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"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/minakim\">Mina Kim\u003c/a> is host of the statewide hour of KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>; a live, daily, call-in talk show. Through intimate and informative conversations, Mina connects the state’s many residents, and illuminates the issues affecting California and the nation. Before joining \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, Mina was KQED’s evening news anchor, and health reporter for \u003cem>The California Report\u003c/em>. Her award-winning work has included natural disasters in Napa and gun violence in Oakland. At the University of Michigan she studied the intersection of gender, race and class. She was a first grade teacher through Teach For America, and ran a mentorship program for students aspiring to be the first in their families to go to college. She grew up in St. John’s, Newfoundland.",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, April 2 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>President Trump signed an executive order on Tuesday that aims to place federal restrictions on voting by mail ahead of this fall’s midterm elections. It comes as Congress considers legislation that could dramatically change voting in the U.S. and the Supreme Court appears ready to back additional vote-by-mail limits. We’ll talk with elections experts about potential challenges to the new executive order and how California is navigating the potential changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"159\" data-end=\"408\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"159\" data-end=\"177\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem data-start=\"186\" data-end=\"193\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Guy Marzorati, in for Mina Kim. Nearly 90% of California voters cast a vote-by-mail ballot this past November, but the system faces new threats from the White House and from some local officials in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"410\" data-end=\"724\">In Washington, President Donald Trump is continuing his crusade against vote-by-mail, driven by his unfounded claims of, quote, “massive cheating” with mail ballots. This week, Trump directed the U.S. Postal Service to oversee the administration of vote-by-mail—an executive order already drawing legal challenges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"726\" data-end=\"931\">We’re going to dive into all of this this hour. Joining us first is California’s top elections official, Dr. Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State. Secretary Weber, thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"933\" data-end=\"1151\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"933\" data-end=\"951\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Thank you for the invitation. I’m always happy to talk with folks and let them know what’s going on from our point of view—and the threats being levied against opportunities for our citizens to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1153\" data-end=\"1406\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1153\" data-end=\"1171\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Let’s start with that executive order Trump issued this week. It directs DHS and the states to create lists of eligible voters, and then essentially have the Postal Service cross-check that list before delivering or accepting ballots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1408\" data-end=\"1547\">So this new responsibility for USPS—getting involved in elections—as I mentioned, is already facing legal challenges. What’s your response?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1549\" data-end=\"1770\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1549\" data-end=\"1567\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Well, there will be lots of legal challenges. There have already been efforts to obtain all of our data—names, Social Security numbers, and so forth. For what purpose? Who knows—but we can only imagine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1772\" data-end=\"2053\">We fought that battle, and we won. It was declared they could not simply take all of our voter data. Voting resides with the states. So after winning that, we now see continued attempts to go around it—to challenge vote-by-mail, even though the president himself has voted by mail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2055\" data-end=\"2357\">We face a constant battle. Every time we make progress, it’s challenged again with something like this—now involving the Postal Service and the Department of Homeland Security in ways they’re not qualified for. It creates confusion and potentially forces people to rely on federal systems just to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2359\" data-end=\"2638\">These efforts are really attacks on systems that have been proven to work. If we were having a genuine conversation about improving voting, that would be one thing. But instead, we see continued attacks with no real solutions—often proposed by people who don’t work in elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2640\" data-end=\"2930\">It’s frustrating and disappointing, especially as we’re preparing for upcoming elections, trying to get people ready to vote in June and November—without any evidence that the system is corrupt. These claims have been made for years with no proof. I think citizens should be demanding more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2932\" data-end=\"3114\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2932\" data-end=\"2950\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> As you mentioned, all of this is happening as we head toward an election in California—we’re about a month away from ballots being mailed out for the June primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3116\" data-end=\"3322\">There’s also a case before the Supreme Court challenging the practice of counting ballots that are cast by Election Day but arrive afterward. In California, there’s a seven-day window for ballots to arrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3324\" data-end=\"3466\">If the Court limits that practice or requires ballots to arrive by Election Day, do you see that affecting the vote count in the June primary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3468\" data-end=\"3652\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3468\" data-end=\"3486\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> It might—we’d have to see when such a decision takes effect. Any effort to change the rules around ballots that are cast on time but arrive later would be difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3654\" data-end=\"3816\">But we’ve had to pivot before. When changes happen, we work with our networks—community groups and organizations—to get the word out about what voters need to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3818\" data-end=\"4029\">I tell people: when you see someone fighting this hard to take something away from you, it must be important. Sometimes we take voting for granted. But clearly, it matters—otherwise, it wouldn’t be under attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4031\" data-end=\"4243\">As an African American, I know how hard people fought for the right to vote—my parents, my grandparents, people who were denied that right for generations. Women, too, had to fight for it. So yes, it’s important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4245\" data-end=\"4421\">No matter what changes come, we will do everything we can to help people vote and make sure their ballots are counted. This is a powerful right that empowers every Californian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4423\" data-end=\"4664\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4423\" data-end=\"4441\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> A lot of these actions are being driven by false claims, whether from the White House or Republicans in Congress. I want to play you some recent comments from House Speaker Mike Johnson and get your response. Let’s listen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4666\" data-end=\"4959\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4666\" data-end=\"4690\">Mike Johnson (clip):\u003c/strong> \u003cem>In some states like California, they hold elections open for weeks after Election Day. That bothers a lot of people. We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on Election Day, and as new batches of ballots came in, their leads just magically disappeared.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4961\" data-end=\"5072\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4961\" data-end=\"4979\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> When you hear a comment like that—about leads “magically” disappearing—what’s your response?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5074\" data-end=\"5209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5074\" data-end=\"5092\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> I find it insulting. It suggests that we’re not doing our jobs—that ballots are just being manipulated or discarded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5211\" data-end=\"5541\">In reality, we work to count every ballot in a state as large as California. I’d remind Speaker Johnson that states like Louisiana, where he’s from, have their own difficult history with voting access—especially for Black and low-income voters. I was born in Arkansas, my husband in Louisiana—we know what that history looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5543\" data-end=\"5763\">People should look at their own record before criticizing others. And most importantly, they should provide data. Every time I hear claims like this, I ask: where is the evidence? Where are the court cases proving fraud?