KQED’s health coverage spans daily news to deep-dive stories from the Bay Area and beyond. We cover policy, health trends and the issues that show up in your life and at your doctor appointments.
Hundreds of Nurses Strike at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital Over Wages, Staffing
Santa Clara County’s New Psychiatric Care Facility Will Serve Youth
In Prison, Wheelchair Basketball Offers a Chance at Reinvention
Medi-Cal Cuts Could Push Seniors and People With Disabilities Off of Coverage
Death Linked to New Opioid Included in San Francisco’s Latest Overdose Snapshot
East Bay Immigration Arrest Raises Questions About ‘ICE-Free Zones,’ Training at Hospitals
California Cancer Patients Disagree Over Whether Proposition 38 Will Help Them
One Key To California's Climate Goals? How We Cook
What Is Love?
Can You Love Someone Whose Politics Frighten You?
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Lots of signs, lots of food.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1318\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106765\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-160x105.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-1536x1012.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nurses represented by Staff Nurses Association (SNA) participate in a two-day strike, demanding breaks and competitive pay, at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital in Santa Rosa on Oct. 27, 2026. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The hospital is the only designated Level II Trauma Center serving the North Coast region, providing 24-hour care for critical, life-threatening injuries and emergencies to Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, Napa and Marin counties. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Brackner said its nurses deserve compensation and breaks that reflect their value. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Our nurses are being paid about 10% less than the nurses at Sutter and way below nurses in Kaiser. We’re looking at 24 hours or more of less PTO a year. We just tell [administrators] we’re not less than these other hospitals. Our nurses actually take care of very high-acuity patients,” Brackner said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Negotiations, which the union has characterized as difficult, began in early August. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The hospital has only proposed takeaways for nurses at this point,” Brackner said. “They actually told us in our last negotiation that they’re not making money or haven’t made money in the last six years. So the nurses had to help right this ship … to help them be profitable.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The union is also protesting management proposals that would eliminate the 401(a) employer retirement contribution, reduce paid time off and prioritize nonunion travel nurses over SNA nurses. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The union also criticized the hospital for failing to fund dedicated break-relief nurses, leaving on-duty staff unable to step away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s a patient safety issue too,” Brackner said. “You want rested nurses, and you want someone to be able to cover those breaks, taking care of patients.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a statement on its website, the hospital said it was disappointed the union was choosing to strike instead of engage, and that wage discussions were in the “very early stages.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The hospital said it is well-prepared for the strike and that there should be no impact on patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106764\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nurses represented by Staff Nurses Association (SNA) participate in a two-day strike, demanding breaks and competitive pay, at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital in Santa Rosa on Oct. 27, 2026. 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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106765\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-160x105.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-1536x1012.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nurses represented by Staff Nurses Association (SNA) participate in a two-day strike, demanding breaks and competitive pay, at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital in Santa Rosa on Oct. 27, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The hospital is the only designated Level II Trauma Center serving the North Coast region, providing 24-hour care for critical, life-threatening injuries and emergencies to Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, Napa and Marin counties. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Brackner said its nurses deserve compensation and breaks that reflect their value. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Our nurses are being paid about 10% less than the nurses at Sutter and way below nurses in Kaiser. We’re looking at 24 hours or more of less PTO a year. We just tell [administrators] we’re not less than these other hospitals. Our nurses actually take care of very high-acuity patients,” Brackner said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Negotiations, which the union has characterized as difficult, began in early August. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The hospital has only proposed takeaways for nurses at this point,” Brackner said. “They actually told us in our last negotiation that they’re not making money or haven’t made money in the last six years. So the nurses had to help right this ship … to help them be profitable.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The union is also protesting management proposals that would eliminate the 401(a) employer retirement contribution, reduce paid time off and prioritize nonunion travel nurses over SNA nurses. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“That’s a patient safety issue too,” Brackner said. “You want rested nurses, and you want someone to be able to cover those breaks, taking care of patients.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In a statement on its website, the hospital said it was disappointed the union was choosing to strike instead of engage, and that wage discussions were in the “very early stages.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The hospital will maintain daily operations and has contracted well-qualified nurses to temporarily replace represented nurses who choose to strike,” administrators wrote online. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“At Santa Rosa Memorial, we firmly believe that strikes don’t settle contracts; they delay them and keep caregivers from getting the pay and benefits enhancements they deserve. The hospital bargaining team looks forward to returning to the bargaining table after the strike ends.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The SNA’s last contract with the hospital, originally signed in September 2023, expired on Sept. 30, 2026.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Nurses began a 48-hour strike outside Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital on Tuesday, demanding break coverage and competitive pay as contract talks remain stalled.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hundreds of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/north-bay\">North Bay\u003c/a> nurses are in the middle of a two-day strike at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital, claiming the hospital has negotiated in bad faith and engaged in unfair labor practices. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Nurses walked off the job starting at 5 a.m. Tuesday after several rounds of unsuccessful contract negotiations between the hospital’s bargaining team and the union, the Staff Nurses Association. The strike is scheduled to last until 5 p.m. Wednesday. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speaking from the picket line, nurse and SNA Union President Peter Brackner said the mood was jubilant. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s on fire here,” he said Tuesday morning. “It was just packed, and nurses are excited to be supporting each other. So there’s a lot of energy here today. Lots of signs, lots of food.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1318\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106765\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-160x105.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-4-KQED-efcb0b09-1536x1012.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nurses represented by Staff Nurses Association (SNA) participate in a two-day strike, demanding breaks and competitive pay, at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital in Santa Rosa on Oct. 27, 2026. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The hospital is the only designated Level II Trauma Center serving the North Coast region, providing 24-hour care for critical, life-threatening injuries and emergencies to Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, Napa and Marin counties. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Brackner said its nurses deserve compensation and breaks that reflect their value. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Our nurses are being paid about 10% less than the nurses at Sutter and way below nurses in Kaiser. We’re looking at 24 hours or more of less PTO a year. We just tell [administrators] we’re not less than these other hospitals. Our nurses actually take care of very high-acuity patients,” Brackner said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Negotiations, which the union has characterized as difficult, began in early August. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The hospital has only proposed takeaways for nurses at this point,” Brackner said. “They actually told us in our last negotiation that they’re not making money or haven’t made money in the last six years. So the nurses had to help right this ship … to help them be profitable.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The union is also protesting management proposals that would eliminate the 401(a) employer retirement contribution, reduce paid time off and prioritize nonunion travel nurses over SNA nurses. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The union also criticized the hospital for failing to fund dedicated break-relief nurses, leaving on-duty staff unable to step away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“That’s a patient safety issue too,” Brackner said. “You want rested nurses, and you want someone to be able to cover those breaks, taking care of patients.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a statement on its website, the hospital said it was disappointed the union was choosing to strike instead of engage, and that wage discussions were in the “very early stages.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The hospital said it is well-prepared for the strike and that there should be no impact on patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106764\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261027_HospitalLabor_GC-3-KQED-f5661e90-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nurses represented by Staff Nurses Association (SNA) participate in a two-day strike, demanding breaks and competitive pay, at Providence Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital in Santa Rosa on Oct. 27, 2026. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The hospital will maintain daily operations and has contracted well-qualified nurses to temporarily replace represented nurses who choose to strike,” administrators wrote online. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“At Santa Rosa Memorial, we firmly believe that strikes don’t settle contracts; they delay them and keep caregivers from getting the pay and benefits enhancements they deserve. The hospital bargaining team looks forward to returning to the bargaining table after the strike ends.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The SNA’s last contract with the hospital, originally signed in September 2023, expired on Sept. 30, 2026.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "santa-clara-countys-new-psychiatric-care-facility-will-serve-youth",
"title": "Santa Clara County’s New Psychiatric Care Facility Will Serve Youth",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Terry Downing knows firsthand the struggle of traveling long distances to visit a child in a mental health facility. She lives in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/south-bay\">Silicon Valley\u003c/a>, which for decades didn’t have psychiatric treatment beds for youth. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Her daughter, Tessa, who in 2011 began suffering from an autoimmune disease that was misdiagnosed for months as bipolar disorder, was treated all around the broader Bay Area and the state, making hourslong drives from San José for short visits the norm for Downing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“San Francisco, Concord, all the way down as far as Bakersfield. So it was complete hell, and with traffic in the Bay Area, it took forever. And then to only be able to visit your child for an hour was just an absolute nightmare,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It took a huge financial drain on our family, and I’m just so glad that now in Santa Clara County no one else has to go through what I went through,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">More than a decade in the making, Santa Clara County’s public healthcare system is opening its first psychiatrist treatment center that will serve children and teens, which Downing and county leaders say will fill a critical gap in care. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Set to open to patients on Nov. 3, Santa Clara Valley Healthcare’s $470 million Behavioral Health Pavilion will host 77 inpatient treatment beds, with 35 of those for children and adolescents, and 42 for adults. The facility will also house other emergency psychiatric assessment spaces and offer outpatient treatment and connection to other medical and support services, officials said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106621\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Hundreds of Santa Clara County officials and employees gathered to celebrate the completion of Santa Clara Valley Healthcare’s new Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility is located on the Valley Medical Center campus in San José and is connected to the medical center’s emergency department by an in-progress pedestrian bridge to help coordinate and centralize care services. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This is a tremendous commitment from the county to its citizens. It’s a statement saying that we will meet you where you live,” said Dr. Kristoffer Strauss, the medical director of acute psychiatric services for Santa Clara Valley Healthcare. “This is a gift, and it means that families of children and adolescents who are in crisis can receive the care they need right here in San José.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Strauss said for a teenager experiencing their first contact with the mental health system after a traumatic or frightening episode, being treated close to home offers a big advantage. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They’re thrust into situations that are unfamiliar and have the potential to be quite scary. Being able to receive care at home makes it less scary, makes it so that mom, dad and siblings can be a part of their care, and can help transition them back home,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Being nearby also makes it more likely that the teenager will be willing to continue seeking psychiatric treatment after leaving the facility, he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When former county supervisors, including Joe Simitian and Cindy Chavez, championed the plans for such a facility more than a decade ago, there weren’t any psychiatric treatment beds for youth in the entire county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106619\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A youth inpatient room is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We literally did not have, public or private, a single bed in this county that was an acute care bed for a kid who was suicidal and at risk of harming themselves or taking their own life,” Simitian said in an interview outside the new pavilion on Monday. “It didn’t matter what kind of resources you had. If you had insurance, if you were going to pay out-of-pocket, if you were on Medi-Cal or simply uninsured, it didn’t matter. There were no beds.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the intervening years, some private youth treatment beds have come to the county, though such facilities require private insurance and hadn’t filled the need in the region, officials said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2025, for example, of the roughly 375 children from the county who were placed in acute psychiatric care, about 65% were sent to out-of-county facilities, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“But now we won’t be shipping kids off to locations that are a three-hour drive away; we won’t be tearing them away from their friends and their family; we won’t be putting distance between the mental health providers who know their patients best and the kids who are most needy at the most difficult time of their lives,” Simitian said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because the average stay in such a facility for inpatient care is approximately a week or less, Simitian said the 35 beds for youth could serve about 1,500 kids per year in the region.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And because it is a county facility, anyone can receive care, regardless of whether they have insurance and no matter their income level. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Disparities are sharply shaped by longstanding barriers and inequities. Addressing these inequities requires sustained investment and collaboration of mentors, healthcare providers, community organizations, schools and government,” County Supervisor Sylvia Arenas said Monday. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Arenas noted the county’s \u003ca href=\"https://publichealth.santaclaracounty.gov/health-information/health-data/speak-latino-health\">Latino Health Assessment\u003c/a> last year showed that Latino adults and high school students reported higher proportions of feeling depressed or distressed compared to other racial and ethnic groups in the county, and there was a 48% increase in suicide rates among Latinos over a 15-year span. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s so important when young people are in crisis that they are close to family and their community,” Arenas said. “So we must continue to expand access, address disparities and ensure that every resident can get the care that they need when they need it.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility plans were formally approved by the Board of Supervisors in 2017, and the building was supported with more than $80 million in state grants, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">County leaders say it’s a best-in-class facility, and designed to promote peace and calm in patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility integrates natural light, has several outdoor spaces, including a shared basketball and exercise court, and meditative areas with tiled art walls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The interior design reflects the natural world through features such as planted living walls, wood-looking ceilings and custom-carved lobby surfaces that mimic water,” the county said in a statement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106617\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A shared rooftop basketball and exercise court is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Michelle Honda, the public healthcare system’s head of marketing, said the quality of the design of the spaces is “dispelling of the stigma of behavioral health” for patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“You’re not feeling that there’s something wrong with you. You’re coming for help, and it’s in a therapeutic environment,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honda noted small features that will offer big impact, such as outdoor courtyards that include heated seating areas, so patients can spend time comfortably outside even in winter months, and Bluetooth speakers that kids can use to play their preferred music. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because California and the nation disinvested in mental health care decades ago, San José Mayor Matt Mahan said the system has long been “broken,” and he was thrilled to see the new facility coming online. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106616\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One of multiple outdoor meditative spaces with natural light and privacy glass is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Mahan said he hopes mental health treatment services can be beefed up significantly across the region and the state to help more folks in supportive and interim housing communities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We don’t want to be just dealing with the downstream impacts of a broken mental health system,” Mahan said in an interview. “We have to spread this out and have the scalability to meet the needs of two million people, some of whom are really living on the edge or already out in tent encampments.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Downing, whose now-28-year-old daughter suffers from brain damage and lives in a group home, said things could have been different for Tessa if such a facility was available to her all those years ago. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think that this building is a perfect example of what needs to be duplicated all over the nation, especially for our children. Our children desperately need mental health services as well as medical services at the same time,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The county noted such public-owned facilities are “exceedingly rare” around the U.S. A 2024 cross-sectional study looking at data ending in 2020 tallied just over 11,200 pediatric inpatient psychiatric beds across the country. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This should be happening all over the nation and in the long run it will benefit our economy,” Downing said. “We will not have as many homeless people and people who, like my daughter, are going to be having to be taken care of for the rest of her life.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Set to open to patients on Nov. 3, Santa Clara Valley Healthcare’s $470 million Behavioral Health Pavilion will host 77 inpatient treatment beds, with 35 of those for children and adolescents, and 42 for adults. The facility will also house other emergency psychiatric assessment spaces and offer outpatient treatment and connection to other medical and support services, officials said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“This is a tremendous commitment from the county to its citizens. It’s a statement saying that we will meet you where you live,” said Dr. Kristoffer Strauss, the medical director of acute psychiatric services for Santa Clara Valley Healthcare. “This is a gift, and it means that families of children and adolescents who are in crisis can receive the care they need right here in San José.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Strauss said for a teenager experiencing their first contact with the mental health system after a traumatic or frightening episode, being treated close to home offers a big advantage. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They’re thrust into situations that are unfamiliar and have the potential to be quite scary. Being able to receive care at home makes it less scary, makes it so that mom, dad and siblings can be a part of their care, and can help transition them back home,” he said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When former county supervisors, including Joe Simitian and Cindy Chavez, championed the plans for such a facility more than a decade ago, there weren’t any psychiatric treatment beds for youth in the entire county. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106619\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A youth inpatient room is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We literally did not have, public or private, a single bed in this county that was an acute care bed for a kid who was suicidal and at risk of harming themselves or taking their own life,” Simitian said in an interview outside the new pavilion on Monday. “It didn’t matter what kind of resources you had. If you had insurance, if you were going to pay out-of-pocket, if you were on Medi-Cal or simply uninsured, it didn’t matter. There were no beds.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In the intervening years, some private youth treatment beds have come to the county, though such facilities require private insurance and hadn’t filled the need in the region, officials said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In 2025, for example, of the roughly 375 children from the county who were placed in acute psychiatric care, about 65% were sent to out-of-county facilities, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In 2025, for example, of the roughly 375 children from the county who were placed in acute psychiatric care, about 65% were sent to out-of-county facilities, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“But now we won’t be shipping kids off to locations that are a three-hour drive away; we won’t be tearing them away from their friends and their family; we won’t be putting distance between the mental health providers who know their patients best and the kids who are most needy at the most difficult time of their lives,” Simitian said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Because the average stay in such a facility for inpatient care is approximately a week or less, Simitian said the 35 beds for youth could serve about 1,500 kids per year in the region.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And because it is a county facility, anyone can receive care, regardless of whether they have insurance and no matter their income level. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Disparities are sharply shaped by longstanding barriers and inequities. Addressing these inequities requires sustained investment and collaboration of mentors, healthcare providers, community organizations, schools and government,” County Supervisor Sylvia Arenas said Monday. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Arenas noted the county’s \u003ca href=\"https://publichealth.santaclaracounty.gov/health-information/health-data/speak-latino-health\">Latino Health Assessment\u003c/a> last year showed that Latino adults and high school students reported higher proportions of feeling depressed or distressed compared to other racial and ethnic groups in the county, and there was a 48% increase in suicide rates among Latinos over a 15-year span. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Arenas noted the county’s \u003ca href=\"https://publichealth.santaclaracounty.gov/health-information/health-data/speak-latino-health\">Latino Health Assessment\u003c/a> last year showed that Latino adults and high school students reported higher proportions of feeling depressed or distressed compared to other racial and ethnic groups in the county, and there was a 48% increase in suicide rates among Latinos over a 15-year span. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s so important when young people are in crisis that they are close to family and their community,” Arenas said. “So we must continue to expand access, address disparities and ensure that every resident can get the care that they need when they need it.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It’s so important when young people are in crisis that they are close to family and their community,” Arenas said. “So we must continue to expand access, address disparities and ensure that every resident can get the care that they need when they need it.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The facility plans were formally approved by the Board of Supervisors in 2017, and the building was supported with more than $80 million in state grants, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>County leaders say it’s a best-in-class facility, and designed to promote peace and calm in patients. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The facility integrates natural light, has several outdoor spaces, including a shared basketball and exercise court, and meditative areas with tiled art walls. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The interior design reflects the natural world through features such as planted living walls, wood-looking ceilings and custom-carved lobby surfaces that mimic water,” the county said in a statement. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106617\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A shared rooftop basketball and exercise court is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Michelle Honda, the public healthcare system’s head of marketing, said the quality of the design of the spaces is “dispelling of the stigma of behavioral health” for patients. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“You’re not feeling that there’s something wrong with you. You’re coming for help, and it’s in a therapeutic environment,” she said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Honda noted small features that will offer big impact, such as outdoor courtyards that include heated seating areas, so patients can spend time comfortably outside even in winter months, and Bluetooth speakers that kids can use to play their preferred music. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Because California and the nation disinvested in mental health care decades ago, San José Mayor Matt Mahan said the system has long been “broken,” and he was thrilled to see the new facility coming online. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106616\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One of multiple outdoor meditative spaces with natural light and privacy glass is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Mahan said he hopes mental health treatment services can be beefed up significantly across the region and the state to help more folks in supportive and interim housing communities. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We don’t want to be just dealing with the downstream impacts of a broken mental health system,” Mahan said in an interview. “We have to spread this out and have the scalability to meet the needs of two million people, some of whom are really living on the edge or already out in tent encampments.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Downing, whose now-28-year-old daughter suffers from brain damage and lives in a group home, said things could have been different for Tessa if such a facility was available to her all those years ago. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Downing, whose now-28-year-old daughter suffers from brain damage and lives in a group home, said things could have been different for Tessa if such a facility was available to her all those years ago. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I think that this building is a perfect example of what needs to be duplicated all over the nation, especially for our children. Our children desperately need mental health services as well as medical services at the same time,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“I think that this building is a perfect example of what needs to be duplicated all over the nation, especially for our children. Our children desperately need mental health services as well as medical services at the same time,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The county noted such public-owned facilities are “exceedingly rare” around the U.S. A 2024 cross-sectional study looking at data ending in 2020 tallied just over 11,200 pediatric inpatient psychiatric beds across the country. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The county noted such public-owned facilities are “exceedingly rare” around the U.S. A 2024 cross-sectional study looking at data ending in 2020 tallied just over 11,200 pediatric inpatient psychiatric beds across the country. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“This should be happening all over the nation and in the long run it will benefit our economy,” Downing said. “We will not have as many homeless people and people who, like my daughter, are going to be having to be taken care of for the rest of her life.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Santa Clara County’s public hospital system is for the first time opening a psychiatric care facility serving children and teens. ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Terry Downing knows firsthand the struggle of traveling long distances to visit a child in a mental health facility. She lives in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/south-bay\">Silicon Valley\u003c/a>, which for decades didn’t have psychiatric treatment beds for youth. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Her daughter, Tessa, who in 2011 began suffering from an autoimmune disease that was misdiagnosed for months as bipolar disorder, was treated all around the broader Bay Area and the state, making hourslong drives from San José for short visits the norm for Downing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“San Francisco, Concord, all the way down as far as Bakersfield. So it was complete hell, and with traffic in the Bay Area, it took forever. And then to only be able to visit your child for an hour was just an absolute nightmare,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It took a huge financial drain on our family, and I’m just so glad that now in Santa Clara County no one else has to go through what I went through,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">More than a decade in the making, Santa Clara County’s public healthcare system is opening its first psychiatrist treatment center that will serve children and teens, which Downing and county leaders say will fill a critical gap in care. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Set to open to patients on Nov. 3, Santa Clara Valley Healthcare’s $470 million Behavioral Health Pavilion will host 77 inpatient treatment beds, with 35 of those for children and adolescents, and 42 for adults. The facility will also house other emergency psychiatric assessment spaces and offer outpatient treatment and connection to other medical and support services, officials said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106621\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-21-KQED-f522bcb7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Hundreds of Santa Clara County officials and employees gathered to celebrate the completion of Santa Clara Valley Healthcare’s new Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility is located on the Valley Medical Center campus in San José and is connected to the medical center’s emergency department by an in-progress pedestrian bridge to help coordinate and centralize care services. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This is a tremendous commitment from the county to its citizens. It’s a statement saying that we will meet you where you live,” said Dr. Kristoffer Strauss, the medical director of acute psychiatric services for Santa Clara Valley Healthcare. “This is a gift, and it means that families of children and adolescents who are in crisis can receive the care they need right here in San José.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Strauss said for a teenager experiencing their first contact with the mental health system after a traumatic or frightening episode, being treated close to home offers a big advantage. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They’re thrust into situations that are unfamiliar and have the potential to be quite scary. Being able to receive care at home makes it less scary, makes it so that mom, dad and siblings can be a part of their care, and can help transition them back home,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Being nearby also makes it more likely that the teenager will be willing to continue seeking psychiatric treatment after leaving the facility, he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When former county supervisors, including Joe Simitian and Cindy Chavez, championed the plans for such a facility more than a decade ago, there weren’t any psychiatric treatment beds for youth in the entire county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106619\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-16-KQED-fbd5bb13-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A youth inpatient room is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We literally did not have, public or private, a single bed in this county that was an acute care bed for a kid who was suicidal and at risk of harming themselves or taking their own life,” Simitian said in an interview outside the new pavilion on Monday. “It didn’t matter what kind of resources you had. If you had insurance, if you were going to pay out-of-pocket, if you were on Medi-Cal or simply uninsured, it didn’t matter. There were no beds.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the intervening years, some private youth treatment beds have come to the county, though such facilities require private insurance and hadn’t filled the need in the region, officials said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2025, for example, of the roughly 375 children from the county who were placed in acute psychiatric care, about 65% were sent to out-of-county facilities, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“But now we won’t be shipping kids off to locations that are a three-hour drive away; we won’t be tearing them away from their friends and their family; we won’t be putting distance between the mental health providers who know their patients best and the kids who are most needy at the most difficult time of their lives,” Simitian said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because the average stay in such a facility for inpatient care is approximately a week or less, Simitian said the 35 beds for youth could serve about 1,500 kids per year in the region.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And because it is a county facility, anyone can receive care, regardless of whether they have insurance and no matter their income level. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Disparities are sharply shaped by longstanding barriers and inequities. Addressing these inequities requires sustained investment and collaboration of mentors, healthcare providers, community organizations, schools and government,” County Supervisor Sylvia Arenas said Monday. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Arenas noted the county’s \u003ca href=\"https://publichealth.santaclaracounty.gov/health-information/health-data/speak-latino-health\">Latino Health Assessment\u003c/a> last year showed that Latino adults and high school students reported higher proportions of feeling depressed or distressed compared to other racial and ethnic groups in the county, and there was a 48% increase in suicide rates among Latinos over a 15-year span. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s so important when young people are in crisis that they are close to family and their community,” Arenas said. “So we must continue to expand access, address disparities and ensure that every resident can get the care that they need when they need it.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility plans were formally approved by the Board of Supervisors in 2017, and the building was supported with more than $80 million in state grants, according to the county. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">County leaders say it’s a best-in-class facility, and designed to promote peace and calm in patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The facility integrates natural light, has several outdoor spaces, including a shared basketball and exercise court, and meditative areas with tiled art walls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The interior design reflects the natural world through features such as planted living walls, wood-looking ceilings and custom-carved lobby surfaces that mimic water,” the county said in a statement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106617\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-10-KQED-ae11ad93-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A shared rooftop basketball and exercise court is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Michelle Honda, the public healthcare system’s head of marketing, said the quality of the design of the spaces is “dispelling of the stigma of behavioral health” for patients. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“You’re not feeling that there’s something wrong with you. You’re coming for help, and it’s in a therapeutic environment,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Honda noted small features that will offer big impact, such as outdoor courtyards that include heated seating areas, so patients can spend time comfortably outside even in winter months, and Bluetooth speakers that kids can use to play their preferred music. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because California and the nation disinvested in mental health care decades ago, San José Mayor Matt Mahan said the system has long been “broken,” and he was thrilled to see the new facility coming online. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106616\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261026-SCCPAVILION-JG-08-KQED-e1cdeb7f-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One of multiple outdoor meditative spaces with natural light and privacy glass is seen inside the newly completed Santa Clara Valley Healthcare Behavioral Health Pavilion in San José on Oct. 26, 2026. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Mahan said he hopes mental health treatment services can be beefed up significantly across the region and the state to help more folks in supportive and interim housing communities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We don’t want to be just dealing with the downstream impacts of a broken mental health system,” Mahan said in an interview. “We have to spread this out and have the scalability to meet the needs of two million people, some of whom are really living on the edge or already out in tent encampments.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Downing, whose now-28-year-old daughter suffers from brain damage and lives in a group home, said things could have been different for Tessa if such a facility was available to her all those years ago. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I think that this building is a perfect example of what needs to be duplicated all over the nation, especially for our children. Our children desperately need mental health services as well as medical services at the same time,” Downing said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The county noted such public-owned facilities are “exceedingly rare” around the U.S. A 2024 cross-sectional study looking at data ending in 2020 tallied just over 11,200 pediatric inpatient psychiatric beds across the country. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This should be happening all over the nation and in the long run it will benefit our economy,” Downing said. “We will not have as many homeless people and people who, like my daughter, are going to be having to be taken care of for the rest of her life.” \u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "health-sports-prison-wheelchair-california",
"title": "In Prison, Wheelchair Basketball Offers a Chance at Reinvention",
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"headTitle": "In Prison, Wheelchair Basketball Offers a Chance at Reinvention | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This article was published in partnership with \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/\">CatchLight\u003c/a> as part of a three-year Mental Health Visual Desk Reporting Initiative, and with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/\">KQED\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before basketball practice begins, Larry Roach calls the men into a circle.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a Wednesday afternoon, and they are gathering inside the gym at the California Medical Facility, a prison about 55 miles from San Francisco for men, including those with physical disabilities and other serious health needs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The men come in a mix, some rolling in in the wheelchairs they use every day, others walking in. They ease, one by one, into the low chairs with slanted wheels built for basketball. Roach waits until everyone, at least 15 players and five coaches, settles. He is incarcerated here, too, and able-bodied, but in this gym, he has another role: the “inside” coach.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The team always checks in before they play. The room takes on a focused energy, the faint rustling of bodies shifting in their seats and the soft scrape of wheels gliding across the room. Each man listens attentively as he awaits his turn to speak.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105851\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin and a beard, wearing a beanie and a light-colored hoodie sweatshirt, leaning against a wall with a light shining above him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105851\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Steven “Scooby Doo” Davis is the co-captain of the character-first rehabilitative sports team, alongside Quentin Murphy. Struggling off and on with the prison environment, Scooby credits the team and support of its coach, Jeremiah Holland, with helping him stay positive. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-2 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105852\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and glasses, wearing a light blue shirt. Barbed wire is visible behind him, in addition to some outdoor tables and people in the background.\" class=\"wp-image-12105852\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">William Rowe was a well-established basketball player when he lost his leg and thought he would never play basketball again. He found wheelchair basketball in prison and credits the program with giving him the mental fortitude to rehabilitate. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105866\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin, wearing a blue shirt and dark blue pants, sitting outdoors in a wheelchair. It is dark outside, and part of the prison yard is visible.\" class=\"wp-image-12105866\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez is a long-standing member of the team. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you want to share news from back home, say how your week went, spit out a motivational line or two, or welcome new players, this is the time to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On this day in late September, Roach talks about effort: “You can’t teach it. You gotta want it.” Then the men, still in their circle, all turn their fists to the men on either side, linking the whole team. Joe Chambers, a two-time Paralympian and one of the “outside” coaches, recites their slogan: “Everything we do, we do together.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With that, they disperse — and the gym erupts. Basketballs begin to bounce. A low rumble grows as hands slap wheels to accelerate red, green, black and silver chairs. They collide. Men tip sideways, falling over, and right themselves in a single beat. Someone calls, “Outlet!” to signal he’s open for a pass after his teammate regains possession of the ball.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Impulsivity works against you in wheelchair basketball. Someone on defense can block the path you wanted to take to the net, and you can’t sidestep around him like you do in stand-up basketball. You have to stop, assess what’s in front of you and find another way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Roach has come to think about that lesson, finding another way, as bigger than basketball. “In wheelchair basketball … you got to slow your brain down and say, OK, I can’t do that no more,” he says. “So what’s the next best option?” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It teaches you to find a way out, he says, especially if you grew up feeling like you didn’t have many choices.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105857\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a basketball hoop in the middle of a prison yard empty of people, at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105857\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Early morning on the court. The team aims to improve the mental health of incarcerated people by providing a place to exercise, see other people, set goals and work together. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-4 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105862\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows three people in wheelchairs wheeling themselves up a ramp. On the wall to their right is painted the word Re creation” with some small painted silhouettes of people playing wheelchair basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105862\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The program’s core philosophy is painted on the wall of the prison gym. Physical recreation is paired with the idea of re-creation of character. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The message is painted in black on the gym wall: “RE CREATION.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The space is no accident. Jeremiah Holland, creator of the wheelchair basketball program and the facility’s recreation supervisor until about a month ago, believes recreation can be more than movement, that it can be re-creation, an opportunity to practice being a different person.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It all starts with imagination, he says. Inside prison, where people are cut off from the outside world and expected to follow strict rules and play certain roles, “imagination contracts.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“People are always larger than the role that was assigned to them,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sports can give people a chance to work on their character and build relationships in a “lonely, isolated” prison, Holland says. You learn something about yourself in how you react to frustration and losing a game — both teaching moments that push players to consider how they would handle similar situations outside of the gym. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Over time, you learn to respond differently in your relationships with others and confront the painful parts of yourself, Holland says. This is why sports programs can change people for the better and “help people figure out how to look at the most difficult things in their life,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-5 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man with a gray beard and hair, wearing a long-sleeved shirt, standing on the outdoor basketball court in the morning.\" class=\"wp-image-12105869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Jeremiah Holland has spearheaded a character-first approach to sports at California Medical Facility. Team members are selected based on their willingness to be a positive and supportive teammate, instead of solely on athletic ability. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105868\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows six people gathered, either standing or in wheelchairs, around Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man. The people have different skin tones ranging from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105868\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches say having able-bodied and disabled men play together creates a community that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the prison. It also teaches able-bodied players about disability, changing how they see the men in chairs. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is leaning into the rehabilitative potential of sports. On Sept. 30, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab2204\">Second Chance Sports Act\u003c/a>, directing the state’s prison system to come up with a plan to expand sports programming. Those who participate in organized sports will \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI-H6C9EfMs&t=7s\">reportedly\u003c/a> be able to earn credits that can lead to early release. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Holland has spent years weathering storms, like changes in prison leadership and a pandemic, to build recreation programs that embody this philosophy. Among them is this basketball team unlike most found in U.S. prisons, where able-bodied men and men with physical disabilities train for and play wheelchair basketball alongside one another.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He credits the community he built around the program as the reason it exists and has lasted. Holland brought in coaches and experts from the outside, gave incarcerated men, like Roach, increasing responsibility over the programs they joined, and fought hard to keep the prison administration invested. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Community engagement is really what allowed disability sport to happen,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Roach was a boy decades ago in South Sacramento, he played sports with his friend Landon Jackson. Gangs eventually redrew the lines in their neighborhood, and with that, their relationship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-6 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105867\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg\" alt=\"A photo of a letter reads: “Coach, I’m humbled and honored that you have decided to include me in the article; however, I’ve been M.I.A. for nearly two years with cancer – and I had a serious heart attack on 9-11-26 that required an “emergency” coronary catheterization and stent placement because my coronary artery was 99% blocked. Given the seriousness of my health issues – namely, the cancer, heart attack, colostomy bag, and baclofen pump – I’m no longer able to be an active participant on the wheelchair basketball team. I’m sad to make that decision, but I’m not doing well. I do not feel I have the right to contribute to a meaningful article when I no longer contribute to the amazing program. I shall continue to cheer for and support the program in my limited capacity, but I don’t believe (for obvious reasons) I have the privilege of being in the article.”\" class=\"wp-image-12105867\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A letter from an incarcerated player to Coach Holland explained that he couldn’t attend practice because he had a heart attack. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In their late teens, Roach remembers shooting at him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Their paths did not cross again for many years, until one day, they saw each other coming down opposite sides of a hallway at CMF. Men who knew their history watched them, concerned. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They pulled each other into a hug. “That was the first time I got to hug him in 23 years,” Jackson says. “It’s the dude I played with when we were in middle school and elementary school. Kids. Innocence…”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Roach had already begun trying to put that old life behind him. His change of heart had come during visitation one day, when his 5-year-old daughter asked when he was going to leave the gang alone. Bit by bit, he took action; he renewed his faith in God, stopped using his gang name, took a victims’ impact class and trained to counsel other men. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was this version of Roach who hugged Jackson and apologized. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jackson, by then, had also pulled himself out of the old life. He had become deeply embedded in the wheelchair basketball program, which launched publicly in \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2022/12/27/wheelchair-basketball-rolls-into-cmf/\">late 2022\u003c/a>. Able-bodied himself, he had joined because friends who used wheelchairs needed help, people to push them through the yard or to get them through a workout. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105925\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The wheelchair basketball program at California Medical Facility (CMF) in Vacaville gives incarcerated people with mobility impairments a chance to play a real team sport—to compete, work together, stay active, and be part of something outside the normal routine of prison life. But the value of the program goes beyond basketball. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“When you start getting in the wheelchair, you see what you can’t do no more,” he says. “It makes you honor people in a different way.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This kind of growth is what the coaches had in mind when they let able-bodied players join the program, says Mieko Chambers, the team’s head coach and the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. “All of a sudden, there’s this newfound respect for somebody that is looked to be weak or hurt.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At some point, the gym stopped being just a gym to Jackson. The program put him in a space of serving others, he says, which made him visible to people who could see the change he’d gone through. Holland put Jackson’s name up for resentencing, and the warden wrote the judge a letter of support that played a role in Jackson’s release.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, Jackson walked out of CMF.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How he and other leaders ran things stuck with the team. “Prison tells you don’t address it if it’s not violence,” Jackson says. “This gym told you address it so it doesn’t get violent.” Which sometimes meant calling a guy out, face-to-face, when he crossed a line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head. He has tattoos on both his arms.\" class=\"wp-image-12105872\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joe Chambers is an American wheelchair basketball star, a two-time Paralympian, and a cancer survivor who coaches the team at the California Medical Facility (CMF). (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once, Roach recalls, a player cursed at a volunteer. The men stopped practice, formed a circle and told him the behavior was unacceptable. They sent the player away for the day to cool off.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We don’t just want to single somebody out,” Roach says. “We’re gonna say what behaviors we won’t tolerate, and then go from there.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Other times it meant noticing when someone was struggling. At another practice, Steven Davis, an outgoing co-captain known as “Scooby Doo,” recalls walking in and sitting down. Normally, he would laugh, joke with others, get into his chair and get ready to play. The team noticed something was off and asked him what was on his mind. Davis had recently reconnected with his daughter, and he was afraid of losing her again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The coaches hugged him. “We got you in here … We love you,” Joe Chambers told him. “We don’t want to see you like this.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Davis still remembers it. “For them to hug me and tell me that they see the good in me and I’m a good person, it made me go harder in wheelchair basketball,” he says. “… It made me want to come in here and be around these guys who actually show that they care.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-7 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105873\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head and with his arms folded. The camera is focused on him and the left side of the image is out of focus.\" class=\"wp-image-12105873\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chambers plays for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, alongside Lavonte McDowell, who he used to coach on the CMF wheelchair basketball team. He is also a former Team USA Paralympian bronze medalist, but continues to take practice at CMF. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105871\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a light-skinned woman with dark brown hair smiling at the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105871\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers, the head coach, helped Coach Holland start the program at CMF. She is also the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. Both her husband, Joe Chambers, and Lavonte McDowell, play for the Chairmen. Mieko Chambers also won a gold medal as an assistant coach for Team USA’s women’s U25 wheelchair team in 2019. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Quentin Murphy moves through the traffic of chairs like a man playing chess, which is how Joe Chambers teaches the game: Think two and three moves ahead. Four years in the sport and over a decade in a wheelchair, Murphy is a co-captain alongside Davis and is considered one of the strongest players, the Michael Jordan of the team. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Basketball had always been part of his life. But he was run over by a truck during the crime that landed him in prison, he says, and had his leg amputated while in custody. The following years were dark. “There was those times where I had suicidal thoughts,” Murphy says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The recreation options available to a man in a wheelchair were bingo, shuffleboard, resistance bands, chair yoga. “Those kinds of sports to someone like me is some boring stuff,” he says. “I’m really competitive, and I like just being physical.” Disabled men who wanted competition didn’t have much to do, he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-8 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105864\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and wearing a light blue shirt and dark blue pants, leaning against a pole while holding a basketball on the prison yard.\" class=\"wp-image-12105864\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quentin “Q” Murphy at early morning practice on the yard. He lost his leg right before he arrived at prison. He is co-captain of the team, alongside Steven Davis. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-9 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105850\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man sitting in his living space, which has a bed, which is among many beds in the open space. There is a cabinet with a postcard or stickers with the Dodger’s logo on it and another with the Laker’s logo on it. There are tupperwares on top of the cabinet, which also serves as a desk.\" class=\"wp-image-12105850\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Murphy returns to his housing unit after an early morning practice and prepares for his day. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105858\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man speeding across the court in a blur in a wheelchair while reaching up for a basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105858\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">He practices with his team in the prison gymnasium. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man sitting on his bed, while a prosthetic leg lies next to him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105865\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Basketball had always been a part of his life, but he had to learn the sport again through a different body. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Murphy had to learn basketball again in a different version of his body. Even though the instincts were similar, the mechanics were not. You have to generate speed using your arms, and make turns while protecting your momentum. You need to coast into your shots to get the ball up to a rim that is still 10 feet high. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now Murphy is one of the players others watch. His sisters, daughters and family friends know what he’s up to now and are proud of him, he says. When he comes into the gym, he doesn’t think about anything else. “It’s just a place of peace,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wheelchair basketball also gave him a new way to mull over his future. A decades-long sentence has made a future difficult for him to imagine. But he considers all of the programs he’s done while in prison, and looks to a player who left the gym and played professionally on the outside as a testament to what’s possible for him… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That player is Lavonte McDowell, whom the coaches consider the team’s success story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In many ways, McDowell’s story unfolded the same way as Murphy’s. He was shot in the commission of his crime, became a paraplegic, went straight from the hospital room to a jail cell, and learned everything about his disability on his own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows the bleachers of a gym. In front of the bleachers is a wheelchair with a prosthetic leg in it.\" class=\"wp-image-12105859\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quentin “Q” Murphy’s prosthetic leg rests in his everyday wheelchair while he is at practice in his sports wheelchair. He had to navigate prison life for the first time while newly being an amputee. He found wheelchair basketball to be a solace. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He joined the team as it was finding its footing. It wasn’t too long before coaches were telling him men were starting to look at him as a leader, but McDowell didn’t see it right away. He just knew that he wanted to change and couldn’t do it alone. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I felt like I needed people to hold me accountable for my own actions because I couldn’t help myself or hold myself accountable,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His name was the first thing to go. Around the prison, men knew him by a street name from his gang days: “Everybody in the prison knew me by Chaos,” he says. About two months after joining the team, he stopped answering to it. “This is a false belief. This is not even my name,” he says. From then on, he told people his name was Lavonte.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fast-forward to the fall of 2024: McDowell and Joe Chambers remember the team gathered in a circle. Joe Chambers, who was already playing for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, had some news to share. The Chairmen wanted McDowell to come play for them. McDowell cried tears of joy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-10 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of wheelchair basketball players on the court in the early morning outdoors. In the foreground is a Black man laughing joyfully in a wheelchair.\" class=\"wp-image-12105855\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The men check in before they play, sharing news from back home and welcoming new players. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-11 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105860\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of men playing wheelchair basketball. The skintones of the men range from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105860\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Two men reach up high for the basketball during a game at practice. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105870\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man with long hair speeding across the court in a blur in a wheelchair.\" class=\"wp-image-12105870\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A man speeds by in a wheelchair, the room blurring around him. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-12 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105861\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Mieko Chambers, a woman with light-toned skin and dark brown hair, talking to a man with medium-toned skin sitting in a wheelchair. Another man with light-toned skin, in a wheelchair sits nearby.\" class=\"wp-image-12105861\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers counsels players during a practice at the prison gymnasium. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-13 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105854\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man in a wheelchair reaching up with the basketball in the air a few inches above his fingers. He is outdoors at dawn while another person stands nearby.\" class=\"wp-image-12105854\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Holland coaches Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez during the early hours of the morning. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He was released in early November 2024 and has since played for the team \u003ca href=\"https://www.nwba.org/page/show/9145206-la-clippers-chairmen?subseason=950002\">during the 2025-26 season\u003c/a>, traveling to games in states he had never been to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, he works with Project Rebound, an organization that helps connect formerly incarcerated people with higher education. “I just wanted to be of service,” he says. “I took from so many people. Did so much destruction in people’s lives, and in my own life and my family’s life … I was tired of being evil and stupid.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As for the coaches, they never cut him loose. They stayed in touch, met his family, and when he needed a chair of his own, they found pieces of old chairs, built one and sent it to him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s wonderful to have somebody to actually give you chances. That’s all individuals want in prison,” he says. “… I feel that this program can give people that. I’m living proof.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Partway through last month’s practice, Holland appears near the door holding a stack of identification cards. “Here’s all the IDs,” he tells the players. “I’m putting them up on that door. If you go to chow, grab your ID and meet me at the door.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A player looks toward the door. “Hey, coach, what if they don’t want to let us back in?” he asks. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They’re gonna let you back in,” Holland responds.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a harmless question about dinner, but it’s also a reminder of the controlled prison environment they’re in. Even for the volunteer coaches, getting through the gate is not always guaranteed. Some drive nearly an hour one way and have at times been turned away because searches have taken over the gym, lockdowns have wiped out programming for the day or staffing decisions have canceled practice, the coaches say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation says that it tries to minimize disruptions to programs, but staffing, training and emergencies have sometimes required temporary changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Through the uncertainty and the many hours of driving and labor, including fixing the chairs, the coaches still show up, even on days when they or the players can’t get into the gym. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I don’t want them to think we’ve given up on it,” Joe Chambers says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So far, the team has played only a handful of games against outside teams. Joe Chambers has brought friends in, for example, and a Berkeley-based organization that has taught adaptive sports for decades has also played against them, Holland says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The coaches are hopeful for a future where games with outside teams happen more consistently. In their biggest dream for the program, they imagine registering the team with the National Wheelchair Basketball Association, and bringing outside teams into the facility to play enough sanctioned games to ultimately build a record and earn a national ranking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If all of those pieces fall into place, there still is one more obstacle: The CMF team can’t travel. So opponents would have to come to them and go through security, just like any other visitor at the facility. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In mid-October, after spending more than two decades behind bars, Roach walked out of CMF, uncertain but excited about his future. His family threw a homecoming party for him, and all of the wheelchair basketball program’s coaches showed up. “They’re a part of my family now,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He’s also reconnected with Jackson and McDowell. Roach knew how much wheelchair basketball meant to him inside prison, but he’s appreciative of the support network it is giving him in the free world. “When you feel isolated and alone, and you get into a program like that where it’s love, and it’s support,” he says, “like, yo, my circle expanded.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As he adjusts to his new life, he gets a chance to test the emotional regulation and character work he picked up through the program. Getting out and being around so many people so quickly, for example, has called for breathwork. “Breathe, it’s OK,” he tells himself. And having lived for so many years with so few choices in prison, the pressure to spend money on things you don’t need once you’re out is really high, Roach says. Even with small decisions, “not being impulsive” can benefit you, he says, instead of spending money and realizing later that you needed it for something more important. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He’s approaching his future in the same way: Roach has already been offered a job at a transitional home, he says, but he doesn’t want to rush into anything. He’s considering the options to make the best choice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But one thing he knows for sure is that he wants to stay connected to the wheelchair basketball team at CMF. “Whatever role they need me in,” he says. The process for getting approved to go back in, and how long that’ll take, is unclear to him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe one day, Roach will be back at the gym, gathering the men into a circle again. But this time, he’ll be an “outside” coach. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-14 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105874\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of wheelchair basketball players all reaching up simultaneously for a basketball while in an indoor court.\" class=\"wp-image-12105874\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The players reach upward for the basketball during a scrimmage practice. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-15 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105856\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man, holding hands with wheelchair basketball players with varying skin tones, who have their hands linked while outdoors at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105856\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Holland and the players gather in a circle before and after every game to support each other and talk about challenges they are facing. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-16 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105863\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man, walking down a hall with a person in a wheelchair away from the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105863\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches Jeremiah Holland and Darwin Walters head home for the day after staying late at a practice. “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” He tries to remind people of their potential. “People are always larger than the role that was assigned to them,” Holland says. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was published in partnership with \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/\">CatchLight\u003c/a> as part of a three-year Mental Health Visual Desk Reporting Initiative, and with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/\">KQED\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was published in partnership with \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/\">CatchLight\u003c/a> as part of a three-year Mental Health Visual Desk Reporting Initiative, and with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/\">KQED\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Before basketball practice begins, Larry Roach calls the men into a circle.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It’s a Wednesday afternoon, and they are gathering inside the gym at the California Medical Facility, a prison about 55 miles from San Francisco for men, including those with physical disabilities and other serious health needs.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>It’s a Wednesday afternoon, and they are gathering inside the gym at the California Medical Facility, a prison about 55 miles from San Francisco for men, including those with physical disabilities and other serious health needs.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The team always checks in before they play. The room takes on a focused energy, the faint rustling of bodies shifting in their seats and the soft scrape of wheels gliding across the room. Each man listens attentively as he awaits his turn to speak.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin and a beard, wearing a beanie and a light-colored hoodie sweatshirt, leaning against a wall with a light shining above him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105851\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Steven “Scooby Doo” Davis is the co-captain of the character-first rehabilitative sports team, alongside Quentin Murphy. Struggling off and on with the prison environment, Scooby credits the team and support of its coach, Jeremiah Holland, with helping him stay positive.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin and a beard, wearing a beanie and a light-colored hoodie sweatshirt, leaning against a wall with a light shining above him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105851\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Steven “Scooby Doo” Davis is the co-captain of the character-first rehabilitative sports team, alongside Quentin Murphy. Struggling off and on with the prison environment, Scooby credits the team and support of its coach, Jeremiah Holland, with helping him stay positive.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and glasses, wearing a light blue shirt. Barbed wire is visible behind him, in addition to some outdoor tables and people in the background.\" class=\"wp-image-12105852\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">William Rowe was a well-established basketball player when he lost his leg and thought he would never play basketball again. He found wheelchair basketball in prison and credits the program with giving him the mental fortitude to rehabilitate.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and glasses, wearing a light blue shirt. Barbed wire is visible behind him, in addition to some outdoor tables and people in the background.\" class=\"wp-image-12105852\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">William Rowe was a well-established basketball player when he lost his leg and thought he would never play basketball again. He found wheelchair basketball in prison and credits the program with giving him the mental fortitude to rehabilitate.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin, wearing a blue shirt and dark blue pants, sitting outdoors in a wheelchair. It is dark outside, and part of the prison yard is visible.\" class=\"wp-image-12105866\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez is a long-standing member of the team.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin, wearing a blue shirt and dark blue pants, sitting outdoors in a wheelchair. It is dark outside, and part of the prison yard is visible.\" class=\"wp-image-12105866\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez is a long-standing member of the team.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>If you want to share news from back home, say how your week went, spit out a motivational line or two, or welcome new players, this is the time to do it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>On this day in late September, Roach talks about effort: “You can’t teach it. You gotta want it.” Then the men, still in their circle, all turn their fists to the men on either side, linking the whole team. Joe Chambers, a two-time Paralympian and one of the “outside” coaches, recites their slogan: “Everything we do, we do together.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>On this day in late September, Roach talks about effort: “You can’t teach it. You gotta want it.” Then the men, still in their circle, all turn their fists to the men on either side, linking the whole team. Joe Chambers, a two-time Paralympian and one of the “outside” coaches, recites their slogan: “Everything we do, we do together.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>With that, they disperse — and the gym erupts. Basketballs begin to bounce. A low rumble grows as hands slap wheels to accelerate red, green, black and silver chairs. They collide. Men tip sideways, falling over, and right themselves in a single beat. Someone calls, “Outlet!” to signal he’s open for a pass after his teammate regains possession of the ball.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>With that, they disperse — and the gym erupts. Basketballs begin to bounce. A low rumble grows as hands slap wheels to accelerate red, green, black and silver chairs. They collide. Men tip sideways, falling over, and right themselves in a single beat. Someone calls, “Outlet!” to signal he’s open for a pass after his teammate regains possession of the ball.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Impulsivity works against you in wheelchair basketball. Someone on defense can block the path you wanted to take to the net, and you can’t sidestep around him like you do in stand-up basketball. You have to stop, assess what’s in front of you and find another way. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Impulsivity works against you in wheelchair basketball. Someone on defense can block the path you wanted to take to the net, and you can’t sidestep around him like you do in stand-up basketball. You have to stop, assess what’s in front of you and find another way. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Roach has come to think about that lesson, finding another way, as bigger than basketball. “In wheelchair basketball … you got to slow your brain down and say, OK, I can’t do that no more,” he says. “So what’s the next best option?” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Roach has come to think about that lesson, finding another way, as bigger than basketball. “In wheelchair basketball … you got to slow your brain down and say, OK, I can’t do that no more,” he says. “So what’s the next best option?” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It teaches you to find a way out, he says, especially if you grew up feeling like you didn’t have many choices.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a basketball hoop in the middle of a prison yard empty of people, at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105857\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Early morning on the court. The team aims to improve the mental health of incarcerated people by providing a place to exercise, see other people, set goals and work together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a basketball hoop in the middle of a prison yard empty of people, at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105857\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Early morning on the court. The team aims to improve the mental health of incarcerated people by providing a place to exercise, see other people, set goals and work together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows three people in wheelchairs wheeling themselves up a ramp. On the wall to their right is painted the word Re creation” with some small painted silhouettes of people playing wheelchair basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105862\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The program’s core philosophy is painted on the wall of the prison gym. Physical recreation is paired with the idea of re-creation of character.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows three people in wheelchairs wheeling themselves up a ramp. On the wall to their right is painted the word Re creation” with some small painted silhouettes of people playing wheelchair basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105862\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The program’s core philosophy is painted on the wall of the prison gym. Physical recreation is paired with the idea of re-creation of character.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The message is painted in black on the gym wall: “RE CREATION.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The space is no accident. Jeremiah Holland, creator of the wheelchair basketball program and the facility’s recreation supervisor until about a month ago, believes recreation can be more than movement, that it can be re-creation, an opportunity to practice being a different person.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The space is no accident. Jeremiah Holland, creator of the wheelchair basketball program and the facility’s recreation supervisor until about a month ago, believes recreation can be more than movement, that it can be re-creation, an opportunity to practice being a different person.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It all starts with imagination, he says. Inside prison, where people are cut off from the outside world and expected to follow strict rules and play certain roles, “imagination contracts.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“People are always larger than the role that was assigned to them,” he says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Sports can give people a chance to work on their character and build relationships in a “lonely, isolated” prison, Holland says. You learn something about yourself in how you react to frustration and losing a game — both teaching moments that push players to consider how they would handle similar situations outside of the gym. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Sports can give people a chance to work on their character and build relationships in a “lonely, isolated” prison, Holland says. You learn something about yourself in how you react to frustration and losing a game — both teaching moments that push players to consider how they would handle similar situations outside of the gym. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Over time, you learn to respond differently in your relationships with others and confront the painful parts of yourself, Holland says. This is why sports programs can change people for the better and “help people figure out how to look at the most difficult things in their life,” he says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Over time, you learn to respond differently in your relationships with others and confront the painful parts of yourself, Holland says. This is why sports programs can change people for the better and “help people figure out how to look at the most difficult things in their life,” he says. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man with a gray beard and hair, wearing a long-sleeved shirt, standing on the outdoor basketball court in the morning.\" class=\"wp-image-12105869\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Jeremiah Holland has spearheaded a character-first approach to sports at California Medical Facility. Team members are selected based on their willingness to be a positive and supportive teammate, instead of solely on athletic ability.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man with a gray beard and hair, wearing a long-sleeved shirt, standing on the outdoor basketball court in the morning.\" class=\"wp-image-12105869\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Jeremiah Holland has spearheaded a character-first approach to sports at California Medical Facility. Team members are selected based on their willingness to be a positive and supportive teammate, instead of solely on athletic ability.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows six people gathered, either standing or in wheelchairs, around Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man. The people have different skin tones ranging from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105868\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches say having able-bodied and disabled men play together creates a community that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the prison. It also teaches able-bodied players about disability, changing how they see the men in chairs. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows six people gathered, either standing or in wheelchairs, around Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man. The people have different skin tones ranging from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105868\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches say having able-bodied and disabled men play together creates a community that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the prison. It also teaches able-bodied players about disability, changing how they see the men in chairs. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California is leaning into the rehabilitative potential of sports. On Sept. 30, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab2204\">Second Chance Sports Act\u003c/a>, directing the state’s prison system to come up with a plan to expand sports programming. Those who participate in organized sports will \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI-H6C9EfMs&t=7s\">reportedly\u003c/a> be able to earn credits that can lead to early release. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>California is leaning into the rehabilitative potential of sports. On Sept. 30, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab2204\">Second Chance Sports Act\u003c/a>, directing the state’s prison system to come up with a plan to expand sports programming. Those who participate in organized sports will \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI-H6C9EfMs&t=7s\">reportedly\u003c/a> be able to earn credits that can lead to early release. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Holland has spent years weathering storms, like changes in prison leadership and a pandemic, to build recreation programs that embody this philosophy. Among them is this basketball team unlike most found in U.S. prisons, where able-bodied men and men with physical disabilities train for and play wheelchair basketball alongside one another.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Holland has spent years weathering storms, like changes in prison leadership and a pandemic, to build recreation programs that embody this philosophy. Among them is this basketball team unlike most found in U.S. prisons, where able-bodied men and men with physical disabilities train for and play wheelchair basketball alongside one another.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He credits the community he built around the program as the reason it exists and has lasted. Holland brought in coaches and experts from the outside, gave incarcerated men, like Roach, increasing responsibility over the programs they joined, and fought hard to keep the prison administration invested. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>He credits the community he built around the program as the reason it exists and has lasted. Holland brought in coaches and experts from the outside, gave incarcerated men, like Roach, increasing responsibility over the programs they joined, and fought hard to keep the prison administration invested. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg\" alt=\"A photo of a letter reads: “Coach, I’m humbled and honored that you have decided to include me in the article; however, I’ve been M.I.A. for nearly two years with cancer – and I had a serious heart attack on 9-11-26 that required an “emergency” coronary catheterization and stent placement because my coronary artery was 99% blocked. Given the seriousness of my health issues – namely, the cancer, heart attack, colostomy bag, and baclofen pump – I’m no longer able to be an active participant on the wheelchair basketball team. I’m sad to make that decision, but I’m not doing well. I do not feel I have the right to contribute to a meaningful article when I no longer contribute to the amazing program. I shall continue to cheer for and support the program in my limited capacity, but I don’t believe (for obvious reasons) I have the privilege of being in the article.”\" class=\"wp-image-12105867\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A letter from an incarcerated player to Coach Holland explained that he couldn’t attend practice because he had a heart attack.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg\" alt=\"A photo of a letter reads: “Coach, I’m humbled and honored that you have decided to include me in the article; however, I’ve been M.I.A. for nearly two years with cancer – and I had a serious heart attack on 9-11-26 that required an “emergency” coronary catheterization and stent placement because my coronary artery was 99% blocked. Given the seriousness of my health issues – namely, the cancer, heart attack, colostomy bag, and baclofen pump – I’m no longer able to be an active participant on the wheelchair basketball team. I’m sad to make that decision, but I’m not doing well. I do not feel I have the right to contribute to a meaningful article when I no longer contribute to the amazing program. I shall continue to cheer for and support the program in my limited capacity, but I don’t believe (for obvious reasons) I have the privilege of being in the article.”\" class=\"wp-image-12105867\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A letter from an incarcerated player to Coach Holland explained that he couldn’t attend practice because he had a heart attack.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In their late teens, Roach remembers shooting at him.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Their paths did not cross again for many years, until one day, they saw each other coming down opposite sides of a hallway at CMF. Men who knew their history watched them, concerned. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>They pulled each other into a hug. “That was the first time I got to hug him in 23 years,” Jackson says. “It’s the dude I played with when we were in middle school and elementary school. Kids. Innocence…”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Roach had already begun trying to put that old life behind him. His change of heart had come during visitation one day, when his 5-year-old daughter asked when he was going to leave the gang alone. Bit by bit, he took action; he renewed his faith in God, stopped using his gang name, took a victims’ impact class and trained to counsel other men. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Jackson, by then, had also pulled himself out of the old life. He had become deeply embedded in the wheelchair basketball program, which launched publicly in \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2022/12/27/wheelchair-basketball-rolls-into-cmf/\">late 2022\u003c/a>. Able-bodied himself, he had joined because friends who used wheelchairs needed help, people to push them through the yard or to get them through a workout. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105925\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The wheelchair basketball program at California Medical Facility (CMF) in Vacaville gives incarcerated people with mobility impairments a chance to play a real team sport—to compete, work together, stay active, and be part of something outside the normal routine of prison life. But the value of the program goes beyond basketball. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105925\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The wheelchair basketball program at California Medical Facility (CMF) in Vacaville gives incarcerated people with mobility impairments a chance to play a real team sport—to compete, work together, stay active, and be part of something outside the normal routine of prison life. But the value of the program goes beyond basketball. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“When you start getting in the wheelchair, you see what you can’t do no more,” he says. “It makes you honor people in a different way.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This kind of growth is what the coaches had in mind when they let able-bodied players join the program, says Mieko Chambers, the team’s head coach and the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. “All of a sudden, there’s this newfound respect for somebody that is looked to be weak or hurt.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>At some point, the gym stopped being just a gym to Jackson. The program put him in a space of serving others, he says, which made him visible to people who could see the change he’d gone through. Holland put Jackson’s name up for resentencing, and the warden wrote the judge a letter of support that played a role in Jackson’s release.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In 2024, Jackson walked out of CMF.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>How he and other leaders ran things stuck with the team. “Prison tells you don’t address it if it’s not violence,” Jackson says. “This gym told you address it so it doesn’t get violent.” Which sometimes meant calling a guy out, face-to-face, when he crossed a line.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head. He has tattoos on both his arms.\" class=\"wp-image-12105872\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joe Chambers is an American wheelchair basketball star, a two-time Paralympian, and a cancer survivor who coaches the team at the California Medical Facility (CMF).\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head. He has tattoos on both his arms.\" class=\"wp-image-12105872\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joe Chambers is an American wheelchair basketball star, a two-time Paralympian, and a cancer survivor who coaches the team at the California Medical Facility (CMF).\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Once, Roach recalls, a player cursed at a volunteer. The men stopped practice, formed a circle and told him the behavior was unacceptable. They sent the player away for the day to cool off.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We don’t just want to single somebody out,” Roach says. “We’re gonna say what behaviors we won’t tolerate, and then go from there.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Other times it meant noticing when someone was struggling. At another practice, Steven Davis, an outgoing co-captain known as “Scooby Doo,” recalls walking in and sitting down. Normally, he would laugh, joke with others, get into his chair and get ready to play. The team noticed something was off and asked him what was on his mind. Davis had recently reconnected with his daughter, and he was afraid of losing her again.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Other times it meant noticing when someone was struggling. At another practice, Steven Davis, an outgoing co-captain known as “Scooby Doo,” recalls walking in and sitting down. Normally, he would laugh, joke with others, get into his chair and get ready to play. The team noticed something was off and asked him what was on his mind. Davis had recently reconnected with his daughter, and he was afraid of losing her again.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Davis still remembers it. “For them to hug me and tell me that they see the good in me and I’m a good person, it made me go harder in wheelchair basketball,” he says. “… It made me want to come in here and be around these guys who actually show that they care.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head and with his arms folded. The camera is focused on him and the left side of the image is out of focus.\" class=\"wp-image-12105873\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chambers plays for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, alongside Lavonte McDowell, who he used to coach on the CMF wheelchair basketball team. He is also a former Team USA Paralympian bronze medalist, but continues to take practice at CMF.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head and with his arms folded. The camera is focused on him and the left side of the image is out of focus.\" class=\"wp-image-12105873\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chambers plays for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, alongside Lavonte McDowell, who he used to coach on the CMF wheelchair basketball team. He is also a former Team USA Paralympian bronze medalist, but continues to take practice at CMF.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a light-skinned woman with dark brown hair smiling at the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105871\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers, the head coach, helped Coach Holland start the program at CMF. She is also the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. Both her husband, Joe Chambers, and Lavonte McDowell, play for the Chairmen. Mieko Chambers also won a gold medal as an assistant coach for Team USA’s women’s U25 wheelchair team in 2019. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a light-skinned woman with dark brown hair smiling at the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105871\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers, the head coach, helped Coach Holland start the program at CMF. She is also the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. Both her husband, Joe Chambers, and Lavonte McDowell, play for the Chairmen. Mieko Chambers also won a gold medal as an assistant coach for Team USA’s women’s U25 wheelchair team in 2019. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Quentin Murphy moves through the traffic of chairs like a man playing chess, which is how Joe Chambers teaches the game: Think two and three moves ahead. Four years in the sport and over a decade in a wheelchair, Murphy is a co-captain alongside Davis and is considered one of the strongest players, the Michael Jordan of the team. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Quentin Murphy moves through the traffic of chairs like a man playing chess, which is how Joe Chambers teaches the game: Think two and three moves ahead. Four years in the sport and over a decade in a wheelchair, Murphy is a co-captain alongside Davis and is considered one of the strongest players, the Michael Jordan of the team. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Basketball had always been part of his life. But he was run over by a truck during the crime that landed him in prison, he says, and had his leg amputated while in custody. The following years were dark. “There was those times where I had suicidal thoughts,” Murphy says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The recreation options available to a man in a wheelchair were bingo, shuffleboard, resistance bands, chair yoga. “Those kinds of sports to someone like me is some boring stuff,” he says. “I’m really competitive, and I like just being physical.” Disabled men who wanted competition didn’t have much to do, he says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man sitting on his bed, while a prosthetic leg lies next to him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105865\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Basketball had always been a part of his life, but he had to learn the sport again through a different body.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Murphy had to learn basketball again in a different version of his body. Even though the instincts were similar, the mechanics were not. You have to generate speed using your arms, and make turns while protecting your momentum. You need to coast into your shots to get the ball up to a rim that is still 10 feet high. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Now Murphy is one of the players others watch. His sisters, daughters and family friends know what he’s up to now and are proud of him, he says. When he comes into the gym, he doesn’t think about anything else. “It’s just a place of peace,” he says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Wheelchair basketball also gave him a new way to mull over his future. A decades-long sentence has made a future difficult for him to imagine. But he considers all of the programs he’s done while in prison, and looks to a player who left the gym and played professionally on the outside as a testament to what’s possible for him… \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That player is Lavonte McDowell, whom the coaches consider the team’s success story. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows the bleachers of a gym. In front of the bleachers is a wheelchair with a prosthetic leg in it.\" class=\"wp-image-12105859\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quentin “Q” Murphy’s prosthetic leg rests in his everyday wheelchair while he is at practice in his sports wheelchair. He had to navigate prison life for the first time while newly being an amputee. He found wheelchair basketball to be a solace. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He joined the team as it was finding its footing. It wasn’t too long before coaches were telling him men were starting to look at him as a leader, but McDowell didn’t see it right away. He just knew that he wanted to change and couldn’t do it alone. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I felt like I needed people to hold me accountable for my own actions because I couldn’t help myself or hold myself accountable,” he says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>His name was the first thing to go. Around the prison, men knew him by a street name from his gang days: “Everybody in the prison knew me by Chaos,” he says. About two months after joining the team, he stopped answering to it. “This is a false belief. This is not even my name,” he says. From then on, he told people his name was Lavonte.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Fast-forward to the fall of 2024: McDowell and Joe Chambers remember the team gathered in a circle. Joe Chambers, who was already playing for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, had some news to share. The Chairmen wanted McDowell to come play for them. McDowell cried tears of joy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He was released in early November 2024 and has since played for the team \u003ca href=\"https://www.nwba.org/page/show/9145206-la-clippers-chairmen?subseason=950002\">during the 2025-26 season\u003c/a>, traveling to games in states he had never been to.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Partway through last month’s practice, Holland appears near the door holding a stack of identification cards. “Here’s all the IDs,” he tells the players. “I’m putting them up on that door. If you go to chow, grab your ID and meet me at the door.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It’s a harmless question about dinner, but it’s also a reminder of the controlled prison environment they’re in. Even for the volunteer coaches, getting through the gate is not always guaranteed. Some drive nearly an hour one way and have at times been turned away because searches have taken over the gym, lockdowns have wiped out programming for the day or staffing decisions have canceled practice, the coaches say. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So far, the team has played only a handful of games against outside teams. Joe Chambers has brought friends in, for example, and a Berkeley-based organization that has taught adaptive sports for decades has also played against them, Holland says. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The coaches are hopeful for a future where games with outside teams happen more consistently. In their biggest dream for the program, they imagine registering the team with the National Wheelchair Basketball Association, and bringing outside teams into the facility to play enough sanctioned games to ultimately build a record and earn a national ranking. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>If all of those pieces fall into place, there still is one more obstacle: The CMF team can’t travel. So opponents would have to come to them and go through security, just like any other visitor at the facility. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In mid-October, after spending more than two decades behind bars, Roach walked out of CMF, uncertain but excited about his future. His family threw a homecoming party for him, and all of the wheelchair basketball program’s coaches showed up. “They’re a part of my family now,” he says.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He’s also reconnected with Jackson and McDowell. Roach knew how much wheelchair basketball meant to him inside prison, but he’s appreciative of the support network it is giving him in the free world. “When you feel isolated and alone, and you get into a program like that where it’s love, and it’s support,” he says, “like, yo, my circle expanded.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>As he adjusts to his new life, he gets a chance to test the emotional regulation and character work he picked up through the program. Getting out and being around so many people so quickly, for example, has called for breathwork. “Breathe, it’s OK,” he tells himself. And having lived for so many years with so few choices in prison, the pressure to spend money on things you don’t need once you’re out is really high, Roach says. Even with small decisions, “not being impulsive” can benefit you, he says, instead of spending money and realizing later that you needed it for something more important. \u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "At California Medical Facility, playing a sport helps men practice new ways of thinking and form bonds that remain outside of prison walls.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This article was published in partnership with \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/\">CatchLight\u003c/a> as part of a three-year Mental Health Visual Desk Reporting Initiative, and with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/\">KQED\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before basketball practice begins, Larry Roach calls the men into a circle.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a Wednesday afternoon, and they are gathering inside the gym at the California Medical Facility, a prison about 55 miles from San Francisco for men, including those with physical disabilities and other serious health needs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The men come in a mix, some rolling in in the wheelchairs they use every day, others walking in. They ease, one by one, into the low chairs with slanted wheels built for basketball. Roach waits until everyone, at least 15 players and five coaches, settles. He is incarcerated here, too, and able-bodied, but in this gym, he has another role: the “inside” coach.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The team always checks in before they play. The room takes on a focused energy, the faint rustling of bodies shifting in their seats and the soft scrape of wheels gliding across the room. Each man listens attentively as he awaits his turn to speak.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105851\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin and a beard, wearing a beanie and a light-colored hoodie sweatshirt, leaning against a wall with a light shining above him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105851\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-02-9b90ce35-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Steven “Scooby Doo” Davis is the co-captain of the character-first rehabilitative sports team, alongside Quentin Murphy. Struggling off and on with the prison environment, Scooby credits the team and support of its coach, Jeremiah Holland, with helping him stay positive. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-2 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105852\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and glasses, wearing a light blue shirt. Barbed wire is visible behind him, in addition to some outdoor tables and people in the background.\" class=\"wp-image-12105852\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-03-ed3a3e7d-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">William Rowe was a well-established basketball player when he lost his leg and thought he would never play basketball again. He found wheelchair basketball in prison and credits the program with giving him the mental fortitude to rehabilitate. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105866\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with medium-toned skin, wearing a blue shirt and dark blue pants, sitting outdoors in a wheelchair. It is dark outside, and part of the prison yard is visible.\" class=\"wp-image-12105866\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-17-68571607-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez is a long-standing member of the team. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you want to share news from back home, say how your week went, spit out a motivational line or two, or welcome new players, this is the time to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On this day in late September, Roach talks about effort: “You can’t teach it. You gotta want it.” Then the men, still in their circle, all turn their fists to the men on either side, linking the whole team. Joe Chambers, a two-time Paralympian and one of the “outside” coaches, recites their slogan: “Everything we do, we do together.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With that, they disperse — and the gym erupts. Basketballs begin to bounce. A low rumble grows as hands slap wheels to accelerate red, green, black and silver chairs. They collide. Men tip sideways, falling over, and right themselves in a single beat. Someone calls, “Outlet!” to signal he’s open for a pass after his teammate regains possession of the ball.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Impulsivity works against you in wheelchair basketball. Someone on defense can block the path you wanted to take to the net, and you can’t sidestep around him like you do in stand-up basketball. You have to stop, assess what’s in front of you and find another way. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Roach has come to think about that lesson, finding another way, as bigger than basketball. “In wheelchair basketball … you got to slow your brain down and say, OK, I can’t do that no more,” he says. “So what’s the next best option?” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It teaches you to find a way out, he says, especially if you grew up feeling like you didn’t have many choices.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105857\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a basketball hoop in the middle of a prison yard empty of people, at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105857\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-08-02d55a10-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Early morning on the court. The team aims to improve the mental health of incarcerated people by providing a place to exercise, see other people, set goals and work together. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-4 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105862\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows three people in wheelchairs wheeling themselves up a ramp. On the wall to their right is painted the word Re creation” with some small painted silhouettes of people playing wheelchair basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105862\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-13-0796265f-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The program’s core philosophy is painted on the wall of the prison gym. Physical recreation is paired with the idea of re-creation of character. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The message is painted in black on the gym wall: “RE CREATION.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The space is no accident. Jeremiah Holland, creator of the wheelchair basketball program and the facility’s recreation supervisor until about a month ago, believes recreation can be more than movement, that it can be re-creation, an opportunity to practice being a different person.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It all starts with imagination, he says. Inside prison, where people are cut off from the outside world and expected to follow strict rules and play certain roles, “imagination contracts.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“People are always larger than the role that was assigned to them,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sports can give people a chance to work on their character and build relationships in a “lonely, isolated” prison, Holland says. You learn something about yourself in how you react to frustration and losing a game — both teaching moments that push players to consider how they would handle similar situations outside of the gym. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Over time, you learn to respond differently in your relationships with others and confront the painful parts of yourself, Holland says. This is why sports programs can change people for the better and “help people figure out how to look at the most difficult things in their life,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-5 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man with a gray beard and hair, wearing a long-sleeved shirt, standing on the outdoor basketball court in the morning.\" class=\"wp-image-12105869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-20-0cec44cb-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Jeremiah Holland has spearheaded a character-first approach to sports at California Medical Facility. Team members are selected based on their willingness to be a positive and supportive teammate, instead of solely on athletic ability. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105868\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows six people gathered, either standing or in wheelchairs, around Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man. The people have different skin tones ranging from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105868\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-19-291b5aa9-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches say having able-bodied and disabled men play together creates a community that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the prison. It also teaches able-bodied players about disability, changing how they see the men in chairs. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is leaning into the rehabilitative potential of sports. On Sept. 30, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed the \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab2204\">Second Chance Sports Act\u003c/a>, directing the state’s prison system to come up with a plan to expand sports programming. Those who participate in organized sports will \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI-H6C9EfMs&t=7s\">reportedly\u003c/a> be able to earn credits that can lead to early release. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Holland has spent years weathering storms, like changes in prison leadership and a pandemic, to build recreation programs that embody this philosophy. Among them is this basketball team unlike most found in U.S. prisons, where able-bodied men and men with physical disabilities train for and play wheelchair basketball alongside one another.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He credits the community he built around the program as the reason it exists and has lasted. Holland brought in coaches and experts from the outside, gave incarcerated men, like Roach, increasing responsibility over the programs they joined, and fought hard to keep the prison administration invested. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Community engagement is really what allowed disability sport to happen,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When Roach was a boy decades ago in South Sacramento, he played sports with his friend Landon Jackson. Gangs eventually redrew the lines in their neighborhood, and with that, their relationship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-6 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105867\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg\" alt=\"A photo of a letter reads: “Coach, I’m humbled and honored that you have decided to include me in the article; however, I’ve been M.I.A. for nearly two years with cancer – and I had a serious heart attack on 9-11-26 that required an “emergency” coronary catheterization and stent placement because my coronary artery was 99% blocked. Given the seriousness of my health issues – namely, the cancer, heart attack, colostomy bag, and baclofen pump – I’m no longer able to be an active participant on the wheelchair basketball team. I’m sad to make that decision, but I’m not doing well. I do not feel I have the right to contribute to a meaningful article when I no longer contribute to the amazing program. I shall continue to cheer for and support the program in my limited capacity, but I don’t believe (for obvious reasons) I have the privilege of being in the article.”\" class=\"wp-image-12105867\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-18-10ddddf1-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A letter from an incarcerated player to Coach Holland explained that he couldn’t attend practice because he had a heart attack. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In their late teens, Roach remembers shooting at him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Their paths did not cross again for many years, until one day, they saw each other coming down opposite sides of a hallway at CMF. Men who knew their history watched them, concerned. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They pulled each other into a hug. “That was the first time I got to hug him in 23 years,” Jackson says. “It’s the dude I played with when we were in middle school and elementary school. Kids. Innocence…”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Roach had already begun trying to put that old life behind him. His change of heart had come during visitation one day, when his 5-year-old daughter asked when he was going to leave the gang alone. Bit by bit, he took action; he renewed his faith in God, stopped using his gang name, took a victims’ impact class and trained to counsel other men. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was this version of Roach who hugged Jackson and apologized. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jackson, by then, had also pulled himself out of the old life. He had become deeply embedded in the wheelchair basketball program, which launched publicly in \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2022/12/27/wheelchair-basketball-rolls-into-cmf/\">late 2022\u003c/a>. Able-bodied himself, he had joined because friends who used wheelchairs needed help, people to push them through the yard or to get them through a workout. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105925\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-26-8edd8451-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The wheelchair basketball program at California Medical Facility (CMF) in Vacaville gives incarcerated people with mobility impairments a chance to play a real team sport—to compete, work together, stay active, and be part of something outside the normal routine of prison life. But the value of the program goes beyond basketball. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“When you start getting in the wheelchair, you see what you can’t do no more,” he says. “It makes you honor people in a different way.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This kind of growth is what the coaches had in mind when they let able-bodied players join the program, says Mieko Chambers, the team’s head coach and the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. “All of a sudden, there’s this newfound respect for somebody that is looked to be weak or hurt.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">At some point, the gym stopped being just a gym to Jackson. The program put him in a space of serving others, he says, which made him visible to people who could see the change he’d gone through. Holland put Jackson’s name up for resentencing, and the warden wrote the judge a letter of support that played a role in Jackson’s release.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, Jackson walked out of CMF.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How he and other leaders ran things stuck with the team. “Prison tells you don’t address it if it’s not violence,” Jackson says. “This gym told you address it so it doesn’t get violent.” Which sometimes meant calling a guy out, face-to-face, when he crossed a line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head. He has tattoos on both his arms.\" class=\"wp-image-12105872\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-23-6f590b54-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joe Chambers is an American wheelchair basketball star, a two-time Paralympian, and a cancer survivor who coaches the team at the California Medical Facility (CMF). (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once, Roach recalls, a player cursed at a volunteer. The men stopped practice, formed a circle and told him the behavior was unacceptable. They sent the player away for the day to cool off.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We don’t just want to single somebody out,” Roach says. “We’re gonna say what behaviors we won’t tolerate, and then go from there.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Other times it meant noticing when someone was struggling. At another practice, Steven Davis, an outgoing co-captain known as “Scooby Doo,” recalls walking in and sitting down. Normally, he would laugh, joke with others, get into his chair and get ready to play. The team noticed something was off and asked him what was on his mind. Davis had recently reconnected with his daughter, and he was afraid of losing her again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The coaches hugged him. “We got you in here … We love you,” Joe Chambers told him. “We don’t want to see you like this.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Davis still remembers it. “For them to hug me and tell me that they see the good in me and I’m a good person, it made me go harder in wheelchair basketball,” he says. “… It made me want to come in here and be around these guys who actually show that they care.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-7 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105873\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a White man wearing a black T-shirt in a wheelchair, wearing a sweatband around his head and with his arms folded. The camera is focused on him and the left side of the image is out of focus.\" class=\"wp-image-12105873\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-24-6cbb86ca-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chambers plays for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, alongside Lavonte McDowell, who he used to coach on the CMF wheelchair basketball team. He is also a former Team USA Paralympian bronze medalist, but continues to take practice at CMF. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105871\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a light-skinned woman with dark brown hair smiling at the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105871\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-22-12570d73-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers, the head coach, helped Coach Holland start the program at CMF. She is also the head coach of the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, a National Wheelchair Basketball Association team. Both her husband, Joe Chambers, and Lavonte McDowell, play for the Chairmen. Mieko Chambers also won a gold medal as an assistant coach for Team USA’s women’s U25 wheelchair team in 2019. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Quentin Murphy moves through the traffic of chairs like a man playing chess, which is how Joe Chambers teaches the game: Think two and three moves ahead. Four years in the sport and over a decade in a wheelchair, Murphy is a co-captain alongside Davis and is considered one of the strongest players, the Michael Jordan of the team. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Basketball had always been part of his life. But he was run over by a truck during the crime that landed him in prison, he says, and had his leg amputated while in custody. The following years were dark. “There was those times where I had suicidal thoughts,” Murphy says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The recreation options available to a man in a wheelchair were bingo, shuffleboard, resistance bands, chair yoga. “Those kinds of sports to someone like me is some boring stuff,” he says. “I’m really competitive, and I like just being physical.” Disabled men who wanted competition didn’t have much to do, he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-8 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" data-id=\"12105864\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man with dark-toned skin and wearing a light blue shirt and dark blue pants, leaning against a pole while holding a basketball on the prison yard.\" class=\"wp-image-12105864\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-15-4047e8fa-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quentin “Q” Murphy at early morning practice on the yard. He lost his leg right before he arrived at prison. He is co-captain of the team, alongside Steven Davis. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-9 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105850\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man sitting in his living space, which has a bed, which is among many beds in the open space. There is a cabinet with a postcard or stickers with the Dodger’s logo on it and another with the Laker’s logo on it. There are tupperwares on top of the cabinet, which also serves as a desk.\" class=\"wp-image-12105850\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-01-67d9a049-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Murphy returns to his housing unit after an early morning practice and prepares for his day. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105858\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man speeding across the court in a blur in a wheelchair while reaching up for a basketball.\" class=\"wp-image-12105858\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-09-58255c65-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">He practices with his team in the prison gymnasium. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man sitting on his bed, while a prosthetic leg lies next to him.\" class=\"wp-image-12105865\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-16-abb63a7e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Basketball had always been a part of his life, but he had to learn the sport again through a different body. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Murphy had to learn basketball again in a different version of his body. Even though the instincts were similar, the mechanics were not. You have to generate speed using your arms, and make turns while protecting your momentum. You need to coast into your shots to get the ball up to a rim that is still 10 feet high. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now Murphy is one of the players others watch. His sisters, daughters and family friends know what he’s up to now and are proud of him, he says. When he comes into the gym, he doesn’t think about anything else. “It’s just a place of peace,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wheelchair basketball also gave him a new way to mull over his future. A decades-long sentence has made a future difficult for him to imagine. But he considers all of the programs he’s done while in prison, and looks to a player who left the gym and played professionally on the outside as a testament to what’s possible for him… \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That player is Lavonte McDowell, whom the coaches consider the team’s success story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In many ways, McDowell’s story unfolded the same way as Murphy’s. He was shot in the commission of his crime, became a paraplegic, went straight from the hospital room to a jail cell, and learned everything about his disability on his own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows the bleachers of a gym. In front of the bleachers is a wheelchair with a prosthetic leg in it.\" class=\"wp-image-12105859\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-10-9e5a6907-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Quentin “Q” Murphy’s prosthetic leg rests in his everyday wheelchair while he is at practice in his sports wheelchair. He had to navigate prison life for the first time while newly being an amputee. He found wheelchair basketball to be a solace. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He joined the team as it was finding its footing. It wasn’t too long before coaches were telling him men were starting to look at him as a leader, but McDowell didn’t see it right away. He just knew that he wanted to change and couldn’t do it alone. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I felt like I needed people to hold me accountable for my own actions because I couldn’t help myself or hold myself accountable,” he says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His name was the first thing to go. Around the prison, men knew him by a street name from his gang days: “Everybody in the prison knew me by Chaos,” he says. About two months after joining the team, he stopped answering to it. “This is a false belief. This is not even my name,” he says. From then on, he told people his name was Lavonte.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fast-forward to the fall of 2024: McDowell and Joe Chambers remember the team gathered in a circle. Joe Chambers, who was already playing for the Los Angeles Clippers Chairmen, had some news to share. The Chairmen wanted McDowell to come play for them. McDowell cried tears of joy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-10 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of wheelchair basketball players on the court in the early morning outdoors. In the foreground is a Black man laughing joyfully in a wheelchair.\" class=\"wp-image-12105855\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-06-eb72ab0c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The men check in before they play, sharing news from back home and welcoming new players. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-11 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105860\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of men playing wheelchair basketball. The skintones of the men range from dark-toned to light-toned.\" class=\"wp-image-12105860\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-11-5dad377e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Two men reach up high for the basketball during a game at practice. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105870\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a Black man with long hair speeding across the court in a blur in a wheelchair.\" class=\"wp-image-12105870\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-21-bb51b698-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A man speeds by in a wheelchair, the room blurring around him. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-12 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105861\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Mieko Chambers, a woman with light-toned skin and dark brown hair, talking to a man with medium-toned skin sitting in a wheelchair. Another man with light-toned skin, in a wheelchair sits nearby.\" class=\"wp-image-12105861\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-12-ad785b96-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Mieko Chambers counsels players during a practice at the prison gymnasium. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-13 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105854\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a man in a wheelchair reaching up with the basketball in the air a few inches above his fingers. He is outdoors at dawn while another person stands nearby.\" class=\"wp-image-12105854\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-05-e022dbd7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Holland coaches Rudy “Jump Shot” Martinez during the early hours of the morning. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He was released in early November 2024 and has since played for the team \u003ca href=\"https://www.nwba.org/page/show/9145206-la-clippers-chairmen?subseason=950002\">during the 2025-26 season\u003c/a>, traveling to games in states he had never been to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, he works with Project Rebound, an organization that helps connect formerly incarcerated people with higher education. “I just wanted to be of service,” he says. “I took from so many people. Did so much destruction in people’s lives, and in my own life and my family’s life … I was tired of being evil and stupid.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As for the coaches, they never cut him loose. They stayed in touch, met his family, and when he needed a chair of his own, they found pieces of old chairs, built one and sent it to him. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s wonderful to have somebody to actually give you chances. That’s all individuals want in prison,” he says. “… I feel that this program can give people that. I’m living proof.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Partway through last month’s practice, Holland appears near the door holding a stack of identification cards. “Here’s all the IDs,” he tells the players. “I’m putting them up on that door. If you go to chow, grab your ID and meet me at the door.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A player looks toward the door. “Hey, coach, what if they don’t want to let us back in?” he asks. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They’re gonna let you back in,” Holland responds.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a harmless question about dinner, but it’s also a reminder of the controlled prison environment they’re in. Even for the volunteer coaches, getting through the gate is not always guaranteed. Some drive nearly an hour one way and have at times been turned away because searches have taken over the gym, lockdowns have wiped out programming for the day or staffing decisions have canceled practice, the coaches say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation says that it tries to minimize disruptions to programs, but staffing, training and emergencies have sometimes required temporary changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Through the uncertainty and the many hours of driving and labor, including fixing the chairs, the coaches still show up, even on days when they or the players can’t get into the gym. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I don’t want them to think we’ve given up on it,” Joe Chambers says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So far, the team has played only a handful of games against outside teams. Joe Chambers has brought friends in, for example, and a Berkeley-based organization that has taught adaptive sports for decades has also played against them, Holland says. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The coaches are hopeful for a future where games with outside teams happen more consistently. In their biggest dream for the program, they imagine registering the team with the National Wheelchair Basketball Association, and bringing outside teams into the facility to play enough sanctioned games to ultimately build a record and earn a national ranking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If all of those pieces fall into place, there still is one more obstacle: The CMF team can’t travel. So opponents would have to come to them and go through security, just like any other visitor at the facility. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In mid-October, after spending more than two decades behind bars, Roach walked out of CMF, uncertain but excited about his future. His family threw a homecoming party for him, and all of the wheelchair basketball program’s coaches showed up. “They’re a part of my family now,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He’s also reconnected with Jackson and McDowell. Roach knew how much wheelchair basketball meant to him inside prison, but he’s appreciative of the support network it is giving him in the free world. “When you feel isolated and alone, and you get into a program like that where it’s love, and it’s support,” he says, “like, yo, my circle expanded.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As he adjusts to his new life, he gets a chance to test the emotional regulation and character work he picked up through the program. Getting out and being around so many people so quickly, for example, has called for breathwork. “Breathe, it’s OK,” he tells himself. And having lived for so many years with so few choices in prison, the pressure to spend money on things you don’t need once you’re out is really high, Roach says. Even with small decisions, “not being impulsive” can benefit you, he says, instead of spending money and realizing later that you needed it for something more important. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He’s approaching his future in the same way: Roach has already been offered a job at a transitional home, he says, but he doesn’t want to rush into anything. He’s considering the options to make the best choice. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But one thing he knows for sure is that he wants to stay connected to the wheelchair basketball team at CMF. “Whatever role they need me in,” he says. The process for getting approved to go back in, and how long that’ll take, is unclear to him.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe one day, Roach will be back at the gym, gathering the men into a circle again. But this time, he’ll be an “outside” coach. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-14 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105874\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows a group of wheelchair basketball players all reaching up simultaneously for a basketball while in an indoor court.\" class=\"wp-image-12105874\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-25-97833ce3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The players reach upward for the basketball during a scrimmage practice. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-15 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105856\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man, holding hands with wheelchair basketball players with varying skin tones, who have their hands linked while outdoors at dawn.\" class=\"wp-image-12105856\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-07-e226ca33-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coach Holland and the players gather in a circle before and after every game to support each other and talk about challenges they are facing. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-16 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105863\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea.jpg\" alt=\"A photo shows Coach Jeremiah Holland, a White man, walking down a hall with a person in a wheelchair away from the camera.\" class=\"wp-image-12105863\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261022-WHEELCHAIR-BASKETBALL-BF-14-87d308ea-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Coaches Jeremiah Holland and Darwin Walters head home for the day after staying late at a practice. “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” He tries to remind people of their potential. “People are always larger than the role that was assigned to them,” Holland says. (Brian L. Frank for CatchLight/The Marshall Project)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "medi-cal-cuts-could-push-seniors-and-people-with-disabilities-off-of-coverage",
"title": "Medi-Cal Cuts Could Push Seniors and People With Disabilities Off of Coverage",
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"headTitle": "Medi-Cal Cuts Could Push Seniors and People With Disabilities Off of Coverage | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Julia Feinberg feels like she’s living in a sinister version of Groundhog Day. For the second year in a row \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> lawmakers have made it tougher for seniors and people with disabilities to qualify for state-funded health benefits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Feinberg, 37, who has a degenerative neuromuscular disorder, said without Medi-Cal she would be confined to a nursing home rather than living and working as a therapist in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We keep having to have the same fight over and over and over again,” Feinberg said. She requires a power wheelchair and about 19 hours of caregiving each day, which Medi-Cal covers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is cutting Medi-Cal after a decade of expansion, part of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/08/medi-cal-the-cut-healthcare-threatened/\">sweeping federal and state cuts\u003c/a> that experts estimate will kick more than 2.2 million Californians off coverage in the next four years, doubling the state’s uninsured rate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12063947\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A senior woman at home receiving health care. (LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The latest cut came in June, when state leaders approved a budget that will lower the asset limit for low-income seniors and people with disabilities to $21,000 to qualify for Medi-Cal, starting in July 2027. Feinberg, who has built up emergency savings, will have to spend about $10,000 to get under the cap.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, the state eliminated longstanding Medi-Cal asset limits, but since then lawmakers have chipped away at that policy. At the beginning of this year, state leaders reinstated an asset limit of $130,000, and the June budget lowered it further. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A primary residence and one vehicle are exempt from the new limit, but people 65 and older as well as those with disabilities cannot own a second home or car, and they can’t have more than $21,000 in \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/MC007-ENG.pdf\">savings accounts, certain retirement accounts, life insurance policies or even burial plots\u003c/a>. They must still meet \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/medi-cal/qualify/qualify-for-medi-cal-eligibility-chart/\">Medi-Cal income eligibility limits\u003c/a> of about $1,800 a month for a single person.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Advocates say the rules unfairly target older people and those with disabilities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106309\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh assists Elizabette Guéçamburu with various day-to-day tasks. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s really expensive to be disabled,” said Elizabette Guéçamburu, 44, who like Feinberg has spinal muscular atrophy and requires a power wheelchair as well as daily caregiving.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu said she’s saving up for a used wheelchair-accessible van, which costs about $75,000. Home modifications such as adding ramps and making bathrooms accessible also cost tens of thousands of dollars, none of which are covered by Medi-Cal. Guéçamburu said those expenses would be impossible to afford if she couldn’t save.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu lives on her family’s farm in Patterson where they grow walnuts, almonds and alfalfa. She works part time as the farm’s bookkeeper. In 2024, doctors diagnosed Guéçamburu’s father with prostate cancer, and he could no longer act as her caregiver. The same year, California eliminated asset limits for people with disabilities and seniors — Guéçamburu cried, able to qualify for Medi-Cal for the first time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The timing was a godsend,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12106310\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106310\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh helps Elizabette Guecamburu get inside her van in the garage of her home outside Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12106311\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106311\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh feeds Elizabette Guéçamburu her food. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, her aging father is unable to take care of her should she lose Medi-Cal, and Guéçamburu is struggling to figure out what to do with money left to her by her grandmother. She’ll likely have to put it into a special needs trust controlled by a family member and give up financial independence. She also had her family strike her from inheriting any portion of their 100-year-old farm. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/long-term-care-affordability-report/\">Private home care costs thousands of dollars a month\u003c/a>, making it hard for lower- and middle-income people to pay for it out-of-pocket.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I have to surrender our legacy just to have medical security and have the ability to live my life,” Guéçamburu said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Asset limit flip-flop\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gov. Gavin Newsom eliminated Medi-Cal asset requirements in 2024 after a yearslong campaign by senior and disability rights advocates. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/05/01/governor-newsom-proclaims-older-californians-month-2023/\">statement before the elimination\u003c/a>, Newsom said he was proud of the “bold investments” his administration was making to “protect life savings and homes.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But two years later, faced with a $12 billion budget shortfall, Newsom proposed reinstating the former $2,000 limit, arguing that more than twice as many people enrolled as previously estimated. The Legislature opposed that proposal and compromised at the current higher limit of $130,000, lowering it again to $21,000 starting next July. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106175\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at a rally alongside California Democratic Party members, labor leaders and advocates in San Francisco on Oct. 23, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lindsay Imai Hong, California director for Hand In Hand, an advocacy group supporting families that need caregiving, said organizers are looking to the next governor for change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We would love to see the asset test permanently taken off of the chopping block,” Imai Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton said in a statement to CalMatters that he opposes asset limits. He criticized the state for extending other Medi-Cal benefits beyond what it could afford, including coverage for immigrants without legal status.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Seniors and people with disabilities shouldn’t lose their coverage because they’ve managed to save some money. They’ve done the responsible thing. Why punish them for it?” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Democratic gubernatorial candidate and front-runner Xavier Becerra did not answer specific questions about the asset limit policy, but a campaign spokesperson blamed the Trump administration’s federal cuts for “squeezing” California’s Medi-Cal program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106312\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Elizabette Guecamburu does her circulation exercises in the living room of her home outside of Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Becerra will be “focused on protecting access to care and demand savings that are real, measurable and sustainable,” spokesperson Johnathan Underland said. On the campaign trail, Becerra has called himself California’s next “healthcare governor” and has \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/27/xavier-becerra-wants-to-be-the-health-care-governor-00532691\">previously floated raising taxes\u003c/a> to reverse Medi-Cal cuts, but \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/09/california-governor-healthcare-plans-2026/\">has not released detailed health policy plans\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Camille Nguyen, an attorney with the Legal Aid Society of San Mateo County, said most people who struggle to stay under the limit have little financial security.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They have all of their life savings in cash savings instead of a house. That’s their retirement. That is the amount they are expecting to live off of for the rest of their life,” Nguyen said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">State data shows about 600 people lost Medi-Cal when California reinstated the $130,000 limit. Advocates expect many more to lose Medi-Cal at the lower limit, but the state never released budget estimates before lawmakers approved the $21,000 limit. If the state reinstated the much lower $2,000 limit, the Department of Finance estimated 62,000 seniors and people with disabilities would lose Medi-Cal over two years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Limit fuels anxiety, anger among people with disabilities\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Feinberg said the prospect of losing Medi-Cal is especially scary because she would also lose access to a special disability program that pays for extra caregiving hours and has a multiyear waitlist. Caregivers help Feinberg get in and out of bed, dress and prepare her meals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before the limit was erased in 2024, Feinberg said she checked her bank account every day to make sure the balance was low. At the time, Feinberg was a graduate student and did not earn very much money. Now, as a licensed therapist Feinberg has been able to squirrel away some money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I don’t want to spend down that money. I want to save that for retirement, maybe buying a house in the future,” Feinberg said. “The prospect of not being able to have a nest egg is very unsettling.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu said she’s angry and frustrated that the state views services for people with disabilities as expendable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s exhausting to have to justify your existence every legislative cycle,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/10/california-medi-cal-asset-limit-cut/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Julia Feinberg feels like she’s living in a sinister version of Groundhog Day. For the second year in a row \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> lawmakers have made it tougher for seniors and people with disabilities to qualify for state-funded health benefits. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Julia Feinberg feels like she’s living in a sinister version of Groundhog Day. For the second year in a row \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> lawmakers have made it tougher for seniors and people with disabilities to qualify for state-funded health benefits. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Feinberg, 37, who has a degenerative neuromuscular disorder, said without Medi-Cal she would be confined to a nursing home rather than living and working as a therapist in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Feinberg, 37, who has a degenerative neuromuscular disorder, said without Medi-Cal she would be confined to a nursing home rather than living and working as a therapist in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We keep having to have the same fight over and over and over again,” Feinberg said. She requires a power wheelchair and about 19 hours of caregiving each day, which Medi-Cal covers.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>“We keep having to have the same fight over and over and over again,” Feinberg said. She requires a power wheelchair and about 19 hours of caregiving each day, which Medi-Cal covers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California is cutting Medi-Cal after a decade of expansion, part of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/08/medi-cal-the-cut-healthcare-threatened/\">sweeping federal and state cuts\u003c/a> that experts estimate will kick more than 2.2 million Californians off coverage in the next four years, doubling the state’s uninsured rate. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>California is cutting Medi-Cal after a decade of expansion, part of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/08/medi-cal-the-cut-healthcare-threatened/\">sweeping federal and state cuts\u003c/a> that experts estimate will kick more than 2.2 million Californians off coverage in the next four years, doubling the state’s uninsured rate. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The latest cut came in June, when state leaders approved a budget that will lower the asset limit for low-income seniors and people with disabilities to $21,000 to qualify for Medi-Cal, starting in July 2027. Feinberg, who has built up emergency savings, will have to spend about $10,000 to get under the cap.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The latest cut came in June, when state leaders approved a budget that will lower the asset limit for low-income seniors and people with disabilities to $21,000 to qualify for Medi-Cal, starting in July 2027. Feinberg, who has built up emergency savings, will have to spend about $10,000 to get under the cap.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In 2024, the state eliminated longstanding Medi-Cal asset limits, but since then lawmakers have chipped away at that policy. At the beginning of this year, state leaders reinstated an asset limit of $130,000, and the June budget lowered it further. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In 2024, the state eliminated longstanding Medi-Cal asset limits, but since then lawmakers have chipped away at that policy. At the beginning of this year, state leaders reinstated an asset limit of $130,000, and the June budget lowered it further. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>A primary residence and one vehicle are exempt from the new limit, but people 65 and older as well as those with disabilities cannot own a second home or car, and they can’t have more than $21,000 in \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/MC007-ENG.pdf\">savings accounts, certain retirement accounts, life insurance policies or even burial plots\u003c/a>. They must still meet \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/medi-cal/qualify/qualify-for-medi-cal-eligibility-chart/\">Medi-Cal income eligibility limits\u003c/a> of about $1,800 a month for a single person.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>A primary residence and one vehicle are exempt from the new limit, but people 65 and older as well as those with disabilities cannot own a second home or car, and they can’t have more than $21,000 in \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/MC007-ENG.pdf\">savings accounts, certain retirement accounts, life insurance policies or even burial plots\u003c/a>. They must still meet \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/medi-cal/qualify/qualify-for-medi-cal-eligibility-chart/\">Medi-Cal income eligibility limits\u003c/a> of about $1,800 a month for a single person.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Advocates say the rules unfairly target older people and those with disabilities. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Advocates say the rules unfairly target older people and those with disabilities. \u003c/p>\n"
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106309\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"> Caretaker Lexi Marsh assists Elizabette Guéçamburu with various day-to-day tasks.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s really expensive to be disabled,” said Elizabette Guéçamburu, 44, who like Feinberg has spinal muscular atrophy and requires a power wheelchair as well as daily caregiving.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It’s really expensive to be disabled,” said Elizabette Guéçamburu, 44, who like Feinberg has spinal muscular atrophy and requires a power wheelchair as well as daily caregiving.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Guéçamburu said she’s saving up for a used wheelchair-accessible van, which costs about $75,000. Home modifications such as adding ramps and making bathrooms accessible also cost tens of thousands of dollars, none of which are covered by Medi-Cal. Guéçamburu said those expenses would be impossible to afford if she couldn’t save.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Guéçamburu said she’s saving up for a used wheelchair-accessible van, which costs about $75,000. Home modifications such as adding ramps and making bathrooms accessible also cost tens of thousands of dollars, none of which are covered by Medi-Cal. Guéçamburu said those expenses would be impossible to afford if she couldn’t save.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Guéçamburu lives on her family’s farm in Patterson where they grow walnuts, almonds and alfalfa. She works part time as the farm’s bookkeeper. In 2024, doctors diagnosed Guéçamburu’s father with prostate cancer, and he could no longer act as her caregiver. The same year, California eliminated asset limits for people with disabilities and seniors — Guéçamburu cried, able to qualify for Medi-Cal for the first time. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Guéçamburu lives on her family’s farm in Patterson where they grow walnuts, almonds and alfalfa. She works part time as the farm’s bookkeeper. In 2024, doctors diagnosed Guéçamburu’s father with prostate cancer, and he could no longer act as her caregiver. The same year, California eliminated asset limits for people with disabilities and seniors — Guéçamburu cried, able to qualify for Medi-Cal for the first time. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The timing was a godsend,” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106310\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh helps Elizabette Guecamburu get inside her van in the garage of her home outside Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106310\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh helps Elizabette Guecamburu get inside her van in the garage of her home outside Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106311\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh feeds Elizabette Guéçamburu her food. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Now, her aging father is unable to take care of her should she lose Medi-Cal, and Guéçamburu is struggling to figure out what to do with money left to her by her grandmother. She’ll likely have to put it into a special needs trust controlled by a family member and give up financial independence. She also had her family strike her from inheriting any portion of their 100-year-old farm. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/long-term-care-affordability-report/\">Private home care costs thousands of dollars a month\u003c/a>, making it hard for lower- and middle-income people to pay for it out-of-pocket.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Now, her aging father is unable to take care of her should she lose Medi-Cal, and Guéçamburu is struggling to figure out what to do with money left to her by her grandmother. She’ll likely have to put it into a special needs trust controlled by a family member and give up financial independence. She also had her family strike her from inheriting any portion of their 100-year-old farm. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/long-term-care-affordability-report/\">Private home care costs thousands of dollars a month\u003c/a>, making it hard for lower- and middle-income people to pay for it out-of-pocket.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I have to surrender our legacy just to have medical security and have the ability to live my life,” Guéçamburu said. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>“I have to surrender our legacy just to have medical security and have the ability to live my life,” Guéçamburu said. \u003c/p>\n"
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{
"blockName": "core/heading",
"attrs": {
"text": "Asset limit flip-flop",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Asset limit flip-flop\u003c/h2>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Asset limit flip-flop\u003c/h2>\n"
],
