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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 28 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Colorado River basin and its two largest reservoirs, Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are facing record-low water levels, and the seven states that rely on the water system can’t agree on what to do about it. Now the federal government may need to step in, with the Trump Administration proposing a plan that would cut 40 percent of the Colorado River’s water supply to Arizona, California and Nevada over the next decade. We’ll talk with environment journalists about what this could mean here in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Lesley McClurg, in today for Mina Kim. The Colorado River has made the West as we know it possible. It’s allowed millions of people to live in the desert, turned dry farmland green, and helped fuel cities like Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. But there is not enough water in the river to go around. Rising temperatures, decades of overuse, and a long-term drying trend are all shrinking the Colorado River system and pushing major reservoirs to historic lows. States across the West are now fighting over how to share what’s left. So where do we go from here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We’re joined by Luke Runyon, co-director of the Water Desk at the Center for Environmental Journalism at the University of Colorado. Welcome, Luke.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> Hi, thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It’s been a rough year for the river. There’s currently a drought — give us a sense of how bad it is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> We’re really gearing up for a pretty unprecedented year in the Colorado River Basin. We’ve had some bad years in recent memory, and this one is shaping up to be even worse. The drought of record for the basin was set back in 2002 — really dry, unprecedented conditions. This year is threatening to break that record in terms of water supply for the region. We had very low snowpack across the Rocky Mountains, where the Colorado River and its main tributaries begin, along with record warm temperatures over the winter and into the spring. A March heat wave sapped whatever snowpack remained, pushing the timing of everything up. We’re now approaching a summer that could be very hot and very dry for the Colorado River Basin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> What does that look like on the ground? Has the river itself visibly changed? Are there parts that could actually dry up?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> Yes. I live here in western Colorado, in Grand Junction, which is one of the cities the Colorado River flows through. Already this season we’ve seen really low levels — conditions you’d normally expect in late summer, in September, are happening in April and May, when the river is supposed to be getting its annual rise. You’re seeing it in the river itself, and also in its largest reservoirs, Lakes Powell and Mead. These are the two largest reservoirs in the country. A lot of people rely on them for their water supply, and both are taking a significant hit this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> How is the water divided up among farming, cities, and different regions — who’s using the most?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> It’s a mix of uses throughout the Southwest. Agriculture is the single largest user of Colorado River water — depending on how you measure it, somewhere between seventy-five and eighty percent of the total. A lot of that is in heavily farmed areas in Southern California and Southern Arizona, which produce much of the winter vegetables we see throughout the country, along with many other crops year-round. Municipalities make up roughly fifteen to twenty percent, and that includes some very large urban areas — Los Angeles, the Phoenix metro, and in the upper basin, cities like Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, and Denver that rely on the Colorado River for a portion of their supply. The remainder goes to miscellaneous industrial uses. There’s also been a lot of talk about data center expansion in the Southwest, which is an emerging and growing use of Colorado River water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Federal officials are now stepping in because the states can’t agree on what to do. They’re discussing scenarios that would dramatically reduce how much water states receive in the coming years. How serious is this moment? Are we talking about incremental, year-by-year conservation changes, or are we looking at radical shifts in how the West uses water going forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> A lot of people describe this as a slow-moving train wreck, because these problems have been visible for at least the last couple of decades. We’ve long known the Colorado River is over-allocated and over-prescribed, but regional leaders haven’t been able to agree on the scale of cuts needed to live within the means of a shrinking river. Because of that, they’ve been locked in a stalemate for the past several years — the seven states that rely on the river unable to adequately reduce their usage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Now the federal government has realized that this stalemate is threatening the infrastructure it manages. Large dams like Hoover and Glen Canyon are losing hydropower production and approaching levels where it would be physically impossible to move water through them. That threat is real, and I think it’s pushing the federal government to come to the table and essentially force the states’ hands — saying, if you can’t come to an agreement on how to cut, we may have to make those decisions for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> What specifically is the Bureau of Reclamation proposing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> We’ve seen a few different proposals over the last six months or so. The latest from the Bureau of Reclamation would place the largest burden of cutbacks on the lower basin states — California, Arizona, and Nevada. Those states also put forward their own proposal, which would cut a little over three million acre-feet over the next few years. The federal plan would institute steeper cuts on a faster timeline. Right now there’s still real uncertainty about which plan will end up ruling the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> How unprecedented is it for the federal government to step in like this? Historically, the states have managed to work things out on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> I’d say the federal government is still somewhat reluctantly stepping in — nobody really wants to own this problem. It doesn’t divide neatly along partisan lines, with a mix of states and politics at play. The Trump administration isn’t eager to take over the Colorado River as a problem area. But the hydrologic conditions are forcing everyone’s hand. The river is getting so low, and demand isn’t declining at the same pace. Physically, we just don’t have the water to meet everyone’s needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">In the past, the federal government has often pressured states to reach agreement through threats and regulatory leverage, but it has never firmly put its hand on the spigot to start ratcheting back water deliveries. We’ll see if that’s where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The river is obviously home not just to cities and golf courses, but to immense wildlife. People raft, fish, boat on Powell and Mead — what do these low levels mean for recreation, habitat, and fisheries?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> The low levels are really threatening the region’s recreation economy. Here in the upper basin where I live, whitewater rafting is an iconic part of the western summer economy. This year, the season is just going to be so short that outfitters are really wringing their hands, wondering how to bring tourists in now when conditions are decent rather than later in the summer during peak vacation season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">At the large reservoirs, Lake Powell is normally a motorboater’s paradise — wakeboarding, houseboating across the reservoir. Right now there’s only one usable boat ramp at Lake Powell because of how low it is. When you’re in a canyon, once the water level drops past a certain point, the boat ramps essentially fall off a cliff. The National Park Service is scrambling right now to keep boat ramps viable as Powell approaches these record lows.