A screenshot posted to a now-defunct Facebook group shows Jarrod Copeland (back, left) and Ian Rogers (back, right) at a barbecue that members of 3UP, a 'prepper group,' attended. Copeland and Rogers are in federal custody, accused of plotting a mass casualty event. 3UP claimed to be a social club not affiliated with any militia groups such as the Three Percenters. One attendee (front, right) wears a shirt with the Three Percenters symbol on it (13 stars around a Roman numeral III) and holds up just three fingers of his left hand. (Facebook)
Y
ears before law enforcement seized the contents of Ian Rogers’ safe, he earned a reputation as a talented mechanic and successful Napa Valley business owner. Rogers catered to an elite clientele of Jaguar, Land Rover and Rolls-Royce owners inside a garage off Napa’s main drag, a street spotted with boutiques and high-end bed and breakfasts.
The 47-year-old from Sonoma County, who appeared to have a passion for guns, according to Facebook posts where he dissed prominent Democrats, was also a loving husband and father who paid his bills on time, according to his family and friends.
In the fall of 2020, in the weeks after Joe Biden was declared the next president of the United States, Rogers sent an ominous text to someone he trusted, according to court records.
“Ok bro we need to hit the enemy in the mouth,” he messaged.
“Yeah so we punch Soros,” Rogers’ former employee and gym buddy, Jarrod Copeland, texted back, referring to billionaire investor George Soros.
Sponsored
Copeland, a Kentucky native, had been a mechanic at Rogers’ shop nearly a decade earlier.
“I think right now we attack democrats. They’re offices etc. Molotov cocktails and gasoline,” Rogers continued.
Copeland replied, “We need more people bro. Gonna be hard.”
The day after Thanksgiving, the chatter kindled a plan. Text messages contained in court records show the two men agreed to burn down the headquarters of the California Democratic Party in Sacramento, a building diagonal to the California Highway Patrol office tasked with protecting state lawmakers and daily visitors to the Capitol. Also nearby: a youth center, a gym and a popular bookstore.
Rogers: sent link to the address of the California Democratic Party office… Copeland: Right next to CHP Copeland: gotta be cautious Rogers: Only takes 3 minutes Rogers: Take a brick break a window pour gas in and light
The two men texted that they hoped hitting that particular target would send a message and ignite a movement. They viewed themselves as action-film heroes, referencing “The Expendables,” a popular movie franchise.
Rogers: Scare the whole country Rogers: Can you imagine cnn covering this haha ! Rogers: I’ll leave a envelope with our demands and intentions Rogers: Basically saying we declare war on the Democratic Party and all traitors to the republic. Copeland: That’s some expendables stuff. Rogers: We need to send a message Copeland: Yep I agree Rogers: Start a movement
On Jan. 8, 2021, the two acknowledged they might die carrying out their plan. Rogers asked Copeland if he was ready to leave his wife.
Rogers: What I’m talking about we probably will die unfortunately Copeland: She was crying yesterday and said to me “please don’t leave me I don’t know what to do without you” she was rubbing my back while I was watching... Copeland: She knows how i run and she knows I will put myself in harms way for what I believe in
It never came to that.
Rogers and Copeland were arrested in January and July of 2021, respectively, according to court records.
The two are charged in federal court with conspiracy to destroy by fire or explosive a building used in interstate commerce, with Copeland facing an additional charge of destruction of records in official proceedings for allegedly destroying evidence of his communication with Rogers.
The Napa County District Attorney’s Office also is prosecuting Rogers, for 28 felony counts over the numerous pipe bombs, and unregistered assault rifles authorities allegedly discovered inside his business, home and RV. He is also being charged with converting firearms into machine guns.
If the case goes to trial, Rogers faces a statutory maximum of 45 years in prison. Copeland faces a statutory maximum of 25 years, if convicted on all charges.
Their attorneys have been negotiating plea bargains over their alleged involvement for months.
Copeland has entered a no-contest plea and is awaiting sentencing, his attorney, John Ambrosio, said.
“He’s going to pay his debt and he’s taken responsibility,” Ambrosio added. “And we’re just waiting to see exactly what his punishment is going to be.”
Part of a surge in domestic extremism
Rogers and Copeland’s case is part of a surge in violent extremist activity the FBI is investigating in Northern California and throughout the nation.
Federal law defines domestic terrorism as “acts dangerous to human life” that violate state or federal criminal law, and appear to be an attempt to “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion” or “affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.”
Since the spring of 2020, the number of FBI investigations of suspected domestic extremists has more than doubled, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.
And just over a year after hundreds of people stormed the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in an attempt to stop the certification of the presidential election, the DOJ announced it was creating a special unit to address “the threat posed by domestic extremism.”
The Justice Department arrested and charged more than 725 people for their alleged involvement in the insurrection. KQED found that at least 40 were from California, including Evan Neumann, a Mill Valley resident charged with 14 counts, including assaulting Capitol police. Neumann fled to Europe, crossing through prewar Ukraine and successfully claiming asylum in Belarus, according to The Washington Post.
In February, a sergeant at Travis Air Force Base allegedly aligned with boogaloo adherents in Turlock, part of a loose-knit anti-government group trying to ignite a civil war, entered a guilty plea for gunning down a federal officer in Oakland during a 2020 protest over police violence. He's also accused of murdering a Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s deputy a week later.
And just last month, an Orange County man was arrested for allegedly threatening to bomb the headquarters of Merriam-Webster, the dictionary publisher, because he was upset by the company’s definition of “female.” According to The Washington Post, the man has allegedly been sending threatening messages since 2014, and the FBI interviewed him in 2015 and in October.
Amid growing concerns of potential extremist violence, the FBI and local police recently held a town hall in Modesto, urging residents to report possible domestic extremist threats.
United by rage
In an attempt to understand why two Bay Area men allegedly conspired to blow up a Sacramento building, KQED’s reporters visited the places where Rogers and Copeland worked, reviewed hundreds of pages of court documents and public records and interviewed more than a dozen people, including family members. Copeland and Rogers' attorneys refused requests to interview their clients, pending a final decision in their case.
What emerged is a portrait of friends united by rage who found community within an obscure anti-government militia. But one kept his affiliation quiet, while the other proudly displayed his allegiance with a bumper sticker on his truck. Together, they allegedly hatched a violent plan that they hoped would spark more violence.
Jon Blair, the assistant special agent in charge of counterterrorism at the FBI’s San Francisco field office, which investigated Rogers and Copeland, would not comment on the case, but said it’s not just the number of incidents that has gone up in California, but also the number of people involved and the severity of violence.
“There are actors who are predisposed towards these acts of violence, who are violating federal law and who are adhering to ideology,” Blair said. “They didn’t just come into existence after 2020, right? I do think they were a little more emboldened now because the rhetoric has become so pervasive and so loud in our culture.”
In the past, chapters of other groups — including III% United Patriots, III% Defense Militia, California Three Percenters, the original Three Percenters, Oath Keepers and West Coast Patriots — all have been active in California, according to the nonprofit.
Rogers and Copeland joined one of those, according to court records and screenshots obtained by KQED.
At the time of his arrest, Rogers told law enforcement he was a member of a “prepper group” called 3UP, a California offshoot of the Three Percenters, court filings show. Detectives also found a bumper sticker on one of Rogers’ vehicles of the III% symbol: three lines encircled by 13 stars.
The Three Percenters, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, represent a sub-ideology of the broader anti-government militia movement, and some California members were charged for participating in the January 6 insurrection. Three Percenters believe the unproven assertion that just 3% of colonists defeated the English during the American Revolution.
3UP claimed to be a social club not affiliated with any militia, according to Facebook screenshots. When a reporter reached one member in Milpitas by phone, he said “no comment” and hung up the phone. Calls to a number of other members were not immediately returned.
Copeland also was a member of 3UP, according to prosecutors. Screenshots of a now-defunct private Facebook group for Bay Area members showed Copeland as a member. A photograph posted to the page on Aug. 9, 2020, showed Rogers and Copeland with their wives at a barbecue that other members of 3UP attended, according to a screenshot shared with a KQED reporter.
But there’s nothing illegal about socializing with members of a so-called “prepper group,” purchasing tactical equipment and believing the government should be overthrown.
While the FBI’s strategy for combatting terrorism focuses on thwarting attacks before they happen — a concept the agency refers to as “left of boom” — the agency cannot interfere with people exercising their constitutional rights to voice their anger at elected officials and political parties.
And, Blair said, the agency does not investigate groups — only individuals who break the law.
“We don’t care what you believe, because we’re not allowed to care what you believe, no matter how reprehensible those beliefs may be,” said Blair. “It’s only if your beliefs or your ideology are motivating you to commit an act of violence — that’s when you would suddenly become of concern to us.”
Blair said the FBI relies on tips to identify potential threats. He thinks more people are reporting extreme rhetoric.
“There are people who are looking left and right and realizing that this is not necessarily the world we want to live in,” Blair surmised. “I think we are getting more reports from individuals who happen to be near people who are spewing the ideology and taking steps towards those violent acts, saying, ‘No, not here, not on my turf, not around me.’”
A 'one-man militia'
An anonymous tipster urged the FBI to look into Rogers’ behavior.
A KQED reporter was able to contact the individual who reported Rogers and confirm that the two had once been friends. According to the tipster, they shared a love for exotic cars and guns and had both voted for Donald Trump in 2016.
But, in 2019, Rogers began to threaten violence, often seething with rage and lashing out at people around him, he said.
The informer began documenting Rogers’ behavior. In September of 2020, he mailed an envelope to the San Francisco field office of the FBI. Inside was an SD card with screenshots of Rogers’ social media posts and a video of Rogers firing an AK-47 at a shooting range previously owned by Craig Bock, a prominent member of the Three Percenter movement, according to a lawsuit filed by Bock’s family after county officials revoked their lease for the shooting range, and to reporting by The Vallejo Sun.
The tipster also emailed the Napa County Sheriff’s Office, warning that Rogers was “deranged” and “a one-man militia.”
The Napa County Sheriff’s Office and the FBI jointly investigated Rogers, according to a declaration by a county detective filed as part of a motion opposing Rogers’ bail. In November of 2020, authorities learned that Rogers had sold his home in American Canyon, a city about 10 miles south of Napa, and was flush with cash, according to the motion.
On Jan. 15, just nine days after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, sheriff’s deputies detained Rogers at a traffic stop in downtown Napa and served him with search warrants for his home and auto-repair shop, according to court papers.
Inside a safe in Rogers’ office, law enforcement discovered five brick-sized pipe bombs, along with raw materials “that could be used to manufacture destructive devices, including black powder, pipes, endcaps,” according to a federal criminal complaint. There was “a Nazi flag and a Nazi dagger with markings from the Elite SS in Hitler’s army,” according to a separate court filing. The safe also contained a “White Privilege Card,” according to an FBI affidavit and the federal complaint against Rogers.
