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"content": "\u003cp>On this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka is joined by The Bay’s senior editor Alan Montecillo and KQED associate arts and culture editor Nastia Voynovskaya. We talk about the Pickett Fire currently burning in Napa, scheduling and payment changes to public transit across the Bay, and why some local artists have decided to take their music off Spotify.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1460162369&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2025/8/21/pickett-fire\">Pickett Fire\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/napa/pickett-fire-napa-cause-woodbridge/\">Did ‘escaped control burn’ cause Napa County’s Pickett Fire? Dispatch records raise questions about blaze’s origin\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12052690/bart-fares-2025-credit-card-clipper-tap-and-ride-contactless\">Starting This Week, You Can Tap Onto BART With a Credit Card — Here’s How\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13978141/deerhoof-quits-spotify-daniel-ek-700-million-military-ai-investment\">SF Band Ditches Spotify Over CEO’s $700M Military AI Investment\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2025/news20250811\">Bay Area transit’s latest Big Sync improves transfers, saving riders up to 20 minutes per trip\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:02] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to our August news roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that The Bay team and today a special guest have been following this month. I’m joined by senior editor, Alan Montecillo. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:21] Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And our very special guest today is Nastia Vojnovskaya, associate editor of arts and culture for KQED. Hey Nastia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] Hi Ericka!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:30] Thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:35] Before we dig into the stories that we’ve been following, Nastia, we wanted to have you on because it’s been a pretty busy August for you and the Arts Desk. Can you tell us a little bit about all the things you’ve been covering this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:49] It’s music festival season and full swing in the Bay Area. So earlier this month, I had the pleasure of covering Outside Lands. Um, I cover it every year. And this was a particularly good one where had I not been covering, I would have definitely wanted to be there for fun. Super standout performance by Doechii, who was not even a headliner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] Wow. I was just going to ask what were your favorite sets?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:01:25] She already had been at the top of my list of artists I’m watching, just based on her super strong album from last year, Alligator Bites Never Heal. And she just really showed everyone what showmanship and what being a performer is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:01:52] She can rap with the dexterity of Kendrick Lamar while moving like Megan Thee Stallion with no backing track. And then the whole performance was also formatted with this cheeky classroom lesson theme about hip hop. There were also so many homages to who came before and where she came from while creating this super futuristic vision.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:16] August was kind of the month of music festivals or concerts in Golden Gate Park, right? There was Denton Company, Outside Lands, Zach Bryan. With Outside Lands how did it compare to previous years? And I mean, how do you know as an attendee and as someone covering it, whether it was like a big success compared to years past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:02:35] I would say this year they did some very, very savvy booking. So in addition to Doechii, they had Doja Cat and also Tyler, The Creator. Tyler, he had played Outside Lands before, so when they announced it back in April, I was like, okay, I’m excited to see him again. I like him. But shortly before the festival, he released a fantastic new album. And it’s called Don’t Tap the Glass and the whole theme of that album is being present for the music in person and not being on your phone. And you kind of saw that translate in the crowd the way that people were so engaged. There were some really smart choices of well-positioned breakout acts that they booked. There’s this Brooklyn indie band whose name unfortunately we cannot say on the Radio, and it’s spelled F-C-U-K-E-R-S. And they played this smaller side stage earlier in the day. And I was so impressed by just how they packed out that stage with teens and 20-somethings who were just in this very dense crowd jumping up and down. They kind of have this indie sleaze vibe with electronics and live instruments and just like very sassy vocals. It’s very children of brat. And that band actually had a super packed high energy show, The Rickshaw Stop the night before. So I was just very impressed by how the festival had this mix of established and breaking acts that I think are about to be a lot bigger soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:05] I know LaRussell also performed at Outside Lands, and we also did a really amazing event with him this month as well. More on that on the show next month, actually. We did a real cool music showcase with LaRussall and the Good Company team. Really got to see some amazing artists locally, and we’re gonna do an interview with the winner next month. So look out for that, listeners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:34] I have a confession to make. I live next to the park. I have lived next to park for several years and I haven’t been to outside lands yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:04:41] But at least you can hear it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:43] I can hear it, I can definitely hear it. Some of my neighbors don’t love the fact that they can hear it, but I don’t mind. I should go and I will go. It’s expensive, but from what I hear, it’s worth it. I will get around to it, but I’m always a little embarrassed whenever this comes up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:59] Very clutch parking spot in front of his house, if you’re an outside lens attendee. Not that I’m offering it to our listeners. Well we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back we’re going to dig into all the stories that we have been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:27] Let’s go ahead and dive into some of the other stories that we have been following this month. Alan, I wanna start with you and you’ve been following the Pickett Fire in Napa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:05:38] Yes, after a cold summer, a robust marine layer, Karl the Fog, out in full force, we are essentially in peak fire season from now until winter, basically, when it starts raining. And over the last week, we’ve had what has been the largest fire in the Bay Area so far, which is the Pickett fire. As of this taping, so Thursday morning, it has burned about 6,800 acres and is about 33% contained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yeah, and obviously whenever it comes to fire in the Bay Area, I think one of the main ways folks experience it is air quality, and I’ve been really watching that very closely. But can you tell us a little bit about where the fire is burning exactly? I know it’s pretty close to some big wineries in Napa, right, who are just about to approach harvest season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] Yeah. So the fire broke out on the 21st of August along Pickett road in Napa County, just outside the town of Calistoga near several vineyards. So this fire is firmly, you know, in wine country, you know, In terms of smoke, the air quality management district did lift that advisory on Tuesday. So hopefully it’s not too bad anymore, but there’s still many areas where there are evacuation orders or evacuation warnings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:07:00] So has it burned down any residential areas?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:03] So far, it doesn’t seem like that’s happened. Not all the damage has been assessed yet. It seems like the main damage that’s been done, apart from smoke that can be hazardous to people’s health, is to crops. As Ericka mentioned, it is harvest season for these wineries. One early estimate from the county ag commissioner says approximately 1,500 acres of crops have been affected either by fire, by heat, or by smoke. Totaling and estimated, and again this is preliminary, about $65 million in damage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] Oh, wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] And what that means in a practical sense is, are wine grapes going to get ruined by the fire? This happened in 2020. And so the question just is, could that happen again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:07:50] Do you know how the wine industry has been adapting to that, if at all?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] Winemakers say, you know, over the last decade or so, the industry is trying to push for more research to figure out how to reduce the taste of smoke and minimize the effects of wildfire because you know it’s hard to tell immediately if the smoke has ruined your grapes. You won’t really know until you taste it. And there actually isn’t a ton of research yet on how to at least mitigate that. So maybe you do have smoke in your area because fire is a reality in California, but maybe there’s ways to minimize the taste and save the crops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:08:23] And I know it usually takes a while to figure out how a fire actually started, but do we know anything about how this fire in Napa began?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:33] So that is still under investigation. We don’t know for sure. But there have been some questions and details trickling out, and reporters asking whether this fire started as the result of a “escaped control burn”, basically a fire that’s intended to reduce vegetation on a property. The Press Democrat noted that those words, escape control, burn, appeared on a Cal Fire public safety dispatch around the same time the fire was reported. For what it’s worth, the winery in question said through a spokesperson, you know, we’re working with fire investigators. This is premature. So nothing has been confirmed officially yet, but there are some worries that this could have been how the fire started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] Well, Alan, thank you so much for sharing that story with us. We’re going to be following that one in the weeks ahead, I’m sure. Moving on to the story that I have been following this month, Nastia, Alan, you’re both public transit writers in the Bay Area, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:09:39] Yes, I took BART here this morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:09:42] I’m a regular N rider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:44] Nice and of course I’m a regular ferry rider and this might be of interest to all of us in this room. Some big changes have been happening to public transit in the Bay Area that is really all about making transit easier to ride. Not sure if you all have started using your debit or credit cards to ride BART but that is now a thing that you can do. And there’s also something called the Big Sync that is happening. Basically, all these transit systems in the Bay Area coordinating to make transfers a lot easier if you’re using one or more transit system. It’s about time. Right. I remember going to New York a couple of years ago and being able to ride the subway by just tapping my credit card. And as a tourist. I was amazed. I was mind blown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:10:43] Yeah, when they got rid of paper tickets and introduced clipper cards, I honestly always found it really problematic that if you lose your clipper card, you have to spend three dollars or something to get a new plastic card. And if you’re a low-income rider, you know that’s money you could be using for a meal. So I’m glad that they’re changing the way it’s done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, and it also brings BART closer to transit systems that already have this. You mentioned this already. New York has it. Chicago has it, many places overseas have it already. Sadly, for those of us who travel among multiple transit agencies, so let’s say you’re going BART to Muni like you do, it hasn’t come to Muni yet, right? You’ll still tap your credit card for BART and then use something else for Muni.