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5765\" data-end=\"5901\">There isn’t any. These are false narratives that undermine confidence in elections. It’s concerning to hear them repeated without basis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5903\" data-end=\"6096\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5903\" data-end=\"5921\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Setting aside false claims of fraud, some people point out that in close races, leads can change as ballots are counted. Does it take too long to count ballots in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6098\" data-end=\"6256\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6098\" data-end=\"6116\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Of course we’d like to count faster—but we also have to count correctly. California has created laws to expand access, and that takes time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6258\" data-end=\"6446\">For example, we “cure” ballots. If there’s a missing or mismatched signature, we don’t discard the ballot—we track down the voter and give them a chance to fix it. That process takes time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6448\" data-end=\"6546\">People often tell me: “Count them faster—but make sure you count them all.” And that’s what we do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6548\" data-end=\"6770\">In most races, the outcome is clear quickly. It’s only in very tight contests—maybe one or two districts—where the final count takes longer. And interestingly, concerns about timing tend to arise only in those close races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6772\" data-end=\"6898\">When one side is winning, they’re happy. When they’re losing, they want the count to stop. But our job is to count every vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6900\" data-end=\"7067\">We have up to 30 days to certify results, but most outcomes are known much sooner. The bottom line is that close races take time, and that’s part of ensuring accuracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7069\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7069\" data-end=\"7087\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> That was California Secretary of State Dr. Shirley Weber. Thank you so much for your time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7180\" data-end=\"7294\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7180\" data-end=\"7198\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Thank you for having me. I hope people continue to stay informed—and most importantly, to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7296\" data-end=\"7460\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7296\" data-end=\"7314\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Thank you. We’re going to take a break. When we come back, we’ll dive further into the headwinds facing vote-by-mail in California. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, April 2 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>President Trump signed an executive order on Tuesday that aims to place federal restrictions on voting by mail ahead of this fall’s midterm elections. It comes as Congress considers legislation that could dramatically change voting in the U.S. and the Supreme Court appears ready to back additional vote-by-mail limits. We’ll talk with elections experts about potential challenges to the new executive order and how California is navigating the potential changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"159\" data-end=\"408\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"159\" data-end=\"177\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> This is \u003cem data-start=\"186\" data-end=\"193\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Guy Marzorati, in for Mina Kim. Nearly 90% of California voters cast a vote-by-mail ballot this past November, but the system faces new threats from the White House and from some local officials in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"410\" data-end=\"724\">In Washington, President Donald Trump is continuing his crusade against vote-by-mail, driven by his unfounded claims of, quote, “massive cheating” with mail ballots. This week, Trump directed the U.S. Postal Service to oversee the administration of vote-by-mail—an executive order already drawing legal challenges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"726\" data-end=\"931\">We’re going to dive into all of this this hour. Joining us first is California’s top elections official, Dr. Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State. Secretary Weber, thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"933\" data-end=\"1151\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"933\" data-end=\"951\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Thank you for the invitation. I’m always happy to talk with folks and let them know what’s going on from our point of view—and the threats being levied against opportunities for our citizens to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1153\" data-end=\"1406\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1153\" data-end=\"1171\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Let’s start with that executive order Trump issued this week. It directs DHS and the states to create lists of eligible voters, and then essentially have the Postal Service cross-check that list before delivering or accepting ballots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1408\" data-end=\"1547\">So this new responsibility for USPS—getting involved in elections—as I mentioned, is already facing legal challenges. What’s your response?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1549\" data-end=\"1770\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1549\" data-end=\"1567\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Well, there will be lots of legal challenges. There have already been efforts to obtain all of our data—names, Social Security numbers, and so forth. For what purpose? Who knows—but we can only imagine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1772\" data-end=\"2053\">We fought that battle, and we won. It was declared they could not simply take all of our voter data. Voting resides with the states. So after winning that, we now see continued attempts to go around it—to challenge vote-by-mail, even though the president himself has voted by mail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2055\" data-end=\"2357\">We face a constant battle. Every time we make progress, it’s challenged again with something like this—now involving the Postal Service and the Department of Homeland Security in ways they’re not qualified for. It creates confusion and potentially forces people to rely on federal systems just to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2359\" data-end=\"2638\">These efforts are really attacks on systems that have been proven to work. If we were having a genuine conversation about improving voting, that would be one thing. But instead, we see continued attacks with no real solutions—often proposed by people who don’t work in elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2640\" data-end=\"2930\">It’s frustrating and disappointing, especially as we’re preparing for upcoming elections, trying to get people ready to vote in June and November—without any evidence that the system is corrupt. These claims have been made for years with no proof. I think citizens should be demanding more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2932\" data-end=\"3114\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2932\" data-end=\"2950\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> As you mentioned, all of this is happening as we head toward an election in California—we’re about a month away from ballots being mailed out for the June primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3116\" data-end=\"3322\">There’s also a case before the Supreme Court challenging the practice of counting ballots that are cast by Election Day but arrive afterward. In California, there’s a seven-day window for ballots to arrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3324\" data-end=\"3466\">If the Court limits that practice or requires ballots to arrive by Election Day, do you see that affecting the vote count in the June primary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3468\" data-end=\"3652\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3468\" data-end=\"3486\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> It might—we’d have to see when such a decision takes effect. Any effort to change the rules around ballots that are cast on time but arrive later would be difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3654\" data-end=\"3816\">But we’ve had to pivot before. When changes happen, we work with our networks—community groups and organizations—to get the word out about what voters need to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3818\" data-end=\"4029\">I tell people: when you see someone fighting this hard to take something away from you, it must be important. Sometimes we take voting for granted. But clearly, it matters—otherwise, it wouldn’t be under attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4031\" data-end=\"4243\">As an African American, I know how hard people fought for the right to vote—my parents, my grandparents, people who were denied that right for generations. Women, too, had to fight for it. So yes, it’s important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4245\" data-end=\"4421\">No matter what changes come, we will do everything we can to help people vote and make sure their ballots are counted. This is a powerful right that empowers every Californian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4423\" data-end=\"4664\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4423\" data-end=\"4441\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> A lot of these actions are being driven by false claims, whether from the White House or Republicans in Congress. I want to play you some recent comments from House Speaker Mike Johnson and get your response. Let’s listen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4666\" data-end=\"4959\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4666\" data-end=\"4690\">Mike Johnson (clip):\u003c/strong> \u003cem>In some states like California, they hold elections open for weeks after Election Day. That bothers a lot of people. We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on Election Day, and as new batches of ballots came in, their leads just magically disappeared.