lives here in Oakland, but she’s been in Denver with some friends for the weekend and everybody returning home. And she was there with the family that she’d been an au pair with previously, but also some other friends.

So she was at the gate coming back to Oakland when a plainclothes ICE officer approached her and asked about her visa. And she declined to share it. And when my friend Alicia, whose voice you just heard, came back from filling her water bottle, Chantal shared that this happened. And they decided to board the plane.

At that point, an alarm went off. The plane closed, officers closed the shuttle into the jetway and started the detention process.

Alexis Madrigal: So at this point, what did Chantal’s friends and family know? Like, when did you actually know where she was and what was happening?

Lauren Schneider: Yeah, well, luckily, my friend Alicia was with her, as well as several other people in the community, so they were able to witness it and film it. And right away, our other friend Lauren — another Lauren — was at another gate, actually boarding her plane with her two sons and husband, and got the phone call from Alicia that Chantal had been detained.

So Lauren immediately decided not to board her flight and then gave me a phone call right away. My sister is an immigration attorney, and so we were trying to mobilize resources as quickly as possible to figure out what was happening with Chantal and how we could help her.

Alexis Madrigal: So, you know, at the time that she was detained, what was Chantal’s immigration status?

Lauren Schneider: Um, you know, so Chantal came to the U.S. lawfully in 2023 as an au pair. Before that program ended, she filed an immigration application that is still under review. And so with that, DHS has granted her authorization to work in the U.S., and she’s committed no crime.

Alexis Madrigal: So what was the reason given for her detention?

Lauren Schneider: They did not give a reason at the moment, and I actually have not seen the warrant myself, so I’m not sure. But it just was a continued process of not having full access to information.

Alexis Madrigal: So, you know, I think many people out there have seen some of these videos. They may have people in their community who have been detained by ICE or are beginning to imagine seeing something like this happen in their communities. What did you end up doing after Chantal was detained?

Lauren Schneider: Um, yeah, so my two friends were able to stay in Denver, and I took the first flight out the next day to go out also in solidarity and support and to work to mobilize resources.

So my friend Lauren and I were able to stay on and off in Denver for the next almost two weeks while she was in detention, working for her release. So we got there, we mobilized resources to find her an attorney and start to navigate the system and advocate on her behalf.

Alexis Madrigal: So what are you doing during that time? You’re actually, like, going to the detention center, you’re talking to local immigration lawyers, like, what’s happening?

Lauren Schneider: It’s a bunch of different things. So, yeah, first we were trying to find an immigration attorney who could work on her behalf.

Again, because of Alicia’s ability to catch that video and get attention, we mobilized an incredible amount of resources through a GoFundMe. And so we were able — Chantal had the freedom to find an attorney who could work on her behalf. So, yeah, finding Laura Lichter, who’s a great attorney in Denver.

And then figuring out ways to contact her. While we wanted to get her out, we also wanted her to know that she wasn’t alone as soon as possible, and going through all the hoops to figure out what are the different ways to have visiting hours. So we were able to visit her. There are two days a week that I have visiting hours.

And then also setting up different platforms for text messages, et cetera.

Alexis Madrigal: And were some people in this kind of care group of folks around Chantal able to get in touch with her family in Ecuador and these kinds of things so they knew what was going on?

Lauren Schneider: Yeah, absolutely. There was, like, a very rapid response in terms of people connecting with other people. So, yeah, there were many different WhatsApp groups just trying to keep people informed.

But, of course, you know, it was hard to get information or to know what was happening. And so I think there was a lot of desperation for more information when we all were limited by what we could learn at any given moment.

Alexis Madrigal: So given how all these folks around her, given she was able to have legal counsel, given her actual status and work authorization and stuff, you were able to get her out, right? And where is she now? Is she back home?

Lauren Schneider: She is finally back home in Oakland, and thank goodness. But that really, I think, only happened as quickly as it did because of this insane amount of resources that were mobilized.

But, yeah, it took many days of not just advocating — you know, my friend Lauren and I knocking on the door at the ICE office in Aurora every single day to keep moving the work forward. And, of course, obviously, her lawyer working tirelessly to file different proceedings.

But also working with Representative Lateefah Simon’s office, as well as Senator Hickenlooper’s office, working at the federal level to advocate. So, yeah, it was happening at every level.

Alexis Madrigal: To anyone who’d answer the phone you were calling.

Lauren Schneider: Exactly.

Alexis Madrigal: You know, a lot of us have seen ICE detentions in video or watched things that have happened around the country, but now having had this happen to a friend who was legally in this country, I mean, how do you feel about what’s happening?

Lauren Schneider: I feel a lot of things. I definitely feel a sense of moral outrage. I feel grief. And at times, I felt a profound sense of powerlessness in the face of this system.

But at times, I found the power through community, through connection, through mobilizing together.

Alexis Madrigal: And also, we’re going to talk about stories of folks who did not have this wonderful group of friends come together and work on their behalf. Thank you so much for joining us, Lauren Schneider.

Lauren Schneider: Absolutely. Thanks, Alexis.

