Earful is a KQED Arts column celebrating the masterminds behind some of the coolest podcasts out there and the motivations behind their work.
Nancy's Kathy Tu and Tobin Low on Podcasting as Friends Across Coasts
Producer of 'Ear Hustle,' Radiotopia's New Podcast, On the Reality of Prison Life
The Allusionist's Helen Zaltzman on the Pioneer Days of Podcasting
‘You Must Remember This' Returns with New Season Focusing on Death
Expanding Your Consciousness with Shane Mauss’s Podcast ‘Here We Are’
Karina Longworth Talks 'You Must Remember This' Before Going on Hiatus
'The World According to Sound' Lets Listeners Create Their Own Experiences
Matt Gourley on Podcasts' Early Days and Learning Production on the Fly
Serial's Julie Snyder on Storytelling, the Military and Amateur Sleuths
Sponsored
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Follow him on Twitter \u003ca href=\"http://twitter.com/joshuaboat\">@joshuaboat\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f060759cb27bc8b191022334ab99fc5a?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":null,"facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"arts","roles":["author"]}],"headData":{"title":"Joshua Bote | KQED","description":null,"ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f060759cb27bc8b191022334ab99fc5a?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f060759cb27bc8b191022334ab99fc5a?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/jbote"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"arts","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"arts_13808710":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13808710","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13808710","score":null,"sort":[1505660441000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"nancys-kathy-tu-and-tobin-low-on-podcasting-as-friends-across-coasts","title":"Nancy's Kathy Tu and Tobin Low on Podcasting as Friends Across Coasts","publishDate":1505660441,"format":"image","headTitle":"Nancy’s Kathy Tu and Tobin Low on Podcasting as Friends Across Coasts | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>Kathy Tu and Tobin Low, the hosts and managing editors of WNYC Studios’ stellar LGBT-centered podcast \u003ca href=\"http://nancypodcast.org\">\u003cem>Nancy,\u003c/em>\u003c/a> are really, really good friends. They went to Disneyland after finishing Season 1. They also send each other clips from their favorite queer rom-coms. (Tobin’s is ‘90s Ang Lee flick \u003cem>The Wedding Banquet\u003c/em>; Kathy’s is queer-gal rom-com \u003cem>Imagine Me and You\u003c/em>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not to say that \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em>‘s just a back-and-forth between the two. There’s a heft to each \u003cem>Nancy \u003c/em>episode that underscores their mutual background in traditional radio journalism. Tu and Low have produced for the likes of \u003cem>Radiolab\u003c/em> and\u003cem> Marketplace, \u003c/em>and that expertise shines in their reporting — especially in their coverage of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/us/year-after-pulse-massacre-blessings-and-frustrations-abound.html?_r=0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Pulse massacre\u003c/a> and the population’s views on gender identity. But it’s also worth tuning in just to hear Tu and Low’s repartee talking about the queer subtext of\u003cem> The Golden Girls\u003c/em> and \u003cem>Harry Potter.\u003c/em> \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> often feels like a giggly brunch date with two pals who dole out killer compliments and jokes on a whim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I got to speak to Tu and Low right as\u003cem> Nancy\u003c/em> was rolling out its \u003ca href=\"https://project.wnyc.org/nancy/out-at-work/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Out at Work\u003c/a> project, a series on the endless process of coming out in the workplace. Though we covered plenty of ground, I was left wanting to spend a whole day with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What sorts of stories are you two most interested in covering on Nancy?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Moments of transition are interesting, and so is thinking about your own identity as you’re coming into it or as it changes. A lot of people think that once you figured out who you are that’s the end of it. But maybe their road’s not done yet, and I truly enjoy sharing stories about people figuring out that moment, because it’s a hard thing to do alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We also want\u003cem> Nancy\u003c/em> to be about queer joy, so we try to make sure that we’re also celebrating happiness and love and being exuberant in some way. It’s where you can go and look to people living full, vibrant lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you ensure that \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> treads as much ground on a variety of queer and trans issues?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: When we were developing \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em>, we wanted to avoid playing the role of the experts. One way to avoid it is to have a lot of stories come through the door and let the show be a pastiche of many stories so that you feel like any one person you’re hearing can talk very personally, and that they don’t have to talk about the total queer experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a wonderful challenge because there are so many people who are waiting to have their stories told. We’re constantly checking ourselves by asking “who is still an important story that we need to get to put on the docket and push and think about?” And we need to find the right story, too. We want to avoid interviews that feel like they’re just defining a thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/NancyPodcast/status/905052909108215808\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>This season, you’re starting a project titled ‘Out at Work.’ Can you tell me more about it, and where the idea came from?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We were talking about what were some big things we wanted to tackle for Season 2. The thing about work is that it touches so many people’s lives in how you try to become an adult and how you take care of yourself and how you live your life in the day-to-day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are stories here about how we are in the situation that we are with the rights that we have at the federal and state level. There’s also everyday stories where it comes up a billion times a day at work. If you’re not out, do you avoid avoid pronouns or who your partner is? \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For us, that’s a really interesting storytelling opportunity, so what we’re really interested in is our listener base. We want to have them on the show so that they can talk about the whole range of stories that they have about being out at work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: It’s a chance for us to hear from people from across the nation and not just from the coastal cities, where we think that we have all the protections that we need or want. We want to hear from the people who don’t, and how they deal with what they have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Did you have experiences where you couldn’t be fully out at work? If so, how did you cope?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: In one of my previous lives, I worked as an emergency medical technician in L.A.. At that time, I did not feel comfortable at all being out. It wasn’t a matter of whether I had rights or not, but the environment made it feel as if I couldn’t come out. I only lasted a year. After I quit, I said to myself I would never work jobs where I had to hide that part of myself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13808786\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13808786\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-800x429.jpg\" alt=\"The hosts of 'Nancy' in California\" width=\"800\" height=\"429\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-800x429.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-160x86.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-768x412.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-240x129.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-375x201.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-520x279.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The hosts of ‘Nancy’ in California \u003ccite>(via Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the subject of working, can you speak about the challenges of balancing full-time jobs while working on the \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> pilot on separate coasts?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: At the time, I worked an overnight shift. When we were doing the pilot, I would do that shift for a radio program, then I would take the train to WNYC and record from the afternoon until normal end of business day. We’re both very driven people, and we’re both interested in working really hard in a finite amount of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Even more than that, we’re both the type of people to not let each other down. In my head, I’d be like, “I have to do this because Tobin believes in me!” But finding time and balancing your energy between a side project and a full-time job is tough. I did not go outside for weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kathy, you’re still based in L.A. even though \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> is a largely New York-based operation. Do you still record \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> in California?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: When we did our pilot, that’s how it was for the first few months. WNYC sent me equipment, and I decked out this tiny, tiny closet and made it into my own little studio. It was nice and dark. That was fun. And then I came to New York, and recorded in a real studio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, I’ve decided that I will be in New York when the show is releasing episodes. During the off-season, I go back to L.A. and get some alone time so we have stories to tell each other. Then, I come back maybe a month before the season starts gearing up again. It’s a true bi-coastal year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tobin, when was the last time you made it out to California?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: At the end of Season 1! We were literally on the same flight to L.A., and we hung out for a week. We went to Disneyland, and we hung out. It’s a funny thing being friends who co-host a podcast, because people seem genuinely surprised when we do things as friends in real life. More than once, people have been like “Oh, you’re really friends?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13808789\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13808789\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-800x600.jpg\" alt=\""Splitting an entire cheesecake with your bestie gives off those 'Golden Girls' vibes."\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-240x180.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-375x281.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-520x390.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">“Splitting an entire cheesecake with your bestie gives off those ‘Golden Girls’ vibes.” \u003ccite>(via Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>It seems like you two have got the whole “friends who host a podcast” thing figured out. How do you work on making sure that your friendship and your work relationship don’t get tangled up?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: To be totally candid, it’s a thing we’re still figuring out. We’re still in the early days of working on this, and the thing that we are figuring out now that’s working for us is learning that there’s a work version of us that draws on real-life version of us. It’s important for us to foster and communicate our relationship as real-life friends, and make sure that we know which hat we’re wearing with each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: We keep trying to plan for our great big fight. I don’t know when that’s happening, but we’ve planned for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We’re gonna put out a tell-all book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Maybe in a year or two.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The hosts of the queer WNYC podcast on their bi-coastal friendship, Disneyland and their latest project","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705029519,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":31,"wordCount":1527},"headData":{"title":"Nancy's Kathy Tu and Tobin Low on Podcasting as Friends Across Coasts | KQED","description":"The hosts of the queer WNYC podcast on their bi-coastal friendship, Disneyland and their latest project","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Nancy's Kathy Tu and Tobin Low on Podcasting as Friends Across Coasts","datePublished":"2017-09-17T15:00:41.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T03:18:39.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/13808710/nancys-kathy-tu-and-tobin-low-on-podcasting-as-friends-across-coasts","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Kathy Tu and Tobin Low, the hosts and managing editors of WNYC Studios’ stellar LGBT-centered podcast \u003ca href=\"http://nancypodcast.org\">\u003cem>Nancy,\u003c/em>\u003c/a> are really, really good friends. They went to Disneyland after finishing Season 1. They also send each other clips from their favorite queer rom-coms. (Tobin’s is ‘90s Ang Lee flick \u003cem>The Wedding Banquet\u003c/em>; Kathy’s is queer-gal rom-com \u003cem>Imagine Me and You\u003c/em>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s not to say that \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em>‘s just a back-and-forth between the two. There’s a heft to each \u003cem>Nancy \u003c/em>episode that underscores their mutual background in traditional radio journalism. Tu and Low have produced for the likes of \u003cem>Radiolab\u003c/em> and\u003cem> Marketplace, \u003c/em>and that expertise shines in their reporting — especially in their coverage of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/us/year-after-pulse-massacre-blessings-and-frustrations-abound.html?_r=0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Pulse massacre\u003c/a> and the population’s views on gender identity. But it’s also worth tuning in just to hear Tu and Low’s repartee talking about the queer subtext of\u003cem> The Golden Girls\u003c/em> and \u003cem>Harry Potter.\u003c/em> \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> often feels like a giggly brunch date with two pals who dole out killer compliments and jokes on a whim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I got to speak to Tu and Low right as\u003cem> Nancy\u003c/em> was rolling out its \u003ca href=\"https://project.wnyc.org/nancy/out-at-work/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Out at Work\u003c/a> project, a series on the endless process of coming out in the workplace. Though we covered plenty of ground, I was left wanting to spend a whole day with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What sorts of stories are you two most interested in covering on Nancy?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Moments of transition are interesting, and so is thinking about your own identity as you’re coming into it or as it changes. A lot of people think that once you figured out who you are that’s the end of it. But maybe their road’s not done yet, and I truly enjoy sharing stories about people figuring out that moment, because it’s a hard thing to do alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We also want\u003cem> Nancy\u003c/em> to be about queer joy, so we try to make sure that we’re also celebrating happiness and love and being exuberant in some way. It’s where you can go and look to people living full, vibrant lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do you ensure that \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> treads as much ground on a variety of queer and trans issues?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: When we were developing \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em>, we wanted to avoid playing the role of the experts. One way to avoid it is to have a lot of stories come through the door and let the show be a pastiche of many stories so that you feel like any one person you’re hearing can talk very personally, and that they don’t have to talk about the total queer experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a wonderful challenge because there are so many people who are waiting to have their stories told. We’re constantly checking ourselves by asking “who is still an important story that we need to get to put on the docket and push and think about?” And we need to find the right story, too. We want to avoid interviews that feel like they’re just defining a thing.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"singleTwitterStatus","attributes":{"named":{"id":"905052909108215808"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>This season, you’re starting a project titled ‘Out at Work.’ Can you tell me more about it, and where the idea came from?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We were talking about what were some big things we wanted to tackle for Season 2. The thing about work is that it touches so many people’s lives in how you try to become an adult and how you take care of yourself and how you live your life in the day-to-day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are stories here about how we are in the situation that we are with the rights that we have at the federal and state level. There’s also everyday stories where it comes up a billion times a day at work. If you’re not out, do you avoid avoid pronouns or who your partner is? \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For us, that’s a really interesting storytelling opportunity, so what we’re really interested in is our listener base. We want to have them on the show so that they can talk about the whole range of stories that they have about being out at work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: It’s a chance for us to hear from people from across the nation and not just from the coastal cities, where we think that we have all the protections that we need or want. We want to hear from the people who don’t, and how they deal with what they have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Did you have experiences where you couldn’t be fully out at work? If so, how did you cope?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: In one of my previous lives, I worked as an emergency medical technician in L.A.. At that time, I did not feel comfortable at all being out. It wasn’t a matter of whether I had rights or not, but the environment made it feel as if I couldn’t come out. I only lasted a year. After I quit, I said to myself I would never work jobs where I had to hide that part of myself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13808786\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13808786\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-800x429.jpg\" alt=\"The hosts of 'Nancy' in California\" width=\"800\" height=\"429\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-800x429.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-160x86.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-768x412.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-240x129.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-375x201.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-Podcast-hosts-520x279.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The hosts of ‘Nancy’ in California \u003ccite>(via Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>On the subject of working, can you speak about the challenges of balancing full-time jobs while working on the \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> pilot on separate coasts?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: At the time, I worked an overnight shift. When we were doing the pilot, I would do that shift for a radio program, then I would take the train to WNYC and record from the afternoon until normal end of business day. We’re both very driven people, and we’re both interested in working really hard in a finite amount of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Even more than that, we’re both the type of people to not let each other down. In my head, I’d be like, “I have to do this because Tobin believes in me!” But finding time and balancing your energy between a side project and a full-time job is tough. I did not go outside for weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kathy, you’re still based in L.A. even though \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> is a largely New York-based operation. Do you still record \u003cem>Nancy\u003c/em> in California?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: When we did our pilot, that’s how it was for the first few months. WNYC sent me equipment, and I decked out this tiny, tiny closet and made it into my own little studio. It was nice and dark. That was fun. And then I came to New York, and recorded in a real studio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, I’ve decided that I will be in New York when the show is releasing episodes. During the off-season, I go back to L.A. and get some alone time so we have stories to tell each other. Then, I come back maybe a month before the season starts gearing up again. It’s a true bi-coastal year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tobin, when was the last time you made it out to California?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: At the end of Season 1! We were literally on the same flight to L.A., and we hung out for a week. We went to Disneyland, and we hung out. It’s a funny thing being friends who co-host a podcast, because people seem genuinely surprised when we do things as friends in real life. More than once, people have been like “Oh, you’re really friends?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13808789\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13808789\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-800x600.jpg\" alt=\""Splitting an entire cheesecake with your bestie gives off those 'Golden Girls' vibes."\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-768x576.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-240x180.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-375x281.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/09/Nancy-hosts2-520x390.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">“Splitting an entire cheesecake with your bestie gives off those ‘Golden Girls’ vibes.” \u003ccite>(via Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>It seems like you two have got the whole “friends who host a podcast” thing figured out. How do you work on making sure that your friendship and your work relationship don’t get tangled up?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: To be totally candid, it’s a thing we’re still figuring out. We’re still in the early days of working on this, and the thing that we are figuring out now that’s working for us is learning that there’s a work version of us that draws on real-life version of us. It’s important for us to foster and communicate our relationship as real-life friends, and make sure that we know which hat we’re wearing with each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: We keep trying to plan for our great big fight. I don’t know when that’s happening, but we’ve planned for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tobin: We’re gonna put out a tell-all book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathy: Maybe in a year or two.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13808710/nancys-kathy-tu-and-tobin-low-on-podcasting-as-friends-across-coasts","authors":["11371"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71","arts_75"],"tags":["arts_1118"],"featImg":"arts_13808711","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_13428651":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13428651","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13428651","score":null,"sort":[1497477622000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"producer-of-ear-hustle-radiotopias-new-podcast-on-the-reality-of-prison-life","title":"Producer of 'Ear Hustle,' Radiotopia's New Podcast, On the Reality of Prison Life","publishDate":1497477622,"format":"image","headTitle":"Producer of ‘Ear Hustle,’ Radiotopia’s New Podcast, On the Reality of Prison Life | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>Prison strips away the humanity of its residents. Prisoners lose the ability to vote and work like an average citizen, and finding help for any kind of health issues — physical or mental — can be hard. The media plays its part, too, by frequently presenting prisons as “human jungles” where the cruel and devious dominate. \u003ca href=\"https://www.rienner.com/uploads/55cb93a986f33.