In a storage closet, deputies found, according to records, “numerous rifles, including some that were fully automatic and some that had been modified to operate as machine guns.”
They also found seven manuals on bomb making and survival tactics, including one called “The Anarchist Cookbook” and another titled “Homemade C-4,” an explosive material; approximately 15,000 rounds of ammunition; a homemade silencer; and “go bags” with body armor and bulletproof face shields.
Dozens more guns were found, unsecured, inside his home and RV. All told, officers collected 54 guns — including eight assault weapons considered illegal in California, according to the Napa County District Attorney. Rogers was arrested.
Rogers’ friends and family said he liked to pump iron, shoot semi-automatic rifles and drive fast cars. They also commented that he had used steroids to bulk up his 5’11” frame to 200 pounds in recent years.
Rogers has a tattoo on his upper left arm of an eagle that resembles the Nazi eagle, which he made no effort to hide. He is wearing camouflage fatigues and his hair is cropped.
Rogers learned how to fix cars in his father’s repair shop in Sonoma County when he was young. In 2005, he and his first wife, Julie Crisci, opened British Auto Repair in Napa. Rogers catered to wine country residents of diverse ethnic backgrounds who praised his mechanical skills and professionalism in dozens of online reviews.
But two witnesses told KQED they heard Rogers use racist slurs to refer to clients. Those individuals said he expressed rage toward people of other races.
A longtime Napa resident, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution, described one of Rogers’ tirades: “He was just stomping around, you know, ‘these mother****ing’ — you know, dropping N-bombs — ‘with their stupid’ — just like, like flexing, just flipping out. Other times you just hear him screaming about whatever — the Jews or, you know, Nancy Pelosi.”
He also said Rogers told people he named his German shepherd “Fritz” after Hitler’s personal dog handler, Fritz Tornow. Rogers also built a working MG 42, a machine gun that Allied troops nicknamed “Hitler’s Buzzsaw” because of the noise it made spewing 1,200-1,500 rounds of ammunition per minute.
“He’s a bad dude,” the Napa resident said. “He’s going to get what he deserves, hopefully. But, he’ll also be some sort of martyr for extremists.”
“I hate this town I’ll be happier away from the [N-word]. I’m sick of my stupid [racist slur for people of Korean descent] neighbors. I can’t forgive them for calling the cops on my numerous times over bullshit. Neighbors should have your back and they are backstabbers. Typical Asian assholes, they only care about themselvs and they’re families. I hate Asians they are rude and dishonest.”
A business acquaintance of Rogers said he never heard him use racist language. Cliff Marden, who sold auto-repair tools to Rogers for over a decade, described his client as opinionated, but not violent.
“Ian is not a terrorist by any means. He’s not a threat to the public,” Marden said when reached by phone. “He was a businessman and he was an outstanding person and individual of the community.”
Marden said Rogers got in trouble because he said the wrong things at the wrong time, but never would have acted on those threats.
“He had too much to lose to do something like that,” Marden said.
Rogers has a young son from his first marriage, and had recently remarried.
A woman who answered the door at Rogers’ last known address confirmed she had married him a year and a half earlier. Yuliia Rogers said she met her husband online and that he came to see her in her native Ukraine three times before they married.
“It was very wonderful,” she said, smiling as she reminisced.
Yuliia Rogers said she now reminds her husband of that time with a photograph “to keep him positive” while he’s incarcerated. She said her husband had been collecting guns for 20 years and that it was his “passion.”
She did not believe he was capable of violence and never feared for her own safety, she said.
“He never was mean or trying to do something bad to another person,” she said.
She said her husband was probably drinking when he wrote those texts to Copeland and was just venting his frustration over the presidential election.
“He never was going to do it,” Yuliia Rogers said. “It was maybe like little boys like, ‘I will,’ ‘I can do this,’ or ‘we can do this.’ But it was just like playing.”
While Rogers had a big personality and a wide circle of clients and friends, Copeland was friendly but quiet, according to people who talked to him.
“I had more meaningful conversations with Ian than Jarrod,” said Jag Rattu, owner of Audio House, a Napa car audio and window tint business, who often saw the two weight-lifting at a nearby gym.
Copeland, 38, started working as a mechanic at Rogers’ shop in 2011, according to his LinkedIn profile.
“They were like brothers. Like really close homies,” Rattu said. “They’d spot each other. I’m working [out] on a machine across from them, they’d be joking around, smiling.”
Rattu said he noticed that after Trump was elected, Rogers, whom he’s known since 2007, became more politically vocal on social media.
“Some people got way to the left and some people got way to the right,” Rattu said. “I started seeing hatred come through in his Facebook posts. He hated Gavin Newsom for some reason. I heard something about him wanting to beat up Newsom. But I thought it was all jokes.”
Rattu said that he was most surprised by the Nazi memorabilia and “white privilege card” investigators found in Rogers’ safe.
“I’m Indian,” Rattu said. “I get mistaken for Muslim. I’ve gotten racist attacks against me. After 9/11, I almost got jumped by these guys. I tell you, Ian never, never — and Jarrod, too — never brought up stuff like this. They treated me like any old guy.”
'My communication consists of fists and bullets'
A few years after meeting Rogers, Copeland enlisted in the U.S. Army. But his military career was cut short when he was arrested for desertion in May of 2014, not long after the start of basic training. In 2016, he was arrested for desertion a second time. He received an “other than honorable” discharge in lieu of court-martial the following month, according to court records.
Prosecutors allege that after Copeland was discharged from the Army, he joined an affiliate of the Three Percenter movement.
According to court documents, Copeland told Rogers that he was offered an officer position in the group, in either communications or security.
“But my communication consists of fists and bullets sooooo,” Copeland messaged.
Several months after his discharge from the Army, Copeland became general manager of Pep Boys in Vallejo. Justin Laquindanum, who told KQED he worked there at the same time, said Copeland was into guns and wore a close-cropped, militaristic haircut.
“He’s more into the [right to bear] arms — one of the topics he says is a definition of being American. A lot of soldier talk,” Laquindanum said, adding that Copeland helped him through a difficult period in his life.
Politics often came up in their conversations while working.
“He would ask me, ‘Hey, what do you think about this Black Lives Matter shit?’” Laquindanum said.
At times, Laquindanum felt Copeland was “testing” him, that his response would determine how much Copeland shared with him moving forward.
“I felt like he wanted to know, essentially, are you more Democratic or are you more Republican?” Laquindanum said.
Copeland aspired to be a cop, and he seemed agitated about being rejected by numerous police departments throughout the Bay Area and the California Highway Patrol, according to Laquindanum.
In 2019, Laquindanum said, he helped Copeland move into his in-laws’ three-bedroom house in north Vallejo. A family member who spoke to KQED, but then later declined to be quoted for fear of retribution, said Copeland spent long hours alone on the computer, and often made emotionally charged comments about politics or quoted Bible verses.
In the week after the storming of the Capitol, Rogers and Copeland agreed to wait until Inauguration Day before taking action.
“Let’s see what happens after the 20th we go to war,” Rogers messaged on Jan. 11, 2021.
The day after Rogers’ business and home were searched, a friend sent Copeland a link to a news article about his friend’s arrest.
“Do you think they look at our texts?” Copeland asked, according to court records. “Because we talk about some shit bro.”
Copeland immediately contacted one of the leaders of a militia he belonged to.
“Crap,” the man replied, urging Copeland to delete the evidence from his phone and switch to a new communications platform.
“Delete all. Jarrod this sucks, but we will get through it,” the man said.
When Copeland’s house was searched on Jan. 17, 2021, two days after Rogers’ arrest, the communication with Rogers was missing from his phone. Six months later, the FBI arrested Copeland in Sacramento, according to court documents.
Copeland’s cousin, Novice Doublin, speaking to KQED by phone from Mayfield, Kentucky, said the allegations didn’t sound like Copeland.
“Growing up, he wasn’t the one who was out hunting and fishing and trying to figure out how to take 30 firecrackers to a pop bottle and make it blow up, you know? That was the rest of us,” Doublin said. “As far as I can remember, he’s never even had a speeding ticket.”
“You meet different people at different points in your life,” Doublin continued. “Some good, some not so good. A lot of people talk shit. And, most people don’t pay it no attention. I don’t think Jarrod realized the severity behind the conversation.”
“He made a mistake,” Copeland’s brother, Wesley Copeland, told a reporter via Facebook message. “He would never hurt anyone.”
Kyle Harris, who told KQED he also worked with Copeland at Pep Boys, said that while he and Copeland talked about their shared conservative political views, Copeland never displayed an openness to extremism.
“It’s just hard to believe that he went from that to just an extremist like over, what — since I met him, a couple months?” Harris said. “It’s a good possibility he was suckered into doing something like that.”
However, nothing in the text exchanges included in court records indicates Rogers pressured or manipulated Copeland into agreeing to an act of violence.
In July of 2020, Copeland’s wife declined to be his court-appointed custodian at an initial bail hearing. Sheila Copeland later reconsidered, court records show, but after a judge reviewed transcripts of recorded phone calls between the two, he opted to keep Copeland behind bars.
“The Court has reviewed the transcripts of the Defendant's calls to his wife from the jail after the first bail hearing and is disturbed by the anger and volatility apparent in them,” U.S. Magistrate Judge Alex G. Tse wrote in his order. “It is clear to the Court from the Defendant’s statements made in the phone calls that he would present a danger to the community, and that no custodian or surety would have the moral suasion to ensure the necessary compliance with any conditions imposed.”
Multiple attempts to reach Copeland’s wife were unsuccessful.
If their federal case goes to trial, prosecutors will be faced with proving the men broke the law in the process of planning an attack that didn’t happen. Doing so could be difficult.
There are no specific federal crimes attached to domestic terrorism in the United States.
Federal prosecutors typically charge individuals planning to carry out homegrown, politically motivated violence with another crime they committed on their pathway toward launching an attack — like possession of illegal firearms or conspiracy — according to FBI Agent Blair.
“Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, after the Oklahoma City bombing, they were not charged with a federal domestic terrorism crime — because there isn't one,” Blair said. “They were charged with murder at the state level.”
The recent acquittal of two men charged with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is one example of how prosecutors can fail to prove conspiracy. In that case, defense attorneys argued the FBI entrapped the men.
Rogers and Copeland remain in federal custody.
Rogers’ shop closed last year, according to a May 12, 2021, report in the Napa Valley Register citing testimony from Crisci. At a hearing to determine whether Rogers posed a flight risk if allowed to post bail, his former wife and business partner told the judge that Rogers owed nearly $300,000 and had only enough cash to support his family for a few more months. Crisci did not return calls for comment.
“For people to say they did this because the president told them to do it or they were following orders — that has nothing to do with Mr. Rogers and who he is,” said Colin Cooper, Rogers’ attorney. “He’s accused of having essentially weapons that are deemed illegal, and he will pay a very serious penalty for that.”
Ambrosio said his client accepts responsibility, but distanced Copeland from those who participated in the 2021 insurrection.