Alexis Madrigal: I want to bring in another voice here. Ghassan Shamieh is an immigration attorney and managing partner at the Law Offices of Shamieh, Shamieh & Ternieden. Welcome.

Ghassan Shamieh: Thank you, Alexis. Thanks for having me.

Alexis Madrigal: So, you know, you have obviously been working in this immigration space, long-time law firm, and you know Chantal’s story is probably both, you know, familiar and dispiriting. I mean, do you have any clients who experienced the same kind of thing?

Ghassan Shamieh: Yeah, unfortunately, I have about six different clients who have been detained at airports across the country. Three of which were here at SFO.

Alexis Madrigal: And what do you think is distinct about those kind of detentions, or is it just kind of part of this broader push to be detaining people wherever ICE can find folks, even those who previously immigration authorities would not have arrested?

Ghassan Shamieh: Yeah, Alexis, this is really unprecedented. I mean, if you ask practitioners who’ve been doing this for 40, 50 years, they’ll all tell you this type of detention at airports across the country has never been seen before.

And so I think there’s a couple of reasons why it’s happening at airports. And one can speculate because when you buy a ticket, right, that information is shared with TSA and with the government, especially after 9/11 for security purposes. So people who are traveling domestically on planes are kind of low-hanging fruit for this administration.

And when this administration has a targeted quota publicly stated of 2,000 detentions per day, it’s kind of low-hanging fruit to go after people in airports. That’s one reason.

And I think the second reason why airports are being focused on is because of the negative attention that ICE actions in our communities across the country have been getting. I mean, we’ve seen ICE murder U.S. citizens in our streets. And so by doing it behind TSA lines in a confined area, it’s less likely to get the kind of attention that these in-our-community types of operations were getting.

Alexis Madrigal: Can you just tell us about, you know, as I understand it, one of your clients was detained who was legally in this country and a newlywed traveling for their honeymoon?

Ghassan Shamieh: Yeah, I mean, I laugh just because of how shocking it was. I mean, she had just gotten married to her U.S. citizen boyfriend days before her detention. They’re from the Midwest. They were here in San Francisco with some friends enjoying their honeymoon, and they hadn’t even gotten their marriage certificate yet. It was still in process.

But yet she was approached by three or four masked ICE agents at the airport, and she was targeted because they knew exactly who they were going for. They took her into detention. Um, and it took about two to three weeks before we were able to get her out.

Alexis Madrigal: I mean, what do we know? What have you heard from your clients about the conditions inside those detention centers?

Ghassan Shamieh: I mean, it’s terrible. I think everybody, by and large, is talking about how terrible the conditions are.

One woman who was detained talked about being in a room that was meant for 50 people, and there was 150 women in there. They were doing counts where the detention facility guards were doing count at 5 a.m., 3 a.m., every couple of hours, turning on all the lights, making it almost impossible for people to sleep.

Alexis Madrigal: So, I mean, what are you saying now to your clients or people who call you and who have a legal status, but maybe one that isn’t a U.S. citizen? What are you saying to them about how they should be traveling, if they should be traveling, what precautions they should take?

Ghassan Shamieh: Yeah, I think immigration attorneys and advocates alike are all telling their clients, regardless of what their status is, whether they have something pending or not, to not travel domestically via plane.

I think we’ve seen over the past three to four weeks that has become a very risky endeavor. And, Alexis, I think it’s important to point out that prior to about four weeks ago, this was never a concern, right? I mean, domestic travel was always typically okay for people. And this was never an issue we thought we would have to come across.

And so this has required a lot of immigration attorneys to pivot their advice and also requires immigrants who rely on traveling to see family, to maybe go work in a different state for a while, to find alternative means to be able to do what they need to do to survive.

Alexis Madrigal: Yeah, I mean, when this first started happening, were you sort of like, “God, this must be a mix-up”?

Ghassan Shamieh: Yeah, yeah.

Alexis Madrigal: “I’m in this one. I, you know, like, maybe you could just call someone at ICE.” But, of course, that’s not what happens. That’s not how this goes.

Ghassan Shamieh: I wish, Alexis, I wish it was that simple, where you could just call somebody at ICE, but obviously that’s not the issue.

When this started happening, you were really confused, right? I mean, you understand that ICE theoretically has the authority to detain folks, but the manner in which they’re doing it is very questionable.

And, you know, as a result, a lot of immigration attorneys have been filing habeas petitions to get their clients out of detention.

Alexis Madrigal: We’re going to talk much more about all of these things. We’re talking about the ways in which ICE is targeting individuals who are here legally in the U.S., including arrests of travelers at airports.

Earlier, you might’ve heard Lauren Schneider, an Oakland resident, whose friend was detained at the Denver airport. We’ve got Ghassan Shamieh, an immigration attorney, with us here right now.

And, of course, we want to hear from you. Maybe you or someone you know has been detained by ICE. What was that experience like? Maybe you’ve changed your plans or behavior because of a concern about immigration status and ICE.

Give us a call. The number is 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. The email’s [email protected].

I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned for more.