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Desensitized by the portrayals\u003c/a> of prison in movies and TV, we tend to focus on the abnormal, like shanks and “tossing salad,” instead of realities such as high \u003ca href=\"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-zoukis/report-documents-us-recid_b_9542312.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recidivism rates\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"http://humantollofjail.vera.org/the-family-jail-cycle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">impacts of incarceration on families\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle,\u003c/a>\u003c/i> a \u003ca href=\"https://blog.prx.org/2016/11/your-podquest-winner-ear-hustle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">new podcast from Radiotopia\u003c/a>, provides the humane look at prison life we’ve been missing. Made by two inmates and a \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmoma.org/author/nigel-poor/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">noted photographer\u003c/a>, each episode addresses a side of prison life that doesn’t get much attention. The first episode, released Wednesday, is all about cellmates, and the importance of finding the right person to share a 4-foot-by-9-foot cell with. When space is that cramped, even brothers have problems being around each other, as demonstrated by the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the release of the first episode, we emailed questions to Nigel Poor, who produces the podcast with San Quentin inmates Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods. A photography professor at California State University, Sacramento, Poor broke down how the podcast came together and why she began working with prisoners. \u003ci>(Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What inspired you to start working with inmates at San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My background is as a visual artist who investigates how people make a mark and leave behind evidence of their existence. I am interested in why and how we become the people we are and how we find meaning and connection. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I came to prison work as a volunteer professor teaching a history of photography class for the Prison University Project. I always knew that photography and talking about the inner meaning of images was a powerful bridge to connect people. Talking about photography with the men in my classes at San Quentin allowed us to speak on so many important subjects, and it made me realize how many important stories there were behind the prison walls. I wanted to dive into that and find a way to collaborate with men inside. That is what started my interest and led to the podcast. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started teaching in San Quentin in 2011, and in late 2012 I began working with a group of men inside the San Quentin media lab producing radio stories about life inside prison. Originally, they were meant to just air on the prison’s closed-circuit station, but KALW heard about what we were doing and started airing the shows on their program \u003cem>Crosscurrents\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428656\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What limitations/barriers have you run into while trying to assist inmates in telling their stories?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Time, and the fact that prison is a very unpredictable place — there can be lockdowns that occur and in that case the men are confined to their housing units, so we are not able to work. Also, everything inside prison takes time and there are all sorts of protocols that need to be followed. The administration’s first objective is to keep the prison safe, so our needs and deadlines are not a priority. We need to work within a complex framework. If you cannot be patient, persistent and polite you will not make it far as an outsider trying to work within the prison system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How did you meet Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods? What made you want to work with them?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Antwan & Earlonne in 2012 when I started working on the \u003cem>San Quentin Prison Report\u003c/em>. While working on the radio project I became interested in doing different kinds of stories that weren’t so news oriented. Earlonne and I started talking about doing a podcast that would allow us to work more like artists and less like journalists. Music was deeply important, we wanted to do work that used sound design and music, almost as a character in the story. So we asked Antwan to join us as the sound designer. We felt like a podcast allows us more freedom to work creatively, experiment with more impressionistic storytelling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What do you see as the goal of the podcast? What made you want to pursue that goal?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am interested in how people find meaning and purpose. It seems to me everyone has the ability to contribute and be a productive citizen. When I first started going inside I was struck not only by the number of men inside but also by the intelligence, ingenuity and passion to learn. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428653\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"'Ear Hustle' logo\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428653\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Ear Hustle’ logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I am also an advocate for prison reform. To quote Antwan “If people don’t know exactly who it is that’s incarcerated — if they don’t know people on a personal level — it’s hard to care about the laws that dictate the lives in here.” It is my great hope that our podcast will be able to put a human face on those who are behind bars and through doing that be part of the very complicated conversation around prison reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, for me a big part of wanting to do this project is to mirror the possibility that incarcerated and non-incarcerated people can work together as equal and professional colleagues. Earlonne, Antwan and I have an excellent working relationship — we get along well, respect each other’s abilities and creative input and push each other to be better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What should listeners expect with future episodes? What should they not expect?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our stories concentrate on the everyday experience of people inside — we are looking at complex issues through the smaller details of life. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some stories we are working on:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Having pets in prison\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Celebrating special occasions\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Family visits\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Race relations\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Cooking\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The relationship between correctional officers and incarcerated men\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Ministering on death row\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>How being in prison affects memory\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>We hope that our audience is varied and includes incarcerated people and their families, the formerly incarcerated, people interested in criminal justice issues, and those interested in stories about the complexity of being human. We are not a “true crime story” podcast, but we hope that people who are interested in that genre will tune in. We can offer a more nuanced view of those in the criminal justice system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428652\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Copy of the 'Ear Hustle' business card\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428652\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-240x135.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-375x211.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-520x292.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card.jpg 920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Copy of the ‘Ear Hustle’ business card. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What have you learned from spending time in San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have spent the last 25 plus years working as a visual artist, trying to explore ideas through solo work in my studio. Coming together with the men inside San Quentin has been a powerful lesson in the importance of collaboration, negotiation and flexibility. As I said earlier, you cannot count on anything inside prison except the fact that most everything is out of one’s control; you always have to be ready to pivot. That leads to very creative problem-solving which feeds positively into everything one does in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a deeper more human level, I have had the pleasure of getting to know a group of people who some years ago were only caricatures formed in my mind through bad films, TV and shoddy news coverage. I have had many assumptions challenged and have had to re-examine tough issues that I might have breezed by before. I believe it is important for us to live in a place of not knowing, to understand that it isn’t always good to hold on to beliefs too tightly. To grow and to contribute means to understand that no matter how old we are, we should always be in a place of learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A new podcast produced in part by two inmates in San Quentin provides a more nuanced, realistic look at prison life.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705030348,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":25,"wordCount":1325},"headData":{"title":"Producer of 'Ear Hustle,' Radiotopia's New Podcast, On the Reality of Prison Life | KQED","description":"A new podcast produced in part by two inmates in San Quentin provides a more nuanced, realistic look at prison life.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Producer of 'Ear Hustle,' Radiotopia's New Podcast, On the Reality of Prison Life","datePublished":"2017-06-14T22:00:22.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T03:32:28.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/13428651/producer-of-ear-hustle-radiotopias-new-podcast-on-the-reality-of-prison-life","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Prison strips away the humanity of its residents. Prisoners lose the ability to vote and work like an average citizen, and finding help for any kind of health issues — physical or mental — can be hard. The media plays its part, too, by frequently presenting prisons as “human jungles” where the cruel and devious dominate. \u003ca href=\"https://www.rienner.com/uploads/55cb93a986f33.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Desensitized by the portrayals\u003c/a> of prison in movies and TV, we tend to focus on the abnormal, like shanks and “tossing salad,” instead of realities such as high \u003ca href=\"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-zoukis/report-documents-us-recid_b_9542312.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recidivism rates\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"http://humantollofjail.vera.org/the-family-jail-cycle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">impacts of incarceration on families\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle,\u003c/a>\u003c/i> a \u003ca href=\"https://blog.prx.org/2016/11/your-podquest-winner-ear-hustle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">new podcast from Radiotopia\u003c/a>, provides the humane look at prison life we’ve been missing. Made by two inmates and a \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmoma.org/author/nigel-poor/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">noted photographer\u003c/a>, each episode addresses a side of prison life that doesn’t get much attention. The first episode, released Wednesday, is all about cellmates, and the importance of finding the right person to share a 4-foot-by-9-foot cell with. When space is that cramped, even brothers have problems being around each other, as demonstrated by the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the release of the first episode, we emailed questions to Nigel Poor, who produces the podcast with San Quentin inmates Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods. A photography professor at California State University, Sacramento, Poor broke down how the podcast came together and why she began working with prisoners. \u003ci>(Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What inspired you to start working with inmates at San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My background is as a visual artist who investigates how people make a mark and leave behind evidence of their existence. I am interested in why and how we become the people we are and how we find meaning and connection. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I came to prison work as a volunteer professor teaching a history of photography class for the Prison University Project. I always knew that photography and talking about the inner meaning of images was a powerful bridge to connect people. Talking about photography with the men in my classes at San Quentin allowed us to speak on so many important subjects, and it made me realize how many important stories there were behind the prison walls. I wanted to dive into that and find a way to collaborate with men inside. That is what started my interest and led to the podcast. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started teaching in San Quentin in 2011, and in late 2012 I began working with a group of men inside the San Quentin media lab producing radio stories about life inside prison. Originally, they were meant to just air on the prison’s closed-circuit station, but KALW heard about what we were doing and started airing the shows on their program \u003cem>Crosscurrents\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428656\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What limitations/barriers have you run into while trying to assist inmates in telling their stories?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Time, and the fact that prison is a very unpredictable place — there can be lockdowns that occur and in that case the men are confined to their housing units, so we are not able to work. Also, everything inside prison takes time and there are all sorts of protocols that need to be followed. The administration’s first objective is to keep the prison safe, so our needs and deadlines are not a priority. We need to work within a complex framework. If you cannot be patient, persistent and polite you will not make it far as an outsider trying to work within the prison system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How did you meet Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods? What made you want to work with them?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Antwan & Earlonne in 2012 when I started working on the \u003cem>San Quentin Prison Report\u003c/em>. While working on the radio project I became interested in doing different kinds of stories that weren’t so news oriented. Earlonne and I started talking about doing a podcast that would allow us to work more like artists and less like journalists. Music was deeply important, we wanted to do work that used sound design and music, almost as a character in the story. So we asked Antwan to join us as the sound designer. We felt like a podcast allows us more freedom to work creatively, experiment with more impressionistic storytelling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What do you see as the goal of the podcast? What made you want to pursue that goal?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am interested in how people find meaning and purpose. It seems to me everyone has the ability to contribute and be a productive citizen. When I first started going inside I was struck not only by the number of men inside but also by the intelligence, ingenuity and passion to learn. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428653\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"'Ear Hustle' logo\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428653\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Ear Hustle’ logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I am also an advocate for prison reform. To quote Antwan “If people don’t know exactly who it is that’s incarcerated — if they don’t know people on a personal level — it’s hard to care about the laws that dictate the lives in here.” It is my great hope that our podcast will be able to put a human face on those who are behind bars and through doing that be part of the very complicated conversation around prison reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, for me a big part of wanting to do this project is to mirror the possibility that incarcerated and non-incarcerated people can work together as equal and professional colleagues. Earlonne, Antwan and I have an excellent working relationship — we get along well, respect each other’s abilities and creative input and push each other to be better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What should listeners expect with future episodes? What should they not expect?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our stories concentrate on the everyday experience of people inside — we are looking at complex issues through the smaller details of life. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some stories we are working on:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Having pets in prison\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Celebrating special occasions\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Family visits\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Race relations\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Cooking\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The relationship between correctional officers and incarcerated men\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Ministering on death row\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>How being in prison affects memory\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>We hope that our audience is varied and includes incarcerated people and their families, the formerly incarcerated, people interested in criminal justice issues, and those interested in stories about the complexity of being human. We are not a “true crime story” podcast, but we hope that people who are interested in that genre will tune in. We can offer a more nuanced view of those in the criminal justice system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428652\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Copy of the 'Ear Hustle' business card\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428652\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-240x135.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-375x211.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-520x292.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card.jpg 920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Copy of the ‘Ear Hustle’ business card. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What have you learned from spending time in San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have spent the last 25 plus years working as a visual artist, trying to explore ideas through solo work in my studio. Coming together with the men inside San Quentin has been a powerful lesson in the importance of collaboration, negotiation and flexibility. As I said earlier, you cannot count on anything inside prison except the fact that most everything is out of one’s control; you always have to be ready to pivot. That leads to very creative problem-solving which feeds positively into everything one does in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a deeper more human level, I have had the pleasure of getting to know a group of people who some years ago were only caricatures formed in my mind through bad films, TV and shoddy news coverage. I have had many assumptions challenged and have had to re-examine tough issues that I might have breezed by before. I believe it is important for us to live in a place of not knowing, to understand that it isn’t always good to hold on to beliefs too tightly. To grow and to contribute means to understand that no matter how old we are, we should always be in a place of learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13428651/producer-of-ear-hustle-radiotopias-new-podcast-on-the-reality-of-prison-life","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1893","arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989","arts_12987"],"featImg":"arts_13428650","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_13194949":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13194949","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13194949","score":null,"sort":[1494540014000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-allusionists-helen-zaltzman-on-the-pioneer-days-of-podcasting","title":"The Allusionist's Helen Zaltzman on the Pioneer Days of Podcasting","publishDate":1494540014,"format":"image","headTitle":"The Allusionist’s Helen Zaltzman on the Pioneer Days of Podcasting | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>British podcast pioneer Helen Zaltzman is so modest and self-deprecating that she’d probably laugh at being called a “podcast pioneer.” But it’s true: since 2007 — two years after iTunes made podcasts available on its desktop software — Zaltzman has produced a popular comedy show, \u003ci>Answer Me This!,\u003c/i> with her friend Olly Mann. The show does so well in England it’s spun off into five comedy albums and its own book, which is pretty impressive when you consider that Zaltzman didn’t know what a podcast was when she started. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”8pL1RZG8QcSbP1Tm0A0EyIykj7EhfZSk”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here in America, Zaltzman is known more for her show on Radiotopia, \u003ci>The Allusionist.\u003c/i> The podcast follows Zaltzman, a fanatic of the English language, as she dives into linguistic topics like small talk and puns, searching for more than what’s in their dictionary definitions. Her reporting is saturated with the light-hearted wit that she’s known for in Britain, so it’s no wonder that it was voted UK iTunes’ Best New Podcast when it began in 2015.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, \u003ca href=\"https://www.radiotopia.fm/live/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Radiotopia is touring the west coast\u003c/a>, taping live versions of the podcast network’s biggest shows — \u003ci>99% Invisible, Criminal, Memory Palace, \u003c/i>and, of course, \u003ci>The Allusionist.\u003c/i> Zaltzman made time to speak to Earful via phone last week, and between her dozens of jokes were nuggets of podcasting wisdom that could only come from someone with over a decade in the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Note: Interview edited for length and clarity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZeAYSJLvUo\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> You did radio while in university. Was that your first experience doing audio?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yeah, I did a tiny bit, but not very much because they only opened the student radio station in my last year. Afterwards, I really wanted to work in radio ‘cause I grew up really loving it, but I could never really get anywhere. I did a tiny bit of joke-writing for some comedy shows and that was it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When I started podcasting with \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> in January of 2007, we were doing it in order to get into radio. We thought [the podcast] would function as a demo and by episode ten, someone would give us a show. We were so naive. Back then podcasting was barely a thing. I hadn’t listened to any when I started [laughs]. I didn’t know any other podcasters and there was no real track set for how you should do it — there wasn’t for several years. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It seemed like the podcast was a means to get other jobs. We got TV work off the back of it and we wrote a book. But I think I just wanted the job I have now, which is doing what I want. [Laughs] \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It’s amazing to think that \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> started so early.