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4961\" data-end=\"5072\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4961\" data-end=\"4979\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> When you hear a comment like that—about leads “magically” disappearing—what’s your response?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5074\" data-end=\"5209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5074\" data-end=\"5092\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> I find it insulting. It suggests that we’re not doing our jobs—that ballots are just being manipulated or discarded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5211\" data-end=\"5541\">In reality, we work to count every ballot in a state as large as California. I’d remind Speaker Johnson that states like Louisiana, where he’s from, have their own difficult history with voting access—especially for Black and low-income voters. I was born in Arkansas, my husband in Louisiana—we know what that history looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5543\" data-end=\"5763\">People should look at their own record before criticizing others. And most importantly, they should provide data. Every time I hear claims like this, I ask: where is the evidence? Where are the court cases proving fraud?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5765\" data-end=\"5901\">There isn’t any. These are false narratives that undermine confidence in elections. It’s concerning to hear them repeated without basis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5903\" data-end=\"6096\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5903\" data-end=\"5921\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Setting aside false claims of fraud, some people point out that in close races, leads can change as ballots are counted. Does it take too long to count ballots in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6098\" data-end=\"6256\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6098\" data-end=\"6116\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Of course we’d like to count faster—but we also have to count correctly. California has created laws to expand access, and that takes time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6258\" data-end=\"6446\">For example, we “cure” ballots. If there’s a missing or mismatched signature, we don’t discard the ballot—we track down the voter and give them a chance to fix it. That process takes time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6448\" data-end=\"6546\">People often tell me: “Count them faster—but make sure you count them all.” And that’s what we do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6548\" data-end=\"6770\">In most races, the outcome is clear quickly. It’s only in very tight contests—maybe one or two districts—where the final count takes longer. And interestingly, concerns about timing tend to arise only in those close races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6772\" data-end=\"6898\">When one side is winning, they’re happy. When they’re losing, they want the count to stop. But our job is to count every vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6900\" data-end=\"7067\">We have up to 30 days to certify results, but most outcomes are known much sooner. The bottom line is that close races take time, and that’s part of ensuring accuracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7069\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7069\" data-end=\"7087\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> That was California Secretary of State Dr. Shirley Weber. Thank you so much for your time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7180\" data-end=\"7294\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7180\" data-end=\"7198\">Shirley Weber:\u003c/strong> Thank you for having me. I hope people continue to stay informed—and most importantly, to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7296\" data-end=\"7460\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7296\" data-end=\"7314\">Guy Marzorati:\u003c/strong> Thank you. We’re going to take a break. When we come back, we’ll dive further into the headwinds facing vote-by-mail in California. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, April 2 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2014, San Francisco committed to an effort to end traffic fatalities and severe injuries called “Vision Zero.” But severe injuries from cars have not come anywhere close to the goal of zero. Six pedestrians have been killed in the last couple months in the city. San Francisco has passed a new “Street Safety Act,” but will it work better than the old Vision Zero plan? We’ll talk about what can be done to reduce pedestrian being hit by cars and check in on San Francisco’s progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"169\" data-end=\"671\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"169\" data-end=\"189\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"201\" data-end=\"208\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. If you look at a chart of per capita traffic deaths since the year 2000 for wealthier countries like South Korea, Australia, Canada, the U.K., and the U.S.—pretty much everywhere—you see massive declines from the turn of the millennium until 2014. But after that, something major changes. While those other countries have seen traffic deaths continue to go down, our traffic fatalities start to go up, so that by now, we’re a clear outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"673\" data-end=\"1114\">That’s a national problem, but you might imagine San Francisco would be better. After all, the city committed to Vision Zero back in 2014, a concept that originated in Sweden that set out the goal to end traffic deaths. And yes, San Francisco’s per capita traffic fatalities are some of the lowest in the nation. But if you look at fatalities per vehicle mile traveled, San Francisco becomes the worst performer out of the Bay Area counties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1116\" data-end=\"1435\">In particular, there’s been a spate of pedestrians killed by drivers over the last couple of months. So we’ve made progress, but there are still places to go to make our roads safer. Here to tell us about them, we’re joined by Jodie Medeiros, who is executive director of the advocacy group Walk San Francisco. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1437\" data-end=\"1498\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1437\" data-end=\"1456\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Alexis. We’re glad to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1500\" data-end=\"1678\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1500\" data-end=\"1520\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Great to have you. We’re also joined by Viktoriya Wise, who’s director of the streets division at the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1680\" data-end=\"1730\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1680\" data-end=\"1699\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> Good morning. Good to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1732\" data-end=\"1877\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1732\" data-end=\"1752\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> So let’s start with you, Jodie. A pedestrian was killed last Friday—that’s six deaths in six weeks, we think. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1879\" data-end=\"2217\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1879\" data-end=\"1898\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> At Walk San Francisco, we really believe that nobody should risk their life just walking down the street. But in San Francisco, as you mentioned, three people are hit every day. And behind every serious crash—whether fatal or not—are families whose lives have changed forever. These are incidents that are preventable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2219\" data-end=\"2600\">With six pedestrians killed in six weeks, including a child, that’s really a call for action. Annually, pedestrians make up over half of traffic deaths. These are people simply walking, and they’re bearing the biggest burden of the city not managing this like the crisis that it is. That’s why Walk San Francisco exists—we center our work on the people impacted by traffic crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2602\" data-end=\"2934\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2602\" data-end=\"2622\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> When you look at this, Viktoriya, it’s hard to get any statistic in a large city down to zero. But it’s obvious that pedestrian deaths are still happening a lot right now. Where do you start? Do you go to a map of the most dangerous places and say, “Okay, these are where we need to go”? How do you approach it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2936\" data-end=\"3284\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2936\" data-end=\"2955\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> First of all, let me just say it’s been a devastating six weeks or so. It’s really hard to have people die on the streets of San Francisco. And where I start is with the philosophy behind it—thinking about our culture and the fact that we’ve come to accept pedestrian fatalities and severe injuries as a kind of cost of driving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3286\" data-end=\"3633\">Our goal in San Francisco, and in many cities, is to reduce and ultimately eliminate all fatalities. I don’t want any of us—or any of the listeners—to get a phone call saying your family member, your spouse, your child has been in a severe crash or, God forbid, has died. All of our work is centered around preventing and minimizing these crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3635\" data-end=\"3962\">From a high-level perspective, we want to reduce those numbers. And while we can talk about progress and data, where we do start is with data. Last week, the city published a high-injury network map. That’s 13% of streets where 78% of fatalities and severe injuries happen. So we know the dangerous streets we need to focus on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3964\" data-end=\"4195\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3964\" data-end=\"3984\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’re talking about San Francisco’s efforts to improve pedestrian safety. We’re joined by Viktoriya Wise, director of the streets division at SFMTA, and Jodie Medeiros, executive director of Walk San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4197\" data-end=\"4473\">We’re talking about streets that feel unsafe or could use traffic calming or other measures. Is there one in your neighborhood? You can give us a call: 866-733-6786. What’s happening there, and what would you like to see done? Again, 866-733-6786. The email is \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"4458\" data-end=\"4472\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4475\" data-end=\"4643\">Viktoriya, I want to come back to Vision Zero. It was adopted in 2014. Do you think it helped the city make progress? And was it effective to set such a difficult goal?