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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan data-slate-fragment=\"JTVCJTdCJTIydHlwZSUyMiUzQSUyMnBhcmFncmFwaCUyMiUyQyUyMmNoaWxkcmVuJTIyJTNBJTVCJTdCJTIydGV4dCUyMiUzQSUyMkZpdmUlMjBjdXJyZW50JTIwYW5kJTIwZm9ybWVyJTIwc3R1ZGVudHMlMjBhdCUyMFN0YW5mb3JkJTIwYXJlJTIwb24lMjB0cmlhbCUyMGZvciUyMGJhcnJpY2FkaW5nJTIwdGhlbXNlbHZlcyUyMGluc2lkZSUyMHRoZSUyMHVuaXZlcnNpdHklMjBwcmVzaWRlbnQlRTIlODAlOTlzJTIwb2ZmaWNlJTIwb24lMjBKdW5lJTIwNSUyQyUyMDIwMjQuJUMyJUEwJTIyJTdEJTVEJTdEJTVE\">Five current and former students at Stanford are on trial for barricading themselves inside the university president’s office on June 5, 2024. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The protesters, who face counts of felony conspiracy and felony vandalism, say their actions were aimed at pressuring Stanford to divest from companies that support Israel’s bombing and invasion of Gaza. Prosecutors say that protesters committed a crime by breaking into a building and causing damage to university property.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2057179178&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Back in June of 2024, thousands of college students across the nation were protesting in solidarity with Gaza\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Protests: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:23] \u003c/em>Peace, peace, peace Palestine! Peace, Peace,peace Palestine! Peace!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:28] \u003c/em>Student protesters called for a ceasefire, but also for their schools to divest from companies that benefited from Israel’s bombing and invasion, including at Stanford, where 12 protesters barricaded themselves inside the office of the university president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Protester: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:46] \u003c/em>An autonomous group of Stanford students are occupying President Richard Saller’s office in light of the ongoing genocide in Gaza, carried out by the Israeli government and supported by allies like the American government and institutions like Stanford University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:03] \u003c/em>Now, over a year and a half later, five of those protesters are standing trial in Santa Clara County Superior Court and have been charged with felonies. Prosecutors say that these protesters crossed a line by breaking and entering and causing property damage to the university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>We are here today because I will not allow people hiding behind masks to commit crimes. The conspirators plan to break into Building 10 and they broke in. They then plan to commit vandalism and they committed hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>The trial of five Stanford student protesters. Joseph, we’re talking about a specific action that happened on June 5th, 2024. What happened on Stanford’s campus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:01] \u003c/em>It was early in the morning and a group of students, mostly current and former Stanford students at the time, but also another student from a different school, essentially broke into the president’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:16] \u003c/em>Joseph Geha is the South Bay Editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:20] \u003c/em>It’s in building 10 on campus. It’s right off of kind of a main quad area, and they barricaded themselves inside the building. They blocked doors off, they sealed off entrances, and they started posting on social media about their demands, about what they were asking the school to do, which was to consider divestment from companies and industries that are supporting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza. They spilled fake blood on furniture and items in the offices, and they also broke or damaged some portions of the door frames and stuff where they were using ladders and cable ties to seal off the doors to make their protest known. It was all just a few hours in total, from the time they were in the building to the time that they were eventually arrested by Stanford police and Santa Clara County Sheriff’s deputies and pulled out of that building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:25] \u003c/em>Was this action unique compared to other protest actions on campus, whether at Stanford or elsewhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:33] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely. So this action, the breaking into Building 10, going into the lobby of the president’s office and essentially taking it over, and even ceremonially renaming it in honor of a late Palestinian doctor who was killed, I think what the protesters were trying to do there is differentiate their protest from the ones that they had participated in and others had participated in leading up to this. By making a statement that couldn’t be ignored. So certainly it came amongst a wave of other protests on campus and across the country, but it did take things a little bit further than other protests had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:15] \u003c/em>What was the reaction from Stanford and from local authorities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:19] \u003c/em>You know, the response was initially swift, and I would say pretty stern. These students were arrested, they were booked in jail. You know, they had to deal with the university’s own disciplinary systems. Many of them were suspended for two quarters, banned from campus. The president’s office had put out statements about how this had gone too far and how it was definitely not acceptable conduct. It would ultimately take until April of 2025, however, for the Santa Clara County District Attorney Jeff Rosen to issue felony charges for all 12 people who were involved. Seven of the original 12 people involved have taken youth diversion programs or mental health diversion programs. So they are working through the court system to eventually maybe have their charges dismissed. And we have these five remaining protesters who have chosen to go to trial. They chose not to take deals from the court. And starting just, you know, earlier this month, we had the trial actually beginning for these five.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>One reason this story has gotten a lot of attention is because of the fact that the Santa Clara County DA’s office filed felony charges against these protesters. What specifically are they being charged with?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:42] \u003c/em>Those five people are all on trial and they’re facing two felony counts each. The felonies are a conspiracy to commit a crime and vandalism. So the, you know, the DA’s office is alleging that these people conspired and planned to commit this crime and then went ahead and did that as well. And in the course of trespassing and breaking into this building 10 in this president’s office. The DA’s office is also alleging that they committed vandalism and did at least $400 worth of damage, which is the threshold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>Is this unusual, Joseph? And why a felony? Has the DA’s office said anything about that or about this case?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:24] \u003c/em>Yeah. You’re right to note that the felony charges are rare. We saw thousands of people arrested across the country during this wave of protests in 2024 for this very issue. But overall, out of these thousands of arrests, it’s been shown that there are very few of them. That are dealing with felony charges, and more specifically, charges that have really gone this far. Even other cases across the country where people were facing felony charges didn’t make it to a trial. There was a deal or a dismissal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>Dissent is American. Vandalism is criminal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:03] \u003c/em>You know, the DA, Jeff Rosen, had said very publicly when he announced the charges that he felt that these students and these protesters crossed a bright line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Stanford estimated that the perpetrators caused hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage to the building’s interior. As district attorney, my job, alongside law enforcement, is to protect the people and property of Santa Clara County, which includes Stanford University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>When I hear felony, I mean, I’m not a criminal justice expert, but when I hear felony I think prison time, I know it’s early, but what kind of penalties could there be for these five people? Has the DA’s office given any signal about that, what they think the penalty should be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:48] \u003c/em>Yeah, theoretically, if convicted and, you know, the maximum penalty was thrown at these protestors, they could all be facing multiple years in prison, up to four years in prison over these crimes, but D.A. Rosen did say when he announced the charges that he doesn’t view this as a prison case, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:06] \u003c/em>I would like these individuals to plead guilty, accept responsibility for what they did. I don’t know that it’s a case where I would want these individuals sitting in jail for these actions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:21] \u003c/em>He thinks the punishment should be somewhere in the realm of paying restitution to Stanford, essentially making the school whole for what they’re alleged to have damaged or broken or ruined, and community service and other types of payback that has not involved time behind bars essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:41] \u003c/em>Because the way I see it is they damaged and destroyed all of this property and caused all this vandalism and I think that their punishment should be cleaning things up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:00] \u003c/em>Coming up, How the defense plans to argue its case in court. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:45] \u003c/em>What have the defendants, you know, these five people and their lawyers said about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:52] \u003c/em>Yeah, the defendants, you know, these protesters who are on trial, they’ve been very clear about, you know what their focus was at the time and what it is to this day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Herman Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Nothing that happens in court room or what happened to me is as severe as what’s happening to the Palestinians, you know, who are facing genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with Herman Gonzalez after a pre-trial hearing last month, and they were very clear with me that this is about raising awareness and attention to Stanford’s involvement financially in supporting companies and industries that are benefiting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza and, in their view, resulting in an ongoing genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Herman Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>We’re advocates for Palestine because we believe in the Palestinian cause. We believe that innocent people shouldn’t be slaughtered simply because of their ethnicity, where they were born, or for wanting to live in their own homeland in peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:48] \u003c/em>And Hunter Taylor Black told me directly, as other protesters have also mentioned, that they believe the case is intended to chill further political speech. They think it’s aimed at making an example out of them so that other people who want to share a similar opinion in the future will not do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hunter Taylor Black: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:11] \u003c/em>I think that in this trial, the DA has been pretty transparent in his aims that he sees this as a case that is meant to discourage future student activists from acting on the things they believe in, in the ways that student activists have acted in the past. And so I hope that the outcome of this case is that, you know, that legacy of advocacy to come out of students for what is right and what history has proven is just continues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:43] \u003c/em>Has D.A. Rosen responded to the, basically the accusations that he’s putting his thumb on the scale and targeting pro-Palestinian speech?