window.__IS_SSR__=true
window.__INITIAL_STATE__={
"attachmentsReducer": {
"audio_0": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_0",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background0.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_1": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_1",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background1.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_2": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_2",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background2.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_3": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_3",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background3.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_4": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_4",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background4.jpg"
}
}
},
"placeholder": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "placeholder",
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-800x533.jpg",
"width": 800,
"height": 533,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-768x512.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1536x1024.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1024,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-lrg": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1536x1024.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1024,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-med": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-sm": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-800x533.jpg",
"width": 800,
"height": 533,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xxsmall": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xsmall": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"small": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xlarge": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1920x1280.jpg",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1280,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-32": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 32,
"height": 32,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-50": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 50,
"height": 50,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-64": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 64,
"height": 64,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-96": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 96,
"height": 96,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-128": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 128,
"height": 128,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"detail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 160,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1333
}
}
},
"root-site_21150": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "root-site_21150",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "21150",
"found": true
},
"parent": 0,
"imgSizes": {
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-900x576.gif",
"width": 900,
"mimeType": "image/gif",
"height": 576
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-160x160.gif",
"width": 160,
"mimeType": "image/gif",
"height": 160
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-672x372.gif",
"width": 672,
"mimeType": "image/gif",
"height": 372
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile.gif",
"width": 900,
"height": 900
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-800x800.gif",
"width": 800,
"mimeType": "image/gif",
"height": 800
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile-768x768.gif",
"width": 768,
"mimeType": "image/gif",
"height": 768
}
},
"publishDate": 1654140096,
"modified": 1654140139,
"caption": null,
"description": null,
"title": "forum-logo-900x900tile",
"credit": null,
"status": "inherit",
"altTag": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim & Alexis Madrigal",
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"root-site_21112": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "root-site_21112",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "21112",
"found": true
},
"parent": 19528,
"imgSizes": {
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 576
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-160x84.png",
"width": 160,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 84
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 372
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1.png",
"width": 1200,
"height": 630
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-1020x536.png",
"width": 1020,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 536
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-800x420.png",
"width": 800,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 420
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-768x403.png",
"width": 768,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 403
}
},
"publishDate": 1652823730,
"modified": 1654139956,
"caption": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Thumbnail Wordpress 1200x630",
"credit": null,
"status": "inherit",
"altTag": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim & Alexis Madrigal",
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"root-site_21111": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "root-site_21111",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "21111",
"found": true
},
"parent": 19528,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-160x80.png",
"width": 160,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 80
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 372
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress.png",
"width": 1024,
"height": 512
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1020x510.png",
"width": 1020,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 510
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-800x400.png",
"width": 800,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 400
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-768x384.png",
"width": 768,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 384
}
},
"publishDate": 1652813224,
"modified": 1654139948,
"caption": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Thumbnail Wordpress",
"credit": null,
"status": "inherit",
"altTag": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim & Alexis Madrigal",
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101913838": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101913838",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913838",
"found": true
},
"title": "Tropical Storm Hilary Brings Wind And Heavy Rain To Southern California",
"publishDate": 1778711830,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101913837,
"modified": 1778711855,
"caption": "PALM DESERT, CALIFORNIA - AUGUST 20: Palms are hit by strong wind and rain from Tropical Storm Hilary in the deserts of Southern California on August 20, 2023 in Palm Desert, California. More than 40 million people are under the first-ever Tropical Storm Warning issued for the area. A warming of ocean temperatures off Mexico caused by the combination rising temperatures and of the ocean phenomenon dubbed El Niño brought about the rare weather system, according to the National Weather Service.",
"credit": "David McNew/Getty Images",
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-2000x1334.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1334,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-2000x1334.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1334,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-768x512.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-1536x1025.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1025,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"2048x2048": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-2048x1366.jpg",
"width": 2048,
"height": 1366,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-2000x1334.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1334,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/GettyImages-1612698961-scaled.jpg",
"width": 2560,
"height": 1708
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101913835": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101913835",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913835",
"found": true
},
"title": "plastic",
"publishDate": 1778711457,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101913834,
"modified": 1778711457,
"caption": null,
"credit": null,
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic-160x107.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic-768x512.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic-1536x1023.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1023,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/plastic.png",
"width": 1600,
"height": 1066
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101913825": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101913825",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913825",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1778620791,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101913824,
"modified": 1778620861,
"caption": null,
"credit": "Courtesy of Hachette Book Group",
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU-768x512.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU-1536x1023.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1023,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/05/BALLOU.jpg",
"width": 1600,
"height": 1066
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101911827": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101911827",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911827",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1761752811,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101911792,
"modified": 1761752834,
"caption": null,
"credit": null,
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing-160x90.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 90,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing-768x432.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 432,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing-1536x864.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 864,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/IMG_5710housing.png",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101911607": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101911607",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911607",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1760396790,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101911606,
"modified": 1760397002,
"caption": "Maritza Salinas hugs her daughter, Ranea, 4, at a playground in San Francisco on July 22, 2025. Salinas has experienced homelessness since leaving an abusive relationship in 2022. For the past several years, she and her children have been in and out of shelters.",
"credit": null,
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug-160x90.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 90,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug-768x432.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 432,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug-1536x864.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 864,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/hug.png",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101911398": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101911398",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911398",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1759182657,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101911397,
"modified": 1759182676,
"caption": null,
"credit": "fhm/Getty Images",
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless-160x90.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 90,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless-768x432.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 432,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless-1536x864.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 864,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/homeless.png",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101894735": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101894735",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101894735",
"found": true
},
"parent": 2010101894733,
"imgSizes": {
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 576
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-160x90.jpg",
"width": 160,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 90
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 372
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked.jpg",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
},
"large": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-1020x574.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 574
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-1536x864.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 864
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-800x450.jpg",
"width": 800,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 450
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/43/2023/10/Spoooked-768x432.jpg",
"width": 768,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg",
"height": 432
}
},
"publishDate": 1697154891,
"modified": 1697154972,
"caption": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Spoooked",
"credit": "Courtesy of Spooked",
"status": "inherit",
"altTag": null,
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101911503": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101911503",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911503",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1759790575,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101911494,
"modified": 1759790597,
"caption": null,
"credit": "Studio One-One/Getty Images",
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion-160x90.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 90,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion-768x432.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 432,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion-1536x864.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 864,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/10/secesion.png",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"forum_2010101911273": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "forum_2010101911273",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911273",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1758061688,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 2010101911272,
"modified": 1758063604,
"caption": "A mural of Bruce Lee is seen in San Francisco's Chinatown at the corner of Grant Avenue and Commercial Street. Lee was born in Chinatown in 1940.",
"credit": "piola666/Getty Images",
"altTag": null,
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural-160x90.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 90,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural-768x432.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 432,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural-1536x864.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 864,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/09/bruceleemural.png",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1080
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
}
},
"audioPlayerReducer": {
"postId": "stream_live",
"isPaused": true,
"isPlaying": false,
"pfsActive": false,
"pledgeModalIsOpen": true,
"playerDrawerIsOpen": false
},
"authorsReducer": {
"minakim": {
"type": "authors",
"id": "243",
"meta": {
"index": "authors_1716337520",
"id": "243",
"found": true
},
"name": "Mina Kim",
"firstName": "Mina",
"lastName": "Kim",
"slug": "minakim",
"email": "mkim@kqed.org",
"display_author_email": false,
"staff_mastheads": [
"news"
],
"title": "Host, Forum",
"bio": "Mina Kim is host of the 10 a.m. statewide hour of Forum; a live daily talk show for curious Californians on issues that matter to the state and nation, with a particular emphasis on race and equity.\r\n\r\nBefore joining the Forum team, Mina was KQED’s evening news anchor, and health reporter for The California Report. Her award-winning work has included natural disasters in Napa and gun violence in Oakland. Mina grew up in St. John’s, Newfoundland.",
"avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twitter": "mkimreporter",
"facebook": null,
"instagram": null,
"linkedin": null,
"sites": [
{
"site": "news",
"roles": [
"contributor"
]
},
{
"site": "stateofhealth",
"roles": [
"author"
]
},
{
"site": "forum",
"roles": [
"editor"
]
}
],
"headData": {
"title": "Mina Kim | KQED",
"description": "Host, Forum",
"ogImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/145ce657a2d08cb86d93686beb958982?s=600&d=blank&r=g"
},
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/author/minakim"
},
"amadrigal": {
"type": "authors",
"id": "11757",
"meta": {
"index": "authors_1716337520",
"id": "11757",
"found": true
},
"name": "Alexis Madrigal",
"firstName": "Alexis",
"lastName": "Madrigal",
"slug": "amadrigal",
"email": "amadrigal@kqed.org",
"display_author_email": true,
"staff_mastheads": [],
"title": "Co-Host Forum",
"bio": "Alexis Madrigal is the co-host of Forum. He is also a contributing writer at \u003cem>The Atlantic \u003c/em>and the co-founder of the COVID Tracking Project. He's the creator of the podcast, \u003cem>Containers\u003c/em>, and has been a staff writer at \u003cem>Wired. \u003c/em>He was a visiting scholar at UC Berkeley's Information School, and is working on a book about Oakland and the Bay Area's revolutionary ideas.",
"avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/200d13dd6cebef55bf04327dec901b3d?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twitter": "alexismadrigal",
"facebook": null,
"instagram": null,
"linkedin": null,
"sites": [
{
"site": "news",
"roles": [
"editor"
]
},
{
"site": "forum",
"roles": [
"editor"
]
}
],
"headData": {
"title": "Alexis Madrigal | KQED",
"description": "Co-Host Forum",
"ogImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/200d13dd6cebef55bf04327dec901b3d?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/200d13dd6cebef55bf04327dec901b3d?s=600&d=blank&r=g"
},
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/author/amadrigal"
}
},
"breakingNewsReducer": {},
"pagesReducer": {
"root-site_forum-podcasts": {
"type": "pages",
"id": "root-site_19528",
"meta": {
"index": "pages_1716337520",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "19528",
"score": 0
},
"slug": "forum-podcasts",
"title": "Forum",
"headTitle": "Forum | KQED",
"pagePath": "forum-podcasts",
"pageMeta": {
"sticky": false,
"WpPageTemplate": "page-podcast",
"adSlotOverride": "kqed300x250_forum",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include"
},
"headData": {
"title": "Forum - Dive into Local, State, National and World Issues | KQED",
"description": "Join Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal as they host a live, call-in program that inform, challenge and unify listeners by diving into politics, science, entertainment and the arts.",
"ogTitle": "Listen to Forum",
"ogDescription": "KQED's live call-in radio program presents balanced discussions of local, state, national, and world issues as well as in-depth interviews with leading figures in politics, science, entertainment, and the arts.",
"ogImgId": "root-site_21112",
"twTitle": "Listen to Forum",
"twDescription": "KQED's live call-in radio program presents balanced discussions of local, state, national, and world issues as well as in-depth interviews with leading figures in politics, science, entertainment, and the arts.",
"twImgId": "root-site_21111",
"socialTitle": "Forum - Dive into Local, State, National and World Issues | KQED",
"socialDescription": "Join Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal as they host a live, call-in program that inform, challenge and unify listeners by diving into politics, science, entertainment and the arts.",
"canonicalUrl": "https://www.kqed.org/forum",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "PodcastSeries",
"name": "Forum",
"description": "Join Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal as they host a live, call-in program that inform, challenge and unify listeners by diving into politics, science, entertainment and the arts.",
"url": "https://www.kqed.org/forum",
"image": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile.gif ",
"inLanguage": "en-US",
"publisher": {
"@type": "NewsMediaOrganization",
"@id": "https://www.kqed.org/#organization",
"name": "KQED",
"logo": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png",
"url": "https://www.kqed.org",
"sameAs": [
"https://www.facebook.com/KQED",
"https://twitter.com/KQED",
"https://www.instagram.com/kqed/",
"https://www.tiktok.com/@kqedofficial",
"https://www.linkedin.com/company/kqed",
"https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeC0IOo7i1P_61zVUWbJ4nw"
]
}
},
"imageData": {
"ogImageSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1200x630-1-1020x536.png",
"width": 1020,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 536
},
"twImageSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Thumbnail-Wordpress-1020x510.png",
"width": 1020,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 510
},
"twitterCard": "summary_large_image"
}
},
"labelTerm": {
"site": ""
},
"publishDate": 1622053173,
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [
{
"blockName": "kqed/hero",
"attrs": {
"titleLayout": "svg",
"titleSVG": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Forum-Logotype@2x.png",
"backgroundImageAlt": "Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
"backgroundImageUrl": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/05/Forum_background.png",
"blurb": "\u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> tells remarkable and true stories about who we are and where we live. In the first hour, Alexis Madrigal convenes the diverse voices of the Bay Area, before turning to Mina Kim for the second hour to chronicle and center Californians’ experience. In an increasingly divided world, Mina and Alexis host conversations that inform, challenge and unify listeners with big ideas and different viewpoints.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Want to call/submit your comments during our live Forum program Mon-Fri, 9am-11am? We’d love to hear from you! Please dial 866.SF.FORUM or (866) 733-6786, email \u003ca href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%40kqedforum\">tweet\u003c/a>, post on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQEDForum/\">Facebook\u003c/a>, or join KQED’s \u003ca href=\"http://discord.gg/kqed\">Discord community\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Looking for a different way to engage with KQED? Join us on Discord, a social media platform focused on community (not clicks). Check out \u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mjcmsgogm52AIrc9rRw4c1ZiAS8w8vqFG7dGwH-7QQ4/edit\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">our guide to joining Forum discussions on Discord\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"http://discord.gg/kqed\">\u003cimg class=\"wp-image-22607\" style=\"width: 150px\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2023/08/discord-logo-blue.png\" alt=\"Discord Logo\">\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Our Discord server remains one of the more innovative ways we connect with listeners, offering a lively space for civic engagement, conversation, and direct interaction between KQED audiences and the journalists behind our radio and podcast programs. \u003ca href=\"http://discord.gg/kqed\">\u003cem>KQED's\u003c/em> digital community\u003c/a> continues to grow, and we'd love to have you as part of it.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Funding for Forum is provided by The Jenerosity Foundation and Maria Manetti Shrem.\u003cbr>\n\n",
"blurbImageAlt": "Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
"blurbImageUrl": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/06/forum-logo-900x900tile.gif ",
"previewID": "",
"hasSponsorLogo": false
},
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/post-list",
"attrs": {
"layout": "cardsRecent",
"query": "posts/forum?&queryId=870ab71588",
"title": "All Forum Episodes",
"useSSR": true,
"seeMore": true,
"sizeBase": 6,
"sizeSeeMore": 6
},
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/post-list",
"attrs": {
"layout": "cardsRecent",
"query": "posts/forum?series=in-search-of-home&queryId=855a345d62",
"title": "In Search Of Home",
"useSSR": true,
"seeMore": true,
"sizeBase": 12,
"sizeSeeMore": 12
},
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/post-list",
"attrs": {
"layout": "cardsRecent",
"query": "posts/forum?tag=forum-on-youtube&queryId=4089d66d0c",
"title": "Forum on YouTube",
"useSSR": true,
"seeMore": true,
"sizeBase": 6,
"sizeSeeMore": 6
},
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/section",
"attrs": {
"heading": ""
},
"innerHTML": "\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n"
],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies",
"attrs": {
"heading": "The Team",
"bioType": "white"
},
"innerHTML": "\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\u003c/div>\n"
],
"innerBlocks": [
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/mkim-526x526-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Mina Kim",