“With all the Jan. 6 stuff that also happened, those people actually hopped on a bus or a plane or train and went to the Capitol. They actually trespassed onto federal property and took active steps to either protest or riot,” Ambrosio said. “But he’s a human being. I’ve known him for a number of years. I think he’s a good person. Now do we sit down and talk about politics? No, we don’t.”
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Murrow Award for investigative reporting and a Golden Mic Award from the RTNDA of Southern California.\r\n\r\nJulie began her career in journalism in 2000 as the deputy foreign editor for public radio's \u003cem>Marketplace, \u003c/em>while earning her master's degree in journalism from USC’s Annenberg School of Communication.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@SmallRadio2","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["author"]},{"site":"science","roles":["author"]}],"headData":{"title":"Julie Small | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/jsmall"},"ahall":{"type":"authors","id":"11490","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11490","found":true},"name":"Alex Hall","firstName":"Alex","lastName":"Hall","slug":"ahall","email":"ahall@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED Enterprise & Accountability Reporter","bio":"Alex Hall is KQED's Enterprise and Accountability Reporter. She previously covered the Central Valley for five years from KQED's bureau in Fresno. Before joining KQED, Alex was an investigative reporting fellow at Wisconsin Public Radio and the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism. She has also worked as a bilingual producer for NPR's investigative unit and freelance video producer for Reuters TV on the Latin America desk. She got her start in journalism in South America, where she worked as a radio producer and Spanish-English translator for CNN Chile. Her documentary and investigation into the series of deadly COVID-19 outbreaks at Foster Farms won a national Edward R. Murrow award and was named an Investigative Reporters & Editors award finalist. Alex's reporting for Reveal on the Wisconsin dairy industry's reliance on undocumented immigrant labor was made into a film, Los Lecheros, which won a regional Edward R. Murrow award for best news documentary.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@chalexhall","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Alex Hall | KQED","description":"KQED Enterprise & Accountability Reporter","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ahall"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11983846":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983846","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983846","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","publishDate":1713909559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"more on California prisons\" tag=\"cdcr\"]However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713910120,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":15,"wordCount":503},"headData":{"title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","description":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:59:19.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:08:40.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"WpOldSlug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-workers","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"more on California prisons ","tag":"cdcr"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_26658","news_616","news_1629","news_17725","news_27626"],"featImg":"news_11983401","label":"news"},"news_11983878":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983878","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983878","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","publishDate":1713969364,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Fresno’s Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713969364,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":4,"wordCount":109},"headData":{"title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","description":"High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline. Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","datePublished":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Morning Report","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/tcrarchive/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6905300993.mp3?updated=1713969415","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","authors":["236"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_21291"],"tags":["news_21998","news_21268"],"featImg":"news_11983879","label":"source_news_11983878"},"forum_2010101905491":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905491","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905491","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","publishDate":1713914182,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987997,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":112},"headData":{"title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","description":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:16:22.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:46:37.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7484057311.mp3?updated=1713987406","airdate":1713978000,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Erik Aadahl","bio":"sound designer; co-founder of the studio, E Squared - credits include \"Transformers,\" \"Godzilla,\" \"A Quiet Place,\" \"Argo,\" \"Kung Fu Panda,\" and \"The Creator\""}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","authors":["243"],"categories":["forum_165"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905498","label":"forum"},"news_11983768":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983768","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983768","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","publishDate":1713837137,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"cecil-williams\"]The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713978737,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":22,"wordCount":818},"headData":{"title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","description":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","datePublished":"2024-04-23T01:52:17.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T17:12:17.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"cecil-williams"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","authors":["237"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_29728","news_33981","news_856","news_3181"],"featImg":"news_11983781","label":"news"},"forum_2010101905485":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905485","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905485","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","publishDate":1713913384,"format":"audio","headTitle":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987560,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":126},"headData":{"title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","description":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:03:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:39:20.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5615044161.mp3?updated=1713987842","airdate":1713974400,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Khadeejah Khan","bio":"senior, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Nico Fischer","bio":"sophomore, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Rachel Stanek","bio":"English teacher of thirty years in the East Side Union High School District"},{"name":"Tomara Hall","bio":"special education teacher, San Jose Unified School District; Equity Coalition leader and community organizer"},{"name":"Mike Gatenby","bio":"teacher, East Side Union High School District"}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","authors":["11757"],"categories":["forum_165"],"tags":["forum_640"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905486","label":"forum"},"news_11821950":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11821950","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11821950","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","publishDate":1713907559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.[aside postID='news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832' label='Related Guides From KQED']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[hearken id=\"10483\" src=\"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713995948,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":61,"wordCount":2709},"headData":{"title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","description":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:25:59.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:59:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"News","sourceUrl":"http://kqed.org/news","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832","label":"Related Guides From KQED "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"hearken","attributes":{"named":{"id":"10483","src":"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","authors":["236"],"categories":["news_223","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_21077","news_32707","news_1386","news_19971","news_28067","news_18538","news_29029","news_28044","news_6631","news_28031","news_18","news_28041","news_29475","news_29198"],"featImg":"news_11947885","label":"source_news_11821950"},"news_11983850":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983850","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983850","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","publishDate":1713956456,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":18481,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052\" label=\"Related Stories\"]“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713912168,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":848},"headData":{"title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","description":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","datePublished":"2024-04-24T11:00:56.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:42:48.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Lynn La\u003cbr>CalMatters\u003c/br>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","authors":["byline_news_11983850"],"categories":["news_18540","news_8"],"tags":["news_32580","news_27626","news_28683","news_2998","news_3457","news_6387"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11983856","label":"news_18481"},"forum_2010101905488":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905488","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905488","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","title":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution","publishDate":1713993655,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The Office” is such a cultural mainstay, informing TV mockumentary trends, cringe humor and Gen Z artists like Billie Eilish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713993655,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":143},"headData":{"title":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution | KQED","description":"You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Rainn Wilson from ‘The Office’ on Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution","datePublished":"2024-04-24T21:20:55.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:20:55.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"airdate":1714064400,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Rainn Wilson","bio":"actor who played Dwight Schrute on the TV show, \"The Office.\" His most recent book is \"Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution.\""}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905488/rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>You’d be forgiven for associating Rainn Wilson primarily with Dwight Schrute, the overbearing, mansplaining geek on “The Office.” And in his bestselling book “Soul Boom” the three-time Emmy Award-nominated actor acknowledges the connection: “Why is the beet-farming, paper-selling, tangentially Amish man-baby with the giant forehead and short-sleeved mustard shirts writing about the meaning of life?” But then again, why wouldn’t he be curious? Wilson joins us to talk about his own journey with faith, why big philosophical questions make life worth living and why we need what he calls a “spiritual revolution.” And we’ll also hear why he thinks “The Office” is such a cultural mainstay, informing TV mockumentary trends, cringe humor and Gen Z artists like Billie Eilish.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905488/rainn-wilson-from-the-office-on-why-we-need-a-spiritual-revolution","authors":["243"],"categories":["forum_165"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905489","label":"forum"},"news_11983752":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983752","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983752","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","publishDate":1713832725,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218\" label=\"Related Stories\"]Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713834971,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":1003},"headData":{"title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","description":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","datePublished":"2024-04-23T00:38:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T01:16:11.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_457","news_8","news_248"],"tags":["news_2114","news_28642","news_27626","news_18659","news_421","news_28963","news_30933"],"featImg":"news_11983729","label":"news"},"news_11983830":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983830","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983830","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","publishDate":1713952841,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713982999,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":66,"wordCount":3374},"headData":{"title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","description":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","datePublished":"2024-04-24T10:00:41.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T18:23:19.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1324653751.mp3?updated=1713902542","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","authors":["8654","227","11898","11649"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_33812","news_17968","news_33982","news_353","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11922004","label":"news"},"news_11913965":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11913965","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11913965","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"plot-to-blow-up-democratic-headquarters-exposed-california-extremists-hiding-in-plain-sight","title":"Plot to Blow Up Democratic Headquarters Exposed California Extremists Hiding in Plain Sight","publishDate":1652698941,"format":"audio","headTitle":"The California Report | KQED News","labelTerm":{"term":72,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>[dropcap]Y[/dropcap]ears before law enforcement seized the contents of Ian Rogers’ safe, he earned a reputation as a talented mechanic and successful Napa Valley business owner. Rogers catered to an elite clientele of Jaguar, Land Rover and Rolls-Royce owners inside a garage off Napa’s main drag, a street spotted with boutiques and high-end bed and breakfasts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 47-year-old from Sonoma County, who appeared to have a passion for guns, according to Facebook posts where he dissed prominent Democrats, was also a loving husband and father who paid his bills on time, according to his family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of 2020, in the weeks after Joe Biden was declared the next president of the United States, Rogers sent an ominous text to someone he trusted, according to court records.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ok bro we need to hit the enemy in the mouth,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">he messaged\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Yeah so we punch Soros,” Rogers’ former employee and gym buddy, Jarrod Copeland, texted back, referring to billionaire investor George Soros.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland, a Kentucky native, had been a mechanic at Rogers’ shop nearly a decade earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think right now we attack democrats. They’re offices etc. Molotov cocktails and gasoline,” Rogers continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland replied, “We need more people bro. Gonna be hard.