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:50] \u003c/em>In talking to folks from the DA’s office, they have denied that there is any kind of attempt to quell speech, and instead they have said, you know, this is a very simple case. They’ve tried to focus on that there’s a line in the sand that you are not allowed to cross, even if you feel very passionately about your beliefs that you’re protesting, and that this group of people crossed it. Even in the pretrial motions, the DAs office, you now, asked the judge and was successful in getting a ruling that The defense can’t use the argument that the DA’s office is quelling political speech with this prosecution. So within the walls of the courtroom, that argument’s not gonna fly, and the DAs office has been vocal that this is for them just about enforcing the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:36] \u003c/em>How is the defense talking about this? What have they said about the case publicly? I mean, I assume based on what you’re saying, no one’s disputing whether these students broke into the president’s office and occupied it. So what’s the defense then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, one of the attorneys even told me, you know, earlier in the case that it’s not so much a who done it as a why done it. These protesters aren’t trying to beat the rap, so to speak. And instead, what the defense has tried to highlight is a little bit what we’ve been talking about, which is just the motivations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tony Brass: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:09] \u003c/em>Is this malice or is this done for a greater good? That’s the issue. I mean, these students who are acting for a great or good, and they’re inaction was something they, out of a sense of conscience, couldn’t live with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:23] \u003c/em>Tony Brass is one of the defense attorneys involved, and he told me that, you know, while the charge of vandalism requires malice, he’s saying these students that he’s representing were motivated by what he said was a humanitarian concern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tony Brass: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:38] \u003c/em>They want to present this trial completely sanitized. Just people who’ve analyzed for the sake of analyzing, just to be malicious. And that’s unfair. It’s both intellectually unfair and I hope a judge agrees, legally unfair\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:58] \u003c/em>How present is Israel’s actual bombing and invasion of Gaza in this trial? Because on the one hand, you could say, well, this is about property damage at Stanford, but it also seems difficult for that not to come up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:13] \u003c/em>Yeah, there have been some pretty heated arguments about this very question. The judge and the defense attorney and the DA even had to spend, you know, multiple hours in December in a pre-trial hearing hashing out what the ground rules were going to be because the DA’s office thinks the defense attorneys should not even be allowed to use the word genocide or should not be able to talk extensively about the motivations of their defendants. The defense attorneys, for their part, say, you can’t separate these issues. The reason these students did this is because of this issue. Because they view this as a genocide, because they were trying to stop human suffering. And so, ultimately, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Hanley Chu, in December, kind of laid like a middle ground and said, you know, I’m going to allow limited discussion about genocide and talk about the motivations of the defendants. But if he feels it was going to go too far, then he would take action in the of the trial to limit it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:16] \u003c/em>Has Stanford said anything about this trial? I mean, I understand they had their own disciplinary process earlier, but this trial is about something that happened on their campus. So what have they said about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:29] \u003c/em>At this point, Stanford has mostly stayed out of the public fray, and anytime we’ve done reporting on it, you know, we’re of course asking Stanford almost every time for comment or if they have an opinion on this, but they mostly have stayed out it publicly. The defense attorneys have said they believe Stanford has been behind the scenes pushing for an aggressive prosecution, but there’s no public proof of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:54] \u003c/em>So Joseph, the trial started last Friday and you were in the courtroom. What was it like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>Well, first of all, the courtroom, you know, was full. And it was full of almost completely, as far as I could tell, supporters of the defendants, supporters of protesters. A lot of them are wearing pattern scarves, which are known as kafiyas, which are, you know, a Middle Eastern or an Arab scarf that has become a very, you know, visual signifier of support with Palestinians and Palestinian solidarity. There’s also a lot of folks who have actual, you know, written signs or pieces of paper attached to their clothing that say, you know Stanford, drop the charges. And these folks are filling the courtroom to show solidarity with these students and solidarity with, you they are trying to bring attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>So, I mean, we’re basically at the beginning of the trial, right, and it’s gonna be quite some time before there’s a verdict, sentencing, things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:53] \u003c/em>Yes, absolutely. We’re in the early days here, and this could take several weeks to complete. It’s very tough to predict because sometimes an examination of a witness and a cross-examination can take longer than expected, or there can be objections that slow things down. But yeah, we’re at the beginning of what could be a several-week-long case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:17] \u003c/em>Joseph, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan data-slate-fragment=\"JTVCJTdCJTIydHlwZSUyMiUzQSUyMnBhcmFncmFwaCUyMiUyQyUyMmNoaWxkcmVuJTIyJTNBJTVCJTdCJTIydGV4dCUyMiUzQSUyMkZpdmUlMjBjdXJyZW50JTIwYW5kJTIwZm9ybWVyJTIwc3R1ZGVudHMlMjBhdCUyMFN0YW5mb3JkJTIwYXJlJTIwb24lMjB0cmlhbCUyMGZvciUyMGJhcnJpY2FkaW5nJTIwdGhlbXNlbHZlcyUyMGluc2lkZSUyMHRoZSUyMHVuaXZlcnNpdHklMjBwcmVzaWRlbnQlRTIlODAlOTlzJTIwb2ZmaWNlJTIwb24lMjBKdW5lJTIwNSUyQyUyMDIwMjQuJUMyJUEwJTIyJTdEJTVEJTdEJTVE\">Five current and former students at Stanford are on trial for barricading themselves inside the university president’s office on June 5, 2024. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The protesters, who face counts of felony conspiracy and felony vandalism, say their actions were aimed at pressuring Stanford to divest from companies that support Israel’s bombing and invasion of Gaza. Prosecutors say that protesters committed a crime by breaking into a building and causing damage to university property.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2057179178&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Back in June of 2024, thousands of college students across the nation were protesting in solidarity with Gaza\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Protests: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:23] \u003c/em>Peace, peace, peace Palestine! Peace, Peace,peace Palestine! Peace!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:28] \u003c/em>Student protesters called for a ceasefire, but also for their schools to divest from companies that benefited from Israel’s bombing and invasion, including at Stanford, where 12 protesters barricaded themselves inside the office of the university president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Protester: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:46] \u003c/em>An autonomous group of Stanford students are occupying President Richard Saller’s office in light of the ongoing genocide in Gaza, carried out by the Israeli government and supported by allies like the American government and institutions like Stanford University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:03] \u003c/em>Now, over a year and a half later, five of those protesters are standing trial in Santa Clara County Superior Court and have been charged with felonies. Prosecutors say that these protesters crossed a line by breaking and entering and causing property damage to the university.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>We are here today because I will not allow people hiding behind masks to commit crimes. The conspirators plan to break into Building 10 and they broke in. They then plan to commit vandalism and they committed hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>The trial of five Stanford student protesters. Joseph, we’re talking about a specific action that happened on June 5th, 2024. What happened on Stanford’s campus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:01] \u003c/em>It was early in the morning and a group of students, mostly current and former Stanford students at the time, but also another student from a different school, essentially broke into the president’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:16] \u003c/em>Joseph Geha is the South Bay Editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:20] \u003c/em>It’s in building 10 on campus. It’s right off of kind of a main quad area, and they barricaded themselves inside the building. They blocked doors off, they sealed off entrances, and they started posting on social media about their demands, about what they were asking the school to do, which was to consider divestment from companies and industries that are supporting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza. They spilled fake blood on furniture and items in the offices, and they also broke or damaged some portions of the door frames and stuff where they were using ladders and cable ties to seal off the doors to make their protest known. It was all just a few hours in total, from the time they were in the building to the time that they were eventually arrested by Stanford police and Santa Clara County Sheriff’s deputies and pulled out of that building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:25] \u003c/em>Was this action unique compared to other protest actions on campus, whether at Stanford or elsewhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:33] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely. So this action, the breaking into Building 10, going into the lobby of the president’s office and essentially taking it over, and even ceremonially renaming it in honor of a late Palestinian doctor who was killed, I think what the protesters were trying to do there is differentiate their protest from the ones that they had participated in and others had participated in leading up to this. By making a statement that couldn’t be ignored. So certainly it came amongst a wave of other protests on campus and across the country, but it did take things a little bit further than other protests had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:15] \u003c/em>What was the reaction from Stanford and from local authorities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:19] \u003c/em>You know, the response was initially swift, and I would say pretty stern. These students were arrested, they were booked in jail. You know, they had to deal with the university’s own disciplinary systems. Many of them were suspended for two quarters, banned from campus. The president’s office had put out statements about how this had gone too far and how it was definitely not acceptable conduct. It would ultimately take until April of 2025, however, for the Santa Clara County District Attorney Jeff Rosen to issue felony charges for all 12 people who were involved. Seven of the original 12 people involved have taken youth diversion programs or mental health diversion programs. So they are working through the court system to eventually maybe have their charges dismissed. And we have these five remaining protesters who have chosen to go to trial. They chose not to take deals from the court. And starting just, you know, earlier this month, we had the trial actually beginning for these five.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>One reason this story has gotten a lot of attention is because of the fact that the Santa Clara County DA’s office filed felony charges against these protesters. What specifically are they being charged with?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:42] \u003c/em>Those five people are all on trial and they’re facing two felony counts each. The felonies are a conspiracy to commit a crime and vandalism. So the, you know, the DA’s office is alleging that these people conspired and planned to commit this crime and then went ahead and did that as well. And in the course of trespassing and breaking into this building 10 in this president’s office. The DA’s office is also alleging that they committed vandalism and did at least $400 worth of damage, which is the threshold.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>Is this unusual, Joseph? And why a felony? Has the DA’s office said anything about that or about this case?