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4645\" data-end=\"4932\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4645\" data-end=\"4664\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> I think it absolutely helped the city make progress, and it was effective. First of all, we’ve had a lot of learnings from Vision Zero. We started out focusing on engineering solutions, enforcement, and education campaigns, but we’ve learned a lot in the last decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4934\" data-end=\"5430\">In particular, we’ve learned that people make mistakes—that’s inevitable. So how do we build systems that mitigate the impact of those mistakes? Over the last decade, we’ve adopted what’s called the Safe Systems approach. We look at the systems we put together: roadway design, post-crash care, vehicle design, and human behavior—like not driving drunk, wearing a helmet, or not riding scooters on sidewalks. And of course, speed, which is the number one factor in fatalities and severe injuries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5432\" data-end=\"5789\">Bringing all of that together is how we’re approaching the next decade. It’s now a nationally recognized best practice. In San Francisco, we’re moving in that direction collectively—with policymakers, the Board of Supervisors under the leadership of Myrna Melgar, and our mayor, who issued an executive directive last December for a Safe Streets initiative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5791\" data-end=\"6006\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5791\" data-end=\"5811\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Jodie, from your perspective, some of the things Viktoriya mentioned—like redesigning cars—are difficult for a city to accomplish. How would you prioritize making the city safer for pedestrians?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6008\" data-end=\"6215\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6008\" data-end=\"6027\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> There are two things the city has done recently that point to real progress. I agree with Viktoriya—Vision Zero is a work in progress. Now that we know what works, we need to double down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6217\" data-end=\"6470\">In 2019, SFMTA started an innovative “quick-build” program. This is about redesigning streets that were built for vehicles so they work better for people walking, biking, and so on—using lower-cost materials to test designs before making them permanent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6472\" data-end=\"6718\">In the Tenderloin, over six years, 100% of streets received these treatments, and pedestrian-involved collisions have been reduced by 30 to 50%. That’s real progress. In 2019, there were four pedestrian fatalities there; in 2025, there were zero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6720\" data-end=\"6948\">The second thing is speed cameras. Walk San Francisco and our partners at Families for Safe Streets spent ten years pushing for legislation in Sacramento. We finally passed it so that six cities in California can implement them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6950\" data-end=\"6992\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6950\" data-end=\"6970\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Why was that so hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6994\" data-end=\"7255\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6994\" data-end=\"7013\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> Legislators didn’t initially see it as a solution. But we knew from other cities—and from data—that it works. We had to refine the legislation over time. Now California has one of the most equitable and fair speed camera laws in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7257\" data-end=\"7457\">Unfortunately, we’re limited in how many cameras we can have—San Francisco has 33, Oakland has 18, and Los Angeles will have up to 250, based on population. But they’re working—speeds are coming down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7459\" data-end=\"7515\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7459\" data-end=\"7479\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> How do you measure that, Viktoriya?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7517\" data-end=\"7891\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7517\" data-end=\"7536\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> We track data from warnings and citations, and we also collect field data—like from those tubes you drive over on the road. We’ve seen a 78% reduction in speeding. That’s about 40,000 people reducing their speed. And as I mentioned, that’s critical—because it’s physics. The faster you go, the more likely a pedestrian will be severely injured or killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7893\" data-end=\"8097\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7893\" data-end=\"7913\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Right—it’s mass times velocity. And we’ve got larger vehicles now—trucks and SUVs that sit higher, which people may like individually, but collectively they’re more deadly in crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8099\" data-end=\"8132\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8099\" data-end=\"8118\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> That’s right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8134\" data-end=\"8465\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8134\" data-end=\"8154\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ve got a comment from a listener. Carlos writes: “Perhaps the most important variable in pedestrian safety is momentum. The faster the traffic, the deadlier the incidents. Less congestion—like during the government shutdown—could lead to higher speeds. Could that explain the recent increase in fatalities?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8467\" data-end=\"8524\">I’m guessing you wouldn’t attribute it to just one cause?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8526\" data-end=\"8767\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8526\" data-end=\"8545\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> That’s right. It’s a combination of factors. But the listener is correct to point out what we saw during COVID—people drove faster and got used to that behavior. Over time, we have to look at trends and dig into the data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8769\" data-end=\"8956\">We’re working with the Department of Public Health using the new high-injury network map to understand not just where crashes happen, but why—what time of day, what conditions, and so on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8958\" data-end=\"9114\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8958\" data-end=\"8978\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s SFMTA’s Viktoriya Wise. We’re also joined by Walk San Francisco’s Jodie Medeiros. We’ll be back with more right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, April 2 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2014, San Francisco committed to an effort to end traffic fatalities and severe injuries called “Vision Zero.” But severe injuries from cars have not come anywhere close to the goal of zero. Six pedestrians have been killed in the last couple months in the city. San Francisco has passed a new “Street Safety Act,” but will it work better than the old Vision Zero plan? We’ll talk about what can be done to reduce pedestrian being hit by cars and check in on San Francisco’s progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"169\" data-end=\"671\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"169\" data-end=\"189\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"201\" data-end=\"208\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. If you look at a chart of per capita traffic deaths since the year 2000 for wealthier countries like South Korea, Australia, Canada, the U.K., and the U.S.