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:25] Yeah, fumble to find your other plastic card to ride Muni. Yes, that is correct. This open payment system, as it’s called, of using a debit card or a credit card has not rolled out for Muni yet, but that kind of is the goal. Bay Area Transit officials say that they do want to use this eventually for all regional operators, Muni, Caltrain, AC Transit. So TBD for you, Alan. But I will say there is still something for Muni writers in the month of August, which is this big sink that I’m talking about. Have any of you heard of that? No, tell us more. So if you’re using more than one transit system, so you’re going from BART to Muni, all these agencies have tried to overhaul their schedules in order to make transfers a lot easier and a lot faster. So the focus is really for transfer hubs. In the Bay Area, so Dublin Pleasanton, BART, Daly City BART, Palo Alto Caltrain, and Concord BART Station. In all, these agencies adjusted 18 bus routes at these four hubs to improve connection times with each other. No more sprinting from Caltrain to BART for example. These agencies are saying that these changes account for a 33% increase in weekday ideal transfers. So basically you get five to 10 minutes in between one transit system to another to calmly start your morning and walk to your next transfer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:13:08] That’s gonna make a big difference for a lot of people, because I talk to so many people that want to ride public transit more, but oftentimes it just takes so much longer than driving or getting a rideshare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] Right, exactly. You know, these agencies, these transportation agencies that have been really struggling since the pandemic, they got a lot of work to do to get people back on busses and trains, right? And this is really part of it. In terms of the why, this is part of an ongoing implementation of what’s known as the Bay Area Transformation Action Plan from 2021, which is all about improving public transit, making it more user-friendly. And creating a more connected system among all these different transit agencies around the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:13:54] Love to see it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:55] See you on the N, or the 22…maybe I shouldn’t give out —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:58] Yeah you’re right. We’re just getting closer and closer to figuring out where Alan Montecillo lives in this episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:15] Well, that is the story that I have been following. Nastia, we’re gonna wrap this one up with you. What story have you been following this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:14:24] I’ve been following the story of cultural boycotts. So in late July, a bunch of artists announced that they’re taking their music off Spotify because the CEO, Daniel Ek actually just became the chairman of an AI weapons company called Helsing. In light of Israel’s war in Gaza, a lot of artists have been thinking in past couple of years, how… Cultural institutions and companies that serve the culture sector can be complicit in war profiteering. Gabe Moline from KQED Arts wrote a great piece about how Dear Hoof, which is an indie band that formed in San Francisco and are pretty big, announced taking their music off Spotify. And another big voice in that has been Kadia Bonet, who’s this great singer-songwriter, also from the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:19] How much of a financial hit would artists take for deciding to pull their music off something like Spotify, which obviously is huge, you know, so many people use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:15:28] Well, just based off streams, honestly, negligible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:32] Because they don’t get paid that much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:32] They do not. They do not get paid much at all. I’ve actually been covering artists’ fight for better pay on streaming services for a few years now. And Spotify doesn’t release its exact figures of how much it pays, but the general estimate going around in the industry is that they get a third of a cent per stream. So basically to make the equivalent of earning $15 an hour at a full time job, an artist would have to get over 650,000 Spotify streams per month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:06] Oh my gosh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/strong> [00:16:06] So you have to be very popular to even see any amount of money. Most of the money in the music industry is in touring, but of course, Spotify does have a lot of clout. There’s a lot clout attached to being featured in a prominent playlist and having your music served up. To listeners, but despite that, there are a lot of artists that have been saying the way that Spotify is set up is rigged against the small indie artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:32] This is making me think about the story of the Bay Area DJs who protested boiler room for coming to San Francisco because of the company’s investments in the defense industry in Israel. Sort of the same kind of deal, and I feel like Bay Area artists really like putting their foot down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:16:53] Yeah, very similar. My good friend Olivia Cruz Mayeda covered that story for SF Chronicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:59] Shout out Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:17:00] Yeah, shout out Olivia! Boiler Room, for those that don’t know, it’s this huge online platform for DJs and they basically go to all these really cool music scenes from around the world and produce these really high quality videos of DJs killing it at parties that really puts you in the scene. So in previous years, being in BoilerRoom for a DJ was a stamp of approval. So it was a really big deal that all these smaller electronic music collectives that I’m sure would want the clout that comes with Boiler Room put their foot down and they pretty much organized an anti-Boiler Room music festival as a sign of protest because Boiler Rooms parent company, KKR, has weapons investments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:17:44] Has Spotify said anything about this? Are they noticing that there are some artists who are upset, whether it’s about their CEO specifically or payment in general?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:17:54] So Spotify has not issued a public statement about its CEO becoming chairman of the AI weapons company, but it does have a lot of information on its website kind of arguing that it does give artists all these opportunities and that artists wouldn’t be making a certain amount of money if it wasn’t for Spotify. So they do have a whole section of their website that’s all about payment structure that people can go look at.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:18:20] From the consumer side, let’s say I really like one of these bands and I use Spotify and they’ve taken their music off, how should I listen to and support these artists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:18:30] A lot of people recommend Bandcamp, not every artist has their music on there, but you can buy it directly and a big percentage goes to the artists. I know Apple Music introduced a new feature that easily allows you to transfer your Spotify playlists to Apple Music. People are talking about title. There are other streaming alternatives, but I will say I don’t think any of these artists would say that any of the services are perfect and all have their drawbacks. But I think if people want to support artists, especially the independent artists and their community, the best way is to buy tickets and show up to live shows and honestly buy merch, because merch is really the way that most artists make money these days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:19:16] Well, Nastia Voynovskaya, Associate Editor of Arts and Culture, thank you so much for bringing that story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:19:22] Thank you, Ericka and Alan for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:19:26] And Alan Montecillo, Senior Editor of The Bay, thank you as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:19:30] My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, Ericka is joined by The Bay’s senior editor Alan Montecillo and KQED associate arts and culture editor Nastia Voynovskaya. We talk about the Pickett Fire currently burning in Napa, scheduling and payment changes to public transit across the Bay, and why some local artists have decided to take their music off Spotify.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1460162369&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2025/8/21/pickett-fire\">Pickett Fire\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/napa/pickett-fire-napa-cause-woodbridge/\">Did ‘escaped control burn’ cause Napa County’s Pickett Fire? Dispatch records raise questions about blaze’s origin\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12052690/bart-fares-2025-credit-card-clipper-tap-and-ride-contactless\">Starting This Week, You Can Tap Onto BART With a Credit Card — Here’s How\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13978141/deerhoof-quits-spotify-daniel-ek-700-million-military-ai-investment\">SF Band Ditches Spotify Over CEO’s $700M Military AI Investment\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2025/news20250811\">Bay Area transit’s latest Big Sync improves transfers, saving riders up to 20 minutes per trip\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:02] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to our August news roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that The Bay team and today a special guest have been following this month. I’m joined by senior editor, Alan Montecillo. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:00:21] Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And our very special guest today is Nastia Vojnovskaya, associate editor of arts and culture for KQED. Hey Nastia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] Hi Ericka!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:30] Thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] Thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:35] Before we dig into the stories that we’ve been following, Nastia, we wanted to have you on because it’s been a pretty busy August for you and the Arts Desk. Can you tell us a little bit about all the things you’ve been covering this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:00:49] It’s music festival season and full swing in the Bay Area. So earlier this month, I had the pleasure of covering Outside Lands. Um, I cover it every year. And this was a particularly good one where had I not been covering, I would have definitely wanted to be there for fun. Super standout performance by Doechii, who was not even a headliner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] Wow. I was just going to ask what were your favorite sets?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:01:25] She already had been at the top of my list of artists I’m watching, just based on her super strong album from last year, Alligator Bites Never Heal. And she just really showed everyone what showmanship and what being a performer is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:01:52] She can rap with the dexterity of Kendrick Lamar while moving like Megan Thee Stallion with no backing track. And then the whole performance was also formatted with this cheeky classroom lesson theme about hip hop. There were also so many homages to who came before and where she came from while creating this super futuristic vision.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:02:16] August was kind of the month of music festivals or concerts in Golden Gate Park, right? There was Denton Company, Outside Lands, Zach Bryan. With Outside Lands how did it compare to previous years? And I mean, how do you know as an attendee and as someone covering it, whether it was like a big success compared to years past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:02:35] I would say this year they did some very, very savvy booking. So in addition to Doechii, they had Doja Cat and also Tyler, The Creator. Tyler, he had played Outside Lands before, so when they announced it back in April, I was like, okay, I’m excited to see him again. I like him. But shortly before the festival, he released a fantastic new album. And it’s called Don’t Tap the Glass and the whole theme of that album is being present for the music in person and not being on your phone. And you kind of saw that translate in the crowd the way that people were so engaged. There were some really smart choices of well-positioned breakout acts that they booked. There’s this Brooklyn indie band whose name unfortunately we cannot say on the Radio, and it’s spelled F-C-U-K-E-R-S. And they played this smaller side stage earlier in the day. And I was so impressed by just how they packed out that stage with teens and 20-somethings who were just in this very dense crowd jumping up and down. They kind of have this indie sleaze vibe with electronics and live instruments and just like very sassy vocals. It’s very children of brat. And that band actually had a super packed high energy show, The Rickshaw Stop the night before. So I was just very impressed by how the festival had this mix of established and breaking acts that I think are about to be a lot bigger soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:05] I know LaRussell also performed at Outside Lands, and we also did a really amazing event with him this month as well. More on that on the show next month, actually. We did a real cool music showcase with LaRussall and the Good Company team. Really got to see some amazing artists locally, and we’re gonna do an interview with the winner next month. So look out for that, listeners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:34] I have a confession to make. I live next to the park. I have lived next to park for several years and I haven’t been to outside lands yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:04:41] But at least you can hear it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:04:43] I can hear it, I can definitely hear it. Some of my neighbors don’t love the fact that they can hear it, but I don’t mind. I should go and I will go. It’s expensive, but from what I hear, it’s worth it. I will get around to it, but I’m always a little embarrassed whenever this comes up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:59] Very clutch parking spot in front of his house, if you’re an outside lens attendee. Not that I’m offering it to our listeners. Well we’re gonna take a quick break and when we come back we’re going to dig into all the stories that we have been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:27] Let’s go ahead and dive into some of the other stories that we have been following this month. Alan, I wanna start with you and you’ve been following the Pickett Fire in Napa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:05:38] Yes, after a cold summer, a robust marine layer, Karl the Fog, out in full force, we are essentially in peak fire season from now until winter, basically, when it starts raining. And over the last week, we’ve had what has been the largest fire in the Bay Area so far, which is the Pickett fire. As of this taping, so Thursday morning, it has burned about 6,800 acres and is about 33% contained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yeah, and obviously whenever it comes to fire in the Bay Area, I think one of the main ways folks experience it is air quality, and I’ve been really watching that very closely. But can you tell us a little bit about where the fire is burning exactly? I know it’s pretty close to some big wineries in Napa, right, who are just about to approach harvest season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] Yeah. So the fire broke out on the 21st of August along Pickett road in Napa County, just outside the town of Calistoga near several vineyards. So this fire is firmly, you know, in wine country, you know, In terms of smoke, the air quality management district did lift that advisory on Tuesday. So hopefully it’s not too bad anymore, but there’s still many areas where there are evacuation orders or evacuation warnings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:07:00] So has it burned down any residential areas?