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:24] \u003c/em>Yeah. You’re right to note that the felony charges are rare. We saw thousands of people arrested across the country during this wave of protests in 2024 for this very issue. But overall, out of these thousands of arrests, it’s been shown that there are very few of them. That are dealing with felony charges, and more specifically, charges that have really gone this far. Even other cases across the country where people were facing felony charges didn’t make it to a trial. There was a deal or a dismissal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>Dissent is American. Vandalism is criminal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:03] \u003c/em>You know, the DA, Jeff Rosen, had said very publicly when he announced the charges that he felt that these students and these protesters crossed a bright line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Stanford estimated that the perpetrators caused hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage to the building’s interior. As district attorney, my job, alongside law enforcement, is to protect the people and property of Santa Clara County, which includes Stanford University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>When I hear felony, I mean, I’m not a criminal justice expert, but when I hear felony I think prison time, I know it’s early, but what kind of penalties could there be for these five people? Has the DA’s office given any signal about that, what they think the penalty should be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:48] \u003c/em>Yeah, theoretically, if convicted and, you know, the maximum penalty was thrown at these protestors, they could all be facing multiple years in prison, up to four years in prison over these crimes, but D.A. Rosen did say when he announced the charges that he doesn’t view this as a prison case, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:06] \u003c/em>I would like these individuals to plead guilty, accept responsibility for what they did. I don’t know that it’s a case where I would want these individuals sitting in jail for these actions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:21] \u003c/em>He thinks the punishment should be somewhere in the realm of paying restitution to Stanford, essentially making the school whole for what they’re alleged to have damaged or broken or ruined, and community service and other types of payback that has not involved time behind bars essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Rosen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:41] \u003c/em>Because the way I see it is they damaged and destroyed all of this property and caused all this vandalism and I think that their punishment should be cleaning things up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:00] \u003c/em>Coming up, How the defense plans to argue its case in court. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:45] \u003c/em>What have the defendants, you know, these five people and their lawyers said about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:52] \u003c/em>Yeah, the defendants, you know, these protesters who are on trial, they’ve been very clear about, you know what their focus was at the time and what it is to this day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Herman Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Nothing that happens in court room or what happened to me is as severe as what’s happening to the Palestinians, you know, who are facing genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with Herman Gonzalez after a pre-trial hearing last month, and they were very clear with me that this is about raising awareness and attention to Stanford’s involvement financially in supporting companies and industries that are benefiting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza and, in their view, resulting in an ongoing genocide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Herman Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>We’re advocates for Palestine because we believe in the Palestinian cause. We believe that innocent people shouldn’t be slaughtered simply because of their ethnicity, where they were born, or for wanting to live in their own homeland in peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:48] \u003c/em>And Hunter Taylor Black told me directly, as other protesters have also mentioned, that they believe the case is intended to chill further political speech. They think it’s aimed at making an example out of them so that other people who want to share a similar opinion in the future will not do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hunter Taylor Black: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:11] \u003c/em>I think that in this trial, the DA has been pretty transparent in his aims that he sees this as a case that is meant to discourage future student activists from acting on the things they believe in, in the ways that student activists have acted in the past. And so I hope that the outcome of this case is that, you know, that legacy of advocacy to come out of students for what is right and what history has proven is just continues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:43] \u003c/em>Has D.A. Rosen responded to the, basically the accusations that he’s putting his thumb on the scale and targeting pro-Palestinian speech?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:50] \u003c/em>In talking to folks from the DA’s office, they have denied that there is any kind of attempt to quell speech, and instead they have said, you know, this is a very simple case. They’ve tried to focus on that there’s a line in the sand that you are not allowed to cross, even if you feel very passionately about your beliefs that you’re protesting, and that this group of people crossed it. Even in the pretrial motions, the DAs office, you now, asked the judge and was successful in getting a ruling that The defense can’t use the argument that the DA’s office is quelling political speech with this prosecution. So within the walls of the courtroom, that argument’s not gonna fly, and the DAs office has been vocal that this is for them just about enforcing the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:36] \u003c/em>How is the defense talking about this? What have they said about the case publicly? I mean, I assume based on what you’re saying, no one’s disputing whether these students broke into the president’s office and occupied it. So what’s the defense then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, one of the attorneys even told me, you know, earlier in the case that it’s not so much a who done it as a why done it. These protesters aren’t trying to beat the rap, so to speak. And instead, what the defense has tried to highlight is a little bit what we’ve been talking about, which is just the motivations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tony Brass: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:09] \u003c/em>Is this malice or is this done for a greater good? That’s the issue. I mean, these students who are acting for a great or good, and they’re inaction was something they, out of a sense of conscience, couldn’t live with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:23] \u003c/em>Tony Brass is one of the defense attorneys involved, and he told me that, you know, while the charge of vandalism requires malice, he’s saying these students that he’s representing were motivated by what he said was a humanitarian concern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tony Brass: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:38] \u003c/em>They want to present this trial completely sanitized. Just people who’ve analyzed for the sake of analyzing, just to be malicious. And that’s unfair. It’s both intellectually unfair and I hope a judge agrees, legally unfair\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:58] \u003c/em>How present is Israel’s actual bombing and invasion of Gaza in this trial? Because on the one hand, you could say, well, this is about property damage at Stanford, but it also seems difficult for that not to come up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:13] \u003c/em>Yeah, there have been some pretty heated arguments about this very question. The judge and the defense attorney and the DA even had to spend, you know, multiple hours in December in a pre-trial hearing hashing out what the ground rules were going to be because the DA’s office thinks the defense attorneys should not even be allowed to use the word genocide or should not be able to talk extensively about the motivations of their defendants. The defense attorneys, for their part, say, you can’t separate these issues. The reason these students did this is because of this issue. Because they view this as a genocide, because they were trying to stop human suffering. And so, ultimately, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Hanley Chu, in December, kind of laid like a middle ground and said, you know, I’m going to allow limited discussion about genocide and talk about the motivations of the defendants. But if he feels it was going to go too far, then he would take action in the of the trial to limit it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:16] \u003c/em>Has Stanford said anything about this trial? I mean, I understand they had their own disciplinary process earlier, but this trial is about something that happened on their campus. So what have they said about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:29] \u003c/em>At this point, Stanford has mostly stayed out of the public fray, and anytime we’ve done reporting on it, you know, we’re of course asking Stanford almost every time for comment or if they have an opinion on this, but they mostly have stayed out it publicly. The defense attorneys have said they believe Stanford has been behind the scenes pushing for an aggressive prosecution, but there’s no public proof of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:54] \u003c/em>So Joseph, the trial started last Friday and you were in the courtroom. What was it like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>Well, first of all, the courtroom, you know, was full. And it was full of almost completely, as far as I could tell, supporters of the defendants, supporters of protesters. A lot of them are wearing pattern scarves, which are known as kafiyas, which are, you know, a Middle Eastern or an Arab scarf that has become a very, you know, visual signifier of support with Palestinians and Palestinian solidarity. There’s also a lot of folks who have actual, you know, written signs or pieces of paper attached to their clothing that say, you know Stanford, drop the charges. And these folks are filling the courtroom to show solidarity with these students and solidarity with, you they are trying to bring attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>So, I mean, we’re basically at the beginning of the trial, right, and it’s gonna be quite some time before there’s a verdict, sentencing, things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Joseph Geha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:53] \u003c/em>Yes, absolutely. We’re in the early days here, and this could take several weeks to complete. It’s very tough to predict because sometimes an examination of a witness and a cross-examination can take longer than expected, or there can be objections that slow things down. But yeah, we’re at the beginning of what could be a several-week-long case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:17] \u003c/em>Joseph, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Francisco residents are furious with Pacific Gas & Electric after nearly one third of the city was hit by a series of power outages over the holiday season. This public outrage has also revived calls for the city — or even the state — to take over the investor-owned utility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9963352964&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Erika Cruz Guevara, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. A few weeks ago during the holiday season, San Francisco was hit with a series of power outages. Businesses lost customers during the busiest weekend of the year, restaurants had to throw out food, and some people didn’t get their power back for days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Susan Molthen \u003c/strong>[00:00:27] It’s terrible, I have a restaurant and I had a party of over 15-16 people last night and I had to call them all to cancel. This is my livelihood and I can’t, I can’ open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Desi Valdez \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] Haven’t been able to do anything I needed to do. So I’ve just been sitting around in the dark, trying to find motivation, but it’s hard when there’s nothing to turn on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:51] San Francisco residents, especially on the city’s west side, are furious with PG&E. And all this chaos has some people wondering