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The day after Thanksgiving, the chatter kindled a plan. \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">Text messages contained in court records\u003c/a> show the two men agreed to burn down the headquarters of the California Democratic Party in Sacramento, a building diagonal to the California Highway Patrol office tasked with protecting state lawmakers and daily visitors to the Capitol. Also nearby: a youth center, a gym and a popular bookstore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: sent link to the address of the California Democratic Party office…\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: Right next to CHP\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: gotta be cautious\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Only takes 3 minutes\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Take a brick break a window pour gas in and light\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>The two men texted that they hoped hitting that particular target would send a message and ignite a movement. They viewed themselves as action-film heroes, referencing “The Expendables,” a popular movie franchise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Scare the whole country\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Can you imagine cnn covering this haha !\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: I’ll leave a envelope with our demands and intentions\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Basically saying we declare war on the Democratic Party and all traitors to the republic.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: That’s some expendables stuff.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: We need to send a message\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: Yep I agree\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Start a movement\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>On Jan. 8, 2021, the two acknowledged they might die carrying out their plan. Rogers asked Copeland if he was ready to leave his wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: What I’m talking about we probably will die unfortunately\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: She was crying yesterday and said to me “please don’t leave me I don’t know what to do without you” she was rubbing my back while I was watching...\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: She knows how i run and she knows I will put myself in harms way for what I believe in\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>It never came to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland were arrested in January and July of 2021, respectively, according to court records.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two are charged in federal court with conspiracy to destroy by fire or explosive a building used in interstate commerce, with Copeland facing an additional charge of destruction of records in official proceedings for allegedly destroying evidence of his communication with Rogers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11913972\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11913972\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ.jpg\" alt=\"entrance of California Democratic Party headquarters\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1260\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-800x525.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-1020x669.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-160x105.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-1536x1008.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ian Rogers and Jarrod Copeland planned to burn down the California Democratic Party headquarters building in Sacramento in text messages in November 2020. \u003ccite>(Juan Pablo Vazquez-Enriquez/Google Maps)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Napa County District Attorney’s Office also is prosecuting Rogers, for 28 felony counts over the numerous pipe bombs, and unregistered assault rifles authorities allegedly discovered inside his business, home and RV. He is also being charged with converting firearms into machine guns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the case goes to trial, Rogers faces a statutory maximum of 45 years in prison. Copeland faces a statutory maximum of 25 years, if convicted on all charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their attorneys have been negotiating plea bargains over their alleged involvement for months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland has entered a no-contest plea and is awaiting sentencing, his attorney, John Ambrosio, said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s going to pay his debt and he’s taken responsibility,” Ambrosio added. “And we’re just waiting to see exactly what his punishment is going to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Part of a surge in domestic extremism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland’s case is part of a surge in violent extremist activity the FBI is investigating in Northern California and throughout the nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal law \u003ca href=\"https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2009-title18/html/USCODE-2009-title18-partI-chap113B-sec2331.htm\">defines domestic terrorism\u003c/a> as “acts dangerous to human life” that violate state or federal criminal law, and appear to be an attempt to “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion” or “affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the spring of 2020, the number of FBI investigations of suspected domestic extremists has more than doubled, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And just over a year after hundreds of people stormed the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in an attempt to stop the certification of the presidential election, the DOJ announced it was creating a special unit to address “the threat posed by domestic extremism.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department arrested and charged more than 725 people for their alleged involvement in the insurrection. KQED found that at least 40 were from California, including Evan Neumann, a Mill Valley resident charged with 14 counts, including assaulting Capitol police. Neumann fled to Europe, crossing through prewar Ukraine and successfully claiming asylum in Belarus, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/23/evan-neumann-belarus-capitol-riot-asylum-ukraine/\">according to The Washington Post\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11904864 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/06/Carrillo-van-oakland-1020x631.jpg']In February, a sergeant at Travis Air Force Base allegedly aligned with \u003ca href=\"https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/01/27/who-are-boogaloos-who-were-visible-capitol-and-later-rallies\">boogaloo\u003c/a> adherents in Turlock, part of a loose-knit anti-government group trying to ignite a civil war, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904864/ex-air-force-sergeant-pleads-guilty-to-killing-federal-guard-in-oakland-during-george-floyd-protests\">entered a guilty plea\u003c/a> for gunning down a federal officer in Oakland during a 2020 protest over police violence. He's also accused of murdering a Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s deputy a week later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And just last month, an Orange County man was arrested for allegedly threatening to bomb the headquarters of Merriam-Webster, the dictionary publisher, because he was upset by the company’s definition of “female.” According to The Washington Post, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/25/merriam-webster-gender-death-threats/\">the man has allegedly been sending threatening messages since 2014\u003c/a>, and the FBI interviewed him in 2015 and in October.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amid growing concerns of potential extremist violence, the FBI and local police \u003ca href=\"https://account.modbee.com/paywall/subscriber-only?resume=259694010&intcid=ab_archive\">recently held a town hall in Modesto\u003c/a>, urging residents to report possible domestic extremist threats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>United by rage\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In an attempt to understand why two Bay Area men allegedly conspired to blow up a Sacramento building, KQED’s reporters visited the places where Rogers and Copeland worked, reviewed hundreds of pages of court documents and public records and interviewed more than a dozen people, including family members. Copeland and Rogers' attorneys refused requests to interview their clients, pending a final decision in their case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What emerged is a portrait of friends united by rage who found community within an obscure anti-government militia. But one kept his affiliation quiet, while the other proudly displayed his allegiance with a bumper sticker on his truck. Together, they allegedly hatched a violent plan that they hoped would spark more violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jon Blair, the assistant special agent in charge of counterterrorism at the FBI’s San Francisco field office, which investigated Rogers and Copeland, would not comment on the case, but said it’s not just the number of incidents that has gone up in California, but also the number of people involved and the severity of violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are actors who are predisposed towards these acts of violence, who are violating federal law and who are adhering to ideology,” Blair said. “They didn’t just come into existence after 2020, right? I do think they were a little more emboldened now because the rhetoric has become so pervasive and so loud in our culture.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Jon Blair, FBI assistant special agent in charge of counterterrorism\"]'We are getting more reports from individuals who happen to be near people who are spewing the ideology and taking steps towards ... violent acts, saying, 'No, not here, not on my turf, not around me.'[/pullquote]The Southern Poverty Law Center, \u003ca href=\"https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map\">which tracks hate groups throughout the country\u003c/a>, has identified 45 currently active anti-government groups in California, including four militias.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past, chapters of other groups — including III% United Patriots, III% Defense Militia, California Three Percenters, the original Three Percenters, Oath Keepers and West Coast Patriots — all have been active in California, according to the nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland joined one of those, according to court records and screenshots obtained by KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time of his arrest, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21474115-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">Rogers told law enforcement\u003c/a> he was a member of a “prepper group” called 3UP, a California offshoot of the Three Percenters, court filings show. Detectives also found a bumper sticker on one of Rogers’ vehicles of the III% symbol: three lines encircled by 13 stars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Three Percenters, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, represent a sub-ideology of the broader anti-government militia movement, and some California members were \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/three-percenters-militia-members-charged-us-capitol-attack-2021-06-10/\">charged for participating in the January 6 insurrection\u003c/a>. Three Percenters believe the unproven assertion that just 3% of colonists defeated the English during the American Revolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>3UP claimed to be a social club not affiliated with any militia, according to Facebook screenshots. When a reporter reached one member in Milpitas by phone, he said “no comment” and hung up the phone. Calls to a number of other members were not immediately returned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland also was a member of 3UP, according to prosecutors. Screenshots of a now-defunct private Facebook group for Bay Area members showed Copeland as a member. A photograph posted to the page on Aug. 9, 2020, showed Rogers and Copeland with their wives at a barbecue that other members of 3UP attended, according to a screenshot shared with a KQED reporter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there’s nothing illegal about socializing with members of a so-called “prepper group,” purchasing tactical equipment and believing the government should be overthrown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the FBI’s strategy for combatting terrorism focuses on thwarting attacks before they happen — a concept the agency refers to as “left of boom” — the agency cannot interfere with people exercising their constitutional rights to voice their anger at elected officials and political parties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And, Blair said, the agency does not investigate groups — only individuals who break the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t care what you believe, because we’re not allowed to care what you believe, no matter how reprehensible those beliefs may be,” said Blair. “It’s only if your beliefs or your ideology are motivating you to commit an act of violence — that’s when you would suddenly become of concern to us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blair said the FBI relies on tips to identify potential threats. He thinks more people are reporting extreme rhetoric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are people who are looking left and right and realizing that this is not necessarily the world we want to live in,” Blair surmised. “I think we are getting more reports from individuals who happen to be near people who are spewing the ideology and taking steps towards those violent acts, saying, ‘No, not here, not on my turf, not around me.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A 'one-man militia'\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An anonymous tipster urged the FBI to look into Rogers’ behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A KQED reporter was able to contact the individual who reported Rogers and confirm that the two had once been friends. According to the tipster, they shared a love for exotic cars and guns and had both voted for Donald Trump in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, in 2019, Rogers began to threaten violence, often seething with rage and lashing out at people around him, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914068\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1125px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914068\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle.jpg\" alt=\"man wearing military fatigues and sunglasses outdoors smiles as he holds what appears to be an assault rifle\" width=\"1125\" height=\"941\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle.jpg 1125w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-800x669.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-1020x853.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-160x134.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1125px) 100vw, 1125px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This screenshot from Facebook of Ian Rogers holding a rifle was included on an SD card an informer provided to the FBI in September 2020. \u003ccite>(Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The informer began documenting Rogers’ behavior. In September of 2020, he mailed an envelope to the San Francisco field office of the FBI. Inside was an SD card with screenshots of Rogers’ social media posts and a video of Rogers firing an AK-47 at a shooting range previously owned by Craig Bock, a prominent member of the Three Percenter movement, according to a lawsuit filed by Bock’s family after county officials revoked their lease for the shooting range, and to \u003ca href=\"https://www.vallejosun.com/solano-county-gun-club-twin-sisters-three-percenters/\">reporting by The Vallejo Sun\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The tipster also emailed the Napa County Sheriff’s Office, warning that Rogers was “deranged” and “a one-man militia.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The following excerpt from the tipster’s email \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21474115-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">was contained in a Napa County Superior Court filing\u003c/a>:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014620-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">\u003cimg class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-11914074\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1638\" height=\"972\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM.png 1638w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-800x475.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-1020x605.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-160x95.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-1536x911.