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I’ve been on those houseboats — it’s really hard to imagine those beautiful canyons becoming inaccessible. In our final few minutes before the break: Native tribes have legal rights to Colorado River water as well, but have historically been excluded from key decisions. Are they being included in current negotiations?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to generalize, because some tribes have been included. Particularly in the lower basin, there are tribes with access to quite a bit of Colorado River water, and they’ve been somewhat involved because state and federal leaders see their water as part of the potential solution. But there are thirty Native American tribes throughout the Colorado River Basin, and they have not all been at the table.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Leading up to these negotiations, states and the federal government made a lot of promises that this time would be different — that they would more meaningfully include tribes, bringing their economic, cultural, and spiritual interests into the discussions. From the tribes I’ve spoken with, that simply has not been the case. 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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 28 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The Colorado River basin and its two largest reservoirs, Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are facing record-low water levels, and the seven states that rely on the water system can’t agree on what to do about it. Now the federal government may need to step in, with the Trump Administration proposing a plan that would cut 40 percent of the Colorado River’s water supply to Arizona, California and Nevada over the next decade. We’ll talk with environment journalists about what this could mean here in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Lesley McClurg, in today for Mina Kim. The Colorado River has made the West as we know it possible. It’s allowed millions of people to live in the desert, turned dry farmland green, and helped fuel cities like Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. But there is not enough water in the river to go around. Rising temperatures, decades of overuse, and a long-term drying trend are all shrinking the Colorado River system and pushing major reservoirs to historic lows. States across the West are now fighting over how to share what’s left. So where do we go from here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We’re joined by Luke Runyon, co-director of the Water Desk at the Center for Environmental Journalism at the University of Colorado. Welcome, Luke.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> Hi, thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It’s been a rough year for the river. There’s currently a drought — give us a sense of how bad it is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> We’re really gearing up for a pretty unprecedented year in the Colorado River Basin. We’ve had some bad years in recent memory, and this one is shaping up to be even worse. The drought of record for the basin was set back in 2002 — really dry, unprecedented conditions. This year is threatening to break that record in terms of water supply for the region. We had very low snowpack across the Rocky Mountains, where the Colorado River and its main tributaries begin, along with record warm temperatures over the winter and into the spring. A March heat wave sapped whatever snowpack remained, pushing the timing of everything up. We’re now approaching a summer that could be very hot and very dry for the Colorado River Basin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> What does that look like on the ground? Has the river itself visibly changed? Are there parts that could actually dry up?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> Yes. I live here in western Colorado, in Grand Junction, which is one of the cities the Colorado River flows through. Already this season we’ve seen really low levels — conditions you’d normally expect in late summer, in September, are happening in April and May, when the river is supposed to be getting its annual rise. You’re seeing it in the river itself, and also in its largest reservoirs, Lakes Powell and Mead. These are the two largest reservoirs in the country. A lot of people rely on them for their water supply, and both are taking a significant hit this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> How is the water divided up among farming, cities, and different regions — who’s using the most?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> It’s a mix of uses throughout the Southwest. Agriculture is the single largest user of Colorado River water — depending on how you measure it, somewhere between seventy-five and eighty percent of the total. A lot of that is in heavily farmed areas in Southern California and Southern Arizona, which produce much of the winter vegetables we see throughout the country, along with many other crops year-round. Municipalities make up roughly fifteen to twenty percent, and that includes some very large urban areas — Los Angeles, the Phoenix metro, and in the upper basin, cities like Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, and Denver that rely on the Colorado River for a portion of their supply. The remainder goes to miscellaneous industrial uses. There’s also been a lot of talk about data center expansion in the Southwest, which is an emerging and growing use of Colorado River water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Federal officials are now stepping in because the states can’t agree on what to do. They’re discussing scenarios that would dramatically reduce how much water states receive in the coming years. How serious is this moment? Are we talking about incremental, year-by-year conservation changes, or are we looking at radical shifts in how the West uses water going forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> A lot of people describe this as a slow-moving train wreck, because these problems have been visible for at least the last couple of decades. We’ve long known the Colorado River is over-allocated and over-prescribed, but regional leaders haven’t been able to agree on the scale of cuts needed to live within the means of a shrinking river. Because of that, they’ve been locked in a stalemate for the past several years — the seven states that rely on the river unable to adequately reduce their usage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Now the federal government has realized that this stalemate is threatening the infrastructure it manages. Large dams like Hoover and Glen Canyon are losing hydropower production and approaching levels where it would be physically impossible to move water through them. That threat is real, and I think it’s pushing the federal government to come to the table and essentially force the states’ hands — saying, if you can’t come to an agreement on how to cut, we may have to make those decisions for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> What specifically is the Bureau of Reclamation proposing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> We’ve seen a few different proposals over the last six months or so. The latest from the Bureau of Reclamation would place the largest burden of cutbacks on the lower basin states — California, Arizona, and Nevada. Those states also put forward their own proposal, which would cut a little over three million acre-feet over the next few years. The federal plan would institute steeper cuts on a faster timeline. Right now there’s still real uncertainty about which plan will end up ruling the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> How unprecedented is it for the federal government to step in like this? Historically, the states have managed to work things out on their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> I’d say the federal government is still somewhat reluctantly stepping in — nobody really wants to own this problem. It doesn’t divide neatly along partisan lines, with a mix of states and politics at play. The Trump administration isn’t eager to take over the Colorado River as a problem area. But the hydrologic conditions are forcing everyone’s hand. The river is getting so low, and demand isn’t declining at the same pace. Physically, we just don’t have the water to meet everyone’s needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">In the past, the federal government has often pressured states to reach agreement through threats and regulatory leverage, but it has never firmly put its hand on the spigot to start ratcheting back water deliveries. We’ll see if that’s where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The river is obviously home not just to cities and golf courses, but to immense wildlife. People raft, fish, boat on Powell and Mead — what do these low levels mean for recreation, habitat, and fisheries?