—pretty much everywhere—you see massive declines from the turn of the millennium until 2014. But after that, something major changes. While those other countries have seen traffic deaths continue to go down, our traffic fatalities start to go up, so that by now, we’re a clear outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"673\" data-end=\"1114\">That’s a national problem, but you might imagine San Francisco would be better. After all, the city committed to Vision Zero back in 2014, a concept that originated in Sweden that set out the goal to end traffic deaths. And yes, San Francisco’s per capita traffic fatalities are some of the lowest in the nation. But if you look at fatalities per vehicle mile traveled, San Francisco becomes the worst performer out of the Bay Area counties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1116\" data-end=\"1435\">In particular, there’s been a spate of pedestrians killed by drivers over the last couple of months. So we’ve made progress, but there are still places to go to make our roads safer. Here to tell us about them, we’re joined by Jodie Medeiros, who is executive director of the advocacy group Walk San Francisco. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1437\" data-end=\"1498\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1437\" data-end=\"1456\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Alexis. We’re glad to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1500\" data-end=\"1678\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1500\" data-end=\"1520\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Great to have you. We’re also joined by Viktoriya Wise, who’s director of the streets division at the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1680\" data-end=\"1730\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1680\" data-end=\"1699\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> Good morning. Good to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1732\" data-end=\"1877\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1732\" data-end=\"1752\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> So let’s start with you, Jodie. A pedestrian was killed last Friday—that’s six deaths in six weeks, we think. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1879\" data-end=\"2217\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1879\" data-end=\"1898\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> At Walk San Francisco, we really believe that nobody should risk their life just walking down the street. But in San Francisco, as you mentioned, three people are hit every day. And behind every serious crash—whether fatal or not—are families whose lives have changed forever. These are incidents that are preventable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2219\" data-end=\"2600\">With six pedestrians killed in six weeks, including a child, that’s really a call for action. Annually, pedestrians make up over half of traffic deaths. These are people simply walking, and they’re bearing the biggest burden of the city not managing this like the crisis that it is. That’s why Walk San Francisco exists—we center our work on the people impacted by traffic crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2602\" data-end=\"2934\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2602\" data-end=\"2622\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> When you look at this, Viktoriya, it’s hard to get any statistic in a large city down to zero. But it’s obvious that pedestrian deaths are still happening a lot right now. Where do you start? Do you go to a map of the most dangerous places and say, “Okay, these are where we need to go”? How do you approach it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2936\" data-end=\"3284\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2936\" data-end=\"2955\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> First of all, let me just say it’s been a devastating six weeks or so. It’s really hard to have people die on the streets of San Francisco. And where I start is with the philosophy behind it—thinking about our culture and the fact that we’ve come to accept pedestrian fatalities and severe injuries as a kind of cost of driving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3286\" data-end=\"3633\">Our goal in San Francisco, and in many cities, is to reduce and ultimately eliminate all fatalities. I don’t want any of us—or any of the listeners—to get a phone call saying your family member, your spouse, your child has been in a severe crash or, God forbid, has died. All of our work is centered around preventing and minimizing these crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3635\" data-end=\"3962\">From a high-level perspective, we want to reduce those numbers. And while we can talk about progress and data, where we do start is with data. Last week, the city published a high-injury network map. That’s 13% of streets where 78% of fatalities and severe injuries happen. So we know the dangerous streets we need to focus on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3964\" data-end=\"4195\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3964\" data-end=\"3984\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’re talking about San Francisco’s efforts to improve pedestrian safety. We’re joined by Viktoriya Wise, director of the streets division at SFMTA, and Jodie Medeiros, executive director of Walk San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4197\" data-end=\"4473\">We’re talking about streets that feel unsafe or could use traffic calming or other measures. Is there one in your neighborhood? You can give us a call: 866-733-6786. What’s happening there, and what would you like to see done? Again, 866-733-6786. The email is \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"4458\" data-end=\"4472\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4475\" data-end=\"4643\">Viktoriya, I want to come back to Vision Zero. It was adopted in 2014. Do you think it helped the city make progress? And was it effective to set such a difficult goal?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4645\" data-end=\"4932\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4645\" data-end=\"4664\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> I think it absolutely helped the city make progress, and it was effective. First of all, we’ve had a lot of learnings from Vision Zero. We started out focusing on engineering solutions, enforcement, and education campaigns, but we’ve learned a lot in the last decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4934\" data-end=\"5430\">In particular, we’ve learned that people make mistakes—that’s inevitable. So how do we build systems that mitigate the impact of those mistakes? Over the last decade, we’ve adopted what’s called the Safe Systems approach. We look at the systems we put together: roadway design, post-crash care, vehicle design, and human behavior—like not driving drunk, wearing a helmet, or not riding scooters on sidewalks. And of course, speed, which is the number one factor in fatalities and severe injuries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5432\" data-end=\"5789\">Bringing all of that together is how we’re approaching the next decade. It’s now a nationally recognized best practice. In San Francisco, we’re moving in that direction collectively—with policymakers, the Board of Supervisors under the leadership of Myrna Melgar, and our mayor, who issued an executive directive last December for a Safe Streets initiative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5791\" data-end=\"6006\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5791\" data-end=\"5811\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Jodie, from your perspective, some of the things Viktoriya mentioned—like redesigning cars—are difficult for a city to accomplish. How would you prioritize making the city safer for pedestrians?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6008\" data-end=\"6215\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6008\" data-end=\"6027\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> There are two things the city has done recently that point to real progress. I agree with Viktoriya—Vision Zero is a work in progress. Now that we know what works, we need to double down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6217\" data-end=\"6470\">In 2019, SFMTA started an innovative “quick-build” program. This is about redesigning streets that were built for vehicles so they work better for people walking, biking, and so on—using lower-cost materials to test designs before making them permanent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6472\" data-end=\"6718\">In the Tenderloin, over six years, 100% of streets received these treatments, and pedestrian-involved collisions have been reduced by 30 to 50%. That’s real progress. In 2019, there were four pedestrian fatalities there; in 2025, there were zero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6720\" data-end=\"6948\">The second thing is speed cameras. Walk San Francisco and our partners at Families for Safe Streets spent ten years pushing for legislation in Sacramento. We finally passed it so that six cities in California can implement them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6950\" data-end=\"6992\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6950\" data-end=\"6970\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Why was that so hard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6994\" data-end=\"7255\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6994\" data-end=\"7013\">Jodie Medeiros:\u003c/strong> Legislators didn’t initially see it as a solution. But we knew from other cities—and from data—that it works. We had to refine the legislation over time. Now California has one of the most equitable and fair speed camera laws in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7257\" data-end=\"7457\">Unfortunately, we’re limited in how many cameras we can have—San Francisco has 33, Oakland has 18, and Los Angeles will have up to 250, based on population. But they’re working—speeds are coming down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7459\" data-end=\"7515\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7459\" data-end=\"7479\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> How do you measure that, Viktoriya?