whether it’s time for the city to go even further and take over the investor-owned utility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] It’s time for us to move forward, for San Francisco to be able to break away from PG&E to form our own public utility. We’ve got to get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:17] Today, what it would take for San Francisco to break up with PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:01:26] On December 20th, there was a fire at a substation, like a power substation PG&E in Soma, Mission and Eighth Streets, which led to power outages for roughly a third of San Francisco customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:42] Laura Klivans is a climate reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] The neighborhoods that were most affected were Richmond, sort of the west side, Presidio, parts of the sunset. We even saw some of the Fillmore, some of Hayes Valley, some parts of downtown. For different people, it lasted for different time periods. So if you talk to somebody in the Richmond, they really got it the worst. They got it for sustained periods of time, some up to two or three days, and then multiple outages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:15] I remember that first one that lasted for some residents 48 hours maybe, and there were several more after that, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] Yeah, there were several others after that, not lasting as long. PG&E attempted to fix and restore power. They put in these diesel generators in the Richmond district, which were extremely loud and residents didn’t like those either. And then the impacts on people were significant. A lot of people lost the stuff in their fridge. There was all sorts of regular nuisances. And for businesses too, it was a holiday week, a lot of people were going out to restaurants and stuff and they were losing all their produce or fish or whatever it might be. PG&E has offered to give people money for this stuff, 200 bucks for residents on your credit on your next bill and 2,500 for businesses and you could apply for even more. But for some people, it’s more than just like a nuisance and an inconvenience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:03:15] I’m in a wheelchair. I’m gonna power wheelchair. I wouldn’t be able to charge my chair. I wouldn’t be able get out of my building or into my building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:03:24] I talked to San Francisco residents, including Kai Spencer Martin, about this latest power loss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:03:29] If the power went out, I wouldn’t be able to go out and buy new groceries because my groceries went bad. We’d go hungry. My family. And it’s not just me. It’s me, my husband, my teenage son.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:03:40] Luckily, she said the lights all around her building went out and hers didn’t. And she found out later that they have a backup generator in her building. So she was really lucky. But she’s an example of like how it’s more than just an inconvenience, right? Like it’s just more than eating a weird meal and trying to keep your fridge closed. She also has medications that need to be refrigerated, uses a nebulizer for asthma, and her husband uses a CPAP machine for sleeping.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:04:08] I have other friends that have disabilities that live in some of the downtown SROs that were out of power, um, for days, some of them just went hungry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:25] How much anger were you seeing, and are still seeing, as a result of this power outage and the ones that came after?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:04:34] Yeah, I mean, I think many people are familiar with how people already feel about PG&E. And if you look at like any Reddit forum about this power outage, it’s just like full of livid people, understandably, and people saying, how is this our one choice? People are upset for how much they’re paying for this power that isn’t very reliable. And all of this anger has led for calls for the city to take over PG&e.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:05:07] PG&E is too large. It’s not adequately maintaining its infrastructure as we saw this weekend yet again with the substation that caught on fire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:05:17] State Senator Scott Wiener, he has just recently in the last few days introduced legislation that would make it easier for cities to break away from PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:05:29] When giant corporations put profits over the public interest, it is time for us to act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:05:36] And then we have other local officials supporting it, like San Francisco Supervisor Matt Dorsey. Why is that the solution that many people are thinking about now? Because PG&E is an investor-owned utility, which means it is motivated by profit in part, because they have investors and they need to offer them a return to make it worth them investing in the company. If PG&e were public, it would not have that motivation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Is the idea that a takeover would lead to cheaper and better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:06:11] That’s the idea, yeah. So if you look at some other examples, there are some places that have public power and they are paying way lower rates than people who have PG&E. And also, by having local control, you have more control of the grid that’s in front of you and the priorities in your smaller area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] So how does this happen exactly? Can San Francisco just make PG&E an offer? I mean, is PG&e even for sale in San Francisco or anywhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:06:42] PG&E is not for sale, and they are not interested in selling all their infrastructure in San Francisco, but through a process called eminent domain, it could be possible. And what this would mean would be that San Francisco, it’s within their purview to take private property for public use as long as it pays fair compensation. So it would mean buying the part of the grid that PG&E owns and also paying for the cost of separating that out. We would need to have regulators involved. The California Public Utilities Commission would be involved. This would likely involve a variety of lawsuits because PG&E isn’t interested in this, we’d also need some sort of environmental review. If this all happened and the city and county of San Francisco was able to take over all of these poles and wires that currently belong to PG&E, then you need to staff the organization and run the organization. And I don’t know, who knows how to do that? Former PG&e workers. Maybe you find a whole bunch of new people. There’s just a lot that goes into this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:05] When Sacramento took over its utility and lessons for the rest of us. That’s coming up after the break. Are there examples of other California cities doing this that we can point to? That would be instructive here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:08:30] So, in 1923, Sacramento residents were really fed up with PG&E. They were fed up high rates and poor service, does that sound familiar? So they voted overwhelmingly, 87%, to establish what is called SMUD, the Sacramento Municipal Utility District, which is a public utility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:08:53] In 1923, Sacramento residents voted to establish SMUD, and voters finally approved a $12 million bond to do that in 1934.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:09:05] So I spoke to Mohit Chhabra. He’s an analyst at the Natural Resources Defense Council. He focuses on energy and economics and climate about how this played out in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:09:16] And then it took them 23 years after that to start serving customers as SMUD. Because there were legal battles. PG&E challenged Sacramento’s eminent domain claim in state and federal courts. And you have to figure out exactly how much you need to pay to buy them out and so on. And it took 23 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:09:40] There were operational challenges. SMUD inherited aging infrastructure, poorly maintained infrastructure. They had trouble recruiting workers. They actually had their prices increase around the 70s and 80s. And then now, here we are today, and SMUD is actually doing very well. Their prices are way cheaper than PG&E’s. People seem more happy with it, but it’s taken quite some time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] Are the gains from owning the utility public, worth the amount of money, time and effort that San Francisco would spend to buy out a section of PG&E and start running its own public utility? That’s the key question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:10:38] I mean, I can’t imagine if you’re PG&E right now and you’re seeing all of this anger towards you and you are seeing talk of taking over, buying out your infrastructure in San Francisco. I can imagine they’re thrilled about the idea of this. What has PG&e said about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:10:55] Right. So I reached out to PG&E. They provided me with a statement. You know, they don’t intend to give away or sell their infrastructure in San Francisco. They want to continue to serve San Francisco They also bring up that San Francisco offered to buy PG&Es electric grid in San Francisco in 2019. But that is still in process. And they have said that San Francisco has failed to sort of provide a bunch of things that. Are needed to move forward with that process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] So we’ve established that taking over PG&E would be very expensive. It would take a lot of time. Um, but if San Francisco was able to do this, what could that mean for the rest of the state?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:11:41] There could be a lot of impacts on our neighbors. So for one, if San Francisco opts out of PG&E, prices for the rest of Californians will likely increase. And that’s because some of the more expensive parts of the system and what we’re spending on right now is protecting against wildfires, paying for past wildfires protecting against future ones. And those areas that we need to work on are in more fire prone areas, that’s not San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:12:12] Someone needs to pay for the shared part of the grid. If different parts of the state start doing that, and it’s likely going to be the wealthier cities, it’s the less wealthy cities that are left footing the bill for the grid\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:12:26] This is something Mohit Chhabra has thought a lot about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] The wealthiest cities can buy themselves out. They have the densest grid. They stand to gain the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:12:38] We’d also be removing this source of income for these programs that help offset the cost of PG&E. So about 30% of PG and E customers get reduced bills through programs like one’s called CARE. But that comes from subsidization from everybody paying in. And so if you’re taking off like a wealthier city, then again, those costs are gonna be distributed throughout the rest of the customers that aren’t part of that public power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:14] All this said, Laura, the argument, right, is that if we take over PG&E, we can have more affordable power, more reliable power that isn’t beholden to increasing profits for investors. Do we know whether public power is better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:13:28] So it’s really a mixed bag. It’s like, if you look at SMUD, it’s like works really well. And then if you at Puerto Rico, it hasn’t worked really well, so it just, it depends on implementation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:43] Whether or not San Francisco or even the state of California can take over PG&E, there is this public anger, like now. So where does this, you know, public pressure, where does this anger go in the meantime?