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And we still felt like we were late to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How was it being a podcaster back then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was very interesting. I made \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> with my friend Olly Mann, who I had met in college. We had done this little bit of student radio together and around 2006, Olly was promoting a play he had written at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, and a lot of the people interviewing him were guys with recorders, making podcasts. He thought, “God, I could be a guy with a recorder making a podcast!” And because we had done this stuff before, he asked me if I wanted to make a podcast. I didn’t really know what they were but I didn’t have a reason not to, so I said yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13195121\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Logo for 'The Allusionist'\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13195121\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-150x150.jpg 150w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist.jpg 1080w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Logo for ‘The Allusionist’\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the time I was doing freelance book editing, so I had that sensibility when you take material and you try to make it a better version of itself. Olly’s sensibility is thinking how to make something popular and then how to make it good. He was good at marketing and creating opportunities, and getting in touch with people and asking them to promote it. We were very proactive that first year about growing our audience. Obviously back then, and for many years afterward, we had to not only explain to people what the show was, but what a podcast was. [Laughs] You were marketing a whole concept. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now people complain that there are too many podcasts and I want to tell them, “You’re really lucky! Try doing it in 2007.” [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How was it making a podcast when there wasn’t a model to follow?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m actually really glad that at the time there was no path. No one had really done much, so we could just invent it. I think we had \u003ci>Podcasting For Dummies,\u003c/i> which was awful and did not help at all. We had no other instructions and I learned audio editing by making it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m just so glad that there weren’t all these courses and things that now people think we have to do. Firstly, that’s throwing up a financial barrier to a lot of people who I think could make some really interesting shows, who have viewpoints that we don’t hear in other forms of media. But they read stuff that says, “You need $400 for this mic, and a $1,000 for this thing, and six months to develop a pilot.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was so fortunate that we just had to dive in and get it done. Once we had one program, we had to make another one, and another one, and another. We decided that we’d put one out every week on Thursdays because we thought that’s when people would be plugging in their iPods and updating their podcasts. We also thought that regularity would also be important to building an audience and getting them into the habit of listening to us. But it was more important for us to get in the habit of making the show. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When you’re making that kind of show, most people get better. Listening back to yourself in the edit — you can get so disillusioned by your own sh*tness [laughs] that you’ll never make more episodes. You can’t just wait until something goes right because that day never comes. You have to push through the pain barrier and make another one, and another one, and then you learn a lot quicker on how to be better at it. The lessons come so much faster than if you wait for some kind of divine inspiration. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[soundcloud url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/321238882″ params=”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false” width=”100%” height=”166″ iframe=”true” /]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Finally, is Radiotopia’s Roman Mars a dictator or what?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[Laughs] No, Roman Mars is very hands off. I think he was like, “Wow, I’ve made all this money but I’m not going to keep it because I’m an altruistic idiot. I’m going to make it possible for other producers to do stuff.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My show (\u003ci>The Allusionist\u003c/i>) didn’t exist before Radiotopia. He was like, “Right, here’s some money, now go do your best work.” I didn’t even know what that was! [Laughs] But it’s extraordinary to be given that amount of freedom, even though doing that with your money doesn’t sound like a sound practice at all. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Radiotopia Live comes to the Nourse Theater in San Francisco on May 11. Tickets are sold out, but for more information, \u003ca href=\"https://www.radiotopia.fm/live/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">visit the website\u003c/a>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Helen Zaltzman started making her first podcast before she knew what one was. A decade later, she says that leap brought her to a job where she gets to do exactly what she wants.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705030675,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":28,"wordCount":1330},"headData":{"title":"The Allusionist's Helen Zaltzman on the Pioneer Days of Podcasting | KQED","description":"Helen Zaltzman started making her first podcast before she knew what one was. A decade later, she says that leap brought her to a job where she gets to do exactly what she wants.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"The Allusionist's Helen Zaltzman on the Pioneer Days of Podcasting","datePublished":"2017-05-11T22:00:14.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T03:37:55.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/13194949/the-allusionists-helen-zaltzman-on-the-pioneer-days-of-podcasting","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>British podcast pioneer Helen Zaltzman is so modest and self-deprecating that she’d probably laugh at being called a “podcast pioneer.” But it’s true: since 2007 — two years after iTunes made podcasts available on its desktop software — Zaltzman has produced a popular comedy show, \u003ci>Answer Me This!,\u003c/i> with her friend Olly Mann. The show does so well in England it’s spun off into five comedy albums and its own book, which is pretty impressive when you consider that Zaltzman didn’t know what a podcast was when she started. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here in America, Zaltzman is known more for her show on Radiotopia, \u003ci>The Allusionist.\u003c/i> The podcast follows Zaltzman, a fanatic of the English language, as she dives into linguistic topics like small talk and puns, searching for more than what’s in their dictionary definitions. Her reporting is saturated with the light-hearted wit that she’s known for in Britain, so it’s no wonder that it was voted UK iTunes’ Best New Podcast when it began in 2015.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, \u003ca href=\"https://www.radiotopia.fm/live/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Radiotopia is touring the west coast\u003c/a>, taping live versions of the podcast network’s biggest shows — \u003ci>99% Invisible, Criminal, Memory Palace, \u003c/i>and, of course, \u003ci>The Allusionist.\u003c/i> Zaltzman made time to speak to Earful via phone last week, and between her dozens of jokes were nuggets of podcasting wisdom that could only come from someone with over a decade in the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Note: Interview edited for length and clarity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/9ZeAYSJLvUo'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/9ZeAYSJLvUo'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb> You did radio while in university. Was that your first experience doing audio?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yeah, I did a tiny bit, but not very much because they only opened the student radio station in my last year. Afterwards, I really wanted to work in radio ‘cause I grew up really loving it, but I could never really get anywhere. I did a tiny bit of joke-writing for some comedy shows and that was it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When I started podcasting with \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> in January of 2007, we were doing it in order to get into radio. We thought [the podcast] would function as a demo and by episode ten, someone would give us a show. We were so naive. Back then podcasting was barely a thing. I hadn’t listened to any when I started [laughs]. I didn’t know any other podcasters and there was no real track set for how you should do it — there wasn’t for several years. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It seemed like the podcast was a means to get other jobs. We got TV work off the back of it and we wrote a book. But I think I just wanted the job I have now, which is doing what I want. [Laughs] \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It’s amazing to think that \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> started so early.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And we still felt like we were late to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How was it being a podcaster back then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was very interesting. I made \u003ci>Answer Me This!\u003c/i> with my friend Olly Mann, who I had met in college. We had done this little bit of student radio together and around 2006, Olly was promoting a play he had written at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, and a lot of the people interviewing him were guys with recorders, making podcasts. He thought, “God, I could be a guy with a recorder making a podcast!” And because we had done this stuff before, he asked me if I wanted to make a podcast. I didn’t really know what they were but I didn’t have a reason not to, so I said yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13195121\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Logo for 'The Allusionist'\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13195121\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist-150x150.jpg 150w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/showcard_allusionist.jpg 1080w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Logo for ‘The Allusionist’\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the time I was doing freelance book editing, so I had that sensibility when you take material and you try to make it a better version of itself. Olly’s sensibility is thinking how to make something popular and then how to make it good. He was good at marketing and creating opportunities, and getting in touch with people and asking them to promote it. We were very proactive that first year about growing our audience. Obviously back then, and for many years afterward, we had to not only explain to people what the show was, but what a podcast was. [Laughs] You were marketing a whole concept. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now people complain that there are too many podcasts and I want to tell them, “You’re really lucky! Try doing it in 2007.” [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How was it making a podcast when there wasn’t a model to follow?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m actually really glad that at the time there was no path. No one had really done much, so we could just invent it. I think we had \u003ci>Podcasting For Dummies,\u003c/i> which was awful and did not help at all. We had no other instructions and I learned audio editing by making it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m just so glad that there weren’t all these courses and things that now people think we have to do. Firstly, that’s throwing up a financial barrier to a lot of people who I think could make some really interesting shows, who have viewpoints that we don’t hear in other forms of media. But they read stuff that says, “You need $400 for this mic, and a $1,000 for this thing, and six months to develop a pilot.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was so fortunate that we just had to dive in and get it done. Once we had one program, we had to make another one, and another one, and another. We decided that we’d put one out every week on Thursdays because we thought that’s when people would be plugging in their iPods and updating their podcasts. We also thought that regularity would also be important to building an audience and getting them into the habit of listening to us. But it was more important for us to get in the habit of making the show. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When you’re making that kind of show, most people get better. Listening back to yourself in the edit — you can get so disillusioned by your own sh*tness [laughs] that you’ll never make more episodes. You can’t just wait until something goes right because that day never comes. You have to push through the pain barrier and make another one, and another one, and then you learn a lot quicker on how to be better at it. The lessons come so much faster than if you wait for some kind of divine inspiration. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cdiv class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__shortcodes__shortcodeWrapper'>\n \u003ciframe width='”100%”' height='”166″'\n scrolling='no' frameborder='no'\n src='https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/321238882″&visual=true&”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false”'\n title='”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/321238882″'>\n \u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/div>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Finally, is Radiotopia’s Roman Mars a dictator or what?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[Laughs] No, Roman Mars is very hands off. I think he was like, “Wow, I’ve made all this money but I’m not going to keep it because I’m an altruistic idiot. I’m going to make it possible for other producers to do stuff.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My show (\u003ci>The Allusionist\u003c/i>) didn’t exist before Radiotopia. He was like, “Right, here’s some money, now go do your best work.” I didn’t even know what that was! [Laughs] But it’s extraordinary to be given that amount of freedom, even though doing that with your money doesn’t sound like a sound practice at all. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Radiotopia Live comes to the Nourse Theater in San Francisco on May 11. Tickets are sold out, but for more information, \u003ca href=\"https://www.radiotopia.fm/live/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">visit the website\u003c/a>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13194949/the-allusionists-helen-zaltzman-on-the-pioneer-days-of-podcasting","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_13207855","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_12697057":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_12697057","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"12697057","score":null,"sort":[1485792053000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"you-must-remember-this-returns-with-new-season-focusing-on-death","title":"‘You Must Remember This' Returns with New Season Focusing on Death","publishDate":1485792053,"format":"image","headTitle":"‘You Must Remember This’ Returns with New Season Focusing on Death | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>Today is a good day for fans of the \u003cem>You Must Remember This\u003c/em> podcast. After a four-month hiatus that allowed producer Karina Longworth to write her next book, the award-winning podcast returns this Monday with the first of series of episodes she’s calling “Dead Blondes.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you haven’t listened to the show, it’s a good time to start — as Auntie Mame said, “Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!” And while it’s a podcast full of great stories from the golden age of Hollywood, it also contains lessons that can be applied today — such as Longworth’s riveting series on the impact of Hollywood’s blacklist, and an episode about actress Frances Farmer, a tale of purposely deceiving the media, which almost seems prescient in today’s world of “alternative facts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”9MSwnhb14cxIDGq95zmKzhZRtqXEz4iE”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We spoke over the phone last week about Hollywood’s mastery of media manipulation, as well as what listeners can expect from the new season. (Note: Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s the new season about and where did the idea come from?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The topic of the season is “Dead Blondes,” and it came from a few different places. Part of it is that I did a Twitter poll a few months ago where I asked my listeners, “What are you interested in for the new season? Here are four options: Sex, Murder Politics or other.” Murder won by a landslide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started thinking about how I could talk about these Hollywood tragedies in a way that wasn’t so morbid, and wasn’t necessarily like the way I did the Charlie Manson season, which were catalyzed by a single murder. To be honest, as much as Hollywood has this reputation of being Babylon, this place where Noir comes to life, there’s not that many stories of really famous people being involved in horrible crimes. So I thought it would be interesting to turn the fascination that people have with dead stars and also this idea of the “perfect victim” — the beautiful blonde woman who was taken too soon, like her own demerit let her potential slide away. I wanted to see if I could take that concept and turn it around, humanizing these idealized victims. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061951\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-800x462.jpg\" alt=\"Karina Longworth\" width=\"800\" height=\"462\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12061951\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-800x462.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-400x231.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-768x443.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-1180x681.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-960x554.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989.jpg 1500w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karina Longworth. \u003ccite>(Photo: Courtesy of Karina Longworth)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Will this be a mini-season like the Joan Crawford series?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a full-fledged season. It’s going to run until the end of April and I’m going to talk about 10 different women, but there’s going to be more than one episode about a couple of them. And there are a few topics where I am going to re-frame a past episode we did. There’s one actress, Barbara Payton, who was the subject of half an episode in the Joan Crawford series. I’m going to take that half episode and turn it into a full episode. There’s a couple things like that. I’ve done episodes on Marilyn Monroe in the past and we’re going to do more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>That episode about Marilyn Monroe is shocking. I could not believe what she went through and how she underwent something much more intense than the male gaze.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That episode I did about her early life, I mean a lot of that stuff was news to me too. It was like a 1930s and ’40s-Californian version of a Dickensian childhood. She self-consciously used her sexuality because she was emulating Jean Harlow, so there you have this trajectory of two dead blondes… [Laughs] It sounds so vulgar whenever I say dead blondes, but there really is a pattern. Some of them were molded in the bombshell style and some of them weren’t, but Hollywood provides plenty of examples of the perfect victim. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL5363343023\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve touched on more modern topics in past episodes, such as Madonna and Brandon Lee. Will you be going more recent with a subject in this upcoming season?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look at all the episodes I’ve done about events that happened in the ’80s and ’90s, they’ve all had a relationship to the past. Those Madonna episodes are basically about her use of classical Hollywood imagery in her work and her embrace of these ideas of what it was like to be an old Hollywood star, and her relationship with Warren Beatty. [Laughs] And the Brandon Lee one is about his relationship to his father, Bruce Lee, and the Lee family mythos. That’s also an episode that starts in the ’50s and ’60s. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That is the way I feel most comfortable when talking about more modern things. The latest that this upcoming batch of episodes is going to go is with somebody whose career began in the late ’70s and she dies in the early ’80s. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To be perfectly honest, I have some issues with conflict of interest. I can’t really talk about people I know in real life, and it gets tough when you get into people that worked in the ’80s and ’90s because I need to sidestep various things involved with my real life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>That’s the humblest humble brag I’ve ever heard. But I appreciate how concerned you are with the ethical implications of your reporting. Recently I listened to the episode about Frances Farmer and I was shocked to learn how willing her biographers were to make up her life story. Though in today’s world of “alternative facts,” it seems prescient.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With alternative facts and what we’re seeing with the president right now, it’s very reminiscent of what I study, in terms of Hollywood. Hollywood has never had an incentive to tell the truth about anything. When you’re reading so-called “news” from either history or today, you have to be reading it with a critical eye. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL6575271770\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How long has Hollywood used the media to deceive people?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the beginning of there being a movie press. I’m not joking. It was there as soon as there starts to be people in a role of publicist, or even before that. The original movie stars did not use their real names; they were labeled like “the girl with the curls,” which is how Mary Pickford was first billed. They had personas that were crafted for them. The idea of knowing anything at all real about a movie star came later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>No wonder people don’t trust the media.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It should be different for politicians and the press. It was actually a shock for me when I went to go work at a newspaper a few years ago because I was so used to publicists withholding access to people who made movies. I was having to read between the lines of press releases, and figure out what I could ask the director or movie star to get them to say the thing they weren’t supposed to say. It’s just a completely different game. Then people at the newspaper who were covering local politicians or people who had stories that they actually wanted to have told — they expected those people to give full access and tell the truth. That wasn’t my experience! [laughs]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"After a four-month hiatus, 'You Must Remember This' comes back with a new season focusing on \"the perfect victim.\"","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705031736,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":25,"wordCount":1286},"headData":{"title":"‘You Must Remember This' Returns with New Season Focusing on Death | KQED","description":"After a four-month hiatus, 'You Must Remember This' comes back with a new season focusing on "the perfect victim."","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"‘You Must Remember This' Returns with New Season Focusing on Death","datePublished":"2017-01-30T16:00:53.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T03:55:36.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/12697057/you-must-remember-this-returns-with-new-season-focusing-on-death","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Today is a good day for fans of the \u003cem>You Must Remember This\u003c/em> podcast. After a four-month hiatus that allowed producer Karina Longworth to write her next book, the award-winning podcast returns this Monday with the first of series of episodes she’s calling “Dead Blondes.