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> The low levels are really threatening the region’s recreation economy. Here in the upper basin where I live, whitewater rafting is an iconic part of the western summer economy. This year, the season is just going to be so short that outfitters are really wringing their hands, wondering how to bring tourists in now when conditions are decent rather than later in the summer during peak vacation season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">At the large reservoirs, Lake Powell is normally a motorboater’s paradise — wakeboarding, houseboating across the reservoir. Right now there’s only one usable boat ramp at Lake Powell because of how low it is. When you’re in a canyon, once the water level drops past a certain point, the boat ramps essentially fall off a cliff. The National Park Service is scrambling right now to keep boat ramps viable as Powell approaches these record lows.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I’ve been on those houseboats — it’s really hard to imagine those beautiful canyons becoming inaccessible. In our final few minutes before the break: Native tribes have legal rights to Colorado River water as well, but have historically been excluded from key decisions. Are they being included in current negotiations?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Luke Runyon:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to generalize, because some tribes have been included. Particularly in the lower basin, there are tribes with access to quite a bit of Colorado River water, and they’ve been somewhat involved because state and federal leaders see their water as part of the potential solution. But there are thirty Native American tribes throughout the Colorado River Basin, and they have not all been at the table.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Leading up to these negotiations, states and the federal government made a lot of promises that this time would be different — that they would more meaningfully include tribes, bringing their economic, cultural, and spiritual interests into the discussions. From the tribes I’ve spoken with, that simply has not been the case. And I think it’s a significant disappointment for tribes at this critical moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> We’ve been talking about the Colorado River drought with Luke Runyon, co-director of the Water Desk at the Center for Environmental Journalism at the University of Colorado. We’ll be right back after this break. I’m Lesley McClurg — stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "After a Year as Oakland's Mayor, Barbara Lee Looks to 'Finish the Job' ",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 28 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Barbara Lee was elected mayor of Oakland last year with the city reeling from a political scandal, mired deep in fiscal crisis and scarred by years of violent crime. She promised a calm, no-nonsense approach to dealing with Oakland’s major problems. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A year later, the city’s financial outlook has stabilized some, its streets are safer than they have been in decades and Mayor Lee is talking about running for a full four-year term. We’ll talk with Lee about the successes of the past year and about the city’s many challenges including homelessness, the budget, illegal dumping and an empty downtown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Alexis Madrigal. It’s no surprise to anyone who listens to this show that I’m an Oakland resident, so I have my own daily perspective on what’s happened in our city during Mayor Barbara Lee’s tenure in office. My simplest take: things are better, at least in the parts of the city I know best — from the port up through West Oakland and on through North Oakland to the Berkeley border.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We’ve got some major problems too. Police overtime is staggering. Crime has plummeted over the last couple of years, but we’re no San Jose, to say nothing of tony suburbs. And while many neighborhoods are thriving, the downtown core is a shadow of its pre-pandemic self and shows few signs of returning to its previous vibrancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, lots to talk about. Here with me is Mayor Barbara Lee. Welcome to the show, Mayor. It’s nice to have you back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Nice to be back. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We also want to invite listeners into the show early, particularly if you’re an Oakland resident. You can give us a call at 866-733-6786. We’ve got the mayor here with us. You can also email your comments and questions to \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, take us back a little over a year ago. You took office — just on a gut level, how did the city look to you when you took over, and how did you view the challenge?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Thanks for that question. Remember, I was a resident of Oakland. I served in Congress for nearly twenty-seven years, but every weekend — three days — I was in Oakland. I literally commuted back and forth. During the campaign, people were saying I didn’t know Oakland, and I said, wait a minute, I know Oakland very well. I understand what took place before COVID, during COVID, and after COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">For me, it seemed like especially after COVID, there was a fog. The world was turned upside down during COVID, and I fought hard to bring in millions of dollars to Oakland just to weather the storm. Once we started transitioning out of COVID, it was another city — every city was another city. The world was different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">What I was determined to do was help lift that fog and let people know they had a city and a mayor working with them and for them. We needed more engagement so people could begin to trust the city, trust their elected officials, and help reset what had unfortunately taken place. It’s still a challenge, but we’re on the move. We’re engaged with people — working groups, going out into neighborhoods, taking police and public safety officials into communities, bringing budget officials in for town meetings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Getting in proximity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> That’s right. We’re on the move. And believe me — I’m a resident, so I know that fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You came in with a hundred-day plan. In order, the priorities you named were: homelessness, illegal dumping, vegetation management, high-risk fire zones, working with OPD and business leaders on public safety, the Charter Reform Task Force, permitting reform, convening CEOs to address business and public safety issues, stabilizing city finances, attracting philanthropists, and auditing city contracts. Off the top of your head — which has gone the best, and which needs the most work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Wow, that’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Just pick one of each — one that’s gone well and one that needs work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> What’s gone well is resetting our strategy around homelessness and illegal dumping — even though most people don’t see or feel it yet. We were able to start a new initiative to keep the city clean. City staff, to their credit, began working overtime on weekends. We started neighborhood cleanups that are still ongoing, especially around schools and more severely impacted areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I worked with Council Member Zac Unger on a resolution and legislation that includes prevention, eradication, and education. We also used technology — and I’m very careful around privacy — specifically aerial mapping to identify where the majority of illegal dumping is occurring so we can deploy code enforcement proactively. That technology passed the Privacy Commission on a unanimous vote, which was very important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">On homelessness, we established the Office of Homelessness Solutions. Prevention is the priority. We have a strategic plan and are working to receive funding from Measure W from the county through a formula that includes equity. When you look at Alameda County and Oakland, Oakland is about twenty-two percent of the county’s population but accounts for about fifty-eight percent of the unsheltered population — and over seventy percent of those individuals are Black. That’s a racial inequity issue we have to address if we’re going to find real solutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> When we talk about homelessness and changing strategies — what is your approach to encampment closures, what some call sweeps? The city council passed policy making it easier to conduct sweeps and tow RVs. Do you fundamentally agree with the council’s approach, or do you want something different?