"position": "Co-Host, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/minakim\">Mina Kim\u003c/a> is host of the statewide hour of KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>; a live, daily, call-in talk show. Through intimate and informative conversations, Mina connects the state’s many residents, and illuminates the issues affecting California and the nation. Before joining \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, Mina was KQED’s evening news anchor, and health reporter for \u003cem>The California Report\u003c/em>. Her award-winning work has included natural disasters in Napa and gun violence in Oakland. At the University of Michigan she studied the intersection of gender, race and class. She was a first grade teacher through Teach For America, and ran a mentorship program for students aspiring to be the first in their families to go to college. She grew up in St. John’s, Newfoundland.",
"link": "/author/mkim"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/amadrigal-556x556-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Alexis Madrigal",
"position": "Co-Host, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/amadrigal\">Alexis Madrigal\u003c/a> is the co-host of \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. He is also a contributing writer at \u003cem>The Atlantic \u003c/em>and the co-founder of the COVID Tracking Project. He's the creator of the podcast, \u003cem>Containers\u003c/em>, and has been a staff writer at \u003cem>Wired. \u003c/em>He was a visiting scholar at UC Berkeley's Information School, and is working on a book about Oakland and the Bay Area's revolutionary ideas.",
"link": "/author/amadrigal"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/dbringer-765x765-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Danny Bringer",
"position": "Engineer, Forum",
"bio": "Danny Bringer has worked in Radio since 1987 and has been with KQED SINCE 1994. He has been the \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> Engineer since 2001. Danny grew up in the Bay Area and currently lives in San Ramon. He loves working with the \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> team and delivering the \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> sound to our listeners. When he isn't mixing sound he loves to run Ultra Marathons. ",
"link": ""
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/sbritton-1920x1920-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Susan Britton",
"position": "Lead Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/sbritton\">Susan Britton\u003c/a> \u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>is the lead producer of \u003cem>Forum \u003c/em>with Mina Kim. She's been with \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> since 2012, beginning as an on-call producer, and she was a longtime contributor to KALW. She's a graduate of Columbia Law School and Yale College.",
"link": "/author/sbritton"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/jcampbell-1920x1920-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Judy Campbell",
"position": "Senior Editor, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/jcampbell\">Judy Campbell\u003c/a> is the senior editor of \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> with host Alexis Madrigal. She hosted and produced the KQED podcast \u003cem>The Leap\u003c/em>, about people making dramatic, risky changes. Previously, Judy was a KQED reporter, focusing on criminal justice and prison issues.",
"link": "/author/jcampbell"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/02/260129-FrancescaFenzi-OffWhite-BL_qed-e1771263632769.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Francesca Fenzi",
"position": "Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ffenzi\">Francesca Fenzi\u003c/a> is a journalist and audio producer focused on making news media as transparent, participatory, and community-driven as possible. Since joining KQED's \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> team in 2022, she's produced both local and statewide hours of the live public affairs show, and has reported other radio, podcast, and digital content for KQED News. She previously managed \u003ca href=\"https://discord.gg/kqed\">KQED's digital community on Discord\u003c/a> – connecting listeners with journalists, subject matter experts, and each other online.",
"link": "https://www.kqed.org/author/ffenzi"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/10/MarlenaJackson-Retondo_headshot.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Marlena Jackson-Retondo",
"position": "Engagement Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/mjacksonretondo\">Marlena Jackson-Retondo\u003c/a> is the engagement producer for KQED's Forum and Mindshift. Prior to joining the team in 2022, Marlena was an intern with KQED's Digital News Engagement team. She grew up in the Bay Area.",
"link": "https://www.kqed.org/author/mjacksonretondo"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/10/JenniferNg_headhsot.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Jennifer Ng",
"position": "On-call Producer, Forum",
"bio": "Jennifer Ng joined Forum in 2021 as an intern and became an on-call producer in 2022. She returned to San Francisco after finishing her bachelor's degree in environmental science at the University of Portland.",
"link": ""
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Mark-Nieto-500x500-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Mark Nieto",
"position": "Producer, Forum",
"bio": "Mark Nieto is a producer for \u003cem>Forum \u003c/em>with Mina Kim\u003cem>.\u003c/em> He joined KQED in 2023. A native of California, Mark received his M.A. in research architecture from Goldsmiths University of London in 2021 and his B.A. in film from Loyola Marymount University. Before coming to KQED, Mark worked on the podcasts \u003cem>The Times \u003c/em>and \u003cem>Plot of Land \u003c/em>and was previously an on-air host at KXLU\u003cem>.\u003c/em>",
"link": ""
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/csmith-1102x1102-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Caroline Smith",
"position": "Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/csmith\">Caroline Smith\u003c/a> is a producer for \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. Smith joined the team in 2019 as an intern and became an on-call producer later that year. From the Bay Area, Smith graduated with a B.A. in Rhetoric from UC Berkeley and is an alumnus of \u003cem>The Daily Californian\u003c/em>.",
"link": "/author/csmith"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/btorres-1920x1920-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Blanca Torres",
"position": "Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/btorres\">Blanca Torres\u003c/a> \u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>joined KQED in January of 2020 after 16 years of working as a newspaper reporter mostly covering business. She is also a member and former board member for the National Association of Hispanic Journalists. A native of the Pacific Northwest, Blanca earned her bachelor's degree from Vanderbilt University in Nashville and a master's in fine arts in creative writing at Mills College. She lives in the East Bay with her family.",
"link": "/author/btorres"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2021/06/gwon-600x600-1.jpg",
"mediaAlt": "\"\"",
"name": "Grace Won",
"position": "Producer, Forum",
"bio": "\u003ca href=\"/author/gwon\">Grace Won\u003c/a> has been a \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> producer since 2019. Prior to joining KQED, Grace was a litigator, and worked on a variety of pro bono prisoner cases, including one that resulted in overturning a client's death penalty sentence on constitutional grounds. She holds a law degree from Georgetown University Law Center, an M.A. in English from University College London and a B.A. in American history and East Asian studies from Harvard University.",
"link": "/author/gwon"
},
"innerBlocks": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": []
}
]
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/programs",
"attrs": {
"title": "We Also Recommend",
"programIDs": [
"baycurious",
"rightnowish",
"politicalbreakdown",
"soldout",
"onourwatch",
"thebay"
]
},
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "kqed/ad",
"attrs": [],
"innerHTML": "",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": []
},
{
"blockName": "core/paragraph",
"attrs": [],
"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"
],
"innerBlocks": []
}
],
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1778003803,
"format": "standard",
"path": "/forum",
"redirect": {
"type": "internal",
"url": "/forum"
},
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"featImg": "root-site_21150",
"label": "root-site",
"isLoading": false
}
},
"postsReducer": {
"stream_live": {
"type": "live",
"id": "stream_live",
"audioUrl": "https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio",
"title": "Live Stream",
"excerpt": "Live Stream information currently unavailable.",
"link": "/radio",
"featImg": "",
"label": {
"name": "KQED Live",
"link": "/"
}
},
"stream_kqedNewscast": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "stream_kqedNewscast",
"audioUrl": "https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1",
"title": "KQED Newscast",
"featImg": "",
"label": {
"name": "88.5 FM",
"link": "/"
}
},
"forum_2010101913837": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101913837",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913837",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1778778000000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "a-monster-el-nino-is-brewing-in-the-pacific",
"title": "A 'Monster' El Niño Is Brewing in the Pacific",
"publishDate": 1778711894,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "A ‘Monster’ El Niño Is Brewing in the Pacific | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 14 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An El Niño is starting to form in the tropical Pacific Ocean, and some forecasters say it could be a “monster,” the most powerful in 150 years. The weather system could trigger potentially catastrophic heat waves, flooding and drought, with effects we could start to feel as early as this summer. We’ll talk to science journalists about how this brewing El Niño could test our readiness for the chaos of a warmer climate, and answer your questions about its potential impacts here in California and beyond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> From KQED. Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Mina Kim. Perhaps you’ve seen the headlines warning that an El Niño is forming in the Pacific — the climate pattern with the potential to cause disastrous weather events across the globe, including extreme heat and drought in some places and record rainfall and flooding in others. Forecasters are warning this emerging El Niño could be historically strong, a super El Niño, maybe even a super duper one. This hour, we look at what’s driving those concerns and why some science writers think this El Niño could bring climate change back to the forefront of politics and media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Listeners, what do you think? Joining me is David Wallace-Wells, science writer and essayist for the New York Times opinion section. David, thanks so much for being with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Also, Bill McKibben is here, cofounder of the climate activism group Third Act and author of more than twenty books, including The End of Nature. Bill, glad to have you on \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Well, a pleasure to be with you and with David.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Thank you. And David, turning to you — most of us have heard of El Niño, but only have a sort of vague idea of what that means. Can you tell us what an El Niño is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> It’s a climatic event that happens every few years in which, as you mentioned at the top, there’s a swelling up of hot water in the Pacific, which changes global temperature patterns and affects a lot of what are called — somewhat mysteriously to normies like us — teleconnections around the world, changing weather patterns, disrupting familiar rhythms of planting seasons and temperature, and generally boosting global temperatures. In some cases, the effects may be to increase the likelihood of rainfall or flooding. In others, the opposite — drought. But in general, it’s a disruption from the sort of expected baseline of weather, and it comes with a big boost of global temperature rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Bill, what would you add with regard to what it has the potential to do? I’m hearing David mention rain, and I feel like at least for California, El Niños do seem to be associated with a lot more rainfall here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Yes. California often gets remarkable rainfall. 1997-98 was one of the last really severe El Niños, and that’s what happened in California that year. The thing to understand, though — and as David exactly points out, this is a natural and recurring cycle — the reason that we’re so worried now is because it comes on top of the ever-mounting temperature due to climate change, which means that each time we get one of these El Niños, the planet sets a new temperature record. There’s very little doubt that maybe 2026, almost certainly 2027, will be the hottest year ever recorded in human history. That means humans will be dealing with temperatures that humans have literally not dealt with before. Expect more of the bedlam and chaos that now comes with each El Niño. Expect it to be bigger and more chaotic, and expect even more damage to really deep physical systems on this planet — the jet stream, the Gulf Stream, the stability of the great glaciers of the north and the south.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Wow. So tell me what meteorologists and climate scientists are seeing and tracking right now. I understand what you’re saying with regard to El Niños generally getting worse in recent decades because they’re happening on top of warmer climate baselines. But what’s actually happening with this one specifically that they’re pointing to and saying this one could be really, really strong?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> What people are measuring is how much warmth is showing up in the surface layers of the Pacific as this warm water upwells. And one of the things that they’ve been watching is the speed of the winds that are pushing it out of the Pacific into the rest of the planet. And those things are very high right now. There was a new set of predictions earlier today from NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and they joined with pretty much every other forecaster to predict that not only would there be an El Niño beginning this summer, but it was likely to be a very strong one. You know, people are writing headlines about Godzilla El Niños and on and on. But suffice it to say, no one knows for sure exactly how it will break, but at the moment it’s looking like a very, very powerful event. And our planet is now so deep into the climate crisis that these events have to be taken with the utmost seriousness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Let me invite listeners into the conversation. What questions do you have about this potential monster El Niño that’s being described? And what do you remember about past El Niños? We’ve certainly felt them here in California, as many feel them across the globe. You can tell us by emailing \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, finding us on Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, or by calling 866-733-6786. Again, 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, David, people are comparing this — and you wrote about this — to an El Niño that happened a hundred and fifty years ago. What happened in 1877?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> A really bad El Niño happened in 1877, which in many ways changed the shape of the entire planet and the human lives that were being conducted on it. There have been a couple of other roughly equivalent super El Niños over the last couple of decades — there was one in 2015-2016, which gave a huge boost to global temperatures. But that 1877-1878 one really stands out for the amount of human suffering that it caused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And there are a lot of reasons for that. The story is not narrowly a climatic story. It’s not as though, out of the blue against a backdrop in which everything was fine and stable and everybody was prosperous and healthy, an El Niño arrived and killed many millions of people. But there were probably tens of millions of deaths as a result of the famines that came out of the droughts. Those happened all around the world. I mentioned the phrase teleconnections earlier, and while it’s easy — or maybe easier — to understand how the arrival of great warmth in the Pacific might affect the climate of Peru or California, it’s maybe a little trickier to understand how it’s affecting the crop season and the chance of crop failure across sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, and China. But these systems do have the power to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And in the late nineteenth century, they created an awful lot of problems. They were destabilizing to states and communities in Egypt, in South Asia, and in China, and the world map was really redrawn as a result. It was a time in which those kinds of impacts were made considerably worse by the presence of indifferent or even hostile colonial forces in many of those parts of the world. But those colonial forces also took the opportunity to somewhat double down on their claims and impose themselves more ruthlessly on local populations, which meant that both many more people died and many fell sick in the aftermath of these famines than would have in a more charitably governed alternate universe. And the result in the decades ahead was that the colonialism of the mid-nineteenth century became the more cutthroat colonialism of the late nineteenth century. The consequences for the global south continue to this day — you can trace back a lot of global suffering to those impacts a hundred and fifty years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Now, in 2026 or 2027, we’re living in a very different world than in 1877 or 1878. And I don’t want to suggest that because this El Niño is as intense as that one, it means we could have fifty million deaths from famine. I think that’s quite unlikely. But the basic lesson is that these forces interact with one another, that climatic conditions push human civilization into some amount of disarray and disorder. And the degree to which we’re able to cope with that and protect the most vulnerable among us is a test for our political economies as much as it is for our weather forecasting. We will see in the next eighteen months whether we’re capable of passing such a test, at least to the standards that people like the three of us might hope to meet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Yeah. I would just add that it turns out to be a bad year to have launched a war in the Middle East that, among other things, is screwing up the fertilizer supply around the planet. Probably the last thing we needed this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So do you think, Bill, that the 1877 El Niño is a good and appropriate comparison to what we could get?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Well, it’s probably a reasonable comparison physically. But David’s right — we should be able to deal with this. Among other things, people in the 1870s had no idea what was happening to them, whereas in this case, scientists from across the planet have given us timely warning that we should be using to prepare for what’s ahead. Instead — and I don’t need to belabor the fact — our government’s been busy shutting down weather monitors, deprioritizing, letting people go at FEMA, and so on. So we’re not doing a great job of heeding the wonderful warning that science has been able to provide us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Science, by the way — and I’ll just say this in passing — has some roots in California. It was the same year, in the late 1950s, the International Geophysical Year, that the San Diego scientist Charles Keeling put the monitor up on Mauna Loa to track CO2 in the atmosphere, that a UCLA scientist named Jacob Bjerknes was able to show that what had long been thought of as a kind of local phenomenon in Peru — understood by the anchovy fishermen off their coast — in fact extended many thousands of miles into the Pacific. So California has a noble part in the noble story of understanding these things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> And while the science certainly is part of what makes us more capable of responding to these impacts and threats, I would just emphasize that we’re already at a level of hunger that’s twice what it was in 2019. We’re seeing rising levels of violence all around the world. And so even though we have the capacity to do much better in response to these threats, we’re already backsliding in ways that are quite worrisome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> It’s not guaranteed, for sure. David Wallace-Wells is with us, along with Bill McKibben — both environmental writers. David Wallace-Wells is also an essayist for the New York Times opinion section. Bill McKibben is cofounder of the climate activism group Third Act. We’ll have more with them and with you listeners after the break. I’m Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We’ll talk to science journalists about how this brewing El Niño could test our readiness for the chaos of a warmer climate, and answer your questions about its potential impacts here in California and beyond.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1778786894,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 4,
"wordCount": 2132
},
"headData": {
"title": "A 'Monster' El Niño Is Brewing in the Pacific | KQED",
"description": "We’ll talk to science journalists about how this brewing El Niño could test our readiness for the chaos of a warmer climate, and answer your questions about its potential impacts here in California and beyond.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "A 'Monster' El Niño Is Brewing in the Pacific",
"datePublished": "2026-05-13T15:38:14-07:00",
"dateModified": "2026-05-14T12:28:14-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2308412181.mp3?updated=1778786580",
"airdate": 1778778000,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "David Wallace-Wells",
"bio": "science writer and essayist, The New York Times Opinion"
},
{
"name": "Bill McKibben",
"bio": "co-founder, climate activism group Third Act; author of more than 20 books, including \"The End of Nature\""