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1638px) 100vw, 1638px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Napa County Sheriff’s Office and the FBI jointly investigated Rogers, according to a declaration by a county detective filed as part of a motion opposing Rogers’ bail. In November of 2020, authorities learned that Rogers had sold his home in American Canyon, a city about 10 miles south of Napa, and was flush with cash, according to the motion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Jan. 15, just nine days after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, sheriff’s deputies detained Rogers at a traffic stop in downtown Napa and served him with search warrants for his home and auto-repair shop, according to court papers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside a safe in Rogers’ office, law enforcement discovered five brick-sized pipe bombs, along with raw materials “that could be used to manufacture destructive devices, including black powder, pipes, endcaps,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22012703-210126-usa-v-rogers-complaint\">according to a federal criminal complaint\u003c/a>. There was “a Nazi flag and a Nazi dagger with markings from the Elite SS in Hitler’s army,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22011350-210510-rogers-napa-da-motion-to-deny-bail\">according to a separate court filing\u003c/a>. The safe also contained a “White Privilege Card,” according to an FBI affidavit and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22012703-210126-usa-v-rogers-complaint\">federal complaint\u003c/a> against Rogers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914106\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914106\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"581\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard-160x116.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of the 'White Privilege Card' found in Ian Rogers' safe, included in the federal complaint against him. \u003ccite>(U.S. District Court)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In a storage closet, deputies found, according to records, “numerous rifles, including some that were fully automatic and some that had been modified to operate as machine guns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also found seven manuals on bomb making and survival tactics, including one called “The Anarchist Cookbook” and another titled “Homemade C-4,” an explosive material; approximately 15,000 rounds of ammunition; a homemade silencer; and “go bags” with body armor and bulletproof face shields.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dozens more guns were found, unsecured, inside his home and RV. All told, officers collected 54 guns — including eight assault weapons considered illegal in California, according to the Napa County District Attorney. Rogers was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers’ friends and family said he liked to pump iron, shoot semi-automatic rifles and drive fast cars. They also commented that he had used steroids to bulk up his 5’11” frame to 200 pounds in recent years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one \u003ca href=\"https://sfist.com/2021/07/16/napa-man-with-white-privilege-card-and-accomplice/\">Facebook photo that went viral after his arrest\u003c/a>, Rogers sits at the wheel of his DeLorean, the gull-wing door raised, his muscular arms bulging under a cutoff T-shirt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914001\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914001\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean.jpg\" alt=\"man wearing camo shirt with bare arms and visible Nazi-esque eagle tattoo sits at wheel of Delorean car with door open\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1289\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-800x537.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-1020x685.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-1536x1031.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ian Rogers sits at the wheel of his DeLorean in a Facebook photo that went viral after his arrest in 2021. The photo shows his tattoo resembling a Nazi eagle. \u003ccite>(Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rogers has a tattoo on his upper left arm of an eagle that resembles the Nazi eagle, which he made no effort to hide. He is wearing camouflage fatigues and his hair is cropped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers learned how to fix cars in his father’s repair shop in Sonoma County when he was young. In 2005, he and his first wife, Julie Crisci, opened British Auto Repair in Napa. Rogers catered to wine country residents of diverse ethnic backgrounds who praised his mechanical skills and professionalism in dozens of online reviews.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But two witnesses told KQED they heard Rogers use racist slurs to refer to clients. Those individuals said he expressed rage toward people of other races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A longtime Napa resident, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution, described one of Rogers’ tirades: “He was just stomping around, you know, ‘these mother****ing’ — you know, dropping N-bombs — ‘with their stupid’ — just like, like flexing, just flipping out. Other times you just hear him screaming about whatever — the Jews or, you know, Nancy Pelosi.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He also said Rogers told people he named his German shepherd “Fritz” after Hitler’s personal dog handler, Fritz Tornow. Rogers also built a working MG 42, a machine gun that Allied troops nicknamed “Hitler’s Buzzsaw” because of the noise it made spewing 1,200-1,500 rounds of ammunition per minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s a bad dude,” the Napa resident said. “He’s going to get what he deserves, hopefully. But, he’ll also be some sort of martyr for extremists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914113\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914113\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"504\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs-160x101.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The five pipe bombs seized at Rogers' auto repair shop 'were fully operational and could cause great bodily harm or injury,' according to a Napa County Sheriff's Office bomb technician in the federal complaint against Rogers. \u003ccite>(US District Court)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rogers also \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22011730-210120-rogers-crisci-texts-exhibit2\">used racist slurs to describe his former Asian American neighbors in text messages to Crisci\u003c/a> that were included in court filings. On Sept. 16, 2019, he wrote:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I hate this town I’ll be happier away from the [N-word]. I’m sick of my stupid [racist slur for people of Korean descent] neighbors. I can’t forgive them for calling the cops on my numerous times over bullshit. Neighbors should have your back and they are backstabbers. Typical Asian assholes, they only care about themselvs and they’re families. I hate Asians they are rude and dishonest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A business acquaintance of Rogers said he never heard him use racist language. Cliff Marden, who sold auto-repair tools to Rogers for over a decade, described his client as opinionated, but not violent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ian is not a terrorist by any means. He’s not a threat to the public,” Marden said when reached by phone. “He was a businessman and he was an outstanding person and individual of the community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marden said Rogers got in trouble because he said the wrong things at the wrong time, but never would have acted on those threats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He had too much to lose to do something like that,” Marden said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers has a young son from his first marriage, and had recently remarried.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A woman who answered the door at Rogers’ last known address confirmed she had married him a year and a half earlier. Yuliia Rogers said she met her husband online and that he came to see her in her native Ukraine three times before they married.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very wonderful,” she said, smiling as she reminisced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yuliia Rogers said she now reminds her husband of that time with a photograph “to keep him positive” while he’s incarcerated. She said her husband had been collecting guns for 20 years and that it was his “passion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She did not believe he was capable of violence and never feared for her own safety, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He never was mean or trying to do something bad to another person,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said her husband was probably drinking when he wrote those texts to Copeland and was just venting his frustration over the presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He never was going to do it,” Yuliia Rogers said. “It was maybe like little boys like, ‘I will,’ ‘I can do this,’ or ‘we can do this.’ But it was just like playing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.instagram.com/p/CbLrxYCP1Fa/\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Rogers had a big personality and a wide circle of clients and friends, Copeland was friendly but quiet, according to people who talked to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had more meaningful conversations with Ian than Jarrod,” said Jag Rattu, owner of Audio House, a Napa car audio and window tint business, who often saw the two weight-lifting at a nearby gym.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland, 38, started working as a mechanic at Rogers’ shop in 2011, according to his LinkedIn profile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were like brothers. Like really close homies,” Rattu said. “They’d spot each other. I’m working [out] on a machine across from them, they’d be joking around, smiling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rattu said he noticed that after Trump was elected, Rogers, whom he’s known since 2007, became more politically vocal on social media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Some people got way to the left and some people got way to the right,” Rattu said. “I started seeing hatred come through in his Facebook posts. He hated Gavin Newsom for some reason. I heard something about him wanting to beat up Newsom. But I thought it was all jokes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rattu said that he was most surprised by the Nazi memorabilia and “white privilege card” investigators found in Rogers’ safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m Indian,” Rattu said. “I get mistaken for Muslim. I’ve gotten racist attacks against me. After 9/11, I almost got jumped by these guys. I tell you, Ian never, never — and Jarrod, too — never brought up stuff like this. They treated me like any old guy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>'My communication consists of fists and bullets'\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few years after meeting Rogers, Copeland enlisted in the U.S. Army. But his military career was cut short when he was arrested for desertion in May of 2014, not long after the start of basic training. In 2016, he was arrested for desertion a second time. He received an “other than honorable” discharge in lieu of court-martial the following month, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">according to court records\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors allege that after Copeland was discharged from the Army, he joined an affiliate of the Three Percenter movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to court documents, Copeland told Rogers that he was offered an officer position in the group, in either communications or security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But my communication consists of fists and bullets sooooo,” Copeland messaged.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several months after his discharge from the Army, Copeland became general manager of Pep Boys in Vallejo. Justin Laquindanum, who told KQED he worked there at the same time, said Copeland was into guns and wore a close-cropped, militaristic haircut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s more into the [right to bear] arms — one of the topics he says is a definition of being American. A lot of soldier talk,” Laquindanum said, adding that Copeland helped him through a difficult period in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Politics often came up in their conversations while working.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He would ask me, ‘Hey, what do you think about this Black Lives Matter shit?’” Laquindanum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At times, Laquindanum felt Copeland was “testing” him, that his response would determine how much Copeland shared with him moving forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt like he wanted to know, essentially, are you more Democratic or are you more Republican?” Laquindanum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland aspired to be a cop, and he seemed agitated about being rejected by numerous police departments throughout the Bay Area and the California Highway Patrol, according to Laquindanum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, Laquindanum said, he helped Copeland move into his in-laws’ three-bedroom house in north Vallejo. A family member who spoke to KQED, but then later declined to be quoted for fear of retribution, said Copeland spent long hours alone on the computer, and often made emotionally charged comments about politics or quoted Bible verses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the week after the storming of the Capitol, Rogers and Copeland agreed to wait until Inauguration Day before taking action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Let’s see what happens after the 20th we go to war,” Rogers messaged on Jan. 11, 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Copy,” Copeland replied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside link1=\"https://www.npr.org/2022/03/23/1088205226/evan-neumann-jan-6-insurrection-suspect-refugee-belarus-asylum,Bay Area Capitol Insurrection Suspect Wanted by the FBI Granted Refugee Status in Belarus\" hero=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Neumann-1020x560.jpg\"]The day after Rogers’ business and home were searched, a friend sent Copeland a link to a news article about his friend’s arrest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Do you think they look at our texts?” Copeland asked, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">according to court records\u003c/a>. “Because we talk about some shit bro.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland immediately contacted one of the leaders of a militia he belonged to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Crap,” the man replied, urging Copeland to delete the evidence from his phone and switch to a new communications platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Delete all. Jarrod this sucks, but we will get through it,” the man said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Copeland’s house was searched on Jan. 17, 2021, two days after Rogers’ arrest, the communication with Rogers was missing from his phone. Six months later, the FBI arrested Copeland in Sacramento, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014788-motion-to-unseal-copeland-arrest-info-public\">according to court documents\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland’s cousin, Novice Doublin, speaking to KQED by phone from Mayfield, Kentucky, said the allegations didn’t sound like Copeland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Growing up, he wasn’t the one who was out hunting and fishing and trying to figure out how to take 30 firecrackers to a pop bottle and make it blow up, you know? That was the rest of us,” Doublin said. “As far as I can remember, he’s never even had a speeding ticket.