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7517\" data-end=\"7891\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7517\" data-end=\"7536\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> We track data from warnings and citations, and we also collect field data—like from those tubes you drive over on the road. We’ve seen a 78% reduction in speeding. That’s about 40,000 people reducing their speed. And as I mentioned, that’s critical—because it’s physics. The faster you go, the more likely a pedestrian will be severely injured or killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7893\" data-end=\"8097\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7893\" data-end=\"7913\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Right—it’s mass times velocity. And we’ve got larger vehicles now—trucks and SUVs that sit higher, which people may like individually, but collectively they’re more deadly in crashes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8099\" data-end=\"8132\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8099\" data-end=\"8118\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> That’s right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8134\" data-end=\"8465\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8134\" data-end=\"8154\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ve got a comment from a listener. Carlos writes: “Perhaps the most important variable in pedestrian safety is momentum. The faster the traffic, the deadlier the incidents. Less congestion—like during the government shutdown—could lead to higher speeds. Could that explain the recent increase in fatalities?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8467\" data-end=\"8524\">I’m guessing you wouldn’t attribute it to just one cause?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8526\" data-end=\"8767\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8526\" data-end=\"8545\">Viktoriya Wise:\u003c/strong> That’s right. It’s a combination of factors. But the listener is correct to point out what we saw during COVID—people drove faster and got used to that behavior. Over time, we have to look at trends and dig into the data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8769\" data-end=\"8956\">We’re working with the Department of Public Health using the new high-injury network map to understand not just where crashes happen, but why—what time of day, what conditions, and so on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8958\" data-end=\"9114\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8958\" data-end=\"8978\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s SFMTA’s Viktoriya Wise. We’re also joined by Walk San Francisco’s Jodie Medeiros. We’ll be back with more right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "In New Book, Sen. Cory Booker Urges Americans to Take a 'Stand'",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, March 31 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>New Jersey Senator Cory Booker said this weekend that Democrats have “failed to meet this moment” and that his party needed “generational renewal.” The comments come a year after the Democrat set a Senate record, holding the floor for 25 hours and five minutes as he offered thundering criticism of the Trump administration. Now, in his new book, ‘Stand,’ Booker urges the country to rise to this moment. To make his point, he highlights the stories of ten Americans, some famous and others less well-known, who also met moments of crisis with steadfastness, strength and optimism. “Our democracy is not a spectator sport,” writes Booker. “It demands participation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"0\" data-end=\"76\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"0\" data-end=\"14\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> From KQED, this is \u003cem data-start=\"34\" data-end=\"41\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Grace Won, in for Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"78\" data-end=\"406\">A year ago today, Cory Booker stood on the Senate floor for 25 hours and 5 minutes to lambast the Trump administration for its assault on democratic norms. It broke a longstanding Senate record held by civil rights opponent Strom Thurmond, and that speech required three days of fasting and 24 hours without drinking anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"408\" data-end=\"648\">In his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"425\" data-end=\"432\">Stand\u003c/em>, the senior senator from New Jersey urges Americans to fight for a better future. “Our democracy needs more from us than endless posting and scrolling,” writes Booker, “because democracy is not a spectator sport.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"650\" data-end=\"832\">He joins us to talk about this moment and how the activists he’s studied—and those he has known—are informing his vision for the Democratic Party. Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"808\" data-end=\"815\">Forum\u003c/em>, Senator Booker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"834\" data-end=\"903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"834\" data-end=\"855\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s so good to be on. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"905\" data-end=\"1232\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"905\" data-end=\"919\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> Senator Booker, arguments in the birthright citizenship case at the Supreme Court ended just about an hour ago. President Trump was in attendance for part of that argument. This court has delivered both wins and losses for the president. Are you worried it might overturn the precedent of birthright citizenship?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1234\" data-end=\"1441\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1234\" data-end=\"1255\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’m definitely worried. The signs are that they won’t, but when a case goes before a Supreme Court this conservative, anything is possible. So I’m holding my breath and waiting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1443\" data-end=\"1759\">To me, this is clear in the law. Even when Congress was debating the Fourteenth Amendment, opponents said it would create an environment where people in this country—whether documented or not—would have children who are citizens. That was explicitly discussed during the debate, and it still overwhelmingly passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1761\" data-end=\"1868\">So it was clearly congressional intent, and any decision contrary to that would, to me, be wrongly decided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1870\" data-end=\"2244\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1870\" data-end=\"1884\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> You went on the show \u003cem data-start=\"1906\" data-end=\"1926\">Finding Your Roots\u003c/em> with Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., and it makes me think about how ancestry is part of your own story. You discovered enslaved people, Confederate soldiers, and Native Americans in your family history. When you think about birthright citizenship, does that connect to what your family history means to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2246\" data-end=\"2401\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2246\" data-end=\"2267\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> Yeah, it anguishes me. There’s a dark stream in America—this idea of defining who is “truly American” and otherizing everyone else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2403\" data-end=\"2614\">I’m proud that Skip Gates traced my ancestry back to 1640, and that my DNA includes Native American, African American, and European roots. In many ways, I feel like the story of America is written into my DNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2616\" data-end=\"2895\">I’m worried not just about this case, but about broader trends. For the first time, we’ve had a net population decline, in part because this president has throttled even legal immigration. That undermines our economy—job creation, tax revenue—but also the very idea of America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2897\" data-end=\"3084\">We are a nation not of one race or religion, but one open to all the streams of humanity. That ideal, inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, is part of what has made us a light to the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3086\" data-end=\"3192\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3086\" data-end=\"3100\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> What do you make of the fact that President Trump attended part of this morning’s hearings?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3194\" data-end=\"3379\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3194\" data-end=\"3215\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s more of his bullying, posturing, and arrogance. To me, it’s another sign of how this president relies on intimidation and undermines the heart of our country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3381\" data-end=\"3623\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3381\" data-end=\"3395\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> Tonight, we’re expecting a national address from the president about the Iran war. He has said Iran has been defeated, then that the conflict would continue, and then that it was over. What do you want to hear from him tonight?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3625\" data-end=\"3796\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3625\" data-end=\"3646\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> This president has contradicted himself repeatedly. He’s given shifting reasons for the war—human rights, nuclear threats, missiles, regime change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3798\" data-end=\"4051\">Meanwhile, we’ve spent tens of billions of dollars, lost American lives, and have hundreds of injured service members. The situation has worsened: a more extreme regime, disruption in the Strait of Hormuz, a global oil shock, and rising costs at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4053\" data-end=\"4325\">This is a failed endeavor. It’s a violation of our Constitution, and it’s created a quagmire with no easy off-ramp. I don’t expect to hear anything compelling unless he admits he made a mistake and seeks a way out. But based on past statements, I don’t trust what he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4327\" data-end=\"4474\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4327\" data-end=\"4341\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> The country is now in this war. What should we—as a country, beyond the president—be doing to get out of what you call a “quagmire”?