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you haven’t listened to the show, it’s a good time to start — as Auntie Mame said, “Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!” And while it’s a podcast full of great stories from the golden age of Hollywood, it also contains lessons that can be applied today — such as Longworth’s riveting series on the impact of Hollywood’s blacklist, and an episode about actress Frances Farmer, a tale of purposely deceiving the media, which almost seems prescient in today’s world of “alternative facts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We spoke over the phone last week about Hollywood’s mastery of media manipulation, as well as what listeners can expect from the new season. (Note: Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s the new season about and where did the idea come from?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The topic of the season is “Dead Blondes,” and it came from a few different places. Part of it is that I did a Twitter poll a few months ago where I asked my listeners, “What are you interested in for the new season? Here are four options: Sex, Murder Politics or other.” Murder won by a landslide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started thinking about how I could talk about these Hollywood tragedies in a way that wasn’t so morbid, and wasn’t necessarily like the way I did the Charlie Manson season, which were catalyzed by a single murder. To be honest, as much as Hollywood has this reputation of being Babylon, this place where Noir comes to life, there’s not that many stories of really famous people being involved in horrible crimes. So I thought it would be interesting to turn the fascination that people have with dead stars and also this idea of the “perfect victim” — the beautiful blonde woman who was taken too soon, like her own demerit let her potential slide away. I wanted to see if I could take that concept and turn it around, humanizing these idealized victims. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061951\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-800x462.jpg\" alt=\"Karina Longworth\" width=\"800\" height=\"462\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12061951\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-800x462.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-400x231.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-768x443.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-1180x681.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989-960x554.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/KarinaLongworthHighRes-e1473753187989.jpg 1500w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Karina Longworth. \u003ccite>(Photo: Courtesy of Karina Longworth)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Will this be a mini-season like the Joan Crawford series?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a full-fledged season. It’s going to run until the end of April and I’m going to talk about 10 different women, but there’s going to be more than one episode about a couple of them. And there are a few topics where I am going to re-frame a past episode we did. There’s one actress, Barbara Payton, who was the subject of half an episode in the Joan Crawford series. I’m going to take that half episode and turn it into a full episode. There’s a couple things like that. I’ve done episodes on Marilyn Monroe in the past and we’re going to do more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>That episode about Marilyn Monroe is shocking. I could not believe what she went through and how she underwent something much more intense than the male gaze.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That episode I did about her early life, I mean a lot of that stuff was news to me too. It was like a 1930s and ’40s-Californian version of a Dickensian childhood. She self-consciously used her sexuality because she was emulating Jean Harlow, so there you have this trajectory of two dead blondes… [Laughs] It sounds so vulgar whenever I say dead blondes, but there really is a pattern. Some of them were molded in the bombshell style and some of them weren’t, but Hollywood provides plenty of examples of the perfect victim. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL5363343023\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve touched on more modern topics in past episodes, such as Madonna and Brandon Lee. Will you be going more recent with a subject in this upcoming season?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look at all the episodes I’ve done about events that happened in the ’80s and ’90s, they’ve all had a relationship to the past. Those Madonna episodes are basically about her use of classical Hollywood imagery in her work and her embrace of these ideas of what it was like to be an old Hollywood star, and her relationship with Warren Beatty. [Laughs] And the Brandon Lee one is about his relationship to his father, Bruce Lee, and the Lee family mythos. That’s also an episode that starts in the ’50s and ’60s. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That is the way I feel most comfortable when talking about more modern things. The latest that this upcoming batch of episodes is going to go is with somebody whose career began in the late ’70s and she dies in the early ’80s. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To be perfectly honest, I have some issues with conflict of interest. I can’t really talk about people I know in real life, and it gets tough when you get into people that worked in the ’80s and ’90s because I need to sidestep various things involved with my real life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>That’s the humblest humble brag I’ve ever heard. But I appreciate how concerned you are with the ethical implications of your reporting. Recently I listened to the episode about Frances Farmer and I was shocked to learn how willing her biographers were to make up her life story. Though in today’s world of “alternative facts,” it seems prescient.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With alternative facts and what we’re seeing with the president right now, it’s very reminiscent of what I study, in terms of Hollywood. Hollywood has never had an incentive to tell the truth about anything. When you’re reading so-called “news” from either history or today, you have to be reading it with a critical eye. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL6575271770\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How long has Hollywood used the media to deceive people?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the beginning of there being a movie press. I’m not joking. It was there as soon as there starts to be people in a role of publicist, or even before that. The original movie stars did not use their real names; they were labeled like “the girl with the curls,” which is how Mary Pickford was first billed. They had personas that were crafted for them. The idea of knowing anything at all real about a movie star came later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>No wonder people don’t trust the media.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It should be different for politicians and the press. It was actually a shock for me when I went to go work at a newspaper a few years ago because I was so used to publicists withholding access to people who made movies. I was having to read between the lines of press releases, and figure out what I could ask the director or movie star to get them to say the thing they weren’t supposed to say. It’s just a completely different game. Then people at the newspaper who were covering local politicians or people who had stories that they actually wanted to have told — they expected those people to give full access and tell the truth. That wasn’t my experience! [laughs]\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/12697057/you-must-remember-this-returns-with-new-season-focusing-on-death","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_12697629","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_12622799":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_12622799","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"12622799","score":null,"sort":[1484409600000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"expanding-your-consciousness-with-shane-mausss-podcast-here-we-are","title":"Expanding Your Consciousness with Shane Mauss’s Podcast ‘Here We Are’","publishDate":1484409600,"format":"image","headTitle":"Expanding Your Consciousness with Shane Mauss’s Podcast ‘Here We Are’ | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>When you hear the word “enlightened,” it’s doubtful comedian \u003ca href=\"http://www.shanemauss.com/#goodtriptour\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shane Mauss\u003c/a> comes to mind. Not to say that he’s stupid or depends too much on riffs about flatulence and, uh, \u003cem>other matters\u003c/em> of the posterior (though he does have those jokes). It’s just that a lot of his comedy seems to come from making bad decisions. For example, his 2015 album, \u003ci>My Big Break,\u003c/i> is all about how he jumped off a cliff and broke both of his ankles at the same time. Sure, his telling of the incident is hilarious, but he also admits that \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbPwXCWc0B0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">he knew he was going to hurt himself\u003c/a> before he leaped. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Mauss’s standup is much different than his podcast \u003ci>Here We Are,\u003c/i> which is focused on science, the benefits of psychedelics and the need for society to increase its “openness.” Each episode features Mauss interviewing scientists and experts, usually on heady topics such as using psychotherapy to treat PTSD and the perception of time. (There’s also an episode about sperm competition.) It’s a show with the goal of expanding his listeners’ consciousness, hosted by a comedian with a bit about \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mB86bRvdM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">man caves\u003c/a>. And though it comes out semi-regularly, he now averages 50,000 downloads an episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of all Mauss’s interests covered on the podcast, he spends the most time discussing psychedelics. An avid user who trips at least four times a year, usually more, the 36-year-old comedian now has an entire show called “A Good Trip” about his adventures on all kinds of mind-expanding drugs. Over the past few months, he’s sold out many of his nearly 100 dates — when I talked to him as he drove down the coast to Santa Cruz, he had sold out seven shows in a row. So we talked a lot about tripping, both the good and the bad, and a bit about his podcasting experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Interview edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>After listening to your podcast, I have to say that you are one enlightened individual.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12623204\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-800x1237.jpg\" alt='Flyer for \"A Good Trip\"' width=\"800\" height=\"1237\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12623204\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-800x1237.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-160x247.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-768x1187.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-1020x1577.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-1180x1824.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-960x1484.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-240x371.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-375x580.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-520x804.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image.jpg 1325w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Flyer for “A Good Trip.”\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Well thank you, but I have a long ways to go. What I tell myself all the time is that when I don’t feel like reading, I should just keep on reading because five years from now I’ll be smarter. A lot of people that are closed off — that are low on openness — view the future as scary because it’s unknown, and there’s nothing scarier than the unknown. They cling to the past and “whatever that I already knew is all that I need to know,” and that causes a lot of problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>When you say “openness,” what do you mean?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s five personality traits that psychologists often study, and openness is one of them. We talk about it a fair amount on the podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Openness really relates to political views. Most people are in the middle, but if you’re really high in openness, not only are you not scared of novelty and ambiguity, but you really thrive off of it. You like adventure and new experiences, and you’re probably inquisitive and creative. The downside is that you probably take a few too many chances in life. Sometimes people that are high in openness have no respect for authority — I fall into this category — and that can cause you some trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re low on openness, you’re the type of person that is much more into tradition and routine, and the past is very important to you. New experiences and outsiders can be scary. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s one of the most flexible traits that we have, and it’s less about genes than any other trait. It’s really just about getting out and searching for new experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Did psychedelics have anything to do with increasing your openness?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think so. My first psychedelic experience was when I took mushrooms when I was 15 years old. Psychedelics aren’t for everybody, but for a lot of people they work well, and for me, they just clicked with my brain. It was perfect. I was just searching and searching for any kind of escape from this little bubble I found myself in, and any ways of thinking differently about life. I didn’t like the way I saw the majority of the people around me in the small town in Wisconsin where I grew up. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As soon as I took psychedelics, it opened up everything, and that’s what psychedelics have been proven to do quite reliably: it literally opens you up. It makes you see different possibilities, which is a testable effect. But you don’t need drugs for that either. You can read different books that you’d never consider reading, you can travel more and have new experiences, maybe take on new hobbies. Maybe change your occupation, or start your own small business that you’ve always dreamed about. New experiences are beneficial, and psychedelics provide new experiences, but like, on steroids. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2FY1W9oiA\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>But that can sometimes be too much, too quickly. I know at least one person that took acid and hasn’t been the same since.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ugh, I hear that so much about LSD. Once you get up around ten hits in a single dose… I’ve heard plenty of stories about people having \u003cem>waaaayyy\u003c/em> too much one evening who never were the same after that. I don’t think they were any different chemically, it’s just that the experience itself can be traumatizing. If it’s too intense, you kind of develop a PTSD from it. Counterintuitively, psychedelic treatments have been known to correct some PTSD cases, and even schizophrenia. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this is why I focus my show on the clinical use of psychedelic drugs, like MDMA. We’re sponsored by the \u003ca href=\"http://www.maps.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies\u003c/a> (MAPS), and they’re close to getting it legalized. MDMA could be the first psychedelic to be legal, but for clinical use only. I think that once psychedelics are able to be given in a safe, clinical environment, then that’s when I would start telling more people to give it a shot. Until that time, I’m not a big advocate of using psychedelics for recreational use, and I certainly don’t support using them as a party drug. I don’t think that’s what they’re all about. They’re therapeutic, meditative aids, and though there can be something special about doing psychedelics at a music festival, that’s also where most of the trouble happens. People go overboard with it and don’t know what they’re doing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>But I did appreciate what Rick Dobin, the founder of MAPS, said about \u003ca href=\"http://www.herewearepodcast.com/episode/103/rick-doblin\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">one of your episodes\u003c/a> about how taking psychedelics at a musical event can be a religious experience for some. \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12624744\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 596px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1.png\" alt=\"Mauss performing in 2013\" width=\"596\" height=\"474\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12624744\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1.png 596w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-160x127.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-240x191.png 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-375x298.png 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-520x414.png 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 596px) 100vw, 596px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mauss performing in 2013. \u003ccite>(Photo: Michael Schwartz/WireImage)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I did too, mainly because I’m biased against that very thing, only because that’s when things go wrong — when you’re not in a controlled environment and you’re with inexperienced people. I think years from now we could look at taking psychedelics in those situations, after we get things approved the right way, in clinics, train people how to use them in a sensible way, and find out what they’re all about. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Admittedly, I’ve never really had a bad trip. I guess I’ve had one, and I’ve had all sorts of difficult trips where I had to learn things about myself, but those are often the most rewarding. I’ve had fun with psychedelics, but I’m also really experienced, so I know not to overdo it. I went to go see David Gilmour on some acid earlier this year and it was like a religious experience. I was crying because it was so beautiful. But I also made sure I took a reasonable amount on a full stomach and had plenty of water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Certainly, compared to alcohol, which caused me a lot of problems in my life and is one of the most pervasive, harmful drugs that exist, I think psychedelics could be a great alternative. People should be taking a break and analyzing their lives every once in a while. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s your opinion on \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdosing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">microdosing\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t have one. I think that starting with microdosing is a great idea, so you slowly work your way up instead of going, “I never tripped before, but let’s just go for it and do five hits of acid. I might as well get the full experience!” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I’ve never microdosed. Every time I go to microdose, I just end up doing a full dose because… I… just feel like it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Before you go: do you still have crates of those candles in beer mugs?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, I think I gave the last three to my roommate as a joke. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Why did you buy crates of those candles again?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I wrote some joke about how there’s “mandles” — candles for men — and how whipped dudes are, like they’d be in a mall and get dragged into some candle store. Finally, they’d get frustrated and be like, “What about what I want to smell?!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a joke I used five times on stage and then lost interest in. But after the second time I told it, I was so excited I bought hundreds of beer mug candles to sell after the show. So many beer mug candles! And then I stopped doing the joke because it just wasn’t working that well; it just wasn’t that funny. [Laughs] \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"Q.Logo.Break\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Listen to \u003cb>Here We Are\u003c/b> at \u003ca href=\"http://www.herewearepodcast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">herewearepodcast.com.\u003c/a>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The host of the 'Here We Are' podcast, comedian Shane Mauss, wants you and everyone else open themselves up to new experiences, psychedelic or not. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705031903,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":33,"wordCount":1719},"headData":{"title":"Expanding Your Consciousness with Shane Mauss’s Podcast ‘Here We Are’ | KQED","description":"The host of the 'Here We Are' podcast, comedian Shane Mauss, wants you and everyone else open themselves up to new experiences, psychedelic or not. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Expanding Your Consciousness with Shane Mauss’s Podcast ‘Here We Are’","datePublished":"2017-01-14T16:00:00.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T03:58:23.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/12622799/expanding-your-consciousness-with-shane-mausss-podcast-here-we-are","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When you hear the word “enlightened,” it’s doubtful comedian \u003ca href=\"http://www.shanemauss.com/#goodtriptour\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shane Mauss\u003c/a> comes to mind. Not to say that he’s stupid or depends too much on riffs about flatulence and, uh, \u003cem>other matters\u003c/em> of the posterior (though he does have those jokes). It’s just that a lot of his comedy seems to come from making bad decisions. For example, his 2015 album, \u003ci>My Big Break,\u003c/i> is all about how he jumped off a cliff and broke both of his ankles at the same time. Sure, his telling of the incident is hilarious, but he also admits that \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbPwXCWc0B0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">he knew he was going to hurt himself\u003c/a> before he leaped. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Mauss’s standup is much different than his podcast \u003ci>Here We Are,\u003c/i> which is focused on science, the benefits of psychedelics and the need for society to increase its “openness.” Each episode features Mauss interviewing scientists and experts, usually on heady topics such as using psychotherapy to treat PTSD and the perception of time. (There’s also an episode about sperm competition.) It’s a show with the goal of expanding his listeners’ consciousness, hosted by a comedian with a bit about \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mB86bRvdM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">man caves\u003c/a>. And though it comes out semi-regularly, he now averages 50,000 downloads an episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of all Mauss’s interests covered on the podcast, he spends the most time discussing psychedelics. An avid user who trips at least four times a year, usually more, the 36-year-old comedian now has an entire show called “A Good Trip” about his adventures on all kinds of mind-expanding drugs. Over the past few months, he’s sold out many of his nearly 100 dates — when I talked to him as he drove down the coast to Santa Cruz, he had sold out seven shows in a row. So we talked a lot about tripping, both the good and the bad, and a bit about his podcasting experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Interview edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>After listening to your podcast, I have to say that you are one enlightened individual.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12623204\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-800x1237.jpg\" alt='Flyer for \"A Good Trip\"' width=\"800\" height=\"1237\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12623204\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-800x1237.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-160x247.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-768x1187.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-1020x1577.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-1180x1824.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-960x1484.