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You meet different people at different points in your life,” Doublin continued. “Some good, some not so good. A lot of people talk shit. And, most people don’t pay it no attention. I don’t think Jarrod realized the severity behind the conversation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He made a mistake,” Copeland’s brother, Wesley Copeland, told a reporter via Facebook message. “He would never hurt anyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kyle Harris, who told KQED he also worked with Copeland at Pep Boys, said that while he and Copeland talked about their shared conservative political views, Copeland never displayed an openness to extremism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just hard to believe that he went from that to just an extremist like over, what — since I met him, a couple months?” Harris said. “It’s a good possibility he was suckered into doing something like that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, nothing in the text exchanges included in court records indicates Rogers pressured or manipulated Copeland into agreeing to an act of violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In July of 2020, Copeland’s wife declined to be his court-appointed custodian at an initial bail hearing. Sheila Copeland later reconsidered, court records show, but after a judge reviewed transcripts of recorded phone calls between the two, he opted to keep Copeland behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe src=\"https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fphoto.php%3Ffbid%3D10100850113931966%26set%3Da.660083400716%26type%3D3&show_text=false&width=500\" align=\"aligncenter\" width=\"600\" height=\"498\" style=\"border:none;overflow:hidden\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The Court has reviewed the transcripts of the Defendant's calls to his wife from the jail after the first bail hearing and is disturbed by the anger and volatility apparent in them,” U.S. Magistrate Judge Alex G. Tse \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21492306-copeland-order-detaining-the-defendant#document/p4/a2097114\">wrote in his order\u003c/a>. “It is clear to the Court from the Defendant’s statements made in the phone calls that he would present a danger to the community, and that no custodian or surety would have the moral suasion to ensure the necessary compliance with any conditions imposed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple attempts to reach Copeland’s wife were unsuccessful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If their federal case goes to trial, prosecutors will be faced with proving the men broke the law in the process of planning an attack that didn’t happen. Doing so could be difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are no specific federal crimes attached to domestic terrorism in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal prosecutors typically charge individuals planning to carry out homegrown, politically motivated violence with another crime they committed on their pathway toward launching an attack — like possession of illegal firearms or conspiracy — according to FBI Agent Blair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, after the Oklahoma City bombing, they were not charged with a federal domestic terrorism crime — because there isn't one,” Blair said. “They were charged with murder at the state level.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The recent acquittal of two men charged with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is one example of how prosecutors can fail to prove conspiracy. In that case, defense attorneys argued the FBI entrapped the men.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland remain in federal custody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers’ shop closed last year, according to a May 12, 2021, \u003ca href=\"https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/napa-county-judge-keeps-bail-at-1-5-million-in-bombs-illegal-firearms-case/article_cd74c5e5-91e6-5ba8-a3ee-b8238b5627a2.html\">report in the Napa Valley Register\u003c/a> citing testimony from Crisci. At a hearing to determine whether Rogers posed a flight risk if allowed to post bail, his former wife and business partner told the judge that Rogers owed nearly $300,000 and had only enough cash to support his family for a few more months. Crisci did not return calls for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For people to say they did this because the president told them to do it or they were following orders — that has nothing to do with Mr. Rogers and who he is,” said Colin Cooper, Rogers’ attorney. “He’s accused of having essentially weapons that are deemed illegal, and he will pay a very serious penalty for that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ambrosio said his client accepts responsibility, but distanced Copeland from those who participated in the 2021 insurrection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With all the Jan. 6 stuff that also happened, those people actually hopped on a bus or a plane or train and went to the Capitol. They actually trespassed onto federal property and took active steps to either protest or riot,” Ambrosio said. “But he’s a human being. I’ve known him for a number of years. I think he’s a good person. Now do we sit down and talk about politics? No, we don’t.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A look inside how two Bay Area men came to plot a mass casualty event.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1652825588,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":134,"wordCount":5158},"headData":{"title":"Plot to Blow Up Democratic Headquarters Exposed California Extremists Hiding in Plain Sight | KQED","description":"A look inside how two Bay Area men came to plot a mass casualty event.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Plot to Blow Up Democratic Headquarters Exposed California Extremists Hiding in Plain Sight","datePublished":"2022-05-16T11:02:21.000Z","dateModified":"2022-05-17T22:13:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"authorsData":[{"type":"authors","id":"11490","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11490","found":true},"name":"Alex Hall","firstName":"Alex","lastName":"Hall","slug":"ahall","email":"ahall@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED Enterprise & Accountability Reporter","bio":"Alex Hall is KQED's Enterprise and Accountability Reporter. She previously covered the Central Valley for five years from KQED's bureau in Fresno. Before joining KQED, Alex was an investigative reporting fellow at Wisconsin Public Radio and the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism. She has also worked as a bilingual producer for NPR's investigative unit and freelance video producer for Reuters TV on the Latin America desk. She got her start in journalism in South America, where she worked as a radio producer and Spanish-English translator for CNN Chile. Her documentary and investigation into the series of deadly COVID-19 outbreaks at Foster Farms won a national Edward R. Murrow award and was named an Investigative Reporters & Editors award finalist. Alex's reporting for Reveal on the Wisconsin dairy industry's reliance on undocumented immigrant labor was made into a film, Los Lecheros, which won a regional Edward R. Murrow award for best news documentary.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@chalexhall","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Alex Hall | KQED","description":"KQED Enterprise & Accountability Reporter","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/defcbeb88b0bf591ff9af41f22644051?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ahall"},{"type":"authors","id":"6625","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"6625","found":true},"name":"Julie Small","firstName":"Julie","lastName":"Small","slug":"jsmall","email":"jsmall@kqed.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"KQED Contributor","bio":"Julie Small reports on criminal justice and immigration.\r\n\r\nShe was part of a team at KQED awarded a regional 2019 Edward R. Murrow award for continuing coverage of the Trump Administration's family separation policy.\r\n\r\nThe Society for Professional Journalists recognized Julie's 2018 \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11636262/the-officer-tased-him-31-times-the-sheriff-called-his-death-an-accident\">reporting\u003c/a> on the San Joaquin County Sheriff's \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11634689/autopsy-doctors-sheriff-overrode-death-findings-to-protect-law-enforcement\">interference\u003c/a> in death investigations with an Excellence in Journalism Award for Ongoing Coverage.\r\n\r\nJulie's\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11039666/two-mentally-ill-inmates-died-one-month-in-santa-clara\"> reporting\u003c/a> with Lisa Pickoff-White on the treatment of mentally ill offenders in California jails earned a 2017 regional Edward R. Murrow Award for news reporting and an investigative reporting award from the SPJ of Northern California.\r\n\r\nBefore joining KQED, Julie covered government and politics in Sacramento for Southern California Public Radio (SCPR). Her 2010 \u003ca href=\"https://www.scpr.org/specials/prisonmedical/\">series\u003c/a> on lapses in California’s prison medical care also won a regional Edward R. Murrow Award for investigative reporting and a Golden Mic Award from the RTNDA of Southern California.\r\n\r\nJulie began her career in journalism in 2000 as the deputy foreign editor for public radio's \u003cem>Marketplace, \u003c/em>while earning her master's degree in journalism from USC’s Annenberg School of Communication.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"@SmallRadio2","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"stateofhealth","roles":["author"]},{"site":"science","roles":["author"]}],"headData":{"title":"Julie Small | KQED","description":"KQED Contributor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4baedf201468df97be97c2a9dd7585d0?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/jsmall"}],"imageData":{"ogImageSize":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/200809-IIIUP-BBQ-JarrodCopeland-IanRogers-AndSpouses-at-source-FB-post-1-1020x788.jpg","width":1020,"height":788,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"twImageSize":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/200809-IIIUP-BBQ-JarrodCopeland-IanRogers-AndSpouses-at-source-FB-post-1-1020x788.jpg","width":1020,"height":788,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"twitterCard":"summary_large_image"},"tagData":{"tags":["California","California Democratic Party","domestic terrorism","extremism","Far right extremism","FBI","featured-news","Napa","Napa County","politics","racism"]}},"disqusIdentifier":"11913965 https://ww2.kqed.org/news/?p=11913965","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2022/05/16/plot-to-blow-up-democratic-headquarters-exposed-california-extremists-hiding-in-plain-sight/","disqusTitle":"Plot to Blow Up Democratic Headquarters Exposed California Extremists Hiding in Plain Sight","audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-41c5-bcaf-aaef00f5a073/32d8be4d-8a6d-430f-a6b5-ae9700f71285/audio.mp3","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11913965/plot-to-blow-up-democratic-headquarters-exposed-california-extremists-hiding-in-plain-sight","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__dropcapShortcode__dropcap\">Y\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>ears before law enforcement seized the contents of Ian Rogers’ safe, he earned a reputation as a talented mechanic and successful Napa Valley business owner. Rogers catered to an elite clientele of Jaguar, Land Rover and Rolls-Royce owners inside a garage off Napa’s main drag, a street spotted with boutiques and high-end bed and breakfasts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 47-year-old from Sonoma County, who appeared to have a passion for guns, according to Facebook posts where he dissed prominent Democrats, was also a loving husband and father who paid his bills on time, according to his family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of 2020, in the weeks after Joe Biden was declared the next president of the United States, Rogers sent an ominous text to someone he trusted, according to court records.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ok bro we need to hit the enemy in the mouth,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">he messaged\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Yeah so we punch Soros,” Rogers’ former employee and gym buddy, Jarrod Copeland, texted back, referring to billionaire investor George Soros.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland, a Kentucky native, had been a mechanic at Rogers’ shop nearly a decade earlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think right now we attack democrats. They’re offices etc. Molotov cocktails and gasoline,” Rogers continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland replied, “We need more people bro. Gonna be hard.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The day after Thanksgiving, the chatter kindled a plan. \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">Text messages contained in court records\u003c/a> show the two men agreed to burn down the headquarters of the California Democratic Party in Sacramento, a building diagonal to the California Highway Patrol office tasked with protecting state lawmakers and daily visitors to the Capitol. Also nearby: a youth center, a gym and a popular bookstore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: sent link to the address of the California Democratic Party office…\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: Right next to CHP\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: gotta be cautious\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Only takes 3 minutes\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Take a brick break a window pour gas in and light\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>The two men texted that they hoped hitting that particular target would send a message and ignite a movement. They viewed themselves as action-film heroes, referencing “The Expendables,” a popular movie franchise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Scare the whole country\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Can you imagine cnn covering this haha !\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: I’ll leave a envelope with our demands and intentions\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Basically saying we declare war on the Democratic Party and all traitors to the republic.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: That’s some expendables stuff.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: We need to send a message\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: Yep I agree\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: Start a movement\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>On Jan. 8, 2021, the two acknowledged they might die carrying out their plan. Rogers asked Copeland if he was ready to leave his wife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rogers\u003c/strong>: What I’m talking about we probably will die unfortunately\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: She was crying yesterday and said to me “please don’t leave me I don’t know what to do without you” she was rubbing my back while I was watching...\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Copeland\u003c/strong>: She knows how i run and she knows I will put myself in harms way for what I believe in\u003c/p>\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>It never came to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland were arrested in January and July of 2021, respectively, according to court records.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two are charged in federal court with conspiracy to destroy by fire or explosive a building used in interstate commerce, with Copeland facing an additional charge of destruction of records in official proceedings for allegedly destroying evidence of his communication with Rogers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11913972\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11913972\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ.jpg\" alt=\"entrance of California Democratic Party headquarters\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1260\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-800x525.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-1020x669.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-160x105.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/CADemHQ-1536x1008.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ian Rogers and Jarrod Copeland planned to burn down the California Democratic Party headquarters building in Sacramento in text messages in November 2020. \u003ccite>(Juan Pablo Vazquez-Enriquez/Google Maps)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Napa County District Attorney’s Office also is prosecuting Rogers, for 28 felony counts over the numerous pipe bombs, and unregistered assault rifles authorities allegedly discovered inside his business, home and RV. He is also being charged with converting firearms into machine guns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If the case goes to trial, Rogers faces a statutory maximum of 45 years in prison. Copeland faces a statutory maximum of 25 years, if convicted on all charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their attorneys have been negotiating plea bargains over their alleged involvement for months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland has entered a no-contest plea and is awaiting sentencing, his attorney, John Ambrosio, said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s going to pay his debt and he’s taken responsibility,” Ambrosio added. “And we’re just waiting to see exactly what his punishment is going to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Part of a surge in domestic extremism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland’s case is part of a surge in violent extremist activity the FBI is investigating in Northern California and throughout the nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal law \u003ca href=\"https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2009-title18/html/USCODE-2009-title18-partI-chap113B-sec2331.htm\">defines domestic terrorism\u003c/a> as “acts dangerous to human life” that violate state or federal criminal law, and appear to be an attempt to “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion” or “affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the spring of 2020, the number of FBI investigations of suspected domestic extremists has more than doubled, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And just over a year after hundreds of people stormed the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in an attempt to stop the certification of the presidential election, the DOJ announced it was creating a special unit to address “the threat posed by domestic extremism.