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101913837/a-monster-el-nino-is-brewing-in-the-pacific",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 14 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An El Niño is starting to form in the tropical Pacific Ocean, and some forecasters say it could be a “monster,” the most powerful in 150 years. The weather system could trigger potentially catastrophic heat waves, flooding and drought, with effects we could start to feel as early as this summer. We’ll talk to science journalists about how this brewing El Niño could test our readiness for the chaos of a warmer climate, and answer your questions about its potential impacts here in California and beyond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> From KQED. Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Mina Kim. Perhaps you’ve seen the headlines warning that an El Niño is forming in the Pacific — the climate pattern with the potential to cause disastrous weather events across the globe, including extreme heat and drought in some places and record rainfall and flooding in others. Forecasters are warning this emerging El Niño could be historically strong, a super El Niño, maybe even a super duper one. This hour, we look at what’s driving those concerns and why some science writers think this El Niño could bring climate change back to the forefront of politics and media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Listeners, what do you think? Joining me is David Wallace-Wells, science writer and essayist for the New York Times opinion section. David, thanks so much for being with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Also, Bill McKibben is here, cofounder of the climate activism group Third Act and author of more than twenty books, including The End of Nature. Bill, glad to have you on \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Well, a pleasure to be with you and with David.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Thank you. And David, turning to you — most of us have heard of El Niño, but only have a sort of vague idea of what that means. Can you tell us what an El Niño is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> It’s a climatic event that happens every few years in which, as you mentioned at the top, there’s a swelling up of hot water in the Pacific, which changes global temperature patterns and affects a lot of what are called — somewhat mysteriously to normies like us — teleconnections around the world, changing weather patterns, disrupting familiar rhythms of planting seasons and temperature, and generally boosting global temperatures. In some cases, the effects may be to increase the likelihood of rainfall or flooding. In others, the opposite — drought. But in general, it’s a disruption from the sort of expected baseline of weather, and it comes with a big boost of global temperature rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Bill, what would you add with regard to what it has the potential to do? I’m hearing David mention rain, and I feel like at least for California, El Niños do seem to be associated with a lot more rainfall here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Yes. California often gets remarkable rainfall. 1997-98 was one of the last really severe El Niños, and that’s what happened in California that year. The thing to understand, though — and as David exactly points out, this is a natural and recurring cycle — the reason that we’re so worried now is because it comes on top of the ever-mounting temperature due to climate change, which means that each time we get one of these El Niños, the planet sets a new temperature record. There’s very little doubt that maybe 2026, almost certainly 2027, will be the hottest year ever recorded in human history. That means humans will be dealing with temperatures that humans have literally not dealt with before. Expect more of the bedlam and chaos that now comes with each El Niño. Expect it to be bigger and more chaotic, and expect even more damage to really deep physical systems on this planet — the jet stream, the Gulf Stream, the stability of the great glaciers of the north and the south.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Wow. So tell me what meteorologists and climate scientists are seeing and tracking right now. I understand what you’re saying with regard to El Niños generally getting worse in recent decades because they’re happening on top of warmer climate baselines. But what’s actually happening with this one specifically that they’re pointing to and saying this one could be really, really strong?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> What people are measuring is how much warmth is showing up in the surface layers of the Pacific as this warm water upwells. And one of the things that they’ve been watching is the speed of the winds that are pushing it out of the Pacific into the rest of the planet. And those things are very high right now. There was a new set of predictions earlier today from NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and they joined with pretty much every other forecaster to predict that not only would there be an El Niño beginning this summer, but it was likely to be a very strong one. You know, people are writing headlines about Godzilla El Niños and on and on. But suffice it to say, no one knows for sure exactly how it will break, but at the moment it’s looking like a very, very powerful event. And our planet is now so deep into the climate crisis that these events have to be taken with the utmost seriousness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Let me invite listeners into the conversation. What questions do you have about this potential monster El Niño that’s being described? And what do you remember about past El Niños? We’ve certainly felt them here in California, as many feel them across the globe. You can tell us by emailing \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, finding us on Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, or by calling 866-733-6786. Again, 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, David, people are comparing this — and you wrote about this — to an El Niño that happened a hundred and fifty years ago. What happened in 1877?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> A really bad El Niño happened in 1877, which in many ways changed the shape of the entire planet and the human lives that were being conducted on it. There have been a couple of other roughly equivalent super El Niños over the last couple of decades — there was one in 2015-2016, which gave a huge boost to global temperatures. But that 1877-1878 one really stands out for the amount of human suffering that it caused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And there are a lot of reasons for that. The story is not narrowly a climatic story. It’s not as though, out of the blue against a backdrop in which everything was fine and stable and everybody was prosperous and healthy, an El Niño arrived and killed many millions of people. But there were probably tens of millions of deaths as a result of the famines that came out of the droughts. Those happened all around the world. I mentioned the phrase teleconnections earlier, and while it’s easy — or maybe easier — to understand how the arrival of great warmth in the Pacific might affect the climate of Peru or California, it’s maybe a little trickier to understand how it’s affecting the crop season and the chance of crop failure across sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, and China. But these systems do have the power to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And in the late nineteenth century, they created an awful lot of problems. They were destabilizing to states and communities in Egypt, in South Asia, and in China, and the world map was really redrawn as a result. It was a time in which those kinds of impacts were made considerably worse by the presence of indifferent or even hostile colonial forces in many of those parts of the world. But those colonial forces also took the opportunity to somewhat double down on their claims and impose themselves more ruthlessly on local populations, which meant that both many more people died and many fell sick in the aftermath of these famines than would have in a more charitably governed alternate universe. And the result in the decades ahead was that the colonialism of the mid-nineteenth century became the more cutthroat colonialism of the late nineteenth century. The consequences for the global south continue to this day — you can trace back a lot of global suffering to those impacts a hundred and fifty years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Now, in 2026 or 2027, we’re living in a very different world than in 1877 or 1878. And I don’t want to suggest that because this El Niño is as intense as that one, it means we could have fifty million deaths from famine. I think that’s quite unlikely. But the basic lesson is that these forces interact with one another, that climatic conditions push human civilization into some amount of disarray and disorder. And the degree to which we’re able to cope with that and protect the most vulnerable among us is a test for our political economies as much as it is for our weather forecasting. We will see in the next eighteen months whether we’re capable of passing such a test, at least to the standards that people like the three of us might hope to meet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Yeah. I would just add that it turns out to be a bad year to have launched a war in the Middle East that, among other things, is screwing up the fertilizer supply around the planet. Probably the last thing we needed this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So do you think, Bill, that the 1877 El Niño is a good and appropriate comparison to what we could get?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Bill McKibben:\u003c/strong> Well, it’s probably a reasonable comparison physically. But David’s right — we should be able to deal with this. Among other things, people in the 1870s had no idea what was happening to them, whereas in this case, scientists from across the planet have given us timely warning that we should be using to prepare for what’s ahead. Instead — and I don’t need to belabor the fact — our government’s been busy shutting down weather monitors, deprioritizing, letting people go at FEMA, and so on. So we’re not doing a great job of heeding the wonderful warning that science has been able to provide us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">Science, by the way — and I’ll just say this in passing — has some roots in California. It was the same year, in the late 1950s, the International Geophysical Year, that the San Diego scientist Charles Keeling put the monitor up on Mauna Loa to track CO2 in the atmosphere, that a UCLA scientist named Jacob Bjerknes was able to show that what had long been thought of as a kind of local phenomenon in Peru — understood by the anchovy fishermen off their coast — in fact extended many thousands of miles into the Pacific. So California has a noble part in the noble story of understanding these things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>David Wallace-Wells:\u003c/strong> And while the science certainly is part of what makes us more capable of responding to these impacts and threats, I would just emphasize that we’re already at a level of hunger that’s twice what it was in 2019. We’re seeing rising levels of violence all around the world. And so even though we have the capacity to do much better in response to these threats, we’re already backsliding in ways that are quite worrisome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> It’s not guaranteed, for sure. David Wallace-Wells is with us, along with Bill McKibben — both environmental writers. David Wallace-Wells is also an essayist for the New York Times opinion section. Bill McKibben is cofounder of the climate activism group Third Act. We’ll have more with them and with you listeners after the break. I’m Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101913837/a-monster-el-nino-is-brewing-in-the-pacific",
"authors": [
"243"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101913838",
"label": "forum"
},
"forum_2010101913834": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101913834",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913834",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1778774400000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "how-plastic-took-over-the-world-and-how-big-oil-is-betting-on-it",
"title": "How Plastic Took Over the World – And How Big Oil is Betting on It",
"publishDate": 1778711486,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "How Plastic Took Over the World – And How Big Oil is Betting on It | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 14 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the world moves away from fossil fuels, oil and gas companies are betting on plastic to keep profits rolling in. In her new book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/747797/plastic-inc-by-beth-gardiner/\">Plastic Inc.,\u003c/a>” investigative journalist Beth Gardiner digs into how plastic went from a useful byproduct of oil and gas production into a material that has literally seeped into every aspect of our lives from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Overproduction of single-use plastic has left the world with a massive pollution problem, which plastic producers have successfully blamed on consumers, Gardiner argues. And, while Bay Area residents look for ways to reduce their plastic use, oil companies plan to double or triple plastic production. We talk about why the world is drowning in plastic and how we might reverse the trend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. When you get a hold of the basic premise of Beth Gardiner’s book, \u003cem>Plastic Ink\u003c/em>, it may transform how you see the products you buy, the way you use them, and how you discard them. Her book points out a truth that’s so big it was hiding in plain sight. Oil companies know that the world — slowly or quickly — will stop burning fossil fuels to power cars and homes because of climate change. But they have no intention of not making profits from whatever they can pump out of the ground. So what’s their future plan? Got one word for you: plastics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">For all that we consumers have been sold recycling as a solution to plastic waste, for all that many of us have tried to reduce the amount of plastic in our lives for environmental and/or health reasons, the oil and chemical and plastics companies have been working in the exact opposite direction, embedding plastic in every single product they can — and the packaging for that product too. Beth Gardiner joins us this morning to talk about her book. Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Hi, Alexis. Thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> So why don’t we just talk about the core argument of your book and how you kind of put it together from, you know, the documents that oil companies themselves have produced about what they see in their futures?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think the big picture here is that, you know, I have always been the person — and I’m sure so many of your listeners are that person too — who’s kind of carrying my canvas bags to the grocery store. Every time I go, I feel bad if I forget them. I’m toting around my water bottle with me. You know, I don’t want to buy a plastic water bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And I saw this article — it was in The Guardian, like, seven or eight years ago — and the headline just knocked me over. It was about the plastic industry, the petrochemical industry, which is really a subsidiary and offshoot of the oil and gas industry, fossil fuels — who we’re sort of accustomed to thinking of as villains, right, in the climate sense, but not so much in the area of plastic. I read the article. It was about how plastic producers were pouring billions of dollars into plans to increase plastic production in the years to come. The particular article was to do with fracking. There’s a big connection between fracking and plastic production, which we can talk about later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">But I think the thing that really hit me — and it was just like a gut punch to read this article — was, like, here I am so focused on my own personal use of plastic, trying to use less, feeling bad every time I throw more plastic out. I know I am one of so many people who feel that way. And it just kind of hit me that, well, I’m an environmental journalist — why have I never actually thought about where plastic is coming from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I think so much of the way that this issue — the plastic and plastic pollution issue, which is something that people are very concerned about, it’s so tangible in our lives — so much of the way that it gets covered, and the way that I think we often think about it, focuses either on where plastic ends up — you know, these terrible pictures we’ve seen so many of, of beaches covered with plastic, turtles tangled up in nets or what have you — or on how we can personally use less of it. And so little of our focus, I think, is on where plastic comes from.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> You know, this industry — big oil — is ramping up to make more, not less, in the years to come. So I wanted to kind of shift the lens a little bit away from personal responsibility and towards a corporate lens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> I think it’s worth laying a little foundation for folks about what plastics — kind of plural — actually are, because it comes into play about both why oil companies are so interested, but also when we get into things about the life cycle of these products. I mean, plastic is not one thing. Right? It’s all these different combinations of hydrocarbons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yes. Absolutely. And in some sense, that is the miracle of it. So, you know, that was sort of part of my astonishment too in writing this — that’s sort of the genesis of this book. Like, I’m an environmental journalist. I realized I don’t really know what plastic is, you know, before I started on this reporting. I certainly had a sense that it comes from oil and gas, but it didn’t really go much deeper than that. And I think in some sense, you know, we all know — right? — if you look at a cardboard box or a wooden table, you just get on some intuitive level —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You’re like, yeah, that’s, uh, walnut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> That was a tree. That was a tree at some point. Right? But plastic — we look at it, and it almost feels like it kind of comes from nowhere. Of course, it doesn’t. So plastic is a petrochemical. Plastics are chemical products produced from derivatives or byproducts of oil and gas. So when you drill oil out of the ground, you put it into a refinery and you are taking off the products that we know as fuels — the gasoline, the diesel, the jet fuel, the ship fuel — and you’re left with a bunch of chemical substances at the end, maybe ten, fifteen, twenty percent of the total barrel. And these chemicals — a big one of them is called naphtha, it’s a building block for plastic — are sent to petrochemical facilities, which are gigantic industrial furnaces that heat these products at very high heat. It’s a multistage process. They’re then recombined into all different kinds of configurations. Other chemicals are added in, and you can give these plastics any kind of property. Right? They can be hard or soft or firm or foamy, like styrofoam, or filmy, like a plastic bag. They can be any color, extremely durable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">There’s a whole other set of chemical processes that make plastics out of not oil, but natural gas. This is where the link to US fracking comes in. So what I think is important to understand is that this industry — big oil and gas — is selling a chunk of what they drill as fuels, right, the gas and the diesel and the jet fuel. But there is another chunk, and therefore another revenue stream for the industry, which is becoming plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And we probably won’t get into it here, but of course they have plans to take crude oil and make more of it into chemicals and less of it into fuel, as they’re sort of seeing where the world is going — not just the US, but China, Europe, other places — in terms of using fuels to power homes and cars and other things. You know, because plastics is so plural, so many different products, this is really complicated — at least for me to think about, and I think for many people in our listening audience — to think about what we do with these things when we’re done with them. Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Because we think we can recycle plastics. We’re kind of told — we’ve been sold this story over time, as you tell in the book, about recycling. But of course, if we have hundreds of different things, they can’t all go and be reused in all the same way, because they’re actually really fundamentally different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Exactly. So I don’t want to say that recycling has no value here. But in some sense, I think it is a distraction from the bigger picture, which is that there is so much unnecessary plastic being foisted on us all the time. And the industry has understood, from the very beginning — from the earliest years of the modern era of plastics, which goes back to the post-World War Two period — that people are worried about this. As we were throwing more and more of our plastics in the trash as the years and decades went by, and the amount of single-use plastics and disposable items increased, the industry really could see that this was something that people were worried about. And they understood that worry to be a threat to their business model of selling more and more plastic year after year — because public concern about any issue always holds the potential to translate into political action and policy that might shrink the markets they’re able to sell into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And the industry understood very clearly that recycling was a very, very powerful way of easing people’s worries. The writer Susan Freinkel, in her book about plastic ten or fifteen years ago, spoke to an industry lobbyist who used the phrase “guilt eraser” for recycling, and I think that is such a powerful term. It just sums up everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, you know, when you talk about recycling — if you’re talking about aluminum cans or cardboard boxes or glass or paper — recycling is really valuable, and —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> It’s a thing that happens. It’s a real thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Exactly. I mean, it’s actually always better to use less, right? We need to be producing fewer cardboard boxes. Recycling still has an environmental footprint. But if you are recycling those materials, they are going around again and again and being reused, turned into new cans, boxes, whatever. It’s a lot more complicated when you are talking about plastics, and this gets back to your original question — which is that this is actually so many different materials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So there are a couple of kinds of plastic that can be pretty effectively recycled. There’s PET plastic, which is like the drink bottles, the water bottles. And there’s another kind called HDPE, which tends to be like the milk containers. Those can be recycled somewhat effectively — though not as much as glass or aluminum. You sort of send it around the cycle a couple of times, the quality begins to degrade, and it pretty quickly ends up getting turned into, like, a plastic bench rather than a new bottle. So it’s not that it’s valueless, but it’s very hard to do it effectively, because as you said, there are so many different kinds of plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">In some sense, the bigger challenge is logistical and actually economic rather than technical. You know, technically, sure, you can recycle that water bottle a few times and use it again. But if you think about the volume of stuff that we throw out — and the industry has really encouraged people to think of all plastics as recyclable — so you’re putting that blueberry crate or that plastic film or the bag even into the recycling bin. These are actually chemically different substances, and they have to be separated. And, you know —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> They actually decrease the value of the waste stream.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yes. And some products and packaging actually contain multiple kinds of plastic. It’s very hard to really do that in an effective way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah. We’re talking with Beth Gardiner, environmental journalist, about her latest book, \u003cem>Plastic Ink\u003c/em>, which chronicles the rise of plastic production and why oil companies want to increase plastic output. She’s also the author of the book \u003cem>Choked: Life and Breath in the Age of Air Pollution\u003c/em>. We want you to join the conversation. What are your questions and concerns about how the plastics industry works and the amount of plastic we consume? We’re also curious if you’ve found ways to escape disposability culture that you feel are making a substantial difference, at least in your own life. The number is 866-733-6786. \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We talk about why the world is drowning in plastic and how we might reverse the trend.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1778786824,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 4,
"wordCount": 2332
},
"headData": {
"title": "How Plastic Took Over the World – And How Big Oil is Betting on It | KQED",
"description": "We talk about why the world is drowning in plastic and how we might reverse the trend.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "How Plastic Took Over the World – And How Big Oil is Betting on It",
"datePublished": "2026-05-13T15:31:26-07:00",
"dateModified": "2026-05-14T12:27:04-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1486848917.mp3?updated=1778786522",
"airdate": 1778774400,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Beth Gardiner",
"bio": "environmental journalist; author, \"Plastic Inc.\" and \"Choked: Life and Breath in the Age of Air Pollution\""