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Neighborhood health and safety is extremely important, as is making sure people have places to live — I firmly believe both. We need high-priority zones where encampments are not permitted and lower-priority zones with more space for RVs. My position was that we must find shelter first, because encampments can trigger serious public health crises, and we can’t simply recycle people from one location to another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Housing is a basic human right, so we have to find that balance. I didn’t take a formal position on the council policy because I wanted to focus on our broader homelessness strategies. But I do know we made it a better policy as it moved through the process — the first priority became ensuring people have shelter to go to, which is what I focused on throughout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> My question is, when we looked at the numbers, we were a little surprised that camp closures have gone up during your tenure. It’s hard to know exactly how closures are being defined, but the core question is: do you want that number to go up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> I want the number to go down, and I want housing — shelter, transitional housing, supportive housing, permanent housing — to go up. That’s the point. We did the point-in-time count, and we’re down about twenty percent in Oakland. People don’t believe it, but it’s true — we verified the numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And yes, I want to make sure everyone has a place to go. A lot of people who are unsheltered are actually working — they’re part of the working poor. The affordability crisis is real in Oakland. People not making enough to rent an apartment are living on the street. What I’m working on now is a model similar to a program in Oregon called Glitter, where people are hired and paid twenty to twenty-four dollars an hour to clean up dumping and trash. About seventy percent of those individuals find permanent housing because they have the income. The affordability crisis is central to what we have to address.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> What can a mayor actually do about the affordability crisis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> We have to build more deeply affordable housing. I’m fighting in Sacramento for HAP funding — state funding — and working to reduce construction costs through tax incentives, identifying zones in the city where we need to build more deeply affordable housing, and converting motels and hotels in appropriate areas into shelter. The city can do a lot, and we are doing a lot. But we need resources to do more. Right now we’re barely treading water — though we’re going to keep pushing and raising additional resources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You came in at a time when the budget was at a crisis point. We knew cuts were coming from the federal government. Regardless of whether Measure E passes — do you feel like the budget is at least stable right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> I believe the budget is barely stable. And the facts are clear — people should not believe the misinformation. Under the Trump administration, we’ve lost at least twenty-four million dollars, and we’re projected to lose another five million from the state. That drain is going to continue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We put forward a balanced budget, but it reflects only what we have now — nothing to move the city forward. We need more affordable housing, more shelter space, more services for unsheltered residents. And yes, it relied on some one-time measures to achieve balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">The budget I presented is balanced within the context of no ballot measure passing — it would be irresponsible to assume something will pass or fail. But Measure E is important because we need to continue building affordable housing and expanding development strategies. Right now we’re treading water, but our residents deserve better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I’ll also say this: when I was sworn in, the grand jury and others had concluded Oakland would never sell bonds again. We went to Wall Street anyway. What the bond market looks at is stability — and we demonstrated that. We sold three hundred and thirty-four million dollars in bonds for affordable housing, infrastructure, and transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ve got Mayor Barbara Lee, who has been mayor of Oakland for over a year now. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned for more right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 28 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Barbara Lee was elected mayor of Oakland last year with the city reeling from a political scandal, mired deep in fiscal crisis and scarred by years of violent crime. She promised a calm, no-nonsense approach to dealing with Oakland’s major problems. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> A year later, the city’s financial outlook has stabilized some, its streets are safer than they have been in decades and Mayor Lee is talking about running for a full four-year term. We’ll talk with Lee about the successes of the past year and about the city’s many challenges including homelessness, the budget, illegal dumping and an empty downtown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Alexis Madrigal. It’s no surprise to anyone who listens to this show that I’m an Oakland resident, so I have my own daily perspective on what’s happened in our city during Mayor Barbara Lee’s tenure in office. My simplest take: things are better, at least in the parts of the city I know best — from the port up through West Oakland and on through North Oakland to the Berkeley border.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We’ve got some major problems too. Police overtime is staggering. Crime has plummeted over the last couple of years, but we’re no San Jose, to say nothing of tony suburbs. And while many neighborhoods are thriving, the downtown core is a shadow of its pre-pandemic self and shows few signs of returning to its previous vibrancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, lots to talk about. Here with me is Mayor Barbara Lee. Welcome to the show, Mayor. It’s nice to have you back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Nice to be back. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We also want to invite listeners into the show early, particularly if you’re an Oakland resident. You can give us a call at 866-733-6786. We’ve got the mayor here with us. You can also email your comments and questions to \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, take us back a little over a year ago. You took office — just on a gut level, how did the city look to you when you took over, and how did you view the challenge?