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-240x371.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-375x580.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image-520x804.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-A-Good-Trip-Image.jpg 1325w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Flyer for “A Good Trip.”\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Well thank you, but I have a long ways to go. What I tell myself all the time is that when I don’t feel like reading, I should just keep on reading because five years from now I’ll be smarter. A lot of people that are closed off — that are low on openness — view the future as scary because it’s unknown, and there’s nothing scarier than the unknown. They cling to the past and “whatever that I already knew is all that I need to know,” and that causes a lot of problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>When you say “openness,” what do you mean?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s five personality traits that psychologists often study, and openness is one of them. We talk about it a fair amount on the podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Openness really relates to political views. Most people are in the middle, but if you’re really high in openness, not only are you not scared of novelty and ambiguity, but you really thrive off of it. You like adventure and new experiences, and you’re probably inquisitive and creative. The downside is that you probably take a few too many chances in life. Sometimes people that are high in openness have no respect for authority — I fall into this category — and that can cause you some trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re low on openness, you’re the type of person that is much more into tradition and routine, and the past is very important to you. New experiences and outsiders can be scary. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s one of the most flexible traits that we have, and it’s less about genes than any other trait. It’s really just about getting out and searching for new experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Did psychedelics have anything to do with increasing your openness?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think so. My first psychedelic experience was when I took mushrooms when I was 15 years old. Psychedelics aren’t for everybody, but for a lot of people they work well, and for me, they just clicked with my brain. It was perfect. I was just searching and searching for any kind of escape from this little bubble I found myself in, and any ways of thinking differently about life. I didn’t like the way I saw the majority of the people around me in the small town in Wisconsin where I grew up. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As soon as I took psychedelics, it opened up everything, and that’s what psychedelics have been proven to do quite reliably: it literally opens you up. It makes you see different possibilities, which is a testable effect. But you don’t need drugs for that either. You can read different books that you’d never consider reading, you can travel more and have new experiences, maybe take on new hobbies. Maybe change your occupation, or start your own small business that you’ve always dreamed about. New experiences are beneficial, and psychedelics provide new experiences, but like, on steroids. \u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/-y2FY1W9oiA'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/-y2FY1W9oiA'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>But that can sometimes be too much, too quickly. I know at least one person that took acid and hasn’t been the same since.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ugh, I hear that so much about LSD. Once you get up around ten hits in a single dose… I’ve heard plenty of stories about people having \u003cem>waaaayyy\u003c/em> too much one evening who never were the same after that. I don’t think they were any different chemically, it’s just that the experience itself can be traumatizing. If it’s too intense, you kind of develop a PTSD from it. Counterintuitively, psychedelic treatments have been known to correct some PTSD cases, and even schizophrenia. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this is why I focus my show on the clinical use of psychedelic drugs, like MDMA. We’re sponsored by the \u003ca href=\"http://www.maps.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies\u003c/a> (MAPS), and they’re close to getting it legalized. MDMA could be the first psychedelic to be legal, but for clinical use only. I think that once psychedelics are able to be given in a safe, clinical environment, then that’s when I would start telling more people to give it a shot. Until that time, I’m not a big advocate of using psychedelics for recreational use, and I certainly don’t support using them as a party drug. I don’t think that’s what they’re all about. They’re therapeutic, meditative aids, and though there can be something special about doing psychedelics at a music festival, that’s also where most of the trouble happens. People go overboard with it and don’t know what they’re doing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>But I did appreciate what Rick Dobin, the founder of MAPS, said about \u003ca href=\"http://www.herewearepodcast.com/episode/103/rick-doblin\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">one of your episodes\u003c/a> about how taking psychedelics at a musical event can be a religious experience for some. \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12624744\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 596px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1.png\" alt=\"Mauss performing in 2013\" width=\"596\" height=\"474\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12624744\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1.png 596w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-160x127.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-240x191.png 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-375x298.png 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Shane-Mauss-1-520x414.png 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 596px) 100vw, 596px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mauss performing in 2013. \u003ccite>(Photo: Michael Schwartz/WireImage)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I did too, mainly because I’m biased against that very thing, only because that’s when things go wrong — when you’re not in a controlled environment and you’re with inexperienced people. I think years from now we could look at taking psychedelics in those situations, after we get things approved the right way, in clinics, train people how to use them in a sensible way, and find out what they’re all about. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Admittedly, I’ve never really had a bad trip. I guess I’ve had one, and I’ve had all sorts of difficult trips where I had to learn things about myself, but those are often the most rewarding. I’ve had fun with psychedelics, but I’m also really experienced, so I know not to overdo it. I went to go see David Gilmour on some acid earlier this year and it was like a religious experience. I was crying because it was so beautiful. But I also made sure I took a reasonable amount on a full stomach and had plenty of water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Certainly, compared to alcohol, which caused me a lot of problems in my life and is one of the most pervasive, harmful drugs that exist, I think psychedelics could be a great alternative. People should be taking a break and analyzing their lives every once in a while. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s your opinion on \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdosing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">microdosing\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t have one. I think that starting with microdosing is a great idea, so you slowly work your way up instead of going, “I never tripped before, but let’s just go for it and do five hits of acid. I might as well get the full experience!” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I’ve never microdosed. Every time I go to microdose, I just end up doing a full dose because… I… just feel like it. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Before you go: do you still have crates of those candles in beer mugs?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, I think I gave the last three to my roommate as a joke. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Why did you buy crates of those candles again?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I wrote some joke about how there’s “mandles” — candles for men — and how whipped dudes are, like they’d be in a mall and get dragged into some candle store. Finally, they’d get frustrated and be like, “What about what I want to smell?!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was a joke I used five times on stage and then lost interest in. But after the second time I told it, I was so excited I bought hundreds of beer mug candles to sell after the show. So many beer mug candles! And then I stopped doing the joke because it just wasn’t working that well; it just wasn’t that funny. [Laughs] \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"Q.Logo.Break\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Listen to \u003cb>Here We Are\u003c/b> at \u003ca href=\"http://www.herewearepodcast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">herewearepodcast.com.\u003c/a>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/12622799/expanding-your-consciousness-with-shane-mausss-podcast-here-we-are","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_12622995","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_12061768":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_12061768","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"12061768","score":null,"sort":[1473798273000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"karina-longworth-talks-you-must-remember-this-before-going-on-hiatus","title":"Karina Longworth Talks 'You Must Remember This' Before Going on Hiatus","publishDate":1473798273,"format":"image","headTitle":"Karina Longworth Talks ‘You Must Remember This’ Before Going on Hiatus | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>If you’re a fan of the podcast \u003ci>\u003ca href=\"http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/about/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">You Must Remember This\u003c/a>,\u003c/i> then you awoke to the sad news that the “\u003ca href=\"http://flavorwire.com/520338/the-internets-best-film-podcast-goes-true-crime-and-takes-on-charles-manson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Internet’s best film podcast\u003c/a>” is going to stop for a bit: Its creator, \u003ca href=\"http://www.vidiocy.com/bio-and-clips/#bio\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">award-winning film historian\u003c/a> Karina Longworth, is taking a long hiatus so she can finish a book about the Hollywood starlets who dated Howard Hughes (because of course she is).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re unfamiliar with the podcast, then this is the perfect time to start listening to the archives. There are only 92 episodes, but the stories that Longworth digs up from the “secret and/or forgotten histories of Hollywood’s first century” are like the movies her subjects starred in — full of passion, heartbreak, tragedy, and unforgettable characters. The tales of Rita Hayworth, Joan Crawford and Spencer Tracy are known to many, but when told with Longworth’s snarky-yet-empathetic spin, they are given new life, and are more palatable to someone with today’s social sensibilities. And if the subject seems unappealing, know that one doesn’t have to be a fan of black-and-white movies from the ’40s and ’50s to enjoy Longworth’s detailing of the career-destroying Hollywood Blacklist or the brutal Manson Family murders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/PP7495884346\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I spoke with Longworth last week so I could have her answer the dozens of questions burning a hole in my brain since I began listening to her show, knowing that she was going to be holed away working on a book for the next several months. Longworth proved to be a fun and patient subject — she obviously understands that few people know as much about classical Hollywood as her — and it was hard to stop asking questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Interview edited for clarity and length.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Were you always a fan of classical Hollywood?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t remember a time when I wasn’t into old movies. They were primarily what I watched as a kid because my parents weren’t really interested in new movies and didn’t take me to see them and were pretty strict about what I was allowed to see in terms of new movies. There were a couple of new movies that filtered into me, like I saw \u003ci>Ghostbusters\u003c/i> and \u003ci>Back to the Future,\u003c/i> but that’s kind of it. It was pretty much just old Disney movies; we had the Disney channel and the thing about the Disney channel is that they would show old animated movies and old live action movies but then at night they would have — I’m sure it wasn’t called “Disney Channel after dark” but that’s my memory of it — and they’d show Cary Grant movies and Jimmy Stewart movies, and it was supposed to be for adults, but I would watch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve said you heard the podcast in your head before you made it. Did any other shows inspire you to make a podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was listening to a lot of podcasts but there wasn’t anything that I heard that sounded like what I had in my head. In fact, I wasn’t sure anybody would want to listen to what I had in my head, but I knew that in order to explain to people what it was in my head, I would have to make it, because there wasn’t anything I could point to as an example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12064153\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12064153\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-800x476.jpg\" alt=\"How Longworth records her podcast\" width=\"800\" height=\"476\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-800x476.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-400x238.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-768x457.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-960x571.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">How Longworth records her podcast \u003ccite>(Photo: Meghann Lee)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How did you come up with your introduction phrase, “Join us, won’t you?”\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s just one of those things I heard in my head. It was actually one of the important aspects of the show I heard in my head. I wanted the show to feel like something spooky that you would hear late at night on a drive through the middle of nowhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Are there subjects you enjoy more than others?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because it’s a lot of work to make the podcast, I try not to even choose to make an episode about a topic I’m not interested in. But within that, certainly there are movies I enjoy watching more than other movies. I think you can tell by the topics I’ve worked on; I’ve definitely talked about more women than men, and there are certain genres that I haven’t gotten into that much. Some of that is just that there’s a lot to do and I haven’t done it all yet. I don’t talk about Westerns all that often because I’m not that knowledgeable about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On some level the show is about having an excuse to learn about things that I’ve always wanted to learn about but haven’t yet. But on another level, I have to know a little bit about a subject to even go into making a podcast episode about it because if I start from scratch, it’s just too hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The subjects you cover on the podcast were reported on by both serious journalists and tabloid reporters. How do you balance all the information you come across and make sure it’s factual?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t believe anything I read, really. History is all written from a point of view and I see it all as just stories, whether it’s proven to be true or not; it’s all just a tapestry of public ideas. I take everything with a grain of salt, but there are certain stories that get repeated many, many times and the original source is the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em> — those events certainly happened. Then there are other events that are only one or two sources and their reports about it conflict, and those are more interesting to me; a lot of the show is about conflicting details and why somebody would’ve said that something happened this way while someone else said it happened another way. On one level the show is less a work of history and more of a work of historiography because it’s about the way stories are told than the stories themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"aligncenter noborder\">\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdmGqLMqE4\n\u003cp class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u003ci>This is footage from the first televised Oscars ceremony in 1953 of Gloria Grahame winning the award for Best Supporting Actress. In her episode about Grahame, Longworth reports that what wasn’t aired was Grahame tripping while walking up the stairs and blurting “Oh shit!” when she fell, which became scandal worthy of constant coverage in the tabloids.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL1887281863\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you ever feel the need to use your podcast to correct history?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I wouldn’t say “correct” because I don’t know what really happened in any of these cases. The tagline for the show is that it is about the secret and forgotten histories, and for me a lot of the secret history stuff is about looking at these events from the perspective of today, from a female perspective — especially on stories from the 1940s and ’50s. The default voice of American popular culture was from powerful white males. So if you were living a life that didn’t necessarily fit perfectly with the expectations of that default voice, then your story was either skewed or wasn’t told completely. I think coming at it from my perspective, that of a woman who was born near the end of the 20th century and living in the time that we’re in now, I’m able to see things from a different angle and tell a different version of the history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you ever feel like you would fit better in the times that you cover, the ’40s or ’50s? Like you were meant to live in the past?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, I don’t want to time travel or feel like I was born in the wrong time or anything. I would say that I grew up during a time in which it was so much more normal to be interested in movies than it is now. Now it’s almost a specialty to follow anything but Marvel movies, but that’s just times changing and me getting older. I’m never going to watch YouTube content — that’s just not something I’m going to be into — but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to be cosplaying the ’60s or whatever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12064160\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12064160\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-600x600.jpg\" alt=\"The podcast's logo\" width=\"600\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-600x600.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-400x400.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-1920x1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The podcast’s logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>So if I met you in person, you wouldn’t be rocking a bee hive and wearing knee-high white leather boots?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, but I did just buy a car from 1987. That’s a real thing that just happened. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Was it because it was affordable?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was, but it was because I had a newish car and then the three-year lease ended, and I’ve always loved these Mercedes SLs from the ’80s. I realized that I could get one for less than what I spent on my car lease, so if it lasted these three years, then I’d break even. But then it turned out to be really hard to find one that was in good shape. It was a two-month search and I finally found one; it’s having its air conditioning fixed and I’m going to pick it up tomorrow. So, I guess I will be cosplaying 1987. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The best film history podcast on the Internet is going on a hiatus for several months, so the Earful jumped on the opportunity to ask its creator all the questions that have been plaguing us since we began listening.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705033044,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":27,"wordCount":1638},"headData":{"title":"Karina Longworth Talks 'You Must Remember This' Before Going on Hiatus | KQED","description":"The best film history podcast on the Internet is going on a hiatus for several months, so the Earful jumped on the opportunity to ask its creator all the questions that have been plaguing us since we began listening.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Karina Longworth Talks 'You Must Remember This' Before Going on Hiatus","datePublished":"2016-09-13T20:24:33.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T04:17:24.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"493806063","path":"/arts/12061768/karina-longworth-talks-you-must-remember-this-before-going-on-hiatus","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>If you’re a fan of the podcast \u003ci>\u003ca href=\"http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/about/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">You Must Remember This\u003c/a>,\u003c/i> then you awoke to the sad news that the “\u003ca href=\"http://flavorwire.com/520338/the-internets-best-film-podcast-goes-true-crime-and-takes-on-charles-manson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Internet’s best film podcast\u003c/a>” is going to stop for a bit: Its creator, \u003ca href=\"http://www.vidiocy.com/bio-and-clips/#bio\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">award-winning film historian\u003c/a> Karina Longworth, is taking a long hiatus so she can finish a book about the Hollywood starlets who dated Howard Hughes (because of course she is).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re unfamiliar with the podcast, then this is the perfect time to start listening to the archives. There are only 92 episodes, but the stories that Longworth digs up from the “secret and/or forgotten histories of Hollywood’s first century” are like the movies her subjects starred in — full of passion, heartbreak, tragedy, and unforgettable characters. The tales of Rita Hayworth, Joan Crawford and Spencer Tracy are known to many, but when told with Longworth’s snarky-yet-empathetic spin, they are given new life, and are more palatable to someone with today’s social sensibilities. And if the subject seems unappealing, know that one doesn’t have to be a fan of black-and-white movies from the ’40s and ’50s to enjoy Longworth’s detailing of the career-destroying Hollywood Blacklist or the brutal Manson Family murders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/PP7495884346\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I spoke with Longworth last week so I could have her answer the dozens of questions burning a hole in my brain since I began listening to her show, knowing that she was going to be holed away working on a book for the next several months. Longworth proved to be a fun and patient subject — she obviously understands that few people know as much about classical Hollywood as her — and it was hard to stop asking questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Interview edited for clarity and length.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Were you always a fan of classical Hollywood?