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101913834/how-plastic-took-over-the-world-and-how-big-oil-is-betting-on-it",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Thursday, May 14 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the world moves away from fossil fuels, oil and gas companies are betting on plastic to keep profits rolling in. In her new book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/747797/plastic-inc-by-beth-gardiner/\">Plastic Inc.,\u003c/a>” investigative journalist Beth Gardiner digs into how plastic went from a useful byproduct of oil and gas production into a material that has literally seeped into every aspect of our lives from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Overproduction of single-use plastic has left the world with a massive pollution problem, which plastic producers have successfully blamed on consumers, Gardiner argues. And, while Bay Area residents look for ways to reduce their plastic use, oil companies plan to double or triple plastic production. We talk about why the world is drowning in plastic and how we might reverse the trend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. When you get a hold of the basic premise of Beth Gardiner’s book, \u003cem>Plastic Ink\u003c/em>, it may transform how you see the products you buy, the way you use them, and how you discard them. Her book points out a truth that’s so big it was hiding in plain sight. Oil companies know that the world — slowly or quickly — will stop burning fossil fuels to power cars and homes because of climate change. But they have no intention of not making profits from whatever they can pump out of the ground. So what’s their future plan? Got one word for you: plastics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">For all that we consumers have been sold recycling as a solution to plastic waste, for all that many of us have tried to reduce the amount of plastic in our lives for environmental and/or health reasons, the oil and chemical and plastics companies have been working in the exact opposite direction, embedding plastic in every single product they can — and the packaging for that product too. Beth Gardiner joins us this morning to talk about her book. Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Hi, Alexis. Thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> So why don’t we just talk about the core argument of your book and how you kind of put it together from, you know, the documents that oil companies themselves have produced about what they see in their futures?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think the big picture here is that, you know, I have always been the person — and I’m sure so many of your listeners are that person too — who’s kind of carrying my canvas bags to the grocery store. Every time I go, I feel bad if I forget them. I’m toting around my water bottle with me. You know, I don’t want to buy a plastic water bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And I saw this article — it was in The Guardian, like, seven or eight years ago — and the headline just knocked me over. It was about the plastic industry, the petrochemical industry, which is really a subsidiary and offshoot of the oil and gas industry, fossil fuels — who we’re sort of accustomed to thinking of as villains, right, in the climate sense, but not so much in the area of plastic. I read the article. It was about how plastic producers were pouring billions of dollars into plans to increase plastic production in the years to come. The particular article was to do with fracking. There’s a big connection between fracking and plastic production, which we can talk about later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">But I think the thing that really hit me — and it was just like a gut punch to read this article — was, like, here I am so focused on my own personal use of plastic, trying to use less, feeling bad every time I throw more plastic out. I know I am one of so many people who feel that way. And it just kind of hit me that, well, I’m an environmental journalist — why have I never actually thought about where plastic is coming from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">I think so much of the way that this issue — the plastic and plastic pollution issue, which is something that people are very concerned about, it’s so tangible in our lives — so much of the way that it gets covered, and the way that I think we often think about it, focuses either on where plastic ends up — you know, these terrible pictures we’ve seen so many of, of beaches covered with plastic, turtles tangled up in nets or what have you — or on how we can personally use less of it. And so little of our focus, I think, is on where plastic comes from.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> You know, this industry — big oil — is ramping up to make more, not less, in the years to come. So I wanted to kind of shift the lens a little bit away from personal responsibility and towards a corporate lens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> I think it’s worth laying a little foundation for folks about what plastics — kind of plural — actually are, because it comes into play about both why oil companies are so interested, but also when we get into things about the life cycle of these products. I mean, plastic is not one thing. Right? It’s all these different combinations of hydrocarbons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yes. Absolutely. And in some sense, that is the miracle of it. So, you know, that was sort of part of my astonishment too in writing this — that’s sort of the genesis of this book. Like, I’m an environmental journalist. I realized I don’t really know what plastic is, you know, before I started on this reporting. I certainly had a sense that it comes from oil and gas, but it didn’t really go much deeper than that. And I think in some sense, you know, we all know — right? — if you look at a cardboard box or a wooden table, you just get on some intuitive level —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> You’re like, yeah, that’s, uh, walnut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> That was a tree. That was a tree at some point. Right? But plastic — we look at it, and it almost feels like it kind of comes from nowhere. Of course, it doesn’t. So plastic is a petrochemical. Plastics are chemical products produced from derivatives or byproducts of oil and gas. So when you drill oil out of the ground, you put it into a refinery and you are taking off the products that we know as fuels — the gasoline, the diesel, the jet fuel, the ship fuel — and you’re left with a bunch of chemical substances at the end, maybe ten, fifteen, twenty percent of the total barrel. And these chemicals — a big one of them is called naphtha, it’s a building block for plastic — are sent to petrochemical facilities, which are gigantic industrial furnaces that heat these products at very high heat. It’s a multistage process. They’re then recombined into all different kinds of configurations. Other chemicals are added in, and you can give these plastics any kind of property. Right? They can be hard or soft or firm or foamy, like styrofoam, or filmy, like a plastic bag. They can be any color, extremely durable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">There’s a whole other set of chemical processes that make plastics out of not oil, but natural gas. This is where the link to US fracking comes in. So what I think is important to understand is that this industry — big oil and gas — is selling a chunk of what they drill as fuels, right, the gas and the diesel and the jet fuel. But there is another chunk, and therefore another revenue stream for the industry, which is becoming plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And we probably won’t get into it here, but of course they have plans to take crude oil and make more of it into chemicals and less of it into fuel, as they’re sort of seeing where the world is going — not just the US, but China, Europe, other places — in terms of using fuels to power homes and cars and other things. You know, because plastics is so plural, so many different products, this is really complicated — at least for me to think about, and I think for many people in our listening audience — to think about what we do with these things when we’re done with them. Right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Because we think we can recycle plastics. We’re kind of told — we’ve been sold this story over time, as you tell in the book, about recycling. But of course, if we have hundreds of different things, they can’t all go and be reused in all the same way, because they’re actually really fundamentally different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Exactly. So I don’t want to say that recycling has no value here. But in some sense, I think it is a distraction from the bigger picture, which is that there is so much unnecessary plastic being foisted on us all the time. And the industry has understood, from the very beginning — from the earliest years of the modern era of plastics, which goes back to the post-World War Two period — that people are worried about this. As we were throwing more and more of our plastics in the trash as the years and decades went by, and the amount of single-use plastics and disposable items increased, the industry really could see that this was something that people were worried about. And they understood that worry to be a threat to their business model of selling more and more plastic year after year — because public concern about any issue always holds the potential to translate into political action and policy that might shrink the markets they’re able to sell into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">And the industry understood very clearly that recycling was a very, very powerful way of easing people’s worries. The writer Susan Freinkel, in her book about plastic ten or fifteen years ago, spoke to an industry lobbyist who used the phrase “guilt eraser” for recycling, and I think that is such a powerful term. It just sums up everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, you know, when you talk about recycling — if you’re talking about aluminum cans or cardboard boxes or glass or paper — recycling is really valuable, and —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> It’s a thing that happens. It’s a real thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Exactly. I mean, it’s actually always better to use less, right? We need to be producing fewer cardboard boxes. Recycling still has an environmental footprint. But if you are recycling those materials, they are going around again and again and being reused, turned into new cans, boxes, whatever. It’s a lot more complicated when you are talking about plastics, and this gets back to your original question — which is that this is actually so many different materials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So there are a couple of kinds of plastic that can be pretty effectively recycled. There’s PET plastic, which is like the drink bottles, the water bottles. And there’s another kind called HDPE, which tends to be like the milk containers. Those can be recycled somewhat effectively — though not as much as glass or aluminum. You sort of send it around the cycle a couple of times, the quality begins to degrade, and it pretty quickly ends up getting turned into, like, a plastic bench rather than a new bottle. So it’s not that it’s valueless, but it’s very hard to do it effectively, because as you said, there are so many different kinds of plastic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">In some sense, the bigger challenge is logistical and actually economic rather than technical. You know, technically, sure, you can recycle that water bottle a few times and use it again. But if you think about the volume of stuff that we throw out — and the industry has really encouraged people to think of all plastics as recyclable — so you’re putting that blueberry crate or that plastic film or the bag even into the recycling bin. These are actually chemically different substances, and they have to be separated. And, you know —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> They actually decrease the value of the waste stream.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Beth Gardiner:\u003c/strong> Yes. And some products and packaging actually contain multiple kinds of plastic. It’s very hard to really do that in an effective way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah. We’re talking with Beth Gardiner, environmental journalist, about her latest book, \u003cem>Plastic Ink\u003c/em>, which chronicles the rise of plastic production and why oil companies want to increase plastic output. She’s also the author of the book \u003cem>Choked: Life and Breath in the Age of Air Pollution\u003c/em>. We want you to join the conversation. What are your questions and concerns about how the plastics industry works and the amount of plastic we consume? We’re also curious if you’ve found ways to escape disposability culture that you feel are making a substantial difference, at least in your own life. The number is 866-733-6786. \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101913834/how-plastic-took-over-the-world-and-how-big-oil-is-betting-on-it",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101913835",
"label": "forum"
},
"forum_2010101913824": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101913824",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101913824",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1778691600000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "the-hidden-world-of-forced-arbitration",
"title": "The Hidden World of Forced Arbitration",
"publishDate": 1778620903,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "The Hidden World of Forced Arbitration | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 3,
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, May 13 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Forced arbitration clauses are buried in everything from product warranties to bank loans to employment contracts, often requiring consumers and workers to give up their right to sue without realizing it. Brendan Ballou, a former federal prosecutor and co-founder of the Public Integrity Project, says arbitration has become an opaque, parallel legal system that favors corporations and undermines the rule of law. We’ll talk to Ballou about new book, “When Companies Run the Courts,” which looks at why forced arbitration has become so widespread and what states like California are doing to restrict it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Mina Kim. If you’ve signed up for a credit card, the warranty on a product, or accepted a job, you’ve likely agreed at some point to arbitration to settle any disputes rather than go through the courts. Forced arbitration promises to be a faster, easier way to reach resolution, but it’s a process that Brendan Ballou, a former federal prosecutor, says is too often biased in favor of corporations. In this system, decisions are hidden from the public and cannot be appealed, he writes. Judges decide their own powers and are often paid for by the companies they’re supposed to judge. Ballou’s new book is When Companies Run the Courts. Listeners, do you think forced arbitration is flawed? What’s been your experience? Brendan, welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Well, you said forced arbitration touches virtually every part of our lives. How often are we being asked to agree to arbitration?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Well, the most recent studies say that there are more forced arbitration agreements than there are American citizens, and I think that probably dramatically understates the number of agreements. So about eighty percent of Fortune 500 companies use forced arbitration either with their consumers or employees. At least sixty million private sector workers are bound by forced arbitration. And if you just sort of think anecdotally about your own life, all the little click-to-accept agreements that you have when you buy a new product online or even visit a website — overwhelmingly, I would say those agreements increasingly have forced arbitration terms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> And so, basically, the overall effect is that it’s just much harder to bring a case to court against a company that has this. Right? That it was, you know, something that we had the right to do maybe a few generations ago more frequently than we do now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. And I think to the extent that people feel that companies are increasingly beyond the reach of the law, it’s because they literally are, and forced arbitration is the explanation. So, you know, just to set a baseline here — when we’re talking about forced arbitration, and you teed this up very, very clearly — we’re talking about a private alternative to the traditional justice system. So instead of having a judge, you have what’s called a private arbitrator decide the case. But importantly, that decision is binding, and yet the decision-making process, the proceedings, are in secret. As you say, they can’t be appealed. And I think most importantly — and I think this kind of gets to the heart of why the system so often fails — is the arbitrator is often paid for by the company getting sued. And so they have a natural incentive to rule for the party that is effectively their employer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So to help us understand these features of forced arbitration in a real-life example, you tell the story of the Piccolos. Can you explain what happened to them when they visited Walt Disney World?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. So the Piccolos were a couple that, as you said, wanted to go to Walt Disney World. Jeffrey Piccolo’s wife, Kanokporn Tangsuan, had severe allergies, and so they had to be very careful about where they were going to eat. They went to this sort of faux Irish pub and, at least according to their subsequent allegations, were very careful about what they ordered. They repeatedly asked the wait staff for assurances that the food would be allergen-free. They were repeatedly assured that it would be. Very tragically, it was not. And Tangsuan died of anaphylactic shock shortly thereafter. The problem for Jeffrey Piccolo was that when he tried to sue for wrongful death, Disney actually moved to compel Piccolo into arbitration — among other reasons because he had signed an arbitration agreement as part of his Disney+ account several years earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So wait a second. He signed up for a streaming service and by doing so gave up the right to ever bring Disney to court if they went to a theme park?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Exactly. And increasingly, companies have been arguing — and arguing successfully — that arbitration agreements in seemingly unrelated contracts can nevertheless bind you. You know, you have stories about a woman who was allegedly racially discriminated against at a Walmart, forced into arbitration because she had signed up for their gig delivery service several months or several years prior. You have an example of a father who had to arbitrate the wrongful death of his son, who was murdered at an Airbnb, because he himself had an Airbnb contract. So, you know, there are all sorts of agreements that we’re signing every day that may bind us in ways that we might not even expect or foresee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Let me invite listeners into the conversation. What questions do you have about forced arbitration, and what are your reactions to the stories that you’re hearing? Have you ever been forced into arbitration? What was that process like for you? Or maybe you’re an arbitrator or have represented clients in arbitration — what would you like to tell us? You can email \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, find us on Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, or by calling 866-733-6786. 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, Brendan, this is often how people find out that they agreed to forced arbitration, right — when they have a moment where they do want to make a complaint or try to sue a company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Exactly. And I think we don’t really realize the extent to which we’re signing away our rights, because it’s not just that you have to pursue arbitration and can’t go into court. Very often, these agreements require that you go to arbitration individually. And the reason that that matters is it effectively kills class actions — the cases that you bring when hundreds or thousands or millions of people are harmed in the same way. When you have to bring your case in arbitration individually, it makes it economically unaffordable to pursue justice for all but the most serious or deadly harms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Is there a good reason to create more obstacles to class action lawsuits? You know, we hear about how state courts can be overloaded by these things in some places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I think that has been a sort of meme in American consciousness for several decades — this idea of a litigation explosion that’s burdening courts and companies that we’re ultimately footing the bill for. Whether or not that is true, I think it’s important for your listeners to understand that millions of dollars have been spent to get you to have that belief. And in fact, the most thorough studies that we’ve got on the supposed litigation explosion that precipitated this attack on class actions suggest that the litigation explosion may never have occurred, or didn’t occur the way that we thought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So there was a great study, from, I believe, 1978 to 1984, which was sort of the key moment when cases supposedly took off. It turns out that the growth in cases — and there was a growth in cases — was actually driven in large part not by people suing companies, but by the government suing people. There was a renewed emphasis on suing Social Security beneficiaries and veterans to try to claw back their various benefits. The explosion, such as it occurred for companies, was actually just limited to asbestos litigation. And in fact, the kinds of cases that companies normally care about — securities cases, antitrust cases, and so forth — actually declined over that period of time. So, you know, there has been this long-standing argument that because of this growth in litigation, we need to pare back or destroy class actions. I’m not sure the history really backs that up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> I was asking you earlier about how people often find out that they’ve agreed to forced arbitration. Can you put some fault on the person for not reading the terms of service? Like, how hard is it to often find that you are agreeing to this in terms of service agreements?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Well, it’s hard, and unfortunately the Supreme Court has made it harder. The Montana legislature back in the nineties passed a law that said that if you’re going to have a forced arbitration agreement in your contract, you have to say so on the first page of the agreement. The Supreme Court actually invalidated that law and, somewhat ironically, said that it discriminated against arbitration agreements for doing that. So, you know, oftentimes these agreements are really buried in contracts, and courts have made it so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So walk us through, in the Piccolos’ case, what is different about resolving a case like this in arbitration as opposed to in a courtroom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So, you know, when you think about the features of a courtroom — or the rule of law more generally — they’re so fundamental that oftentimes they don’t even really occur to you. And one of the most important is that proceedings happen by and large in public. That makes sure that the proceedings are fair, that they’re like other proceedings, that there aren’t hidden side deals. And importantly, when a judge makes a mistake, that judge’s opinion can generally be appealed to somebody else to try to correct that error.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">None of those things necessarily happen in forced arbitration. Proceedings are in secret. Decisions are not public — oftentimes they’re not even shared. And it’s actually harder to appeal the decision of a private arbitrator than it is to appeal the decision of a judge. And I think all of this goes to the core of the rule of law. If there is a core to the rule of law, it’s that similar cases are treated similarly. And when you have law developing in isolation and in secret, people can’t draw on the decisions of past cases. You really sort of lose the core of what the rule of law is, and decisions become increasingly arbitrary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So what about the process itself? Like, can you bring evidence? What is the procedure like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s a great question. The answer — and it’s a very standard lawyer answer — is it depends. There’s a huge variation across arbitration companies, the companies that actually provide arbitration, and the kinds of cases, about what somebody can get. Can you file procedural motions? Can you get discovery? Can you do depositions? In some cases, yes. In some cases, no. And importantly, it’s private companies that provide arbitrators, and those companies have to get business themselves. So oftentimes, they will have to evolve or change their rules so that they are going to be able to get large corporate business. And in fact, you have some extreme examples — for instance, of a gig company working with a smaller, less reputable arbitration provider to literally write the rules of the arbitration process together, and then forcing all of their gig users onto that arbitration platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So you’re saying that the company can pick the arbitrator and is sometimes even paying for that particular arbitration company. I mean, you give us an extreme example here with Google as well. But basically, what you’re describing sounds like a really intense conflict of interest. Is that something that has to be disclosed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> No. Not necessarily. And I’ll say, as a practicing lawyer, I have appeared in front of arbitrators representing clients. And by and large, overwhelmingly, the arbitrators that I’ve appeared in front of are trying to do the right thing. But the natural economic incentives of how arbitration works naturally incline arbitrators towards a certain direction. And you see it in the statistics — overwhelmingly, consumers and employees lose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Brendan Ballou about forced arbitration and how forced arbitration clauses appear in everything from employment contracts to credit card terms, and the impacts they can have on workers and consumers — and also how an arbitration procedure can be carried out. Listeners, you can share your questions at 866-733-6786, on our social channels — Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> — or by emailing \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>. Brendan’s new book is When Companies Run the Courts: How Forced Arbitration Became America’s Secret Justice System. More with him and with you after the break. I’m Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We talk to Ballou about new book, “When Companies Run the Courts,” which looks at why forced arbitration has become so widespread and what states like California are doing to restrict it.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1778703370,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 4,