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:03] So far, it doesn’t seem like that’s happened. Not all the damage has been assessed yet. It seems like the main damage that’s been done, apart from smoke that can be hazardous to people’s health, is to crops. As Ericka mentioned, it is harvest season for these wineries. One early estimate from the county ag commissioner says approximately 1,500 acres of crops have been affected either by fire, by heat, or by smoke. Totaling and estimated, and again this is preliminary, about $65 million in damage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] Oh, wow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] And what that means in a practical sense is, are wine grapes going to get ruined by the fire? This happened in 2020. And so the question just is, could that happen again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:07:50] Do you know how the wine industry has been adapting to that, if at all?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] Winemakers say, you know, over the last decade or so, the industry is trying to push for more research to figure out how to reduce the taste of smoke and minimize the effects of wildfire because you know it’s hard to tell immediately if the smoke has ruined your grapes. You won’t really know until you taste it. And there actually isn’t a ton of research yet on how to at least mitigate that. So maybe you do have smoke in your area because fire is a reality in California, but maybe there’s ways to minimize the taste and save the crops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:08:23] And I know it usually takes a while to figure out how a fire actually started, but do we know anything about how this fire in Napa began?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:08:33] So that is still under investigation. We don’t know for sure. But there have been some questions and details trickling out, and reporters asking whether this fire started as the result of a “escaped control burn”, basically a fire that’s intended to reduce vegetation on a property. The Press Democrat noted that those words, escape control, burn, appeared on a Cal Fire public safety dispatch around the same time the fire was reported. For what it’s worth, the winery in question said through a spokesperson, you know, we’re working with fire investigators. This is premature. So nothing has been confirmed officially yet, but there are some worries that this could have been how the fire started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] Well, Alan, thank you so much for sharing that story with us. We’re going to be following that one in the weeks ahead, I’m sure. Moving on to the story that I have been following this month, Nastia, Alan, you’re both public transit writers in the Bay Area, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:09:39] Yes, I took BART here this morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:09:42] I’m a regular N rider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:44] Nice and of course I’m a regular ferry rider and this might be of interest to all of us in this room. Some big changes have been happening to public transit in the Bay Area that is really all about making transit easier to ride. Not sure if you all have started using your debit or credit cards to ride BART but that is now a thing that you can do. And there’s also something called the Big Sync that is happening. Basically, all these transit systems in the Bay Area coordinating to make transfers a lot easier if you’re using one or more transit system. It’s about time. Right. I remember going to New York a couple of years ago and being able to ride the subway by just tapping my credit card. And as a tourist. I was amazed. I was mind blown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:10:43] Yeah, when they got rid of paper tickets and introduced clipper cards, I honestly always found it really problematic that if you lose your clipper card, you have to spend three dollars or something to get a new plastic card. And if you’re a low-income rider, you know that’s money you could be using for a meal. So I’m glad that they’re changing the way it’s done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, and it also brings BART closer to transit systems that already have this. You mentioned this already. New York has it. Chicago has it, many places overseas have it already. Sadly, for those of us who travel among multiple transit agencies, so let’s say you’re going BART to Muni like you do, it hasn’t come to Muni yet, right? You’ll still tap your credit card for BART and then use something else for Muni.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:25] Yeah, fumble to find your other plastic card to ride Muni. Yes, that is correct. This open payment system, as it’s called, of using a debit card or a credit card has not rolled out for Muni yet, but that kind of is the goal. Bay Area Transit officials say that they do want to use this eventually for all regional operators, Muni, Caltrain, AC Transit. So TBD for you, Alan. But I will say there is still something for Muni writers in the month of August, which is this big sink that I’m talking about. Have any of you heard of that? No, tell us more. So if you’re using more than one transit system, so you’re going from BART to Muni, all these agencies have tried to overhaul their schedules in order to make transfers a lot easier and a lot faster. So the focus is really for transfer hubs. In the Bay Area, so Dublin Pleasanton, BART, Daly City BART, Palo Alto Caltrain, and Concord BART Station. In all, these agencies adjusted 18 bus routes at these four hubs to improve connection times with each other. No more sprinting from Caltrain to BART for example. These agencies are saying that these changes account for a 33% increase in weekday ideal transfers. So basically you get five to 10 minutes in between one transit system to another to calmly start your morning and walk to your next transfer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:13:08] That’s gonna make a big difference for a lot of people, because I talk to so many people that want to ride public transit more, but oftentimes it just takes so much longer than driving or getting a rideshare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] Right, exactly. You know, these agencies, these transportation agencies that have been really struggling since the pandemic, they got a lot of work to do to get people back on busses and trains, right? And this is really part of it. In terms of the why, this is part of an ongoing implementation of what’s known as the Bay Area Transformation Action Plan from 2021, which is all about improving public transit, making it more user-friendly. And creating a more connected system among all these different transit agencies around the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:13:54] Love to see it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:13:55] See you on the N, or the 22…maybe I shouldn’t give out —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:58] Yeah you’re right. We’re just getting closer and closer to figuring out where Alan Montecillo lives in this episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:15] Well, that is the story that I have been following. Nastia, we’re gonna wrap this one up with you. What story have you been following this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:14:24] I’ve been following the story of cultural boycotts. So in late July, a bunch of artists announced that they’re taking their music off Spotify because the CEO, Daniel Ek actually just became the chairman of an AI weapons company called Helsing. In light of Israel’s war in Gaza, a lot of artists have been thinking in past couple of years, how… Cultural institutions and companies that serve the culture sector can be complicit in war profiteering. Gabe Moline from KQED Arts wrote a great piece about how Dear Hoof, which is an indie band that formed in San Francisco and are pretty big, announced taking their music off Spotify. And another big voice in that has been Kadia Bonet, who’s this great singer-songwriter, also from the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:19] How much of a financial hit would artists take for deciding to pull their music off something like Spotify, which obviously is huge, you know, so many people use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:15:28] Well, just based off streams, honestly, negligible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:15:32] Because they don’t get paid that much?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:32] They do not. They do not get paid much at all. I’ve actually been covering artists’ fight for better pay on streaming services for a few years now. And Spotify doesn’t release its exact figures of how much it pays, but the general estimate going around in the industry is that they get a third of a cent per stream. So basically to make the equivalent of earning $15 an hour at a full time job, an artist would have to get over 650,000 Spotify streams per month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:06] Oh my gosh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/strong> [00:16:06] So you have to be very popular to even see any amount of money. Most of the money in the music industry is in touring, but of course, Spotify does have a lot of clout. There’s a lot clout attached to being featured in a prominent playlist and having your music served up. To listeners, but despite that, there are a lot of artists that have been saying the way that Spotify is set up is rigged against the small indie artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:32] This is making me think about the story of the Bay Area DJs who protested boiler room for coming to San Francisco because of the company’s investments in the defense industry in Israel. Sort of the same kind of deal, and I feel like Bay Area artists really like putting their foot down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:16:53] Yeah, very similar. My good friend Olivia Cruz Mayeda covered that story for SF Chronicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:59] Shout out Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:17:00] Yeah, shout out Olivia! Boiler Room, for those that don’t know, it’s this huge online platform for DJs and they basically go to all these really cool music scenes from around the world and produce these really high quality videos of DJs killing it at parties that really puts you in the scene. So in previous years, being in BoilerRoom for a DJ was a stamp of approval. So it was a really big deal that all these smaller electronic music collectives that I’m sure would want the clout that comes with Boiler Room put their foot down and they pretty much organized an anti-Boiler Room music festival as a sign of protest because Boiler Rooms parent company, KKR, has weapons investments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:17:44] Has Spotify said anything about this? Are they noticing that there are some artists who are upset, whether it’s about their CEO specifically or payment in general?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:17:54] So Spotify has not issued a public statement about its CEO becoming chairman of the AI weapons company, but it does have a lot of information on its website kind of arguing that it does give artists all these opportunities and that artists wouldn’t be making a certain amount of money if it wasn’t for Spotify. So they do have a whole section of their website that’s all about payment structure that people can go look at.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:18:20] From the consumer side, let’s say I really like one of these bands and I use Spotify and they’ve taken their music off, how should I listen to and support these artists?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:18:30] A lot of people recommend Bandcamp, not every artist has their music on there, but you can buy it directly and a big percentage goes to the artists. I know Apple Music introduced a new feature that easily allows you to transfer your Spotify playlists to Apple Music. People are talking about title. There are other streaming alternatives, but I will say I don’t think any of these artists would say that any of the services are perfect and all have their drawbacks. But I think if people want to support artists, especially the independent artists and their community, the best way is to buy tickets and show up to live shows and honestly buy merch, because merch is really the way that most artists make money these days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:19:16] Well, Nastia Voynovskaya, Associate Editor of Arts and Culture, thank you so much for bringing that story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nastia Voynovskaya \u003c/strong>[00:19:22] Thank you, Ericka and Alan for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:19:26] And Alan Montecillo, Senior Editor of The Bay, thank you as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo \u003c/strong>[00:19:30] My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "‘Not Even AI Can Save Me’: Students and Teachers on ChatGPT in the Classroom",