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Thanks for that question. Remember, I was a resident of Oakland. I served in Congress for nearly twenty-seven years, but every weekend — three days — I was in Oakland. I literally commuted back and forth. During the campaign, people were saying I didn’t know Oakland, and I said, wait a minute, I know Oakland very well. I understand what took place before COVID, during COVID, and after COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">For me, it seemed like especially after COVID, there was a fog. The world was turned upside down during COVID, and I fought hard to bring in millions of dollars to Oakland just to weather the storm. Once we started transitioning out of COVID, it was another city — every city was another city. The world was different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">What I was determined to do was help lift that fog and let people know they had a city and a mayor working with them and for them. We needed more engagement so people could begin to trust the city, trust their elected officials, and help reset what had unfortunately taken place. It’s still a challenge, but we’re on the move. We’re engaged with people — working groups, going out into neighborhoods, taking police and public safety officials into communities, bringing budget officials in for town meetings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Getting in proximity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> That’s right. We’re on the move. And believe me — I’m a resident, so I know that fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You came in with a hundred-day plan. In order, the priorities you named were: homelessness, illegal dumping, vegetation management, high-risk fire zones, working with OPD and business leaders on public safety, the Charter Reform Task Force, permitting reform, convening CEOs to address business and public safety issues, stabilizing city finances, attracting philanthropists, and auditing city contracts. Off the top of your head — which has gone the best, and which needs the most work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Wow, that’s a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Just pick one of each — one that’s gone well and one that needs work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> What’s gone well is resetting our strategy around homelessness and illegal dumping — even though most people don’t see or feel it yet. We were able to start a new initiative to keep the city clean. City staff, to their credit, began working overtime on weekends. We started neighborhood cleanups that are still ongoing, especially around schools and more severely impacted areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I worked with Council Member Zac Unger on a resolution and legislation that includes prevention, eradication, and education. We also used technology — and I’m very careful around privacy — specifically aerial mapping to identify where the majority of illegal dumping is occurring so we can deploy code enforcement proactively. That technology passed the Privacy Commission on a unanimous vote, which was very important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">On homelessness, we established the Office of Homelessness Solutions. Prevention is the priority. We have a strategic plan and are working to receive funding from Measure W from the county through a formula that includes equity. When you look at Alameda County and Oakland, Oakland is about twenty-two percent of the county’s population but accounts for about fifty-eight percent of the unsheltered population — and over seventy percent of those individuals are Black. That’s a racial inequity issue we have to address if we’re going to find real solutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> When we talk about homelessness and changing strategies — what is your approach to encampment closures, what some call sweeps? The city council passed policy making it easier to conduct sweeps and tow RVs. Do you fundamentally agree with the council’s approach, or do you want something different?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> Neighborhood health and safety is extremely important, as is making sure people have places to live — I firmly believe both. We need high-priority zones where encampments are not permitted and lower-priority zones with more space for RVs. My position was that we must find shelter first, because encampments can trigger serious public health crises, and we can’t simply recycle people from one location to another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Housing is a basic human right, so we have to find that balance. I didn’t take a formal position on the council policy because I wanted to focus on our broader homelessness strategies. But I do know we made it a better policy as it moved through the process — the first priority became ensuring people have shelter to go to, which is what I focused on throughout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> My question is, when we looked at the numbers, we were a little surprised that camp closures have gone up during your tenure. It’s hard to know exactly how closures are being defined, but the core question is: do you want that number to go up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> I want the number to go down, and I want housing — shelter, transitional housing, supportive housing, permanent housing — to go up. That’s the point. We did the point-in-time count, and we’re down about twenty percent in Oakland. People don’t believe it, but it’s true — we verified the numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And yes, I want to make sure everyone has a place to go. A lot of people who are unsheltered are actually working — they’re part of the working poor. The affordability crisis is real in Oakland. People not making enough to rent an apartment are living on the street. What I’m working on now is a model similar to a program in Oregon called Glitter, where people are hired and paid twenty to twenty-four dollars an hour to clean up dumping and trash. About seventy percent of those individuals find permanent housing because they have the income. The affordability crisis is central to what we have to address.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> What can a mayor actually do about the affordability crisis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> We have to build more deeply affordable housing. I’m fighting in Sacramento for HAP funding — state funding — and working to reduce construction costs through tax incentives, identifying zones in the city where we need to build more deeply affordable housing, and converting motels and hotels in appropriate areas into shelter. The city can do a lot, and we are doing a lot. But we need resources to do more. Right now we’re barely treading water — though we’re going to keep pushing and raising additional resources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You came in at a time when the budget was at a crisis point. We knew cuts were coming from the federal government. Regardless of whether Measure E passes — do you feel like the budget is at least stable right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Barbara Lee:\u003c/strong> I believe the budget is barely stable. And the facts are clear — people should not believe the misinformation. Under the Trump administration, we’ve lost at least twenty-four million dollars, and we’re projected to lose another five million from the state. That drain is going to continue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">We put forward a balanced budget, but it reflects only what we have now — nothing to move the city forward. We need more affordable housing, more shelter space, more services for unsheltered residents. And yes, it relied on some one-time measures to achieve balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">The budget I presented is balanced within the context of no ballot measure passing — it would be irresponsible to assume something will pass or fail. But Measure E is important because we need to continue building affordable housing and expanding development strategies. Right now we’re treading water, but our residents deserve better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I’ll also say this: when I was sworn in, the grand jury and others had concluded Oakland would never sell bonds again. We went to Wall Street anyway. What the bond market looks at is stability — and we demonstrated that. We sold three hundred and thirty-four million dollars in bonds for affordable housing, infrastructure, and transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ve got Mayor Barbara Lee, who has been mayor of Oakland for over a year now. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned for more right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, May 27 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>America used to value things — youth sports, local businesses and accessible healthcare, for example — simply because they were good for communities. That’s according to Sen. Chris Murphy, who says over the past 50 years the United States has seen a shift away from common goods in favor of profit, disconnection and unhappiness. We speak with the Connecticut Democrat about his new book, “Crisis of the Common Good,” and the values he believes could unite America — or at least the Democratic Party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv>\n\u003cdiv data-test-render-count=\"1\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"group\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"contents\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"group relative relative pb-3\" data-is-streaming=\"false\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"font-claude-response relative leading-[1.65rem] [&_pre>div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"standard-markdown grid-cols-1 grid [&_>_*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown\">\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Mina Kim. Connecticut senator Chris Murphy is regarded as a 2028 Democratic presidential contender. He’s been a vocal critic of the U.S. war in Iran as well as President Trump’s flagrant corruption and its role in undermining democracy. But Murphy says Trump is only a symptom, not the cause, of what ails America. In a new book, he lays out how he thinks we got here and what can be done to end our democratic and ethical unraveling. It’s called \u003cem>Crisis of the Common Good: The Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America\u003c/em>. Senator Murphy, welcome to Forum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Before we get into your book, I want to ask you about the latest national news, including where things stand with the war in Iran. The vague outlines of a peace deal that the Trump administration has suggested is still on the table — despite recent hostilities — is that the Strait of Hormuz would reopen within a month while the U.S. withdraws its forces, and that addressing Iran’s nuclear program would be pushed off until later. Is this a deal you would support?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> I want this war to end as quickly as possible. Every single day it goes on, America gets weaker, we are constantly humiliated, and Iran gets stronger. So I want the war to end, and I will support imperfect deals to make that happen. But let’s be clear about what they’re talking about: essentially returning to the status quo ante — to where things were before hostilities began. There’s also reporting that as part of this agreement, the United States would pay Iran money by releasing sanctions worth potentially billions of dollars. So after all of this devastation to the American economy and the world order, we’re going to pay Iran money so they reopen the strait — which is exactly where we were before the war began. The short answer is yes, I want the war to end and I’m rooting for it. But the outlines of this deal only make clearer what a terrible catastrophe this war has been.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> And it really isn’t a return to the status quo, as you’re laying out. The deal is far more than just imperfect. We now have an emboldened regime in Iran that’s willing to murder its own people, one that could reap billions of dollars in sanctions relief and knows it can weaponize the Strait of Hormuz at any time — with no guarantees that Iran will end its nuclear program or stop using its missiles against its neighbors or Israel. Are you okay with the war ending on these terms? And is there anything that can be done to dilute the potential harm?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> The problem is that if this war continues, we don’t get any closer to our war aims — we get further away. Let’s take Donald Trump’s shifting rationales at face value. He says we started the war to eliminate Iran’s nuclear program, their drone program, their missile program, and their navy. We haven’t done any of that, and we won’t, because those are impossible military tasks. You cannot, through an air campaign alone, eliminate their nuclear capability, their drones, or their missiles. In fact, public reporting suggests they still have seventy percent of their drones and missiles. And while you can take out the big ships in their navy, what closes the Strait of Hormuz is not the big ships — it’s the suicide skiffs and small speedboats that drop mines. None of these goals were achievable through the military campaign they designed. As you said, this regime is now stronger than it was before the war. They murdered a doddering, eighty-year-old Ayatollah who was barely in control of the country, and now there are younger, more provocative, and more lethal leaders in his place. We’re going to come out of this with America looking feckless and Iran potentially having permanent control of the strait. That’s another reported element of this deal — that while the strait will be reopened, Iran and Oman will jointly control which traffic goes through and when. That was never the case before the war began.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> You’ve introduced War Powers resolutions since this war began, to reassert Congress’s authority when it comes to declaring war and using military force. Last week, a resolution advanced out of committee for the first time, with a vote from Republican senator Bill Cassidy — a fourth Republican. What do you make of that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> As soon as the war began and it became clear Republicans weren’t going to fulfill their constitutional responsibility to bring debate over the war before the Senate, senators Booker, Kaine, and I got together and said: let’s use our prerogatives. There’s a rule that allows us to force a vote on war at a fifty-vote margin, so we decided to do it every week — and we have. In recent weeks, more Republicans have begun to join us, just three or four or five. But as you mentioned, last week we finally crossed the fifty-vote threshold. Now, it’s a procedural vote, so we still have to get to the final resolution, and it would still have to be signed by the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> He would veto it, I’m sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> He would veto it. So you’d ultimately need enough Republicans to override the veto, which sounds pretty unlikely. But it is a sign that as this war goes on and becomes more unpopular, fewer Republicans are willing to stand up and vote for it. We will continue doing this every single week, and maybe — just maybe — the pressure from Republicans will convince the president to end the war, move our troops out of harm’s way, and get about the business of addressing the spiral in costs, which may already be too late to fix. But it won’t be addressed until the war is over and the strait is open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Some of your Senate GOP colleagues have also shown some willingness to push back on the Trump administration’s $1.8 billion so-called anti-weaponization fund, which you have called unbelievably corrupt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to pick the most corrupt thing he has done, but this has to be near the top of the list because it is so brazen. Some of his other schemes involved using his influence to get paid through the back door — that’s what the cryptocurrency schemes are. We’ll never see those payments because they come from foreign dignitaries and CEOs, privately, through crypto exchanges into Trump’s pocket. This is the front door. This is the president just reaching his hand into the Treasury, stealing $1.8 billion and using it for whatever political purposes he deems fit, with no real controls on the account. And once he gets away with it at the IRS, why wouldn’t he do this with every other agency? What he did was sue himself — sue the federal government — and when the court said you can’t sue yourself, he settled out of court and just gave himself the money. I think this is the beginning, not the end, of this scheme. I don’t know yet whether Republicans are really willing to turn on him over it. We may talk about what happened in Texas, but increasingly Republicans are learning over and over that your political career is over if you cross him, and they’ve never been truly willing to stand up for their principles. That said, at the end of last week, the Senate sent everyone home because they didn’t want to vote on a Democratic amendment to stop the $1.8 billion trust fund. We’ll see what happens when we get back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> That is really the question. From where you sit as a U.S. senator, what