"wordCount": 2352
},
"headData": {
"title": "The Hidden World of Forced Arbitration | KQED",
"description": "We talk to Ballou about new book, “When Companies Run the Courts,” which looks at why forced arbitration has become so widespread and what states like California are doing to restrict it.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "The Hidden World of Forced Arbitration",
"datePublished": "2026-05-12T14:21:43-07:00",
"dateModified": "2026-05-13T13:16:10-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1600871455.mp3?updated=1778702609",
"airdate": 1778691600,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Brendan Ballou",
"bio": "former federal prosecutor; CEO, the Public Integrity Project; author, \"When Companies Run the Courts: Forced Arbitration and America's Secret Justice System\""
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101913824/the-hidden-world-of-forced-arbitration",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, May 13 at 10 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Forced arbitration clauses are buried in everything from product warranties to bank loans to employment contracts, often requiring consumers and workers to give up their right to sue without realizing it. Brendan Ballou, a former federal prosecutor and co-founder of the Public Integrity Project, says arbitration has become an opaque, parallel legal system that favors corporations and undermines the rule of law. We’ll talk to Ballou about new book, “When Companies Run the Courts,” which looks at why forced arbitration has become so widespread and what states like California are doing to restrict it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Mina Kim. If you’ve signed up for a credit card, the warranty on a product, or accepted a job, you’ve likely agreed at some point to arbitration to settle any disputes rather than go through the courts. Forced arbitration promises to be a faster, easier way to reach resolution, but it’s a process that Brendan Ballou, a former federal prosecutor, says is too often biased in favor of corporations. In this system, decisions are hidden from the public and cannot be appealed, he writes. Judges decide their own powers and are often paid for by the companies they’re supposed to judge. Ballou’s new book is When Companies Run the Courts. Listeners, do you think forced arbitration is flawed? What’s been your experience? Brendan, welcome to \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Well, you said forced arbitration touches virtually every part of our lives. How often are we being asked to agree to arbitration?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Well, the most recent studies say that there are more forced arbitration agreements than there are American citizens, and I think that probably dramatically understates the number of agreements. So about eighty percent of Fortune 500 companies use forced arbitration either with their consumers or employees. At least sixty million private sector workers are bound by forced arbitration. And if you just sort of think anecdotally about your own life, all the little click-to-accept agreements that you have when you buy a new product online or even visit a website — overwhelmingly, I would say those agreements increasingly have forced arbitration terms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> And so, basically, the overall effect is that it’s just much harder to bring a case to court against a company that has this. Right? That it was, you know, something that we had the right to do maybe a few generations ago more frequently than we do now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. And I think to the extent that people feel that companies are increasingly beyond the reach of the law, it’s because they literally are, and forced arbitration is the explanation. So, you know, just to set a baseline here — when we’re talking about forced arbitration, and you teed this up very, very clearly — we’re talking about a private alternative to the traditional justice system. So instead of having a judge, you have what’s called a private arbitrator decide the case. But importantly, that decision is binding, and yet the decision-making process, the proceedings, are in secret. As you say, they can’t be appealed. And I think most importantly — and I think this kind of gets to the heart of why the system so often fails — is the arbitrator is often paid for by the company getting sued. And so they have a natural incentive to rule for the party that is effectively their employer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So to help us understand these features of forced arbitration in a real-life example, you tell the story of the Piccolos. Can you explain what happened to them when they visited Walt Disney World?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. So the Piccolos were a couple that, as you said, wanted to go to Walt Disney World. Jeffrey Piccolo’s wife, Kanokporn Tangsuan, had severe allergies, and so they had to be very careful about where they were going to eat. They went to this sort of faux Irish pub and, at least according to their subsequent allegations, were very careful about what they ordered. They repeatedly asked the wait staff for assurances that the food would be allergen-free. They were repeatedly assured that it would be. Very tragically, it was not. And Tangsuan died of anaphylactic shock shortly thereafter. The problem for Jeffrey Piccolo was that when he tried to sue for wrongful death, Disney actually moved to compel Piccolo into arbitration — among other reasons because he had signed an arbitration agreement as part of his Disney+ account several years earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So wait a second. He signed up for a streaming service and by doing so gave up the right to ever bring Disney to court if they went to a theme park?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Exactly. And increasingly, companies have been arguing — and arguing successfully — that arbitration agreements in seemingly unrelated contracts can nevertheless bind you. You know, you have stories about a woman who was allegedly racially discriminated against at a Walmart, forced into arbitration because she had signed up for their gig delivery service several months or several years prior. You have an example of a father who had to arbitrate the wrongful death of his son, who was murdered at an Airbnb, because he himself had an Airbnb contract. So, you know, there are all sorts of agreements that we’re signing every day that may bind us in ways that we might not even expect or foresee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Let me invite listeners into the conversation. What questions do you have about forced arbitration, and what are your reactions to the stories that you’re hearing? Have you ever been forced into arbitration? What was that process like for you? Or maybe you’re an arbitrator or have represented clients in arbitration — what would you like to tell us? You can email \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, find us on Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em>, or by calling 866-733-6786. 866-733-6786.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So, Brendan, this is often how people find out that they agreed to forced arbitration, right — when they have a moment where they do want to make a complaint or try to sue a company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Exactly. And I think we don’t really realize the extent to which we’re signing away our rights, because it’s not just that you have to pursue arbitration and can’t go into court. Very often, these agreements require that you go to arbitration individually. And the reason that that matters is it effectively kills class actions — the cases that you bring when hundreds or thousands or millions of people are harmed in the same way. When you have to bring your case in arbitration individually, it makes it economically unaffordable to pursue justice for all but the most serious or deadly harms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> Is there a good reason to create more obstacles to class action lawsuits? You know, we hear about how state courts can be overloaded by these things in some places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I think that has been a sort of meme in American consciousness for several decades — this idea of a litigation explosion that’s burdening courts and companies that we’re ultimately footing the bill for. Whether or not that is true, I think it’s important for your listeners to understand that millions of dollars have been spent to get you to have that belief. And in fact, the most thorough studies that we’ve got on the supposed litigation explosion that precipitated this attack on class actions suggest that the litigation explosion may never have occurred, or didn’t occur the way that we thought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">So there was a great study, from, I believe, 1978 to 1984, which was sort of the key moment when cases supposedly took off. It turns out that the growth in cases — and there was a growth in cases — was actually driven in large part not by people suing companies, but by the government suing people. There was a renewed emphasis on suing Social Security beneficiaries and veterans to try to claw back their various benefits. The explosion, such as it occurred for companies, was actually just limited to asbestos litigation. And in fact, the kinds of cases that companies normally care about — securities cases, antitrust cases, and so forth — actually declined over that period of time. So, you know, there has been this long-standing argument that because of this growth in litigation, we need to pare back or destroy class actions. I’m not sure the history really backs that up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> I was asking you earlier about how people often find out that they’ve agreed to forced arbitration. Can you put some fault on the person for not reading the terms of service? Like, how hard is it to often find that you are agreeing to this in terms of service agreements?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Well, it’s hard, and unfortunately the Supreme Court has made it harder. The Montana legislature back in the nineties passed a law that said that if you’re going to have a forced arbitration agreement in your contract, you have to say so on the first page of the agreement. The Supreme Court actually invalidated that law and, somewhat ironically, said that it discriminated against arbitration agreements for doing that. So, you know, oftentimes these agreements are really buried in contracts, and courts have made it so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So walk us through, in the Piccolos’ case, what is different about resolving a case like this in arbitration as opposed to in a courtroom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. So, you know, when you think about the features of a courtroom — or the rule of law more generally — they’re so fundamental that oftentimes they don’t even really occur to you. And one of the most important is that proceedings happen by and large in public. That makes sure that the proceedings are fair, that they’re like other proceedings, that there aren’t hidden side deals. And importantly, when a judge makes a mistake, that judge’s opinion can generally be appealed to somebody else to try to correct that error.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">None of those things necessarily happen in forced arbitration. Proceedings are in secret. Decisions are not public — oftentimes they’re not even shared. And it’s actually harder to appeal the decision of a private arbitrator than it is to appeal the decision of a judge. And I think all of this goes to the core of the rule of law. If there is a core to the rule of law, it’s that similar cases are treated similarly. And when you have law developing in isolation and in secret, people can’t draw on the decisions of past cases. You really sort of lose the core of what the rule of law is, and decisions become increasingly arbitrary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So what about the process itself? Like, can you bring evidence? What is the procedure like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s a great question. The answer — and it’s a very standard lawyer answer — is it depends. There’s a huge variation across arbitration companies, the companies that actually provide arbitration, and the kinds of cases, about what somebody can get. Can you file procedural motions? Can you get discovery? Can you do depositions? In some cases, yes. In some cases, no. And importantly, it’s private companies that provide arbitrators, and those companies have to get business themselves. So oftentimes, they will have to evolve or change their rules so that they are going to be able to get large corporate business. And in fact, you have some extreme examples — for instance, of a gig company working with a smaller, less reputable arbitration provider to literally write the rules of the arbitration process together, and then forcing all of their gig users onto that arbitration platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> So you’re saying that the company can pick the arbitrator and is sometimes even paying for that particular arbitration company. I mean, you give us an extreme example here with Google as well. But basically, what you’re describing sounds like a really intense conflict of interest. Is that something that has to be disclosed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Brendan Ballou:\u003c/strong> No. Not necessarily. And I’ll say, as a practicing lawyer, I have appeared in front of arbitrators representing clients. And by and large, overwhelmingly, the arbitrators that I’ve appeared in front of are trying to do the right thing. But the natural economic incentives of how arbitration works naturally incline arbitrators towards a certain direction. And you see it in the statistics — overwhelmingly, consumers and employees lose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]\">\u003cstrong>Mina Kim:\u003c/strong> We’re talking with Brendan Ballou about forced arbitration and how forced arbitration clauses appear in everything from employment contracts to credit card terms, and the impacts they can have on workers and consumers — and also how an arbitration procedure can be carried out. Listeners, you can share your questions at 866-733-6786, on our social channels — Discord, Blue Sky, Facebook, or Instagram at KQED \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> — or by emailing \u003ca class=\"underline underline underline-offset-2 decoration-1 decoration-current/40 hover:decoration-current focus:decoration-current\" href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>. Brendan’s new book is When Companies Run the Courts: How Forced Arbitration Became America’s Secret Justice System. More with him and with you after the break. I’m Mina Kim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101913824/the-hidden-world-of-forced-arbitration",
"authors": [
"243"
],
"programs": [
"forum_3"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101913825",
"label": "forum_3"
},
"forum_2010101911792": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911792",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911792",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1761667200000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "in-search-of-home-part-4-strategies-for-building-permanent-homes-for-the-unhoused",
"title": "In Search of Home Part 4: Strategies For Building Permanent Homes for the Unhoused",
"publishDate": 1761601035,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "In Search of Home Part 4: Strategies For Building Permanent Homes for the Unhoused | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 1688,
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 28 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>One of the main drivers of homelessness in the Bay Area is simply a lack of affordable housing for people with the very lowest incomes. In Part 4 of our series “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” we’ll take a look at some innovative strategies developers and cities are exploring to fund projects and lower the cost of construction. We bring together housing developers, housing experts and Bay Area residents to discuss what works to bring more permanent housing that formerly homeless people can actually afford.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We bring together housing developers, housing experts and Bay Area residents to discuss what works to bring more permanent housing that formerly homeless people can actually afford.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1761752842,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 3,
"wordCount": 102
},
"headData": {
"title": "In Search of Home Part 4: Strategies For Building Permanent Homes for the Unhoused | KQED",
"description": "We bring together housing developers, housing experts and Bay Area residents to discuss what works to bring more permanent housing that formerly homeless people can actually afford.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "In Search of Home Part 4: Strategies For Building Permanent Homes for the Unhoused",
"datePublished": "2025-10-27T14:37:15-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-10-29T08:47:22-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5356850804.mp3?updated=1761684463",
"airdate": 1761667200,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Patrick Kennedy",
"bio": "owner, Panoramic Interests - a development firm that has been building in the Bay Area since 1990"
},
{
"name": "Carolina Reid",
"bio": "professor in affordable housing and urban policy, Department of City and Regional Planning at the University of California at Berkeley"
},
{
"name": "Matt Franklin",
"bio": "president and CEO, MidPen Housing"
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911792/in-search-of-home-part-4-strategies-for-building-permanent-homes-for-the-unhoused",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 28 at 9 AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>One of the main drivers of homelessness in the Bay Area is simply a lack of affordable housing for people with the very lowest incomes. In Part 4 of our series “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” we’ll take a look at some innovative strategies developers and cities are exploring to fund projects and lower the cost of construction. We bring together housing developers, housing experts and Bay Area residents to discuss what works to bring more permanent housing that formerly homeless people can actually afford.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911792/in-search-of-home-part-4-strategies-for-building-permanent-homes-for-the-unhoused",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"series": [
"forum_1688"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101911827",
"label": "forum_1688"
},
"forum_2010101911606": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911606",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911606",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1760457600000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "in-search-of-home-part-3-the-path-to-permanent-housing",
"title": "In Search of Home Part 3: The Path to Permanent Housing",
"publishDate": 1760397007,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "In Search of Home Part 3: The Path to Permanent Housing | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 1688,
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 14 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>We continue our series, “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” with an examination of what it takes to help a person experiencing homelessness find their way into permanent housing. We talk with providers operating transitional housing with wrap-around services and rapid rehousing programs, that help with leasing new apartments, about the most effective ways to move a formerly homeless person or family into a permanent home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": " We talk with providers operating transitional housing about the most effective ways to move a formerly homeless person or family into a permanent home.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1760470301,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 3,
"wordCount": 80
},
"headData": {
"title": "In Search of Home Part 3: The Path to Permanent Housing | KQED",
"description": " We talk with providers operating transitional housing about the most effective ways to move a formerly homeless person or family into a permanent home.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "In Search of Home Part 3: The Path to Permanent Housing",
"datePublished": "2025-10-13T16:10:07-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-10-14T12:31:41-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9631188321.mp3?updated=1760469406",
"airdate": 1760457600,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Vivian Wan",
"bio": "chief executive officer, Abode, a nonprofit that provides services and housing in the Bay Area"
},
{
"name": "Lydia Chriss",
"bio": "Hamilton Families client"
},
{
"name": "Kyriell Noon",
"bio": "executive director, Hamilton Families"
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911606/in-search-of-home-part-3-the-path-to-permanent-housing",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 14 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>We continue our series, “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” with an examination of what it takes to help a person experiencing homelessness find their way into permanent housing. We talk with providers operating transitional housing with wrap-around services and rapid rehousing programs, that help with leasing new apartments, about the most effective ways to move a formerly homeless person or family into a permanent home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911606/in-search-of-home-part-3-the-path-to-permanent-housing",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"series": [
"forum_1688"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101911607",
"label": "forum_1688"
},
"forum_2010101911397": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911397",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911397",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1759248000000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "in-search-of-home-part-2-what-happens-when-someone-loses-their-housing",
"title": "In Search of Home Part 2: What Happens When Someone Loses Their Housing",
"publishDate": 1759182956,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "In Search of Home Part 2: What Happens When Someone Loses Their Housing | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 1688,
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, September 30 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Forum is continuing our series, “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” with a look into what happens when people lose their housing. Some find a new place to live quickly, while others shuffle through couch-surfing, sleeping outside, staying at shelters, living in cars or a tent. We’ll talk about the early stages of losing housing and the interventions that can help keep homelessness “brief and rare” as policy experts say, and head off chronic homelessness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We talk about the early stages of losing housing and the interventions that can help keep homelessness “brief and rare.”",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1760392380,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 3,
"wordCount": 93
},
"headData": {
"title": "In Search of Home Part 2: What Happens When Someone Loses Their Housing | KQED",
"description": "We talk about the early stages of losing housing and the interventions that can help keep homelessness “brief and rare.”",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "In Search of Home Part 2: What Happens When Someone Loses Their Housing",
"datePublished": "2025-09-29T14:55:56-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-10-13T14:53:00-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7438182887.mp3?updated=1759259256",
"airdate": 1759248000,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Vanessa Rancaño",
"bio": "housing affordability reporter, NPR"
},
{
"name": "Sharon Cornu",