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] Yeah. So this anger, you know, even if it doesn’t lead to a public power takeover and, you know, San Francisco power or whatever we would call it, it can go somewhere. This all this public pressure and this intensified scrutiny on the power grid in places where we don’t have wildfire could actually be useful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Toney \u003c/strong>[00:14:19] Maybe it will take a credible campaign to wake up PG&E to what they need to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:14:29] I spoke to Mark Toney, he’s the executive director of the Utility Reform Network. And while his organization doesn’t take a position on local campaigns to create public power entities and believes, you know, communities, this is in your purview to do, he brought up the point that it could increase accountability for PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Toney \u003c/strong>[00:14:50] I don’t want to discourage this campaign, public power campaign, and I’ll tell you why. Because if there is a real threat that they may lose the franchise, maybe that will provide the motivation to do a better job, to bring the rates down, to increase the of their facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:15:15] At least these calls and this pressure might turn PG&E’s attention or the attention of other people who hold them accountable to infrastructure in San Francisco. So you know, maybe public power doesn’t happen, but maybe PG&E prioritizes San Francisco’s infrastructure more than they have.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Francisco residents are furious with Pacific Gas & Electric after nearly one third of the city was hit by a series of power outages over the holiday season. This public outrage has also revived calls for the city — or even the state — to take over the investor-owned utility.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9963352964&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Erika Cruz Guevara, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. A few weeks ago during the holiday season, San Francisco was hit with a series of power outages. Businesses lost customers during the busiest weekend of the year, restaurants had to throw out food, and some people didn’t get their power back for days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Susan Molthen \u003c/strong>[00:00:27] It’s terrible, I have a restaurant and I had a party of over 15-16 people last night and I had to call them all to cancel. This is my livelihood and I can’t, I can’ open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Desi Valdez \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] Haven’t been able to do anything I needed to do. So I’ve just been sitting around in the dark, trying to find motivation, but it’s hard when there’s nothing to turn on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:51] San Francisco residents, especially on the city’s west side, are furious with PG&E. And all this chaos has some people wondering whether it’s time for the city to go even further and take over the investor-owned utility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] It’s time for us to move forward, for San Francisco to be able to break away from PG&E to form our own public utility. We’ve got to get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:17] Today, what it would take for San Francisco to break up with PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:01:26] On December 20th, there was a fire at a substation, like a power substation PG&E in Soma, Mission and Eighth Streets, which led to power outages for roughly a third of San Francisco customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:42] Laura Klivans is a climate reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] The neighborhoods that were most affected were Richmond, sort of the west side, Presidio, parts of the sunset. We even saw some of the Fillmore, some of Hayes Valley, some parts of downtown. For different people, it lasted for different time periods. So if you talk to somebody in the Richmond, they really got it the worst. They got it for sustained periods of time, some up to two or three days, and then multiple outages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:15] I remember that first one that lasted for some residents 48 hours maybe, and there were several more after that, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] Yeah, there were several others after that, not lasting as long. PG&E attempted to fix and restore power. They put in these diesel generators in the Richmond district, which were extremely loud and residents didn’t like those either. And then the impacts on people were significant. A lot of people lost the stuff in their fridge. There was all sorts of regular nuisances. And for businesses too, it was a holiday week, a lot of people were going out to restaurants and stuff and they were losing all their produce or fish or whatever it might be. PG&E has offered to give people money for this stuff, 200 bucks for residents on your credit on your next bill and 2,500 for businesses and you could apply for even more. But for some people, it’s more than just like a nuisance and an inconvenience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:03:15] I’m in a wheelchair. I’m gonna power wheelchair. I wouldn’t be able to charge my chair. I wouldn’t be able get out of my building or into my building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:03:24] I talked to San Francisco residents, including Kai Spencer Martin, about this latest power loss.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:03:29] If the power went out, I wouldn’t be able to go out and buy new groceries because my groceries went bad. We’d go hungry. My family. And it’s not just me. It’s me, my husband, my teenage son.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:03:40] Luckily, she said the lights all around her building went out and hers didn’t. And she found out later that they have a backup generator in her building. So she was really lucky. But she’s an example of like how it’s more than just an inconvenience, right? Like it’s just more than eating a weird meal and trying to keep your fridge closed. She also has medications that need to be refrigerated, uses a nebulizer for asthma, and her husband uses a CPAP machine for sleeping.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kai Spencer-Martin \u003c/strong>[00:04:08] I have other friends that have disabilities that live in some of the downtown SROs that were out of power, um, for days, some of them just went hungry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:25] How much anger were you seeing, and are still seeing, as a result of this power outage and the ones that came after?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:04:34] Yeah, I mean, I think many people are familiar with how people already feel about PG&E. And if you look at like any Reddit forum about this power outage, it’s just like full of livid people, understandably, and people saying, how is this our one choice? People are upset for how much they’re paying for this power that isn’t very reliable. And all of this anger has led for calls for the city to take over PG&e.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:05:07] PG&E is too large. It’s not adequately maintaining its infrastructure as we saw this weekend yet again with the substation that caught on fire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:05:17] State Senator Scott Wiener, he has just recently in the last few days introduced legislation that would make it easier for cities to break away from PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Wiener \u003c/strong>[00:05:29] When giant corporations put profits over the public interest, it is time for us to act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:05:36] And then we have other local officials supporting it, like San Francisco Supervisor Matt Dorsey. Why is that the solution that many people are thinking about now? Because PG&E is an investor-owned utility, which means it is motivated by profit in part, because they have investors and they need to offer them a return to make it worth them investing in the company. If PG&e were public, it would not have that motivation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Is the idea that a takeover would lead to cheaper and better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:06:11] That’s the idea, yeah. So if you look at some other examples, there are some places that have public power and they are paying way lower rates than people who have PG&E. And also, by having local control, you have more control of the grid that’s in front of you and the priorities in your smaller area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] So how does this happen exactly? Can San Francisco just make PG&E an offer? I mean, is PG&e even for sale in San Francisco or anywhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:06:42] PG&E is not for sale, and they are not interested in selling all their infrastructure in San Francisco, but through a process called eminent domain, it could be possible. And what this would mean would be that San Francisco, it’s within their purview to take private property for public use as long as it pays fair compensation. So it would mean buying the part of the grid that PG&E owns and also paying for the cost of separating that out. We would need to have regulators involved. The California Public Utilities Commission would be involved. This would likely involve a variety of lawsuits because PG&E isn’t interested in this, we’d also need some sort of environmental review. If this all happened and the city and county of San Francisco was able to take over all of these poles and wires that currently belong to PG&E, then you need to staff the organization and run the organization. And I don’t know, who knows how to do that? Former PG&e workers. Maybe you find a whole bunch of new people. There’s just a lot that goes into this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:05] When Sacramento took over its utility and lessons for the rest of us. That’s coming up after the break. Are there examples of other California cities doing this that we can point to? That would be instructive here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:08:30] So, in 1923, Sacramento residents were really fed up with PG&E. They were fed up high rates and poor service, does that sound familiar? So they voted overwhelmingly, 87%, to establish what is called SMUD, the Sacramento Municipal Utility District, which is a public utility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:08:53] In 1923, Sacramento residents voted to establish SMUD, and voters finally approved a $12 million bond to do that in 1934.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:09:05] So I spoke to Mohit Chhabra. He’s an analyst at the Natural Resources Defense Council. He focuses on energy and economics and climate about how this played out in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:09:16] And then it took them 23 years after that to start serving customers as SMUD. Because there were legal battles. PG&E challenged Sacramento’s eminent domain claim in state and federal courts. And you have to figure out exactly how much you need to pay to buy them out and so on. And it took 23 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:09:40] There were operational challenges. SMUD inherited aging infrastructure, poorly maintained infrastructure. They had trouble recruiting workers. They actually had their prices increase around the 70s and 80s. And then now, here we are today, and SMUD is actually doing very well. Their prices are way cheaper than PG&E’s. People seem more happy with it, but it’s taken quite some time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] Are the gains from owning the utility public, worth the amount of money, time and effort that San Francisco would spend to buy out a section of PG&E and start running its own public utility? That’s the key question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:10:38] I mean, I can’t imagine if you’re PG&E right now and you’re seeing all of this anger towards you and you are seeing talk of taking over, buying out your infrastructure in San Francisco. I can imagine they’re thrilled about the idea of this. What has PG&e said about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:10:55] Right. So I reached out to PG&E. They provided me with a statement. You know, they don’t intend to give away or sell their infrastructure in San Francisco. They want to continue to serve San Francisco They also bring up that San Francisco offered to buy PG&Es electric grid in San Francisco in 2019. But that is still in process. And they have said that San Francisco has failed to sort of provide a bunch of things that. Are needed to move forward with that process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] So we’ve established that taking over PG&E would be very expensive. It would take a lot of time. Um, but if San Francisco was able to do this, what could that mean for the rest of the state?