are you thinking and feeling about this GOP Senate pushback — such as it is? Do you see it continuing? Do you see them willing to go against this president? Last night in Texas demonstrated the president’s continued capacity to pick winners, with his endorsement proving decisive. But you also have someone like Texas senator John Cornyn, who has lost his reelection bid, and a handful of Republicans who are not up for reelection finding their voice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> I don’t want to valorize what happened at the end of last week. Republicans literally sent everyone home because they were scared to vote on an amendment that would make Trump’s $1.8 billion slush fund illegal. Their hope was likely that after a week and a half it would blow over, the news would move on, and their members would be more comfortable voting to back up the president. It is a very small handful of Republicans who ever vote against the president. For the time being, their party is just a cult of personality, and they will never substantively oppose him. Yes, there’s a deeper squabble between the Senate Republican caucus and the president today than there was before — but past is prologue. My guess is they will vote against any efforts to trim his corruption for the foreseeable future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Even the $1 billion for security and other services for the president’s ballroom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> They were intent on putting the ballroom funding in the bill, and it was more the parliamentarian who gave them trouble — questioning whether that could end up in the so-called reconciliation bill, the bill they can pass with fifty votes. No, I think this is a party that is fundamentally corrupt to its bones. You saw it in Texas last night: Donald Trump endorsed Ken Paxton, and Republican voters chose the most corrupt politician in the state as their nominee. I worry that corruption has become so normalized inside the Republican Party — including among the base — that it’s simply going to be the norm going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> President Trump said in his cabinet meeting today that he’s willing to continue the war in Iran, quote, “I don’t care about the midterms” — apparently citing what happened in Texas. What do you think the impact of that is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> The president is being honest: he doesn’t care about people’s financial crisis. He said a few weeks ago that he never thinks about how Americans are doing financially. When he makes decisions like this on war and peace, he doesn’t care what the people want — he’s going to continue on this path. And listen, we don’t know the full story of why Trump has been so resistant to ending this war. His chief negotiators are Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, who have enormous financial interests tied up in the Middle East, particularly with Saudi Arabia, which has been pushing the president to expand and deepen the war, not end it. I do think this is likely another corruption story, in which the president is putting the enrichment of himself and his family ahead of the financial well-being of everyone else. And that’s really the whole story of the last several years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Connecticut senator Chris Murphy about Iran, the Justice Department’s anti-weaponization fund, President Trump’s ballroom, and more. We’ll also talk with him about what he thinks is ailing America. His new book is \u003cem>Crisis of the Common Good\u003c/em>. 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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, May 27 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>America used to value things — youth sports, local businesses and accessible healthcare, for example — simply because they were good for communities. That’s according to Sen. Chris Murphy, who says over the past 50 years the United States has seen a shift away from common goods in favor of profit, disconnection and unhappiness. We speak with the Connecticut Democrat about his new book, “Crisis of the Common Good,” and the values he believes could unite America — or at least the Democratic Party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv>\n\u003cdiv data-test-render-count=\"1\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"group\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"contents\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"group relative relative pb-3\" data-is-streaming=\"false\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"font-claude-response relative leading-[1.65rem] [&_pre>div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"standard-markdown grid-cols-1 grid [&_>_*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown\">\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Welcome to Forum. I’m Mina Kim. Connecticut senator Chris Murphy is regarded as a 2028 Democratic presidential contender. He’s been a vocal critic of the U.S. war in Iran as well as President Trump’s flagrant corruption and its role in undermining democracy. But Murphy says Trump is only a symptom, not the cause, of what ails America. In a new book, he lays out how he thinks we got here and what can be done to end our democratic and ethical unraveling. It’s called \u003cem>Crisis of the Common Good: The Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America\u003c/em>. Senator Murphy, welcome to Forum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Before we get into your book, I want to ask you about the latest national news, including where things stand with the war in Iran. The vague outlines of a peace deal that the Trump administration has suggested is still on the table — despite recent hostilities — is that the Strait of Hormuz would reopen within a month while the U.S. withdraws its forces, and that addressing Iran’s nuclear program would be pushed off until later. Is this a deal you would support?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> I want this war to end as quickly as possible. Every single day it goes on, America gets weaker, we are constantly humiliated, and Iran gets stronger. So I want the war to end, and I will support imperfect deals to make that happen. But let’s be clear about what they’re talking about: essentially returning to the status quo ante — to where things were before hostilities began. There’s also reporting that as part of this agreement, the United States would pay Iran money by releasing sanctions worth potentially billions of dollars. So after all of this devastation to the American economy and the world order, we’re going to pay Iran money so they reopen the strait — which is exactly where we were before the war began. The short answer is yes, I want the war to end and I’m rooting for it. But the outlines of this deal only make clearer what a terrible catastrophe this war has been.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> And it really isn’t a return to the status quo, as you’re laying out. The deal is far more than just imperfect. We now have an emboldened regime in Iran that’s willing to murder its own people, one that could reap billions of dollars in sanctions relief and knows it can weaponize the Strait of Hormuz at any time — with no guarantees that Iran will end its nuclear program or stop using its missiles against its neighbors or Israel. Are you okay with the war ending on these terms? And is there anything that can be done to dilute the potential harm?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> The problem is that if this war continues, we don’t get any closer to our war aims — we get further away. Let’s take Donald Trump’s shifting rationales at face value. He says we started the war to eliminate Iran’s nuclear program, their drone program, their missile program, and their navy. We haven’t done any of that, and we won’t, because those are impossible military tasks. You cannot, through an air campaign alone, eliminate their nuclear capability, their drones, or their missiles. In fact, public reporting suggests they still have seventy percent of their drones and missiles. And while you can take out the big ships in their navy, what closes the Strait of Hormuz is not the big ships — it’s the suicide skiffs and small speedboats that drop mines. None of these goals were achievable through the military campaign they designed. As you said, this regime is now stronger than it was before the war. They murdered a doddering, eighty-year-old Ayatollah who was barely in control of the country, and now there are younger, more provocative, and more lethal leaders in his place. We’re going to come out of this with America looking feckless and Iran potentially having permanent control of the strait. That’s another reported element of this deal — that while the strait will be reopened, Iran and Oman will jointly control which traffic goes through and when. That was never the case before the war began.