"bio": "executive director, St. Mary's Center - a provider of transitional housing and other services for seniors and families in Oakland"
},
{
"name": "Markos Gonzalez",
"bio": "associate director of programs community outreach, Bay Area Community Services (BACS) - a provider of behavioral health and homelessness services"
},
{
"name": "Keanna Ward",
"bio": "Bay Area resident, is formerly homeless"
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911397/in-search-of-home-part-2-what-happens-when-someone-loses-their-housing",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, September 30 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Forum is continuing our series, “In Search of Home: Solutions for the Homelessness Crisis” with a look into what happens when people lose their housing. Some find a new place to live quickly, while others shuffle through couch-surfing, sleeping outside, staying at shelters, living in cars or a tent. We’ll talk about the early stages of losing housing and the interventions that can help keep homelessness “brief and rare” as policy experts say, and head off chronic homelessness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911397/in-search-of-home-part-2-what-happens-when-someone-loses-their-housing",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"series": [
"forum_1688"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101911398",
"label": "forum_1688"
},
"forum_2010101911674": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911674",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911674",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1760720400000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "get-ready-to-be-spooked-this-halloween",
"title": "Get Ready to be ‘Spooked’ this Halloween",
"publishDate": 1760653638,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "Get Ready to be ‘Spooked’ this Halloween | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Friday, October 17 at 10AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glynn Washington, host of KQED and Snap Judgment’s “Spooked,” joins us to talk about the podcast’s new season called The Crossroads. It takes stories about encounters with the unknown to new levels by exploring what happens when desperation drives us to bargain with dark forces. As “Spooked” tours the West Coast — with shows on Oct. 23 in Los Angeles and Oct. 25 in Oakland – we’ll talk about why we crave frights, scares and ghosts this month, and what they can teach us about our world year-round.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/edf7dks91b4\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "Glynn Washington, host of KQED and Snap Judgment’s “Spooked,” joins us to talk about the podcast’s new season called The Crossroads.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1761929396,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 4,
"wordCount": 128
},
"headData": {
"title": "Get Ready to be ‘Spooked’ this Halloween | KQED",
"description": "Glynn Washington, host of KQED and Snap Judgment’s “Spooked,” joins us to talk about the podcast’s new season called The Crossroads.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "Get Ready to be ‘Spooked’ this Halloween",
"datePublished": "2025-10-16T15:27:18-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-10-31T09:49:56-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1709432810.mp3?updated=1760729931",
"airdate": 1760720400,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Glynn Washington",
"bio": "host and executive producer, \"Snap Judgment\" and \"Spooked\" podcasts"
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911674/get-ready-to-be-spooked-this-halloween",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Friday, October 17 at 10AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Glynn Washington, host of KQED and Snap Judgment’s “Spooked,” joins us to talk about the podcast’s new season called The Crossroads. It takes stories about encounters with the unknown to new levels by exploring what happens when desperation drives us to bargain with dark forces. As “Spooked” tours the West Coast — with shows on Oct. 23 in Los Angeles and Oct. 25 in Oakland – we’ll talk about why we crave frights, scares and ghosts this month, and what they can teach us about our world year-round.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/edf7dks91b4'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/edf7dks91b4'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911674/get-ready-to-be-spooked-this-halloween",
"authors": [
"243"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"tags": [
"forum_1684"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101894735",
"label": "forum"
},
"forum_2010101911494": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911494",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911494",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1759852800000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "is-it-time-for-california-to-consider-a-soft-secession",
"title": "Is It Time for California to Consider a \"Soft Secession\"?",
"publishDate": 1759790614,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "Is It Time for California to Consider a “Soft Secession”? | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/YjdZf2uhwn0\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1763671629,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 42,
"wordCount": 1766
},
"headData": {
"title": "Is It Time for California to Consider a \"Soft Secession\"? | KQED",
"description": "We talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "Is It Time for California to Consider a \"Soft Secession\"?",
"datePublished": "2025-10-06T15:43:34-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-11-20T12:47:09-08:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7204637683.mp3?updated=1759866872",
"airdate": 1759852800,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Clara Jeffery",
"bio": "editor in chief, Mother Jones and the Center for Investigative Reporting"
},
{
"name": "Jon Michaels",
"bio": "law professor, UCLA"
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911494/is-it-time-for-california-to-consider-a-soft-secession",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Tuesday, October 7 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has a massive economy, the power of Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and we grow much of the nation’s food. As the Trump administration targets the state with federal cuts, ICE raids, and the deployment of the National Guard, some are asking: How could California—and other blue states—use their considerable power? Could there be a kind of “soft secession” from the federal government? We’ll talk about the possible paths for blue-state resistance.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/YjdZf2uhwn0'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Welcome to \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Forum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Over the last 20 years, Republican-controlled states and their allies in the judiciary have built a new power infrastructure out of the latent potential of statehood. And now, as the Trump administration breaks norms — and often laws — in pursuit of a different America, there have been calls in blue states to fight back against federal power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But what should the states do, and how? It’s not just resisting. Blue states are also building new alliances to take on some of the tasks that traditionally would have been federal responsibilities.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a new essay in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Clara Jeffrey outlined some of the many tactics now at play to throw the states’ economic might around. It’s a set of maneuvers that could be tantamount to a “soft secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To talk about what that could mean, we’re joined by Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Welcome, Clara.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks so much for having me, Alexis.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And we’re also joined by John Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. Welcome, Jon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Clara, let’s just go straight to the name — “soft secession.” How do you define that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, it’s defined not as a violent break like 1861, but another term for it is “noncooperative federalism.” Basically, it’s where states that are aligned in values and purpose team up to either defensively or offensively act in their own best interest — to protect their citizens, their values, their programs, their funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And who is actually arguing for this? Are there people out there aside from your essay, saying it’s time for soft secession? Are there Democratic politicians saying this, or is this more of a whisper-network thing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would say it’s more essayists, law professors — people who historically have probed this even before the Trump administration — but it’s also coming to the fore with people just searching for solutions, and also searching for a way to describe the things that are already happening. Like these vaccine compacts, or moves by blue-state attorneys general to mount a defensive wall against some of the worst Trump administration incursions, certainly around things like immigration raids and trying to roll back the rights of both citizens and residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, as our law professor here on the show, I’m curious how you see this playing out in the legal community. Obviously, going back a long time to the very founding, this kind of state versus federal power has been an enormous issue in constitutional law and in many other areas. But things are different now, it feels like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I think the term “secession” invites a lot of curiosity, enthusiasm, and aversion. Its provocative nature is a conversation starter. But I think what — and I don’t want to speak for Ms. Jeffrey — but I think what we’re talking about here is decentralization. A reconfiguration of federal-state power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you alluded to, that’s happened at various points in our history — some quite productively, some quite problematically. The energy in this conversation is really about whether federal power, which is being mobilized against large segments of the American people and culture, can be recalibrated in a way that gives states and communities more authority and discretion to chart a different course.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we want to get into the history, it’s very rich with examples that can be mined.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I mean, does it feel uncomfortable, Clara Jeffrey, to feel like you’re arguing for states’ rights? You know, this kind of long-time Republican position?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. There’s very much an irony there. Traditionally, in my lifetime, it’s been the Republican Party — particularly the far right wing — that invoked states’ rights, often to fend off desegregation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yes, it is a flipping of alliances on its head. And I think we’re seeing this play out more and more in real time at higher levels. Just last night, Gavin Newsom basically threatened to walk away from the Governors Association, which has been around for more than a hundred years. And JB Pritzker kind of did the same. They’re saying, “If you’re going to send troops into our state over our objections, in ways that we think are against the law, then we’re not going to be aligned with you in this compact of governors anymore.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So once you start looking around for signs that there’s a grand reconsideration happening, you’ll see it everywhere.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jon, tell us about the kind of legal infrastructure that’s in place here. Going all the way back, but also in the last twenty years — it feels like there’s been a new set of decisions and a new set of understandings in red states about how to resist federal government power that maybe now can be put in play for blue states?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s helpful to frame it that way, because it also points to one of the big challenges. Resistance and noncompliance are a lot easier when you’re not engaged in constructive state-building, when you’re not interested in ensuring that your institutions are well-funded, well-supported, and serving your community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Obstruction — withdrawing from the governors’ union, or pulling back from cooperative federalism arrangements like healthcare or disability insurance — that’s fairly easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Trying to build an alternate infrastructure of support — for our universities, for under-resourced populations — that’s the challenge, and it speaks to the asymmetry here. When states have been noncompliant in the past, they were just putting their foot on the brake. Now, blue states are trying to put their foot on the brake, jump out of the car, and run uphill on their own power.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s why this infrastructure has to be built largely anew. It’s not impossible, but it’s different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. Where my mind goes is the pandemic-era pacts, right? Those had flowered early in the pandemic. But did they actually get things done?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think they did start to fall apart along the politics of various states and cities. But we are seeing new alliances, confederations — whatever you want to call them. The western states, along with Hawaii, have joined into a vaccine alliance. New England has done the same.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I also want to point to a deeper issue: high-population states, California in particular. California has 67 times the population of Wyoming, but the same number of senators. Donald Trump would not be invading blue cities and blue states if there were no Electoral College. He would not risk alienating voters in those states, regardless of political persuasion, because there are just too many people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re seeing some anti-democratic structures, built into the Constitution to appease slave states, become more and more anti-democratic. The unbalanced nature of that has only gotten worse over time. That’s a deeper problem coming to the fore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> People may remember over the years, there have been attempts to turn California into more than one state. There was the “Six Californias” ballot initiative in 2013, and variations of that afterward, but none of them made it forward. What you’re suggesting is not this, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Clara Jeffrey:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m suggesting that people are starting to look at ways to both counter Trump policies and aggressions they see as unlawful and unfair, while also confronting the broader sense that the Senate and the Electoral College — particularly in combination — are deeply undemocratic.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, David writes: “This is political pornography for me. I love the idea of California seceding. I’d like to hear a practical step-by-step of how this could happen rather than just pie in the sky.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">David, we’re not going to talk about literal secession, but about building alternative infrastructures of governance. Jon, this is your work. What does that look like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Michaels:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We could talk about practical policies. One component is collective will: focusing attention on reshaping our states, or clusters of states, so they remain resilient during economic deprivation — like when the federal government cuts funding.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another is preserving and maintaining our resources so they’re not used for punitive purposes — like deploying National Guard men and women against our own residents.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If there’s real commitment here, we could start to build that alternative infrastructure. And to be clear, we’re not talking about going to the gun shop. This is what states can do constructively.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We’re talking with Jon Michaels, professor of law at UCLA School of Law and adviser to the dean on civic engagement. We’ve also got Clara Jeffrey, editor in chief of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and the Center for Investigative Reporting. Her new piece in \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mother Jones\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is “It’s Time for a Soft Secession.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll be back with more on the nuts and bolts of “soft secession” when we return.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911494/is-it-time-for-california-to-consider-a-soft-secession",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"tags": [
"forum_1684"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101911503",
"label": "forum"
},
"forum_2010101911272": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "forum_2010101911272",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "2010101911272",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1758124800000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "how-bruce-lee-helped-shape-asian-american-culture",
"title": "How Bruce Lee Helped Shape Asian American Culture",
"publishDate": 1758063567,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "How Bruce Lee Helped Shape Asian American Culture | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"site": "forum"
},
"content": "\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/8kQ0oR7r0Dw\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "We talk about Bruce Lee's rise as an action star, his impact on the creation of Asian American culture and his special history in the Bay Area.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1761929195,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": false,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 5,
"wordCount": 1490
},
"headData": {
"title": "How Bruce Lee Helped Shape Asian American Culture | KQED",
"description": "We talk about Bruce Lee's rise as an action star, his impact on the creation of Asian American culture and his special history in the Bay Area.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "How Bruce Lee Helped Shape Asian American Culture",
"datePublished": "2025-09-16T15:59:27-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-10-31T09:46:35-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"name": "Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6182545897.mp3?updated=1758137876",
"airdate": 1758124800,
"forumGuests": [
{
"name": "Jeff Chang",
"bio": "\"Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America\" - Chang is also the author of \"We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation,\" \"Who We Be: The Colorization of America\" and \"Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation\""
}
],
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/forum/2010101911272/how-bruce-lee-helped-shape-asian-american-culture",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>Airdate: Wednesday, September 17 at 9AM\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum is now on YouTube. Subscribe to the KQED News YouTube channel and watch the full interview.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Journalist Jeff Chang contends that Bruce Lee, the famed actor and martial arts specialist, is the “most famous person in the world about whom so little is known.” In his new biography of Lee, “Water Mirror Echo,” Chang charts Lee’s rise as an action star and his impact on the creation of Asian American culture. We’ll talk to Chang about his book and about Bruce Lee’s special history in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/8kQ0oR7r0Dw'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cstrong>This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/strong>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"545\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"114\" data-end=\"134\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Welcome to \u003cem data-start=\"146\" data-end=\"153\">Forum\u003c/em>. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Jeff Chang’s new book, \u003cem data-start=\"199\" data-end=\"221\">Water, Mirror, Echo,\u003c/em> is a once-in-a-lifetime endeavor. Working from Bruce Lee’s diaries, letters, and other archival materials, as well as newly translated documents from Hong Kong and much other research, Chang builds a careful portrait of a man and his times — in contrast to the more mythological treatments his fans are prone to give him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"547\" data-end=\"918\">The book is meaty, and it’s as rich for Bruce Lee stalwarts as it is for people like, admittedly, myself, who have a more passing knowledge of the martial artist and actor. Jeff Chang, of course, is also the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"793\" data-end=\"855\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.\u003c/em> And Jeff Chang joins us in the studio this morning. Welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"983\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"920\" data-end=\"935\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It’s great to see you. It’s great to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1125\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"985\" data-end=\"1005\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Yeah, great to have you. Let’s talk a little bit about the title of the book — \u003cem data-start=\"1085\" data-end=\"1107\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> Why that title?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1541\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1127\" data-end=\"1142\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Of course, Bruce’s most famous line is, “Be like water, my friend.” In the process of going through his papers and notes, there’s a book called \u003cem data-start=\"1287\" data-end=\"1313\">The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.\u003c/em> In it were the original lines he had copied from a Chinese philosophy book when he was young, probably eighteen, nineteen, or twenty. The full lines are: “Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1543\" data-end=\"1800\">That just knocked me out. You know when you read something and then have to put the book down and walk around for twenty minutes? It was like that. And as I went through his notes, I could verify that he came back to these three lines throughout his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1802\" data-end=\"2296\">It became a way to structure the story — to think about his life and how to tell it. But also, because Bruce died so prematurely, he was able to inculcate this idea of being like water, being adaptable, being elusive in a fight. He never got to really experience what it would mean to be still like a mirror or to respond like an echo. That happens after his life. He becomes a mirror for millions of people around the world, across multiple generations. And his words continue to echo today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2491\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2298\" data-end=\"2318\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That’s beautiful. Let’s talk about Bruce Lee. We can claim him as a native San Franciscan. He’s born in San Francisco in 1940. Why were his parents in San Francisco then?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2741\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2493\" data-end=\"2508\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> His parents had come to raise money for the Chinese nationalists to defend China against Japanese imperialism and the war raging across China in the 1930s. They were also thinking about what it would mean if Hong Kong got invaded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2743\" data-end=\"3032\">Bruce’s dad was a very famous comedian in Cantonese opera. During times of war, people aren’t going to entertainment, so they were offered a chance to come to San Francisco and then tour the U.S. While they were here, his mom got pregnant. Bruce was born in the Chinese Hospital in 1940.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3160\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3034\" data-end=\"3054\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Wow. That’s a huge deal. Opera in Chinatown at that time was a massive part of Chinese life in America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3522\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3162\" data-end=\"3177\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, and the other important part is that because he’s born in the U.S., he is a U.S. citizen — birthright citizenship. Under today’s debased language around immigration, he’d be called an “anchor baby.” Later in his life, he joked to the press, “Maybe my dad had me in the U.S. by design, or maybe it was just an accident. We’ll never know.