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Justice Department arrested and charged more than 725 people for their alleged involvement in the insurrection. KQED found that at least 40 were from California, including Evan Neumann, a Mill Valley resident charged with 14 counts, including assaulting Capitol police. Neumann fled to Europe, crossing through prewar Ukraine and successfully claiming asylum in Belarus, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/23/evan-neumann-belarus-capitol-riot-asylum-ukraine/\">according to The Washington Post\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11904864","hero":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/06/Carrillo-van-oakland-1020x631.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In February, a sergeant at Travis Air Force Base allegedly aligned with \u003ca href=\"https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/01/27/who-are-boogaloos-who-were-visible-capitol-and-later-rallies\">boogaloo\u003c/a> adherents in Turlock, part of a loose-knit anti-government group trying to ignite a civil war, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904864/ex-air-force-sergeant-pleads-guilty-to-killing-federal-guard-in-oakland-during-george-floyd-protests\">entered a guilty plea\u003c/a> for gunning down a federal officer in Oakland during a 2020 protest over police violence. He's also accused of murdering a Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s deputy a week later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And just last month, an Orange County man was arrested for allegedly threatening to bomb the headquarters of Merriam-Webster, the dictionary publisher, because he was upset by the company’s definition of “female.” According to The Washington Post, \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/04/25/merriam-webster-gender-death-threats/\">the man has allegedly been sending threatening messages since 2014\u003c/a>, and the FBI interviewed him in 2015 and in October.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amid growing concerns of potential extremist violence, the FBI and local police \u003ca href=\"https://account.modbee.com/paywall/subscriber-only?resume=259694010&intcid=ab_archive\">recently held a town hall in Modesto\u003c/a>, urging residents to report possible domestic extremist threats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>United by rage\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In an attempt to understand why two Bay Area men allegedly conspired to blow up a Sacramento building, KQED’s reporters visited the places where Rogers and Copeland worked, reviewed hundreds of pages of court documents and public records and interviewed more than a dozen people, including family members. Copeland and Rogers' attorneys refused requests to interview their clients, pending a final decision in their case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What emerged is a portrait of friends united by rage who found community within an obscure anti-government militia. But one kept his affiliation quiet, while the other proudly displayed his allegiance with a bumper sticker on his truck. Together, they allegedly hatched a violent plan that they hoped would spark more violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jon Blair, the assistant special agent in charge of counterterrorism at the FBI’s San Francisco field office, which investigated Rogers and Copeland, would not comment on the case, but said it’s not just the number of incidents that has gone up in California, but also the number of people involved and the severity of violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are actors who are predisposed towards these acts of violence, who are violating federal law and who are adhering to ideology,” Blair said. “They didn’t just come into existence after 2020, right? I do think they were a little more emboldened now because the rhetoric has become so pervasive and so loud in our culture.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"'We are getting more reports from individuals who happen to be near people who are spewing the ideology and taking steps towards ... violent acts, saying, 'No, not here, not on my turf, not around me.'","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"medium","align":"right","citation":"Jon Blair, FBI assistant special agent in charge of counterterrorism","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The Southern Poverty Law Center, \u003ca href=\"https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map\">which tracks hate groups throughout the country\u003c/a>, has identified 45 currently active anti-government groups in California, including four militias.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past, chapters of other groups — including III% United Patriots, III% Defense Militia, California Three Percenters, the original Three Percenters, Oath Keepers and West Coast Patriots — all have been active in California, according to the nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland joined one of those, according to court records and screenshots obtained by KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time of his arrest, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21474115-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">Rogers told law enforcement\u003c/a> he was a member of a “prepper group” called 3UP, a California offshoot of the Three Percenters, court filings show. Detectives also found a bumper sticker on one of Rogers’ vehicles of the III% symbol: three lines encircled by 13 stars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Three Percenters, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, represent a sub-ideology of the broader anti-government militia movement, and some California members were \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/three-percenters-militia-members-charged-us-capitol-attack-2021-06-10/\">charged for participating in the January 6 insurrection\u003c/a>. Three Percenters believe the unproven assertion that just 3% of colonists defeated the English during the American Revolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>3UP claimed to be a social club not affiliated with any militia, according to Facebook screenshots. When a reporter reached one member in Milpitas by phone, he said “no comment” and hung up the phone. Calls to a number of other members were not immediately returned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland also was a member of 3UP, according to prosecutors. Screenshots of a now-defunct private Facebook group for Bay Area members showed Copeland as a member. A photograph posted to the page on Aug. 9, 2020, showed Rogers and Copeland with their wives at a barbecue that other members of 3UP attended, according to a screenshot shared with a KQED reporter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there’s nothing illegal about socializing with members of a so-called “prepper group,” purchasing tactical equipment and believing the government should be overthrown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the FBI’s strategy for combatting terrorism focuses on thwarting attacks before they happen — a concept the agency refers to as “left of boom” — the agency cannot interfere with people exercising their constitutional rights to voice their anger at elected officials and political parties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And, Blair said, the agency does not investigate groups — only individuals who break the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t care what you believe, because we’re not allowed to care what you believe, no matter how reprehensible those beliefs may be,” said Blair. “It’s only if your beliefs or your ideology are motivating you to commit an act of violence — that’s when you would suddenly become of concern to us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blair said the FBI relies on tips to identify potential threats. He thinks more people are reporting extreme rhetoric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are people who are looking left and right and realizing that this is not necessarily the world we want to live in,” Blair surmised. “I think we are getting more reports from individuals who happen to be near people who are spewing the ideology and taking steps towards those violent acts, saying, ‘No, not here, not on my turf, not around me.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A 'one-man militia'\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An anonymous tipster urged the FBI to look into Rogers’ behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A KQED reporter was able to contact the individual who reported Rogers and confirm that the two had once been friends. According to the tipster, they shared a love for exotic cars and guns and had both voted for Donald Trump in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, in 2019, Rogers began to threaten violence, often seething with rage and lashing out at people around him, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914068\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1125px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914068\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle.jpg\" alt=\"man wearing military fatigues and sunglasses outdoors smiles as he holds what appears to be an assault rifle\" width=\"1125\" height=\"941\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle.jpg 1125w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-800x669.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-1020x853.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/IanRogers-with-rifle-160x134.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1125px) 100vw, 1125px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This screenshot from Facebook of Ian Rogers holding a rifle was included on an SD card an informer provided to the FBI in September 2020. \u003ccite>(Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The informer began documenting Rogers’ behavior. In September of 2020, he mailed an envelope to the San Francisco field office of the FBI. Inside was an SD card with screenshots of Rogers’ social media posts and a video of Rogers firing an AK-47 at a shooting range previously owned by Craig Bock, a prominent member of the Three Percenter movement, according to a lawsuit filed by Bock’s family after county officials revoked their lease for the shooting range, and to \u003ca href=\"https://www.vallejosun.com/solano-county-gun-club-twin-sisters-three-percenters/\">reporting by The Vallejo Sun\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The tipster also emailed the Napa County Sheriff’s Office, warning that Rogers was “deranged” and “a one-man militia.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The following excerpt from the tipster’s email \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21474115-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">was contained in a Napa County Superior Court filing\u003c/a>:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014620-rogers-motion-to-increase-bail-declaration\">\u003cimg class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-11914074\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1638\" height=\"972\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM.png 1638w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-800x475.png 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-1020x605.png 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-160x95.png 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-13-at-12.18.54-PM-1536x911.png 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1638px) 100vw, 1638px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Napa County Sheriff’s Office and the FBI jointly investigated Rogers, according to a declaration by a county detective filed as part of a motion opposing Rogers’ bail. In November of 2020, authorities learned that Rogers had sold his home in American Canyon, a city about 10 miles south of Napa, and was flush with cash, according to the motion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Jan. 15, just nine days after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, sheriff’s deputies detained Rogers at a traffic stop in downtown Napa and served him with search warrants for his home and auto-repair shop, according to court papers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside a safe in Rogers’ office, law enforcement discovered five brick-sized pipe bombs, along with raw materials “that could be used to manufacture destructive devices, including black powder, pipes, endcaps,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22012703-210126-usa-v-rogers-complaint\">according to a federal criminal complaint\u003c/a>. There was “a Nazi flag and a Nazi dagger with markings from the Elite SS in Hitler’s army,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22011350-210510-rogers-napa-da-motion-to-deny-bail\">according to a separate court filing\u003c/a>. The safe also contained a “White Privilege Card,” according to an FBI affidavit and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22012703-210126-usa-v-rogers-complaint\">federal complaint\u003c/a> against Rogers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914106\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914106\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"581\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/WhitePrivelegeCard-160x116.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of the 'White Privilege Card' found in Ian Rogers' safe, included in the federal complaint against him. \u003ccite>(U.S. District Court)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In a storage closet, deputies found, according to records, “numerous rifles, including some that were fully automatic and some that had been modified to operate as machine guns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also found seven manuals on bomb making and survival tactics, including one called “The Anarchist Cookbook” and another titled “Homemade C-4,” an explosive material; approximately 15,000 rounds of ammunition; a homemade silencer; and “go bags” with body armor and bulletproof face shields.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dozens more guns were found, unsecured, inside his home and RV. All told, officers collected 54 guns — including eight assault weapons considered illegal in California, according to the Napa County District Attorney. Rogers was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers’ friends and family said he liked to pump iron, shoot semi-automatic rifles and drive fast cars. They also commented that he had used steroids to bulk up his 5’11” frame to 200 pounds in recent years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one \u003ca href=\"https://sfist.com/2021/07/16/napa-man-with-white-privilege-card-and-accomplice/\">Facebook photo that went viral after his arrest\u003c/a>, Rogers sits at the wheel of his DeLorean, the gull-wing door raised, his muscular arms bulging under a cutoff T-shirt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914001\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914001\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean.jpg\" alt=\"man wearing camo shirt with bare arms and visible Nazi-esque eagle tattoo sits at wheel of Delorean car with door open\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1289\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean.jpg 1920w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-800x537.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-1020x685.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersDelorean-1536x1031.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ian Rogers sits at the wheel of his DeLorean in a Facebook photo that went viral after his arrest in 2021. The photo shows his tattoo resembling a Nazi eagle. \u003ccite>(Facebook)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rogers has a tattoo on his upper left arm of an eagle that resembles the Nazi eagle, which he made no effort to hide. He is wearing camouflage fatigues and his hair is cropped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers learned how to fix cars in his father’s repair shop in Sonoma County when he was young. In 2005, he and his first wife, Julie Crisci, opened British Auto Repair in Napa. Rogers catered to wine country residents of diverse ethnic backgrounds who praised his mechanical skills and professionalism in dozens of online reviews.