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t remember a time when I wasn’t into old movies. They were primarily what I watched as a kid because my parents weren’t really interested in new movies and didn’t take me to see them and were pretty strict about what I was allowed to see in terms of new movies. There were a couple of new movies that filtered into me, like I saw \u003ci>Ghostbusters\u003c/i> and \u003ci>Back to the Future,\u003c/i> but that’s kind of it. It was pretty much just old Disney movies; we had the Disney channel and the thing about the Disney channel is that they would show old animated movies and old live action movies but then at night they would have — I’m sure it wasn’t called “Disney Channel after dark” but that’s my memory of it — and they’d show Cary Grant movies and Jimmy Stewart movies, and it was supposed to be for adults, but I would watch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve said you heard the podcast in your head before you made it. Did any other shows inspire you to make a podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I was listening to a lot of podcasts but there wasn’t anything that I heard that sounded like what I had in my head. In fact, I wasn’t sure anybody would want to listen to what I had in my head, but I knew that in order to explain to people what it was in my head, I would have to make it, because there wasn’t anything I could point to as an example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12064153\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12064153\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-800x476.jpg\" alt=\"How Longworth records her podcast\" width=\"800\" height=\"476\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-800x476.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-400x238.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-768x457.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152-960x571.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/London400tmax152.jpg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">How Longworth records her podcast \u003ccite>(Photo: Meghann Lee)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How did you come up with your introduction phrase, “Join us, won’t you?”\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s just one of those things I heard in my head. It was actually one of the important aspects of the show I heard in my head. I wanted the show to feel like something spooky that you would hear late at night on a drive through the middle of nowhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Are there subjects you enjoy more than others?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because it’s a lot of work to make the podcast, I try not to even choose to make an episode about a topic I’m not interested in. But within that, certainly there are movies I enjoy watching more than other movies. I think you can tell by the topics I’ve worked on; I’ve definitely talked about more women than men, and there are certain genres that I haven’t gotten into that much. Some of that is just that there’s a lot to do and I haven’t done it all yet. I don’t talk about Westerns all that often because I’m not that knowledgeable about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On some level the show is about having an excuse to learn about things that I’ve always wanted to learn about but haven’t yet. But on another level, I have to know a little bit about a subject to even go into making a podcast episode about it because if I start from scratch, it’s just too hard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The subjects you cover on the podcast were reported on by both serious journalists and tabloid reporters. How do you balance all the information you come across and make sure it’s factual?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t believe anything I read, really. History is all written from a point of view and I see it all as just stories, whether it’s proven to be true or not; it’s all just a tapestry of public ideas. I take everything with a grain of salt, but there are certain stories that get repeated many, many times and the original source is the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em> — those events certainly happened. Then there are other events that are only one or two sources and their reports about it conflict, and those are more interesting to me; a lot of the show is about conflicting details and why somebody would’ve said that something happened this way while someone else said it happened another way. On one level the show is less a work of history and more of a work of historiography because it’s about the way stories are told than the stories themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"aligncenter noborder\">\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/DNdmGqLMqE4'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/DNdmGqLMqE4'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u003ci>This is footage from the first televised Oscars ceremony in 1953 of Gloria Grahame winning the award for Best Supporting Actress. In her episode about Grahame, Longworth reports that what wasn’t aired was Grahame tripping while walking up the stairs and blurting “Oh shit!” when she fell, which became scandal worthy of constant coverage in the tabloids.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003ciframe width=\"100%\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"no\" src=\"https://player.megaphone.fm/KL1887281863\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you ever feel the need to use your podcast to correct history?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I wouldn’t say “correct” because I don’t know what really happened in any of these cases. The tagline for the show is that it is about the secret and forgotten histories, and for me a lot of the secret history stuff is about looking at these events from the perspective of today, from a female perspective — especially on stories from the 1940s and ’50s. The default voice of American popular culture was from powerful white males. So if you were living a life that didn’t necessarily fit perfectly with the expectations of that default voice, then your story was either skewed or wasn’t told completely. I think coming at it from my perspective, that of a woman who was born near the end of the 20th century and living in the time that we’re in now, I’m able to see things from a different angle and tell a different version of the history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you ever feel like you would fit better in the times that you cover, the ’40s or ’50s? Like you were meant to live in the past?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, I don’t want to time travel or feel like I was born in the wrong time or anything. I would say that I grew up during a time in which it was so much more normal to be interested in movies than it is now. Now it’s almost a specialty to follow anything but Marvel movies, but that’s just times changing and me getting older. I’m never going to watch YouTube content — that’s just not something I’m going to be into — but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to be cosplaying the ’60s or whatever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12064160\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12064160\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-600x600.jpg\" alt=\"The podcast's logo\" width=\"600\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-600x600.jpg 600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-400x400.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-1920x1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/YMRTLogoHighRes-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The podcast’s logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>So if I met you in person, you wouldn’t be rocking a bee hive and wearing knee-high white leather boots?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No, but I did just buy a car from 1987. That’s a real thing that just happened. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Was it because it was affordable?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was, but it was because I had a newish car and then the three-year lease ended, and I’ve always loved these Mercedes SLs from the ’80s. I realized that I could get one for less than what I spent on my car lease, so if it lasted these three years, then I’d break even. But then it turned out to be really hard to find one that was in good shape. It was a two-month search and I finally found one; it’s having its air conditioning fixed and I’m going to pick it up tomorrow. So, I guess I will be cosplaying 1987. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/12061768/karina-longworth-talks-you-must-remember-this-before-going-on-hiatus","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71","arts_74","arts_75"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_12061951","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_11971346":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_11971346","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"11971346","score":null,"sort":[1472050827000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-world-according-to-sound-lets-listeners-create-their-own-experiences","title":"'The World According to Sound' Lets Listeners Create Their Own Experiences","publishDate":1472050827,"format":"image","headTitle":"‘The World According to Sound’ Lets Listeners Create Their Own Experiences | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>It was looking like everything in the world of podcasting had been done — anybody want a new interview podcast? — and then \u003ca href=\"http://www.theworldaccordingtosound.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The World According to Sound\u003c/a> (WATS) came along to redefine what a podcast could be. If you’re not familiar with it, each 90-second episode of WATS takes enough time to play a unique sound and present its story, and that’s it. While the result may not serve people in need of background noise while they exercise or do their chores, what they’ve created certainly provides escape, if only for a minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Its producers, Sam Harnett (a KQED reporter) and Chris Hoff (a KALW engineer), wanted to create a show that didn’t tell audiences what to think. They want listeners of each tiny episode to come away with their own experiences, and the subjects they cover provide plenty to think about: recordings of ants walking, a song CNN has queued up in case the world ends, or vintage audio of Nazi fighter planes on the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[soundcloud url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/249887790″ params=”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false” width=”100%” height=”166″ iframe=”true” /]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Earful spoke with Harnett and Hoff last week about the show’s concept and how they’ve made it work. We also learned what they have in store for their live performances on Aug. 26 and 27 at The Lab in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Interview is edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How did you two come up with the show?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Hoff:\u003c/b> It came to us during a hike that Sam and I took about a year ago. We were talking shop about radio and we found we both wanted to do something new in the medium. We almost said it at the same time: “I’m sick of narrative and I want to try something else.” So we decided to do something with sound and that was basically it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett:\u003c/b> Yeah, once we recognized we were allies, that Chris wasn’t the biggest fan of classic public radio storytelling, we were like, “How can we create something that doesn’t have a narrative arc?” And we realized that if we made something really short, we’re not going to have to suck people in and keep their attention for four minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our initial idea was 60 seconds, which we decided was too short. So we tried 90 seconds and it started to work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11971349\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots.jpg\" alt=\"Sam Harnett recording a mud pot\" width=\"800\" height=\"815\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11971349\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-400x408.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-589x600.jpg 589w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-768x782.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-64x64.jpg 64w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sam Harnett recording a mud pot \u003ccite>(Photo: Gundi Vigfusson)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>On your website, you write that you didn’t want to tell people what to think. Do you find that’s an issue in traditional radio storytelling?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I’m also a reporter and I do a lot of traditional storytelling, which is great: it can be super powerful, it’s a great way to convey information and get someone caring about something in the story. But if you start thinking about the narrative format, you have to lead somebody on a journey and to do that, the listener has to trust and follow you. You become the person dispensing information, choosing what they learn and don’t learn. I feel like a lot of great radio — I hate to use the word manipulative, but you’re not telling them a lot. And if you’re not providing narrative tension, then people tune out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I feel like that a lot of great shows, even when they provide great information and have a moving story, the structure is such that the listener is being led somewhere. So we wanted to make a space where we actually don’t say that much and create enough sound so that the listener’s mind wanders and they begin to think of stuff that we’re not directing them to think of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How do you find the sounds that you feature on the podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> We’ve gotten some from friends and fans, but a lot of them have come from just talking to people. Somehow, if I’m thinking with my “sound hat” on, ideas come out through normal conversation. I have to have my “sound hat” on to do this, and I’m not always doing that…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Dude, where is your sound hat? Are you hiding it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> It’s at home. But yeah, people don’t give me ideas; they just come out through conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I just Google random sh*t, like “what’s the biggest instrument in the world?” That was a good one — that led me to the cave, which we featured in the episode “Sonic Stalactites.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[soundcloud url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/267722263″ params=”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false” width=”100%” height=”166″ iframe=”true” /]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I’ve also Googled “smallest instrument in the world” and that turned out not to be that great of a story idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I do spend a lot of time on random thought experiments — “I wonder what that’s like?” But Chris is right: once you get in that mindset, you start thinking “what does X sound like? Can you record it?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Have there been sounds you wish you could present but found they didn’t work with the show?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I don’t think we’ve ever run into that. If the sound is good, it’s really all about that. If we deem a sound to be cool, we’re going to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I think there are times where you can’t just play the sound because it’s either not long enough or in order to do the story, you’d have to have a different format where you talked all the time so you could explain the sound and give it context. We don’t do those.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is a thing for us to throw out sounds, even though they’d be cool to talk about. But that’s because they don’t fit the bill, which is to be a sound that by listening, you understand things without being told about it. But I can’t think of a concrete example, can you Chris?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> Well, we tried gunshots. That was a really interesting idea and story but the sound was completely uninteresting. We had the idea of trying to understand the \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Michael Brown shooting\u003c/a> through the type of gun that was used and the sound that it made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> And the idea was to recreate the event sonically, and have people hear it and think about it through how it sounded. And it didn’t work. It was an interesting theoretical concept but we just played some gunshots and were like, “that’s terrible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> Yeah, it was sonically uninteresting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[soundcloud url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/221367374″ params=”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false” width=”100%” height=”166″ iframe=”true” /]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How are you going to take your show live? And is it going to work?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Those are some big questions! But we think it’s going to work better today than we did a week ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I think it’s going to be really good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Are you being positive, Hoff? Who are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I was really scared and fretting five days ago, but I think the really big thing we’re doing with this show is the way that we’re configuring the sound system itself — we have eight discreet channels of audio, all playing their own thing. And the way we’re going to be playing with the sound is going to be really, really unique; stuff that no one has ever heard before. That alone, along with the sounds we already have, is going to be a really worthwhile, new experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> When we started doing, the nervousness came from the fact that no one does this. Artists have done similar things but they were making art — sound art. Our sounds all have conceptual components, like mud pots — the conceptual component is that when you hear these mud pots, they sound personified. It’s like they’re talking, and that’s cool. And now we have eight speakers, so we can have eight mud pots going at once and really blow up the concept. That’s great, but it also means we have to mix eight discreet channels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> It’s technically really difficult but so far the results have been really positive. Even if we just went there and played this awesome mix we made, that in itself would be a cool experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> But The Lab (where the show is being held) is letting us experiment, so we can be really novel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cb>The World According to Sound\u003c/b> will be hosting two shows — Aug. 26 and 27 — at The Lab in San Francisco. \u003ca href=\"http://www.thelab.org/projects/2016/7/28/the-world-according-to-sound\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">For tickets and more information\u003c/a>, visit The Lab’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.thelab.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">website\u003c/a>. \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Producers Chris Hoff and Sam Harnett have created a podcast like no other, and now they're taking it live.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705033228,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":39,"wordCount":1618},"headData":{"title":"'The World According to Sound' Lets Listeners Create Their Own Experiences | KQED","description":"Producers Chris Hoff and Sam Harnett have created a podcast like no other, and now they're taking it live.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"'The World According to Sound' Lets Listeners Create Their Own Experiences","datePublished":"2016-08-24T15:00:27.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T04:20:28.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/11971346/the-world-according-to-sound-lets-listeners-create-their-own-experiences","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>It was looking like everything in the world of podcasting had been done — anybody want a new interview podcast? — and then \u003ca href=\"http://www.theworldaccordingtosound.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The World According to Sound\u003c/a> (WATS) came along to redefine what a podcast could be. If you’re not familiar with it, each 90-second episode of WATS takes enough time to play a unique sound and present its story, and that’s it. While the result may not serve people in need of background noise while they exercise or do their chores, what they’ve created certainly provides escape, if only for a minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Its producers, Sam Harnett (a KQED reporter) and Chris Hoff (a KALW engineer), wanted to create a show that didn’t tell audiences what to think. They want listeners of each tiny episode to come away with their own experiences, and the subjects they cover provide plenty to think about: recordings of ants walking, a song CNN has queued up in case the world ends, or vintage audio of Nazi fighter planes on the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cdiv class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__shortcodes__shortcodeWrapper'>\n \u003ciframe width='”100%”' height='”166″'\n scrolling='no' frameborder='no'\n src='https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/249887790″&visual=true&”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false”'\n title='”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/249887790″'>\n \u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/div>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Earful spoke with Harnett and Hoff last week about the show’s concept and how they’ve made it work. We also learned what they have in store for their live performances on Aug. 26 and 27 at The Lab in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Interview is edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How did you two come up with the show?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Hoff:\u003c/b> It came to us during a hike that Sam and I took about a year ago. We were talking shop about radio and we found we both wanted to do something new in the medium. We almost said it at the same time: “I’m sick of narrative and I want to try something else.” So we decided to do something with sound and that was basically it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett:\u003c/b> Yeah, once we recognized we were allies, that Chris wasn’t the biggest fan of classic public radio storytelling, we were like, “How can we create something that doesn’t have a narrative arc?” And we realized that if we made something really short, we’re not going to have to suck people in and keep their attention for four minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our initial idea was 60 seconds, which we decided was too short. So we tried 90 seconds and it started to work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11971349\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots.jpg\" alt=\"Sam Harnett recording a mud pot\" width=\"800\" height=\"815\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11971349\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-400x408.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-589x600.jpg 589w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-768x782.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/08/Sam-interviewing-mud-pots-64x64.jpg 64w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sam Harnett recording a mud pot \u003ccite>(Photo: Gundi Vigfusson)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>On your website, you write that you didn’t want to tell people what to think. Do you find that’s an issue in traditional radio storytelling?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I’m also a reporter and I do a lot of traditional storytelling, which is great: it can be super powerful, it’s a great way to convey information and get someone caring about something in the story. But if you start thinking about the narrative format, you have to lead somebody on a journey and to do that, the listener has to trust and follow you. You become the person dispensing information, choosing what they learn and don’t learn. I feel like a lot of great radio — I hate to use the word manipulative, but you’re not telling them a lot. And if you’re not providing narrative tension, then people tune out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I feel like that a lot of great shows, even when they provide great information and have a moving story, the structure is such that the listener is being led somewhere. So we wanted to make a space where we actually don’t say that much and create enough sound so that the listener’s mind wanders and they begin to think of stuff that we’re not directing them to think of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How do you find the sounds that you feature on the podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> We’ve gotten some from friends and fans, but a lot of them have come from just talking to people. Somehow, if I’m thinking with my “sound hat” on, ideas come out through normal conversation. I have to have my “sound hat” on to do this, and I’m not always doing that…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Dude, where is your sound hat? Are you hiding it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> It’s at home. But yeah, people don’t give me ideas; they just come out through conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I just Google random sh*t, like “what’s the biggest instrument in the world?” That was a good one — that led me to the cave, which we featured in the episode “Sonic Stalactites.