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3524\" data-end=\"3919\">I don’t think his parents intended to have another kid. The Chinese Exclusion Act was still in place. Bruce wouldn’t have been able to go anywhere outside of Chinatown. Even when his parents came in, they had to go through Angel Island and endure humiliations. So it’s very unlikely they were trying to move to the U.S. But that American citizenship becomes really important later in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"4063\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3921\" data-end=\"3941\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> But he’s not raised here, right? They’re just on tour. He ends up back in Hong Kong and enters into a brutal situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4372\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4065\" data-end=\"4080\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes, he’s a war child. The Japanese invade Hong Kong on December 8, around the same time as Pearl Harbor. Suddenly Hong Kong is thrown into war and starvation. His father had to work for bags of rice. Bruce nearly starved to death. Many of his young peers and babies around him were dying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4374\" data-end=\"4476\">It’s hard to imagine, when you see Bruce so yoked and invulnerable, that he almost starved to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4687\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4478\" data-end=\"4498\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> And the postwar period in Hong Kong is also wild. It doesn’t just return to peace and tranquility. There are waves of migrants, and as you describe in the book, a lot of street fighting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4808\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4689\" data-end=\"4704\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Yes. When I looked into it, I thought, “Wow, this sounds a lot like the Bronx in the 1960s and ’70s.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4859\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4810\" data-end=\"4830\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> From your work on hip hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"5170\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4861\" data-end=\"4876\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly. The Chinese Civil War ends in 1949, the communists come into power, and refugees pour into Hong Kong — overwhelmingly young people. There’s no housing, the British colonial administration doesn’t care, so they set up shanties and tin huts on hillsides. Fires break out all the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5226\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5172\" data-end=\"5192\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Really is the Bronx is burning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5534\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5228\" data-end=\"5243\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> It is. And in the middle of all this, kids study different kung fu styles, form cliques, and an elaborate fight culture develops. Bruce loved that. He had kind of a bloodlust and studied Wing Chun. He’d get into fights with students of other schools — Choy Li Fut, Eagle Claw, and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5536\" data-end=\"5716\">Fast forward to the 1960s when kung fu movies explode out of Hong Kong: these are the kids who grew up in this culture, now putting on costumes and doing it in front of a camera.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5798\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5718\" data-end=\"5738\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> Pretending it’s a long time ago, as opposed to yesterday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5903\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5800\" data-end=\"5815\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> Exactly — “Is your style better than my style? We’ll find out.” That was the culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"6209\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5905\" data-end=\"5925\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> That was such a revelation to me — that there was a material basis for kung fu movies. Just wild. We’re talking with writer Jeff Chang about his new book, \u003cem data-start=\"6081\" data-end=\"6103\">Water, Mirror, Echo.\u003c/em> It’s about Bruce Lee — film star, martial arts expert, and icon — and how he helped make Asian America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6211\" data-end=\"6370\">Jeff Chang is the author of many other books, including \u003cem data-start=\"6267\" data-end=\"6329\">Can’t Stop, Won’t Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation,\u003c/em> \u003cem data-start=\"6330\" data-end=\"6342\">Who We Be,\u003c/em> and \u003cem data-start=\"6347\" data-end=\"6368\">We Gon’ Be Alright.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6372\" data-end=\"6649\">We want to hear from you. How has Bruce Lee influenced or impacted your life? Maybe you knew Bruce Lee in Oakland or ran into him in San Francisco. Do you have a Bruce Lee story to share? Give us a call at 866-733-6786. That’s 866-733-6786. You can also email \u003ca class=\"decorated-link cursor-pointer\" rel=\"noopener\" data-start=\"6632\" data-end=\"6646\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6651\" data-end=\"6766\">Real quick, Jeff — did you feel an enormous responsibility writing this book? Taking on Bruce Lee feels so tough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"7027\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6768\" data-end=\"6783\">Jeff Chang:\u003c/strong> I did. A friend of mine who made the movie \u003cem data-start=\"6827\" data-end=\"6837\">Be Water\u003c/em> reminded me: for the public, Bruce Lee’s life and the Lee family’s lives are a spectacle. But for the family, these are flesh-and-blood people — a father who’s gone, a brother who’s gone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7029\" data-end=\"7091\">So I did feel a deep responsibility to represent that truth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7178\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7093\" data-end=\"7113\">Alexis Madrigal:\u003c/strong> We’ll be back with more from Jeff Chang right after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/forum/2010101911272/how-bruce-lee-helped-shape-asian-american-culture",
"authors": [
"11757"
],
"categories": [
"forum_1623"
],
"tags": [
"forum_1684"
],
"featImg": "forum_2010101911273",
"label": "forum"
}
},
"programsReducer": {
"all-things-considered": {
"id": "all-things-considered",
"title": "All Things Considered",
"info": "Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/all-things-considered"
},
"american-suburb-podcast": {
"id": "american-suburb-podcast",
"title": "American Suburb: The Podcast",
"tagline": "The flip side of gentrification, told through one town",
"info": "Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/news/series/american-suburb-podcast",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 19
},
"link": "/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"
}
},
"baycurious": {
"id": "baycurious",
"title": "Bay Curious",
"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Bay Curious",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/news/series/baycurious",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 3
},
"link": "/podcasts/baycurious",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9a90d476-aa04-455d-9a4c-0871ed6216d4/bay-curious",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"
}
},
"bbc-world-service": {
"id": "bbc-world-service",
"title": "BBC World Service",
"info": "The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "BBC World Service"
},
"link": "/radio/program/bbc-world-service",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/",
"rss": "https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"
}
},
"californiareport": {
"id": "californiareport",
"title": "The California Report",
"tagline": "California, day by day",
"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The California Report",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-the-california-report/id79681292",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/26099305-72af-4542-9dde-ac1807fe36d5/kqed-s-the-california-report",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432285393/the-california-report",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-the-california-report-podcast-8838",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/tcram/feed/podcast"
}
},
"californiareportmagazine": {
"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Magazine-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The California Report Magazine",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareportmagazine",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 10
},
"link": "/californiareportmagazine",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-california-report-magazine/id1314750545",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/564733126/the-california-report-magazine",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-california-report-magazine",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/tcrmag/feed/podcast"
}
},
"city-arts": {
"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
"subscribe": {
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/City-Arts-and-Lectures-p692/",
"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
"title": "Close All Tabs",
"tagline": "Your irreverent guide to the trends redefining our world",
"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/CAT_2_Tile-scaled.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Close All Tabs",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 1
},
"link": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/close-all-tabs/id214663465",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC6993880386",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/92d9d4ac-67a3-4eed-b10a-fb45d45b1ef2/close-all-tabs",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/6LAJFHnGK1pYXYzv6SIol6?si=deb0cae19813417c"
}
},
"code-switch-life-kit": {
"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
"airtime": "SUN 9pm-10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"
}
},
"commonwealth-club": {
"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/commonwealth-club-of-california-podcast/id976334034?mt=2",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Commonwealth-Club-of-California-p1060/"
}
},
"forum": {
"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/forum",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
"link": "/forum",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-forum/id73329719",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432307980/forum",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-forum-podcast",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9557381633"
}
},
"freakonomics-radio": {
"id": "freakonomics-radio",
"title": "Freakonomics Radio",
"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/4s8b",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/freakonomicsradio"
}
},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 7pm-8pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Fresh-Air-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/fresh-air",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/4s8b",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Fresh-Air-p17/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/381444908/podcast.xml"
}
},
"here-and-now": {
"id": "here-and-now",
"title": "Here & Now",
"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
"airtime": "MON-THU 11am-12pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Here-And-Now-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/here-and-now",
"subsdcribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=426698661",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Here--Now-p211/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
}
},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/hiddenbrain.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain",
"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hidden-brain/id1028908750?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Science-Podcasts/Hidden-Brain-p787503/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510308/podcast.xml"
}
},
"how-i-built-this": {
"id": "how-i-built-this",
"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/3zxy",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/How-I-Built-This-p910896/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510313/podcast.xml"
}
},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
"imageAlt": "KQED Hyphenación",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hyphenaci%C3%B3n/id1191591838",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
"youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/c/kqedarts",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/6c3dd23c-93fb-4aab-97ba-1725fa6315f1/hyphenaci%C3%B3n",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC2275451163"
}
},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/790253322/the-political-mind-of-jerry-brown",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/jerrybrown/feed/podcast/",
"tuneIn": "http://tun.in/pjGcK",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-political-mind-of-jerry-brown",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/54C1dmuyFyKMFttY6X2j6r?si=K8SgRCoISNK6ZbjpXrX5-w",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/44420f75-3b0e-4301-ab3b-16da6b09e543/the-political-mind-of-jerry-brown"
}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/xtTd",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Latino-USA-p621/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=201853034&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/APM-Marketplace-p88/",
"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"
}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"
}
},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "pbs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Perspectives_Tile_Final.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Perspectives",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id73801135",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/perspectives/category/perspectives/feed/",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL2NhdGVnb3J5L3BlcnNwZWN0aXZlcy9mZWVkLw"
}
},
"planet-money": {
"id": "planet-money",
"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/sections/money/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/M4f5",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Business--Economics-Podcasts/Planet-Money-p164680/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510289/podcast.xml"
}
},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Political Breakdown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/political-breakdown/id1327641087",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/e0c2d153-ad36-4c8d-901d-f1da6a724824/political-breakdown",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/572155894/political-breakdown",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/political-breakdown",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/07RVyIjIdk2WDuVehvBMoN",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/political-breakdown/feed/podcast"
}
},
"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
}
},
"pri-the-world": {
"id": "pri-the-world",
"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pri.org/programs/the-world",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "PRI"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pri-the-world",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pris-the-world-latest-edition/id278196007?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/News--Politics-Podcasts/PRIs-The-World-p24/",
"rss": "http://feeds.feedburner.com/pri/theworld"
}
},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
"airtime": "SUN 12am-1am, SAT 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/radiolab1400.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/",
"meta": {
"site": "science",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/radiolab",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/radiolab/id152249110?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/RadioLab-p68032/",
"rss": "https://feeds.wnyc.org/radiolab"
}
},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
"airtime": "SAT 4pm-5pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/reveal300px.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/reveal",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/reveal/id886009669",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Reveal-p679597/",
"rss": "http://feeds.revealradio.org/revealpodcast"
}
},
"rightnowish": {
"id": "rightnowish",
"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Rightnowish-Podcast-Tile-500x500-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Rightnowish with Pendarvis Harshaw",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/rightnowish",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 16
},
"link": "/podcasts/rightnowish",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/programs/rightnowish/feed/podcast",
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMxMjU5MTY3NDc4",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I"
}
},
"science-friday": {
"id": "science-friday",
"title": "Science Friday",
"info": "Science Friday is a weekly science talk show, broadcast live over public radio stations nationwide. Each week, the show focuses on science topics that are in the news and tries to bring an educated, balanced discussion to bear on the scientific issues at hand. Panels of expert guests join host Ira Flatow, a veteran science journalist, to discuss science and to take questions from listeners during the call-in portion of the program.",
"airtime": "FRI 11am-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Science-Friday-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/science-friday",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/science-friday",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=73329284&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Science-Friday-p394/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/science-friday"
}
},
"snap-judgment": {
"id": "snap-judgment",
"title": "Snap Judgment",
"tagline": "Real stories with killer beats",
"info": "The Snap Judgment radio show and podcast mixes real stories with killer beats to produce cinematic, dramatic radio. Snap's musical brand of storytelling dares listeners to see the world through the eyes of another. This is storytelling... with a BEAT!! Snap first aired on public radio stations nationwide in July 2010. Today, Snap Judgment airs on over 450 public radio stations and is brought to the airwaves by KQED & PRX.",
"airtime": "SAT 1pm-2pm, 9pm-10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Snap-Judgment-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Snap Judgment",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://snapjudgment.org",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 4
},
"link": "https://snapjudgment.org",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/snap-judgment/id283657561",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/449018144/snap-judgment",
"stitcher": "https://www.pandora.com/podcast/snap-judgment/PC:241?source=stitcher-sunset",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3Cct7ZWmxHNAtLgBTqjC5v",
"rss": "https://snap.feed.snapjudgment.org/"
}
},
"soldout": {
"id": "soldout",
"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
"tagline": "A new future for housing",
"info": "Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Sold-Out-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/soldout",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 13
},
"link": "/podcasts/soldout",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/911586047/s-o-l-d-o-u-t-a-new-future-for-housing",
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/introducing-sold-out-rethinking-housing-in-america/id1531354937",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/soldout",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/38dTBSk2ISFoPiyYNoKn1X",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/sold-out-rethinking-housing-in-america",
"tunein": "https://tunein.com/radio/SOLD-OUT-Rethinking-Housing-in-America-p1365871/"
}
},
"spooked": {
"id": "spooked",
"title": "Spooked",
"tagline": "True-life supernatural stories",
"info": "",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Spooked-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Spooked",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://spookedpodcast.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 7
},
"link": "https://spookedpodcast.org/",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spooked/id1279361017",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/549547848/snap-judgment-presents-spooked",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/76571Rfl3m7PLJQZKQIGCT",
"rss": "https://feeds.simplecast.com/TBotaapn"
}
},
"tech-nation": {
"id": "tech-nation",
"title": "Tech Nation Radio Podcast",
"info": "Tech Nation is a weekly public radio program, hosted by Dr. Moira Gunn. Founded in 1993, it has grown from a simple interview show to a multi-faceted production, featuring conversations with noted technology and science leaders, and a weekly science and technology-related commentary.",
"airtime": "FRI 10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Tech-Nation-Radio-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://technation.podomatic.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "science",
"source": "Tech Nation Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/tech-nation",
"subscribe": {
"rss": "https://technation.podomatic.com/rss2.xml"
}
},
"ted-radio-hour": {
"id": "ted-radio-hour",
"title": "TED Radio Hour",
"info": "The TED Radio Hour is a journey through fascinating ideas, astonishing inventions, fresh approaches to old problems, and new ways to think and create.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm, SAT 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/tedRadioHour.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/?showDate=2018-06-22",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/ted-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/8vsS",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=523121474&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/TED-Radio-Hour-p418021/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510298/podcast.xml"
}
},
"thebay": {
"id": "thebay",
"title": "The Bay",
"tagline": "Local news to keep you rooted",
"info": "Host Devin Katayama walks you through the biggest story of the day with reporters and newsmakers.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Bay-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Bay",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/thebay",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 2
},
"link": "/podcasts/thebay",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bay/id1350043452",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/d800ea4c-7a2c-42f2-b861-edaf78a5db0b/the-bay",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/586725995/the-bay",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-bay",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/4BIKBKIujizLHlIlBNaAqQ",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC8259786327"
}
},
"thelatest": {
"id": "thelatest",
"title": "The Latest",
"tagline": "Trusted local news in real time",
"info": "",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/The-Latest-2025-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Latest",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/thelatest",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 6
},
"link": "/thelatest",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-latest-from-kqed/id1197721799",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/1257949365/the-latest-from-k-q-e-d",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/5KIIXMgM9GTi5AepwOYvIZ?si=bd3053fec7244dba",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9137121918"
}
},
"theleap": {
"id": "theleap",
"title": "The Leap",
"tagline": "What if you closed your eyes, and jumped?",
"info": "Stories about people making dramatic, risky changes, told by award-winning public radio reporter Judy Campbell.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Leap-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Leap",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/theleap",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 17
},
"link": "/podcasts/theleap",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leap/id1046668171",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/447248267/the-leap",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-leap",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3sSlVHHzU0ytLwuGs1SD1U",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/programs/the-leap/feed/podcast"
}
},