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"headTitle": "‘Not Even AI Can Save Me’: Students and Teachers on ChatGPT in the Classroom | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Artificial intelligence inside California schools feels a lot like building the plane as it’s flying. Students who are familiar with tools like ChatGPT are using it faster than teachers and administrators can regulate it. Jesse Dukes, co-host of the Homework Machine podcast, talked with dozens of students and teachers across the country about their thoughts on AI in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8258569586&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachlabpodcast.com/\">TeachLab Presents: The Homework Machine\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] It does feel like AI is sort of everywhere now, including in classrooms. Is that pretty accurate? Is it safe to say that AI is just everywhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:01:44] It depends what you mean by AI, right? I mean, if we’re talking about generative AI, which is, you know, chat GPT in this generation of AI, it’s certainly made its way into schools. When you’re talking about what do students use, either in ways that their teachers approve of or in ways their teachers disapprove of, it’s gonna be like chat GPT, I would say like 90% of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:15] Well, I mean, you’re in the thick of it in a sense because you did a bunch of interviews with both teachers and students for this story. And I know you met a student named Emilia. Can you tell me a little bit about Emila? Who is she and where is she from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:02:32] So I talked to a student named Emilia who asked to stay anonymous. She’s from somewhere in Northern California and she was a senior last school year when I spoke with her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:02:48] My schedule is from 8.30 to 5 being at school and then from 5 to 6 I have soccer. So it’s just like I love being at school. I don’t like being at my house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:01] She says that she likes to learn too. And she actually, when I was asking her, do you see students using AI to do their schoolwork or do their homework, she said she did and expressed some disapproval of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:03:17] You’re not learning. You’re just learning how to copy and paste. Why would schools be invented then? Or like, why would we come to school? Or like it just like, it just applied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:30] And she also described herself as somebody who really likes writing as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Okay, so she sounds a little bit like a rule follower.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:37] Yeah, usually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:39] That is until she it seems hit a wall with one of her classes. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:49] There was a teacher who I believe was new to the school, an English teacher, so somebody who didn’t know her, and Emilia said that when she was turning in writing assignments, the teacher just didn’t seem to like her writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] All the essays that we have been doing. She has given me either a C. Or an F.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:04:10] And Emilia found that confusing because, you know, as I mentioned, she thought of herself as a good writer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:04:15] I actually took a college class with a professor in UC Berkeley and I never had these type of like, your writing sucks, uni, so much and so much. I always had A’s in that class and the professor even liked so many of my writings. I was just like, how am I getting A’s, in my college classes, and with you, I’m getting F’s and C’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:04:42] She’s in the class, she’s frustrated, and she keeps getting grades she doesn’t like on writing assignments and one time there’s an in-class extra credit assignment. So it’s sort of low stakes, right? You’re not gonna get a bad grade if you don’t do a good job. And she thinks, I don’t know, I wonder what will happen if I get ChatGPT to do this for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:05:04] Yeah, I mean, I could just write it myself, but I was just so tired, I was like, I’m just AI-ing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:05:15] So she gave it a try. And then apparently her teacher was able to detect that she had used ChatGPT. And so then Emilia got this message, I believe it was in Google Chat, that essentially said, I don’t think this is your work and you’re not gonna get any extra credit. And if you wanna dispute that, you can come talk to me. But Amelia didn’t dispute that because she knew that the teacher was correct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:05:42] That was like my whole jaw dropped and I was like not even AI can save me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:05:48] She had this kind of pit of the stomach moment, as many of us would when you get caught doing something embarrassing or against the rules and maybe something that in Amelia’s case goes against her own values.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] Totally, totally. I’m just thinking like how I was as a student, that’s like my worst nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:05] Yeah, no, I get a little bit of a shiver just thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:09] I think I can easily imagine how a student might use ChatGPT for like a social science class or an English class, but how can it be used for maybe like a math or science class?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:21] It’s pretty good at math. You can just transcribe the math problem into ChatGPT, but there’s also something called Photomath. Have you seen Photometh? Which is an app that integrates the phone’s camera and you can just hold Photomoth above the math problem, even if it’s hand written and it will solve it for you and output an answer. And it even works with word problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:46] I gotta say, as someone who is not good at math, I might have been tempted by that as a student.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:53] It’s very tempting. So Justin, my co-host, tells a story about how he was helping his 14-year-old daughter with her math homework, and they were both stuck. And the daughter just whipped out her phone and put it into photo math, and they used it to figure out how to solve that problem. Now, according to Justin, then they put the phone away and tried to do the rest of the problems without using photo math. And actually, this use case I just described to you, I think this is a classic gray area, if you’re stuck in your homework. Many teachers say you can use resources. Can you use photo math as a resource or ChatGPT as a research to figure out how to solve the math problem, particularly if you then put it away and solve the rest of them using your own brain? It’s a little bit unclear right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:36] I want to talk more, Jesse, about some of the conversations you had with educators. You spoke to dozens of educators about how they’re feeling about AI. And I feel like whenever I hear conversations about AI in classrooms, the main concern is always, as we’ve been talking about, this idea of cheating. But what are some of other concerns that you heard from educators about AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:08:03] Cheating is probably the biggest one. One of the major concerns around cheating is, you know, there’s this sort of ethical concern, but there’s also the concern that if the student is using AI to do their homework, they’re bypassing the learning that the teacher is trying to get them engaged in. They’re bypassed the thinking. Other concerns, will what we’re trying to do… To keep students from cheating end up having its own harm? Are we going to punish students unfairly or harshly who are suspected of AI cheating? Is that discipline going to be unfair or inequitable in some ways? There are concerns among teachers that teachers might be replaced by AI. I don’t think that is imminent, but there are a number of pilot programs of AI-powered tutors right now. And then I think there’s a concern, this sort of existential concern about, are we teaching students what they are going to need to be successful in an uncertain future that may very well have more AI in it? It’s an age old question. Are we teaching the right things in schools? And AI has exacerbated that question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:21] And you mentioned earlier this idea of disciplining students and how to discipline students for using AI, which feels tied to what policies schools have around AI and whether those even exist. I mean, are there policies around AI for schools in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:09:41] It’s really school by school, district by district. We did a survey with the RAND Corporation that found that in early 2024, so about a year ago, only about one in four teachers said their schools had an AI policy or had gotten any AI guidance. Both the teachers and the students are saying it can be a little bit confusing what counts as a responsible use of AI by a student and what counts is cheating. If we did that survey again now, we’re now in the fall of 2025, I suspect that more schools do have policies written. More schools have probably had these conversations about how do we want our students to use AI responsibly? What kind of guidance do we wanna give our students? What do we consider cheating? But it’s taken a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:10:37] AI keeps changing and keeps getting better and keeps more and more tempting and more and accessible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:10:46] Sara Falls is a veteran teacher, English teacher, who teaches at Abraham Lincoln High School in San Francisco. She’s been teaching there at least 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:10:57] I trust a lot of my methodology, I trust a lot my processes. It’s not just about writing, it’s about thinking and I’m really good at helping kind of unpack and help students to think critically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:11:11] For her, AI has been kind of horrifying, seeing it come into school, seeing it coming to the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:11:17] I’m starting to worry that the career I’ve built that’s really about deepening student critical thinking in order to create something meaningful is going to just go out the window. That people are going to say, my ability to think critically about this and write about it well does not matter. That, for me, is the biggest issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, I mean, how did she see her students maybe using AI in the classroom and how did she get her school to address it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:11:47] She really wanted her school to adopt a kind of zero tolerance policy when it came to AI. And around that time, she reached out to the school district for guidance, and she said due to personnel issues and staffing issues, the person at the district level who would usually, whose job it would be to think about these things, that person’s job had been eliminated and not replaced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:12:10] I would like to feel like SFUSD leaders recognize that this is a concern, and especially, again, as teachers of writing, what are we going to do about this? Where does it become a really useful tool versus it’s getting in the way of students’ ability to create and draft and revise meaningfully on their own?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:12:32] The district did have some guidance about AI, but it was pretty basic. So she thought we were just going to have to come up with our own guidance for the students. And so she started a process to write a responsible AI policy for her school, uh, roped in other members of the English department. They wrote a draft and they shared it with the rest of the school. And then my understanding is they went through some revision processes and then she presented it to her school’s leadership over the summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] The first to do is some deterrence, trying to explain what the concerns are. It’s detrimental to the environment. It uses copyrighted works and is creative theft. If using Grammarly, be an active editor, don’t necessarily accept all the suggestions, their style isn’t always better. Google Translate, use it to look up words, but not, don’t write in one language and then run the entire text through Google Translate. Mostly what I wanted was to feel like We’re all sort of discussing this and deciding that this is a district-wide concern and let’s figure out how we’re going to move forward with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:49] We’ll be right back with more from Jesse Duke’s co-host of the Homework Machine podcast right after this. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:05] So Sara is the sort of AI skeptic, it sounds like, but I know you did talk with some teachers who find it pretty helpful, actually. What did you hear from those teachers about positive uses of AI?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:14:22] Well, for one thing, you know, teachers are sort of even handed. So even the most skeptical teacher, you know, because they’re sort of like journalists in this way. You’re like, well, can you think of anything good about AI? They’ll usually come up with something, right? They’re like I used it to sort my students into their field trip groups. So there are these organizational tasks. I’ve had a number of teachers tell me that they use it to write their self-evaluations, which, gosh, there’s a lot to say about that. There are some teachers who describe uses of AI to really support learning in interesting ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:15:00] I was reading about OpenAI and ChatGPT. And so I started playing with it. And like everybody else, I was like, well, this is pretty incredible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:15:10] So one of those enthusiasts was Eric Timmons, who is a film and English teacher at Santa Ana High School. He teaches film. His students are majority Latino, majority low income. And he talks about using AI to help him come up with kind of like teaching ideas and curriculum ideas. And I should say, he’s a veteran teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:15:36] The part of our job that is sometimes cumbersome of like putting the curriculum together and all these plans and stuff like that, it makes it really fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:15:43] He was giving his students an article to read about gentrification in Santa Ana. And, you know, this was an article he found. It wasn’t something the school had given him. So there were no discussion questions. There were no bridge activities. So he wanted to come up with some kind of in-class discussion framework. I was like, okay, let me try and apply ChatGPT and come up with a structure for this. So he asked ChatGpT to design some discussion questions He’s somebody who’s taken some classes from different curriculum designers. And he’s a fan of something called Project Zero. And they have a particular bridge activity framework that he likes. So he asked ChatGPT to design some discussion questions in accordance with that Project Zero’s bridge activity. And it sped out some questions for him. He kept the ones he liked, he got rid of the ones he didn’t think were gonna be very effective, and that gave him his in-class discussion activity, you know, in like two minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:16:44] As a teacher there’s like sometimes a feeling of like well you know what like I’m not a curriculum designer like should I be going and doing all of this work for free you know um but at the end of the day it’s not going to happen so I have to do it right being able to work with the smartest curriculum designer that’s ever existed and have that at at my disposal is incredible\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:17:07] And I think one thing that, you know, my co-host Justin Reich, who’s a professor of education, would be very quick to point out probably is that there does seem to be a pattern that the teachers who use generative AI effectively often tend to be the veteran teachers who already probably could do the thing they’re asking chat GPT how to do. First of all, they’re able to know what to ask for in very, very specific terms. And they’re also. Able to evaluate what the AI bot gives them and keep the good and dispense with the part of that that’s less useful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:49] I’m wondering how myself and just people who are maybe seeing what’s happening in classrooms around the country and California, how we’re sort of supposed to make sense of all of this hype and this push around AI by our state leaders, by AI tech companies, and how we sort of square that with what you’ve heard from students and teachers and the People actually like living it in these classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:18:20] I think we should all be a little bit skeptical of the idea that AI is going to transform and democratize education and do so quickly. And I think that we don’t really know what skills students are going to need in the future, even if there is way more AI in the workplace. And historically, we’ve not been very good at predicting what skills our students are going to need to succeed in a world that is being increasingly redefined and shaped by different technologies. But I think the absolute most important thing that schools need to be doing right now, and I’ve definitely heard this from teachers, is they need to creating space for the kinds of conversations between teachers, between teachers and students, between school leaders about what values they want to center when they are giving their students guidance about how to use AI responsibly. You know, what counts as responsible use of AI? What counts as cheating? There are gonna be people in the schools who disagree about that. And if they can bring students into those conversations, all the better. But too many schools haven’t really convened those conversations. They haven’t given their teachers the chance to discuss AI, responsible use of AI with one another. And what I’m hearing from teachers is that when they’ve had a chance to be exposed to a little bit of information about AI and to talk these things out with their colleagues, with students, with school leaders. At least they feel a lot more comfortable and they feel like they can work towards a framework for how to proceed in this pretty complicated and confusing moment.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Artificial intelligence inside California schools feels a lot like building the plane as it’s flying. Students who are familiar with tools like ChatGPT are using it faster than teachers and administrators can regulate it. Jesse Dukes, co-host of the Homework Machine podcast, talked with dozens of students and teachers across the country about their thoughts on AI in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8258569586&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachlabpodcast.com/\">TeachLab Presents: The Homework Machine\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] It does feel like AI is sort of everywhere now, including in classrooms. Is that pretty accurate? Is it safe to say that AI is just everywhere?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:01:44] It depends what you mean by AI, right? I mean, if we’re talking about generative AI, which is, you know, chat GPT in this generation of AI, it’s certainly made its way into schools. When you’re talking about what do students use, either in ways that their teachers approve of or in ways their teachers disapprove of, it’s gonna be like chat GPT, I would say like 90% of the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:15] Well, I mean, you’re in the thick of it in a sense because you did a bunch of interviews with both teachers and students for this story. And I know you met a student named Emilia. Can you tell me a little bit about Emila? Who is she and where is she from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:02:32] So I talked to a student named Emilia who asked to stay anonymous. She’s from somewhere in Northern California and she was a senior last school year when I spoke with her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:02:48] My schedule is from 8.30 to 5 being at school and then from 5 to 6 I have soccer. So it’s just like I love being at school. I don’t like being at my house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:01] She says that she likes to learn too. And she actually, when I was asking her, do you see students using AI to do their schoolwork or do their homework, she said she did and expressed some disapproval of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:03:17] You’re not learning. You’re just learning how to copy and paste. Why would schools be invented then? Or like, why would we come to school? Or like it just like, it just applied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:30] And she also described herself as somebody who really likes writing as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Okay, so she sounds a little bit like a rule follower.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:37] Yeah, usually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:39] That is until she it seems hit a wall with one of her classes. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:03:49] There was a teacher who I believe was new to the school, an English teacher, so somebody who didn’t know her, and Emilia said that when she was turning in writing assignments, the teacher just didn’t seem to like her writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] All the essays that we have been doing. She has given me either a C. Or an F.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:04:10] And Emilia found that confusing because, you know, as I mentioned, she thought of herself as a good writer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:04:15] I actually took a college class with a professor in UC Berkeley and I never had these type of like, your writing sucks, uni, so much and so much. I always had A’s in that class and the professor even liked so many of my writings. I was just like, how am I getting A’s, in my college classes, and with you, I’m getting F’s and C’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:04:42] She’s in the class, she’s frustrated, and she keeps getting grades she doesn’t like on writing assignments and one time there’s an in-class extra credit assignment. So it’s sort of low stakes, right? You’re not gonna get a bad grade if you don’t do a good job. And she thinks, I don’t know, I wonder what will happen if I get ChatGPT to do this for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:05:04] Yeah, I mean, I could just write it myself, but I was just so tired, I was like, I’m just AI-ing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:05:15] So she gave it a try. And then apparently her teacher was able to detect that she had used ChatGPT. And so then Emilia got this message, I believe it was in Google Chat, that essentially said, I don’t think this is your work and you’re not gonna get any extra credit. And if you wanna dispute that, you can come talk to me. But Amelia didn’t dispute that because she knew that the teacher was correct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Emilia \u003c/strong>[00:05:42] That was like my whole jaw dropped and I was like not even AI can save me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:05:48] She had this kind of pit of the stomach moment, as many of us would when you get caught doing something embarrassing or against the rules and maybe something that in Amelia’s case goes against her own values.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] Totally, totally. I’m just thinking like how I was as a student, that’s like my worst nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:05] Yeah, no, I get a little bit of a shiver just thinking about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:09] I think I can easily imagine how a student might use ChatGPT for like a social science class or an English class, but how can it be used for maybe like a math or science class?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:21] It’s pretty good at math. You can just transcribe the math problem into ChatGPT, but there’s also something called Photomath. Have you seen Photometh? Which is an app that integrates the phone’s camera and you can just hold Photomoth above the math problem, even if it’s hand written and it will solve it for you and output an answer. And it even works with word problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:46] I gotta say, as someone who is not good at math, I might have been tempted by that as a student.