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:11:41] There could be a lot of impacts on our neighbors. So for one, if San Francisco opts out of PG&E, prices for the rest of Californians will likely increase. And that’s because some of the more expensive parts of the system and what we’re spending on right now is protecting against wildfires, paying for past wildfires protecting against future ones. And those areas that we need to work on are in more fire prone areas, that’s not San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:12:12] Someone needs to pay for the shared part of the grid. If different parts of the state start doing that, and it’s likely going to be the wealthier cities, it’s the less wealthy cities that are left footing the bill for the grid\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:12:26] This is something Mohit Chhabra has thought a lot about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mohit Chhabra \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] The wealthiest cities can buy themselves out. They have the densest grid. They stand to gain the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:12:38] We’d also be removing this source of income for these programs that help offset the cost of PG&E. So about 30% of PG and E customers get reduced bills through programs like one’s called CARE. But that comes from subsidization from everybody paying in. And so if you’re taking off like a wealthier city, then again, those costs are gonna be distributed throughout the rest of the customers that aren’t part of that public power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:14] All this said, Laura, the argument, right, is that if we take over PG&E, we can have more affordable power, more reliable power that isn’t beholden to increasing profits for investors. Do we know whether public power is better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:13:28] So it’s really a mixed bag. It’s like, if you look at SMUD, it’s like works really well. And then if you at Puerto Rico, it hasn’t worked really well, so it just, it depends on implementation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:43] Whether or not San Francisco or even the state of California can take over PG&E, there is this public anger, like now. So where does this, you know, public pressure, where does this anger go in the meantime?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] Yeah. So this anger, you know, even if it doesn’t lead to a public power takeover and, you know, San Francisco power or whatever we would call it, it can go somewhere. This all this public pressure and this intensified scrutiny on the power grid in places where we don’t have wildfire could actually be useful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Toney \u003c/strong>[00:14:19] Maybe it will take a credible campaign to wake up PG&E to what they need to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:14:29] I spoke to Mark Toney, he’s the executive director of the Utility Reform Network. And while his organization doesn’t take a position on local campaigns to create public power entities and believes, you know, communities, this is in your purview to do, he brought up the point that it could increase accountability for PG&E.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Toney \u003c/strong>[00:14:50] I don’t want to discourage this campaign, public power campaign, and I’ll tell you why. Because if there is a real threat that they may lose the franchise, maybe that will provide the motivation to do a better job, to bring the rates down, to increase the of their facilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans \u003c/strong>[00:15:15] At least these calls and this pressure might turn PG&E’s attention or the attention of other people who hold them accountable to infrastructure in San Francisco. So you know, maybe public power doesn’t happen, but maybe PG&E prioritizes San Francisco’s infrastructure more than they have.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "For Marin County, Last Weekend’s Floods Were a Wake-Up Call",
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"headTitle": "For Marin County, Last Weekend’s Floods Were a Wake-Up Call | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Last weekend’s storms, coupled with king tides, caught Marin County cities like Corte Madera, Sausalito and San Rafael off guard. Floodwaters spilled over levees, covered bike trails, and surrounded homes and businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nobody was seriously injured and the level of damage is still being assessed. But it’s a wake-up call for residents, both in Marin County and across the Bay Area, about the risk of more flooding in our future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3713712008&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12068644/marin-county-looked-like-a-lagoon-after-king-tides-heavy-rain\">Marin County Looked Like ‘a Lagoon’ After King Tides, Heavy Rain | KQED\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. The Bay Area had a rough few weeks of holiday weather. It was cold, we got a lot of rain, and some places even got intense flooding, especially Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:24] Tides we had for the Bay Area many locations the highest we’ve seen since 1998. Business owners in Marin County who dealt with feet of standing water over the weekend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:34] King tides and heavy rain once again flooding low-lying areas across the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:39] And for the fourth straight day, Marin County is getting the worst of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:44] Cities like Corte Madera, Sausalito, and San Rafael were caught off guard by the intensity of the storms coupled with king tides. Floodwaters spilled over levees, covered bike trails, and surrounded homes and businesses. For residents and officials like Corte Madera Mayor Rosa Thomas, the flooding was a reminder of how everyone needs to be ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rosa Thomas \u003c/strong>[00:01:11] It’s not just the person who has the property facing the bay, but it will tie up the entire town. And I think that that is a call for us to be united in tackling this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] Today, the flooding in Marin and what can be done to get us ready for the next storm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:01:44] We were very dry for a long time this winter, right? I think we had a couple weeks of like very little rain and then there was like a bunch of rain around Christmas, right? And then like another set of storms this past weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:58] Ezra David Romero is a climate reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:02] And so the ground was really saturated and then we had a king tide and then a low pressure system just a regular a storm all happening at the same time. So it created like the perfect conditions you know for extra flooding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:18] Well, and you went with local and federal leaders in Marin earlier in the week to assess the damage. Where did you go? What did you see?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:27] We started off in San Rafael, just north of there, in an uncorporated community. And then we went to Marin City, we went to Sausalito, we just basically started north and then made our way down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:02:42] Everybody got their rain gear?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:46] This was a group of like many elected leaders and reporters and one of them was Supervisor Mary Sackett from Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:02:54] The tide is out, but you can see here where the docks are, show you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:00] On this tour, Supervisor Mary Sackett brought us to multiple places across the county, you know, where places had been flooded, or like a levee had broke, or, you know, a business was underwater, things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:03:13] And you can tell by looking at some of these homes that they are under the water level. If you walk out on that island in particular, you look and you’re like, they’re really under sea level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:28] One thing that’s interesting about Marin County is if you’re driving over the Golden Gate Bridge, you’re like in the mountains, right? And then you come down Highway 101 and you’re pretty close to the bay and then it shoots up to the mountains. So we’re not talking about a huge area. It’s like the sliver of land that’s rather low-lying, but it’s very populated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:03:49] There’s a lot of young families here. There’s lot of older families here, this is not the most affluent part of Marin. It’s lower than the average median income for the county and the cost of flood insurance is significant. In.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] And the big issue there is that a lot of that flatland area is land that wasn’t there before. Land we filled in as people, it’s called fill. You know, some of that was marshland, or it was like soggy, or it like physically the bay. And we built land there, we put sand and dirt there, and then we built on top of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] Oh, is that what reclaimed land is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] That’s what reclaimed land is, yeah. So in some way, it makes sense that these areas would want to flood again, right? And especially over time, they’re also sinking because buildings are heavy, the land is settling. So at the same time, the king tides are happening, there’s storms. All that together makes this like perfect storm of like flood proneness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:47] Was there damage to roads, buildings, was anyone hurt?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:51] I haven’t heard of any reports of anyone hurt so far, but I have talked to a number of people that said their cars have been flooded, homes and businesses have also been flooded. Mary Sackett says that there’s about a couple hundred places across Marin County that have flooded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:05:07] And so the streets were very flooded during that King Tide event. And many of the yards, homes, etc. Thank you very much. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:05:20] Well, I can’t imagine what it was like for local businesses during this intense flooding. I know you met the manager of a local gym. Tell me what happened to their business.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:35] I met a lot of business owners in my reporting, but on my first reporting trip, I met Ryan Davis. He’s the general manager of FitnessSF in Corte Madera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:05:44] So we’ve had events like this in 2005, about 20 years ago, and then in 98. So we’ll remember those, so we’ve tried to be as ready as possible. But we weren’t ready for the scale that ended up coming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] It’s actually a place I’ve worked out before. When I’ve been reporting out there, I just go there because I’m a member there. It was interesting to go there with a three-foot line of sandbags and tarps. He said that the lagoon right behind their business was overflowing like a waterfall into their parking lot, and the water was trying to get in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:06:23] The exits and entrances, the water got up so high around the edge of the building probably I would say at least three feet of standing water surrounding the entire building that even with sandbags and plywood and tarps it was still coming through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:06:37] They were pretty proactive. They were like shop vacing the water out. He said they built one row of sandbags and they built another one because water was getting in. So they were like fighting to make sure the gym, you know, was going to be there for the gym rats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:52] Well, I mean, that does sound like a lot of adrenaline, but like not the kind you’re hoping for when you go to the gym. So I want to talk about the cause of this round of flooding. So it seems like thankfully no one was hurt. The amount of damage is still being assessed, but, but that it was, you know, really scary and intense for a lot of residents. What actually caused all of this damage and all of his flooding? It was the heavy rain, sea level rise, help me understand it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:21] A bit of it all, honestly. King tides are natural. It happens when the sun and moon are both at their closest to the earth, that pulls on the ocean with their strongest gravitational force. So basically, the high tide and the low tides, are going to be the biggest and lowest in that day. King Kong tides happen multiple times a year, usually in the winter. And there are other high tides at other times of the year. But what was different this time was that there was a king tide, there was storm, things were already over saturated and it was windy. So all these things together made that flooding worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] Ezra, how prepared was the county for this flooding? I mean, is there any kind of warning system, like, hey, there’s a high risk of flooding today or this week?