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom eliminated Medi-Cal asset requirements in 2024 after a yearslong campaign by senior and disability rights advocates. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/05/01/governor-newsom-proclaims-older-californians-month-2023/\">statement before the elimination\u003c/a>, Newsom said he was proud of the “bold investments” his administration was making to “protect life savings and homes.”\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom eliminated Medi-Cal asset requirements in 2024 after a yearslong campaign by senior and disability rights advocates. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/05/01/governor-newsom-proclaims-older-californians-month-2023/\">statement before the elimination\u003c/a>, Newsom said he was proud of the “bold investments” his administration was making to “protect life savings and homes.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But two years later, faced with a $12 billion budget shortfall, Newsom proposed reinstating the former $2,000 limit, arguing that more than twice as many people enrolled as previously estimated. The Legislature opposed that proposal and compromised at the current higher limit of $130,000, lowering it again to $21,000 starting next July. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But two years later, faced with a $12 billion budget shortfall, Newsom proposed reinstating the former $2,000 limit, arguing that more than twice as many people enrolled as previously estimated. The Legislature opposed that proposal and compromised at the current higher limit of $130,000, lowering it again to $21,000 starting next July. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106175\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at a rally alongside California Democratic Party members, labor leaders and advocates in San Francisco on Oct. 23, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106175\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at a rally alongside California Democratic Party members, labor leaders and advocates in San Francisco on Oct. 23, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Lindsay Imai Hong, California director for Hand In Hand, an advocacy group supporting families that need caregiving, said organizers are looking to the next governor for change.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We would love to see the asset test permanently taken off of the chopping block,” Imai Hong said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton said in a statement to CalMatters that he opposes asset limits. He criticized the state for extending other Medi-Cal benefits beyond what it could afford, including coverage for immigrants without legal status.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton said in a statement to CalMatters that he opposes asset limits. He criticized the state for extending other Medi-Cal benefits beyond what it could afford, including coverage for immigrants without legal status.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Seniors and people with disabilities shouldn’t lose their coverage because they’ve managed to save some money. They’ve done the responsible thing. Why punish them for it?” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Democratic gubernatorial candidate and front-runner Xavier Becerra did not answer specific questions about the asset limit policy, but a campaign spokesperson blamed the Trump administration’s federal cuts for “squeezing” California’s Medi-Cal program.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106312\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Elizabette Guecamburu does her circulation exercises in the living room of her home outside of Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106312\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Elizabette Guecamburu does her circulation exercises in the living room of her home outside of Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Becerra will be “focused on protecting access to care and demand savings that are real, measurable and sustainable,” spokesperson Johnathan Underland said. On the campaign trail, Becerra has called himself California’s next “healthcare governor” and has \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/27/xavier-becerra-wants-to-be-the-health-care-governor-00532691\">previously floated raising taxes\u003c/a> to reverse Medi-Cal cuts, but \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/09/california-governor-healthcare-plans-2026/\">has not released detailed health policy plans\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Becerra will be “focused on protecting access to care and demand savings that are real, measurable and sustainable,” spokesperson Johnathan Underland said. On the campaign trail, Becerra has called himself California’s next “healthcare governor” and has \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/27/xavier-becerra-wants-to-be-the-health-care-governor-00532691\">previously floated raising taxes\u003c/a> to reverse Medi-Cal cuts, but \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/09/california-governor-healthcare-plans-2026/\">has not released detailed health policy plans\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Camille Nguyen, an attorney with the Legal Aid Society of San Mateo County, said most people who struggle to stay under the limit have little financial security.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Camille Nguyen, an attorney with the Legal Aid Society of San Mateo County, said most people who struggle to stay under the limit have little financial security.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They have all of their life savings in cash savings instead of a house. That’s their retirement. That is the amount they are expecting to live off of for the rest of their life,” Nguyen said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“They have all of their life savings in cash savings instead of a house. That’s their retirement. That is the amount they are expecting to live off of for the rest of their life,” Nguyen said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>State data shows about 600 people lost Medi-Cal when California reinstated the $130,000 limit. Advocates expect many more to lose Medi-Cal at the lower limit, but the state never released budget estimates before lawmakers approved the $21,000 limit. If the state reinstated the much lower $2,000 limit, the Department of Finance estimated 62,000 seniors and people with disabilities would lose Medi-Cal over two years. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>State data shows about 600 people lost Medi-Cal when California reinstated the $130,000 limit. Advocates expect many more to lose Medi-Cal at the lower limit, but the state never released budget estimates before lawmakers approved the $21,000 limit. If the state reinstated the much lower $2,000 limit, the Department of Finance estimated 62,000 seniors and people with disabilities would lose Medi-Cal over two years. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Limit fuels anxiety, anger among people with disabilities\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Feinberg said the prospect of losing Medi-Cal is especially scary because she would also lose access to a special disability program that pays for extra caregiving hours and has a multiyear waitlist. Caregivers help Feinberg get in and out of bed, dress and prepare her meals.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Feinberg said the prospect of losing Medi-Cal is especially scary because she would also lose access to a special disability program that pays for extra caregiving hours and has a multiyear waitlist. Caregivers help Feinberg get in and out of bed, dress and prepare her meals.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Before the limit was erased in 2024, Feinberg said she checked her bank account every day to make sure the balance was low. At the time, Feinberg was a graduate student and did not earn very much money. Now, as a licensed therapist Feinberg has been able to squirrel away some money.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Before the limit was erased in 2024, Feinberg said she checked her bank account every day to make sure the balance was low. At the time, Feinberg was a graduate student and did not earn very much money. Now, as a licensed therapist Feinberg has been able to squirrel away some money.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to spend down that money. I want to save that for retirement, maybe buying a house in the future,” Feinberg said. “The prospect of not being able to have a nest egg is very unsettling.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to spend down that money. I want to save that for retirement, maybe buying a house in the future,” Feinberg said. “The prospect of not being able to have a nest egg is very unsettling.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Guéçamburu said she’s angry and frustrated that the state views services for people with disabilities as expendable.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s exhausting to have to justify your existence every legislative cycle,” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It’s exhausting to have to justify your existence every legislative cycle,” she said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/10/california-medi-cal-asset-limit-cut/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Next July, new Medi-Cal rules prohibit seniors and people with disabilities from saving more than $21,000. Senior and disability rights advocates say the cuts unfairly target vulnerable groups.",
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"title": "Medi-Cal Cuts Could Push Seniors and People With Disabilities Off of Coverage | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Julia Feinberg feels like she’s living in a sinister version of Groundhog Day. For the second year in a row \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> lawmakers have made it tougher for seniors and people with disabilities to qualify for state-funded health benefits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Feinberg, 37, who has a degenerative neuromuscular disorder, said without Medi-Cal she would be confined to a nursing home rather than living and working as a therapist in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We keep having to have the same fight over and over and over again,” Feinberg said. She requires a power wheelchair and about 19 hours of caregiving each day, which Medi-Cal covers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California is cutting Medi-Cal after a decade of expansion, part of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/08/medi-cal-the-cut-healthcare-threatened/\">sweeping federal and state cuts\u003c/a> that experts estimate will kick more than 2.2 million Californians off coverage in the next four years, doubling the state’s uninsured rate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12063947\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A senior woman at home receiving health care. (LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The latest cut came in June, when state leaders approved a budget that will lower the asset limit for low-income seniors and people with disabilities to $21,000 to qualify for Medi-Cal, starting in July 2027. Feinberg, who has built up emergency savings, will have to spend about $10,000 to get under the cap.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, the state eliminated longstanding Medi-Cal asset limits, but since then lawmakers have chipped away at that policy. At the beginning of this year, state leaders reinstated an asset limit of $130,000, and the June budget lowered it further. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A primary residence and one vehicle are exempt from the new limit, but people 65 and older as well as those with disabilities cannot own a second home or car, and they can’t have more than $21,000 in \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/MC007-ENG.pdf\">savings accounts, certain retirement accounts, life insurance policies or even burial plots\u003c/a>. They must still meet \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/medi-cal/qualify/qualify-for-medi-cal-eligibility-chart/\">Medi-Cal income eligibility limits\u003c/a> of about $1,800 a month for a single person.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Advocates say the rules unfairly target older people and those with disabilities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106309\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_04-a244a4ca-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh assists Elizabette Guéçamburu with various day-to-day tasks. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s really expensive to be disabled,” said Elizabette Guéçamburu, 44, who like Feinberg has spinal muscular atrophy and requires a power wheelchair as well as daily caregiving.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu said she’s saving up for a used wheelchair-accessible van, which costs about $75,000. Home modifications such as adding ramps and making bathrooms accessible also cost tens of thousands of dollars, none of which are covered by Medi-Cal. Guéçamburu said those expenses would be impossible to afford if she couldn’t save.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu lives on her family’s farm in Patterson where they grow walnuts, almonds and alfalfa. She works part time as the farm’s bookkeeper. In 2024, doctors diagnosed Guéçamburu’s father with prostate cancer, and he could no longer act as her caregiver. The same year, California eliminated asset limits for people with disabilities and seniors — Guéçamburu cried, able to qualify for Medi-Cal for the first time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The timing was a godsend,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12106310\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106310\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926-ASSET-LIMIT-LV_CM_24-4689659e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh helps Elizabette Guecamburu get inside her van in the garage of her home outside Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12106311\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106311\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_20-967a950c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Caretaker Lexi Marsh feeds Elizabette Guéçamburu her food. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, her aging father is unable to take care of her should she lose Medi-Cal, and Guéçamburu is struggling to figure out what to do with money left to her by her grandmother. She’ll likely have to put it into a special needs trust controlled by a family member and give up financial independence. She also had her family strike her from inheriting any portion of their 100-year-old farm. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/long-term-care-affordability-report/\">Private home care costs thousands of dollars a month\u003c/a>, making it hard for lower- and middle-income people to pay for it out-of-pocket.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I have to surrender our legacy just to have medical security and have the ability to live my life,” Guéçamburu said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Asset limit flip-flop\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gov. Gavin Newsom eliminated Medi-Cal asset requirements in 2024 after a yearslong campaign by senior and disability rights advocates. In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/05/01/governor-newsom-proclaims-older-californians-month-2023/\">statement before the elimination\u003c/a>, Newsom said he was proud of the “bold investments” his administration was making to “protect life savings and homes.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But two years later, faced with a $12 billion budget shortfall, Newsom proposed reinstating the former $2,000 limit, arguing that more than twice as many people enrolled as previously estimated. The Legislature opposed that proposal and compromised at the current higher limit of $130,000, lowering it again to $21,000 starting next July. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106175\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-PROP50VICTORYLAP-33-BL-KQED-7273678d-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at a rally alongside California Democratic Party members, labor leaders and advocates in San Francisco on Oct. 23, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lindsay Imai Hong, California director for Hand In Hand, an advocacy group supporting families that need caregiving, said organizers are looking to the next governor for change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We would love to see the asset test permanently taken off of the chopping block,” Imai Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton said in a statement to CalMatters that he opposes asset limits. He criticized the state for extending other Medi-Cal benefits beyond what it could afford, including coverage for immigrants without legal status.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Seniors and people with disabilities shouldn’t lose their coverage because they’ve managed to save some money. They’ve done the responsible thing. Why punish them for it?” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Democratic gubernatorial candidate and front-runner Xavier Becerra did not answer specific questions about the asset limit policy, but a campaign spokesperson blamed the Trump administration’s federal cuts for “squeezing” California’s Medi-Cal program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106312\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/101926_ASSET-LIMIT_LV_CM_07-2a2066eb-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Elizabette Guecamburu does her circulation exercises in the living room of her home outside of Patterson on Oct. 16, 2026. Guecamburu is afraid that recently passed state Medi-Cal cuts will disqualify her from benefits. (Larry Valenzuela/CalMatters)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Becerra will be “focused on protecting access to care and demand savings that are real, measurable and sustainable,” spokesperson Johnathan Underland said. On the campaign trail, Becerra has called himself California’s next “healthcare governor” and has \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/27/xavier-becerra-wants-to-be-the-health-care-governor-00532691\">previously floated raising taxes\u003c/a> to reverse Medi-Cal cuts, but \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/09/california-governor-healthcare-plans-2026/\">has not released detailed health policy plans\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Camille Nguyen, an attorney with the Legal Aid Society of San Mateo County, said most people who struggle to stay under the limit have little financial security.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They have all of their life savings in cash savings instead of a house. That’s their retirement. That is the amount they are expecting to live off of for the rest of their life,” Nguyen said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">State data shows about 600 people lost Medi-Cal when California reinstated the $130,000 limit. Advocates expect many more to lose Medi-Cal at the lower limit, but the state never released budget estimates before lawmakers approved the $21,000 limit. If the state reinstated the much lower $2,000 limit, the Department of Finance estimated 62,000 seniors and people with disabilities would lose Medi-Cal over two years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Limit fuels anxiety, anger among people with disabilities\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Feinberg said the prospect of losing Medi-Cal is especially scary because she would also lose access to a special disability program that pays for extra caregiving hours and has a multiyear waitlist. Caregivers help Feinberg get in and out of bed, dress and prepare her meals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before the limit was erased in 2024, Feinberg said she checked her bank account every day to make sure the balance was low. At the time, Feinberg was a graduate student and did not earn very much money. Now, as a licensed therapist Feinberg has been able to squirrel away some money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I don’t want to spend down that money. I want to save that for retirement, maybe buying a house in the future,” Feinberg said. “The prospect of not being able to have a nest egg is very unsettling.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Guéçamburu said she’s angry and frustrated that the state views services for people with disabilities as expendable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s exhausting to have to justify your existence every legislative cycle,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/10/california-medi-cal-asset-limit-cut/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "death-linked-to-new-opioid-included-in-san-franciscos-latest-overdose-snapshot",
"title": "Death Linked to New Opioid Included in San Francisco’s Latest Overdose Snapshot",
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"headTitle": "Death Linked to New Opioid Included in San Francisco’s Latest Overdose Snapshot | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\">San Francisco\u003c/a> recorded 48 fatal drug overdoses in September, placing the total number of such accidental deaths this year at 399 — including the city’s first fatal overdose from a synthetic opioid sold at gas stations and convenience stores, officials said.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>The kratom-derived opioid MGM-15 produces \u003ca href=\"https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2026-13581.pdf\">more potent effects than morphine\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The products are not safe and can pose a risk of overdosing,” said Hillary Kunins, director of Behavioral Health and Mental Health with the San Francisco Health Department, at a press conference Friday. “People should avoid products that don’t come from reputable sources. And products that contain kratom and kratom-derived substances.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Earlier this week, the health department \u003ca href=\"https://www.sf.gov/news-fatal-overdose-involving-kratom-derived-opioid\">shared\u003c/a> a photo of the pill’s bright purple packaging, which was marketed as a “paradise blend” of “uncaria tomentosa extract” — an herbal supplement derived from a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/cats-claw?\">wild-growing woody vine\u003c/a> found in the Amazon rainforest and other tropical areas of Central and South America.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>It’s colloquially referred to as “cat’s claw.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106020\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A person rides a skateboard by Houdini’s Smoke Shop in downtown San José on May 28, 2025. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While very few high-quality scientific studies have been conducted on the drug, the National Institutes of Health’s website said it “appears to be safe when used orally for short periods of time.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The packaging shared by the health department doesn’t appear to mention, at all, kratom or MGM-15. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The drug has been labeled as a schedule-1 controlled substance by the Drug Enforcement Agency and can cause physical and psychological dependence.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Officials in Utah and Washington have previously identified overdose deaths from MGM-15 in those states.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anyone believed to be suffering an overdose after consuming MGM-15, health officials said, should be given naloxone, often called by its brand name Narcan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">According to the latest \u003ca href=\"https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2026_10_OCME_Overdose_Report_mlQYRnv.pdf\">snapshot\u003c/a> of the city’s overdose crisis provided by the medical examiner, the majority of the individuals who died in September were white men. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Nearly half of the deaths occurred in ZIP codes that include the Tenderloin, Civic Center and Mid-Market neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Overdose deaths have fallen in recent years, but they are still more common than they were before the pandemic in San Francisco, a city with a death rate that is among the worst in the U.S.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\">San Francisco\u003c/a> recorded 48 fatal drug overdoses in September, placing the total number of such accidental deaths this year at 399 — including the city’s first fatal overdose from a synthetic opioid sold at gas stations and convenience stores, officials said.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>The kratom-derived opioid MGM-15 produces \u003ca href=\"https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2026-13581.pdf\">more potent effects than morphine\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The products are not safe and can pose a risk of overdosing,” said Hillary Kunins, director of Behavioral Health and Mental Health with the San Francisco Health Department, at a press conference Friday. “People should avoid products that don’t come from reputable sources. And products that contain kratom and kratom-derived substances.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Earlier this week, the health department \u003ca href=\"https://www.sf.gov/news-fatal-overdose-involving-kratom-derived-opioid\">shared\u003c/a> a photo of the pill’s bright purple packaging, which was marketed as a “paradise blend” of “uncaria tomentosa extract” — an herbal supplement derived from a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/cats-claw?\">wild-growing woody vine\u003c/a> found in the Amazon rainforest and other tropical areas of Central and South America.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>It’s colloquially referred to as “cat’s claw.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\">San Francisco\u003c/a> recorded 48 fatal drug overdoses in September, placing the total number of such accidental deaths this year at 399 — including the city’s first fatal overdose from a synthetic opioid sold at gas stations and convenience stores, officials said.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>The kratom-derived opioid MGM-15 produces \u003ca href=\"https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2026-13581.pdf\">more potent effects than morphine\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The products are not safe and can pose a risk of overdosing,” said Hillary Kunins, director of Behavioral Health and Mental Health with the San Francisco Health Department, at a press conference Friday. “People should avoid products that don’t come from reputable sources. And products that contain kratom and kratom-derived substances.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Earlier this week, the health department \u003ca href=\"https://www.sf.gov/news-fatal-overdose-involving-kratom-derived-opioid\">shared\u003c/a> a photo of the pill’s bright purple packaging, which was marketed as a “paradise blend” of “uncaria tomentosa extract” — an herbal supplement derived from a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/cats-claw?\">wild-growing woody vine\u003c/a> found in the Amazon rainforest and other tropical areas of Central and South America.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>It’s colloquially referred to as “cat’s claw.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106020\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A person rides a skateboard by Houdini’s Smoke Shop in downtown San José on May 28, 2025. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The drug has been labeled as a schedule-1 controlled substance by the Drug Enforcement Agency and can cause physical and psychological dependence.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Officials in Utah and Washington have previously identified overdose deaths from MGM-15 in those states.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Anyone believed to be suffering an overdose after consuming MGM-15, health officials said, should be given naloxone, often called by its brand name Narcan.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>According to the latest \u003ca href=\"https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2026_10_OCME_Overdose_Report_mlQYRnv.pdf\">snapshot\u003c/a> of the city’s overdose crisis provided by the medical examiner, the majority of the individuals who died in September were white men. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Nearly half of the deaths occurred in ZIP codes that include the Tenderloin, Civic Center and Mid-Market neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Overdose deaths have fallen in recent years, but they are still more common than they were before the pandemic in San Francisco, a city with a death rate that is among the worst in the U.S.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "In September, 48 individuals died from accidental overdoses in San Francisco, according to the latest report on the city’s overdose crisis provided by the medical examiner.",
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"title": "Death Linked to New Opioid Included in San Francisco’s Latest Overdose Snapshot | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco\">San Francisco\u003c/a> recorded 48 fatal drug overdoses in September, placing the total number of such accidental deaths this year at 399 — including the city’s first fatal overdose from a synthetic opioid sold at gas stations and convenience stores, officials said.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>The kratom-derived opioid MGM-15 produces \u003ca href=\"https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2026-13581.pdf\">more potent effects than morphine\u003c/a>.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The products are not safe and can pose a risk of overdosing,” said Hillary Kunins, director of Behavioral Health and Mental Health with the San Francisco Health Department, at a press conference Friday. “People should avoid products that don’t come from reputable sources. And products that contain kratom and kratom-derived substances.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Earlier this week, the health department \u003ca href=\"https://www.sf.gov/news-fatal-overdose-involving-kratom-derived-opioid\">shared\u003c/a> a photo of the pill’s bright purple packaging, which was marketed as a “paradise blend” of “uncaria tomentosa extract” — an herbal supplement derived from a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/cats-claw?\">wild-growing woody vine\u003c/a> found in the Amazon rainforest and other tropical areas of Central and South America.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>It’s colloquially referred to as “cat’s claw.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106020\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/250528-SJSMOKESHOPS-JG-4_qed-82757d8a-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A person rides a skateboard by Houdini’s Smoke Shop in downtown San José on May 28, 2025. (Joseph Geha/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While very few high-quality scientific studies have been conducted on the drug, the National Institutes of Health’s website said it “appears to be safe when used orally for short periods of time.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The packaging shared by the health department doesn’t appear to mention, at all, kratom or MGM-15. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The drug has been labeled as a schedule-1 controlled substance by the Drug Enforcement Agency and can cause physical and psychological dependence.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Officials in Utah and Washington have previously identified overdose deaths from MGM-15 in those states.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anyone believed to be suffering an overdose after consuming MGM-15, health officials said, should be given naloxone, often called by its brand name Narcan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">According to the latest \u003ca href=\"https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2026_10_OCME_Overdose_Report_mlQYRnv.pdf\">snapshot\u003c/a> of the city’s overdose crisis provided by the medical examiner, the majority of the individuals who died in September were white men. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Nearly half of the deaths occurred in ZIP codes that include the Tenderloin, Civic Center and Mid-Market neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Overdose deaths have fallen in recent years, but they are still more common than they were before the pandemic in San Francisco, a city with a death rate that is among the worst in the U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "oakland-immigration-arrest-raises-questions-about-ice-free-zones-training-at-hospitals",
"title": "East Bay Immigration Arrest Raises Questions About ‘ICE-Free Zones,’ Training at Hospitals",
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"headTitle": "East Bay Immigration Arrest Raises Questions About ‘ICE-Free Zones,’ Training at Hospitals | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After immigration authorities detained a man in Emeryville last week and brought him to an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/highland-hospital\">Alameda County hospital\u003c/a>, some medical staff said they didn’t receive legally required training that would have helped them respond to enforcement activity. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Several staff members at Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus in Oakland told administrators in a letter that the Oct. 16 arrival of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a detainee “highlighted major hazards to the rights and safety of our patients.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Immigration agents brought a man to Highland for treatment after an agent allegedly tackled him and fractured six of his ribs, said Nikolas De Bremaeker, an attorney at Centro Legal De La Raza who represents the man. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">De Bremaeker and some employees said agents allegedly tried to obstruct access to counsel, to direct medical treatment and asked staff for medical information. The agent who tackled the patient, the attorney said, had been “sitting on his bed, grinning at him.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s incredibly scary,” De Bremaeker told KQED. “It’s just unacceptable for ICE agents to be terrorizing folks inside a hospital.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1505\" height=\"1432\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105985\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg 1505w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d-160x152.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1505px) 100vw, 1505px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">About two dozen community members were on the lookout for agents on Thursday morning for hours, being directed by others to make noise if immigration authorities exited or entered the facility. They’d been showing up since Monday, an organizer said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Alameda Health System, which Highland is a part of, declined to comment on allegations specific to De Bremaeker’s client’s care, citing patient confidentiality. But said, generally, law enforcement does not direct treatment and the system is complying with all laws and requirements concerning immigration enforcement in its facilities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In an earlier statement to KQED about the ICE activity, AHS said that it activated an Incident Command Center and that security personnel were on site monitoring developments. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Shortly after a planned demonstration against ICE’s presence got underway on Friday, the health system told KQED that no patients at Highland Hospital were in ICE custody, and ICE personnel were not present on the property. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Alameda Health System’s training falls short, staff says\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some staff members told AHS in the letter that they “at all levels, remain confused and consistently express a lack of clarity on policy when patients are brought in civil detention.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This is out of step with current best practices in the state of California,” the staff members wrote. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb81\">Senate Bill 81\u003c/a>, which took effect in September 2025, requires medical health care providers to restrict certain immigration information from being shared and, as part of new restrictions to nonpublic areas, facilities must inform staff on how to respond to requests to access sites and establish procedures for receiving visitors.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12074474\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus is seen through flowering branches in Oakland on Feb. 24, 2026. The hospital is part of Alameda Health System. (Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But staff told administrators the hospital system isn’t in compliance with that law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ansel Schmidt, a physical therapist at the Highland Hospital, isn’t on the patient’s care team, but helped draft the letter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I’m not sure that I’ve received anything that I would call training,” Schmidt told KQED. What Schmidt has received is a “badge buddy,” or a reference guide, that he said implies staff can cooperate with ICE. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A badge buddy reviewed by KQED shows that staff are instructed to notify an administrator when a patient in ICE custody shows up for care. Providers request agents leave during evaluation, inform patients of their rights and, if they don’t meet admission criteria, can be handed off to the ICE control office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Schmidt said that emails about responding to immigration activity have left him and others feeling “really confused and isolated,” because that “isn’t a training.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In response to staff concerns over training and what training is already in place, AHS said staff are told to “promptly escalate” situations through the appropriate channels where immigration authorities are present at any facility.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We reinforce these procedures through staff communications, training, scenario-based exercises, desktop training, and quick-reference ‘badge buddies’ that staff can keep with their identification badges,” AHS said. “The protocol has also been reviewed in staff webinar forums, including this week, and recordings are available to staff on our intranet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Iman Khalil, a respiratory therapist at San Leandro Hospital, part of the Alameda Health System, said staff members receive minimal training about what to do when immigration authorities show up. Khalil received the same badge and emails Schmidt did.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Allowing the agents in the hospital … undoes all that training,” Khalil said. “You really don’t think they’ll even allow the agents in the hospital. But here we are.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AHS CEO James Jackson told staff that AHS believed the man in ICE’s custody at the hospital for the last week was part of the agency’s civil immigration enforcement authority and called on personnel to review established immigration response protocols, according to an Oct. 19 email obtained and reviewed by KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Alameda County Supervisor Nikki Fortunato Bas said a scheduled Oct. 27 joint meeting between county supervisors and the Alameda Health System Board of Trustees is an opportunity “to push for doing everything possible to enforce our policies that protect immigrant communities.” Fortunato Bas said officials will discuss budget, governance and compliance with local and state policies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">ICE-free zone?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Highland Hospital, which sits on county property, also falls under Alameda County’s “ICE-free zone” ordinance that limits cooperation with federal immigration authorities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">County supervisors and advocates touted the policy, of which similar ones have been adopted across the Bay Area, as a way to push back against violent and sometimes deadly actions by immigration agents during the second Trump administration. In January, agents fatally shot Renee Good and Alex Pretti in Minnesota during a surge of immigration enforcement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But Alameda County Sheriff Yesenia Sanchez and other officials have also noted the limits of just how far the ICE-free zone can go. It doesn’t prevent immigration officials from actually being on county property, Sanchez \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2026/01/28/ice-free-zones-are-coming-to-alameda-county/\">said previously\u003c/a>. Officials in other jurisdictions with these “zones” have even referred to them as symbolic — or \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/04/ice-free-zones-community-wide-warning-system-weighed-in-richmond-amid-trump-crackdowns/\">a way to create\u003c/a> “false expectations.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1577\" height=\"1560\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105984\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg 1577w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-160x158.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-1536x1519.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1577px) 100vw, 1577px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">De Bremaeker said his client is still in ICE custody as of Thursday afternoon. Another man he represents was detained by ICE in the San Antonio neighborhood in Oakland on the same day, before being taken to another hospital for injuries that De Bremaeker said were sustained because of the officers’ actions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The two cases are part of an “unprecedented escalation” of violence from ICE, De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland City Council member Charlene Wang said in a social media video Friday afternoon that she was outraged by the arrests. She said she had been in touch with AHS administration to see if there were any legal grounds to remove immigration authorities from the property, which Wang said they “[didn’t] know the answer to yet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The attorney called on federal lawmakers to launch a congressional inquiry into ICE’s actions and, in particular, the agency’s activity in hospitals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They have been occupying these hospitals for days, creating an incredible threat to community members, terrifying folks who need medical care from going to the hospital,” De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">ICE said that De Bremaeker’s client — who the agency characterized as an “illegal alien” — was arrested as part of a targeted enforcement operation. During which, the agency said the detainee tried to assault officers and refused lawful commands. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Officers relied on their training to control the situation,” an ICE spokesperson said, adding that De Bremaeker’s client disclosed a preexisting injury of falling off a ladder two days prior. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The agency said, like other law enforcement agencies, it is standard procedure for ICE to accompany detainees for the safety of staff and public. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Renee Coe, with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, is among the community members who came out to keep watch for ICE at the hospital. She said some community members are scared to show up to the hospital because of federal agents’ presence, but urged them not to put off medical care. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AHS said its property is not being used as a staging area, operations base or processing location for immigration enforcement activities, and the immigration vehicles currently on Highland property are present “only in connection with a patient who is in immigration enforcement custody.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fortunato Bas told community members outside the hospital on Friday that her understanding of the ICE presence on the property was the same as the health system’s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“At any given time, I understand they only had two agents … maintaining legal custody of the patient at any given time,” Fortunato Bas said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">About 100 Oakland residents held an emergency press conference at 6 p.m. on Friday in front of Highland to demand accountability for local authorities, security contracting with the facility and AHS for “continuously” assisting ICE operations at the hospital.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/bkrans\">\u003cem>Brian Krans\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Several staff members at Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus in Oakland told administrators in a letter that the Oct. 16 arrival of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a detainee “highlighted major hazards to the rights and safety of our patients.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Immigration agents brought a man to Highland for treatment after an agent allegedly tackled him and fractured six of his ribs, said Nikolas De Bremaeker, an attorney at Centro Legal De La Raza who represents the man. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>De Bremaeker and some employees said agents allegedly tried to obstruct access to counsel, to direct medical treatment and asked staff for medical information. The agent who tackled the patient, the attorney said, had been “sitting on his bed, grinning at him.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s incredibly scary,” De Bremaeker told KQED. “It’s just unacceptable for ICE agents to be terrorizing folks inside a hospital.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105985\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg 1505w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d-160x152.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105985\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>About two dozen community members were on the lookout for agents on Thursday morning for hours, being directed by others to make noise if immigration authorities exited or entered the facility. They’d been showing up since Monday, an organizer said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Alameda Health System, which Highland is a part of, declined to comment on allegations specific to De Bremaeker’s client’s care, citing patient confidentiality. But said, generally, law enforcement does not direct treatment and the system is complying with all laws and requirements concerning immigration enforcement in its facilities. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In an earlier statement to KQED about the ICE activity, AHS said that it activated an Incident Command Center and that security personnel were on site monitoring developments. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Shortly after a planned demonstration against ICE’s presence got underway on Friday, the health system told KQED that no patients at Highland Hospital were in ICE custody, and ICE personnel were not present on the property. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Shortly after a planned demonstration against ICE’s presence got underway on Friday, the health system told KQED that no patients at Highland Hospital were in ICE custody, and ICE personnel were not present on the property. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Some staff members told AHS in the letter that they “at all levels, remain confused and consistently express a lack of clarity on policy when patients are brought in civil detention.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“This is out of step with current best practices in the state of California,” the staff members wrote. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb81\">Senate Bill 81\u003c/a>, which took effect in September 2025, requires medical health care providers to restrict certain immigration information from being shared and, as part of new restrictions to nonpublic areas, facilities must inform staff on how to respond to requests to access sites and establish procedures for receiving visitors.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb81\">Senate Bill 81\u003c/a>, which took effect in September 2025, requires medical health care providers to restrict certain immigration information from being shared and, as part of new restrictions to nonpublic areas, facilities must inform staff on how to respond to requests to access sites and establish procedures for receiving visitors.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12074474\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus is seen through flowering branches in Oakland on Feb. 24, 2026. The hospital is part of Alameda Health System.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But staff told administrators the hospital system isn’t in compliance with that law. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Ansel Schmidt, a physical therapist at the Highland Hospital, isn’t on the patient’s care team, but helped draft the letter. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I’m not sure that I’ve received anything that I would call training,” Schmidt told KQED. What Schmidt has received is a “badge buddy,” or a reference guide, that he said implies staff can cooperate with ICE. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>A badge buddy reviewed by KQED shows that staff are instructed to notify an administrator when a patient in ICE custody shows up for care. Providers request agents leave during evaluation, inform patients of their rights and, if they don’t meet admission criteria, can be handed off to the ICE control office. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>A badge buddy reviewed by KQED shows that staff are instructed to notify an administrator when a patient in ICE custody shows up for care. Providers request agents leave during evaluation, inform patients of their rights and, if they don’t meet admission criteria, can be handed off to the ICE control office. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Schmidt said that emails about responding to immigration activity have left him and others feeling “really confused and isolated,” because that “isn’t a training.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In response to staff concerns over training and what training is already in place, AHS said staff are told to “promptly escalate” situations through the appropriate channels where immigration authorities are present at any facility.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We reinforce these procedures through staff communications, training, scenario-based exercises, desktop training, and quick-reference ‘badge buddies’ that staff can keep with their identification badges,” AHS said. “The protocol has also been reviewed in staff webinar forums, including this week, and recordings are available to staff on our intranet.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“We reinforce these procedures through staff communications, training, scenario-based exercises, desktop training, and quick-reference ‘badge buddies’ that staff can keep with their identification badges,” AHS said. “The protocol has also been reviewed in staff webinar forums, including this week, and recordings are available to staff on our intranet.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Iman Khalil, a respiratory therapist at San Leandro Hospital, part of the Alameda Health System, said staff members receive minimal training about what to do when immigration authorities show up. Khalil received the same badge and emails Schmidt did.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Iman Khalil, a respiratory therapist at San Leandro Hospital, part of the Alameda Health System, said staff members receive minimal training about what to do when immigration authorities show up. Khalil received the same badge and emails Schmidt did.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Allowing the agents in the hospital … undoes all that training,” Khalil said. “You really don’t think they’ll even allow the agents in the hospital. But here we are.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Allowing the agents in the hospital … undoes all that training,” Khalil said. “You really don’t think they’ll even allow the agents in the hospital. But here we are.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>AHS CEO James Jackson told staff that AHS believed the man in ICE’s custody at the hospital for the last week was part of the agency’s civil immigration enforcement authority and called on personnel to review established immigration response protocols, according to an Oct. 19 email obtained and reviewed by KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>AHS CEO James Jackson told staff that AHS believed the man in ICE’s custody at the hospital for the last week was part of the agency’s civil immigration enforcement authority and called on personnel to review established immigration response protocols, according to an Oct. 19 email obtained and reviewed by KQED. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Alameda County Supervisor Nikki Fortunato Bas said a scheduled Oct. 27 joint meeting between county supervisors and the Alameda Health System Board of Trustees is an opportunity “to push for doing everything possible to enforce our policies that protect immigrant communities.” Fortunato Bas said officials will discuss budget, governance and compliance with local and state policies.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Alameda County Supervisor Nikki Fortunato Bas said a scheduled Oct. 27 joint meeting between county supervisors and the Alameda Health System Board of Trustees is an opportunity “to push for doing everything possible to enforce our policies that protect immigrant communities.” Fortunato Bas said officials will discuss budget, governance and compliance with local and state policies.\u003c/p>\n"
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"text": "ICE-free zone?",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">ICE-free zone?\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Highland Hospital, which sits on county property, also falls under Alameda County’s “ICE-free zone” ordinance that limits cooperation with federal immigration authorities. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>County supervisors and advocates touted the policy, of which similar ones have been adopted across the Bay Area, as a way to push back against violent and sometimes deadly actions by immigration agents during the second Trump administration. In January, agents fatally shot Renee Good and Alex Pretti in Minnesota during a surge of immigration enforcement. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But Alameda County Sheriff Yesenia Sanchez and other officials have also noted the limits of just how far the ICE-free zone can go. It doesn’t prevent immigration officials from actually being on county property, Sanchez \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2026/01/28/ice-free-zones-are-coming-to-alameda-county/\">said previously\u003c/a>. Officials in other jurisdictions with these “zones” have even referred to them as symbolic — or \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/04/ice-free-zones-community-wide-warning-system-weighed-in-richmond-amid-trump-crackdowns/\">a way to create\u003c/a> “false expectations.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But Alameda County Sheriff Yesenia Sanchez and other officials have also noted the limits of just how far the ICE-free zone can go. It doesn’t prevent immigration officials from actually being on county property, Sanchez \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2026/01/28/ice-free-zones-are-coming-to-alameda-county/\">said previously\u003c/a>. Officials in other jurisdictions with these “zones” have even referred to them as symbolic — or \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/04/ice-free-zones-community-wide-warning-system-weighed-in-richmond-amid-trump-crackdowns/\">a way to create\u003c/a> “false expectations.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105984\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg 1577w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-160x158.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-1536x1519.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105984\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>De Bremaeker said his client is still in ICE custody as of Thursday afternoon. Another man he represents was detained by ICE in the San Antonio neighborhood in Oakland on the same day, before being taken to another hospital for injuries that De Bremaeker said were sustained because of the officers’ actions. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>De Bremaeker said his client is still in ICE custody as of Thursday afternoon. Another man he represents was detained by ICE in the San Antonio neighborhood in Oakland on the same day, before being taken to another hospital for injuries that De Bremaeker said were sustained because of the officers’ actions. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The two cases are part of an “unprecedented escalation” of violence from ICE, De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The two cases are part of an “unprecedented escalation” of violence from ICE, De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Oakland City Council member Charlene Wang said in a social media video Friday afternoon that she was outraged by the arrests. She said she had been in touch with AHS administration to see if there were any legal grounds to remove immigration authorities from the property, which Wang said they “[didn’t] know the answer to yet.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Oakland City Council member Charlene Wang said in a social media video Friday afternoon that she was outraged by the arrests. She said she had been in touch with AHS administration to see if there were any legal grounds to remove immigration authorities from the property, which Wang said they “[didn’t] know the answer to yet.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The attorney called on federal lawmakers to launch a congressional inquiry into ICE’s actions and, in particular, the agency’s activity in hospitals. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The attorney called on federal lawmakers to launch a congressional inquiry into ICE’s actions and, in particular, the agency’s activity in hospitals. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They have been occupying these hospitals for days, creating an incredible threat to community members, terrifying folks who need medical care from going to the hospital,” De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“They have been occupying these hospitals for days, creating an incredible threat to community members, terrifying folks who need medical care from going to the hospital,” De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>ICE said that De Bremaeker’s client — who the agency characterized as an “illegal alien” — was arrested as part of a targeted enforcement operation. During which, the agency said the detainee tried to assault officers and refused lawful commands. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>ICE said that De Bremaeker’s client — who the agency characterized as an “illegal alien” — was arrested as part of a targeted enforcement operation. During which, the agency said the detainee tried to assault officers and refused lawful commands. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Officers relied on their training to control the situation,” an ICE spokesperson said, adding that De Bremaeker’s client disclosed a preexisting injury of falling off a ladder two days prior. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Officers relied on their training to control the situation,” an ICE spokesperson said, adding that De Bremaeker’s client disclosed a preexisting injury of falling off a ladder two days prior. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The agency said, like other law enforcement agencies, it is standard procedure for ICE to accompany detainees for the safety of staff and public. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The agency said, like other law enforcement agencies, it is standard procedure for ICE to accompany detainees for the safety of staff and public. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Renee Coe, with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, is among the community members who came out to keep watch for ICE at the hospital. She said some community members are scared to show up to the hospital because of federal agents’ presence, but urged them not to put off medical care. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Renee Coe, with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, is among the community members who came out to keep watch for ICE at the hospital. She said some community members are scared to show up to the hospital because of federal agents’ presence, but urged them not to put off medical care. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>AHS said its property is not being used as a staging area, operations base or processing location for immigration enforcement activities, and the immigration vehicles currently on Highland property are present “only in connection with a patient who is in immigration enforcement custody.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>AHS said its property is not being used as a staging area, operations base or processing location for immigration enforcement activities, and the immigration vehicles currently on Highland property are present “only in connection with a patient who is in immigration enforcement custody.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Fortunato Bas told community members outside the hospital on Friday that her understanding of the ICE presence on the property was the same as the health system’s.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Fortunato Bas told community members outside the hospital on Friday that her understanding of the ICE presence on the property was the same as the health system’s.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“At any given time, I understand they only had two agents … maintaining legal custody of the patient at any given time,” Fortunato Bas said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“At any given time, I understand they only had two agents … maintaining legal custody of the patient at any given time,” Fortunato Bas said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>About 100 Oakland residents held an emergency press conference at 6 p.m. on Friday in front of Highland to demand accountability for local authorities, security contracting with the facility and AHS for “continuously” assisting ICE operations at the hospital.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>About 100 Oakland residents held an emergency press conference at 6 p.m. on Friday in front of Highland to demand accountability for local authorities, security contracting with the facility and AHS for “continuously” assisting ICE operations at the hospital.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/bkrans\">\u003cem>Brian Krans\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Oakland’s Highland Hospital staff and community members expressed concerns after ICE agents allegedly brought a patient in with six fractured ribs last week. ",