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:06:53] It’s very tempting. So Justin, my co-host, tells a story about how he was helping his 14-year-old daughter with her math homework, and they were both stuck. And the daughter just whipped out her phone and put it into photo math, and they used it to figure out how to solve that problem. Now, according to Justin, then they put the phone away and tried to do the rest of the problems without using photo math. And actually, this use case I just described to you, I think this is a classic gray area, if you’re stuck in your homework. Many teachers say you can use resources. Can you use photo math as a resource or ChatGPT as a research to figure out how to solve the math problem, particularly if you then put it away and solve the rest of them using your own brain? It’s a little bit unclear right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:36] I want to talk more, Jesse, about some of the conversations you had with educators. You spoke to dozens of educators about how they’re feeling about AI. And I feel like whenever I hear conversations about AI in classrooms, the main concern is always, as we’ve been talking about, this idea of cheating. But what are some of other concerns that you heard from educators about AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:08:03] Cheating is probably the biggest one. One of the major concerns around cheating is, you know, there’s this sort of ethical concern, but there’s also the concern that if the student is using AI to do their homework, they’re bypassing the learning that the teacher is trying to get them engaged in. They’re bypassed the thinking. Other concerns, will what we’re trying to do… To keep students from cheating end up having its own harm? Are we going to punish students unfairly or harshly who are suspected of AI cheating? Is that discipline going to be unfair or inequitable in some ways? There are concerns among teachers that teachers might be replaced by AI. I don’t think that is imminent, but there are a number of pilot programs of AI-powered tutors right now. And then I think there’s a concern, this sort of existential concern about, are we teaching students what they are going to need to be successful in an uncertain future that may very well have more AI in it? It’s an age old question. Are we teaching the right things in schools? And AI has exacerbated that question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:21] And you mentioned earlier this idea of disciplining students and how to discipline students for using AI, which feels tied to what policies schools have around AI and whether those even exist. I mean, are there policies around AI for schools in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:09:41] It’s really school by school, district by district. We did a survey with the RAND Corporation that found that in early 2024, so about a year ago, only about one in four teachers said their schools had an AI policy or had gotten any AI guidance. Both the teachers and the students are saying it can be a little bit confusing what counts as a responsible use of AI by a student and what counts is cheating. If we did that survey again now, we’re now in the fall of 2025, I suspect that more schools do have policies written. More schools have probably had these conversations about how do we want our students to use AI responsibly? What kind of guidance do we wanna give our students? What do we consider cheating? But it’s taken a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:10:37] AI keeps changing and keeps getting better and keeps more and more tempting and more and accessible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:10:46] Sara Falls is a veteran teacher, English teacher, who teaches at Abraham Lincoln High School in San Francisco. She’s been teaching there at least 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:10:57] I trust a lot of my methodology, I trust a lot my processes. It’s not just about writing, it’s about thinking and I’m really good at helping kind of unpack and help students to think critically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:11:11] For her, AI has been kind of horrifying, seeing it come into school, seeing it coming to the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:11:17] I’m starting to worry that the career I’ve built that’s really about deepening student critical thinking in order to create something meaningful is going to just go out the window. That people are going to say, my ability to think critically about this and write about it well does not matter. That, for me, is the biggest issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, I mean, how did she see her students maybe using AI in the classroom and how did she get her school to address it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:11:47] She really wanted her school to adopt a kind of zero tolerance policy when it came to AI. And around that time, she reached out to the school district for guidance, and she said due to personnel issues and staffing issues, the person at the district level who would usually, whose job it would be to think about these things, that person’s job had been eliminated and not replaced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:12:10] I would like to feel like SFUSD leaders recognize that this is a concern, and especially, again, as teachers of writing, what are we going to do about this? Where does it become a really useful tool versus it’s getting in the way of students’ ability to create and draft and revise meaningfully on their own?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:12:32] The district did have some guidance about AI, but it was pretty basic. So she thought we were just going to have to come up with our own guidance for the students. And so she started a process to write a responsible AI policy for her school, uh, roped in other members of the English department. They wrote a draft and they shared it with the rest of the school. And then my understanding is they went through some revision processes and then she presented it to her school’s leadership over the summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sara Falls \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] The first to do is some deterrence, trying to explain what the concerns are. It’s detrimental to the environment. It uses copyrighted works and is creative theft. If using Grammarly, be an active editor, don’t necessarily accept all the suggestions, their style isn’t always better. Google Translate, use it to look up words, but not, don’t write in one language and then run the entire text through Google Translate. Mostly what I wanted was to feel like We’re all sort of discussing this and deciding that this is a district-wide concern and let’s figure out how we’re going to move forward with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:49] We’ll be right back with more from Jesse Duke’s co-host of the Homework Machine podcast right after this. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:05] So Sara is the sort of AI skeptic, it sounds like, but I know you did talk with some teachers who find it pretty helpful, actually. What did you hear from those teachers about positive uses of AI?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:14:22] Well, for one thing, you know, teachers are sort of even handed. So even the most skeptical teacher, you know, because they’re sort of like journalists in this way. You’re like, well, can you think of anything good about AI? They’ll usually come up with something, right? They’re like I used it to sort my students into their field trip groups. So there are these organizational tasks. I’ve had a number of teachers tell me that they use it to write their self-evaluations, which, gosh, there’s a lot to say about that. There are some teachers who describe uses of AI to really support learning in interesting ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:15:00] I was reading about OpenAI and ChatGPT. And so I started playing with it. And like everybody else, I was like, well, this is pretty incredible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:15:10] So one of those enthusiasts was Eric Timmons, who is a film and English teacher at Santa Ana High School. He teaches film. His students are majority Latino, majority low income. And he talks about using AI to help him come up with kind of like teaching ideas and curriculum ideas. And I should say, he’s a veteran teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:15:36] The part of our job that is sometimes cumbersome of like putting the curriculum together and all these plans and stuff like that, it makes it really fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:15:43] He was giving his students an article to read about gentrification in Santa Ana. And, you know, this was an article he found. It wasn’t something the school had given him. So there were no discussion questions. There were no bridge activities. So he wanted to come up with some kind of in-class discussion framework. I was like, okay, let me try and apply ChatGPT and come up with a structure for this. So he asked ChatGpT to design some discussion questions He’s somebody who’s taken some classes from different curriculum designers. And he’s a fan of something called Project Zero. And they have a particular bridge activity framework that he likes. So he asked ChatGPT to design some discussion questions in accordance with that Project Zero’s bridge activity. And it sped out some questions for him. He kept the ones he liked, he got rid of the ones he didn’t think were gonna be very effective, and that gave him his in-class discussion activity, you know, in like two minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Timmons \u003c/strong>[00:16:44] As a teacher there’s like sometimes a feeling of like well you know what like I’m not a curriculum designer like should I be going and doing all of this work for free you know um but at the end of the day it’s not going to happen so I have to do it right being able to work with the smartest curriculum designer that’s ever existed and have that at at my disposal is incredible\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:17:07] And I think one thing that, you know, my co-host Justin Reich, who’s a professor of education, would be very quick to point out probably is that there does seem to be a pattern that the teachers who use generative AI effectively often tend to be the veteran teachers who already probably could do the thing they’re asking chat GPT how to do. First of all, they’re able to know what to ask for in very, very specific terms. And they’re also. Able to evaluate what the AI bot gives them and keep the good and dispense with the part of that that’s less useful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:49] I’m wondering how myself and just people who are maybe seeing what’s happening in classrooms around the country and California, how we’re sort of supposed to make sense of all of this hype and this push around AI by our state leaders, by AI tech companies, and how we sort of square that with what you’ve heard from students and teachers and the People actually like living it in these classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jesse Dukes \u003c/strong>[00:18:20] I think we should all be a little bit skeptical of the idea that AI is going to transform and democratize education and do so quickly. And I think that we don’t really know what skills students are going to need in the future, even if there is way more AI in the workplace. And historically, we’ve not been very good at predicting what skills our students are going to need to succeed in a world that is being increasingly redefined and shaped by different technologies. But I think the absolute most important thing that schools need to be doing right now, and I’ve definitely heard this from teachers, is they need to creating space for the kinds of conversations between teachers, between teachers and students, between school leaders about what values they want to center when they are giving their students guidance about how to use AI responsibly. You know, what counts as responsible use of AI? What counts as cheating? There are gonna be people in the schools who disagree about that. And if they can bring students into those conversations, all the better. But too many schools haven’t really convened those conversations. They haven’t given their teachers the chance to discuss AI, responsible use of AI with one another. And what I’m hearing from teachers is that when they’ve had a chance to be exposed to a little bit of information about AI and to talk these things out with their colleagues, with students, with school leaders. At least they feel a lot more comfortable and they feel like they can work towards a framework for how to proceed in this pretty complicated and confusing moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "why-does-gun-violence-happen-this-san-quentin-program-asks-the-people-behind-the-gun",
"title": "Why Does Gun Violence Happen? This San Quentin Program Asks the People Behind the Gun",
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"headTitle": "Why Does Gun Violence Happen? This San Quentin Program Asks the People Behind the Gun | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the Arms Down program at the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly San Quentin State Prison, “firearm addiction” is treated like an alcohol addiction. Its founders, all of whom are currently incarcerated men, say that talking about why perpetrators of gun violence carry guns in the first place is their contribution to gun violence prevention from behind bars. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/21/california-san-quentin-gun-violence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The revolutionary prison program where men help each other put down their guns: ‘Don’t end up like me’\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3425351890&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] So, in covering gun violence, people will ask me and ask police, ask officials, why are shootings happening? Why are homicides either up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Abené Clayton is a reporter with the Guardian’s Guns and Lies in America project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:02:06] And in my mind, I would always think like, well, you’re not gonna have a real answer unless you ask the person who did it. When we talk about crime dynamics, there’s so much analysis and research and commentary that goes into it, but a major sort of missing piece in all of this is talking directly to someone who either did the specific thing or has done something similar, and we don’t do that very often, if at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:44] You reported on a sort of unique program that turns this on its head in a way because this sort of idea of gun violence prevention is actually happening inside of a prison. Tell us about Arms Down out of San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:08] So Arms Down is a mutual help group for firearm offenders styled after these sort of self-help rehabilitative programs that exist in prisons. Right now, they have about 120 guys who, one half of them meet on Tuesdays, another half meets on Fridays. And during those sessions, they sit in groups of like eight to 10, 12 guys pretty much share the experiences that led them to prison and to the Arms Down circles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Automated Voice \u003c/strong>[00:03:43] To accept this call, say or dial 5 now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] It was founded by an incarcerated man named Jemaine Hunter, who is in prison for a 34 years to life sentence. He’s been inside for the last two decades or so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] Hi, my name is Jermaine Hunter. I am the founder of Arms Down, a group that’s mutual help for gun offenders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:16] What is his story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:18] Jemaine is from Fresno. He was born and raised there in the 80s and 90s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] Fresno, California is like one of them cities back in the, especially back in the eighties, it was like, slow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:33] Kind of at the height of the crack, super predator epidemic that we look back on today as a reference point for so many things, whether it’s like tough on crime tactics, what we know today as like community violence, all sorts of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:50] I was pretty much ambitious with the streets, getting out, trying to be my own man, you know, as a kid, wanting to get out and have things that I wasn’t provided in the household.