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:21] The thing I heard over and over in my reporting this week, whether it was on Monday or in interviews on Tuesday or yesterday when I was out in San Rafael, is everyone was saying this caught them by surprise. We knew that King Tides were happening. The Weather Service puts out reports every single day. They send out to the cities, counties, journalists. We get those every single. So we knew the King Tide’s were happening, but the Weather Service did say is that You know, the storm outperformed their own forecast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:49] Where does climate change factor in here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:51] When it comes to storms, it’s hard to say how much in each storm human-caused climate change is infusing into that storm. But scientists have said that all storms are getting wetter because of climate change. Scientists often think of king tides as like the foreshadowing of the future when it comes to sea level rise in California the state is preparing for about like a foot of sea level rise by 2050 and like as many as six feet by 2100 and that’s basically like no ice sheets are melting You know filling up the ocean and then the oceans also expanding as it warms You know, as a byproduct, seas rise, and that will have an effect all over the world. Places like the Bay Area, right, where we have like 400 plus miles of shoreline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] Yeah, there’s a line in your story that reads, “the high tides of today will become the daily tides of the future.” So king tides, normal thing that happens, but sea level rise plus wetter storms equals higher risk of dangerous flooding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:00] Yeah, when I talked to even to the Weather Service person who was out there on Monday, he was telling me that, you know, like, yeah, we think of these tides as what’s going to happen maybe regularly in the future. It won’t be just like a once in occurrence in 20 years type of thing. Basically, the message that I heard on Monday was like, we got to take this seriously, because like, Yeah, we this is like one time in a long time. This has flooded this badly, but we’re not very prepared in the long if this is going to happen. All the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:10:37] So let’s talk a little more about what can be done here. I mean, what safeguards are there, what needs to be done to prepare for this kind of thing in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:47] Yeah, I can’t quite answer what’s gonna be best for each community, but like there are things that people have done across the region, around the world. Done everything from like put in pumps to pump water out, they’ve built seawalls, they’ve like created these levees to soak up water, they’ve raised homes. In other parts of the world, they actually like have houses and buildings floating, right, so they’re going up and down with the tides. There’s like many things that can be done as like an immediate solution or a long-term one. Regionally, we have something called the Bay Conservation Development Commission that’s like a state agency. They have tasked every city, Every county in the Bay Area that’s touching the Bay and the coast to come up with a sea level rise plan by like 2034. And each city is sort of thinking about that, like how do we deal with this? But there are some big issues in the future for this. A lot of this is private land, you know, homes, businesses. Then you have this like pea soup of highways, right? You have the bridge coming from Richmond, you have Highway 101. So there’s lots to think about here, and it’s not an easy thing of like, let’s just build a seawall. It’s gonna take lots of going back and forth. There’s no real easy answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:12:13] Right, and I imagine there are so many agencies and municipalities and different economic political interests that might make a region-wide approach challenging. Is there money for these kinds of plans? Is that also going to be a challenge?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:12:30] Money is probably the biggest issue here. There was a lot of hope under the past administration that was heavily funding climate things, that we could get some of these projects built.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:12:41] We have a plan that is shovel ready to build a sheet pile wall, which would replace this timber reinforced berm, which is about over 40 years old, and we applied for the brick and the FMA grants for some federal dollars for this, and both of those grants were canceled under this administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:00] These funding challengers are really real for a lot of these communities. And Supervisor Mary Sackett talked about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] The neighborhood hopes we do not give up on funding that. We’ve just got too many people living in this neighborhood that with any overtopping, not only would the homes right on Vendola be flooded, but the network of roads for everyone who’s out here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:22] We’re not talking about like a million dollars, right? We’re talking about tens of millions of dollars, maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars just to have these solutions in place because it takes a lot of time and a lot of money buying land, raising highways, re-imagining how communities work all in a small area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:13:41] You know, one of my frustrations is do we have to wait until there’s a disaster, or can we prevent the disaster from happening? And you know, we’ve really been focused on how do we prevent a significant disaster from happening here? How are we ready if dollars become available?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:14:04] So lots of work to be done to beef up protection against floods, not just in Marin, but all over the Bay Area. I also feel like as an individual, I’ve had to think a lot more about how I myself am prepared for various incoming natural disasters, whether it’s a fire or power outages or an earthquake. What does this mean for people in the meantime? Like, should I be going to Home Depot ASAP to buy sandbags?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:14:35] Yes, I think so, right? If I lived next to the bay, right across the street or something, or even relatively close, I would probably have sandbags ready to go. This is an interesting moment where people are thinking about this because the water was just here. But I think with wildfire and other things, or drought, we often forget about it, that You know, we live in a flood-prone area. When the waters go away and it’s summertime and it is warm and we’re out on the water surfing or whatever. So I think the time now is to actually get prepared before you forget about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:17] Well, that’s a solid New Year’s resolution, Ezra. Thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:15:23] Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Last weekend’s storms, coupled with king tides, caught Marin County cities like Corte Madera, Sausalito and San Rafael off guard. Floodwaters spilled over levees, covered bike trails, and surrounded homes and businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nobody was seriously injured and the level of damage is still being assessed. But it’s a wake-up call for residents, both in Marin County and across the Bay Area, about the risk of more flooding in our future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3713712008&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12068644/marin-county-looked-like-a-lagoon-after-king-tides-heavy-rain\">Marin County Looked Like ‘a Lagoon’ After King Tides, Heavy Rain | KQED\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] Hi, I’m Alan Montecillo, in for Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. The Bay Area had a rough few weeks of holiday weather. It was cold, we got a lot of rain, and some places even got intense flooding, especially Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:24] Tides we had for the Bay Area many locations the highest we’ve seen since 1998. Business owners in Marin County who dealt with feet of standing water over the weekend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:34] King tides and heavy rain once again flooding low-lying areas across the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>TV newscast \u003c/strong>[00:00:39] And for the fourth straight day, Marin County is getting the worst of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:44] Cities like Corte Madera, Sausalito, and San Rafael were caught off guard by the intensity of the storms coupled with king tides. Floodwaters spilled over levees, covered bike trails, and surrounded homes and businesses. For residents and officials like Corte Madera Mayor Rosa Thomas, the flooding was a reminder of how everyone needs to be ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rosa Thomas \u003c/strong>[00:01:11] It’s not just the person who has the property facing the bay, but it will tie up the entire town. And I think that that is a call for us to be united in tackling this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] Today, the flooding in Marin and what can be done to get us ready for the next storm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:01:44] We were very dry for a long time this winter, right? I think we had a couple weeks of like very little rain and then there was like a bunch of rain around Christmas, right? And then like another set of storms this past weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:01:58] Ezra David Romero is a climate reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:02] And so the ground was really saturated and then we had a king tide and then a low pressure system just a regular a storm all happening at the same time. So it created like the perfect conditions you know for extra flooding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:18] Well, and you went with local and federal leaders in Marin earlier in the week to assess the damage. Where did you go? What did you see?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:27] We started off in San Rafael, just north of there, in an uncorporated community. And then we went to Marin City, we went to Sausalito, we just basically started north and then made our way down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:02:42] Everybody got their rain gear?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:46] This was a group of like many elected leaders and reporters and one of them was Supervisor Mary Sackett from Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:02:54] The tide is out, but you can see here where the docks are, show you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:00] On this tour, Supervisor Mary Sackett brought us to multiple places across the county, you know, where places had been flooded, or like a levee had broke, or, you know, a business was underwater, things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:03:13] And you can tell by looking at some of these homes that they are under the water level. If you walk out on that island in particular, you look and you’re like, they’re really under sea level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:28] One thing that’s interesting about Marin County is if you’re driving over the Golden Gate Bridge, you’re like in the mountains, right? And then you come down Highway 101 and you’re pretty close to the bay and then it shoots up to the mountains. So we’re not talking about a huge area. It’s like the sliver of land that’s rather low-lying, but it’s very populated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:03:49] There’s a lot of young families here. There’s lot of older families here, this is not the most affluent part of Marin. It’s lower than the average median income for the county and the cost of flood insurance is significant. In.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] And the big issue there is that a lot of that flatland area is land that wasn’t there before. Land we filled in as people, it’s called fill. You know, some of that was marshland, or it was like soggy, or it like physically the bay. And we built land there, we put sand and dirt there, and then we built on top of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] Oh, is that what reclaimed land is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] That’s what reclaimed land is, yeah. So in some way, it makes sense that these areas would want to flood again, right? And especially over time, they’re also sinking because buildings are heavy, the land is settling. So at the same time, the king tides are happening, there’s storms. All that together makes this like perfect storm of like flood proneness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:47] Was there damage to roads, buildings, was anyone hurt?