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4476\" data-end=\"4710\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4476\" data-end=\"4497\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> First, there needs to be a reckoning. The Constitution does not give a president unilateral authority to do what he’s done—spend tens of billions, deploy military forces, and escalate conflict without Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4712\" data-end=\"4869\">Congress must reassert its authority. What he’s done not only violates the Constitution but threatens democratic principles. Only Congress can declare war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4871\" data-end=\"4995\">We need accountability and a path to de-escalation. Right now, there’s been no meaningful oversight, and that has to change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4997\" data-end=\"5183\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4997\" data-end=\"5011\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> If past is prologue, it seems unlikely the president will admit wrongdoing. What does that reckoning look like—hearings, impeachment? And can this Congress actually do it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5185\" data-end=\"5324\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5185\" data-end=\"5206\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> I haven’t seen much backbone from my Republican colleagues. Many express concerns privately but won’t act publicly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5326\" data-end=\"5454\">On something as grave as war, Congress hasn’t even held open hearings. There’s been no accountability, no checks and balances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5456\" data-end=\"5689\">I’m working with a group of Democrats to push war powers resolutions—forcing votes and bringing this issue to the floor again and again. This should not be business as usual. We have to confront the moral stakes and demand oversight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5691\" data-end=\"5925\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5691\" data-end=\"5705\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> We’re hearing reports of some fractures within the Republican Party over support for the conflict. It must be difficult to work with colleagues who say one thing privately and another publicly. How do you navigate that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5927\" data-end=\"6176\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5927\" data-end=\"5948\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s frustrating. I’ve spent a lot of time studying past Senates and our founders. Jefferson said, “When people are afraid of their government, there is tyranny. When the government is afraid of its people, there is liberty.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6178\" data-end=\"6340\">Right now, too many of my colleagues are more afraid of Donald Trump than of the people they represent—even though voters across parties don’t support this war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6342\" data-end=\"6582\">We also have to confront a deeper issue: the influence of money in politics. Billionaires and corporations wield enormous power. I’ve seen colleagues face threats of massive primary challenges funded by wealthy donors, and many back down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6584\" data-end=\"6722\">We need to address that corruption. It’s distorting our democracy, our tax system, and our economy—and we’re not doing enough to fight it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6724\" data-end=\"6798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6724\" data-end=\"6738\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> When you say Democrats, are you including party leadership?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6800\" data-end=\"6989\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6800\" data-end=\"6821\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> I’m talking about the Democratic Party writ large. Fighting corruption should be a central priority—not just for one party, but for anyone who cares about democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6991\" data-end=\"7188\">When a small number of wealthy individuals can fund such a large share of political campaigns, that’s dangerous. We all need to prioritize fixing that if we want a government that works for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7190\" data-end=\"7323\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7190\" data-end=\"7204\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. His new book is \u003cem data-start=\"7275\" data-end=\"7282\">Stand\u003c/em>, which we’ll get into after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7325\" data-end=\"7438\">We want to hear from you—what are your questions for Senator Booker? Email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"7400\" data-end=\"7414\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a> or call 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7440\" data-end=\"7501\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">I’m Grace Won, in for Mina Kim. More \u003cem data-start=\"7477\" data-end=\"7484\">Forum\u003c/em> after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, March 31 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>New Jersey Senator Cory Booker said this weekend that Democrats have “failed to meet this moment” and that his party needed “generational renewal.” The comments come a year after the Democrat set a Senate record, holding the floor for 25 hours and five minutes as he offered thundering criticism of the Trump administration. Now, in his new book, ‘Stand,’ Booker urges the country to rise to this moment. To make his point, he highlights the stories of ten Americans, some famous and others less well-known, who also met moments of crisis with steadfastness, strength and optimism. “Our democracy is not a spectator sport,” writes Booker. “It demands participation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"0\" data-end=\"76\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"0\" data-end=\"14\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> From KQED, this is \u003cem data-start=\"34\" data-end=\"41\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Grace Won, in for Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"78\" data-end=\"406\">A year ago today, Cory Booker stood on the Senate floor for 25 hours and 5 minutes to lambast the Trump administration for its assault on democratic norms. It broke a longstanding Senate record held by civil rights opponent Strom Thurmond, and that speech required three days of fasting and 24 hours without drinking anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"408\" data-end=\"648\">In his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"425\" data-end=\"432\">Stand\u003c/em>, the senior senator from New Jersey urges Americans to fight for a better future. “Our democracy needs more from us than endless posting and scrolling,” writes Booker, “because democracy is not a spectator sport.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"650\" data-end=\"832\">He joins us to talk about this moment and how the activists he’s studied—and those he has known—are informing his vision for the Democratic Party. Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"808\" data-end=\"815\">Forum\u003c/em>, Senator Booker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"834\" data-end=\"903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"834\" data-end=\"855\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s so good to be on. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"905\" data-end=\"1232\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"905\" data-end=\"919\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> Senator Booker, arguments in the birthright citizenship case at the Supreme Court ended just about an hour ago. President Trump was in attendance for part of that argument. This court has delivered both wins and losses for the president. Are you worried it might overturn the precedent of birthright citizenship?