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> You’ve introduced War Powers resolutions since this war began, to reassert Congress’s authority when it comes to declaring war and using military force. Last week, a resolution advanced out of committee for the first time, with a vote from Republican senator Bill Cassidy — a fourth Republican. What do you make of that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> As soon as the war began and it became clear Republicans weren’t going to fulfill their constitutional responsibility to bring debate over the war before the Senate, senators Booker, Kaine, and I got together and said: let’s use our prerogatives. There’s a rule that allows us to force a vote on war at a fifty-vote margin, so we decided to do it every week — and we have. In recent weeks, more Republicans have begun to join us, just three or four or five. But as you mentioned, last week we finally crossed the fifty-vote threshold. Now, it’s a procedural vote, so we still have to get to the final resolution, and it would still have to be signed by the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> He would veto it, I’m sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> He would veto it. So you’d ultimately need enough Republicans to override the veto, which sounds pretty unlikely. But it is a sign that as this war goes on and becomes more unpopular, fewer Republicans are willing to stand up and vote for it. We will continue doing this every single week, and maybe — just maybe — the pressure from Republicans will convince the president to end the war, move our troops out of harm’s way, and get about the business of addressing the spiral in costs, which may already be too late to fix. But it won’t be addressed until the war is over and the strait is open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Some of your Senate GOP colleagues have also shown some willingness to push back on the Trump administration’s $1.8 billion so-called anti-weaponization fund, which you have called unbelievably corrupt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to pick the most corrupt thing he has done, but this has to be near the top of the list because it is so brazen. Some of his other schemes involved using his influence to get paid through the back door — that’s what the cryptocurrency schemes are. We’ll never see those payments because they come from foreign dignitaries and CEOs, privately, through crypto exchanges into Trump’s pocket. This is the front door. This is the president just reaching his hand into the Treasury, stealing $1.8 billion and using it for whatever political purposes he deems fit, with no real controls on the account. And once he gets away with it at the IRS, why wouldn’t he do this with every other agency? What he did was sue himself — sue the federal government — and when the court said you can’t sue yourself, he settled out of court and just gave himself the money. I think this is the beginning, not the end, of this scheme. I don’t know yet whether Republicans are really willing to turn on him over it. We may talk about what happened in Texas, but increasingly Republicans are learning over and over that your political career is over if you cross him, and they’ve never been truly willing to stand up for their principles. That said, at the end of last week, the Senate sent everyone home because they didn’t want to vote on a Democratic amendment to stop the $1.8 billion trust fund. We’ll see what happens when we get back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> That is really the question. From where you sit as a U.S. senator, what are you thinking and feeling about this GOP Senate pushback — such as it is? Do you see it continuing? Do you see them willing to go against this president? Last night in Texas demonstrated the president’s continued capacity to pick winners, with his endorsement proving decisive. But you also have someone like Texas senator John Cornyn, who has lost his reelection bid, and a handful of Republicans who are not up for reelection finding their voice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> I don’t want to valorize what happened at the end of last week. Republicans literally sent everyone home because they were scared to vote on an amendment that would make Trump’s $1.8 billion slush fund illegal. Their hope was likely that after a week and a half it would blow over, the news would move on, and their members would be more comfortable voting to back up the president. It is a very small handful of Republicans who ever vote against the president. For the time being, their party is just a cult of personality, and they will never substantively oppose him. Yes, there’s a deeper squabble between the Senate Republican caucus and the president today than there was before — but past is prologue. My guess is they will vote against any efforts to trim his corruption for the foreseeable future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Even the $1 billion for security and other services for the president’s ballroom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> They were intent on putting the ballroom funding in the bill, and it was more the parliamentarian who gave them trouble — questioning whether that could end up in the so-called reconciliation bill, the bill they can pass with fifty votes. No, I think this is a party that is fundamentally corrupt to its bones. You saw it in Texas last night: Donald Trump endorsed Ken Paxton, and Republican voters chose the most corrupt politician in the state as their nominee. I worry that corruption has become so normalized inside the Republican Party — including among the base — that it’s simply going to be the norm going forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> President Trump said in his cabinet meeting today that he’s willing to continue the war in Iran, quote, “I don’t care about the midterms” — apparently citing what happened in Texas. What do you think the impact of that is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Chris Murphy:\u003c/strong> The president is being honest: he doesn’t care about people’s financial crisis. He said a few weeks ago that he never thinks about how Americans are doing financially. When he makes decisions like this on war and peace, he doesn’t care what the people want — he’s going to continue on this path. And listen, we don’t know the full story of why Trump has been so resistant to ending this war. His chief negotiators are Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, who have enormous financial interests tied up in the Middle East, particularly with Saudi Arabia, which has been pushing the president to expand and deepen the war, not end it. I do think this is likely another corruption story, in which the president is putting the enrichment of himself and his family ahead of the financial well-being of everyone else. And that’s really the whole story of the last several years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Connecticut senator Chris Murphy about Iran, the Justice Department’s anti-weaponization fund, President Trump’s ballroom, and more. We’ll also talk with him about what he thinks is ailing America. His new book is \u003cem>Crisis of the Common Good\u003c/em>. 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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/YjdZf2uhwn0\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/8kQ0oR7r0Dw\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"bio": "\"Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America\" - Chang is also the author of \"We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation,\" \"Who We Be: The Colorization of America\" and \"Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation\""
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"title": "Latino USA",
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"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
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"source": "American Public Media"
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"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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