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:09] He told me that his first interaction with gun violence was actually a shooting that happened in his home between his grandparents when he was four or five. I think that kind of sets the stage in his mind for what guns were used for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:05:26] I was out there standing in the street selling drugs, doing whatever it was that us as hustlers and people that’s prone to the street life do. And the firearm was just an essential tool to carry on with that lifestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:49] And I think this mindset, he carried it with him, right? Until his offense at age 24, that ended in him being convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to 34 years to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:04] When Jermaine was in prison, he sort of realized that he wanted to start this program Arms Down. Why did he want to start his program? What did he feel like was missing that he really wanted to fill?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:06:22] He had been in a couple other facilities before getting to San Quentin. And all during that time, he was doing the self-help programs, you know what I’m saying, really trying to heal, you know, victims awareness, things, all of this stuff that people will recommend you become a part of if you are incarcerated. But he told me that there was no group that specifically addressed firearms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] Just talking to other people on the yard or in prison, you know, after doing seven, eight years or whatever their crimes, a lot of them still thought about having a firearm after doing all this time. So I definitely understood that it was a need for this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] In some of the places he was, firearms were seen as like a footnote, right? It was like, oh, you had all of these other things. You just happen to use a gun. But for him and so many other people in who are incarcerated, guns were like a central part of their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:07:23] All the classes was basically saying that we were having guns just to kill. I had a gun every day of my life. I just committed that crime that one day. So what happened to all those days that I was just packing a gun and not using it? So I felt like it was a need to talk about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] It was hard for some folks to understand why, without a space that was specifically tailored to those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] So how does it work exactly, Abené? Like, what does it actually look like to go through this program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] In the earlier parts of the cohort, they start by discussing their first interactions with gun violence. For example, Jemaine may talk about the shooting incident with his grandparents when he was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] We talk about growing up as kids, what it was that your beliefs were with firearms to try to combat a bunch of faulty beliefs and rumors that you may have heard as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They also talk about what they thought guns were for and how those perceptions were shaped by their past experiences and things they were exposed to, whether it’s through television, whether it was through their neighborhoods, et cetera, and they’re really able to dig in there. And they also do an exercise where they talk to somebody who stands in for their victim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] We talk about the primary, secondary, and tertiary victims, everything from the person that you hurt to the person who shoots a gun off around the school. How does it affect them kids that’s in the playground by just hearing them shot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] The arms down participant will have to sort of take accountability, talk about the situation that happened that led them to prison and to the group, and they go through that process as well. So it’s a multi-pronged approach to ultimately getting understanding about what led you to believe that a gun was your only tool in that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It almost sounds like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for folks who’ve used guns in some sort of crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly what it is. When I first started talking to Jemaine and Jesse Milo, one of the group’s co-creators, they compared it directly to like alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, right? Like anger management. They compared it to all of these different things, but specifically for people with what they’ve coined as a firearm addiction. They think about it in the same way. And when Jemaine would describe how he thought about direarms it was in line with that, right, you wake up, you’re like, where is it? How do I get it if I don’t have it? Where is it gonna come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Firearm addiction is basically you being codependent for a firearm. The chaos, the things that we’ve been through with a firearm, and you still feel like it’s a need or you’re codependant on this same tool, then you’ve got to address that there’s an issue with this firearm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] You go to prison for it, you lose relationships because of it, but still, you still need that thing. And while that’s a term I’d never heard before, once I heard it, I was like, well, that makes sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, and I’ve never heard that phrase either, firearm addiction, until you mentioned it. And I guess I wonder why do you think gun violence prevention hasn’t always considered this as part of the solution? What does naming it as an addiction do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:12:01] I think that it allows for sort of updated and expanded ways of thinking about how to address it. It was just a level of insight that I was like, wow, this is missing from the discourse. You know what I’m saying? This is missing. From the conversations we have about gun violence all the time that already are mostly focused on like police prosecution and the like. To binaries of guns everywhere or guns for no one nowhere except for cops. In terms of like outside world violence prevention, I think that people prefer for the redemption arc to be done right before they start listening to someone. They want you to already have been out, been rehabilitated, working with kids, and then they’ll take your expertise on gun violence a little more seriously. You’ll be allowed to have this sort of platform. But also I think people may just like be like, oh, well, they’re in prison. What do they have to offer? Honestly, you’re in prison. What can you do to like affect the outside? But as we’re seeing through Arms Down, there’s actually plenty you can do, especially when working in concert with folks who are on the outside who believe in what all you got going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] It does sound like there is a sense that what is happening here with Arms Down is a successful model, but of course we are just talking about one program at one prison. And are there efforts happening to expand arms down into other prisons?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:13:38] Yeah, there are. They’ve gotten interest from other guys in prisons throughout the state who are like, man, we want this program here. So there’s a lot of interest and plans to get the curriculum down and sort of copyrighted and protected before it gets sent out are underway as we speak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] So going back to the Arms Down program at San Quentin, I know that once the cohort finishes the program, there’s a graduation ceremony and you actually went to the most recent one. What was that like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:14:15] It was really something. The first cohort graduated about 60 people and the most recent cohort that I attended the graduation for at the beginning of August, there was about a hundred guys who graduated. It was really cool, honestly, to see people kind of get to interact with their families outside of the typical sort of prison visit environment. And they were pretty giddy, right? Getting their certificates and getting their hugs. I like to see people kind of in their bag, you know what I’m saying? Doing what they’re meant to do, being able to talk about their lives and just like have their moment. It was also really interesting to see that like Brooke Jenkins was there and a representative from the governor’s office. A researcher from UC Davis was there. Just a really cool confluence of people who actually could affect change and spread the word about this. It like strengthened my resolve around feeling like we really need to ask the people who committed these offenses, who pulled the trigger about what happened. People struggle with that because there’s a victim on the other side, you know what I’m saying? There is someone, and I thought about it while writing this story, there may be someone who sees the name of an arms down graduate who I interviewed and is like perhaps taken back to the worst moment of their lives. But as a journalist, it’s my responsibility to take that into account and also recognize the need to still hear from these folks. I think all of these things are so important and give us a level of understanding about gun violence that is sorely missing from today’s conversations.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the Arms Down program at the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly San Quentin State Prison, “firearm addiction” is treated like an alcohol addiction. Its founders, all of whom are currently incarcerated men, say that talking about why perpetrators of gun violence carry guns in the first place is their contribution to gun violence prevention from behind bars. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/21/california-san-quentin-gun-violence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The revolutionary prison program where men help each other put down their guns: ‘Don’t end up like me’\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3425351890&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] So, in covering gun violence, people will ask me and ask police, ask officials, why are shootings happening? Why are homicides either up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Abené Clayton is a reporter with the Guardian’s Guns and Lies in America project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:02:06] And in my mind, I would always think like, well, you’re not gonna have a real answer unless you ask the person who did it. When we talk about crime dynamics, there’s so much analysis and research and commentary that goes into it, but a major sort of missing piece in all of this is talking directly to someone who either did the specific thing or has done something similar, and we don’t do that very often, if at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:44] You reported on a sort of unique program that turns this on its head in a way because this sort of idea of gun violence prevention is actually happening inside of a prison. Tell us about Arms Down out of San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:08] So Arms Down is a mutual help group for firearm offenders styled after these sort of self-help rehabilitative programs that exist in prisons. Right now, they have about 120 guys who, one half of them meet on Tuesdays, another half meets on Fridays. And during those sessions, they sit in groups of like eight to 10, 12 guys pretty much share the experiences that led them to prison and to the Arms Down circles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Automated Voice \u003c/strong>[00:03:43] To accept this call, say or dial 5 now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] It was founded by an incarcerated man named Jemaine Hunter, who is in prison for a 34 years to life sentence. He’s been inside for the last two decades or so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] Hi, my name is Jermaine Hunter. I am the founder of Arms Down, a group that’s mutual help for gun offenders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:16] What is his story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:18] Jemaine is from Fresno. He was born and raised there in the 80s and 90s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] Fresno, California is like one of them cities back in the, especially back in the eighties, it was like, slow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:33] Kind of at the height of the crack, super predator epidemic that we look back on today as a reference point for so many things, whether it’s like tough on crime tactics, what we know today as like community violence, all sorts of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:50] I was pretty much ambitious with the streets, getting out, trying to be my own man, you know, as a kid, wanting to get out and have things that I wasn’t provided in the household.