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"title": "East Bay Immigration Arrest Raises Questions About ‘ICE-Free Zones,’ Training at Hospitals | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After immigration authorities detained a man in Emeryville last week and brought him to an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/highland-hospital\">Alameda County hospital\u003c/a>, some medical staff said they didn’t receive legally required training that would have helped them respond to enforcement activity. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Several staff members at Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus in Oakland told administrators in a letter that the Oct. 16 arrival of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a detainee “highlighted major hazards to the rights and safety of our patients.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Immigration agents brought a man to Highland for treatment after an agent allegedly tackled him and fractured six of his ribs, said Nikolas De Bremaeker, an attorney at Centro Legal De La Raza who represents the man. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">De Bremaeker and some employees said agents allegedly tried to obstruct access to counsel, to direct medical treatment and asked staff for medical information. The agent who tackled the patient, the attorney said, had been “sitting on his bed, grinning at him.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It’s incredibly scary,” De Bremaeker told KQED. “It’s just unacceptable for ICE agents to be terrorizing folks inside a hospital.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1505\" height=\"1432\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105985\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d.jpg 1505w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-03-5314ee6d-160x152.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1505px) 100vw, 1505px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">About two dozen community members were on the lookout for agents on Thursday morning for hours, being directed by others to make noise if immigration authorities exited or entered the facility. They’d been showing up since Monday, an organizer said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Alameda Health System, which Highland is a part of, declined to comment on allegations specific to De Bremaeker’s client’s care, citing patient confidentiality. But said, generally, law enforcement does not direct treatment and the system is complying with all laws and requirements concerning immigration enforcement in its facilities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In an earlier statement to KQED about the ICE activity, AHS said that it activated an Incident Command Center and that security personnel were on site monitoring developments. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Shortly after a planned demonstration against ICE’s presence got underway on Friday, the health system told KQED that no patients at Highland Hospital were in ICE custody, and ICE personnel were not present on the property. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Alameda Health System’s training falls short, staff says\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some staff members told AHS in the letter that they “at all levels, remain confused and consistently express a lack of clarity on policy when patients are brought in civil detention.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This is out of step with current best practices in the state of California,” the staff members wrote. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb81\">Senate Bill 81\u003c/a>, which took effect in September 2025, requires medical health care providers to restrict certain immigration information from being shared and, as part of new restrictions to nonpublic areas, facilities must inform staff on how to respond to requests to access sites and establish procedures for receiving visitors.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12074474\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/022426_ALAMEDA-COUNTY-HEALTH-CUTS-_GH_010-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Wilma Chan Highland Hospital Campus is seen through flowering branches in Oakland on Feb. 24, 2026. The hospital is part of Alameda Health System. (Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But staff told administrators the hospital system isn’t in compliance with that law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ansel Schmidt, a physical therapist at the Highland Hospital, isn’t on the patient’s care team, but helped draft the letter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I’m not sure that I’ve received anything that I would call training,” Schmidt told KQED. What Schmidt has received is a “badge buddy,” or a reference guide, that he said implies staff can cooperate with ICE. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A badge buddy reviewed by KQED shows that staff are instructed to notify an administrator when a patient in ICE custody shows up for care. Providers request agents leave during evaluation, inform patients of their rights and, if they don’t meet admission criteria, can be handed off to the ICE control office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Schmidt said that emails about responding to immigration activity have left him and others feeling “really confused and isolated,” because that “isn’t a training.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In response to staff concerns over training and what training is already in place, AHS said staff are told to “promptly escalate” situations through the appropriate channels where immigration authorities are present at any facility.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We reinforce these procedures through staff communications, training, scenario-based exercises, desktop training, and quick-reference ‘badge buddies’ that staff can keep with their identification badges,” AHS said. “The protocol has also been reviewed in staff webinar forums, including this week, and recordings are available to staff on our intranet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Iman Khalil, a respiratory therapist at San Leandro Hospital, part of the Alameda Health System, said staff members receive minimal training about what to do when immigration authorities show up. Khalil received the same badge and emails Schmidt did.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Allowing the agents in the hospital … undoes all that training,” Khalil said. “You really don’t think they’ll even allow the agents in the hospital. But here we are.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AHS CEO James Jackson told staff that AHS believed the man in ICE’s custody at the hospital for the last week was part of the agency’s civil immigration enforcement authority and called on personnel to review established immigration response protocols, according to an Oct. 19 email obtained and reviewed by KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Alameda County Supervisor Nikki Fortunato Bas said a scheduled Oct. 27 joint meeting between county supervisors and the Alameda Health System Board of Trustees is an opportunity “to push for doing everything possible to enforce our policies that protect immigrant communities.” Fortunato Bas said officials will discuss budget, governance and compliance with local and state policies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">ICE-free zone?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Highland Hospital, which sits on county property, also falls under Alameda County’s “ICE-free zone” ordinance that limits cooperation with federal immigration authorities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">County supervisors and advocates touted the policy, of which similar ones have been adopted across the Bay Area, as a way to push back against violent and sometimes deadly actions by immigration agents during the second Trump administration. In January, agents fatally shot Renee Good and Alex Pretti in Minnesota during a surge of immigration enforcement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But Alameda County Sheriff Yesenia Sanchez and other officials have also noted the limits of just how far the ICE-free zone can go. It doesn’t prevent immigration officials from actually being on county property, Sanchez \u003ca href=\"https://oaklandside.org/2026/01/28/ice-free-zones-are-coming-to-alameda-county/\">said previously\u003c/a>. Officials in other jurisdictions with these “zones” have even referred to them as symbolic — or \u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/04/ice-free-zones-community-wide-warning-system-weighed-in-richmond-amid-trump-crackdowns/\">a way to create\u003c/a> “false expectations.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1577\" height=\"1560\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105984\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd.jpg 1577w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-160x158.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-Highland-Hospital-SK-02-0b437edd-1536x1519.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1577px) 100vw, 1577px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">One side of an Alameda Health System employee’s “badge buddy” that outlines how to respond to immigration authorities when they show up to one of the facilities. (Courtesy of Iman Khalil)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">De Bremaeker said his client is still in ICE custody as of Thursday afternoon. Another man he represents was detained by ICE in the San Antonio neighborhood in Oakland on the same day, before being taken to another hospital for injuries that De Bremaeker said were sustained because of the officers’ actions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The two cases are part of an “unprecedented escalation” of violence from ICE, De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oakland City Council member Charlene Wang said in a social media video Friday afternoon that she was outraged by the arrests. She said she had been in touch with AHS administration to see if there were any legal grounds to remove immigration authorities from the property, which Wang said they “[didn’t] know the answer to yet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The attorney called on federal lawmakers to launch a congressional inquiry into ICE’s actions and, in particular, the agency’s activity in hospitals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They have been occupying these hospitals for days, creating an incredible threat to community members, terrifying folks who need medical care from going to the hospital,” De Bremaeker said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">ICE said that De Bremaeker’s client — who the agency characterized as an “illegal alien” — was arrested as part of a targeted enforcement operation. During which, the agency said the detainee tried to assault officers and refused lawful commands. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Officers relied on their training to control the situation,” an ICE spokesperson said, adding that De Bremaeker’s client disclosed a preexisting injury of falling off a ladder two days prior. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The agency said, like other law enforcement agencies, it is standard procedure for ICE to accompany detainees for the safety of staff and public. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Renee Coe, with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, is among the community members who came out to keep watch for ICE at the hospital. She said some community members are scared to show up to the hospital because of federal agents’ presence, but urged them not to put off medical care. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AHS said its property is not being used as a staging area, operations base or processing location for immigration enforcement activities, and the immigration vehicles currently on Highland property are present “only in connection with a patient who is in immigration enforcement custody.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fortunato Bas told community members outside the hospital on Friday that her understanding of the ICE presence on the property was the same as the health system’s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“At any given time, I understand they only had two agents … maintaining legal custody of the patient at any given time,” Fortunato Bas said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">About 100 Oakland residents held an emergency press conference at 6 p.m. on Friday in front of Highland to demand accountability for local authorities, security contracting with the facility and AHS for “continuously” assisting ICE operations at the hospital.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/bkrans\">\u003cem>Brian Krans\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "california-cancer-patients-disagree-over-whether-prop-38-will-help-them",
"title": "California Cancer Patients Disagree Over Whether Proposition 38 Will Help Them",
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"headTitle": "California Cancer Patients Disagree Over Whether Proposition 38 Will Help Them | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cancer patients who say their lives were saved by innovations in immunotherapy treatments are among the most vocal proponents of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102150/prop-38-borrows-8-4-billion-to-fund-immunology-research\">California’s Proposition 38\u003c/a>, arguing the $8.4 billion bond measure to fund immune-system research would save even more lives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But those who oppose Proposition 38 are also patients, who say their illnesses are being exploited to shill for an initiative that is overly narrow, opaque and expensive.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Don’t approve this measure because you want to help me or other people with Parkinson’s,” said Marianne O’Malley, a former analyst with the state’s Legislative Analyst’s Office who was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease about eight years ago. “This is the wrong way to go about things.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Backers of Proposition 38 proposed it as a solution to the Trump administration’s attack on science: where federal research funding has become diminished or uncertain, California would step in, issuing bond money to bring stability to promising projects and turn the state into a hub of excellence for immunology and immunotherapy research. But the patients who stand to benefit from such a move are divided over whether Californians should shoulder that burden instead of taxpayers across the US, and if so, whether Proposition 38 is the right way to do it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I have never thought of biomedical research as something that needs to be centered in a particular location,” said Robert Kaplan, a senior scholar at \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/cerc.html\">Stanford\u003c/a> who formerly coordinated research portfolios at the National Institutes of Health and an opponent of Proposition 38. “Proposition 38 money is good for California institutions, but it means that California taxpayers might be taking a disproportionate share of the responsibility for paying for that research.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002389\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Laurie Adami, a supporter of Proposition 38, was diagnosed with blood cancer when she was 46. She holds two cancer scans, one before she received immunotherapy treatment (left) and one after (right). (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Blood cancer survivor Laurie Adami is in favor of the measure. She was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma 20 years ago, when she was 46, and her son was in kindergarten. She fought her way through seven different treatments, including grueling rounds of chemotherapy and three experimental trials so she could survive to see him graduate from high school. In 2018, she enrolled in an immunotherapy trial where scientists reengineered Adami’s own immune cells to attack her disease.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Chemotherapy is like napalm — they poison your whole body in the hopes of killing off your cancer,” she said. “This idea of waking up the immune system is a much more elegant way to target cancers.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The therapy she received was called CAR-T. Scientists extracted a sample of Adami’s T-cells and modified them in the lab so they would attach to the specific proteins on her cancer cells. Put another way, T-cells are like the Pac Mans of the immune system, and scientists altered them so they would be hungry specifically for her type of cancer cells, then infused them back into her bloodstream to start eating. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Adami received one CAR-T infusion and has been in complete remission ever since.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my life?” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Adami is just one patient from one clinical trial. Though immunotherapy has improved \u003ca href=\"https://www.cancerresearch.org/blog/cancer-statistics-2026\">survival rates\u003c/a> for certain cancers, including lung, liver, and some types of skin and blood cancers, the treatment does not work for most people: only \u003ca href=\"https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inhealth/about-us/immunotherapy-precision-medicine-action-policy-brief\">15 to 20% of patients\u003c/a> achieve durable results. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Immunotherapy research is still in the early and experimental stages for other cancers and diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and ALS. Across treatments and conditions, only \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29394327/\">14% of drugs in clinical trials\u003c/a> ever reach FDA approval. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Despite the speculative nature of this early-stage research, caregiver Viva Mogi said she will vote for Proposition 38 for the hope it offers. Mogi put her own life and career on hold to care for her mother, who was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s ten years ago. At the time, doctors told them there was no cure and not enough medications to help.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They wished us luck,” Mogi said. Looking ahead to her own potential diagnosis and decline from the disease, she said, “I don’t ever want to go through this or put my husband through this.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002388\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Viva Mogi, a supporter of Proposition 38, is a full-time caretaker for her mother who has Alzheimer’s. (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But with state taxpayers on the hook for $4 billion in interest payments on top of the $8.4 billion bond, other patients say the debt the state would incur from supporting Proposition 38 is not worth the hope, especially in light of California’s other long-term obligations and deficits.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cancer survivor, Dan Carson is one of several retired financial analysts from the state Legislative Analyst’s Office who broke a long tradition of nonpartisan silence to speak out against the measure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Carson ran the health section of the LAO when it was tasked with evaluating the $3 billion \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1970180/proposition-14-with-handful-of-cures-calif-stem-cell-agency-has-mixed-record-will-voters-pony-up-another-5-5-billion\">stem cell bond initiative\u003c/a> in 2004 known as Proposition 71. The measure was pitched to voters as a protest against the George W. Bush administration’s abandonment of stem cell research on religious grounds. Its backers said California would become a new hub for stem cell discoveries and promised the state would receive a windfall of royalty payments to pay back the bond and interest. But the money never materialized, with the state receiving just $16 million of the $6 billion it was promised, Carson said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Similarly, Proposition 38 backers say it will be cost neutral. Provisions in the measure would require 10% of any licensing fees derived from immunotherapy treatment discoveries be paid back to the state, and that such treatments be made available to Californians at a 20% discount.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that it will ‘pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers,’” Carson said. “I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this measure, that won’t happen. Not even close.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002387\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Marianne O’Malley, who has Parkinson’s disease, works out on an elliptical trainer in her home in Sacramento on Oct. 19, 2026. Exercise is the leading therapy to slow the progress of the disease. (Fred Greaves for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When O’Malley attended her regular boxing and rock climbing classes for people with Parkinson’s — currently, exercise is the top therapy proven to slow the progression of the disease — other students approached her with questions about Proposition 38 because of her experience at the LAO. Should they vote for it? they asked.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’re all desperate for a cure, or at least a treatment,” O’Malley said. “And the disappointing thing to tell them is, ‘No, this measure doesn’t do what you think it’s going to do.’”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The campaign in favor of Proposition 38 is being financed by philanthropist Gary Michelson, who also happens to be a co-founder and chair of the brand new \u003ca href=\"https://www.calimmunology.org/\">California Institute for Immunology & Immunotherapy\u003c/a> at UCLA, which, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2026/07/proposition-38-california/\">according to the ballot measure’s criteria\u003c/a>, stands to receive half the bond money directly, then help oversee the distribution of the other half in research grants to nonprofits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The measure would also exempt this institute from complying with a series of state transparency laws, including public records act requests and open meetings, O’Malley said, meaning taxpayers won’t have a way of knowing if their money is being spent wisely.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002386\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Marianne O’Malley, who has Parkinson’s disease, rests in her backyard after exercising on an elliptical trainer at her home in Sacramento on Oct. 19, 2026. Exercise is the leading therapy to slow the progress of the disease. (Fred Greaves for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This measure hijacks the initiative process to steer public funds to a billionaire’s philanthropic project and then hides its tracks by waiving all the usual laws to promote governmental transparency,” she said. “This one is so bad and supposedly being done to help people like me, I felt a moral obligation to speak out.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If the state of California wants to be a center of scientific research, there are better ways to do it, said Judy Heiman, another former LAO analyst. Medical research grants should be subject to an open, competitive bidding process; they should be awarded based on scientific merit and public health need, not what’s popular at the ballot box. And they should undergo independent review before more funds are disbursed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Prop. 38 fails these basic tests,” Heiman said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In fact, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102760/7-5b-california-science-agency-plan-free-from-trumps-influence-will-go-to-voters\">another bond measure\u003c/a> that includes these parameters and safeguards will be on the ballot in March 2028, she pointed out. This research fund, borne from months of democratic debate and negotiation in the state legislature, is intended for a wider variety of research, including biomedical, behavioral health, and climate.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s a legitimate argument about whether California should add billions of dollars in medical research spending to its already substantial debt burden,” Heiman said. “Scientific merit, not institutional favoritism, should drive where the money goes.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But those who oppose Proposition 38 are also patients, who say their illnesses are being exploited to shill for an initiative that is overly narrow, opaque and expensive.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Don’t approve this measure because you want to help me or other people with Parkinson’s,” said Marianne O’Malley, a former analyst with the state’s Legislative Analyst’s Office who was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease about eight years ago. “This is the wrong way to go about things.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Don’t approve this measure because you want to help me or other people with Parkinson’s,” said Marianne O’Malley, a former analyst with the state’s Legislative Analyst’s Office who was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease about eight years ago. “This is the wrong way to go about things.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Backers of Proposition 38 proposed it as a solution to the Trump administration’s attack on science: where federal research funding has become diminished or uncertain, California would step in, issuing bond money to bring stability to promising projects and turn the state into a hub of excellence for immunology and immunotherapy research. But the patients who stand to benefit from such a move are divided over whether Californians should shoulder that burden instead of taxpayers across the US, and if so, whether Proposition 38 is the right way to do it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Backers of Proposition 38 proposed it as a solution to the Trump administration’s attack on science: where federal research funding has become diminished or uncertain, California would step in, issuing bond money to bring stability to promising projects and turn the state into a hub of excellence for immunology and immunotherapy research. But the patients who stand to benefit from such a move are divided over whether Californians should shoulder that burden instead of taxpayers across the US, and if so, whether Proposition 38 is the right way to do it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I have never thought of biomedical research as something that needs to be centered in a particular location,” said Robert Kaplan, a senior scholar at \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/cerc.html\">Stanford\u003c/a> who formerly coordinated research portfolios at the National Institutes of Health and an opponent of Proposition 38. “Proposition 38 money is good for California institutions, but it means that California taxpayers might be taking a disproportionate share of the responsibility for paying for that research.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002389\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Laurie Adami, a supporter of Proposition 38, was diagnosed with blood cancer when she was 46. She holds two cancer scans, one before she received immunotherapy treatment (left) and one after (right).\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002389\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Laurie Adami, a supporter of Proposition 38, was diagnosed with blood cancer when she was 46. She holds two cancer scans, one before she received immunotherapy treatment (left) and one after (right).\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Blood cancer survivor Laurie Adami is in favor of the measure. She was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma 20 years ago, when she was 46, and her son was in kindergarten. She fought her way through seven different treatments, including grueling rounds of chemotherapy and three experimental trials so she could survive to see him graduate from high school. In 2018, she enrolled in an immunotherapy trial where scientists reengineered Adami’s own immune cells to attack her disease.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Blood cancer survivor Laurie Adami is in favor of the measure. She was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma 20 years ago, when she was 46, and her son was in kindergarten. She fought her way through seven different treatments, including grueling rounds of chemotherapy and three experimental trials so she could survive to see him graduate from high school. In 2018, she enrolled in an immunotherapy trial where scientists reengineered Adami’s own immune cells to attack her disease.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Chemotherapy is like napalm — they poison your whole body in the hopes of killing off your cancer,” she said. “This idea of waking up the immune system is a much more elegant way to target cancers.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The therapy she received was called CAR-T. Scientists extracted a sample of Adami’s T-cells and modified them in the lab so they would attach to the specific proteins on her cancer cells. Put another way, T-cells are like the Pac Mans of the immune system, and scientists altered them so they would be hungry specifically for her type of cancer cells, then infused them back into her bloodstream to start eating. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The therapy she received was called CAR-T. Scientists extracted a sample of Adami’s T-cells and modified them in the lab so they would attach to the specific proteins on her cancer cells. Put another way, T-cells are like the Pac Mans of the immune system, and scientists altered them so they would be hungry specifically for her type of cancer cells, then infused them back into her bloodstream to start eating. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Adami received one CAR-T infusion and has been in complete remission ever since.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Adami received one CAR-T infusion and has been in complete remission ever since.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my life?” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my life?” she said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Adami is just one patient from one clinical trial. Though immunotherapy has improved \u003ca href=\"https://www.cancerresearch.org/blog/cancer-statistics-2026\">survival rates\u003c/a> for certain cancers, including lung, liver, and some types of skin and blood cancers, the treatment does not work for most people: only \u003ca href=\"https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inhealth/about-us/immunotherapy-precision-medicine-action-policy-brief\">15 to 20% of patients\u003c/a> achieve durable results. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Adami is just one patient from one clinical trial. Though immunotherapy has improved \u003ca href=\"https://www.cancerresearch.org/blog/cancer-statistics-2026\">survival rates\u003c/a> for certain cancers, including lung, liver, and some types of skin and blood cancers, the treatment does not work for most people: only \u003ca href=\"https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inhealth/about-us/immunotherapy-precision-medicine-action-policy-brief\">15 to 20% of patients\u003c/a> achieve durable results. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Immunotherapy research is still in the early and experimental stages for other cancers and diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and ALS. Across treatments and conditions, only \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29394327/\">14% of drugs in clinical trials\u003c/a> ever reach FDA approval. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Immunotherapy research is still in the early and experimental stages for other cancers and diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and ALS. Across treatments and conditions, only \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29394327/\">14% of drugs in clinical trials\u003c/a> ever reach FDA approval. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Despite the speculative nature of this early-stage research, caregiver Viva Mogi said she will vote for Proposition 38 for the hope it offers. Mogi put her own life and career on hold to care for her mother, who was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s ten years ago. At the time, doctors told them there was no cure and not enough medications to help.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Despite the speculative nature of this early-stage research, caregiver Viva Mogi said she will vote for Proposition 38 for the hope it offers. Mogi put her own life and career on hold to care for her mother, who was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s ten years ago. At the time, doctors told them there was no cure and not enough medications to help.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They wished us luck,” Mogi said. Looking ahead to her own potential diagnosis and decline from the disease, she said, “I don’t ever want to go through this or put my husband through this.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“They wished us luck,” Mogi said. Looking ahead to her own potential diagnosis and decline from the disease, she said, “I don’t ever want to go through this or put my husband through this.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002388\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Viva Mogi, a supporter of Proposition 38, is a full-time caretaker for her mother who has Alzheimer’s. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002388\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Viva Mogi, a supporter of Proposition 38, is a full-time caretaker for her mother who has Alzheimer’s. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But with state taxpayers on the hook for $4 billion in interest payments on top of the $8.4 billion bond, other patients say the debt the state would incur from supporting Proposition 38 is not worth the hope, especially in light of California’s other long-term obligations and deficits.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But with state taxpayers on the hook for $4 billion in interest payments on top of the $8.4 billion bond, other patients say the debt the state would incur from supporting Proposition 38 is not worth the hope, especially in light of California’s other long-term obligations and deficits.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Cancer survivor, Dan Carson is one of several retired financial analysts from the state Legislative Analyst’s Office who broke a long tradition of nonpartisan silence to speak out against the measure.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Carson ran the health section of the LAO when it was tasked with evaluating the $3 billion \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1970180/proposition-14-with-handful-of-cures-calif-stem-cell-agency-has-mixed-record-will-voters-pony-up-another-5-5-billion\">stem cell bond initiative\u003c/a> in 2004 known as Proposition 71. The measure was pitched to voters as a protest against the George W. Bush administration’s abandonment of stem cell research on religious grounds. Its backers said California would become a new hub for stem cell discoveries and promised the state would receive a windfall of royalty payments to pay back the bond and interest. But the money never materialized, with the state receiving just $16 million of the $6 billion it was promised, Carson said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Carson ran the health section of the LAO when it was tasked with evaluating the $3 billion \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1970180/proposition-14-with-handful-of-cures-calif-stem-cell-agency-has-mixed-record-will-voters-pony-up-another-5-5-billion\">stem cell bond initiative\u003c/a> in 2004 known as Proposition 71. The measure was pitched to voters as a protest against the George W. Bush administration’s abandonment of stem cell research on religious grounds. Its backers said California would become a new hub for stem cell discoveries and promised the state would receive a windfall of royalty payments to pay back the bond and interest. But the money never materialized, with the state receiving just $16 million of the $6 billion it was promised, Carson said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Similarly, Proposition 38 backers say it will be cost neutral. Provisions in the measure would require 10% of any licensing fees derived from immunotherapy treatment discoveries be paid back to the state, and that such treatments be made available to Californians at a 20% discount.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Similarly, Proposition 38 backers say it will be cost neutral. Provisions in the measure would require 10% of any licensing fees derived from immunotherapy treatment discoveries be paid back to the state, and that such treatments be made available to Californians at a 20% discount.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that it will ‘pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers,’” Carson said. “I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this measure, that won’t happen. Not even close.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that it will ‘pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers,’” Carson said. “I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this measure, that won’t happen. Not even close.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002387\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Marianne O’Malley, who has Parkinson’s disease, works out on an elliptical trainer in her home in Sacramento on Oct. 19, 2026. Exercise is the leading therapy to slow the progress of the disease.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Fred Greaves for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When O’Malley attended her regular boxing and rock climbing classes for people with Parkinson’s — currently, exercise is the top therapy proven to slow the progression of the disease — other students approached her with questions about Proposition 38 because of her experience at the LAO. Should they vote for it? they asked.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When O’Malley attended her regular boxing and rock climbing classes for people with Parkinson’s — currently, exercise is the top therapy proven to slow the progression of the disease — other students approached her with questions about Proposition 38 because of her experience at the LAO. Should they vote for it? they asked.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We’re all desperate for a cure, or at least a treatment,” O’Malley said. “And the disappointing thing to tell them is, ‘No, this measure doesn’t do what you think it’s going to do.’”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“We’re all desperate for a cure, or at least a treatment,” O’Malley said. “And the disappointing thing to tell them is, ‘No, this measure doesn’t do what you think it’s going to do.’”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The campaign in favor of Proposition 38 is being financed by philanthropist Gary Michelson, who also happens to be a co-founder and chair of the brand new \u003ca href=\"https://www.calimmunology.org/\">California Institute for Immunology & Immunotherapy\u003c/a> at UCLA, which, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2026/07/proposition-38-california/\">according to the ballot measure’s criteria\u003c/a>, stands to receive half the bond money directly, then help oversee the distribution of the other half in research grants to nonprofits. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The campaign in favor of Proposition 38 is being financed by philanthropist Gary Michelson, who also happens to be a co-founder and chair of the brand new \u003ca href=\"https://www.calimmunology.org/\">California Institute for Immunology & Immunotherapy\u003c/a> at UCLA, which, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2026/07/proposition-38-california/\">according to the ballot measure’s criteria\u003c/a>, stands to receive half the bond money directly, then help oversee the distribution of the other half in research grants to nonprofits. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The measure would also exempt this institute from complying with a series of state transparency laws, including public records act requests and open meetings, O’Malley said, meaning taxpayers won’t have a way of knowing if their money is being spent wisely.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The measure would also exempt this institute from complying with a series of state transparency laws, including public records act requests and open meetings, O’Malley said, meaning taxpayers won’t have a way of knowing if their money is being spent wisely.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“This measure hijacks the initiative process to steer public funds to a billionaire’s philanthropic project and then hides its tracks by waiving all the usual laws to promote governmental transparency,” she said. “This one is so bad and supposedly being done to help people like me, I felt a moral obligation to speak out.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>If the state of California wants to be a center of scientific research, there are better ways to do it, said Judy Heiman, another former LAO analyst. Medical research grants should be subject to an open, competitive bidding process; they should be awarded based on scientific merit and public health need, not what’s popular at the ballot box. And they should undergo independent review before more funds are disbursed.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>If the state of California wants to be a center of scientific research, there are better ways to do it, said Judy Heiman, another former LAO analyst. Medical research grants should be subject to an open, competitive bidding process; they should be awarded based on scientific merit and public health need, not what’s popular at the ballot box. And they should undergo independent review before more funds are disbursed.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Prop. 38 fails these basic tests,” Heiman said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In fact, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102760/7-5b-california-science-agency-plan-free-from-trumps-influence-will-go-to-voters\">another bond measure\u003c/a> that includes these parameters and safeguards will be on the ballot in March 2028, she pointed out. This research fund, borne from months of democratic debate and negotiation in the state legislature, is intended for a wider variety of research, including biomedical, behavioral health, and climate.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There’s a legitimate argument about whether California should add billions of dollars in medical research spending to its already substantial debt burden,” Heiman said. “Scientific merit, not institutional favoritism, should drive where the money goes.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Proposition 38 would allow California to borrow $8.4 billion to fund immunotherapy research. But patients are divided over whether it would actually benefit them.",
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"title": "California Cancer Patients Disagree Over Whether Proposition 38 Will Help Them | KQED",
"description": "Proposition 38 would allow California to borrow $8.4 billion to fund immunotherapy research. But patients are divided over whether it would actually benefit them.",