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1234\" data-end=\"1441\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1234\" data-end=\"1255\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’m definitely worried. The signs are that they won’t, but when a case goes before a Supreme Court this conservative, anything is possible. So I’m holding my breath and waiting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1443\" data-end=\"1759\">To me, this is clear in the law. Even when Congress was debating the Fourteenth Amendment, opponents said it would create an environment where people in this country—whether documented or not—would have children who are citizens. That was explicitly discussed during the debate, and it still overwhelmingly passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1761\" data-end=\"1868\">So it was clearly congressional intent, and any decision contrary to that would, to me, be wrongly decided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1870\" data-end=\"2244\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1870\" data-end=\"1884\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> You went on the show \u003cem data-start=\"1906\" data-end=\"1926\">Finding Your Roots\u003c/em> with Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., and it makes me think about how ancestry is part of your own story. You discovered enslaved people, Confederate soldiers, and Native Americans in your family history. When you think about birthright citizenship, does that connect to what your family history means to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2246\" data-end=\"2401\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2246\" data-end=\"2267\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> Yeah, it anguishes me. There’s a dark stream in America—this idea of defining who is “truly American” and otherizing everyone else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2403\" data-end=\"2614\">I’m proud that Skip Gates traced my ancestry back to 1640, and that my DNA includes Native American, African American, and European roots. In many ways, I feel like the story of America is written into my DNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2616\" data-end=\"2895\">I’m worried not just about this case, but about broader trends. For the first time, we’ve had a net population decline, in part because this president has throttled even legal immigration. That undermines our economy—job creation, tax revenue—but also the very idea of America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2897\" data-end=\"3084\">We are a nation not of one race or religion, but one open to all the streams of humanity. That ideal, inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, is part of what has made us a light to the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3086\" data-end=\"3192\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3086\" data-end=\"3100\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> What do you make of the fact that President Trump attended part of this morning’s hearings?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3194\" data-end=\"3379\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3194\" data-end=\"3215\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s more of his bullying, posturing, and arrogance. To me, it’s another sign of how this president relies on intimidation and undermines the heart of our country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3381\" data-end=\"3623\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3381\" data-end=\"3395\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> Tonight, we’re expecting a national address from the president about the Iran war. He has said Iran has been defeated, then that the conflict would continue, and then that it was over. What do you want to hear from him tonight?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3625\" data-end=\"3796\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3625\" data-end=\"3646\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> This president has contradicted himself repeatedly. He’s given shifting reasons for the war—human rights, nuclear threats, missiles, regime change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3798\" data-end=\"4051\">Meanwhile, we’ve spent tens of billions of dollars, lost American lives, and have hundreds of injured service members. The situation has worsened: a more extreme regime, disruption in the Strait of Hormuz, a global oil shock, and rising costs at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4053\" data-end=\"4325\">This is a failed endeavor. It’s a violation of our Constitution, and it’s created a quagmire with no easy off-ramp. I don’t expect to hear anything compelling unless he admits he made a mistake and seeks a way out. But based on past statements, I don’t trust what he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4327\" data-end=\"4474\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4327\" data-end=\"4341\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> The country is now in this war. What should we—as a country, beyond the president—be doing to get out of what you call a “quagmire”?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4476\" data-end=\"4710\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4476\" data-end=\"4497\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> First, there needs to be a reckoning. The Constitution does not give a president unilateral authority to do what he’s done—spend tens of billions, deploy military forces, and escalate conflict without Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4712\" data-end=\"4869\">Congress must reassert its authority. What he’s done not only violates the Constitution but threatens democratic principles. Only Congress can declare war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4871\" data-end=\"4995\">We need accountability and a path to de-escalation. Right now, there’s been no meaningful oversight, and that has to change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4997\" data-end=\"5183\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4997\" data-end=\"5011\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> If past is prologue, it seems unlikely the president will admit wrongdoing. What does that reckoning look like—hearings, impeachment? And can this Congress actually do it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5185\" data-end=\"5324\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5185\" data-end=\"5206\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> I haven’t seen much backbone from my Republican colleagues. Many express concerns privately but won’t act publicly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5326\" data-end=\"5454\">On something as grave as war, Congress hasn’t even held open hearings. There’s been no accountability, no checks and balances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5456\" data-end=\"5689\">I’m working with a group of Democrats to push war powers resolutions—forcing votes and bringing this issue to the floor again and again. This should not be business as usual. We have to confront the moral stakes and demand oversight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5691\" data-end=\"5925\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5691\" data-end=\"5705\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> We’re hearing reports of some fractures within the Republican Party over support for the conflict. It must be difficult to work with colleagues who say one thing privately and another publicly. How do you navigate that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5927\" data-end=\"6176\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5927\" data-end=\"5948\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> It’s frustrating. I’ve spent a lot of time studying past Senates and our founders. Jefferson said, “When people are afraid of their government, there is tyranny. When the government is afraid of its people, there is liberty.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6178\" data-end=\"6340\">Right now, too many of my colleagues are more afraid of Donald Trump than of the people they represent—even though voters across parties don’t support this war.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6342\" data-end=\"6582\">We also have to confront a deeper issue: the influence of money in politics. Billionaires and corporations wield enormous power. I’ve seen colleagues face threats of massive primary challenges funded by wealthy donors, and many back down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6584\" data-end=\"6722\">We need to address that corruption. It’s distorting our democracy, our tax system, and our economy—and we’re not doing enough to fight it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6724\" data-end=\"6798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6724\" data-end=\"6738\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> When you say Democrats, are you including party leadership?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6800\" data-end=\"6989\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6800\" data-end=\"6821\">Sen. Cory Booker:\u003c/strong> I’m talking about the Democratic Party writ large. Fighting corruption should be a central priority—not just for one party, but for anyone who cares about democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6991\" data-end=\"7188\">When a small number of wealthy individuals can fund such a large share of political campaigns, that’s dangerous. We all need to prioritize fixing that if we want a government that works for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7190\" data-end=\"7323\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7190\" data-end=\"7204\">Grace Won:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. His new book is \u003cem data-start=\"7275\" data-end=\"7282\">Stand\u003c/em>, which we’ll get into after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7325\" data-end=\"7438\">We want to hear from you—what are your questions for Senator Booker? Email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"7400\" data-end=\"7414\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a> or call 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7440\" data-end=\"7501\" data-is-last-node=\"\" data-is-only-node=\"\">I’m Grace Won, in for Mina Kim. More \u003cem data-start=\"7477\" data-end=\"7484\">Forum\u003c/em> after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 28 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>One of the main drivers of homelessness in the Bay Area is simply a lack of affordable housing for people with the very lowest incomes. In Part 4 of our series “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” we’ll take a look at some innovative strategies developers and cities are exploring to fund projects and lower the cost of construction. We bring together housing developers, housing experts and Bay Area residents to discuss what works to bring more permanent housing that formerly homeless people can actually afford.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/YjdZf2uhwn0\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/8kQ0oR7r0Dw\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"soldout": {
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"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
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