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cdiv class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__shortcodes__shortcodeWrapper'>\n \u003ciframe width='”100%”' height='”166″'\n scrolling='no' frameborder='no'\n src='https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/267722263″&visual=true&”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false”'\n title='”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/267722263″'>\n \u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/div>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I’ve also Googled “smallest instrument in the world” and that turned out not to be that great of a story idea.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I do spend a lot of time on random thought experiments — “I wonder what that’s like?” But Chris is right: once you get in that mindset, you start thinking “what does X sound like? Can you record it?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Have there been sounds you wish you could present but found they didn’t work with the show?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I don’t think we’ve ever run into that. If the sound is good, it’s really all about that. If we deem a sound to be cool, we’re going to do it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> I think there are times where you can’t just play the sound because it’s either not long enough or in order to do the story, you’d have to have a different format where you talked all the time so you could explain the sound and give it context. We don’t do those.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is a thing for us to throw out sounds, even though they’d be cool to talk about. But that’s because they don’t fit the bill, which is to be a sound that by listening, you understand things without being told about it. But I can’t think of a concrete example, can you Chris?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> Well, we tried gunshots. That was a really interesting idea and story but the sound was completely uninteresting. We had the idea of trying to understand the \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Michael Brown shooting\u003c/a> through the type of gun that was used and the sound that it made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> And the idea was to recreate the event sonically, and have people hear it and think about it through how it sounded. And it didn’t work. It was an interesting theoretical concept but we just played some gunshots and were like, “that’s terrible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> Yeah, it was sonically uninteresting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cdiv class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__shortcodes__shortcodeWrapper'>\n \u003ciframe width='”100%”' height='”166″'\n scrolling='no' frameborder='no'\n src='https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/221367374″&visual=true&”color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false”'\n title='”https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/221367374″'>\n \u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/div>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How are you going to take your show live? And is it going to work?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Those are some big questions! But we think it’s going to work better today than we did a week ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I think it’s going to be really good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> Are you being positive, Hoff? Who are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> I was really scared and fretting five days ago, but I think the really big thing we’re doing with this show is the way that we’re configuring the sound system itself — we have eight discreet channels of audio, all playing their own thing. And the way we’re going to be playing with the sound is going to be really, really unique; stuff that no one has ever heard before. That alone, along with the sounds we already have, is going to be a really worthwhile, new experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> When we started doing, the nervousness came from the fact that no one does this. Artists have done similar things but they were making art — sound art. Our sounds all have conceptual components, like mud pots — the conceptual component is that when you hear these mud pots, they sound personified. It’s like they’re talking, and that’s cool. And now we have eight speakers, so we can have eight mud pots going at once and really blow up the concept. That’s great, but it also means we have to mix eight discreet channels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoff:\u003c/b> It’s technically really difficult but so far the results have been really positive. Even if we just went there and played this awesome mix we made, that in itself would be a cool experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harnett:\u003c/b> But The Lab (where the show is being held) is letting us experiment, so we can be really novel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cb>The World According to Sound\u003c/b> will be hosting two shows — Aug. 26 and 27 — at The Lab in San Francisco. \u003ca href=\"http://www.thelab.org/projects/2016/7/28/the-world-according-to-sound\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">For tickets and more information\u003c/a>, visit The Lab’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.thelab.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">website\u003c/a>. \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/11971346/the-world-according-to-sound-lets-listeners-create-their-own-experiences","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_11971348","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_11912332":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_11912332","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"11912332","score":null,"sort":[1470927603000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"matt-gourley-on-podcasts-early-days-and-learning-production-on-the-fly","title":"Matt Gourley on Podcasts' Early Days and Learning Production on the Fly","publishDate":1470927603,"format":"image","headTitle":"Matt Gourley on Podcasts’ Early Days and Learning Production on the Fly | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>You might remember Matt Gourely’s smiling face from a series of \u003ca href=\"https://www.ispot.tv/topic/actor-actress/LyH/matt-gourley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Volkswagen commercials\u003c/a> he’s done, or maybe you saw him beyond sloshed on a few episodes of Comedy Central’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.cc.com/video-clips/r7zauz/drunk-history-wernher-von-braun--rocket-scientist--nazi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Drunk History\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. But what many avid podcast listeners know Gourley for is the magic he brings to their “ear holes” (his words).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gourley first made a name for himself in the podcasting world with \u003ca href=\"http://www.gosuperego.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003ci>Superego,\u003c/i>\u003c/a> the sketch comedy podcast he created with his good friend and fellow improviser Jeremy Carter. Launched in 2006, the show brought the pair’s supremely strange and silly brand of humor to the masses, and their fan base grew to include many prominent comedy stars, such as Patton Oswalt, Jason Sudekis, and Paul F. Tompkins, all of whom appeared on the show. (Tompkins even became a full-fledged member of the \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> team.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this year, Gourley and friends put the regular seasons of \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> to bed, as the labor required to create the sonic universe that the podcast inhabited exhausted Gourley. (The crew continues to perform live and record specials episodes for the Howl Network.) But by then Gourley was already doing several other podcasts, including \u003ci>James Bonding,\u003c/i> \u003ci>I Was There Too,\u003c/i> \u003ci>The Andy Daly Podcast Pilot Project\u003c/i> and \u003ci>Pistol Shrimps Radio.\u003c/i> He even helped co-found the short-lived podcast network offshoot of Earwolf, WolfPop. So of course the Earful wanted to talk with him as he is rich with podcast knowledge and experience, and as you’ll see, imaginary words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview was edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You started \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> in 2006, just two years after the medium was created. What was it like having a podcast back then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it was nice only in that we were doing something completely for ourselves. It wasn’t just that people weren’t listening because they didn’t know the show; they weren’t listening because they didn’t know the medium. To get people to listen, first we had to explain what the show was, and then we had to explain what a podcast was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the beginning, we had some of the sketches up on our crude website and Quicktime audio files, and people were probably listening more that way than anything else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k-IgxNOpCg\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’re self-taught and \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> had high production values, especially in the end. Were making them a lot of work?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The episodes from Season 1 were very short and actually pretty simple in their production style, so the editing and recording wasn’t taking long — I wasn’t really editing out that much at the time. But the publishing … it was miserable. Trying to get those things published to iTunes back in those days was so difficult. To troubleshoot meant you had to publish something and wait hours for iTunes to catch up. Even if it was working, iTunes wasn’t going to recognize it right away, so there was no real way to check your work. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were many nights where I’d literally stay up the entire night waiting to see if an episode went up, and that was so funny because nobody was really listening or had subscribed yet, so it was this self-imposed deadline I was putting on myself. I don’t know what I was doing. Later on, when we had large listener base and we’d have tech problems, I wasn’t that concerned and would just go to bed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The production work became more and more as the seasons went on, when I felt like the quality needed to be better. But the \u003cem>Star Wars\u003c/em> “Brown Squadron” sketches, because there was so much going on sonically and basically every line was a joke; every line was a reference to what was going on in that world, usually something to do with a laser blaster or or an explosion or a fly by. I just had so many tracks on these sketches and eventually they became too complicated, which is why we couldn’t sustain the podcast. It was a natural progression and I don’t mind that it went that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was also a “Swampbuckler’s Stunts” sketch that had so many levels and sound effects — usually sketches with a lot of action had a lot of sound effects. There were labors of love because I love \u003ci>Star Wars\u003c/i> and I love theme park stunt shows. For me, when I was producing those sketches, I wasn’t a saying, “it has to be good;” I was just enjoying the act of creating an environment and forgetting that it was a product. I was so enamored with a theme park stunt show for good and bad reasons, and when I listened back to it, it reminded me of my childhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvrLaB8YPHE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>When you were teaching yourself production, what resources did you use?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It happened so gradually that I don’t think I even knew I was teaching myself. I had done a little audio work prior to \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> on a fake radio show, which was kind of like the \u003ci>Colbert Report\u003c/i> before it existed. It was a fake conservative, Rush Limbaugh-type radio show, and I had put together some pitch examples of it using a digital music recorder that didn’t even have a visual display; it was all done by ear. Actually, some of those made it onto season one of \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> because back in the day, we needed material. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I learned the basics doing that and doing some music recording. But as time when on, I learned about where to find sound effects, how to make sound effects and how to layer them in. I had also done a fair amount of Final Cut editing and the process was really the same, except instead of it being visual, it was sonic. As time went by, I just fixed things that I didn’t know were problems until the end, where I at least figured out what the process was for \u003ci>Superego,\u003c/i> and I even feel that it was season 3 before I really got to where I knew what I was doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And actually that’s a lie; I still don’t really know what I’m doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How much time is too much time spent on a podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well I think the only rule for me would be if at some point you stop enjoying it. I don’t mean to belittle it, especially as someone who kind of makes their livelihood from it. I love it and it’s a wonderful thing. But I think it’s so important as to sacrifice parts of your life. If you’re working so hard you’re taking away from other things and not having fun, then it’s probably too long. And if you’ve worked so hard on it, and you’re concentrating on details and losing the big picture, you’ve been working too long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Otherwise, have it as long as you want and enjoy it! There’s no rules and that’s a good thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnbOU-AOVo\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you have one that you’ve invested so much time and energy that you hold it up as a personal achievement?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think in the first episode of season 4 of \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i>, there’s a Shunt McGuppin sketch with Shunt and Neko Case. The recording session for that I think was 20 minutes or something. It was really quick and easy, she was super funny and Jeremy was super funny. But, to make the music after the fact because they were improvising songs… \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I had to first put together a precise edit, and then James Bladon and I sat together on multiple sessions to record the music. Plus we brought Mark (McConville, a member of the \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> team) in to play live pedal steel and we recorded some live guitar. And it was all to these songs that were improvised through acapella singing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Putting it together time-wise and pitch-wise, and then add on top of that a fault in the recording where every few seconds there was a pop or a glitch, so we had to go into ProTools and take that millisecond of a glitch out and blend the two sections together. I think if it was just an ordinary sketch and didn’t have Neko Case — whom we’re all huge fans of — we probably wouldn’t have bothered. Ultimately I felt it was really worth it, not just to have her on the show but for the work she did and the way that it turned out. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Finally, though a little off topic: you are a master of making up words. What’s your favorite word you’ve invented?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Off the top of my head, “diabecities.” I think that goes back to that conservative talk show host, though I don’t know exactly what it was. I did a fake AM radio talk ad and it had me going, “Do you suffer from type I diabecities?” I just like it when people misspeak, so much so that I end up doing it more in my real life and not on purpose. But I’ve learned to embrace it. \u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"He's been making podcasts since 2006 and is now one of the medium's biggest names. His secret to success? Having fun.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705033338,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":27,"wordCount":1622},"headData":{"title":"Matt Gourley on Podcasts' Early Days and Learning Production on the Fly | KQED","description":"He's been making podcasts since 2006 and is now one of the medium's biggest names. His secret to success? Having fun.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Matt Gourley on Podcasts' Early Days and Learning Production on the Fly","datePublished":"2016-08-11T15:00:03.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T04:22:18.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/11912332/matt-gourley-on-podcasts-early-days-and-learning-production-on-the-fly","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>You might remember Matt Gourely’s smiling face from a series of \u003ca href=\"https://www.ispot.tv/topic/actor-actress/LyH/matt-gourley\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Volkswagen commercials\u003c/a> he’s done, or maybe you saw him beyond sloshed on a few episodes of Comedy Central’s \u003ca href=\"http://www.cc.com/video-clips/r7zauz/drunk-history-wernher-von-braun--rocket-scientist--nazi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Drunk History\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. But what many avid podcast listeners know Gourley for is the magic he brings to their “ear holes” (his words).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gourley first made a name for himself in the podcasting world with \u003ca href=\"http://www.gosuperego.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003ci>Superego,\u003c/i>\u003c/a> the sketch comedy podcast he created with his good friend and fellow improviser Jeremy Carter. Launched in 2006, the show brought the pair’s supremely strange and silly brand of humor to the masses, and their fan base grew to include many prominent comedy stars, such as Patton Oswalt, Jason Sudekis, and Paul F. Tompkins, all of whom appeared on the show. (Tompkins even became a full-fledged member of the \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> team.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this year, Gourley and friends put the regular seasons of \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> to bed, as the labor required to create the sonic universe that the podcast inhabited exhausted Gourley. (The crew continues to perform live and record specials episodes for the Howl Network.) But by then Gourley was already doing several other podcasts, including \u003ci>James Bonding,\u003c/i> \u003ci>I Was There Too,\u003c/i> \u003ci>The Andy Daly Podcast Pilot Project\u003c/i> and \u003ci>Pistol Shrimps Radio.\u003c/i> He even helped co-found the short-lived podcast network offshoot of Earwolf, WolfPop. So of course the Earful wanted to talk with him as he is rich with podcast knowledge and experience, and as you’ll see, imaginary words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview was edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You started \u003cem>Superego\u003c/em> in 2006, just two years after the medium was created. What was it like having a podcast back then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it was nice only in that we were doing something completely for ourselves. It wasn’t just that people weren’t listening because they didn’t know the show; they weren’t listening because they didn’t know the medium. To get people to listen, first we had to explain what the show was, and then we had to explain what a podcast was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the beginning, we had some of the sketches up on our crude website and Quicktime audio files, and people were probably listening more that way than anything else.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/4k-IgxNOpCg'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/4k-IgxNOpCg'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>You’re self-taught and \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> had high production values, especially in the end. Were making them a lot of work?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The episodes from Season 1 were very short and actually pretty simple in their production style, so the editing and recording wasn’t taking long — I wasn’t really editing out that much at the time. But the publishing … it was miserable. Trying to get those things published to iTunes back in those days was so difficult. To troubleshoot meant you had to publish something and wait hours for iTunes to catch up. Even if it was working, iTunes wasn’t going to recognize it right away, so there was no real way to check your work. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were many nights where I’d literally stay up the entire night waiting to see if an episode went up, and that was so funny because nobody was really listening or had subscribed yet, so it was this self-imposed deadline I was putting on myself. I don’t know what I was doing. Later on, when we had large listener base and we’d have tech problems, I wasn’t that concerned and would just go to bed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The production work became more and more as the seasons went on, when I felt like the quality needed to be better. But the \u003cem>Star Wars\u003c/em> “Brown Squadron” sketches, because there was so much going on sonically and basically every line was a joke; every line was a reference to what was going on in that world, usually something to do with a laser blaster or or an explosion or a fly by. I just had so many tracks on these sketches and eventually they became too complicated, which is why we couldn’t sustain the podcast. It was a natural progression and I don’t mind that it went that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was also a “Swampbuckler’s Stunts” sketch that had so many levels and sound effects — usually sketches with a lot of action had a lot of sound effects. There were labors of love because I love \u003ci>Star Wars\u003c/i> and I love theme park stunt shows. For me, when I was producing those sketches, I wasn’t a saying, “it has to be good;” I was just enjoying the act of creating an environment and forgetting that it was a product. I was so enamored with a theme park stunt show for good and bad reasons, and when I listened back to it, it reminded me of my childhood.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/UvrLaB8YPHE'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/UvrLaB8YPHE'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>When you were teaching yourself production, what resources did you use?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It happened so gradually that I don’t think I even knew I was teaching myself. I had done a little audio work prior to \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> on a fake radio show, which was kind of like the \u003ci>Colbert Report\u003c/i> before it existed. It was a fake conservative, Rush Limbaugh-type radio show, and I had put together some pitch examples of it using a digital music recorder that didn’t even have a visual display; it was all done by ear. Actually, some of those made it onto season one of \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> because back in the day, we needed material. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I learned the basics doing that and doing some music recording. But as time when on, I learned about where to find sound effects, how to make sound effects and how to layer them in. I had also done a fair amount of Final Cut editing and the process was really the same, except instead of it being visual, it was sonic. As time went by, I just fixed things that I didn’t know were problems until the end, where I at least figured out what the process was for \u003ci>Superego,\u003c/i> and I even feel that it was season 3 before I really got to where I knew what I was doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And actually that’s a lie; I still don’t really know what I’m doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How much time is too much time spent on a podcast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well I think the only rule for me would be if at some point you stop enjoying it. I don’t mean to belittle it, especially as someone who kind of makes their livelihood from it. I love it and it’s a wonderful thing. But I think it’s so important as to sacrifice parts of your life. If you’re working so hard you’re taking away from other things and not having fun, then it’s probably too long. And if you’ve worked so hard on it, and you’re concentrating on details and losing the big picture, you’ve been working too long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Otherwise, have it as long as you want and enjoy it! There’s no rules and that’s a good thing.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/9BnbOU-AOVo'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/9BnbOU-AOVo'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>Do you have one that you’ve invested so much time and energy that you hold it up as a personal achievement?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think in the first episode of season 4 of \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i>, there’s a Shunt McGuppin sketch with Shunt and Neko Case. The recording session for that I think was 20 minutes or something. It was really quick and easy, she was super funny and Jeremy was super funny. But, to make the music after the fact because they were improvising songs… \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I had to first put together a precise edit, and then James Bladon and I sat together on multiple sessions to record the music. Plus we brought Mark (McConville, a member of the \u003ci>Superego\u003c/i> team) in to play live pedal steel and we recorded some live guitar. And it was all to these songs that were improvised through acapella singing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Putting it together time-wise and pitch-wise, and then add on top of that a fault in the recording where every few seconds there was a pop or a glitch, so we had to go into ProTools and take that millisecond of a glitch out and blend the two sections together. I think if it was just an ordinary sketch and didn’t have Neko Case — whom we’re all huge fans of — we probably wouldn’t have bothered. Ultimately I felt it was really worth it, not just to have her on the show but for the work she did and the way that it turned out. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Finally, though a little off topic: you are a master of making up words. What’s your favorite word you’ve invented?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Off the top of my head, “diabecities.” I think that goes back to that conservative talk show host, though I don’t know exactly what it was. I did a fake AM radio talk ad and it had me going, “Do you suffer from type I diabecities?” I just like it when people misspeak, so much so that I end up doing it more in my real life and not on purpose. But I’ve learned to embrace it. \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/11912332/matt-gourley-on-podcasts-early-days-and-learning-production-on-the-fly","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_11912487","label":"arts_1029"},"arts_11487954":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_11487954","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"11487954","score":null,"sort":[1460577607000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"serials-julie-snyder-on-storytelling-the-military-and-amateur-sleuths","title":"Serial's Julie Snyder on Storytelling, the Military and Amateur Sleuths","publishDate":1460577607,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Serial’s Julie Snyder on Storytelling, the Military and Amateur Sleuths | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":1029,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>It’s a poorly kept secret that behind the media’s most influential innovators are almost-hidden partners — whose contributions are just as important as those who receive all the attention. For example, behind Walt Disney was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ub_Iwerks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ubbe Iwerks\u003c/a>; assisting Steve Jobs in realizing his vision at Apple was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Jonathan Ive;\u003c/a> and helping Sarah Koenig revolutionize podcasting with \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> is her producer Julie Snyder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”rYiYMnePTgXlwk44OCtuY0Z28fkFBePD”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When we spoke with \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2016/03/07/sarah-koenig-on-fame-reporting-and-the-overwhelming-pace-of-serial/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Koenig earlier this year\u003c/a>, she was clear to credit Snyder with having the idea to make \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> a podcast. In \u003ca href=\"http://www.peabodyawards.com/stories/story/interview-with-serial-co-creators-sarah-koenig-and-julie-snyder\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">other interviews\u003c/a>, Snyder admitted to being the one who first learned about Adnan Syed, who was convicted of killing his ex-girlfriend in 1999 and whose story became the focus of the first season of \u003ci>Serial,\u003c/i> the most \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/nov/18/serial-podcast-itunes-apple-downloads-streams\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">popular podcast in the medium’s history\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Talking with Snyder, it’s obvious why she is so important to the podcast. While Koenig makes the decision to create a podcast sound like one guided by the fear of failure — she told us that she liked the idea “\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2016/03/07/sarah-koenig-on-fame-reporting-and-the-overwhelming-pace-of-serial/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">because no one will notice if it’s bad\u003c/a>” — Snyder saw the potential for the medium in terms of experimenting with longform storytelling. And now that she’s accomplished so much with the podcast, having won a Peabody on top of creating such a popular show, we decided to call her up to chat about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11488332\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11488332\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Julie Snyder and Ira Glass make their pitch to advertisers\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-960x540.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP.jpg 1166w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Julie Snyder and Ira Glass make their pitch to advertisers \u003ccite>(Photo: Mattew Septimus/NPR)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah credits you with the idea of starting a podcast. What made you want to work in the medium?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First of all, it seemed possible that you could actually get a fair amount of listeners. There was a period of time where the technology was there and people were podcasting, but it was really hard to access podcasts and not that many people were listening to them. But by the time we were starting, it seemed like there was a big enough audience for us in “Podcast Land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the main thing that I thought really made it easy was that for a show on public radio, there’s a logistical process. First you have to have a distributor who provides it to public radio stations. Then there is the fact that you need to fit into broadcast schedules, and you need to be weekly — consistently weekly — for a whole year. Those kinds of restrictions on broadcasts meant for us — there was only me and Sarah — that we weren’t going to be able to put on a production quite like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We didn’t have enough money, we didn’t have a big enough staff, we weren’t going to be able to fulfill the professional needs of broadcast radio. But if we made a podcast where we weren’t going to have to service all that stuff, we could do it with just the two of us and with a slim budget. And if it’s not that good, then we’d just stop. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you regret about the explosion of \u003ci>Serial’s\u003c/i> popularity?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are certain things that I wish didn’t happen. I wish people didn’t do the armchair detective stuff: publicly speculating on people committing crimes or their characters, their backgrounds and revealing private information about them. That was sort of unsavory and I wish there was some way we could’ve controlled that. That was really shocking for us and it was disheartening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To an extent, this is the price of when you get this many people involved, but I’m not quite sure we’re supposed to be okay with that. I don’t know, I just thought I saw people behaving irresponsibly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Is that one of the reasons you went away from pursuing another true crime story for the second season of \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">I wish people didn’t do the armchair detective stuff… That was sort of unsavory and I wish there was some way we could’ve controlled that\u003cbr>\n\u003ccite>Julie Snyder, \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> Producer\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>No. \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> is all about following interesting stories where we feel like they are going to take us to surprising places and we’re going to usually learn something complicated — something that is a lot more ambiguous and a lot more nuanced then what most people take at face value. That, for us, is the definition of \u003ci>Serial.\u003c/i> We never saw \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> as true crime; I forgot there even was a true crime genre and neither of us thought of the story that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are entire cable networks that are devoted true crime stories and once they hit on their successful format, they will keep going back to it. That isn’t our interest at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What have you learned about the military from covering \u003ca href=\"https://serialpodcast.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Bowe Bergdahl’s story\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The main thing I’ve learned — and it seems obvious but I didn’t understand it until I started working on this story — is that the military, and even the Army and the administration, these huge institutions that are reduced to monoliths, are all being run by people. There is such a diversity of views in the Army and also within the government, and within a platoon. People see things differently and they experience them differently, and that’s what affects their choices. There isn’t this monolithic “The Army thinks this way,” or “The generals know this.” It’s really individualistic and there’s a lot of nuance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11488333\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11488333\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"'Serial' producer Julie Snyder stands to the right of Sarah Koenig (center) as she poses with her Peabody award \" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-960x540.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP.jpg 983w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Serial’ producer Julie Snyder stands to the right of Sarah Koenig (center) as she poses with her Peabody award \u003ccite>(Photo: Jemal Countess/Getty Images for Peabody Awards)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I think it’s because these institutions are so powerful you start to feel like there’s a grand plan and a puppet-mastery going on. And breaking it down in a story like this, where we’re just trying to talk to as many individuals who were affected by this story as possible, it becomes clear that the world of this story is so small and specific. With Bowe Bergdahl, he has such a specific and idiosyncratic way of looking at the world — not at all representative of other people — and yet because he involved himself in this really unique incident, the repercussions of it were huge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I also really loved that in this story, we could move from the small and personal, to the big and global.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yeah, and it’s easy to forget how huge this story is. I sometimes worry that Americans suffer from war coverage fatigue, even though it’s still this important story. You not only demonstrate the importance of what’s going on in Afghanistan, you’ve succeeded in humanizing Bowe; I feel I understand him as a person.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s the cool thing about audio and it’s the strength of the medium: you hear people speaking for themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you hope people do with podcasting as a medium?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I would like people to continue experimenting. It’s a very experimental medium and I don’t think we know are the outer bounds of the form yet. It’s exciting to try different things, especially when they service the story or the format.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"While Sarah Koenig is the face of 'Serial,' her producer Julie Snyder is equally influential on the podcast's direction.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705044593,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":24,"wordCount":1273},"headData":{"title":"Serial's Julie Snyder on Storytelling, the Military and Amateur Sleuths | KQED","description":"While Sarah Koenig is the face of 'Serial,' her producer Julie Snyder is equally influential on the podcast's direction.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Serial's Julie Snyder on Storytelling, the Military and Amateur Sleuths","datePublished":"2016-04-13T20:00:07.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-12T07:29:53.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"path":"/arts/11487954/serials-julie-snyder-on-storytelling-the-military-and-amateur-sleuths","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>It’s a poorly kept secret that behind the media’s most influential innovators are almost-hidden partners — whose contributions are just as important as those who receive all the attention. For example, behind Walt Disney was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ub_Iwerks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ubbe Iwerks\u003c/a>; assisting Steve Jobs in realizing his vision at Apple was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Jonathan Ive;\u003c/a> and helping Sarah Koenig revolutionize podcasting with \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> is her producer Julie Snyder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When we spoke with \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2016/03/07/sarah-koenig-on-fame-reporting-and-the-overwhelming-pace-of-serial/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Koenig earlier this year\u003c/a>, she was clear to credit Snyder with having the idea to make \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> a podcast. In \u003ca href=\"http://www.peabodyawards.com/stories/story/interview-with-serial-co-creators-sarah-koenig-and-julie-snyder\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">other interviews\u003c/a>, Snyder admitted to being the one who first learned about Adnan Syed, who was convicted of killing his ex-girlfriend in 1999 and whose story became the focus of the first season of \u003ci>Serial,\u003c/i> the most \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/nov/18/serial-podcast-itunes-apple-downloads-streams\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">popular podcast in the medium’s history\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Talking with Snyder, it’s obvious why she is so important to the podcast. While Koenig makes the decision to create a podcast sound like one guided by the fear of failure — she told us that she liked the idea “\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2016/03/07/sarah-koenig-on-fame-reporting-and-the-overwhelming-pace-of-serial/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">because no one will notice if it’s bad\u003c/a>” — Snyder saw the potential for the medium in terms of experimenting with longform storytelling. And now that she’s accomplished so much with the podcast, having won a Peabody on top of creating such a popular show, we decided to call her up to chat about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11488332\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11488332\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Julie Snyder and Ira Glass make their pitch to advertisers\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP-960x540.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/NPR_043015_0241-Ira-Julie-CROP.jpg 1166w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Julie Snyder and Ira Glass make their pitch to advertisers \u003ccite>(Photo: Mattew Septimus/NPR)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah credits you with the idea of starting a podcast. What made you want to work in the medium?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First of all, it seemed possible that you could actually get a fair amount of listeners. There was a period of time where the technology was there and people were podcasting, but it was really hard to access podcasts and not that many people were listening to them. But by the time we were starting, it seemed like there was a big enough audience for us in “Podcast Land.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the main thing that I thought really made it easy was that for a show on public radio, there’s a logistical process. First you have to have a distributor who provides it to public radio stations. Then there is the fact that you need to fit into broadcast schedules, and you need to be weekly — consistently weekly — for a whole year. Those kinds of restrictions on broadcasts meant for us — there was only me and Sarah — that we weren’t going to be able to put on a production quite like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We didn’t have enough money, we didn’t have a big enough staff, we weren’t going to be able to fulfill the professional needs of broadcast radio. But if we made a podcast where we weren’t going to have to service all that stuff, we could do it with just the two of us and with a slim budget. And if it’s not that good, then we’d just stop. [Laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you regret about the explosion of \u003ci>Serial’s\u003c/i> popularity?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are certain things that I wish didn’t happen. I wish people didn’t do the armchair detective stuff: publicly speculating on people committing crimes or their characters, their backgrounds and revealing private information about them. That was sort of unsavory and I wish there was some way we could’ve controlled that. That was really shocking for us and it was disheartening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To an extent, this is the price of when you get this many people involved, but I’m not quite sure we’re supposed to be okay with that. I don’t know, I just thought I saw people behaving irresponsibly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Is that one of the reasons you went away from pursuing another true crime story for the second season of \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">I wish people didn’t do the armchair detective stuff… That was sort of unsavory and I wish there was some way we could’ve controlled that\u003cbr>\n\u003ccite>Julie Snyder, \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> Producer\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>No. \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> is all about following interesting stories where we feel like they are going to take us to surprising places and we’re going to usually learn something complicated — something that is a lot more ambiguous and a lot more nuanced then what most people take at face value. That, for us, is the definition of \u003ci>Serial.\u003c/i> We never saw \u003ci>Serial\u003c/i> as true crime; I forgot there even was a true crime genre and neither of us thought of the story that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are entire cable networks that are devoted true crime stories and once they hit on their successful format, they will keep going back to it. That isn’t our interest at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What have you learned about the military from covering \u003ca href=\"https://serialpodcast.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Bowe Bergdahl’s story\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The main thing I’ve learned — and it seems obvious but I didn’t understand it until I started working on this story — is that the military, and even the Army and the administration, these huge institutions that are reduced to monoliths, are all being run by people. There is such a diversity of views in the Army and also within the government, and within a platoon. People see things differently and they experience them differently, and that’s what affects their choices. There isn’t this monolithic “The Army thinks this way,” or “The generals know this.” It’s really individualistic and there’s a lot of nuance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11488333\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11488333\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"'Serial' producer Julie Snyder stands to the right of Sarah Koenig (center) as she poses with her Peabody award \" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP-960x540.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/04/Serial-PeabodysCROP.jpg 983w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Serial’ producer Julie Snyder stands to the right of Sarah Koenig (center) as she poses with her Peabody award \u003ccite>(Photo: Jemal Countess/Getty Images for Peabody Awards)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I think it’s because these institutions are so powerful you start to feel like there’s a grand plan and a puppet-mastery going on. And breaking it down in a story like this, where we’re just trying to talk to as many individuals who were affected by this story as possible, it becomes clear that the world of this story is so small and specific. With Bowe Bergdahl, he has such a specific and idiosyncratic way of looking at the world — not at all representative of other people — and yet because he involved himself in this really unique incident, the repercussions of it were huge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I also really loved that in this story, we could move from the small and personal, to the big and global.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yeah, and it’s easy to forget how huge this story is. I sometimes worry that Americans suffer from war coverage fatigue, even though it’s still this important story. You not only demonstrate the importance of what’s going on in Afghanistan, you’ve succeeded in humanizing Bowe; I feel I understand him as a person.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s the cool thing about audio and it’s the strength of the medium: you hear people speaking for themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you hope people do with podcasting as a medium?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I would like people to continue experimenting. It’s a very experimental medium and I don’t think we know are the outer bounds of the form yet. It’s exciting to try different things, especially when they service the story or the format.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/11487954/serials-julie-snyder-on-storytelling-the-military-and-amateur-sleuths","authors":["93"],"series":["arts_1029"],"categories":["arts_71","arts_235"],"tags":["arts_1118","arts_596","arts_989"],"featImg":"arts_11488334","label":"arts_1029"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. 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You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />","airtime":"SUN 9pm-10pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"}},"commonwealth-club":{"id":"commonwealth-club","title":"Commonwealth Club of California Podcast","info":"The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. 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