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"headline": "California Cancer Patients Disagree Over Whether Proposition 38 Will Help Them",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cancer patients who say their lives were saved by innovations in immunotherapy treatments are among the most vocal proponents of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102150/prop-38-borrows-8-4-billion-to-fund-immunology-research\">California’s Proposition 38\u003c/a>, arguing the $8.4 billion bond measure to fund immune-system research would save even more lives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But those who oppose Proposition 38 are also patients, who say their illnesses are being exploited to shill for an initiative that is overly narrow, opaque and expensive.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Don’t approve this measure because you want to help me or other people with Parkinson’s,” said Marianne O’Malley, a former analyst with the state’s Legislative Analyst’s Office who was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease about eight years ago. “This is the wrong way to go about things.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Backers of Proposition 38 proposed it as a solution to the Trump administration’s attack on science: where federal research funding has become diminished or uncertain, California would step in, issuing bond money to bring stability to promising projects and turn the state into a hub of excellence for immunology and immunotherapy research. But the patients who stand to benefit from such a move are divided over whether Californians should shoulder that burden instead of taxpayers across the US, and if so, whether Proposition 38 is the right way to do it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“I have never thought of biomedical research as something that needs to be centered in a particular location,” said Robert Kaplan, a senior scholar at \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/cerc.html\">Stanford\u003c/a> who formerly coordinated research portfolios at the National Institutes of Health and an opponent of Proposition 38. “Proposition 38 money is good for California institutions, but it means that California taxpayers might be taking a disproportionate share of the responsibility for paying for that research.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002389\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-02-KQED-4cbd579e-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Laurie Adami, a supporter of Proposition 38, was diagnosed with blood cancer when she was 46. She holds two cancer scans, one before she received immunotherapy treatment (left) and one after (right). (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Blood cancer survivor Laurie Adami is in favor of the measure. She was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma 20 years ago, when she was 46, and her son was in kindergarten. She fought her way through seven different treatments, including grueling rounds of chemotherapy and three experimental trials so she could survive to see him graduate from high school. In 2018, she enrolled in an immunotherapy trial where scientists reengineered Adami’s own immune cells to attack her disease.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Chemotherapy is like napalm — they poison your whole body in the hopes of killing off your cancer,” she said. “This idea of waking up the immune system is a much more elegant way to target cancers.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The therapy she received was called CAR-T. Scientists extracted a sample of Adami’s T-cells and modified them in the lab so they would attach to the specific proteins on her cancer cells. Put another way, T-cells are like the Pac Mans of the immune system, and scientists altered them so they would be hungry specifically for her type of cancer cells, then infused them back into her bloodstream to start eating. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Adami received one CAR-T infusion and has been in complete remission ever since.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my life?” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Adami is just one patient from one clinical trial. Though immunotherapy has improved \u003ca href=\"https://www.cancerresearch.org/blog/cancer-statistics-2026\">survival rates\u003c/a> for certain cancers, including lung, liver, and some types of skin and blood cancers, the treatment does not work for most people: only \u003ca href=\"https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/inhealth/about-us/immunotherapy-precision-medicine-action-policy-brief\">15 to 20% of patients\u003c/a> achieve durable results. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Immunotherapy research is still in the early and experimental stages for other cancers and diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and ALS. Across treatments and conditions, only \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29394327/\">14% of drugs in clinical trials\u003c/a> ever reach FDA approval. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Despite the speculative nature of this early-stage research, caregiver Viva Mogi said she will vote for Proposition 38 for the hope it offers. Mogi put her own life and career on hold to care for her mother, who was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s ten years ago. At the time, doctors told them there was no cure and not enough medications to help.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They wished us luck,” Mogi said. Looking ahead to her own potential diagnosis and decline from the disease, she said, “I don’t ever want to go through this or put my husband through this.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002388\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/261020-PROP-38-01-KQED-27ec75c4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Viva Mogi, a supporter of Proposition 38, is a full-time caretaker for her mother who has Alzheimer’s. (Courtesy of Trenna Travis)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But with state taxpayers on the hook for $4 billion in interest payments on top of the $8.4 billion bond, other patients say the debt the state would incur from supporting Proposition 38 is not worth the hope, especially in light of California’s other long-term obligations and deficits.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cancer survivor, Dan Carson is one of several retired financial analysts from the state Legislative Analyst’s Office who broke a long tradition of nonpartisan silence to speak out against the measure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Carson ran the health section of the LAO when it was tasked with evaluating the $3 billion \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1970180/proposition-14-with-handful-of-cures-calif-stem-cell-agency-has-mixed-record-will-voters-pony-up-another-5-5-billion\">stem cell bond initiative\u003c/a> in 2004 known as Proposition 71. The measure was pitched to voters as a protest against the George W. Bush administration’s abandonment of stem cell research on religious grounds. Its backers said California would become a new hub for stem cell discoveries and promised the state would receive a windfall of royalty payments to pay back the bond and interest. But the money never materialized, with the state receiving just $16 million of the $6 billion it was promised, Carson said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Similarly, Proposition 38 backers say it will be cost neutral. Provisions in the measure would require 10% of any licensing fees derived from immunotherapy treatment discoveries be paid back to the state, and that such treatments be made available to Californians at a 20% discount.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that it will ‘pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers,’” Carson said. “I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this measure, that won’t happen. Not even close.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002387\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG52488-KQED-2813b0e4-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Marianne O’Malley, who has Parkinson’s disease, works out on an elliptical trainer in her home in Sacramento on Oct. 19, 2026. Exercise is the leading therapy to slow the progress of the disease. (Fred Greaves for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When O’Malley attended her regular boxing and rock climbing classes for people with Parkinson’s — currently, exercise is the top therapy proven to slow the progression of the disease — other students approached her with questions about Proposition 38 because of her experience at the LAO. Should they vote for it? they asked.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’re all desperate for a cure, or at least a treatment,” O’Malley said. “And the disappointing thing to tell them is, ‘No, this measure doesn’t do what you think it’s going to do.’”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The campaign in favor of Proposition 38 is being financed by philanthropist Gary Michelson, who also happens to be a co-founder and chair of the brand new \u003ca href=\"https://www.calimmunology.org/\">California Institute for Immunology & Immunotherapy\u003c/a> at UCLA, which, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2026/07/proposition-38-california/\">according to the ballot measure’s criteria\u003c/a>, stands to receive half the bond money directly, then help oversee the distribution of the other half in research grants to nonprofits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The measure would also exempt this institute from complying with a series of state transparency laws, including public records act requests and open meetings, O’Malley said, meaning taxpayers won’t have a way of knowing if their money is being spent wisely.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2002386\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/10/FG_OMALLEY_PARKINSONS_2026_10_19__FG32776-KQED-1addb385-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Marianne O’Malley, who has Parkinson’s disease, rests in her backyard after exercising on an elliptical trainer at her home in Sacramento on Oct. 19, 2026. Exercise is the leading therapy to slow the progress of the disease. (Fred Greaves for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“This measure hijacks the initiative process to steer public funds to a billionaire’s philanthropic project and then hides its tracks by waiving all the usual laws to promote governmental transparency,” she said. “This one is so bad and supposedly being done to help people like me, I felt a moral obligation to speak out.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If the state of California wants to be a center of scientific research, there are better ways to do it, said Judy Heiman, another former LAO analyst. Medical research grants should be subject to an open, competitive bidding process; they should be awarded based on scientific merit and public health need, not what’s popular at the ballot box. And they should undergo independent review before more funds are disbursed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Prop. 38 fails these basic tests,” Heiman said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In fact, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102760/7-5b-california-science-agency-plan-free-from-trumps-influence-will-go-to-voters\">another bond measure\u003c/a> that includes these parameters and safeguards will be on the ballot in March 2028, she pointed out. This research fund, borne from months of democratic debate and negotiation in the state legislature, is intended for a wider variety of research, including biomedical, behavioral health, and climate.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s a legitimate argument about whether California should add billions of dollars in medical research spending to its already substantial debt burden,” Heiman said. “Scientific merit, not institutional favoritism, should drive where the money goes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "One Key To California's Climate Goals? How We Cook",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>The vast majority of commercial kitchens in California — some 85% — rely on gas to power their appliances. But scientists say that will have to change if the state hopes to reach its goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Bay Area food franchise Flour + Water is one of many local shops leading the charge away from gas appliances. In today’s episode, KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman visits an electric pizza kitchen to help us understand the benefits of electrification and what’s preventing more kitchens from making the switch. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/2002089/heres-what-all-electric-bay-area-restaurants-have-learned-from-ditching-gas\">Here’s What All-Electric Bay Area Restaurants Have Learned From Ditching Gas\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:27] \u003c/em>I guess aside from the broader ecological benefits of going electric, what do experts say about the other benefits for restaurants going electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:27] \u003c/em>I guess aside from the broader ecological benefits of going electric, what do experts say about the other benefits for restaurants going electric? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>The vast majority of commercial kitchens in California — some 85% — rely on gas to power their appliances. But scientists say that will have to change if the state hopes to reach its goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Bay Area food franchise Flour + Water is one of many local shops leading the charge away from gas appliances. In today’s episode, KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman visits an electric pizza kitchen to help us understand the benefits of electrification and what’s preventing more kitchens from making the switch. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/2002089/heres-what-all-electric-bay-area-restaurants-have-learned-from-ditching-gas\">Here’s What All-Electric Bay Area Restaurants Have Learned From Ditching Gas\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:27] \u003c/em>I guess aside from the broader ecological benefits of going electric, what do experts say about the other benefits for restaurants going electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Inside Love\u003c/a>, our series explores what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>We say it without thinking: I love that song, I love this city, I love you. But when researchers try to pin love down, they find a panoply of meanings. Love is a biological drive, a psychological attachment, a practice expressed through countless small choices and a cultural story. UC Berkeley psychology professor Dacher Keltner argues that love serves an even more fundamental purpose: It helps keep human beings alive. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming an almost reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone,” Dacher says. “Strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy.” We talk to Keltner about what we mean when we talk about love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Learn more about Dacher Keltner and his work \u003ca href=\"https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/dacher-keltner\">here\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-happiness/id1340505607\">here\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>Dacher Keltner, professor of psychology and founding faculty director of the Greater Good Science Center, UC Berkeley\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think it’s tough to define love. As a researcher, do you have a definition for it? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>What I would say is that it’s a brief feeling that we have about things or people that we feel devoted to, that we want to sacrifice to, and that we feel uniquely connected to. Science is making progress in understanding the love we feel for romantic partners, sexual partners, friends, family members, strangers, and nature. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And is it a different kind of love that we’re feeling? Is something different lighting up if, say, it’s a tree or a whale or our lover or our husband?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We only have a partial answer to that question, Lesley. We don’t know, and it’s a great question, does our love of non-human forms, other forms of life, resemble the feelings of love we have towards a child or a partner or a parent or sibling? And we just don’t know. We do know, and it’s interesting, there’s a great study from Japan showing, focused on oxytocin, which is this neuropeptide that connects us to people. And when people bring their dogs into the lab, and they look at their dog in the eyes, they show a burst of oxytocin, so does the dog. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> That makes me feel so much better that if I’m looking at my dog, he’s looking at me back. Because I don’t know if you’ve seen there’s a New Yorker cartoon that’s so funny, where the person is looking at their dog, and they’re saying, “Oh my God, you’re my best friend.” And in the cartoon, the dog is looking back, going, “Where is my next hot dog? What’s happening here?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>It’s a very cynical view of– no, there are 87 million dogs in the United States or something like that. Truly, we co-evolve with dogs for 10-15,000 years to form these very important bonds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And when I look at my dog, I definitely feel that big, like, swirl of oxytocin when he looks back at me. Is it an emotion that I’m feeling? Is it a feeling that you’re doing an action? What exactly is love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you say, “I love my brother,” or “I love my romantic partner,” part of it is a feeling state, probably 15 seconds, half a minute. And we’ve studied those in my lab at Berkeley, just looking at behaviors associated with that state, physiology. It’s also what philosophers call a sentiment, right? Which is a more enduring feeling you have towards something that you love. I love, you know, the San Francisco 49ers, or I love my garden, right? And that’s gonna be more enduring over time. And then there are trait-like characteristics where there are just some people who love more things in the world. And when they say that they love things, it’s just part of who they are as an identity over time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And why, evolutionarily, are we wired to love? How did it serve us originally, and potentially, how has that wiring changed over time? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Here’s where evolutionary scholarship is really useful, which is we are a hyper-social species. To survive, we had to find food together, take care of offspring together, fend off predators, stay warm together when the ice age hit 10-12,000 years ago, et cetera. We’re a very social species. And what our sociality required is that we give up self-interest. We sacrifice. You have to sacrifice for romantic partners, right? You forgo other opportunities. You have to sacrifice for friends. And the thinking is that love evolved as an emotion to make it really easy to sacrifice for people, to give up self-interest, right? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> To survive. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> To survive, you know. So when we fall in love with our little baby, who’s a few months old, you know, they’re vomiting on our clothes and pooping and waking us up at night and disrupting our sex life, and they cost a lot of money But the love of that being short-circuits all those concerns, and we are devoted to the being out of love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> And I imagine, for mating and for reproduction, right? I mean, we are falling in love so that we make more of ourselves. Is that a different kind of love than the love that you’re saying, a parental love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Our audience should really go back to John Bowlby, a very influential thinker about attachment. Bowlby said there are kind of three basic systems that help us reproduce our genes, if you will, in the evolutionary terminology. One is sexual desire, which gets us to reproduce. And there’s work on that showing it’s really distinct from feeling devoted love or long-term love. And then we have a caregiving love, which is toward vulnerable, most typically young children, the elderly, et cetera. Any kind of vulnerability triggers a sense of care. And those three emotions together, you know, the feelings of desire and love, and then filial love or loving of children, really ensure that our offspring make it to the age of viability; they survive; we take care of them, which is the critical task in evolution. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If our childhood is particularly rough and maybe not a very loving environment and love is really scary for us, can we get better at loving? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Of the most sophisticated literature on this, one [about] is trauma. We know extreme trauma in a family is very hard on relationships and trust, rightfully so. Right? And so you got to work hard to transcend that. And we do know from the trauma literature, which is the extreme version of your question, a lot of people recover. They are resilient. They find new friends. There’s a whole new literature on significant childhood attachments, early positive experiences that shows, even if you’re in a household that has a lot of anger and aggression, violence, not much love, other adults out there can give you the love you need, right? A coach or a teacher or a minister, et cetera. And then we also learn from the attachment literature that even if you grew up in a tough home with respect to feeling safe and secure, which is key in attachment, a lot of people change, right? And they form friendships in adolescence; they learn new things with a romantic partner; they have a spiritual love; they have community. So we are resilient when it comes to love and finding new ways. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think it says about humans as a species that we can have such a range of different kinds of love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> It’s interesting often when you ask people at the end of life, “What’s it all about?” You know, and people will often say, like, “It really is about love.” And I think that one of the really striking qualities of who we are is we sacrifice, and we devote ourselves to things, to children and to friends and to partners and to ideas and political groups and the environment, et cetera. And that really is how we survived is to be a devoted species. And love is the engine of that, right? The friendship literature, which I think is a very underappreciated form of love. And, you know, friends give us life expectancy; they help our nervous systems; they bring us meaning; they help us navigate social reality. And really the engine of that is love, to find a lot of people to love. So, you know, what does it say about our species? It says, very underappreciated, that love is vital to survival because it helps us in so many realms. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Anything else you want to add, you just listed a bunch of stuff about health, but anything else you wanna add, just kind of make the case for bringing more love in your life in terms of what we know it does for our mind and for our physical body? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming a almost a reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone, it is good for life expectancy, strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Ten years? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Ten years. It’s one of the most important findings in the social sciences, is if I move through my day and I see a stranger in the street and I feel trust and affection and I call my best friend and I call me parents and children, I have ten years of additional life. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If you have that web of support around you. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>That’s right. The literature on, you know, loving nature, biophilia, is almost as robust, which is, if I have a regular, reverential, loving relationship to the flora and fauna around me and the rivers and the oceans and the sky and the light, I do better in terms of disease. I have a stronger heart. If I get cancer, it progresses less fast. I have better concentration at my work. You could go on, right? So it is this vital vitamin, if you will, that we gotta be taking regularly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And that we, especially in our fast-moving culture, do not prioritize. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Oh, man. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It almost comes last often on the list, unfortunately. I mean, hopefully not, but I think many people’s lives feel like they’re moving so quickly that walking outside and feeling what you’re talking about, like the awe or feeling the awe and the love for nature or taking that moment to put their hand on their partner’s back, that kind of thing. Those are the moments that matter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I think we’re in a crisis right now. When you look at all kinds of data in the United States, we don’t love ourselves, young people are too hard on themselves, we don’t– we’re struggling in intimate relationships, young people are not marrying like they did 40 years ago, we struggle in our relationship to nature, we don’t love people who have different political views than our own, right? We are the most polarized country on the face of the earth that’s been studied, right? Other cultures, even though they have different political views, will have that fundamental sense of we’re all humans and we’ve lost that in the United States. And so, yeah, I think that we have to be thinking right now, in this moment, of how do we build it back in? One of my favorite literatures on this is just practicing micro social interactions that build trust and love. Make eye contact with people, say hi, compliment them, you know, have greeting rituals and gestures with those people. Those all build trust out in the world that gives you that web you talked about that is good for us. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If we lose someone that we really care about, what do we know about the process of grief? What does that tell us about love?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Grief is at the loss of a partner, a parent, or a child, or a dear friend. I think people are grieving right now the loss of species out in our ecosystems. For a lot of people, 50 to 60%, probably, rough estimate, it’s profoundly disorienting, right? It is– Your whole way of looking at reality is shaken, your way of moving through the day, your rhythms, how you sleep. It’s almost like psychosis, like you don’t know how to make sense of reality, and that’s what we have to reconstruct. And then what we also know is people grow out of grief, right? That you start to realize, like, when I lost my brother, Rolf, I was like, God, he’s irreplaceable. I had one brother, you know, and he was the best brother. And I started to learn, like, not only philosophical lessons about what he gave me and what life is, but also how I have to rebuild the sense of love he gave me, right? So grief is one of the great tasks of life. It’s almost inevitable for everybody. We need better wisdom about how to grow out of it and find wisdom. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The impetus for this show actually came, I was hosting for him, and we did an episode on a writer from the L.A. Times was asking, he was so heartbroken over a lost love that he could not function, and he had read all of the self-help books, trying to get himself back on track, and he just couldn’t, he couldn’t function. And so he found that studying the neuroscience of grief actually helped him make sense of why he was so lost. And so my question to you is, is it helpful, the impetus like I said of the show to kind of look at love and relationship, sex and dating through a scientific lens, what does science give us in terms of understanding something that in so many ways is kind of unknowable? It’s something that we feel that’s maybe captured better in mythology or poetry. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>I think it’s really important to study it. I’ll give you a couple of examples. I mean, one, we’ve learned a lot about the incredible neurophysiology of love, you know, of oxytocin and vagal tone. And my lab studies the vocalizations and facial displays of love that trace back in our mammalian evolution, which tells us it’s mammalian to love. It’s one of the things that defines mammals, is they care, right? You know, there are a couple of examples that are really interesting to me that tell us something important. Anybody who’s around a baby has surges of oxytocin, right? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I know that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>You can be– it’s the mom, which was the first discovery. Oh yeah, it’s the dad. It’s gay couples, right. It is people who are just around the baby. And that tells us that this is not just mom, but anybody around the baby is gonna shift to this feeling of devotion. And that’s important. And then, you know, I’ve been fascinated by our love of nature, which, you know in the indigenous traditions that really are around the world and thousands of years old that predate, you know, all of the traditions we know about — the Abrahamic traditions, East Asian thought, et cetera – they uniformly talk about a loving relationship with trees, which Walt Whitman loved, and you know rivers and birds and so forth. Now, there’s a hypothesis, oh, we can love the many kinds of species out in our ecosystems. And along comes science and shows, well, when you listen to water, which we find such joy in, your vagus nerve is activated. When we hear bird song, which is a form of music almost, we feel hopeful and strong. When you smell fragrances like cedar or rosemary and the olfactory system processes it, you think about what’s beautiful in your childhood, right? And your brain is registering that. So that tells us, in this particular case, the science is useful in that it says, yeah, you know, poets have a lot to say about how we love nature, Wordsworth, et cetera. But, this is wired into ourselves. And it’s important because very concretely, certain parts of our world won’t take fiction or poetry or film portrayals of things seriously, but they do listen to science. Like, you know, our medical establishment. So our former Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, took stock of the power of friendships and said, we have a loneliness epidemic and it’s a health crisis. So we need all the wisdom on these emotions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Has studying it for you helped you love more, or are there times when you’re in the lab going, “This is deadening it for me”? What’s in your own experience? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, my own experience has just provided a lens into how deep love is. I studied in a period of my career, 15 years ago, the nonverbal displays of love and desire, how it affects oxytocin and the vagus nerve, how couples express love through appreciation and reverence. And it kind of sharpened my eye to things. And I started to realize, for example, when I raised children. Two daughters who live in the Bay Area, Natalie and Sarafina, there’s a ton of love that is built up in communities around children, right? And that’s evolutionarily important. We call them alloparents, and we feel that for children around us. And that was really interesting that I wouldn’t have learned that without this scientific lens. The other thing that really has oriented me to, and I don’t talk enough about this, is love of humanity. In a lot of spiritual traditions, it’s fundamental just like agape in the Christian tradition, like love everyone without social distinction. And hearing about the studies of how we can form strong ties with everybody around us with eye contact and, you know, compliments and respect, it awakened me to how much we do that on a daily basis and we can benefit from it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you think that love is just humanly universal, the way that we experience it, or is it culturally impacted, or does culture play a big role on how we experience and how we love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, both are true. You know, you go to most cultures and they will show forms of love that would be very familiar to you, even if they’re a radically different culture. That they’re holding babies who are crying and they’re flirting, teens are flirting and discovering romantic attraction, and older partners are, you know, showing this, this long term form of love. It’s part of our species, right? And then at the same time, it’s radically varying. You know, it is– the degree to which you rely on romantic partners varies from one culture to another. We know how we express our love in the day-to-day really differs. In Norway, 30 to 40% of people live alone, even though they may be married, right? So they prefer kind of a solitary arrangement or solitude. In some cultures, jealousy, which protects love in some ways, is much more accentuated. There’s some deeply human universality to things like love, and then it varies dramatically. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do we have any idea whether or not people in Norway or say people in India who all pack into one place, I don’t know what the question would be, but you know, are loving more or feeling more love or feeling happier or getting the benefits of love? Do we know whether that isolation or sort of group experience? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We don’t know. It’s just very preliminary in terms of thinking about not only how do cultures vary. So we know, for example, in the United States compared to other cultures, we fall in love faster, you know. And in some studies, I think it’s Russia and Japan, it takes them longer to say, “I’m committed to you.” So that’s interesting. Why do we fall in love faster? Maybe it’s the pace of our lives or how hard we work, et cetera. But we haven’t made progress yet in understanding why. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think about the fact that we’re falling in love with robots? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>On the one hand, it’s not very surprising because early studies of love, if you just did, “What do you love?” And literally people list 50 things, and “I love my pen and my watch.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> “My computer.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> “My computer,” and of course, you know, so we’re very good at loving inanimate things in the sense of using the word love loosely. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is that the accurate use? Like if I say I love my computer, can I actually feel love for my computer? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well When you look at your computer at the screen, do you get an oxytocin surge? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Probably not. So yeah, that would be an interesting test. I am profoundly worried about digital relationships. I think that the broad evidence, this is different kinds of studies and across different cultures, large samples, finds digital connection makes you feel more isolated and lonely and has certain worries about does it have the friction and the dynamics of a real relationship. We’re probably going to encounter data that show, much as we’ve learned about being on Instagram and Meta, that it’s not healthy for your overall social connection to the world. And, you know, I’d put it really frankly to audience members like, if your child came to you and she’s 16 or he’s 16 or they’re 16 and said, “I think I’ve fallen in love,” you know, “And it’s this agent on my computer,” you’d probably protest. And so I think that tells us something. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I really hope my daughter does not come to me at 16. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>How old is your daughter? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Seven. I’m hoping we figure it out before she turns 16. That’s deeply, deeply my hope. It’s probably ignorance, but I do not want her coming to me and being like “Claude and me are just, you know, getting up in there.” In this moment where there’s like so much anxiety and depression, unfortunately, and mental health issues, self-love, what do we know about self-love and how do we love ourselves better? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I almost tear up at the question because something has happened to this young generation compared to what I was like when I was 20. You know, they are smarter and working hard and more pressured and worried about the environment and worried about AI. I mean, they’re taking on a lot on their shoulders and facing a very tricky economy. And despite all of these strengths that they have, they’re harder on themselves, more critical, and in extreme cases, more self-loathing as you see in them and hate. And the best literature on that is self-compassion, you know. And the idea there is you take this fundamental form of love, of compassion, just feeling a devotion to somebody else’s wellbeing, and then you orient it to yourself, you know. And you do it through, sort of, practices of, sort of, reminding yourself of good things. You do it by remembering what your friends say about you that’s supportive, or you even put your hand on your chest and sort of calm down, all shown in science to kind of reduce stress and anxiety. And you know, we need to– when you mix together the pressure and anxiety of youth, and they’re turning away from dating and long-term commitments. Marriage rates have dropped 10%. It’s remarkable, right? And then they are distrusting of long-term relationships often. We’ve got a crisis coming, right, that we’ve got to attend to and love is a good way to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What I’m hearing from you is it doesn’t have to be like, you need to find your person or the ultimate tomorrow. It’s like literally, like you said, putting a hand over your heart, like, “How can I be a friend to myself today?” Looking at people in the eye, maybe not being so buried in our phones. Anything else you’d wanna add to the audience in terms of how tomorrow we might live in a world that has more love in it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Two things, you know, that really are particularly relevant to younger people as well, but everybody: remember how powerful friendships are. It’s interesting, you know, let’s say I’ve taught happiness for 30 years at Berkeley, the science, and we study tables and data, and early in the happiness literature when they asked what makes you happy, most typically it’s being with other people, right? Which is– people would be like, “That makes sense,” even though we spend inordinate amounts of time alone, you know. But then it was interesting like time and time again, studies would find friends are just, they’re this pure form of happiness in some sense, and joy. And so there’s now a rich literature on like, building friends into your life and also making friends in the broader network of people around you, which we’ve talked about these micro interactions of civility, which we lost. And then the other one is, I would challenge our audience to think about the feelings you have about nature, right? Sunsets or dark skies. I was just in Sequoia National Park as part of the dark sky celebration, stars, right. Running water, rain, your garden, flowers, et cetera, trees. We have a long and deep evolutionary history of really loving and feeling loved by nature, and to pause and remember that and to go seek it out. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Dacher, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome, Lesley. It’s been a really wonderful conversation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Dacher Keltner is a Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley and heads the Greater Good Science Center at the University. Inside Love is a new production of KQED and we’d love to hear your thoughts. Our email is insidelove@kqed.org. Our engineer is Christopher Beal, our video engineer is Jim McKee and our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>We say it without thinking: I love that song, I love this city, I love you. But when researchers try to pin love down, they find a panoply of meanings. Love is a biological drive, a psychological attachment, a practice expressed through countless small choices and a cultural story. UC Berkeley psychology professor Dacher Keltner argues that love serves an even more fundamental purpose: It helps keep human beings alive. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>We say it without thinking: I love that song, I love this city, I love you. But when researchers try to pin love down, they find a panoply of meanings. Love is a biological drive, a psychological attachment, a practice expressed through countless small choices and a cultural story. UC Berkeley psychology professor Dacher Keltner argues that love serves an even more fundamental purpose: It helps keep human beings alive. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming an almost reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone,” Dacher says. “Strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy.” We talk to Keltner about what we mean when we talk about love. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming an almost reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone,” Dacher says. “Strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy.” We talk to Keltner about what we mean when we talk about love. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Learn more about Dacher Keltner and his work \u003ca href=\"https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/dacher-keltner\">here\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-happiness/id1340505607\">here\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Learn more about Dacher Keltner and his work \u003ca href=\"https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/dacher-keltner\">here\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-happiness/id1340505607\">here\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think it’s tough to define love. As a researcher, do you have a definition for it? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>What I would say is that it’s a brief feeling that we have about things or people that we feel devoted to, that we want to sacrifice to, and that we feel uniquely connected to. Science is making progress in understanding the love we feel for romantic partners, sexual partners, friends, family members, strangers, and nature. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>What I would say is that it’s a brief feeling that we have about things or people that we feel devoted to, that we want to sacrifice to, and that we feel uniquely connected to. Science is making progress in understanding the love we feel for romantic partners, sexual partners, friends, family members, strangers, and nature. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And is it a different kind of love that we’re feeling? Is something different lighting up if, say, it’s a tree or a whale or our lover or our husband?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And is it a different kind of love that we’re feeling? Is something different lighting up if, say, it’s a tree or a whale or our lover or our husband?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We only have a partial answer to that question, Lesley. We don’t know, and it’s a great question, does our love of non-human forms, other forms of life, resemble the feelings of love we have towards a child or a partner or a parent or sibling? And we just don’t know. We do know, and it’s interesting, there’s a great study from Japan showing, focused on oxytocin, which is this neuropeptide that connects us to people. And when people bring their dogs into the lab, and they look at their dog in the eyes, they show a burst of oxytocin, so does the dog. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We only have a partial answer to that question, Lesley. We don’t know, and it’s a great question, does our love of non-human forms, other forms of life, resemble the feelings of love we have towards a child or a partner or a parent or sibling? And we just don’t know. We do know, and it’s interesting, there’s a great study from Japan showing, focused on oxytocin, which is this neuropeptide that connects us to people. And when people bring their dogs into the lab, and they look at their dog in the eyes, they show a burst of oxytocin, so does the dog. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> That makes me feel so much better that if I’m looking at my dog, he’s looking at me back. Because I don’t know if you’ve seen there’s a New Yorker cartoon that’s so funny, where the person is looking at their dog, and they’re saying, “Oh my God, you’re my best friend.” And in the cartoon, the dog is looking back, going, “Where is my next hot dog? What’s happening here?”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> That makes me feel so much better that if I’m looking at my dog, he’s looking at me back. Because I don’t know if you’ve seen there’s a New Yorker cartoon that’s so funny, where the person is looking at their dog, and they’re saying, “Oh my God, you’re my best friend.” And in the cartoon, the dog is looking back, going, “Where is my next hot dog? What’s happening here?”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>It’s a very cynical view of– no, there are 87 million dogs in the United States or something like that. Truly, we co-evolve with dogs for 10-15,000 years to form these very important bonds. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And when I look at my dog, I definitely feel that big, like, swirl of oxytocin when he looks back at me. Is it an emotion that I’m feeling? Is it a feeling that you’re doing an action? What exactly is love? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you say, “I love my brother,” or “I love my romantic partner,” part of it is a feeling state, probably 15 seconds, half a minute. And we’ve studied those in my lab at Berkeley, just looking at behaviors associated with that state, physiology. It’s also what philosophers call a sentiment, right? Which is a more enduring feeling you have towards something that you love. I love, you know, the San Francisco 49ers, or I love my garden, right? And that’s gonna be more enduring over time. And then there are trait-like characteristics where there are just some people who love more things in the world. And when they say that they love things, it’s just part of who they are as an identity over time.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you say, “I love my brother,” or “I love my romantic partner,” part of it is a feeling state, probably 15 seconds, half a minute. And we’ve studied those in my lab at Berkeley, just looking at behaviors associated with that state, physiology. It’s also what philosophers call a sentiment, right? Which is a more enduring feeling you have towards something that you love. I love, you know, the San Francisco 49ers, or I love my garden, right? And that’s gonna be more enduring over time. And then there are trait-like characteristics where there are just some people who love more things in the world. And when they say that they love things, it’s just part of who they are as an identity over time.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And why, evolutionarily, are we wired to love? How did it serve us originally, and potentially, how has that wiring changed over time? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And why, evolutionarily, are we wired to love? How did it serve us originally, and potentially, how has that wiring changed over time? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Here’s where evolutionary scholarship is really useful, which is we are a hyper-social species. To survive, we had to find food together, take care of offspring together, fend off predators, stay warm together when the ice age hit 10-12,000 years ago, et cetera. We’re a very social species. And what our sociality required is that we give up self-interest. We sacrifice. You have to sacrifice for romantic partners, right? You forgo other opportunities. You have to sacrifice for friends. And the thinking is that love evolved as an emotion to make it really easy to sacrifice for people, to give up self-interest, right? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Here’s where evolutionary scholarship is really useful, which is we are a hyper-social species. To survive, we had to find food together, take care of offspring together, fend off predators, stay warm together when the ice age hit 10-12,000 years ago, et cetera. We’re a very social species. And what our sociality required is that we give up self-interest. We sacrifice. You have to sacrifice for romantic partners, right? You forgo other opportunities. You have to sacrifice for friends. And the thinking is that love evolved as an emotion to make it really easy to sacrifice for people, to give up self-interest, right? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> To survive, you know. So when we fall in love with our little baby, who’s a few months old, you know, they’re vomiting on our clothes and pooping and waking us up at night and disrupting our sex life, and they cost a lot of money But the love of that being short-circuits all those concerns, and we are devoted to the being out of love. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> To survive, you know. So when we fall in love with our little baby, who’s a few months old, you know, they’re vomiting on our clothes and pooping and waking us up at night and disrupting our sex life, and they cost a lot of money But the love of that being short-circuits all those concerns, and we are devoted to the being out of love. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> And I imagine, for mating and for reproduction, right? I mean, we are falling in love so that we make more of ourselves. Is that a different kind of love than the love that you’re saying, a parental love? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> And I imagine, for mating and for reproduction, right? I mean, we are falling in love so that we make more of ourselves. Is that a different kind of love than the love that you’re saying, a parental love? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Our audience should really go back to John Bowlby, a very influential thinker about attachment. Bowlby said there are kind of three basic systems that help us reproduce our genes, if you will, in the evolutionary terminology. One is sexual desire, which gets us to reproduce. And there’s work on that showing it’s really distinct from feeling devoted love or long-term love. And then we have a caregiving love, which is toward vulnerable, most typically young children, the elderly, et cetera. Any kind of vulnerability triggers a sense of care. And those three emotions together, you know, the feelings of desire and love, and then filial love or loving of children, really ensure that our offspring make it to the age of viability; they survive; we take care of them, which is the critical task in evolution. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Our audience should really go back to John Bowlby, a very influential thinker about attachment. Bowlby said there are kind of three basic systems that help us reproduce our genes, if you will, in the evolutionary terminology. One is sexual desire, which gets us to reproduce. And there’s work on that showing it’s really distinct from feeling devoted love or long-term love. And then we have a caregiving love, which is toward vulnerable, most typically young children, the elderly, et cetera. Any kind of vulnerability triggers a sense of care. And those three emotions together, you know, the feelings of desire and love, and then filial love or loving of children, really ensure that our offspring make it to the age of viability; they survive; we take care of them, which is the critical task in evolution. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If our childhood is particularly rough and maybe not a very loving environment and love is really scary for us, can we get better at loving? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If our childhood is particularly rough and maybe not a very loving environment and love is really scary for us, can we get better at loving? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Of the most sophisticated literature on this, one [about] is trauma. We know extreme trauma in a family is very hard on relationships and trust, rightfully so. Right? And so you got to work hard to transcend that. And we do know from the trauma literature, which is the extreme version of your question, a lot of people recover. They are resilient. They find new friends. There’s a whole new literature on significant childhood attachments, early positive experiences that shows, even if you’re in a household that has a lot of anger and aggression, violence, not much love, other adults out there can give you the love you need, right? A coach or a teacher or a minister, et cetera. And then we also learn from the attachment literature that even if you grew up in a tough home with respect to feeling safe and secure, which is key in attachment, a lot of people change, right? And they form friendships in adolescence; they learn new things with a romantic partner; they have a spiritual love; they have community. So we are resilient when it comes to love and finding new ways. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Of the most sophisticated literature on this, one [about] is trauma. We know extreme trauma in a family is very hard on relationships and trust, rightfully so. Right? And so you got to work hard to transcend that. And we do know from the trauma literature, which is the extreme version of your question, a lot of people recover. They are resilient. They find new friends. There’s a whole new literature on significant childhood attachments, early positive experiences that shows, even if you’re in a household that has a lot of anger and aggression, violence, not much love, other adults out there can give you the love you need, right? A coach or a teacher or a minister, et cetera. And then we also learn from the attachment literature that even if you grew up in a tough home with respect to feeling safe and secure, which is key in attachment, a lot of people change, right? And they form friendships in adolescence; they learn new things with a romantic partner; they have a spiritual love; they have community. So we are resilient when it comes to love and finding new ways. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think it says about humans as a species that we can have such a range of different kinds of love? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> It’s interesting often when you ask people at the end of life, “What’s it all about?” You know, and people will often say, like, “It really is about love.” And I think that one of the really striking qualities of who we are is we sacrifice, and we devote ourselves to things, to children and to friends and to partners and to ideas and political groups and the environment, et cetera. And that really is how we survived is to be a devoted species. And love is the engine of that, right? The friendship literature, which I think is a very underappreciated form of love. And, you know, friends give us life expectancy; they help our nervous systems; they bring us meaning; they help us navigate social reality. And really the engine of that is love, to find a lot of people to love. So, you know, what does it say about our species? It says, very underappreciated, that love is vital to survival because it helps us in so many realms. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> It’s interesting often when you ask people at the end of life, “What’s it all about?” You know, and people will often say, like, “It really is about love.” And I think that one of the really striking qualities of who we are is we sacrifice, and we devote ourselves to things, to children and to friends and to partners and to ideas and political groups and the environment, et cetera. And that really is how we survived is to be a devoted species. And love is the engine of that, right? The friendship literature, which I think is a very underappreciated form of love. And, you know, friends give us life expectancy; they help our nervous systems; they bring us meaning; they help us navigate social reality. And really the engine of that is love, to find a lot of people to love. So, you know, what does it say about our species? It says, very underappreciated, that love is vital to survival because it helps us in so many realms. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Anything else you want to add, you just listed a bunch of stuff about health, but anything else you wanna add, just kind of make the case for bringing more love in your life in terms of what we know it does for our mind and for our physical body? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming a almost a reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone, it is good for life expectancy, strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming a almost a reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone, it is good for life expectancy, strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Ten years? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Ten years. It’s one of the most important findings in the social sciences, is if I move through my day and I see a stranger in the street and I feel trust and affection and I call my best friend and I call me parents and children, I have ten years of additional life. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Ten years. It’s one of the most important findings in the social sciences, is if I move through my day and I see a stranger in the street and I feel trust and affection and I call my best friend and I call me parents and children, I have ten years of additional life. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If you have that web of support around you. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>That’s right. The literature on, you know, loving nature, biophilia, is almost as robust, which is, if I have a regular, reverential, loving relationship to the flora and fauna around me and the rivers and the oceans and the sky and the light, I do better in terms of disease. I have a stronger heart. If I get cancer, it progresses less fast. I have better concentration at my work. You could go on, right? So it is this vital vitamin, if you will, that we gotta be taking regularly. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>That’s right. The literature on, you know, loving nature, biophilia, is almost as robust, which is, if I have a regular, reverential, loving relationship to the flora and fauna around me and the rivers and the oceans and the sky and the light, I do better in terms of disease. I have a stronger heart. If I get cancer, it progresses less fast. I have better concentration at my work. You could go on, right? So it is this vital vitamin, if you will, that we gotta be taking regularly. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And that we, especially in our fast-moving culture, do not prioritize. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And that we, especially in our fast-moving culture, do not prioritize. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Oh, man. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It almost comes last often on the list, unfortunately. I mean, hopefully not, but I think many people’s lives feel like they’re moving so quickly that walking outside and feeling what you’re talking about, like the awe or feeling the awe and the love for nature or taking that moment to put their hand on their partner’s back, that kind of thing. Those are the moments that matter. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It almost comes last often on the list, unfortunately. I mean, hopefully not, but I think many people’s lives feel like they’re moving so quickly that walking outside and feeling what you’re talking about, like the awe or feeling the awe and the love for nature or taking that moment to put their hand on their partner’s back, that kind of thing. Those are the moments that matter. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I think we’re in a crisis right now. When you look at all kinds of data in the United States, we don’t love ourselves, young people are too hard on themselves, we don’t– we’re struggling in intimate relationships, young people are not marrying like they did 40 years ago, we struggle in our relationship to nature, we don’t love people who have different political views than our own, right? We are the most polarized country on the face of the earth that’s been studied, right? Other cultures, even though they have different political views, will have that fundamental sense of we’re all humans and we’ve lost that in the United States. And so, yeah, I think that we have to be thinking right now, in this moment, of how do we build it back in? One of my favorite literatures on this is just practicing micro social interactions that build trust and love. Make eye contact with people, say hi, compliment them, you know, have greeting rituals and gestures with those people. Those all build trust out in the world that gives you that web you talked about that is good for us. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I think we’re in a crisis right now. When you look at all kinds of data in the United States, we don’t love ourselves, young people are too hard on themselves, we don’t– we’re struggling in intimate relationships, young people are not marrying like they did 40 years ago, we struggle in our relationship to nature, we don’t love people who have different political views than our own, right? We are the most polarized country on the face of the earth that’s been studied, right? Other cultures, even though they have different political views, will have that fundamental sense of we’re all humans and we’ve lost that in the United States. And so, yeah, I think that we have to be thinking right now, in this moment, of how do we build it back in? One of my favorite literatures on this is just practicing micro social interactions that build trust and love. Make eye contact with people, say hi, compliment them, you know, have greeting rituals and gestures with those people. Those all build trust out in the world that gives you that web you talked about that is good for us. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If we lose someone that we really care about, what do we know about the process of grief? What does that tell us about love?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Grief is at the loss of a partner, a parent, or a child, or a dear friend. I think people are grieving right now the loss of species out in our ecosystems. For a lot of people, 50 to 60%, probably, rough estimate, it’s profoundly disorienting, right? It is– Your whole way of looking at reality is shaken, your way of moving through the day, your rhythms, how you sleep. It’s almost like psychosis, like you don’t know how to make sense of reality, and that’s what we have to reconstruct. And then what we also know is people grow out of grief, right? That you start to realize, like, when I lost my brother, Rolf, I was like, God, he’s irreplaceable. I had one brother, you know, and he was the best brother. And I started to learn, like, not only philosophical lessons about what he gave me and what life is, but also how I have to rebuild the sense of love he gave me, right? So grief is one of the great tasks of life. It’s almost inevitable for everybody. We need better wisdom about how to grow out of it and find wisdom. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Grief is at the loss of a partner, a parent, or a child, or a dear friend. I think people are grieving right now the loss of species out in our ecosystems. For a lot of people, 50 to 60%, probably, rough estimate, it’s profoundly disorienting, right? It is– Your whole way of looking at reality is shaken, your way of moving through the day, your rhythms, how you sleep. It’s almost like psychosis, like you don’t know how to make sense of reality, and that’s what we have to reconstruct. And then what we also know is people grow out of grief, right? That you start to realize, like, when I lost my brother, Rolf, I was like, God, he’s irreplaceable. I had one brother, you know, and he was the best brother. And I started to learn, like, not only philosophical lessons about what he gave me and what life is, but also how I have to rebuild the sense of love he gave me, right? So grief is one of the great tasks of life. It’s almost inevitable for everybody. We need better wisdom about how to grow out of it and find wisdom. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The impetus for this show actually came, I was hosting for him, and we did an episode on a writer from the L.A. Times was asking, he was so heartbroken over a lost love that he could not function, and he had read all of the self-help books, trying to get himself back on track, and he just couldn’t, he couldn’t function. And so he found that studying the neuroscience of grief actually helped him make sense of why he was so lost. And so my question to you is, is it helpful, the impetus like I said of the show to kind of look at love and relationship, sex and dating through a scientific lens, what does science give us in terms of understanding something that in so many ways is kind of unknowable? It’s something that we feel that’s maybe captured better in mythology or poetry. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The impetus for this show actually came, I was hosting for him, and we did an episode on a writer from the L.A. Times was asking, he was so heartbroken over a lost love that he could not function, and he had read all of the self-help books, trying to get himself back on track, and he just couldn’t, he couldn’t function. And so he found that studying the neuroscience of grief actually helped him make sense of why he was so lost. And so my question to you is, is it helpful, the impetus like I said of the show to kind of look at love and relationship, sex and dating through a scientific lens, what does science give us in terms of understanding something that in so many ways is kind of unknowable? It’s something that we feel that’s maybe captured better in mythology or poetry. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>I think it’s really important to study it. I’ll give you a couple of examples. I mean, one, we’ve learned a lot about the incredible neurophysiology of love, you know, of oxytocin and vagal tone. And my lab studies the vocalizations and facial displays of love that trace back in our mammalian evolution, which tells us it’s mammalian to love. It’s one of the things that defines mammals, is they care, right? You know, there are a couple of examples that are really interesting to me that tell us something important. Anybody who’s around a baby has surges of oxytocin, right? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>I think it’s really important to study it. I’ll give you a couple of examples. I mean, one, we’ve learned a lot about the incredible neurophysiology of love, you know, of oxytocin and vagal tone. And my lab studies the vocalizations and facial displays of love that trace back in our mammalian evolution, which tells us it’s mammalian to love. It’s one of the things that defines mammals, is they care, right? You know, there are a couple of examples that are really interesting to me that tell us something important. Anybody who’s around a baby has surges of oxytocin, right? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>You can be– it’s the mom, which was the first discovery. Oh yeah, it’s the dad. It’s gay couples, right. It is people who are just around the baby. And that tells us that this is not just mom, but anybody around the baby is gonna shift to this feeling of devotion. And that’s important. And then, you know, I’ve been fascinated by our love of nature, which, you know in the indigenous traditions that really are around the world and thousands of years old that predate, you know, all of the traditions we know about — the Abrahamic traditions, East Asian thought, et cetera – they uniformly talk about a loving relationship with trees, which Walt Whitman loved, and you know rivers and birds and so forth. Now, there’s a hypothesis, oh, we can love the many kinds of species out in our ecosystems. And along comes science and shows, well, when you listen to water, which we find such joy in, your vagus nerve is activated. When we hear bird song, which is a form of music almost, we feel hopeful and strong. When you smell fragrances like cedar or rosemary and the olfactory system processes it, you think about what’s beautiful in your childhood, right? And your brain is registering that. So that tells us, in this particular case, the science is useful in that it says, yeah, you know, poets have a lot to say about how we love nature, Wordsworth, et cetera. But, this is wired into ourselves. And it’s important because very concretely, certain parts of our world won’t take fiction or poetry or film portrayals of things seriously, but they do listen to science. Like, you know, our medical establishment. So our former Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, took stock of the power of friendships and said, we have a loneliness epidemic and it’s a health crisis. So we need all the wisdom on these emotions. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>You can be– it’s the mom, which was the first discovery. Oh yeah, it’s the dad. It’s gay couples, right. It is people who are just around the baby. And that tells us that this is not just mom, but anybody around the baby is gonna shift to this feeling of devotion. And that’s important. And then, you know, I’ve been fascinated by our love of nature, which, you know in the indigenous traditions that really are around the world and thousands of years old that predate, you know, all of the traditions we know about — the Abrahamic traditions, East Asian thought, et cetera – they uniformly talk about a loving relationship with trees, which Walt Whitman loved, and you know rivers and birds and so forth. Now, there’s a hypothesis, oh, we can love the many kinds of species out in our ecosystems. And along comes science and shows, well, when you listen to water, which we find such joy in, your vagus nerve is activated. When we hear bird song, which is a form of music almost, we feel hopeful and strong. When you smell fragrances like cedar or rosemary and the olfactory system processes it, you think about what’s beautiful in your childhood, right? And your brain is registering that. So that tells us, in this particular case, the science is useful in that it says, yeah, you know, poets have a lot to say about how we love nature, Wordsworth, et cetera. But, this is wired into ourselves. And it’s important because very concretely, certain parts of our world won’t take fiction or poetry or film portrayals of things seriously, but they do listen to science. Like, you know, our medical establishment. So our former Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, took stock of the power of friendships and said, we have a loneliness epidemic and it’s a health crisis. So we need all the wisdom on these emotions. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Has studying it for you helped you love more, or are there times when you’re in the lab going, “This is deadening it for me”? What’s in your own experience? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, my own experience has just provided a lens into how deep love is. I studied in a period of my career, 15 years ago, the nonverbal displays of love and desire, how it affects oxytocin and the vagus nerve, how couples express love through appreciation and reverence. And it kind of sharpened my eye to things. And I started to realize, for example, when I raised children. Two daughters who live in the Bay Area, Natalie and Sarafina, there’s a ton of love that is built up in communities around children, right? And that’s evolutionarily important. We call them alloparents, and we feel that for children around us. And that was really interesting that I wouldn’t have learned that without this scientific lens. The other thing that really has oriented me to, and I don’t talk enough about this, is love of humanity. In a lot of spiritual traditions, it’s fundamental just like agape in the Christian tradition, like love everyone without social distinction. And hearing about the studies of how we can form strong ties with everybody around us with eye contact and, you know, compliments and respect, it awakened me to how much we do that on a daily basis and we can benefit from it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, my own experience has just provided a lens into how deep love is. I studied in a period of my career, 15 years ago, the nonverbal displays of love and desire, how it affects oxytocin and the vagus nerve, how couples express love through appreciation and reverence. And it kind of sharpened my eye to things. And I started to realize, for example, when I raised children. Two daughters who live in the Bay Area, Natalie and Sarafina, there’s a ton of love that is built up in communities around children, right? And that’s evolutionarily important. We call them alloparents, and we feel that for children around us. And that was really interesting that I wouldn’t have learned that without this scientific lens. The other thing that really has oriented me to, and I don’t talk enough about this, is love of humanity. In a lot of spiritual traditions, it’s fundamental just like agape in the Christian tradition, like love everyone without social distinction. And hearing about the studies of how we can form strong ties with everybody around us with eye contact and, you know, compliments and respect, it awakened me to how much we do that on a daily basis and we can benefit from it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you think that love is just humanly universal, the way that we experience it, or is it culturally impacted, or does culture play a big role on how we experience and how we love? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, both are true. You know, you go to most cultures and they will show forms of love that would be very familiar to you, even if they’re a radically different culture. That they’re holding babies who are crying and they’re flirting, teens are flirting and discovering romantic attraction, and older partners are, you know, showing this, this long term form of love. It’s part of our species, right? And then at the same time, it’s radically varying. You know, it is– the degree to which you rely on romantic partners varies from one culture to another. We know how we express our love in the day-to-day really differs. In Norway, 30 to 40% of people live alone, even though they may be married, right? So they prefer kind of a solitary arrangement or solitude. In some cultures, jealousy, which protects love in some ways, is much more accentuated. There’s some deeply human universality to things like love, and then it varies dramatically. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, both are true. You know, you go to most cultures and they will show forms of love that would be very familiar to you, even if they’re a radically different culture. That they’re holding babies who are crying and they’re flirting, teens are flirting and discovering romantic attraction, and older partners are, you know, showing this, this long term form of love. It’s part of our species, right? And then at the same time, it’s radically varying. You know, it is– the degree to which you rely on romantic partners varies from one culture to another. We know how we express our love in the day-to-day really differs. In Norway, 30 to 40% of people live alone, even though they may be married, right? So they prefer kind of a solitary arrangement or solitude. In some cultures, jealousy, which protects love in some ways, is much more accentuated. There’s some deeply human universality to things like love, and then it varies dramatically. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do we have any idea whether or not people in Norway or say people in India who all pack into one place, I don’t know what the question would be, but you know, are loving more or feeling more love or feeling happier or getting the benefits of love? Do we know whether that isolation or sort of group experience? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We don’t know. It’s just very preliminary in terms of thinking about not only how do cultures vary. So we know, for example, in the United States compared to other cultures, we fall in love faster, you know. And in some studies, I think it’s Russia and Japan, it takes them longer to say, “I’m committed to you.” So that’s interesting. Why do we fall in love faster? Maybe it’s the pace of our lives or how hard we work, et cetera. But we haven’t made progress yet in understanding why. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We don’t know. It’s just very preliminary in terms of thinking about not only how do cultures vary. So we know, for example, in the United States compared to other cultures, we fall in love faster, you know. And in some studies, I think it’s Russia and Japan, it takes them longer to say, “I’m committed to you.” So that’s interesting. Why do we fall in love faster? Maybe it’s the pace of our lives or how hard we work, et cetera. But we haven’t made progress yet in understanding why. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think about the fact that we’re falling in love with robots? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>On the one hand, it’s not very surprising because early studies of love, if you just did, “What do you love?” And literally people list 50 things, and “I love my pen and my watch.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>On the one hand, it’s not very surprising because early studies of love, if you just did, “What do you love?” And literally people list 50 things, and “I love my pen and my watch.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> “My computer.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> “My computer,” and of course, you know, so we’re very good at loving inanimate things in the sense of using the word love loosely. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> “My computer,” and of course, you know, so we’re very good at loving inanimate things in the sense of using the word love loosely. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is that the accurate use? Like if I say I love my computer, can I actually feel love for my computer? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well When you look at your computer at the screen, do you get an oxytocin surge? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Probably not. So yeah, that would be an interesting test. I am profoundly worried about digital relationships. I think that the broad evidence, this is different kinds of studies and across different cultures, large samples, finds digital connection makes you feel more isolated and lonely and has certain worries about does it have the friction and the dynamics of a real relationship. We’re probably going to encounter data that show, much as we’ve learned about being on Instagram and Meta, that it’s not healthy for your overall social connection to the world. And, you know, I’d put it really frankly to audience members like, if your child came to you and she’s 16 or he’s 16 or they’re 16 and said, “I think I’ve fallen in love,” you know, “And it’s this agent on my computer,” you’d probably protest. And so I think that tells us something. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Probably not. So yeah, that would be an interesting test. I am profoundly worried about digital relationships. I think that the broad evidence, this is different kinds of studies and across different cultures, large samples, finds digital connection makes you feel more isolated and lonely and has certain worries about does it have the friction and the dynamics of a real relationship. We’re probably going to encounter data that show, much as we’ve learned about being on Instagram and Meta, that it’s not healthy for your overall social connection to the world. And, you know, I’d put it really frankly to audience members like, if your child came to you and she’s 16 or he’s 16 or they’re 16 and said, “I think I’ve fallen in love,” you know, “And it’s this agent on my computer,” you’d probably protest. And so I think that tells us something. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I really hope my daughter does not come to me at 16. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Seven. I’m hoping we figure it out before she turns 16. That’s deeply, deeply my hope. It’s probably ignorance, but I do not want her coming to me and being like “Claude and me are just, you know, getting up in there.” In this moment where there’s like so much anxiety and depression, unfortunately, and mental health issues, self-love, what do we know about self-love and how do we love ourselves better? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Seven. I’m hoping we figure it out before she turns 16. That’s deeply, deeply my hope. It’s probably ignorance, but I do not want her coming to me and being like “Claude and me are just, you know, getting up in there.” In this moment where there’s like so much anxiety and depression, unfortunately, and mental health issues, self-love, what do we know about self-love and how do we love ourselves better? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I almost tear up at the question because something has happened to this young generation compared to what I was like when I was 20. You know, they are smarter and working hard and more pressured and worried about the environment and worried about AI. I mean, they’re taking on a lot on their shoulders and facing a very tricky economy. And despite all of these strengths that they have, they’re harder on themselves, more critical, and in extreme cases, more self-loathing as you see in them and hate. And the best literature on that is self-compassion, you know. And the idea there is you take this fundamental form of love, of compassion, just feeling a devotion to somebody else’s wellbeing, and then you orient it to yourself, you know. And you do it through, sort of, practices of, sort of, reminding yourself of good things. You do it by remembering what your friends say about you that’s supportive, or you even put your hand on your chest and sort of calm down, all shown in science to kind of reduce stress and anxiety. And you know, we need to– when you mix together the pressure and anxiety of youth, and they’re turning away from dating and long-term commitments. Marriage rates have dropped 10%. It’s remarkable, right? And then they are distrusting of long-term relationships often. We’ve got a crisis coming, right, that we’ve got to attend to and love is a good way to do it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I almost tear up at the question because something has happened to this young generation compared to what I was like when I was 20. You know, they are smarter and working hard and more pressured and worried about the environment and worried about AI. I mean, they’re taking on a lot on their shoulders and facing a very tricky economy. And despite all of these strengths that they have, they’re harder on themselves, more critical, and in extreme cases, more self-loathing as you see in them and hate. And the best literature on that is self-compassion, you know. And the idea there is you take this fundamental form of love, of compassion, just feeling a devotion to somebody else’s wellbeing, and then you orient it to yourself, you know. And you do it through, sort of, practices of, sort of, reminding yourself of good things. You do it by remembering what your friends say about you that’s supportive, or you even put your hand on your chest and sort of calm down, all shown in science to kind of reduce stress and anxiety. And you know, we need to– when you mix together the pressure and anxiety of youth, and they’re turning away from dating and long-term commitments. Marriage rates have dropped 10%. It’s remarkable, right? And then they are distrusting of long-term relationships often. We’ve got a crisis coming, right, that we’ve got to attend to and love is a good way to do it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What I’m hearing from you is it doesn’t have to be like, you need to find your person or the ultimate tomorrow. It’s like literally, like you said, putting a hand over your heart, like, “How can I be a friend to myself today?” Looking at people in the eye, maybe not being so buried in our phones. Anything else you’d wanna add to the audience in terms of how tomorrow we might live in a world that has more love in it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Two things, you know, that really are particularly relevant to younger people as well, but everybody: remember how powerful friendships are. It’s interesting, you know, let’s say I’ve taught happiness for 30 years at Berkeley, the science, and we study tables and data, and early in the happiness literature when they asked what makes you happy, most typically it’s being with other people, right? Which is– people would be like, “That makes sense,” even though we spend inordinate amounts of time alone, you know. But then it was interesting like time and time again, studies would find friends are just, they’re this pure form of happiness in some sense, and joy. And so there’s now a rich literature on like, building friends into your life and also making friends in the broader network of people around you, which we’ve talked about these micro interactions of civility, which we lost. And then the other one is, I would challenge our audience to think about the feelings you have about nature, right? Sunsets or dark skies. I was just in Sequoia National Park as part of the dark sky celebration, stars, right. Running water, rain, your garden, flowers, et cetera, trees. We have a long and deep evolutionary history of really loving and feeling loved by nature, and to pause and remember that and to go seek it out. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Two things, you know, that really are particularly relevant to younger people as well, but everybody: remember how powerful friendships are. It’s interesting, you know, let’s say I’ve taught happiness for 30 years at Berkeley, the science, and we study tables and data, and early in the happiness literature when they asked what makes you happy, most typically it’s being with other people, right? Which is– people would be like, “That makes sense,” even though we spend inordinate amounts of time alone, you know. But then it was interesting like time and time again, studies would find friends are just, they’re this pure form of happiness in some sense, and joy. And so there’s now a rich literature on like, building friends into your life and also making friends in the broader network of people around you, which we’ve talked about these micro interactions of civility, which we lost. And then the other one is, I would challenge our audience to think about the feelings you have about nature, right? Sunsets or dark skies. I was just in Sequoia National Park as part of the dark sky celebration, stars, right. Running water, rain, your garden, flowers, et cetera, trees. We have a long and deep evolutionary history of really loving and feeling loved by nature, and to pause and remember that and to go seek it out. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Dacher Keltner is a Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley and heads the Greater Good Science Center at the University. Inside Love is a new production of KQED and we’d love to hear your thoughts. Our email is insidelove@kqed.org. Our engineer is Christopher Beal, our video engineer is Jim McKee and our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Inside Love\u003c/a>, our series explores what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>We say it without thinking: I love that song, I love this city, I love you. But when researchers try to pin love down, they find a panoply of meanings. Love is a biological drive, a psychological attachment, a practice expressed through countless small choices and a cultural story. UC Berkeley psychology professor Dacher Keltner argues that love serves an even more fundamental purpose: It helps keep human beings alive. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming an almost reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone,” Dacher says. “Strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy.” We talk to Keltner about what we mean when we talk about love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Learn more about Dacher Keltner and his work \u003ca href=\"https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/dacher-keltner\">here\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-happiness/id1340505607\">here\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>Dacher Keltner, professor of psychology and founding faculty director of the Greater Good Science Center, UC Berkeley\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think it’s tough to define love. As a researcher, do you have a definition for it? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>What I would say is that it’s a brief feeling that we have about things or people that we feel devoted to, that we want to sacrifice to, and that we feel uniquely connected to. Science is making progress in understanding the love we feel for romantic partners, sexual partners, friends, family members, strangers, and nature. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And is it a different kind of love that we’re feeling? Is something different lighting up if, say, it’s a tree or a whale or our lover or our husband?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We only have a partial answer to that question, Lesley. We don’t know, and it’s a great question, does our love of non-human forms, other forms of life, resemble the feelings of love we have towards a child or a partner or a parent or sibling? And we just don’t know. We do know, and it’s interesting, there’s a great study from Japan showing, focused on oxytocin, which is this neuropeptide that connects us to people. And when people bring their dogs into the lab, and they look at their dog in the eyes, they show a burst of oxytocin, so does the dog. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> That makes me feel so much better that if I’m looking at my dog, he’s looking at me back. Because I don’t know if you’ve seen there’s a New Yorker cartoon that’s so funny, where the person is looking at their dog, and they’re saying, “Oh my God, you’re my best friend.” And in the cartoon, the dog is looking back, going, “Where is my next hot dog? What’s happening here?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>It’s a very cynical view of– no, there are 87 million dogs in the United States or something like that. Truly, we co-evolve with dogs for 10-15,000 years to form these very important bonds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And when I look at my dog, I definitely feel that big, like, swirl of oxytocin when he looks back at me. Is it an emotion that I’m feeling? Is it a feeling that you’re doing an action? What exactly is love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you say, “I love my brother,” or “I love my romantic partner,” part of it is a feeling state, probably 15 seconds, half a minute. And we’ve studied those in my lab at Berkeley, just looking at behaviors associated with that state, physiology. It’s also what philosophers call a sentiment, right? Which is a more enduring feeling you have towards something that you love. I love, you know, the San Francisco 49ers, or I love my garden, right? And that’s gonna be more enduring over time. And then there are trait-like characteristics where there are just some people who love more things in the world. And when they say that they love things, it’s just part of who they are as an identity over time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And why, evolutionarily, are we wired to love? How did it serve us originally, and potentially, how has that wiring changed over time? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Here’s where evolutionary scholarship is really useful, which is we are a hyper-social species. To survive, we had to find food together, take care of offspring together, fend off predators, stay warm together when the ice age hit 10-12,000 years ago, et cetera. We’re a very social species. And what our sociality required is that we give up self-interest. We sacrifice. You have to sacrifice for romantic partners, right? You forgo other opportunities. You have to sacrifice for friends. And the thinking is that love evolved as an emotion to make it really easy to sacrifice for people, to give up self-interest, right? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> To survive. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> To survive, you know. So when we fall in love with our little baby, who’s a few months old, you know, they’re vomiting on our clothes and pooping and waking us up at night and disrupting our sex life, and they cost a lot of money But the love of that being short-circuits all those concerns, and we are devoted to the being out of love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> And I imagine, for mating and for reproduction, right? I mean, we are falling in love so that we make more of ourselves. Is that a different kind of love than the love that you’re saying, a parental love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Our audience should really go back to John Bowlby, a very influential thinker about attachment. Bowlby said there are kind of three basic systems that help us reproduce our genes, if you will, in the evolutionary terminology. One is sexual desire, which gets us to reproduce. And there’s work on that showing it’s really distinct from feeling devoted love or long-term love. And then we have a caregiving love, which is toward vulnerable, most typically young children, the elderly, et cetera. Any kind of vulnerability triggers a sense of care. And those three emotions together, you know, the feelings of desire and love, and then filial love or loving of children, really ensure that our offspring make it to the age of viability; they survive; we take care of them, which is the critical task in evolution. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If our childhood is particularly rough and maybe not a very loving environment and love is really scary for us, can we get better at loving? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Of the most sophisticated literature on this, one [about] is trauma. We know extreme trauma in a family is very hard on relationships and trust, rightfully so. Right? And so you got to work hard to transcend that. And we do know from the trauma literature, which is the extreme version of your question, a lot of people recover. They are resilient. They find new friends. There’s a whole new literature on significant childhood attachments, early positive experiences that shows, even if you’re in a household that has a lot of anger and aggression, violence, not much love, other adults out there can give you the love you need, right? A coach or a teacher or a minister, et cetera. And then we also learn from the attachment literature that even if you grew up in a tough home with respect to feeling safe and secure, which is key in attachment, a lot of people change, right? And they form friendships in adolescence; they learn new things with a romantic partner; they have a spiritual love; they have community. So we are resilient when it comes to love and finding new ways. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think it says about humans as a species that we can have such a range of different kinds of love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> It’s interesting often when you ask people at the end of life, “What’s it all about?” You know, and people will often say, like, “It really is about love.” And I think that one of the really striking qualities of who we are is we sacrifice, and we devote ourselves to things, to children and to friends and to partners and to ideas and political groups and the environment, et cetera. And that really is how we survived is to be a devoted species. And love is the engine of that, right? The friendship literature, which I think is a very underappreciated form of love. And, you know, friends give us life expectancy; they help our nervous systems; they bring us meaning; they help us navigate social reality. And really the engine of that is love, to find a lot of people to love. So, you know, what does it say about our species? It says, very underappreciated, that love is vital to survival because it helps us in so many realms. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Anything else you want to add, you just listed a bunch of stuff about health, but anything else you wanna add, just kind of make the case for bringing more love in your life in terms of what we know it does for our mind and for our physical body? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>When you start to put together the benefits of loving friends and loving your children and loving partners and loving nature and really forming a almost a reverential, devoted attitude towards these sources of love, it reduces cortisol, the stress hormone, it is good for life expectancy, strong social support adds 10 years of life expectancy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Ten years? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Ten years. It’s one of the most important findings in the social sciences, is if I move through my day and I see a stranger in the street and I feel trust and affection and I call my best friend and I call me parents and children, I have ten years of additional life. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If you have that web of support around you. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>That’s right. The literature on, you know, loving nature, biophilia, is almost as robust, which is, if I have a regular, reverential, loving relationship to the flora and fauna around me and the rivers and the oceans and the sky and the light, I do better in terms of disease. I have a stronger heart. If I get cancer, it progresses less fast. I have better concentration at my work. You could go on, right? So it is this vital vitamin, if you will, that we gotta be taking regularly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And that we, especially in our fast-moving culture, do not prioritize. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Oh, man. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It almost comes last often on the list, unfortunately. I mean, hopefully not, but I think many people’s lives feel like they’re moving so quickly that walking outside and feeling what you’re talking about, like the awe or feeling the awe and the love for nature or taking that moment to put their hand on their partner’s back, that kind of thing. Those are the moments that matter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I think we’re in a crisis right now. When you look at all kinds of data in the United States, we don’t love ourselves, young people are too hard on themselves, we don’t– we’re struggling in intimate relationships, young people are not marrying like they did 40 years ago, we struggle in our relationship to nature, we don’t love people who have different political views than our own, right? We are the most polarized country on the face of the earth that’s been studied, right? Other cultures, even though they have different political views, will have that fundamental sense of we’re all humans and we’ve lost that in the United States. And so, yeah, I think that we have to be thinking right now, in this moment, of how do we build it back in? One of my favorite literatures on this is just practicing micro social interactions that build trust and love. Make eye contact with people, say hi, compliment them, you know, have greeting rituals and gestures with those people. Those all build trust out in the world that gives you that web you talked about that is good for us. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If we lose someone that we really care about, what do we know about the process of grief? What does that tell us about love?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Grief is at the loss of a partner, a parent, or a child, or a dear friend. I think people are grieving right now the loss of species out in our ecosystems. For a lot of people, 50 to 60%, probably, rough estimate, it’s profoundly disorienting, right? It is– Your whole way of looking at reality is shaken, your way of moving through the day, your rhythms, how you sleep. It’s almost like psychosis, like you don’t know how to make sense of reality, and that’s what we have to reconstruct. And then what we also know is people grow out of grief, right? That you start to realize, like, when I lost my brother, Rolf, I was like, God, he’s irreplaceable. I had one brother, you know, and he was the best brother. And I started to learn, like, not only philosophical lessons about what he gave me and what life is, but also how I have to rebuild the sense of love he gave me, right? So grief is one of the great tasks of life. It’s almost inevitable for everybody. We need better wisdom about how to grow out of it and find wisdom. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The impetus for this show actually came, I was hosting for him, and we did an episode on a writer from the L.A. Times was asking, he was so heartbroken over a lost love that he could not function, and he had read all of the self-help books, trying to get himself back on track, and he just couldn’t, he couldn’t function. And so he found that studying the neuroscience of grief actually helped him make sense of why he was so lost. And so my question to you is, is it helpful, the impetus like I said of the show to kind of look at love and relationship, sex and dating through a scientific lens, what does science give us in terms of understanding something that in so many ways is kind of unknowable? It’s something that we feel that’s maybe captured better in mythology or poetry. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>I think it’s really important to study it. I’ll give you a couple of examples. I mean, one, we’ve learned a lot about the incredible neurophysiology of love, you know, of oxytocin and vagal tone. And my lab studies the vocalizations and facial displays of love that trace back in our mammalian evolution, which tells us it’s mammalian to love. It’s one of the things that defines mammals, is they care, right? You know, there are a couple of examples that are really interesting to me that tell us something important. Anybody who’s around a baby has surges of oxytocin, right? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I know that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>You can be– it’s the mom, which was the first discovery. Oh yeah, it’s the dad. It’s gay couples, right. It is people who are just around the baby. And that tells us that this is not just mom, but anybody around the baby is gonna shift to this feeling of devotion. And that’s important. And then, you know, I’ve been fascinated by our love of nature, which, you know in the indigenous traditions that really are around the world and thousands of years old that predate, you know, all of the traditions we know about — the Abrahamic traditions, East Asian thought, et cetera – they uniformly talk about a loving relationship with trees, which Walt Whitman loved, and you know rivers and birds and so forth. Now, there’s a hypothesis, oh, we can love the many kinds of species out in our ecosystems. And along comes science and shows, well, when you listen to water, which we find such joy in, your vagus nerve is activated. When we hear bird song, which is a form of music almost, we feel hopeful and strong. When you smell fragrances like cedar or rosemary and the olfactory system processes it, you think about what’s beautiful in your childhood, right? And your brain is registering that. So that tells us, in this particular case, the science is useful in that it says, yeah, you know, poets have a lot to say about how we love nature, Wordsworth, et cetera. But, this is wired into ourselves. And it’s important because very concretely, certain parts of our world won’t take fiction or poetry or film portrayals of things seriously, but they do listen to science. Like, you know, our medical establishment. So our former Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, took stock of the power of friendships and said, we have a loneliness epidemic and it’s a health crisis. So we need all the wisdom on these emotions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Has studying it for you helped you love more, or are there times when you’re in the lab going, “This is deadening it for me”? What’s in your own experience? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, my own experience has just provided a lens into how deep love is. I studied in a period of my career, 15 years ago, the nonverbal displays of love and desire, how it affects oxytocin and the vagus nerve, how couples express love through appreciation and reverence. And it kind of sharpened my eye to things. And I started to realize, for example, when I raised children. Two daughters who live in the Bay Area, Natalie and Sarafina, there’s a ton of love that is built up in communities around children, right? And that’s evolutionarily important. We call them alloparents, and we feel that for children around us. And that was really interesting that I wouldn’t have learned that without this scientific lens. The other thing that really has oriented me to, and I don’t talk enough about this, is love of humanity. In a lot of spiritual traditions, it’s fundamental just like agape in the Christian tradition, like love everyone without social distinction. And hearing about the studies of how we can form strong ties with everybody around us with eye contact and, you know, compliments and respect, it awakened me to how much we do that on a daily basis and we can benefit from it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you think that love is just humanly universal, the way that we experience it, or is it culturally impacted, or does culture play a big role on how we experience and how we love? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well, both are true. You know, you go to most cultures and they will show forms of love that would be very familiar to you, even if they’re a radically different culture. That they’re holding babies who are crying and they’re flirting, teens are flirting and discovering romantic attraction, and older partners are, you know, showing this, this long term form of love. It’s part of our species, right? And then at the same time, it’s radically varying. You know, it is– the degree to which you rely on romantic partners varies from one culture to another. We know how we express our love in the day-to-day really differs. In Norway, 30 to 40% of people live alone, even though they may be married, right? So they prefer kind of a solitary arrangement or solitude. In some cultures, jealousy, which protects love in some ways, is much more accentuated. There’s some deeply human universality to things like love, and then it varies dramatically. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do we have any idea whether or not people in Norway or say people in India who all pack into one place, I don’t know what the question would be, but you know, are loving more or feeling more love or feeling happier or getting the benefits of love? Do we know whether that isolation or sort of group experience? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>We don’t know. It’s just very preliminary in terms of thinking about not only how do cultures vary. So we know, for example, in the United States compared to other cultures, we fall in love faster, you know. And in some studies, I think it’s Russia and Japan, it takes them longer to say, “I’m committed to you.” So that’s interesting. Why do we fall in love faster? Maybe it’s the pace of our lives or how hard we work, et cetera. But we haven’t made progress yet in understanding why. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What do you think about the fact that we’re falling in love with robots? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>On the one hand, it’s not very surprising because early studies of love, if you just did, “What do you love?” And literally people list 50 things, and “I love my pen and my watch.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> “My computer.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> “My computer,” and of course, you know, so we’re very good at loving inanimate things in the sense of using the word love loosely. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is that the accurate use? Like if I say I love my computer, can I actually feel love for my computer? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Well When you look at your computer at the screen, do you get an oxytocin surge? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>Probably not. So yeah, that would be an interesting test. I am profoundly worried about digital relationships. I think that the broad evidence, this is different kinds of studies and across different cultures, large samples, finds digital connection makes you feel more isolated and lonely and has certain worries about does it have the friction and the dynamics of a real relationship. We’re probably going to encounter data that show, much as we’ve learned about being on Instagram and Meta, that it’s not healthy for your overall social connection to the world. And, you know, I’d put it really frankly to audience members like, if your child came to you and she’s 16 or he’s 16 or they’re 16 and said, “I think I’ve fallen in love,” you know, “And it’s this agent on my computer,” you’d probably protest. And so I think that tells us something. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I really hope my daughter does not come to me at 16. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner: \u003c/strong>How old is your daughter? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Seven. I’m hoping we figure it out before she turns 16. That’s deeply, deeply my hope. It’s probably ignorance, but I do not want her coming to me and being like “Claude and me are just, you know, getting up in there.” In this moment where there’s like so much anxiety and depression, unfortunately, and mental health issues, self-love, what do we know about self-love and how do we love ourselves better? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> I almost tear up at the question because something has happened to this young generation compared to what I was like when I was 20. You know, they are smarter and working hard and more pressured and worried about the environment and worried about AI. I mean, they’re taking on a lot on their shoulders and facing a very tricky economy. And despite all of these strengths that they have, they’re harder on themselves, more critical, and in extreme cases, more self-loathing as you see in them and hate. And the best literature on that is self-compassion, you know. And the idea there is you take this fundamental form of love, of compassion, just feeling a devotion to somebody else’s wellbeing, and then you orient it to yourself, you know. And you do it through, sort of, practices of, sort of, reminding yourself of good things. You do it by remembering what your friends say about you that’s supportive, or you even put your hand on your chest and sort of calm down, all shown in science to kind of reduce stress and anxiety. And you know, we need to– when you mix together the pressure and anxiety of youth, and they’re turning away from dating and long-term commitments. Marriage rates have dropped 10%. It’s remarkable, right? And then they are distrusting of long-term relationships often. We’ve got a crisis coming, right, that we’ve got to attend to and love is a good way to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What I’m hearing from you is it doesn’t have to be like, you need to find your person or the ultimate tomorrow. It’s like literally, like you said, putting a hand over your heart, like, “How can I be a friend to myself today?” Looking at people in the eye, maybe not being so buried in our phones. Anything else you’d wanna add to the audience in terms of how tomorrow we might live in a world that has more love in it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> Two things, you know, that really are particularly relevant to younger people as well, but everybody: remember how powerful friendships are. It’s interesting, you know, let’s say I’ve taught happiness for 30 years at Berkeley, the science, and we study tables and data, and early in the happiness literature when they asked what makes you happy, most typically it’s being with other people, right? Which is– people would be like, “That makes sense,” even though we spend inordinate amounts of time alone, you know. But then it was interesting like time and time again, studies would find friends are just, they’re this pure form of happiness in some sense, and joy. And so there’s now a rich literature on like, building friends into your life and also making friends in the broader network of people around you, which we’ve talked about these micro interactions of civility, which we lost. And then the other one is, I would challenge our audience to think about the feelings you have about nature, right? Sunsets or dark skies. I was just in Sequoia National Park as part of the dark sky celebration, stars, right. Running water, rain, your garden, flowers, et cetera, trees. We have a long and deep evolutionary history of really loving and feeling loved by nature, and to pause and remember that and to go seek it out. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Dacher, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dacher Keltner:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome, Lesley. It’s been a really wonderful conversation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Dacher Keltner is a Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley and heads the Greater Good Science Center at the University. Inside Love is a new production of KQED and we’d love to hear your thoughts. Our email is insidelove@kqed.org. Our engineer is Christopher Beal, our video engineer is Jim McKee and our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\">\u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, our series exploring what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Politics isn’t just pulling the country apart — it’s unsettling our most intimate relationships. Nearly half of Americans say they wouldn’t date someone who doesn’t share their political views. But what happens if you’re already in love, and politics becomes a fault line in your relationship? Can love make space for views you find impossible to accept?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity,” said Mónica Guzmán, host of the podcast “A Braver Way.” “Because if it’s not you who talks to that person, and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who’s going to do it?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>We’ll talk to Guzmán about how to stay curious even when you hate your lover’s politics — and how to coexist peacefully without surrendering your own convictions\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán,\u003c/strong> host, “\u003ca href=\"https://braverangels.org/abraverway/\">A Braver Way\u003c/a>” podcast; author, “I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times”\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Polarization is present in your own family. Your parents are enthusiastic Trump supporters. You are a liberal journalist from Seattle who voted for Joe Biden. Do you all avoid politics? Or how do you navigate those conversations?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Earlier on, it was a bit awkward. We didn’t know how to pick it up, but we’re a really unfiltered family. So as soon as we became citizens, because we’re Mexican immigrants, back in the year 2000, it became clear my parents were going to the right and me and my brother were going to the left. The volume at restaurants, when Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow came up, it just went up. We would just fill the car, front seat versus back seat. But it got really tense after the 2016 election. That’s when we wondered: is the heat from the friction between our perspectives going to burn something, or is it going to cook something? The lessons we learned, trying to keep things to a simmer, going through rupture and repair cycles, trying to be honest with each other even while we let the other person be honest with us, boy, that was hard, but it taught us a lot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you try to avoid certain topics or do you find that you can find common ground?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>These days we talk about it all. There really is not much that we’re not able to discuss. To give you an example, my mother was a pro-life activist who went to the march on Washington, and I am decidedly pro-choice. So, the conversations would often include tears, her not believing that her own daughter could think these things. But we’re also able to have the most constructive conversations on abortion. The common ground we found is lots of people on both sides of this issue want fewer unwanted pregnancies. Okay, what can we do as a culture and as a society? You can get to some pretty constructive, incredible nuances of these issues and understand that both of us care deeply about what’s going on in different ways.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I imagine you’re not living with your parents anymore. You’re not with them 24 hours a day, like you may be with a partner. So, do you think it’s different for those who are navigating this inside a romantic relationship?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, when you are living with them all the time, everything changes. I’ve heard from couples where one of them comes into the room, and they’re watching Fox News, or they’re watching MSNBC, you’re already triggered by something. And then different partners will have different ideas about whether or not to talk about politics. The problem is if politics is deeply meaningful to one or both partners, not talking about politics is not talking about me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What is the goal of those conversations? Are you trying to sway someone who has a deeply different view? Is that even possible in this moment? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>In a committed romantic relationship, you want to stay connected. You want to love and support your partner. So the goal has to include understanding. The good thing about being in a relationship is you’ve already built up enough trust to be able to be honest about how you feel. A difference in ideas can be an amazing opportunity to strengthen your connection. But it’s also a big challenge because it’s difficult to stay curious when the other person believes something you find obscene, that you find wild. And because of your relationship, your expectations get in the way of that goal of understanding to maintain connection. You’re going to say, “How could my own husband, how could my own wife, how could my own partner believe something like this?” That’s all going to make you want to run away from a conversation that could be really fascinating if you go ahead and have it. It’s through those clashes and diverse opinions within the trust of a relationship that you can learn so much about them and so much about you. One of the most productive questions that you ask across a divide, especially if it’s a values-based difference, is not, “Why don’t you care about this thing that I care about?” But rather, “What do you care about more?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I know a couple who’s navigating this. The guy is very right, and the woman is quite left. One thing that he says is so challenging is that their social media feeds are giving them very different facts. How does a couple have a responsible, empathetic conversation if they don’t share the same information on the topic? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The way we do that is we follow each other’s threads without judgment. I know how difficult that can be because if you think that your partner is trusting sources that are bogus, all you want to do is tell them they’re wrong, the source is wrong, and that you just can’t have the conversation unless they agree with you. You love your partner, and your partner trusts this source. Why? Get curious about that and let that curiosity become a nonjudgmental accompaniment, and ask your partner, “Can you walk me through the source you see? Can you show me the newsletter?” And then listen and watch and ask questions that allow them to be open with you. Do not criticize the source until you fully understand what it’s all about. And then afterward say, “Can I walk you through my source and tell you why I trust them?” So much about the sources that we believe is about what they call up in us. Some sources reflect people’s concerns better than others. I think that’s the key. So even if somebody who disagrees is like, “There’s nothing factual there. There’s a lot of sensationalism.” And often that’s true. It’s still worth noting when a source tugs on something that matters to somebody, and it makes them gravitate to those voices. We need to understand that and pick up on that. Once you do that and people feel heard across that divide, then you can start a more persuasive conversation. I have received your source nonjudgmentally. Maybe you’ve received mine. Now can we talk about verification? Can we talk about substance? Can we talk about why I don’t trust your source? That conversation is better had after you understand why they trust theirs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If I am highly convinced that I know something about this issue and I’m not going to change, is it worth having a conversation about that issue with my partner?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The best way for me to be heard on my convictions is to demonstrate to the other person that I can hear theirs. The trick is not to treat it as a strategy. I’m going to fake listen to them nonjudgmentally until they give me the time of day, and then I’m going to steamroll them and tell them how wrong they are. No. These conversations can be transformative. You are convicted; that’s great. It’s tough to be curious. It’s tough to be open, but again, how can anybody give you that gift if you can’t give it to anybody else? Also, there is nothing about receiving somebody’s opposing conviction that threatens yours. Nothing. There is no such thing as someone changing your mind with a flip of a switch unless your mind is already fertile ground to be changed on that thing. So if your convictions are really deep, what do you have to worry about? All you’re doing is listening to somebody else. And by the way, in the context of a relationship, you’re listening to someone you love. And we all know how wonderful it feels to be heard by someone we love.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you have advice for folks if they want to have a conversation that they know is going to be hard? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>One big thing is to understand that you don’t need to have hard conversations all at once, and that it’s nice when life flows in through your conversation. So there’s been some research that conversations in the car can be really productive. You’re not looking at each other like a showdown. You’re looking straight ahead. You’re next to each other. Also, if you’re sitting down, I like going to coffee shops and looking for seats that are next to each other but angled 45 degrees toward each other. This is amazing because it allows you to look at your partner and also look away to take a break. This helps calm your nervous system to get enough fuel for some of those hard moments. And then finally, you don’t have to have it out all at once. Come back to it later. Let what they said sit in your mind and let yourself process that. It’s incredible what that does. Sometimes if we try to do it all in one shot, we’ve got so many emotions that they run away with us. Let the pressure valve do its work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is staying curious in any way, shape, or form letting go of protecting, say, another group? I can imagine someone being convicted about a social justice issue or racial equality and that curiosity feels like they’re abandoning that group. Staying curious and being in conversation with someone who they see is against protecting that group could feel like that curiosity is dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity because if it’s not you who talks to them and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who? Who’s going to do it? You have the relationship, you have the trust, you have opportunity. So I would actually flip that on its head. I think it is more dangerous not to be curious and not to engage someone who holds an idea you find to be harmful. There is so much harm in isolating ourselves into different communities that can’t talk to each other. That’s what’s ultimately the most harmful because if we’re not talking, we’re not persuading, we’re not reframing, we are not seeing things a different way. We’re just going to keep seeing things the way we like. And if we’re not listened to and can’t engage with people who are close to us and disagree with us, then we’re just going to continue to be heard by people who agree with us, which research shows radicalizes our opinions and makes us think that the whole world ought to believe what we believe. We all become more intolerant of different opinions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Research does show that we tend to exaggerate how extreme people on the other side actually are. Why do you think we have that tendency? Why do we do that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I like to say that whoever is underrepresented in your life will be overrepresented in your imagination. There is fear that has to do with this and stories that we hear in a very polarized media environment. A lot of the loudest voices and the most extreme stories are the ones that get told. So of course they take up a lot of space in our heads. Meanwhile, a lot of the conversations across divides that we witness on the news and in other places are high-octane showdowns meant to score points. You’ve probably seen the research too about how one side thinks the other is immoral and more vicious and crazy, stupid and evil. It’s completely unsurprising to me, given how we are trapped in this vicious cycle, that we are judging each other more while we’re engaging each other less. The research into the misperceptions, the perception gaps, the exaggerations is profound. Where are we getting our information? If we’re getting our information about people who disagree with us, only secondhand, there’s a good chance it’s a funhouse mirror over there. You have to make some space in your life to ask, “What am I missing?” It’s pretty tough to live so scared of everybody. It’s not fun. It’s not helping us. And it’s certainly not changing the world for the better.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>You’ve interviewed a married couple, one is a committed liberal, one is committed conservative. What did you learn from them?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>This is Rick and Barbara. Rick is Republican, and Barbara is Democrat. In 2020, they went through a period where they could not talk to each other at all. Rick was going to vote for Trump. Barbara was just beside herself. It was too activating; it was too hard to be in the same room and have these conversations about these things that mattered so much to them. But they found another way. They wrote long letters to each other about how they felt and what was concerning them. That got them through that period, which I think was so cool. So they agreed that they would ask each other questions about what they believed. After a while, Barbara noticed that she was asking Rick a lot of questions, but Rick was not asking her a lot of questions. So, she confronted him and said, “Rick, what’s going on?” And Rick said, “Well, I already know why you believe what you believe.” She said, “Oh really? Prove it.” So they named an issue, and Rick goes, “Well, you believe that probably because of this and this and this.” And Barbara goes, “That’s right.” And then they went to the next issue. “Well, you believe it because of this.” And Barbara says, “That’s right!” They did this over and over again. The common reason turned out to mostly apply to Barbara, but Barbara said, “Rick, we’re married. I need you to hear those reasons from me. I need you to hear my personal reasons. Not the general trend or statistic. Can you please still ask me?” You still have to get it from each other. It’s these conversations that are the necessary piece. You need to be fully participating in those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If folks are not in a marriage, but they’re just dating, do you think people should filter for politics in this moment because things are so divided?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I consider myself a curious person. I like the world to get bigger and not smaller, at least in some areas of my life. So the question is, do you want that too? Because it can make you grow. The contrast is a beautiful thing at a time when so many people are running away and avoiding friction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And you might be compatible in many other ways, even if you’re not politically compatible. Running up to the midterms, it’s going to get hot. Do you have any advice for folks on how to navigate relationships with their friends, lover, or family that are on the other side of the aisle?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you are surprised by something they say, then take that as an invitation. You already have the relationship. And then instead of, “Whoa, really? That’s terrible, that sucks.” Say, “Whoa, really? Tell me more about that. How’d you come to that?” How did you come to believe what you believe is the most powerful question you can ask? Not, why do you believe what you believe? Why do you believe what you believe puts people on trial. How did you come to believe what you believe — asks people to take you on a tour. Create and generate the kind of understanding that could be a countercultural thing against the partisan messaging, sloganeering, exaggerating, manipulating that happens every campaign season in this country.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>May we all get a little more curious in the next month or so. Thank you so much, Mónica. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Thank you. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Mónica Guzmán is a journalist and host of the podcast, “A Braver Way.” Inside Love is a new production of KQED, and we’d love to hear what you think. Our email is InsideLove@KQED.org. Our engineer is Katherine Monahan. Our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript was lightly edited for clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Earlier on, it was a bit awkward. We didn’t know how to pick it up, but we’re a really unfiltered family. So as soon as we became citizens, because we’re Mexican immigrants, back in the year 2000, it became clear my parents were going to the right and me and my brother were going to the left. The volume at restaurants, when Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow came up, it just went up. We would just fill the car, front seat versus back seat. But it got really tense after the 2016 election. That’s when we wondered: is the heat from the friction between our perspectives going to burn something, or is it going to cook something? The lessons we learned, trying to keep things to a simmer, going through rupture and repair cycles, trying to be honest with each other even while we let the other person be honest with us, boy, that was hard, but it taught us a lot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>These days we talk about it all. There really is not much that we’re not able to discuss. To give you an example, my mother was a pro-life activist who went to the march on Washington, and I am decidedly pro-choice. So, the conversations would often include tears, her not believing that her own daughter could think these things. But we’re also able to have the most constructive conversations on abortion. The common ground we found is lots of people on both sides of this issue want fewer unwanted pregnancies. Okay, what can we do as a culture and as a society? You can get to some pretty constructive, incredible nuances of these issues and understand that both of us care deeply about what’s going on in different ways.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, when you are living with them all the time, everything changes. I’ve heard from couples where one of them comes into the room, and they’re watching Fox News, or they’re watching MSNBC, you’re already triggered by something. And then different partners will have different ideas about whether or not to talk about politics. The problem is if politics is deeply meaningful to one or both partners, not talking about politics is not talking about me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, when you are living with them all the time, everything changes. I’ve heard from couples where one of them comes into the room, and they’re watching Fox News, or they’re watching MSNBC, you’re already triggered by something. And then different partners will have different ideas about whether or not to talk about politics. The problem is if politics is deeply meaningful to one or both partners, not talking about politics is not talking about me.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What is the goal of those conversations? Are you trying to sway someone who has a deeply different view? Is that even possible in this moment? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What is the goal of those conversations? Are you trying to sway someone who has a deeply different view? Is that even possible in this moment? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>In a committed romantic relationship, you want to stay connected. You want to love and support your partner. So the goal has to include understanding. The good thing about being in a relationship is you’ve already built up enough trust to be able to be honest about how you feel. A difference in ideas can be an amazing opportunity to strengthen your connection. But it’s also a big challenge because it’s difficult to stay curious when the other person believes something you find obscene, that you find wild. And because of your relationship, your expectations get in the way of that goal of understanding to maintain connection. You’re going to say, “How could my own husband, how could my own wife, how could my own partner believe something like this?” That’s all going to make you want to run away from a conversation that could be really fascinating if you go ahead and have it. It’s through those clashes and diverse opinions within the trust of a relationship that you can learn so much about them and so much about you. One of the most productive questions that you ask across a divide, especially if it’s a values-based difference, is not, “Why don’t you care about this thing that I care about?” But rather, “What do you care about more?”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>In a committed romantic relationship, you want to stay connected. You want to love and support your partner. So the goal has to include understanding. The good thing about being in a relationship is you’ve already built up enough trust to be able to be honest about how you feel. A difference in ideas can be an amazing opportunity to strengthen your connection. But it’s also a big challenge because it’s difficult to stay curious when the other person believes something you find obscene, that you find wild. And because of your relationship, your expectations get in the way of that goal of understanding to maintain connection. You’re going to say, “How could my own husband, how could my own wife, how could my own partner believe something like this?” That’s all going to make you want to run away from a conversation that could be really fascinating if you go ahead and have it. It’s through those clashes and diverse opinions within the trust of a relationship that you can learn so much about them and so much about you. One of the most productive questions that you ask across a divide, especially if it’s a values-based difference, is not, “Why don’t you care about this thing that I care about?” But rather, “What do you care about more?”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I know a couple who’s navigating this. The guy is very right, and the woman is quite left. One thing that he says is so challenging is that their social media feeds are giving them very different facts. How does a couple have a responsible, empathetic conversation if they don’t share the same information on the topic? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I know a couple who’s navigating this. The guy is very right, and the woman is quite left. One thing that he says is so challenging is that their social media feeds are giving them very different facts. How does a couple have a responsible, empathetic conversation if they don’t share the same information on the topic? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The way we do that is we follow each other’s threads without judgment. I know how difficult that can be because if you think that your partner is trusting sources that are bogus, all you want to do is tell them they’re wrong, the source is wrong, and that you just can’t have the conversation unless they agree with you. You love your partner, and your partner trusts this source. Why? Get curious about that and let that curiosity become a nonjudgmental accompaniment, and ask your partner, “Can you walk me through the source you see? Can you show me the newsletter?” And then listen and watch and ask questions that allow them to be open with you. Do not criticize the source until you fully understand what it’s all about. And then afterward say, “Can I walk you through my source and tell you why I trust them?” So much about the sources that we believe is about what they call up in us. Some sources reflect people’s concerns better than others. I think that’s the key. So even if somebody who disagrees is like, “There’s nothing factual there. There’s a lot of sensationalism.” And often that’s true. It’s still worth noting when a source tugs on something that matters to somebody, and it makes them gravitate to those voices. We need to understand that and pick up on that. Once you do that and people feel heard across that divide, then you can start a more persuasive conversation. I have received your source nonjudgmentally. Maybe you’ve received mine. Now can we talk about verification? Can we talk about substance? Can we talk about why I don’t trust your source? That conversation is better had after you understand why they trust theirs.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The way we do that is we follow each other’s threads without judgment. I know how difficult that can be because if you think that your partner is trusting sources that are bogus, all you want to do is tell them they’re wrong, the source is wrong, and that you just can’t have the conversation unless they agree with you. You love your partner, and your partner trusts this source. Why? Get curious about that and let that curiosity become a nonjudgmental accompaniment, and ask your partner, “Can you walk me through the source you see? Can you show me the newsletter?” And then listen and watch and ask questions that allow them to be open with you. Do not criticize the source until you fully understand what it’s all about. And then afterward say, “Can I walk you through my source and tell you why I trust them?” So much about the sources that we believe is about what they call up in us. Some sources reflect people’s concerns better than others. I think that’s the key. So even if somebody who disagrees is like, “There’s nothing factual there. There’s a lot of sensationalism.” And often that’s true. It’s still worth noting when a source tugs on something that matters to somebody, and it makes them gravitate to those voices. We need to understand that and pick up on that. Once you do that and people feel heard across that divide, then you can start a more persuasive conversation. I have received your source nonjudgmentally. Maybe you’ve received mine. Now can we talk about verification? Can we talk about substance? Can we talk about why I don’t trust your source? That conversation is better had after you understand why they trust theirs.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If I am highly convinced that I know something about this issue and I’m not going to change, is it worth having a conversation about that issue with my partner?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If I am highly convinced that I know something about this issue and I’m not going to change, is it worth having a conversation about that issue with my partner?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The best way for me to be heard on my convictions is to demonstrate to the other person that I can hear theirs. The trick is not to treat it as a strategy. I’m going to fake listen to them nonjudgmentally until they give me the time of day, and then I’m going to steamroll them and tell them how wrong they are. No. These conversations can be transformative. You are convicted; that’s great. It’s tough to be curious. It’s tough to be open, but again, how can anybody give you that gift if you can’t give it to anybody else? Also, there is nothing about receiving somebody’s opposing conviction that threatens yours. Nothing. There is no such thing as someone changing your mind with a flip of a switch unless your mind is already fertile ground to be changed on that thing. So if your convictions are really deep, what do you have to worry about? All you’re doing is listening to somebody else. And by the way, in the context of a relationship, you’re listening to someone you love. And we all know how wonderful it feels to be heard by someone we love.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The best way for me to be heard on my convictions is to demonstrate to the other person that I can hear theirs. The trick is not to treat it as a strategy. I’m going to fake listen to them nonjudgmentally until they give me the time of day, and then I’m going to steamroll them and tell them how wrong they are. No. These conversations can be transformative. You are convicted; that’s great. It’s tough to be curious. It’s tough to be open, but again, how can anybody give you that gift if you can’t give it to anybody else? Also, there is nothing about receiving somebody’s opposing conviction that threatens yours. Nothing. There is no such thing as someone changing your mind with a flip of a switch unless your mind is already fertile ground to be changed on that thing. So if your convictions are really deep, what do you have to worry about? All you’re doing is listening to somebody else. And by the way, in the context of a relationship, you’re listening to someone you love. And we all know how wonderful it feels to be heard by someone we love.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you have advice for folks if they want to have a conversation that they know is going to be hard? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you have advice for folks if they want to have a conversation that they know is going to be hard? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>One big thing is to understand that you don’t need to have hard conversations all at once, and that it’s nice when life flows in through your conversation. So there’s been some research that conversations in the car can be really productive. You’re not looking at each other like a showdown. You’re looking straight ahead. You’re next to each other. Also, if you’re sitting down, I like going to coffee shops and looking for seats that are next to each other but angled 45 degrees toward each other. This is amazing because it allows you to look at your partner and also look away to take a break. This helps calm your nervous system to get enough fuel for some of those hard moments. And then finally, you don’t have to have it out all at once. Come back to it later. Let what they said sit in your mind and let yourself process that. It’s incredible what that does. Sometimes if we try to do it all in one shot, we’ve got so many emotions that they run away with us. Let the pressure valve do its work.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>One big thing is to understand that you don’t need to have hard conversations all at once, and that it’s nice when life flows in through your conversation. So there’s been some research that conversations in the car can be really productive. You’re not looking at each other like a showdown. You’re looking straight ahead. You’re next to each other. Also, if you’re sitting down, I like going to coffee shops and looking for seats that are next to each other but angled 45 degrees toward each other. This is amazing because it allows you to look at your partner and also look away to take a break. This helps calm your nervous system to get enough fuel for some of those hard moments. And then finally, you don’t have to have it out all at once. Come back to it later. Let what they said sit in your mind and let yourself process that. It’s incredible what that does. Sometimes if we try to do it all in one shot, we’ve got so many emotions that they run away with us. Let the pressure valve do its work.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is staying curious in any way, shape, or form letting go of protecting, say, another group? I can imagine someone being convicted about a social justice issue or racial equality and that curiosity feels like they’re abandoning that group. Staying curious and being in conversation with someone who they see is against protecting that group could feel like that curiosity is dangerous.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is staying curious in any way, shape, or form letting go of protecting, say, another group? I can imagine someone being convicted about a social justice issue or racial equality and that curiosity feels like they’re abandoning that group. Staying curious and being in conversation with someone who they see is against protecting that group could feel like that curiosity is dangerous.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity because if it’s not you who talks to them and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who? Who’s going to do it? You have the relationship, you have the trust, you have opportunity. So I would actually flip that on its head. I think it is more dangerous not to be curious and not to engage someone who holds an idea you find to be harmful. There is so much harm in isolating ourselves into different communities that can’t talk to each other. That’s what’s ultimately the most harmful because if we’re not talking, we’re not persuading, we’re not reframing, we are not seeing things a different way. We’re just going to keep seeing things the way we like. And if we’re not listened to and can’t engage with people who are close to us and disagree with us, then we’re just going to continue to be heard by people who agree with us, which research shows radicalizes our opinions and makes us think that the whole world ought to believe what we believe. We all become more intolerant of different opinions.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity because if it’s not you who talks to them and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who? Who’s going to do it? You have the relationship, you have the trust, you have opportunity. So I would actually flip that on its head. I think it is more dangerous not to be curious and not to engage someone who holds an idea you find to be harmful. There is so much harm in isolating ourselves into different communities that can’t talk to each other. That’s what’s ultimately the most harmful because if we’re not talking, we’re not persuading, we’re not reframing, we are not seeing things a different way. We’re just going to keep seeing things the way we like. And if we’re not listened to and can’t engage with people who are close to us and disagree with us, then we’re just going to continue to be heard by people who agree with us, which research shows radicalizes our opinions and makes us think that the whole world ought to believe what we believe. We all become more intolerant of different opinions.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Research does show that we tend to exaggerate how extreme people on the other side actually are. Why do you think we have that tendency? Why do we do that?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Research does show that we tend to exaggerate how extreme people on the other side actually are. Why do you think we have that tendency? Why do we do that?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I like to say that whoever is underrepresented in your life will be overrepresented in your imagination. There is fear that has to do with this and stories that we hear in a very polarized media environment. A lot of the loudest voices and the most extreme stories are the ones that get told. So of course they take up a lot of space in our heads. Meanwhile, a lot of the conversations across divides that we witness on the news and in other places are high-octane showdowns meant to score points. You’ve probably seen the research too about how one side thinks the other is immoral and more vicious and crazy, stupid and evil. It’s completely unsurprising to me, given how we are trapped in this vicious cycle, that we are judging each other more while we’re engaging each other less. The research into the misperceptions, the perception gaps, the exaggerations is profound. Where are we getting our information? If we’re getting our information about people who disagree with us, only secondhand, there’s a good chance it’s a funhouse mirror over there. You have to make some space in your life to ask, “What am I missing?” It’s pretty tough to live so scared of everybody. It’s not fun. It’s not helping us. And it’s certainly not changing the world for the better.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I like to say that whoever is underrepresented in your life will be overrepresented in your imagination. There is fear that has to do with this and stories that we hear in a very polarized media environment. A lot of the loudest voices and the most extreme stories are the ones that get told. So of course they take up a lot of space in our heads. Meanwhile, a lot of the conversations across divides that we witness on the news and in other places are high-octane showdowns meant to score points. You’ve probably seen the research too about how one side thinks the other is immoral and more vicious and crazy, stupid and evil. It’s completely unsurprising to me, given how we are trapped in this vicious cycle, that we are judging each other more while we’re engaging each other less. The research into the misperceptions, the perception gaps, the exaggerations is profound. Where are we getting our information? If we’re getting our information about people who disagree with us, only secondhand, there’s a good chance it’s a funhouse mirror over there. You have to make some space in your life to ask, “What am I missing?” It’s pretty tough to live so scared of everybody. It’s not fun. It’s not helping us. And it’s certainly not changing the world for the better.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>You’ve interviewed a married couple, one is a committed liberal, one is committed conservative. What did you learn from them?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>You’ve interviewed a married couple, one is a committed liberal, one is committed conservative. What did you learn from them?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>This is Rick and Barbara. Rick is Republican, and Barbara is Democrat. In 2020, they went through a period where they could not talk to each other at all. Rick was going to vote for Trump. Barbara was just beside herself. It was too activating; it was too hard to be in the same room and have these conversations about these things that mattered so much to them. But they found another way. They wrote long letters to each other about how they felt and what was concerning them. That got them through that period, which I think was so cool. So they agreed that they would ask each other questions about what they believed. After a while, Barbara noticed that she was asking Rick a lot of questions, but Rick was not asking her a lot of questions. So, she confronted him and said, “Rick, what’s going on?” And Rick said, “Well, I already know why you believe what you believe.” She said, “Oh really? Prove it.” So they named an issue, and Rick goes, “Well, you believe that probably because of this and this and this.” And Barbara goes, “That’s right.” And then they went to the next issue. “Well, you believe it because of this.” And Barbara says, “That’s right!” They did this over and over again. The common reason turned out to mostly apply to Barbara, but Barbara said, “Rick, we’re married. I need you to hear those reasons from me. I need you to hear my personal reasons. Not the general trend or statistic. Can you please still ask me?” You still have to get it from each other. It’s these conversations that are the necessary piece. You need to be fully participating in those conversations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>This is Rick and Barbara. Rick is Republican, and Barbara is Democrat. In 2020, they went through a period where they could not talk to each other at all. Rick was going to vote for Trump. Barbara was just beside herself. It was too activating; it was too hard to be in the same room and have these conversations about these things that mattered so much to them. But they found another way. They wrote long letters to each other about how they felt and what was concerning them. That got them through that period, which I think was so cool. So they agreed that they would ask each other questions about what they believed. After a while, Barbara noticed that she was asking Rick a lot of questions, but Rick was not asking her a lot of questions. So, she confronted him and said, “Rick, what’s going on?” And Rick said, “Well, I already know why you believe what you believe.” She said, “Oh really? Prove it.” So they named an issue, and Rick goes, “Well, you believe that probably because of this and this and this.” And Barbara goes, “That’s right.” And then they went to the next issue. “Well, you believe it because of this.” And Barbara says, “That’s right!” They did this over and over again. The common reason turned out to mostly apply to Barbara, but Barbara said, “Rick, we’re married. I need you to hear those reasons from me. I need you to hear my personal reasons. Not the general trend or statistic. Can you please still ask me?” You still have to get it from each other. It’s these conversations that are the necessary piece. You need to be fully participating in those conversations.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If folks are not in a marriage, but they’re just dating, do you think people should filter for politics in this moment because things are so divided?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If folks are not in a marriage, but they’re just dating, do you think people should filter for politics in this moment because things are so divided?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I consider myself a curious person. I like the world to get bigger and not smaller, at least in some areas of my life. So the question is, do you want that too? Because it can make you grow. The contrast is a beautiful thing at a time when so many people are running away and avoiding friction.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I consider myself a curious person. I like the world to get bigger and not smaller, at least in some areas of my life. So the question is, do you want that too? Because it can make you grow. The contrast is a beautiful thing at a time when so many people are running away and avoiding friction.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And you might be compatible in many other ways, even if you’re not politically compatible. Running up to the midterms, it’s going to get hot. Do you have any advice for folks on how to navigate relationships with their friends, lover, or family that are on the other side of the aisle?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And you might be compatible in many other ways, even if you’re not politically compatible. Running up to the midterms, it’s going to get hot. Do you have any advice for folks on how to navigate relationships with their friends, lover, or family that are on the other side of the aisle?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you are surprised by something they say, then take that as an invitation. You already have the relationship. And then instead of, “Whoa, really? That’s terrible, that sucks.” Say, “Whoa, really? Tell me more about that. How’d you come to that?” How did you come to believe what you believe is the most powerful question you can ask? Not, why do you believe what you believe? Why do you believe what you believe puts people on trial. How did you come to believe what you believe — asks people to take you on a tour. Create and generate the kind of understanding that could be a countercultural thing against the partisan messaging, sloganeering, exaggerating, manipulating that happens every campaign season in this country.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you are surprised by something they say, then take that as an invitation. You already have the relationship. And then instead of, “Whoa, really? That’s terrible, that sucks.” Say, “Whoa, really? Tell me more about that. How’d you come to that?” How did you come to believe what you believe is the most powerful question you can ask? Not, why do you believe what you believe? Why do you believe what you believe puts people on trial. How did you come to believe what you believe — asks people to take you on a tour. Create and generate the kind of understanding that could be a countercultural thing against the partisan messaging, sloganeering, exaggerating, manipulating that happens every campaign season in this country.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>May we all get a little more curious in the next month or so. Thank you so much, Mónica. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>May we all get a little more curious in the next month or so. Thank you so much, Mónica. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Thank you. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Thank you. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Mónica Guzmán is a journalist and host of the podcast, “A Braver Way.” Inside Love is a new production of KQED, and we’d love to hear what you think. Our email is InsideLove@KQED.org. Our engineer is Katherine Monahan. Our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\">\u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, our series exploring what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Politics isn’t just pulling the country apart — it’s unsettling our most intimate relationships. Nearly half of Americans say they wouldn’t date someone who doesn’t share their political views. But what happens if you’re already in love, and politics becomes a fault line in your relationship? Can love make space for views you find impossible to accept?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity,” said Mónica Guzmán, host of the podcast “A Braver Way.” “Because if it’s not you who talks to that person, and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who’s going to do it?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>We’ll talk to Guzmán about how to stay curious even when you hate your lover’s politics — and how to coexist peacefully without surrendering your own convictions\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán,\u003c/strong> host, “\u003ca href=\"https://braverangels.org/abraverway/\">A Braver Way\u003c/a>” podcast; author, “I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times”\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Polarization is present in your own family. Your parents are enthusiastic Trump supporters. You are a liberal journalist from Seattle who voted for Joe Biden. Do you all avoid politics? Or how do you navigate those conversations?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Earlier on, it was a bit awkward. We didn’t know how to pick it up, but we’re a really unfiltered family. So as soon as we became citizens, because we’re Mexican immigrants, back in the year 2000, it became clear my parents were going to the right and me and my brother were going to the left. The volume at restaurants, when Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow came up, it just went up. We would just fill the car, front seat versus back seat. But it got really tense after the 2016 election. That’s when we wondered: is the heat from the friction between our perspectives going to burn something, or is it going to cook something? The lessons we learned, trying to keep things to a simmer, going through rupture and repair cycles, trying to be honest with each other even while we let the other person be honest with us, boy, that was hard, but it taught us a lot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you try to avoid certain topics or do you find that you can find common ground?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>These days we talk about it all. There really is not much that we’re not able to discuss. To give you an example, my mother was a pro-life activist who went to the march on Washington, and I am decidedly pro-choice. So, the conversations would often include tears, her not believing that her own daughter could think these things. But we’re also able to have the most constructive conversations on abortion. The common ground we found is lots of people on both sides of this issue want fewer unwanted pregnancies. Okay, what can we do as a culture and as a society? You can get to some pretty constructive, incredible nuances of these issues and understand that both of us care deeply about what’s going on in different ways.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I imagine you’re not living with your parents anymore. You’re not with them 24 hours a day, like you may be with a partner. So, do you think it’s different for those who are navigating this inside a romantic relationship?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Absolutely, when you are living with them all the time, everything changes. I’ve heard from couples where one of them comes into the room, and they’re watching Fox News, or they’re watching MSNBC, you’re already triggered by something. And then different partners will have different ideas about whether or not to talk about politics. The problem is if politics is deeply meaningful to one or both partners, not talking about politics is not talking about me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What is the goal of those conversations? Are you trying to sway someone who has a deeply different view? Is that even possible in this moment? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>In a committed romantic relationship, you want to stay connected. You want to love and support your partner. So the goal has to include understanding. The good thing about being in a relationship is you’ve already built up enough trust to be able to be honest about how you feel. A difference in ideas can be an amazing opportunity to strengthen your connection. But it’s also a big challenge because it’s difficult to stay curious when the other person believes something you find obscene, that you find wild. And because of your relationship, your expectations get in the way of that goal of understanding to maintain connection. You’re going to say, “How could my own husband, how could my own wife, how could my own partner believe something like this?” That’s all going to make you want to run away from a conversation that could be really fascinating if you go ahead and have it. It’s through those clashes and diverse opinions within the trust of a relationship that you can learn so much about them and so much about you. One of the most productive questions that you ask across a divide, especially if it’s a values-based difference, is not, “Why don’t you care about this thing that I care about?” But rather, “What do you care about more?”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I know a couple who’s navigating this. The guy is very right, and the woman is quite left. One thing that he says is so challenging is that their social media feeds are giving them very different facts. How does a couple have a responsible, empathetic conversation if they don’t share the same information on the topic? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The way we do that is we follow each other’s threads without judgment. I know how difficult that can be because if you think that your partner is trusting sources that are bogus, all you want to do is tell them they’re wrong, the source is wrong, and that you just can’t have the conversation unless they agree with you. You love your partner, and your partner trusts this source. Why? Get curious about that and let that curiosity become a nonjudgmental accompaniment, and ask your partner, “Can you walk me through the source you see? Can you show me the newsletter?” And then listen and watch and ask questions that allow them to be open with you. Do not criticize the source until you fully understand what it’s all about. And then afterward say, “Can I walk you through my source and tell you why I trust them?” So much about the sources that we believe is about what they call up in us. Some sources reflect people’s concerns better than others. I think that’s the key. So even if somebody who disagrees is like, “There’s nothing factual there. There’s a lot of sensationalism.” And often that’s true. It’s still worth noting when a source tugs on something that matters to somebody, and it makes them gravitate to those voices. We need to understand that and pick up on that. Once you do that and people feel heard across that divide, then you can start a more persuasive conversation. I have received your source nonjudgmentally. Maybe you’ve received mine. Now can we talk about verification? Can we talk about substance? Can we talk about why I don’t trust your source? That conversation is better had after you understand why they trust theirs.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If I am highly convinced that I know something about this issue and I’m not going to change, is it worth having a conversation about that issue with my partner?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>The best way for me to be heard on my convictions is to demonstrate to the other person that I can hear theirs. The trick is not to treat it as a strategy. I’m going to fake listen to them nonjudgmentally until they give me the time of day, and then I’m going to steamroll them and tell them how wrong they are. No. These conversations can be transformative. You are convicted; that’s great. It’s tough to be curious. It’s tough to be open, but again, how can anybody give you that gift if you can’t give it to anybody else? Also, there is nothing about receiving somebody’s opposing conviction that threatens yours. Nothing. There is no such thing as someone changing your mind with a flip of a switch unless your mind is already fertile ground to be changed on that thing. So if your convictions are really deep, what do you have to worry about? All you’re doing is listening to somebody else. And by the way, in the context of a relationship, you’re listening to someone you love. And we all know how wonderful it feels to be heard by someone we love.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Do you have advice for folks if they want to have a conversation that they know is going to be hard? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>One big thing is to understand that you don’t need to have hard conversations all at once, and that it’s nice when life flows in through your conversation. So there’s been some research that conversations in the car can be really productive. You’re not looking at each other like a showdown. You’re looking straight ahead. You’re next to each other. Also, if you’re sitting down, I like going to coffee shops and looking for seats that are next to each other but angled 45 degrees toward each other. This is amazing because it allows you to look at your partner and also look away to take a break. This helps calm your nervous system to get enough fuel for some of those hard moments. And then finally, you don’t have to have it out all at once. Come back to it later. Let what they said sit in your mind and let yourself process that. It’s incredible what that does. Sometimes if we try to do it all in one shot, we’ve got so many emotions that they run away with us. Let the pressure valve do its work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Is staying curious in any way, shape, or form letting go of protecting, say, another group? I can imagine someone being convicted about a social justice issue or racial equality and that curiosity feels like they’re abandoning that group. Staying curious and being in conversation with someone who they see is against protecting that group could feel like that curiosity is dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you have a connection to someone who believes something you think is harmful, you have an opportunity because if it’s not you who talks to them and potentially helps them see things a different way, then who? Who’s going to do it? You have the relationship, you have the trust, you have opportunity. So I would actually flip that on its head. I think it is more dangerous not to be curious and not to engage someone who holds an idea you find to be harmful. There is so much harm in isolating ourselves into different communities that can’t talk to each other. That’s what’s ultimately the most harmful because if we’re not talking, we’re not persuading, we’re not reframing, we are not seeing things a different way. We’re just going to keep seeing things the way we like. And if we’re not listened to and can’t engage with people who are close to us and disagree with us, then we’re just going to continue to be heard by people who agree with us, which research shows radicalizes our opinions and makes us think that the whole world ought to believe what we believe. We all become more intolerant of different opinions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Research does show that we tend to exaggerate how extreme people on the other side actually are. Why do you think we have that tendency? Why do we do that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I like to say that whoever is underrepresented in your life will be overrepresented in your imagination. There is fear that has to do with this and stories that we hear in a very polarized media environment. A lot of the loudest voices and the most extreme stories are the ones that get told. So of course they take up a lot of space in our heads. Meanwhile, a lot of the conversations across divides that we witness on the news and in other places are high-octane showdowns meant to score points. You’ve probably seen the research too about how one side thinks the other is immoral and more vicious and crazy, stupid and evil. It’s completely unsurprising to me, given how we are trapped in this vicious cycle, that we are judging each other more while we’re engaging each other less. The research into the misperceptions, the perception gaps, the exaggerations is profound. Where are we getting our information? If we’re getting our information about people who disagree with us, only secondhand, there’s a good chance it’s a funhouse mirror over there. You have to make some space in your life to ask, “What am I missing?” It’s pretty tough to live so scared of everybody. It’s not fun. It’s not helping us. And it’s certainly not changing the world for the better.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>You’ve interviewed a married couple, one is a committed liberal, one is committed conservative. What did you learn from them?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>This is Rick and Barbara. Rick is Republican, and Barbara is Democrat. In 2020, they went through a period where they could not talk to each other at all. Rick was going to vote for Trump. Barbara was just beside herself. It was too activating; it was too hard to be in the same room and have these conversations about these things that mattered so much to them. But they found another way. They wrote long letters to each other about how they felt and what was concerning them. That got them through that period, which I think was so cool. So they agreed that they would ask each other questions about what they believed. After a while, Barbara noticed that she was asking Rick a lot of questions, but Rick was not asking her a lot of questions. So, she confronted him and said, “Rick, what’s going on?” And Rick said, “Well, I already know why you believe what you believe.” She said, “Oh really? Prove it.” So they named an issue, and Rick goes, “Well, you believe that probably because of this and this and this.” And Barbara goes, “That’s right.” And then they went to the next issue. “Well, you believe it because of this.” And Barbara says, “That’s right!” They did this over and over again. The common reason turned out to mostly apply to Barbara, but Barbara said, “Rick, we’re married. I need you to hear those reasons from me. I need you to hear my personal reasons. Not the general trend or statistic. Can you please still ask me?” You still have to get it from each other. It’s these conversations that are the necessary piece. You need to be fully participating in those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>If folks are not in a marriage, but they’re just dating, do you think people should filter for politics in this moment because things are so divided?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>I consider myself a curious person. I like the world to get bigger and not smaller, at least in some areas of my life. So the question is, do you want that too? Because it can make you grow. The contrast is a beautiful thing at a time when so many people are running away and avoiding friction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>And you might be compatible in many other ways, even if you’re not politically compatible. Running up to the midterms, it’s going to get hot. Do you have any advice for folks on how to navigate relationships with their friends, lover, or family that are on the other side of the aisle?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>If you are surprised by something they say, then take that as an invitation. You already have the relationship. And then instead of, “Whoa, really? That’s terrible, that sucks.” Say, “Whoa, really? Tell me more about that. How’d you come to that?” How did you come to believe what you believe is the most powerful question you can ask? Not, why do you believe what you believe? Why do you believe what you believe puts people on trial. How did you come to believe what you believe — asks people to take you on a tour. Create and generate the kind of understanding that could be a countercultural thing against the partisan messaging, sloganeering, exaggerating, manipulating that happens every campaign season in this country.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>May we all get a little more curious in the next month or so. Thank you so much, Mónica. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mónica Guzmán: \u003c/strong>Thank you. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Mónica Guzmán is a journalist and host of the podcast, “A Braver Way.” Inside Love is a new production of KQED, and we’d love to hear what you think. Our email is InsideLove@KQED.org. Our engineer is Katherine Monahan. Our producers are Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. I’m Lesley McClurg. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript was lightly edited for clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
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},
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"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
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"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
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},
"city-arts": {
"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
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"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"order": 1
},
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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},
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"id": "freakonomics-radio",
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"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/381444908/podcast.xml"
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
"id": "how-i-built-this",
"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/3zxy",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
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"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC2275451163"
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
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"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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}
},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
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