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But two witnesses told KQED they heard Rogers use racist slurs to refer to clients. Those individuals said he expressed rage toward people of other races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A longtime Napa resident, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retribution, described one of Rogers’ tirades: “He was just stomping around, you know, ‘these mother****ing’ — you know, dropping N-bombs — ‘with their stupid’ — just like, like flexing, just flipping out. Other times you just hear him screaming about whatever — the Jews or, you know, Nancy Pelosi.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He also said Rogers told people he named his German shepherd “Fritz” after Hitler’s personal dog handler, Fritz Tornow. Rogers also built a working MG 42, a machine gun that Allied troops nicknamed “Hitler’s Buzzsaw” because of the noise it made spewing 1,200-1,500 rounds of ammunition per minute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s a bad dude,” the Napa resident said. “He’s going to get what he deserves, hopefully. But, he’ll also be some sort of martyr for extremists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11914113\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-full wp-image-11914113\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"504\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/RogersPipeBombs-160x101.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The five pipe bombs seized at Rogers' auto repair shop 'were fully operational and could cause great bodily harm or injury,' according to a Napa County Sheriff's Office bomb technician in the federal complaint against Rogers. \u003ccite>(US District Court)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Rogers also \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22011730-210120-rogers-crisci-texts-exhibit2\">used racist slurs to describe his former Asian American neighbors in text messages to Crisci\u003c/a> that were included in court filings. On Sept. 16, 2019, he wrote:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I hate this town I’ll be happier away from the [N-word]. I’m sick of my stupid [racist slur for people of Korean descent] neighbors. I can’t forgive them for calling the cops on my numerous times over bullshit. Neighbors should have your back and they are backstabbers. Typical Asian assholes, they only care about themselvs and they’re families. I hate Asians they are rude and dishonest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A business acquaintance of Rogers said he never heard him use racist language. Cliff Marden, who sold auto-repair tools to Rogers for over a decade, described his client as opinionated, but not violent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Ian is not a terrorist by any means. He’s not a threat to the public,” Marden said when reached by phone. “He was a businessman and he was an outstanding person and individual of the community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marden said Rogers got in trouble because he said the wrong things at the wrong time, but never would have acted on those threats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He had too much to lose to do something like that,” Marden said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers has a young son from his first marriage, and had recently remarried.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A woman who answered the door at Rogers’ last known address confirmed she had married him a year and a half earlier. Yuliia Rogers said she met her husband online and that he came to see her in her native Ukraine three times before they married.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very wonderful,” she said, smiling as she reminisced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yuliia Rogers said she now reminds her husband of that time with a photograph “to keep him positive” while he’s incarcerated. She said her husband had been collecting guns for 20 years and that it was his “passion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She did not believe he was capable of violence and never feared for her own safety, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He never was mean or trying to do something bad to another person,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said her husband was probably drinking when he wrote those texts to Copeland and was just venting his frustration over the presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He never was going to do it,” Yuliia Rogers said. “It was maybe like little boys like, ‘I will,’ ‘I can do this,’ or ‘we can do this.’ But it was just like playing.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"instagramLink","attributes":{"named":{"instagramId":"CbLrxYCP1Fa"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>While Rogers had a big personality and a wide circle of clients and friends, Copeland was friendly but quiet, according to people who talked to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had more meaningful conversations with Ian than Jarrod,” said Jag Rattu, owner of Audio House, a Napa car audio and window tint business, who often saw the two weight-lifting at a nearby gym.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland, 38, started working as a mechanic at Rogers’ shop in 2011, according to his LinkedIn profile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were like brothers. Like really close homies,” Rattu said. “They’d spot each other. I’m working [out] on a machine across from them, they’d be joking around, smiling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rattu said he noticed that after Trump was elected, Rogers, whom he’s known since 2007, became more politically vocal on social media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Some people got way to the left and some people got way to the right,” Rattu said. “I started seeing hatred come through in his Facebook posts. He hated Gavin Newsom for some reason. I heard something about him wanting to beat up Newsom. But I thought it was all jokes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rattu said that he was most surprised by the Nazi memorabilia and “white privilege card” investigators found in Rogers’ safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m Indian,” Rattu said. “I get mistaken for Muslim. I’ve gotten racist attacks against me. After 9/11, I almost got jumped by these guys. I tell you, Ian never, never — and Jarrod, too — never brought up stuff like this. They treated me like any old guy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>'My communication consists of fists and bullets'\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A few years after meeting Rogers, Copeland enlisted in the U.S. Army. But his military career was cut short when he was arrested for desertion in May of 2014, not long after the start of basic training. In 2016, he was arrested for desertion a second time. He received an “other than honorable” discharge in lieu of court-martial the following month, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">according to court records\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prosecutors allege that after Copeland was discharged from the Army, he joined an affiliate of the Three Percenter movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to court documents, Copeland told Rogers that he was offered an officer position in the group, in either communications or security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But my communication consists of fists and bullets sooooo,” Copeland messaged.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several months after his discharge from the Army, Copeland became general manager of Pep Boys in Vallejo. Justin Laquindanum, who told KQED he worked there at the same time, said Copeland was into guns and wore a close-cropped, militaristic haircut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s more into the [right to bear] arms — one of the topics he says is a definition of being American. A lot of soldier talk,” Laquindanum said, adding that Copeland helped him through a difficult period in his life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Politics often came up in their conversations while working.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He would ask me, ‘Hey, what do you think about this Black Lives Matter shit?’” Laquindanum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At times, Laquindanum felt Copeland was “testing” him, that his response would determine how much Copeland shared with him moving forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt like he wanted to know, essentially, are you more Democratic or are you more Republican?” Laquindanum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland aspired to be a cop, and he seemed agitated about being rejected by numerous police departments throughout the Bay Area and the California Highway Patrol, according to Laquindanum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2019, Laquindanum said, he helped Copeland move into his in-laws’ three-bedroom house in north Vallejo. A family member who spoke to KQED, but then later declined to be quoted for fear of retribution, said Copeland spent long hours alone on the computer, and often made emotionally charged comments about politics or quoted Bible verses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the week after the storming of the Capitol, Rogers and Copeland agreed to wait until Inauguration Day before taking action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Let’s see what happens after the 20th we go to war,” Rogers messaged on Jan. 11, 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Copy,” Copeland replied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"link1":"https://www.npr.org/2022/03/23/1088205226/evan-neumann-jan-6-insurrection-suspect-refugee-belarus-asylum,Bay Area Capitol Insurrection Suspect Wanted by the FBI Granted Refugee Status in Belarus","hero":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/05/Neumann-1020x560.jpg","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The day after Rogers’ business and home were searched, a friend sent Copeland a link to a news article about his friend’s arrest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Do you think they look at our texts?” Copeland asked, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014785-copeland-rogers-motion-to-detain-public\">according to court records\u003c/a>. “Because we talk about some shit bro.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland immediately contacted one of the leaders of a militia he belonged to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Crap,” the man replied, urging Copeland to delete the evidence from his phone and switch to a new communications platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Delete all. Jarrod this sucks, but we will get through it,” the man said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Copeland’s house was searched on Jan. 17, 2021, two days after Rogers’ arrest, the communication with Rogers was missing from his phone. Six months later, the FBI arrested Copeland in Sacramento, \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22014788-motion-to-unseal-copeland-arrest-info-public\">according to court documents\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Copeland’s cousin, Novice Doublin, speaking to KQED by phone from Mayfield, Kentucky, said the allegations didn’t sound like Copeland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Growing up, he wasn’t the one who was out hunting and fishing and trying to figure out how to take 30 firecrackers to a pop bottle and make it blow up, you know? That was the rest of us,” Doublin said. “As far as I can remember, he’s never even had a speeding ticket.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You meet different people at different points in your life,” Doublin continued. “Some good, some not so good. A lot of people talk shit. And, most people don’t pay it no attention. I don’t think Jarrod realized the severity behind the conversation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He made a mistake,” Copeland’s brother, Wesley Copeland, told a reporter via Facebook message. “He would never hurt anyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kyle Harris, who told KQED he also worked with Copeland at Pep Boys, said that while he and Copeland talked about their shared conservative political views, Copeland never displayed an openness to extremism.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just hard to believe that he went from that to just an extremist like over, what — since I met him, a couple months?” Harris said. “It’s a good possibility he was suckered into doing something like that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, nothing in the text exchanges included in court records indicates Rogers pressured or manipulated Copeland into agreeing to an act of violence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In July of 2020, Copeland’s wife declined to be his court-appointed custodian at an initial bail hearing. Sheila Copeland later reconsidered, court records show, but after a judge reviewed transcripts of recorded phone calls between the two, he opted to keep Copeland behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe src=\"https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fphoto.php%3Ffbid%3D10100850113931966%26set%3Da.660083400716%26type%3D3&show_text=false&width=500\" align=\"aligncenter\" width=\"600\" height=\"498\" style=\"border:none;overflow:hidden\" scrolling=\"no\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The Court has reviewed the transcripts of the Defendant's calls to his wife from the jail after the first bail hearing and is disturbed by the anger and volatility apparent in them,” U.S. Magistrate Judge Alex G. Tse \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21492306-copeland-order-detaining-the-defendant#document/p4/a2097114\">wrote in his order\u003c/a>. “It is clear to the Court from the Defendant’s statements made in the phone calls that he would present a danger to the community, and that no custodian or surety would have the moral suasion to ensure the necessary compliance with any conditions imposed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple attempts to reach Copeland’s wife were unsuccessful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If their federal case goes to trial, prosecutors will be faced with proving the men broke the law in the process of planning an attack that didn’t happen. Doing so could be difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are no specific federal crimes attached to domestic terrorism in the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal prosecutors typically charge individuals planning to carry out homegrown, politically motivated violence with another crime they committed on their pathway toward launching an attack — like possession of illegal firearms or conspiracy — according to FBI Agent Blair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, after the Oklahoma City bombing, they were not charged with a federal domestic terrorism crime — because there isn't one,” Blair said. “They were charged with murder at the state level.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The recent acquittal of two men charged with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is one example of how prosecutors can fail to prove conspiracy. In that case, defense attorneys argued the FBI entrapped the men.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers and Copeland remain in federal custody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rogers’ shop closed last year, according to a May 12, 2021, \u003ca href=\"https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/napa-county-judge-keeps-bail-at-1-5-million-in-bombs-illegal-firearms-case/article_cd74c5e5-91e6-5ba8-a3ee-b8238b5627a2.html\">report in the Napa Valley Register\u003c/a> citing testimony from Crisci. At a hearing to determine whether Rogers posed a flight risk if allowed to post bail, his former wife and business partner told the judge that Rogers owed nearly $300,000 and had only enough cash to support his family for a few more months. Crisci did not return calls for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For people to say they did this because the president told them to do it or they were following orders — that has nothing to do with Mr. Rogers and who he is,” said Colin Cooper, Rogers’ attorney. “He’s accused of having essentially weapons that are deemed illegal, and he will pay a very serious penalty for that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ambrosio said his client accepts responsibility, but distanced Copeland from those who participated in the 2021 insurrection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With all the Jan. 6 stuff that also happened, those people actually hopped on a bus or a plane or train and went to the Capitol. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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