"the-moth-radio-hour": {
"id": "the-moth-radio-hour",
"title": "The Moth Radio Hour",
"info": "Since its launch in 1997, The Moth has presented thousands of true stories, told live and without notes, to standing-room-only crowds worldwide. Moth storytellers stand alone, under a spotlight, with only a microphone and a roomful of strangers. The storyteller and the audience embark on a high-wire act of shared experience which is both terrifying and exhilarating. Since 2008, The Moth podcast has featured many of our favorite stories told live on Moth stages around the country. For information on all of our programs and live events, visit themoth.org.",
"airtime": "SAT 8pm-9pm and SUN 11am-12pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/theMoth.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://themoth.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "prx"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-moth-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-moth-podcast/id275699983?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/The-Moth-p273888/",
"rss": "http://feeds.themoth.org/themothpodcast"
}
},
"the-new-yorker-radio-hour": {
"id": "the-new-yorker-radio-hour",
"title": "The New Yorker Radio Hour",
"info": "The New Yorker Radio Hour is a weekly program presented by the magazine's editor, David Remnick, and produced by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Each episode features a diverse mix of interviews, profiles, storytelling, and an occasional burst of humor inspired by the magazine, and shaped by its writers, artists, and editors. This isn't a radio version of a magazine, but something all its own, reflecting the rich possibilities of audio storytelling and conversation. Theme music for the show was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of tUnE-YArDs.",
"airtime": "SAT 10am-11am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-New-Yorker-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/tnyradiohour",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-new-yorker-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1050430296",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/New-Yorker-Radio-Hour-p803804/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/newyorkerradiohour"
}
},
"the-sam-sanders-show": {
"id": "the-sam-sanders-show",
"title": "The Sam Sanders Show",
"info": "One of public radio's most dynamic voices, Sam Sanders helped launch The NPR Politics Podcast and hosted NPR's hit show It's Been A Minute. Now, the award-winning host returns with something brand new, The Sam Sanders Show. Every week, Sam Sanders and friends dig into the culture that shapes our lives: what's driving the biggest trends, how artists really think, and even the memes you can't stop scrolling past. Sam is beloved for his way of unpacking the world and bringing you up close to fresh currents and engaging conversations. The Sam Sanders Show is smart, funny and always a good time.",
"airtime": "FRI 12-1pm AND SAT 11am-12pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/The-Sam-Sanders-Show-Podcast-Tile-400x400-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.kcrw.com/shows/the-sam-sanders-show/latest",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "KCRW"
},
"link": "https://www.kcrw.com/shows/the-sam-sanders-show/latest",
"subscribe": {
"rss": "https://feed.cdnstream1.com/zjb/feed/download/ac/28/59/ac28594c-e1d0-4231-8728-61865cdc80e8.xml"
}
},
"the-splendid-table": {
"id": "the-splendid-table",
"title": "The Splendid Table",
"info": "\u003cem>The Splendid Table\u003c/em> hosts our nation's conversations about cooking, sustainability and food culture.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Splendid-Table-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.splendidtable.org/",
"airtime": "SUN 10-11 pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-splendid-table"
},
"this-american-life": {
"id": "this-american-life",
"title": "This American Life",
"info": "This American Life is a weekly public radio show, heard by 2.2 million people on more than 500 stations. Another 2.5 million people download the weekly podcast. It is hosted by Ira Glass, produced in collaboration with Chicago Public Media, delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange, and has won all of the major broadcasting awards.",
"airtime": "SAT 12pm-1pm, 7pm-8pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/thisAmericanLife.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.thisamericanlife.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "wbez"
},
"link": "/radio/program/this-american-life",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=201671138&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"rss": "https://www.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/rss.xml"
}
},
"tinydeskradio": {
"id": "tinydeskradio",
"title": "Tiny Desk Radio",
"info": "We're bringing the best of Tiny Desk to the airwaves, only on public radio.",
"airtime": "SUN 8pm and SAT 9pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/300x300-For-Member-Station-Logo-Tiny-Desk-Radio-@2x.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/g-s1-52030/tiny-desk-radio",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/tinydeskradio",
"subscribe": {
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/g-s1-52030/rss.xml"
}
},
"wait-wait-dont-tell-me": {
"id": "wait-wait-dont-tell-me",
"title": "Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!",
"info": "Peter Sagal and Bill Kurtis host the weekly NPR News quiz show alongside some of the best and brightest news and entertainment personalities.",
"airtime": "SUN 10am-11am, SAT 11am-12pm, SAT 6pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Wait-Wait-Podcast-Tile-300x300-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/wait-wait-dont-tell-me/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/wait-wait-dont-tell-me",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/Xogv",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=121493804&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Wait-Wait-Dont-Tell-Me-p46/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/344098539/podcast.xml"
}
},
"weekend-edition-saturday": {
"id": "weekend-edition-saturday",
"title": "Weekend Edition Saturday",
"info": "Weekend Edition Saturday wraps up the week's news and offers a mix of analysis and features on a wide range of topics, including arts, sports, entertainment, and human interest stories. The two-hour program is hosted by NPR's Peabody Award-winning Scott Simon.",
"airtime": "SAT 5am-10am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Weekend-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-saturday/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/weekend-edition-saturday"
},
"weekend-edition-sunday": {
"id": "weekend-edition-sunday",
"title": "Weekend Edition Sunday",
"info": "Weekend Edition Sunday features interviews with newsmakers, artists, scientists, politicians, musicians, writers, theologians and historians. The program has covered news events from Nelson Mandela's 1990 release from a South African prison to the capture of Saddam Hussein.",
"airtime": "SUN 5am-10am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Weekend-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-sunday/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/weekend-edition-sunday"
}
},
"racesReducer": {},
"racesGenElectionReducer": {},
"radioSchedulesReducer": {},
"listsReducer": {
"posts/forum?&queryId=870ab71588": {
"isFetching": false,
"latestQuery": {
"from": 0,
"postsToRender": 3
},
"tag": null,
"vitalsOnly": true,
"totalRequested": 3,
"isLoading": false,
"isLoadingMore": true,
"total": {
"value": 10000,
"relation": "gte"
},
"items": [
"forum_2010101913837",
"forum_2010101913834",
"forum_2010101913824"
]
},
"posts/forum?series=in-search-of-home&queryId=855a345d62": {
"isFetching": false,
"latestQuery": {
"from": 0,
"postsToRender": 3
},
"tag": null,
"vitalsOnly": true,
"totalRequested": 3,
"isLoading": false,
"isLoadingMore": true,
"total": {
"value": 4,
"relation": "eq"
},
"items": [
"forum_2010101911792",
"forum_2010101911606",
"forum_2010101911397"
]
},
"posts/forum?tag=forum-on-youtube&queryId=4089d66d0c": {
"isFetching": false,
"latestQuery": {
"from": 0,
"postsToRender": 3
},
"tag": null,
"vitalsOnly": true,
"totalRequested": 3,
"isLoading": false,
"isLoadingMore": true,
"total": {
"value": 29,
"relation": "eq"
},
"items": [
"forum_2010101911674",
"forum_2010101911494",
"forum_2010101911272"
]
}
},
"recallGuideReducer": {
"intros": {},
"policy": {},
"candidates": {}
},
"savedArticleReducer": {
"articles": [],
"status": {}
},
"pfsSessionReducer": {},
"subscriptionsReducer": {},
"termsReducer": {
"about": {
"name": "About",
"type": "terms",
"id": "about",
"slug": "about",
"link": "/about",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"arts": {
"name": "Arts & Culture",
"grouping": [
"arts",
"pop",
"trulyca"
],
"description": "KQED Arts provides daily in-depth coverage of the Bay Area's music, art, film, performing arts, literature and arts news, as well as cultural commentary and criticism.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "arts",
"slug": "arts",
"link": "/arts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"artschool": {
"name": "Art School",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "artschool",
"slug": "artschool",
"link": "/artschool",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"bayareabites": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "bayareabites",
"slug": "bayareabites",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"bayareahiphop": {
"name": "Bay Area Hiphop",
"type": "terms",
"id": "bayareahiphop",
"slug": "bayareahiphop",
"link": "/bayareahiphop",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"campaign21": {
"name": "Campaign 21",
"type": "terms",
"id": "campaign21",
"slug": "campaign21",
"link": "/campaign21",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"checkplease": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "checkplease",
"slug": "checkplease",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"education": {
"name": "Education",
"grouping": [
"education"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "education",
"slug": "education",
"link": "/education",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"elections": {
"name": "Elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "elections",
"slug": "elections",
"link": "/elections",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"events": {
"name": "Events",
"type": "terms",
"id": "events",
"slug": "events",
"link": "/events",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"event": {
"name": "Event",
"alias": "events",
"type": "terms",
"id": "event",
"slug": "event",
"link": "/event",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"filmschoolshorts": {
"name": "Film School Shorts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "filmschoolshorts",
"slug": "filmschoolshorts",
"link": "/filmschoolshorts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"food": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "food",
"slug": "food",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"forum": {
"name": "Forum",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/forum?",
"parent": "news",
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum",
"slug": "forum",
"link": "/forum",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"futureofyou": {
"name": "Future of You",
"grouping": [
"science",
"futureofyou"
],
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "futureofyou",
"slug": "futureofyou",
"link": "/futureofyou",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"jpepinheart": {
"name": "KQED food",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/food,bayareabites,checkplease",
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "jpepinheart",
"slug": "jpepinheart",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"liveblog": {
"name": "Live Blog",
"type": "terms",
"id": "liveblog",
"slug": "liveblog",
"link": "/liveblog",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"livetv": {
"name": "Live TV",
"parent": "tv",
"type": "terms",
"id": "livetv",
"slug": "livetv",
"link": "/livetv",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"lowdown": {
"name": "The Lowdown",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/lowdown?",
"parent": "news",
"type": "terms",
"id": "lowdown",
"slug": "lowdown",
"link": "/lowdown",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"mindshift": {
"name": "Mindshift",
"parent": "news",
"description": "MindShift explores the future of education by highlighting the innovative – and sometimes counterintuitive – ways educators and parents are helping all children succeed.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift",
"slug": "mindshift",
"link": "/mindshift",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"news": {
"name": "News",
"grouping": [
"news",
"forum"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "news",
"slug": "news",
"link": "/news",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"perspectives": {
"name": "Perspectives",
"parent": "radio",
"type": "terms",
"id": "perspectives",
"slug": "perspectives",
"link": "/perspectives",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"podcasts": {
"name": "Podcasts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "podcasts",
"slug": "podcasts",
"link": "/podcasts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"pop": {
"name": "Pop",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "pop",
"slug": "pop",
"link": "/pop",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"pressroom": {
"name": "Pressroom",
"type": "terms",
"id": "pressroom",
"slug": "pressroom",
"link": "/pressroom",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"quest": {
"name": "Quest",
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "quest",
"slug": "quest",
"link": "/quest",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"radio": {
"name": "Radio",
"grouping": [
"forum",
"perspectives"
],
"description": "Listen to KQED Public Radio – home of Forum and The California Report – on 88.5 FM in San Francisco, 89.3 FM in Sacramento, 88.3 FM in Santa Rosa and 88.1 FM in Martinez.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "radio",
"slug": "radio",
"link": "/radio",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"root": {
"name": "KQED",
"image": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png",
"imageWidth": 1200,
"imageHeight": 630,
"headData": {
"title": "KQED | News, Radio, Podcasts, TV | Public Media for Northern California",
"description": "KQED provides public radio, television, and independent reporting on issues that matter to the Bay Area. We’re the NPR and PBS member station for Northern California."
},
"type": "terms",
"id": "root",
"slug": "root",
"link": "/root",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"science": {
"name": "Science",
"grouping": [
"science",
"futureofyou"
],
"description": "KQED Science brings you award-winning science and environment coverage from the Bay Area and beyond.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "science",
"slug": "science",
"link": "/science",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"stateofhealth": {
"name": "State of Health",
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "stateofhealth",
"slug": "stateofhealth",
"link": "/stateofhealth",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"support": {
"name": "Support",
"type": "terms",
"id": "support",
"slug": "support",
"link": "/support",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"thedolist": {
"name": "The Do List",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "thedolist",
"slug": "thedolist",
"link": "/thedolist",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"trulyca": {
"name": "Truly CA",
"grouping": [
"arts",
"pop",
"trulyca"
],
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "trulyca",
"slug": "trulyca",
"link": "/trulyca",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"tv": {
"name": "TV",
"type": "terms",
"id": "tv",
"slug": "tv",
"link": "/tv",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"voterguide": {
"name": "Voter Guide",
"parent": "elections",
"alias": "elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "voterguide",
"slug": "voterguide",
"link": "/voterguide",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"guiaelectoral": {
"name": "Guia Electoral",
"parent": "elections",
"alias": "elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "guiaelectoral",
"slug": "guiaelectoral",
"link": "/guiaelectoral",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"forum_1623": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1623",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1623",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Podcast",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "category",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Podcast Archives - KQED Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1623,
"slug": "podcast",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/category/podcast"
},
"forum_1649": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1649",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1649",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Climate",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Climate Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1649,
"slug": "climate",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/climate"
},
"forum_1646": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1646",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1646",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Health",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Health Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1646,
"slug": "health",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/health"
},
"forum_3": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_3",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "3",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Forum",
"description": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> finds the most interesting stories about where we live and who we are, and charts where our region and world are headed. Hosts Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal invite communities in the Bay Area and California to engage in meaningful conversation in a two-hour live show that informs and challenges listeners with big ideas and different viewpoints.\u003c/p>\r\n\u003cp>At 9 a.m., Alexis gives the mic to the Bay Area, from San Rafael to San Jose, and at 10 a.m. with Mina, the perspective widens to all of California.Want to call/submit your comments during our live \u003cem>Forum\u003c/em> program Mon-Fri, 9am-11am? We'd love to hear from you! Please dial 866.SF.FORUM or \u003cstrong>(866) 733-6786\u003c/strong>, email \u003ca href=\"mailto:forum@kqed.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">forum@kqed.org\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/search?q=%40kqedforum\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">tweet\u003c/a>, or post on \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/KQEDForum/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Facebook\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>",
"taxonomy": "program",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": "Forum finds the most interesting stories about where we live and who we are, and charts where our region and world are headed. Hosts Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal invite communities in the Bay Area and California to engage in meaningful conversation in a two-hour live show that informs and challenges listeners with big ideas and different viewpoints. At 9 a.m., Alexis gives the mic to the Bay Area, from San Rafael to San Jose, and at 10 a.m. with Mina, the perspective widens to all of California.Want to call/submit your comments during our live Forum program Mon-Fri, 9am-11am? We'd love to hear from you! Please dial 866.SF.FORUM or (866) 733-6786, email forum@kqed.org, tweet, or post on Facebook.",
"title": "Forum Archives | KQED Arts",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 3,
"slug": "forum",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/program/forum"
},
"forum_1688": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1688",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1688",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"name": "In Search of Home",
"slug": "in-search-of-home",
"taxonomy": "series",
"description": "A new series that explores how homelessness happens and what it takes to move people into permanent homes.",
"featImg": null,
"headData": {
"title": "In Search of Home - Forum",
"description": "A new series that explores how homelessness happens and what it takes to move people into permanent homes.",
"ogTitle": null,
"ogDescription": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"twDescription": null,
"twImgId": null
},
"ttid": 1688,
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/series/in-search-of-home"
},
"forum_1638": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1638",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1638",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Housing",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Housing Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1638,
"slug": "housing",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/housing"
},
"forum_1684": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1684",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1684",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"name": "Forum on YouTube",
"slug": "forum-on-youtube",
"taxonomy": "tag",
"description": null,
"featImg": null,
"headData": {
"title": "Forum on YouTube - KQED Forum",
"description": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogDescription": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"twDescription": null,
"twImgId": null
},
"ttid": 1684,
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/tag/forum-on-youtube"
},
"forum_1635": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1635",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1635",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Arts and Culture",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Arts and Culture Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1635,
"slug": "arts-and-culture",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/arts-and-culture"
},
"forum_1648": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1648",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1648",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Entertainment",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Entertainment Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1648,
"slug": "entertainment",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/entertainment"
},
"forum_1637": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1637",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1637",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "California",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "California Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1637,
"slug": "california",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/california"
},
"forum_1633": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1633",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1633",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Local Politics",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Local Politics Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1633,
"slug": "local-politics",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/local-politics"
},
"forum_1628": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum_1628",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "forum",
"id": "1628",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "San Francisco",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "San Francisco Archives - Forum",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 1628,
"slug": "san-francisco",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/forum/interest/san-francisco"
}
},
"userAgentReducer": {
"userAgent": "Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com)",
"isBot": true
},
"userPermissionsReducer": {
"wpLoggedIn": false
},
"localStorageReducer": {},
"browserHistoryReducer": [],
"eventsReducer": {},
"fssReducer": {},
"tvDailyScheduleReducer": {},
"tvWeeklyScheduleReducer": {},
"tvPrimetimeScheduleReducer": {},
"tvMonthlyScheduleReducer": {},
"userAccountReducer": {
"user": {
"email": null,
"emailStatus": "EMAIL_UNVALIDATED",
"loggedStatus": "LOGGED_OUT",
"loggingChecked": false,
"articles": [],
"firstName": null,
"lastName": null,
"phoneNumber": null,
"fetchingMembership": false,
"membershipError": false,
"memberships": [
{
"id": null,
"startDate": null,
"firstName": null,
"lastName": null,
"familyNumber": null,
"memberNumber": null,
"memberSince": null,
"expirationDate": null,
"pfsEligible": false,
"isSustaining": false,
"membershipLevel": "Prospect",
"membershipStatus": "Non Member",
"lastGiftDate": null,
"renewalDate": null,
"lastDonationAmount": null
}
]
},
"authModal": {
"isOpen": false,
"view": "LANDING_VIEW"
},
"error": null
},
"youthMediaReducer": {},
"checkPleaseReducer": {
"filterData": {
"region": {
"key": "Restaurant Region",
"filters": [
"Any Region"
]
},
"cuisine": {
"key": "Restaurant Cuisine",
"filters": [
"Any Cuisine"
]
}
},
"restaurantDataById": {},
"restaurantIdsSorted": [],
"error": null
},
"location": {
"pathname": "/forum",
"previousPathname": "/"
}
}