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:09] He told me that his first interaction with gun violence was actually a shooting that happened in his home between his grandparents when he was four or five. I think that kind of sets the stage in his mind for what guns were used for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:05:26] I was out there standing in the street selling drugs, doing whatever it was that us as hustlers and people that’s prone to the street life do. And the firearm was just an essential tool to carry on with that lifestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:49] And I think this mindset, he carried it with him, right? Until his offense at age 24, that ended in him being convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to 34 years to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:04] When Jermaine was in prison, he sort of realized that he wanted to start this program Arms Down. Why did he want to start his program? What did he feel like was missing that he really wanted to fill?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:06:22] He had been in a couple other facilities before getting to San Quentin. And all during that time, he was doing the self-help programs, you know what I’m saying, really trying to heal, you know, victims awareness, things, all of this stuff that people will recommend you become a part of if you are incarcerated. But he told me that there was no group that specifically addressed firearms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] Just talking to other people on the yard or in prison, you know, after doing seven, eight years or whatever their crimes, a lot of them still thought about having a firearm after doing all this time. So I definitely understood that it was a need for this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] In some of the places he was, firearms were seen as like a footnote, right? It was like, oh, you had all of these other things. You just happen to use a gun. But for him and so many other people in who are incarcerated, guns were like a central part of their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:07:23] All the classes was basically saying that we were having guns just to kill. I had a gun every day of my life. I just committed that crime that one day. So what happened to all those days that I was just packing a gun and not using it? So I felt like it was a need to talk about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] It was hard for some folks to understand why, without a space that was specifically tailored to those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] So how does it work exactly, Abené? Like, what does it actually look like to go through this program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] In the earlier parts of the cohort, they start by discussing their first interactions with gun violence. For example, Jemaine may talk about the shooting incident with his grandparents when he was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] We talk about growing up as kids, what it was that your beliefs were with firearms to try to combat a bunch of faulty beliefs and rumors that you may have heard as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They also talk about what they thought guns were for and how those perceptions were shaped by their past experiences and things they were exposed to, whether it’s through television, whether it was through their neighborhoods, et cetera, and they’re really able to dig in there. And they also do an exercise where they talk to somebody who stands in for their victim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] We talk about the primary, secondary, and tertiary victims, everything from the person that you hurt to the person who shoots a gun off around the school. How does it affect them kids that’s in the playground by just hearing them shot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] The arms down participant will have to sort of take accountability, talk about the situation that happened that led them to prison and to the group, and they go through that process as well. So it’s a multi-pronged approach to ultimately getting understanding about what led you to believe that a gun was your only tool in that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It almost sounds like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for folks who’ve used guns in some sort of crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly what it is. When I first started talking to Jemaine and Jesse Milo, one of the group’s co-creators, they compared it directly to like alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, right? Like anger management. They compared it to all of these different things, but specifically for people with what they’ve coined as a firearm addiction. They think about it in the same way. And when Jemaine would describe how he thought about direarms it was in line with that, right, you wake up, you’re like, where is it? How do I get it if I don’t have it? Where is it gonna come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Firearm addiction is basically you being codependent for a firearm. The chaos, the things that we’ve been through with a firearm, and you still feel like it’s a need or you’re codependant on this same tool, then you’ve got to address that there’s an issue with this firearm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] You go to prison for it, you lose relationships because of it, but still, you still need that thing. And while that’s a term I’d never heard before, once I heard it, I was like, well, that makes sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, and I’ve never heard that phrase either, firearm addiction, until you mentioned it. And I guess I wonder why do you think gun violence prevention hasn’t always considered this as part of the solution? What does naming it as an addiction do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:12:01] I think that it allows for sort of updated and expanded ways of thinking about how to address it. It was just a level of insight that I was like, wow, this is missing from the discourse. You know what I’m saying? This is missing. From the conversations we have about gun violence all the time that already are mostly focused on like police prosecution and the like. To binaries of guns everywhere or guns for no one nowhere except for cops. In terms of like outside world violence prevention, I think that people prefer for the redemption arc to be done right before they start listening to someone. They want you to already have been out, been rehabilitated, working with kids, and then they’ll take your expertise on gun violence a little more seriously. You’ll be allowed to have this sort of platform. But also I think people may just like be like, oh, well, they’re in prison. What do they have to offer? Honestly, you’re in prison. What can you do to like affect the outside? But as we’re seeing through Arms Down, there’s actually plenty you can do, especially when working in concert with folks who are on the outside who believe in what all you got going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] It does sound like there is a sense that what is happening here with Arms Down is a successful model, but of course we are just talking about one program at one prison. And are there efforts happening to expand arms down into other prisons?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:13:38] Yeah, there are. They’ve gotten interest from other guys in prisons throughout the state who are like, man, we want this program here. So there’s a lot of interest and plans to get the curriculum down and sort of copyrighted and protected before it gets sent out are underway as we speak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] So going back to the Arms Down program at San Quentin, I know that once the cohort finishes the program, there’s a graduation ceremony and you actually went to the most recent one. What was that like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:14:15] It was really something. The first cohort graduated about 60 people and the most recent cohort that I attended the graduation for at the beginning of August, there was about a hundred guys who graduated. It was really cool, honestly, to see people kind of get to interact with their families outside of the typical sort of prison visit environment. And they were pretty giddy, right? Getting their certificates and getting their hugs. I like to see people kind of in their bag, you know what I’m saying? Doing what they’re meant to do, being able to talk about their lives and just like have their moment. It was also really interesting to see that like Brooke Jenkins was there and a representative from the governor’s office. A researcher from UC Davis was there. Just a really cool confluence of people who actually could affect change and spread the word about this. It like strengthened my resolve around feeling like we really need to ask the people who committed these offenses, who pulled the trigger about what happened. People struggle with that because there’s a victim on the other side, you know what I’m saying? There is someone, and I thought about it while writing this story, there may be someone who sees the name of an arms down graduate who I interviewed and is like perhaps taken back to the worst moment of their lives. But as a journalist, it’s my responsibility to take that into account and also recognize the need to still hear from these folks. I think all of these things are so important and give us a level of understanding about gun violence that is sorely missing from today’s conversations.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "American Suburb: The Podcast",
"tagline": "The flip side of gentrification, told through one town",
"info": "Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?",
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"order": 19
},
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"id": "baycurious",
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"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
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"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
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"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
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"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/4s8b",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
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"link": "/radio/program/fresh-air",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"info": "Inside Europe, a one-hour weekly news magazine hosted by Helen Seeney and Keith Walker, explores the topical issues shaping the continent. No other part of the globe has experienced such dynamic political and social change in recent years.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Inside-Europe-Podcast-Tile-300x300-1.jpg",
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"source": "Deutsche Welle"
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-europe/id80106806?mt=2",
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},
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"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"live-from-here-highlights": {
"id": "live-from-here-highlights",
"title": "Live from Here Highlights",
"info": "Chris Thile steps to the mic as the host of Live from Here (formerly A Prairie Home Companion), a live public radio variety show. Download Chris’s Song of the Week plus other highlights from the broadcast. Produced by American Public Media.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-8pm, SUN 11am-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Live-From-Here-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.livefromhere.org/",
"meta": {
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},
"link": "/radio/program/live-from-here-highlights",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Live-from-Here-Highlights-p921744/",
"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/a-prairie-home-companion-highlights/rss/rss"
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},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 13
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"id": "morning-edition",
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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},
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"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"our-body-politic": {
"id": "our-body-politic",
"title": "Our Body Politic",
"info": "Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Our-Body-Politic-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kcrw"
},
"link": "/radio/program/our-body-politic",
"subscribe": {
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw",
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"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
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},
"perspectives": {
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