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:51] I haven’t heard of any reports of anyone hurt so far, but I have talked to a number of people that said their cars have been flooded, homes and businesses have also been flooded. Mary Sackett says that there’s about a couple hundred places across Marin County that have flooded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:05:07] And so the streets were very flooded during that King Tide event. And many of the yards, homes, etc. Thank you very much. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:05:20] Well, I can’t imagine what it was like for local businesses during this intense flooding. I know you met the manager of a local gym. Tell me what happened to their business.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:35] I met a lot of business owners in my reporting, but on my first reporting trip, I met Ryan Davis. He’s the general manager of FitnessSF in Corte Madera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:05:44] So we’ve had events like this in 2005, about 20 years ago, and then in 98. So we’ll remember those, so we’ve tried to be as ready as possible. But we weren’t ready for the scale that ended up coming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] It’s actually a place I’ve worked out before. When I’ve been reporting out there, I just go there because I’m a member there. It was interesting to go there with a three-foot line of sandbags and tarps. He said that the lagoon right behind their business was overflowing like a waterfall into their parking lot, and the water was trying to get in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ryan Davis \u003c/strong>[00:06:23] The exits and entrances, the water got up so high around the edge of the building probably I would say at least three feet of standing water surrounding the entire building that even with sandbags and plywood and tarps it was still coming through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:06:37] They were pretty proactive. They were like shop vacing the water out. He said they built one row of sandbags and they built another one because water was getting in. So they were like fighting to make sure the gym, you know, was going to be there for the gym rats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:52] Well, I mean, that does sound like a lot of adrenaline, but like not the kind you’re hoping for when you go to the gym. So I want to talk about the cause of this round of flooding. So it seems like thankfully no one was hurt. The amount of damage is still being assessed, but, but that it was, you know, really scary and intense for a lot of residents. What actually caused all of this damage and all of his flooding? It was the heavy rain, sea level rise, help me understand it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:21] A bit of it all, honestly. King tides are natural. It happens when the sun and moon are both at their closest to the earth, that pulls on the ocean with their strongest gravitational force. So basically, the high tide and the low tides, are going to be the biggest and lowest in that day. King Kong tides happen multiple times a year, usually in the winter. And there are other high tides at other times of the year. But what was different this time was that there was a king tide, there was storm, things were already over saturated and it was windy. So all these things together made that flooding worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] Ezra, how prepared was the county for this flooding? I mean, is there any kind of warning system, like, hey, there’s a high risk of flooding today or this week?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:21] The thing I heard over and over in my reporting this week, whether it was on Monday or in interviews on Tuesday or yesterday when I was out in San Rafael, is everyone was saying this caught them by surprise. We knew that King Tides were happening. The Weather Service puts out reports every single day. They send out to the cities, counties, journalists. We get those every single. So we knew the King Tide’s were happening, but the Weather Service did say is that You know, the storm outperformed their own forecast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:49] Where does climate change factor in here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:51] When it comes to storms, it’s hard to say how much in each storm human-caused climate change is infusing into that storm. But scientists have said that all storms are getting wetter because of climate change. Scientists often think of king tides as like the foreshadowing of the future when it comes to sea level rise in California the state is preparing for about like a foot of sea level rise by 2050 and like as many as six feet by 2100 and that’s basically like no ice sheets are melting You know filling up the ocean and then the oceans also expanding as it warms You know, as a byproduct, seas rise, and that will have an effect all over the world. Places like the Bay Area, right, where we have like 400 plus miles of shoreline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] Yeah, there’s a line in your story that reads, “the high tides of today will become the daily tides of the future.” So king tides, normal thing that happens, but sea level rise plus wetter storms equals higher risk of dangerous flooding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:00] Yeah, when I talked to even to the Weather Service person who was out there on Monday, he was telling me that, you know, like, yeah, we think of these tides as what’s going to happen maybe regularly in the future. It won’t be just like a once in occurrence in 20 years type of thing. Basically, the message that I heard on Monday was like, we got to take this seriously, because like, Yeah, we this is like one time in a long time. This has flooded this badly, but we’re not very prepared in the long if this is going to happen. All the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:10:37] So let’s talk a little more about what can be done here. I mean, what safeguards are there, what needs to be done to prepare for this kind of thing in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:47] Yeah, I can’t quite answer what’s gonna be best for each community, but like there are things that people have done across the region, around the world. Done everything from like put in pumps to pump water out, they’ve built seawalls, they’ve like created these levees to soak up water, they’ve raised homes. In other parts of the world, they actually like have houses and buildings floating, right, so they’re going up and down with the tides. There’s like many things that can be done as like an immediate solution or a long-term one. Regionally, we have something called the Bay Conservation Development Commission that’s like a state agency. They have tasked every city, Every county in the Bay Area that’s touching the Bay and the coast to come up with a sea level rise plan by like 2034. And each city is sort of thinking about that, like how do we deal with this? But there are some big issues in the future for this. A lot of this is private land, you know, homes, businesses. Then you have this like pea soup of highways, right? You have the bridge coming from Richmond, you have Highway 101. So there’s lots to think about here, and it’s not an easy thing of like, let’s just build a seawall. It’s gonna take lots of going back and forth. There’s no real easy answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:12:13] Right, and I imagine there are so many agencies and municipalities and different economic political interests that might make a region-wide approach challenging. Is there money for these kinds of plans? Is that also going to be a challenge?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:12:30] Money is probably the biggest issue here. There was a lot of hope under the past administration that was heavily funding climate things, that we could get some of these projects built.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:12:41] We have a plan that is shovel ready to build a sheet pile wall, which would replace this timber reinforced berm, which is about over 40 years old, and we applied for the brick and the FMA grants for some federal dollars for this, and both of those grants were canceled under this administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:00] These funding challengers are really real for a lot of these communities. And Supervisor Mary Sackett talked about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] The neighborhood hopes we do not give up on funding that. We’ve just got too many people living in this neighborhood that with any overtopping, not only would the homes right on Vendola be flooded, but the network of roads for everyone who’s out here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:22] We’re not talking about like a million dollars, right? We’re talking about tens of millions of dollars, maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars just to have these solutions in place because it takes a lot of time and a lot of money buying land, raising highways, re-imagining how communities work all in a small area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mary Sackett \u003c/strong>[00:13:41] You know, one of my frustrations is do we have to wait until there’s a disaster, or can we prevent the disaster from happening? And you know, we’ve really been focused on how do we prevent a significant disaster from happening here? How are we ready if dollars become available?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:14:04] So lots of work to be done to beef up protection against floods, not just in Marin, but all over the Bay Area. I also feel like as an individual, I’ve had to think a lot more about how I myself am prepared for various incoming natural disasters, whether it’s a fire or power outages or an earthquake. What does this mean for people in the meantime? Like, should I be going to Home Depot ASAP to buy sandbags?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:14:35] Yes, I think so, right? If I lived next to the bay, right across the street or something, or even relatively close, I would probably have sandbags ready to go. This is an interesting moment where people are thinking about this because the water was just here. But I think with wildfire and other things, or drought, we often forget about it, that You know, we live in a flood-prone area. When the waters go away and it’s summertime and it is warm and we’re out on the water surfing or whatever. So I think the time now is to actually get prepared before you forget about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:17] Well, that’s a solid New Year’s resolution, Ezra. Thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"id": "baycurious",
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"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
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},
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/",
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},
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"tagline": "California, day by day",
"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1MDAyODE4NTgz",
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},
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"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
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"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
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},
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"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
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"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
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"order": 1
},
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"meta": {
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},
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},
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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},
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"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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},
"freakonomics-radio": {
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"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
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"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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}
},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"subscribe": {
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"
}
},
"morning-edition": {
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